Joe Rogan Experience #1469 - Adam Perry Lang

Joe Rogan 0:00 ... one. (smashes table) What's happening, brother? How are you?

Adam Perry Lang 0:03 Good to be here.

Joe Rogan 0:03 Good to have you.

Adam Perry Lang 0:04 What's happening?

Joe Rogan 0:04 Um, I have enjoyed your restaurant many times. This is my favorite steak restaurant in all of Los Angeles.

Adam Perry Lang 0:09 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:10 And, uh, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in here because, uh, this is a, uh, really crazy time for restaurants. And, um, I, I mean, that's basically... That, that's the gist of it.

Adam Perry Lang 0:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:22 This is a crazy time. I mean-

Adam Perry Lang 0:24 It's, it's bananas. It's absolutely crazy. I'm trying to just get a handle on it. It's just, uh, overwhelming. So, for me, it's just head down and cook, try to help people, you know, that are in need, and, uh, and then we'll figure it out later. That's-

Joe Rogan 0:37 Well, I know you've been doing a lot of cooking for first responders and for hospitals. And, like, what, what have you been doing with your time now that this is...

Adam Perry Lang 0:45 Well, it really first started where, um, basically, everything just... Everybody was just staring at each other and saying, "What, what is going on? What's happening?" And I had... I didn't lay off any of my employees and it's all happening. Everybody else is closing up shop and, you know, I'm just overwhelmed as a business owner. What am I gonna do? And I actually had my GM come up to me and, you know... Because I'm trying to figure it out. Everybody's asked, "What's gonna happen?" My GM came up to me and he says, "Hey, listen, you know, we're with you. Um, we know you didn't create the coronavirus. You know, you do what you have to do, and we know your heart's in the right place." And I was just like... I just, like, kind of just let out a breath and I'm like, "Okay, well, I appreciate you saying that." And then I was just head down, get down to business with it. And, uh, um, we had to cut back, um, 90% of the staff. And, uh, we were just like... Just cook. Um, didn't know who were gonna... Who was gonna buy it or anything. It was just crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:47 So we should just tell everybody. It's the, the steakhouse is called APL.

Adam Perry Lang 1:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50 And it's in, uh, LA in wha- what is that? Like, the theater district? What is that called? That, that area?

Adam Perry Lang 1:55 Yeah, it's in the heart of Hollywood, Hollywood and Vine.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Yeah, yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:57 And it's right, uh, next to the Pantages Theater.

Joe Rogan 1:59 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 1:59 Which we... And what's ironic was, it was literally when they closed down all the restaurants, it was the, gonna be the night of, uh, Hamilton premiering, which was a big deal for us as a business and, uh, you know, all of a sudden it's like it stops and, um-

Joe Rogan 2:12 Yeah, we, um... I went to your place right after we saw something. It was, uh... Oh, it was Frozen. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 2:21 Yeah. Okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:22 I have daughters.

Adam Perry Lang 2:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:24 Yeah, we went to see Frozen and that was the last time I was at your place. Um, it's, it's gotta be a very strange thing 'cause this has never happened before. And one of the things that we've talked about, uh, a lot on this podcast is what's so devastating about this is there's a lot of people that have lost, lost businesses in the past because markets changed and because maybe they didn't do what they could've done or work as hard as they could've worked. But for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars, they've been doing the best work they've ever been able to do, they- they're putting in the hours, they're showing up, they're putting out these, uh, amazing meals, and then because of nothing that's their fault (snaps fingers) it just gets shut off.

Adam Perry Lang 3:05 It just gets shut off. It's crazy, you know-

Joe Rogan 3:07 And without any real understanding of how long it's gonna take or when, when you're gonna... I mean, we just had a conversation. I was saying, "We should just talk about this on air," 'cause we were just talking in the green room.

Adam Perry Lang 3:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Like, there's n- no, no clear indication of when you'll be able to go back to work, uh, and, and serve food to the general public and what that's gonna look like.

Adam Perry Lang 3:27 I know. It's, it's, it's the unknown. Um, but how I'm investing my time, how a lot of other chef restaurateurs are investing their time is trying to serve takeout to the public, but also doing, um, charitable and things to provide for, for first line, you know, front line, you know, defense.

Joe Rogan 3:46 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 3:46 And one of the things is, is, you know, Jimmy Kimmel and I teamed up to, um... For every meal that we prepare, we donate a meal to St. Joseph's Center. So that was the first thing. But as for our, our attitude was, is like we wanna help people and let them know that they're cared about. And then the other thing is to really just keep, um, even just the five people working s- because we didn't even know if people were gonna order. So, um, we jumped into it like that and then these services such as, uh, uh, Frontline LA, which comes in and, um, brings... It's, it's like the glue between us and the hospitals. And we, we prepare meals for 150 meals at a time for the hospital workers.

Joe Rogan 4:30 And do you guys package them up and then have them delivered to the hospitals? Like-

Adam Perry Lang 4:33 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:34 You know?

Adam Perry Lang 4:34 I mean, so we'll just sit there. They'll say, "Hey, we have a need for this particular hospital, you know, um, Hollywood Presbyterian." "Okay, great, 150 people." We package up the meals and-

Joe Rogan 4:44 How do you do that? Do they order off a menu or do you just prepare-

Adam Perry Lang 4:48 No, we-

Joe Rogan 4:48 ... stuff that you think that they'll enjoy?

Adam Perry Lang 4:49 We prepare, um, healthy things, things that they would appreciate and then also sometimes I just serve comfort items. So, sometimes I'll do meatloaf, gravy, and mashed potatoes 'cause, you know, if they're just all healthy, sometimes they just need a little bit more of, like, you know, warmth and, like-

Joe Rogan 5:04 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 5:04 ... just kinda, like, pulling in a bit.

Joe Rogan 5:05 That's a weird word, comfort food, you know?

Adam Perry Lang 5:07 It is, but that's what's happening now.

Joe Rogan 5:08 It makes... But it works. Like, the comfort... Like, when you say macaroni and cheese, comfort food.

Adam Perry Lang 5:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:12 It is.

Adam Perry Lang 5:13 That's what people are gravitating towards.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 5:15 That's where my menu is right now. It's all comfort food and barbecue.

Joe Rogan 5:18 Really?

Adam Perry Lang 5:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:19 So do you, do you... Uh, is that because that's what people are asking for?

Adam Perry Lang 5:23 Well, that's my-

Joe Rogan 5:24 Probably cook steaks, right?

Adam Perry Lang 5:25 That's my read on the market. You know, I had experienced a similar thing where things shut down and, uh, people needed help and that was around, you know, during 9/11. And, you know, our attitude was, is like how can we help people? Those, you know, those in need. And, and really comfort food really kind of just blossomed out of that. So-

Joe Rogan 5:45 So, when you're doing... Right, so you're doing takeout as well.

Adam Perry Lang 5:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:49 And how does that work? Do they order online or do they call up? Like, how, how does that work?

Adam Perry Lang 5:53 Like, we prefer curbside, um, as opposed to just doing Postmates and Grubhub. You know, people can do that and so we'll get people to come deliver.

Joe Rogan 5:59 Yeah, let's get to that 'cause how does that work? Postmates and Grubhub, is that good for your business? Is that... Is it less good?... than people ordering directly from you? Like, how does that work?

Adam Perry Lang 6:11 Well, it's great for our business because it gives us a greater range and we really can't deliver. So it gives us an opportunity, so it's a whole another market. But, you know, they charge a backend fee on it. So we have to upcharge it a bit and, you know, for us, we'd prefer just to kind of sell directly to the customer curbside, which we're doing a good clip of too. It's probably about hi- half and half.

Joe Rogan 6:31 So, like, what ... If you had to guess, like, what's the capacity as, as far, as, like, for your business? As like full on wide open where people can come and sit down versus now? Like, how much has it deteriorated?

Adam Perry Lang 6:45 Oh, it's, it's maybe 10%, 15% of the, the business-

Joe Rogan 6:51 Wow.

Adam Perry Lang 6:51 ... compared to ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:53 And that's-

Adam Perry Lang 6:53 So that's why I'm just focusing on like ... I just gotta keep moving. That's how I'm emotionally getting through this thing and also keeping the business going, is just basically just cook for people that are in need, you know, focus on the hospitals and then ... And the neighborhood just right around us, so it's a tough spot.

Joe Rogan 7:11 And you have obviously have a lot of friends that are in the restaurant business.

Adam Perry Lang 7:14 Oh, yes.

Joe Rogan 7:14 And so what is-

Adam Perry Lang 7:15 They talk all the time.

Joe Rogan 7:16 What's the general f- feeling? Like, what is, uh, what's the, the, the temperature? Like how, how is everybody dealing with this?

Adam Perry Lang 7:25 Uh, you know, first of all, knowing that a good number of us are not gonna be around, um, because just even figuring out all the rules and the laws that are gonna happen around this thing are, are unfolding. They're just very hard to read and get a clear understanding of what's happening. So a lot of people just don't know the unknown. Um, you know, landlords, you know, we're deferring rent, but at the same time, you know, they're not accepting of that. So we're like on the hook and we don't even really know where we're gonna end up with it, even just the PPP loans. Um, uh, only-

Joe Rogan 7:58 What is PPP?

Adam Perry Lang 7:59 It's the Paycheck Protection Program and that's really a government funded, um, assistance to supply restaurants and all businesses. I think of all the loans given out, I think only 5% of all the loans given o- out were actually to restaurants. So, um, they gi- i- they give you a chunk of money. Essentially that covers eight weeks of payroll and also a portion of that for, uh, 20 ... That 75% has to be spent on payroll, it covers for eight weeks. And then the other 25% is for rent and utilities. So it's like an eight-week l- lifeline, so.

Joe Rogan 8:37 And so far, how long has it been now? We're looking at like six weeks of lockdown so far or something like that? Like what-

Adam Perry Lang 8:43 It feels like longer. It's gotta be a little bit longer. Like for me-

Joe Rogan 8:46 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 8:47 ... it feels. It, it probably is that. I don't even have a, a concept of time I'm working so hard. It's just me and four other people and two are in the front and two are with me in the kitchen. We're doing dishes, we're co- cooking, we're cleaning, we're doing everything. I mean, it's a great sense of, you know, what, you know, accomplishment. And like, I got a, uh, an email from a nurse thanking us for the healthy meal that we prepared for them and that makes it worth it. But, you know, uh, like for me, I'm actually like inspired and just kicking it into high gear. I'm not gonna like just wallow in it. I'm just gonna keep working, head down, do what I do, and just hope at the end of the day. At the end of the day, people have to eat. So the world's gonna be different, you know, probably not gonna be the same at all in terms of for my business. But what el- what choice do I have?

Joe Rogan 9:32 Right. You want one of these, Ben? Some-

Adam Perry Lang 9:33 Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Kill Cliff CBD drink. Delicious.

Adam Perry Lang 9:36 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:36 There you go.

Adam Perry Lang 9:37 Thanks. (can pops)

Joe Rogan 9:39 Sorry for people listening to me slurp.

Adam Perry Lang 9:41 I like that.

Joe Rogan 9:42 Um, so when you're operating at 10% capacity, obviously this is not sustainable. 10% of your business is not sustainable.

Adam Perry Lang 9:52 That's right.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Just because operating costs and all the above. And then you're, you're obviously in a very high profile area, which must be extraordinary rent too.

Adam Perry Lang 10:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Um-

Adam Perry Lang 10:03 We're just not paying the rent, you know. We're just pushing it off. We can't. We don't have the money for it, so we'll have to work it out. That's-

Joe Rogan 10:09 You look very stressed out. I don't see ... I've never seen you like this.

Adam Perry Lang 10:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:12 Every time I've seen you-

Adam Perry Lang 10:12 I should just like relax.

Joe Rogan 10:13 ... you're s- that's you right there with a big smile.

Adam Perry Lang 10:15 Yeah. All right.

Joe Rogan 10:15 Whenever I see you at your restaurant, it's always smiling. I, I found out about your restaurant online.

Adam Perry Lang 10:19 It's just I don't have the answers, you know. It's just, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 10:23 I found out about your restaurant online. I was just googling new places to go for dinner and, uh, I don't know, it's like, um, maybe a couple years ago. And, uh, I was googling steakhouses and then I saw that you specialize in dry aged steaks and I, I had a steak that you cooked once that was more than a year dry aged.

Adam Perry Lang 10:43 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Which is so ... It's-

Adam Perry Lang 10:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:45 It was delicious.

Adam Perry Lang 10:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:46 But it was really weird. I mean-

Adam Perry Lang 10:47 It's weird.

Joe Rogan 10:48 (laughs) It doesn't taste-

Adam Perry Lang 10:49 It's different.

Joe Rogan 10:50 ... anything like a regular steak.

Adam Perry Lang 10:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:52 It tastes like, um, boy, it's like a different animal.

Adam Perry Lang 10:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:56 It's like you're eating something, you know, some exotic animal.

Adam Perry Lang 10:59 And I, that's what I like to do. I mean, you know, more aged doesn't necessarily mean better.

Joe Rogan 11:04 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 11:04 But, you know, it's just different and that's, you know, for me as a chef, you know, I call my dry age room an environmental chamber.

Joe Rogan 11:12 I think that's a ... Uh, yeah, there's a picture on Instagram of me and, uh, Adam in the m- the basement, that fucking-

Adam Perry Lang 11:19 Meat locker. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:20 ... weird meat room-

Adam Perry Lang 11:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:21 ... that you've got and, um, it's, it's for people that have never been to a dry aging room, it's very odd. There's fans blowing around, everything's a very specific temperature. You got all these different things labeled as far as like what date it was put in there and for no one ... For people who haven't seen dry aging, it's very odd too because you're like, "W- Hey, what is wrong with that meat?"

Adam Perry Lang 11:43 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 11:44 The outside crust of it, you got the ph- here's a photo of it. Folks, you can see it in the background of the, um ... It's not working? You gotta technically ... There it is.

Adam Perry Lang 11:57 Okay.

Joe Rogan 11:57 So for folks, you could see it in the background, the meat has like a black crust to it and then you slice that crust off. What do you do with the crust?

Adam Perry Lang 12:09 Get rid of it.

Joe Rogan 12:09 But is it edible?

Adam Perry Lang 12:11 Mm, it's not enjoyable. I mean-

Joe Rogan 12:13 What about for dogs?

Adam Perry Lang 12:15 ... I wouldn't give something a dog I wouldn't eat myself. So-

Joe Rogan 12:17 Wow.

Adam Perry Lang 12:18 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 12:18 You even eat dog food?

Adam Perry Lang 12:19 What's that?

Joe Rogan 12:20 Do you eat dog food?

Adam Perry Lang 12:20 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:21 But you feed your dog dog food?

Adam Perry Lang 12:22 I don't have a dog. I wish I did-

Joe Rogan 12:24 Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 12:24 ... to be honest with you, but-

Joe Rogan 12:24 I have a dog and he eats dog food. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 12:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:27 I love him to death. But he eats, uh, he actually eats ground elk-

Adam Perry Lang 12:30 But-

Joe Rogan 12:31 ... mixed in with, uh, reg- regular dog food.

Adam Perry Lang 12:33 Even that, I mean, it gets a white ash, which is almost like a, I call it a, there's a friendly oxidation I refer to it in the whole process. Okay?

Joe Rogan 12:42 Is that white ash like the same as you get on outside of salami?

Adam Perry Lang 12:46 It's like that. It's part of it. There, it's a mold.

Joe Rogan 12:49 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 12:49 And, um, the whole concept behind dry aging, it's based on three things. It's, um, air velocity, temperature, and, um, humidity.

Joe Rogan 12:56 Air velocity?

Adam Perry Lang 12:57 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:57 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 12:58 And it's really important. I, I like to, you know, uh, when I teach people about dry aging, it's like, if you were on a beach in Jamaica and there was no wind and you just start getting sweat and you're just uncomfortable, um, but then if trade winds went through, it would've, at the same temperature, it would evaporate the water off your skin.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 13:17 So what we're trying to do is, we're trying to, at the right ratio, evaporate the water off the surface so it doesn't get like a smelly, stinky, bad mold-

Joe Rogan 13:28 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 13:28 ... and, um, dehydrate it slowly. What it does is, it concentrates the flavor. It transforms the amino acids into a whole different compound and changes the flavor altogether. And then also, enzymes within the meat, through the pro- process of rigor mortis, it breaks down so it becomes more tender. So you get flavor enhancement, you get tenderization, and it just, it just blows it away.

Joe Rogan 13:52 So what does it do to the amino acids?

Adam Perry Lang 13:54 It transforms it into a whole nother compound. It's like a flavor. It's, it's like, uh, when we talk... Have you ever heard of like concept of like Maillard reaction?

Joe Rogan 14:02 Yes. But I don't know what it means anymore. I've, I've, I've read the expression-

Adam Perry Lang 14:06 Well-

Joe Rogan 14:06 ... but I forgot what it means.

Adam Perry Lang 14:06 Yeah. The Maillard reaction is basically like when you're cooking something, um, what ends up happening-

Joe Rogan 14:10 Spell it.

Adam Perry Lang 14:11 Um, oh God, I'm the worst spelling.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Is it mylar?

Adam Perry Lang 14:13 No. M-A-I-L-L-A-R-D.

Joe Rogan 14:17 Right. Mai- Maillard. Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 14:19 Maillard. Okay. I said my-ard. Okay.

Joe Rogan 14:21 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 14:21 Um, that's what I know is. Um, so, you know, when you're, ever you're browning or you're doing different things at different rates, amino acids transform into different things and you get different flavor compounds, and that's really what happens, you know, with meat. You know, so if I dry age, you have to handle dry age meat a lot differently. You can't go out and it's like, "Okay, I'm gonna slow cook this once it's dry aged." Because then that just, it develops a really nasty, kind of like funky flavor. But if you cook it under high heat, like really aggressive, like that's why you have steakhouse broilers. There's something about that browning of that dry aged meat that transforms, that just like awakens your senses, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:58 That's interesting. So you don't slow cook dry aged meat?

Adam Perry Lang 15:00 No, I don't.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 15:01 It gets livery. It's almost like a livery. So if-

Joe Rogan 15:04 Really?

Adam Perry Lang 15:04 Yeah. I don't even... If anybody wants dry age above medium, I try to talk them out. "I'll cook it any way you want." But if you start cooking it past medium, it's almost like, you know, uh, seeing someone like transform. Like, it, it just ages, like when you cook it a long time, it just ages and just turns into something else. It's just, it's just nasty.

Joe Rogan 15:25 Those people who want well done steak are offensive. You should go-

Adam Perry Lang 15:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:29 ... and eat Burger King, you monsters.

Adam Perry Lang 15:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:32 What's wrong with you?

Adam Perry Lang 15:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:33 When I hear p- when I go to dinner with someone and they order well done steak, I just cringe. I'm like, "Who am I eating?"

Adam Perry Lang 15:39 Yeah. Some... It's a cultural thing I notice too-

Joe Rogan 15:41 (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 15:41 ... with some people. Like, they just wanna cook. But if, if they want a well done steak, then I recommend the wet aged steak to do well done, because, you know-

Joe Rogan 15:47 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 15:47 ... at least you know you have a fighting chance for some type of flavor that would be appealing.

Joe Rogan 15:51 But it's weird. Like, why are you eating steak?

Adam Perry Lang 15:53 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 15:55 You know?

Adam Perry Lang 15:55 It's true. It's true.

Joe Rogan 15:57 Like, it's just-

Adam Perry Lang 15:58 That's for me, you know? I, I-

Joe Rogan 15:59 For everybody.

Adam Perry Lang 16:01 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:01 It's criminal.

Adam Perry Lang 16:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 It's a criminal act. You're wasting a piece of meat.

Adam Perry Lang 16:04 It's true. I kind of like, I kind of look the other way. I mean, it's-

Joe Rogan 16:07 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 16:07 ... it's, it's catchable.

Joe Rogan 16:07 What do you want, ketchup with that?

Adam Perry Lang 16:08 Yeah. It's, it's painful for me.

Joe Rogan 16:09 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 16:10 You know, it's painful.

Joe Rogan 16:11 I mean, some people grew up eating well done steak, and that's how they like it. "Joey Diaz eats medium well." "Medium well."

Adam Perry Lang 16:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:18 I'm like, "What are you doing?"

Adam Perry Lang 16:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:20 Why? It just doesn't taste as good.

Adam Perry Lang 16:23 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 16:24 And it's also, there's an art to the perfect temperature, right? What's the perfect internal temperature of a medium rare steak? Like what should it be, like 135 or something?

Adam Perry Lang 16:35 Mm, no. It's, it's a bit less. But it's not necessarily the temperature. It's kind of like how you get there.

Joe Rogan 16:41 Hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 16:41 Okay? Let me explain that to you. So-

Joe Rogan 16:43 Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 16:43 ... I have this method where, particularly for thicker steaks, where I'll cook it, I start the cooking, and then I get it to about 105 degrees, and then I allow it to rest at 105. And what ends up happening is, is I call the method just like tempering of the meat. And it basically, it starts transmitting the, the temperature in towards the center, and then I put it back in again, and then it will, it'll, it'll heat up. The temperature, if you like take it, I would say for medium rare, even though like on many logs will say, okay, 120, 125 is rare, but it's not. You know, for me, if you're gonna do that method, um, a solid medium rare will be about 120.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Really?

Adam Perry Lang 17:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:28 So why do they think 120 is rare? Like w-

Adam Perry Lang 17:31 I don't really understand it exactly. You know, they'll get there. I think they're overshooting it, um-

Joe Rogan 17:36 Huh.

Adam Perry Lang 17:36 ... particularly. For me, it's not rare. Like, rare is, is, is 110. Uh, using the method that I use.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Now, different people have different methods, which is really what's fascinating about cooking meat. Um, I ate at, uh, a couple times I've eaten at, uh, Bazaar Meats-

Adam Perry Lang 17:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:52 ... in Vegas.

Adam Perry Lang 17:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:52 Which is a fantastic restaurant.

Adam Perry Lang 17:54 Yes, fantastic.

Joe Rogan 17:55 My, one of my-

Adam Perry Lang 17:55 Amazing chef, Jose Andres.

Joe Rogan 17:56 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 17:56 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 17:57 It's an amazing place too. When you walk in there, it's just, visually, it's really interesting because they, they have these grills with r- live logs.

Adam Perry Lang 18:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:05 I mean, they take... Not live-

Adam Perry Lang 18:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:07 ... obviously. But they take logs.

Adam Perry Lang 18:09 Sit-ups. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:09 They're cooking all over fire-

Adam Perry Lang 18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:11 ... and they have these grates, these grill grates that rise and, and lower. And, um, y- you know, you could see how they're doing it when you walk in the door. Like as you're walking to your table, you're passing by.

Adam Perry Lang 18:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:23 And this method of, this idea of cooking over, uh, logs, like cooking over fire, some people prefer that. And then some people like those crazy broilers where they're gas but the broiler, it's on top-

Adam Perry Lang 18:38 Yes, infrared.

Joe Rogan 18:38 ... and you slide the steak in and it's lowering down.

Adam Perry Lang 18:41 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Like, what is the... Is there a difference and why?

Adam Perry Lang 18:44 It really comes down to, um, what your taste preference is. Okay, for me, like, where I'm at right now, dry-aged without any type of smoke or wood is more preferable because I really wanna taste the dry-age. When you start getting into the wood fire cooking and you're burning, um, uh, logs that aren't burnt out, I like to cook basically my wood down to charcoal, like, to ash, um, so that it's cleaner. Okay? So then you really taste the meat. When you start, you know, burning un- un-burnt fuel, you know, the logs themselves, it has like, these creosotes and different flavor compounds that will get on the meat and it's just, it kind of just like coats your palate. So for dry- I like that for more wet-aged beef. Okay? But for the dry-aged, I really like cleaner. I like the steakhouse broiler. I like using a plancha. You know, and that's just like a heated piece of steel. It's like, you can do that in your home with a cast iron, um, skillet.

Joe Rogan 19:36 What, it's called a plancha?

Adam Perry Lang 19:37 Plancha. You know, it's just kind of like this flat sheet of steel.

Joe Rogan 19:41 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 19:42 And, uh, it's all about crust development and surface contact. So like, I like to cut the steaks on a saw so it's a perfect line and it's all about contact, direct with the surface. It's about the browning of the meat. You know, if you're going to get in there and you're gonna cook over, um, live wood like that, he's doing it obviously right 'cause he's amazing, but you know, when you raise and lower the shelf, like I was saying how I rest it-

Joe Rogan 20:07 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 20:07 ... like, you can start on the higher, higher level of the heat and then you bring it up higher, um, the actual grill higher, and it's actually resting while still getting, like, the tickle of, of heat up there.

Joe Rogan 20:20 The tickle of heat.

Adam Perry Lang 20:21 Yeah, so I imagine it like... So the flames won't actually touch the meat. It kinda tickles it. So it's kinda like, it kinda wisps at the bottom of the meat.

Joe Rogan 20:30 And so the way he's doing it at Bazaar Meats, he's using wet-aged steaks.

Adam Perry Lang 20:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:34 'Cause that's how you would cook over, over that kind of...

Adam Perry Lang 20:38 I don't know if he's doing it, that's my personal preference.

Joe Rogan 20:41 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 20:41 I mean, I think he does-

Joe Rogan 20:42 To some people-

Adam Perry Lang 20:42 ... do some aging, he does do some aging I believe over there, so I mean-

Joe Rogan 20:46 But it's, it's just... I've watched YouTube videos on how to cook the perfect steak. You can watch three different videos from three different chefs and there's three different methods. And like, well who's-

Adam Perry Lang 20:55 Same thing about dry aging though.

Joe Rogan 20:56 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 20:56 I mean, all dry aging is not created equal. I call it an environmental chamber. So think about it like making cheese in France. You say, "Hey, I want a goat cheese," and you think you'd get one type of goat cheese across the line. I'm creating an environment just like a cheesemaker, okay, that's unique to my own. I actually have the culture from like 15, 16 years ago that I've traveled with, you know, put-

Joe Rogan 21:17 Hold on, hold on. You put culture... So-

Adam Perry Lang 21:20 Yeah, yeah. I've, I have like a method. I basically take meat that has been aged and I bring those spores if you will from that aging meat 'cause, you know, there's a mold on it. It's a friendly mold. And-

Joe Rogan 21:32 It's a friendly mold? (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 21:33 Yeah, I like it. (laughs) I don't wanna like, I don't wanna like, you know, turn people off to it-

Joe Rogan 21:38 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 21:38 ... because this has been-

Joe Rogan 21:39 I didn't know that you brought your own mold.

Adam Perry Lang 21:41 Yeah, so I-

Joe Rogan 21:42 I just figured you just let it dry age.

Adam Perry Lang 21:44 It's not as, it's not as simple as that.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Ah.

Adam Perry Lang 21:46 For me, like, it's each environment. Again, so I get away from like... Someone can turn around and say... Like, my dry-age is incredibly clean at 100, 100 days, 120 days, um, because I get there slowly, um, my temperature's very low. I like to, you know, dry-age at 32 to 35 degrees. I like a high humidity so I don't dehydrate the meat too soon. I like 85%, sometimes a little bit lower if I wanna pull... It's really depends, you know?

Joe Rogan 22:14 So when you s-

Adam Perry Lang 22:14 And then lots of fans.

Joe Rogan 22:15 So when you say the cult- Like, how are you bringing this culture in? How do you get it to interact with the meat?

Adam Perry Lang 22:20 I basically take, um, I take pieces from the previous, you know, dry-aged room and I bring it to that. And so I put it up by the fan and it will circulate spores.

Joe Rogan 22:31 You put it by the fan?

Adam Perry Lang 22:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:32 Like, h- how do you do that?

Adam Perry Lang 22:33 Well, there's, um, a fan and, and it... In a cooler.

Joe Rogan 22:36 Oh.

Adam Perry Lang 22:36 And, uh, it's blowing around. It's like blowing the c- So it'll blow the, the spores around the room. So my dry-age has a unique flavor. You know, my tri- You know, some great guys who, like master purveyors in the Bronx which is, Louie, these guys are like my heroes, you know. They taught me practically dry aging. Um, they have their own flavor so their dry-aged tastes different. You know, Pat LaFrieda's another New York guy, does amazing dry-aged beef as well. You know, his has a different flavor. So, you know, for me that's why I take a lot of pride even though it's not the most cost-effective thing to carry, you know, $100,000 in inventory. But it gives me a unique flavor profile that is my unique selling point for my restaurant.

Joe Rogan 23:17 So you have these pieces. So like, those steaks that we saw in that photograph, you would take one of those dry-aged steaks when it's ready and then you would trim the pieces off, then you'd use those pieces, those darkened pieces-

Adam Perry Lang 23:30 Yep.

Joe Rogan 23:30 ... which just has the spores on it and that would bl- How do you know how much to put in there?

Adam Perry Lang 23:34 I put as much as I can. You know, I'm really... I don't want it too, like, clean-clean in there, I want it to be an environment. So it's like a cave, um, and, uh, you know, I'll put a couple of trays in and then I'm, I'm very tactile so I'll, I'll touch the meat and I'll, I'll feel it and, you know, I'll taste it, I'll see where we're at. I'm always cutting into a steak. It's like a lot like w-

Joe Rogan 23:55 When you say you taste it, like, you cook it?

Adam Perry Lang 23:57 Yeah, like I'll cut off a piece. Like, how are we looking at 30 days? How are we looking at 50 days? So each room is different because, um, you know, I had a dry-aged room in Vegas and we had, you know, ceilings that were 30, 35 feet, a lot of circulating air. It was just, it was just like, had a different flavor profile. We were ab- able to age 150 days and that was like our sweet spot. Okay? And then here in, in Hollywood, it's a lot less. I have a lower ceiling, it, it circulates differently. It's just, you have to really kind of taste. It's not just like, "Hey, I have dry-age." Or you go to the supermarket, it's like, "Oh, you sell dry-age? Okay, great. I'll take it." And if you think that's what it tastes like, it's a good indicator of what it is but if you really wanna get, you know, like-... down to it, you know. Each dry age can taste a lot different.

Joe Rogan 24:47 That's so... Th- that's really weird. So it's, it's very experimental in a lot of ways.

Adam Perry Lang 24:54 It's constantly moving. I, I-

Joe Rogan 24:55 How long did it take you to dial it in?

Adam Perry Lang 24:58 Well, when I first did it, it was really by mistake, particularly the extended age because you just weren't selling the meat. So I had a couple of pie- a lot of pieces, like, like, left, you know, back for a long time. And, you know, I was like... I ta- I cut into it and I taste it and it's like, "Whoa." I mean, this is incredible. And I was talking to the old school guys who dry age, like, "Oh, you're wasting your money. Nobody wants steak over 42 days," you know. "It's just dehydrating," or whatever. I was like, "No, I think we're onto something." You know, there's a, there's a big difference here in the flavor. And as, you know, we would see, like, a huge difference, a jump in flavor. And like, good quality, not like the funky stuff, like the, the full year. That, like, that's another level. That's textur-

Joe Rogan 25:39 It's very good though.

Adam Perry Lang 25:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:40 You say funky, and I wanna s- I just wanna clarify to people, it is delicious.

Adam Perry Lang 25:44 Yeah, it is delicious.

Joe Rogan 25:45 But it's unusual.

Adam Perry Lang 25:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:46 It's like you're eating something from Africa-

Adam Perry Lang 25:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:48 ... like, you're s- some unusual kudu meat or something like that-

Adam Perry Lang 25:51 It's true.

Joe Rogan 25:51 ... some strange game.

Adam Perry Lang 25:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:53 It's gotta-

Adam Perry Lang 25:53 And you only wanna... You don't wanna eat too much, like, people want, like, a whole steak. I'm like, "No, you just want two slices of it. Savor it like a fine wine. Understand it, get to know it, but don't, like, hunker down on it." That's-

Joe Rogan 26:04 How come you don't want people to hunker down on it?

Adam Perry Lang 26:06 Because sometimes too much of a good thing is not good, okay? And I say the same thing also for, for the Japanese Wagyu, like, "Oh, you see all that fat and the marbleization?" It's incredibly rich, and if you eat it like a Westerner, it's not right. It's just, it's too much. So, certain steaks, certain types of beef, you should be eating only a small amount and appreciating it. Anything more, like, you just... It's just... I don't know, it gets me. It's, it's too much for me.

Joe Rogan 26:36 When did people start dry aging a year? Like, when, when did this really... 'Cause this is not something... I mean, obviously, I know nothing about restaurants-

Adam Perry Lang 26:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:45 ... other than that they're great. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 26:46 Yeah, same.

Joe Rogan 26:47 But when I'd heard about dry aging, I would hear like 30 days dry age-

Adam Perry Lang 26:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:53 ... 60 days dry age. I'd never heard of a year. Like, is this a new thing?

Adam Perry Lang 26:58 Um, you know, they were doing it in Spain for some time, particularly with the older animals, like the oxen, um, you know, animals that are five years, eight years, 10 years old. And they would age these for long periods of time. I was not aware of this when I started doing it, but they were the first people that I heard about it was doing it while I was doing it. There was an amazing food writer, Jeffrey Steingarten, who just, like, dialed into me, and, uh, we did a tasting with one of my culinary her- heroes, uh, Harold McGee, um, who wrote the incredible book On Food and Cooking, which is a scientific manual to all chefs around, um. He's an amazing guy. And he had put in his book that there's n- really no difference in flavor when you get to that, that point, and so... That later stage. So we cook three steaks, and we cut a cube out of the center of it, and at that point, you know, he says, "Wait, maybe there is something different." Um, I'm not sure. I mean, nowadays, you hear more about it because we're chefs, we like to play with things, we like to push the limits on things. But, um, not many people wanna make the commitment because it's so costly to carry the inventory, and they're scared to actually do it, because if you screw it up, you know, you lose all the money, so, um. I see more of it now but back when I was doing it, there really wasn't anybody else pushing the limits. Maybe a few people. I don't wanna say it like I was the only one, but, you know, possibly there could've been a few people but, you know.

Joe Rogan 28:28 So it's, uh... What's, what's interesting to me about cu- just cuisine and cooking in general is that I didn't think of it... Until I watched Bourdain's original show, No Reservations, I didn't think of it as an art form. And then when I watched the show, I was like, "Look how interested, into cooking this guy is." That's one of the things about people being really passionate about something. It's in- it's, um, incredibly contagious. And his passion for cooking and his, his fascination with different methods that these masters would use, and the way he would just, just... You could see it, like, he was, he was so focused on it, and so enthralled by these flavors and these creations that these chefs would make that I realized like, "Oh, this is an art form. It's just an art form that you eat." But I never thought of it that way. I just thought, "Oh, that place has delicious food. This place tastes good." And then you go to a really fine restaurant-

Adam Perry Lang 29:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:32 ... or a fine steakhouse like your place, and you go, "Oh, these people are ma- they're artists. They're artists."

Adam Perry Lang 29:40 It bounces between art and craft, you know.

Joe Rogan 29:42 Yes.

Adam Perry Lang 29:43 It's, it's like there's, there's a moment in time when, as chefs, w- we explore it as art, you know, because, you know, you're not going in with any boundaries and you're not going in any preconceived notions of what it should be, and that's when cooking is a true art. Most of the time, we're, we're doing the, the craft part, where we figured it out and then there's a, a regiment of, like, lining it up to make sure it's consistent, and we pride ourselves in basically that consistency and team gathering around and doing something universal together. But the art form for me is... And maintaining just being curious and inquisitive has just been my bug from the day I decided to be a chef, and for many people like Bourdain and every other, um, chef that I know of, that's, that's the key, that you know that you'll never learn everything, you know. But, you know, you keep trying this, this... Like a sea of information that, you know, that's out there to explore.

Joe Rogan 30:38 Yeah, he would take you on these journeys to these, like, very strange restaurants in France-... where, you know, they're on the side of a lake and there's, like, 10 customers and 100 chefs working-

Adam Perry Lang 30:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:49 ... and they're, they're creating these things, like with filet knives and a grape-

Adam Perry Lang 30:53 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:53 ... and, like-

Adam Perry Lang 30:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:54 ... two, two or three caviar eggs-

Adam Perry Lang 30:56 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:56 ... and then they give it to these people and they're in ecstasy. I'm like, "What? This is so different." I, I, I almost felt embarrassed when I first started talking to him about this. Like, like, I, it's, is it... You know what it's like, it's like for me? Like, I've been a, a lifelong martial artist, and I... When, when some people believe ridiculous things about martial arts and then you have to kind of ex- "Well, that's not really how it works."

Adam Perry Lang 31:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:18 You have to kind of explain to them, and then they see it from my perspective and they're like, "Oh, you've been doing this your whole life. This is something you're, you're deeply invested in and you're very passionate about and you care very deeply about the, the, the true nature of what martial arts are." Well, that's how cooking is to chefs. It's, they're all very similar. I know people don't like to think of martial arts as an art form.

Adam Perry Lang 31:41 That's a great analogy.

Joe Rogan 31:42 Yeah, but it, they don't like to think of it as an art form because it hurts people-

Adam Perry Lang 31:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:45 ... because it's violent-

Adam Perry Lang 31:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:46 ... and violence is bad.

Adam Perry Lang 31:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:48 But it, it is an art form. It's just a strange one that i- i- it's beautiful to the people that appreciate it that understand how difficult it is to pull something off and how, what this incredible dance between these people is. But on the outside, like, a, an ignorant person or a person with a, a very narrow-minded perspective would say, "Oh, that's not an art. That's violence. That's terrible." Like, was it Meryl Streep that said that?

Narrator 32:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:14 Wasn't it, during when... Yeah, it was, it was. Like, "Martial arts are not the arts." Like, okay, lady. (laughs) Settle down.

Adam Perry Lang 32:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:23 It's, people have their preconceived notions, and I had an embarrassing preconceived notion about food. And I say embarrassing because-

Adam Perry Lang 32:32 Great analogy, by the way.

Joe Rogan 32:33 It is-

Adam Perry Lang 32:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:34 ... in, in many ways.

Adam Perry Lang 32:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:35 And then co- comedy is similar in that sense as well because people look at comedy like, "Oh, they're just telling jokes." So, yes, yes, they are telling jokes, but the process is so labor-intensive. There's so much going on and it's, I think it's like everything. So many things, you look at them from the outside, whether it's carpentry or sculpture, you look at it from the outside and if you have no experience in it, people can dismiss it.

Adam Perry Lang 33:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 33:02 And they don't think of it as this passionate art form, but now I have a completely different... I mean, I became good friends with Bourdain and, you know, I did his show and hung out with him a bunch of times, and I, I got it then. I'm like, "Okay, this is a different thing than I, I had this, this idea, this narrow-minded idea of what food is." And then you get to meet other chefs and you meet all these people and you're like, these are these, like, sort of underappreciated artists that are also feeding people.

Adam Perry Lang 33:31 He had that ability. He had that ability-

Joe Rogan 33:32 Yes.

Adam Perry Lang 33:33 ... to bridge the gap and, and to help people understand. He schooled me once in trying to understand Japanese cuisine.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Yeah, you were telling me about that.

Adam Perry Lang 33:40 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 33:40 Tell, tell me about, what was that like?

Adam Perry Lang 33:42 Well, I was just, I was sitting there. We were around a table. I was there with him and Emeril. It was, it was, it was after an event down in South Beach Food & Wine, um, and we're all, as cooks do, all at the end of an event, you know, we're sitting around and we're just kinda reminiscing on things happening. And he was there and I was sitting next to him and someone brought up the concept of, you know, Japanese cuisine and I just said, "Yeah, you know, it's, it's so simple." Um, and he just says, "Yes, but it's so complex." And then I just took a step back and he just began to really school me on it, and he just had the ability just to really communicate food and connection to, um, community and culture and, um, and that, for me, was, was a big moment. Like, I just got to really see him as that person directly.

Joe Rogan 34:33 I didn't think that sushi was very complex at all, that Japanese food was kind of... Until I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi.

Adam Perry Lang 34:39 I know. That's it. It's-

Joe Rogan 34:41 You, you watch that and you go, "Oh, oh my gosh." (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 34:44 I mean, you just look at the fish and it just starts to curl, you know? It's so fresh. Or they slap the clam and it just, like, curls up. It's like, "Whoa, that's fresh." And the pride and the seasonality and... I mean, like, what blew me away, I've been to Japan a couple of times. They have this amazing guy, he's known as the Tokyo Fix- Fixer, Shinji Nohara. All the chefs know him. If you go to Japan-

Joe Rogan 35:04 Tokyo Fixer?

Adam Perry Lang 35:05 Yeah, he's known as the Tokyo Fixer.

Joe Rogan 35:07 Why is he a fixer?

Adam Perry Lang 35:08 Because he knows all the places on the, in the books, off the books. If you wanted to, let's say, just, y- you know, know who, like, produces the best tuna, he'll get you to the tuna boat and he'll introduce you to the guy, the main guy. But, I mean, these guys who buy the tun- buy the tuna, for example, like, you're seeing them at the market touching, feeling it, but the best sushi chefs know the actual captains and they know how they're handling the fish and they have a relationship that far before the a- it actually hits the auction. I mean, they're in it. They're, they're so committed. I, I asked him one day, you know, he was talking about a, this big tuna auction that they do every year, and I said, "Why would someone pay a million dollars for tuna?" Like, you know, Western, like, how do you make your money back? He's like, "No, you know, Japanese, it's, it's, it's considered a n- you know, um, an obligation, um, if you can afford it, to actually be able to, even at a loss, to your customers, because it's almost a duty to do so." And that, for me, is profound, and that's why Japanese chefs... I went there and I was just like...

Joe Rogan 36:14 That, the million dollar tuna thing was explained to me by another chef as a dick waving contest. He said it's essentially you're, you're looking for... It's, it's a prestige thing, but-

Adam Perry Lang 36:24 It is a prestige thing.

Joe Rogan 36:25 Yeah, like that they'll, they'll show that they're spending so much money on this tuna, not because it's worth that-

Adam Perry Lang 36:31 No, it's definitely not.

Joe Rogan 36:33 Yeah, b- b- because that's, that's why it's confusing to people, 'cause people are like, "How's a tuna worth a million dollars?" Well, it's not.But-

Adam Perry Lang 36:39 Like, culturally-

Joe Rogan 36:40 Yes.

Adam Perry Lang 36:40 ... deep down inside of them, it's like it's almost their duty to do it. It's not as if... I mean, it's, it's definitely like a sh- you could look at it as a show-off thing, but, I mean, if you really understand from, like, Western culture. But in reality there, it's almost like it's a pride thing.

Joe Rogan 36:54 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 36:54 It's not like, "Hey, look at me." It's really more like, you know, "I'm able to provide this for my customers." So it's, it... To me, it's like... It's a little bit more beautiful to look at it that way.

Joe Rogan 37:05 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 37:06 You know, and, and profound and, like, even, like, why I got into making knives, for me, it's like, is everything to do with my trips to Japan was because I wanted to, as a chef, to do everything that I can within the cycle of serving the steak on the plate, like, up to the point where they cut the meat to, to, you know, have that control on it. And then ultimately, whether they like it or not, that's their business. But at least I did everything that I could, you know, to control it 'cause even just how you cut the meat is, has a different impact on how you would taste it.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about your place. Like, you make the steak knives.

Adam Perry Lang 37:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:45 So like, when they serve you and they put the, the forks and the knife down, they tell you, you know, "Adam Perry Lang made this steak knife."

Adam Perry Lang 37:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:53 And you're like, "Oh."

Adam Perry Lang 37:54 And I priced it at $950.01. Everybody like, "Why so much?" I say, "It's priced to be a deterrent." You know, it's one cent over the felony threshold. And, you know-

Joe Rogan 38:04 What's the felony threshold?

Adam Perry Lang 38:05 It's like if you steal something and the value is over $950, it's a felony.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Really?

Adam Perry Lang 38:11 So... Yeah. So, in the state of California. So from my perspective, like, I don't wanna sit there, you know, like some... You know, people are idiots sometimes. You know, they'll go into the restaurant and they'll just take stuff and they don't realize what goes into it. And it's like, listen, you know, I know I'm gonna have a couple of bad apples in there, but the majority of people really are, are good people and they're not gonna steal things. But a good majority will take pepper mills and things, I mean, which infuriates us as restaurateurs. Um, so-

Joe Rogan 38:37 (coughs) God, that's so gross.

Adam Perry Lang 38:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:38 I never thought of that. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 38:38 Oh, it's terrible. It's terrible. Like, what they'll take. You know, meaningful stuff because, you know, you, you really want to, like, do nice things for your customer.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Do you catch people taking pepper mills?

Adam Perry Lang 38:49 Um, no, I don't put pepper mills on the table. I won't even expose myself to it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:54 (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 38:54 But for the knife, though, we have caught... Like, I have one story. You know, only a few people have attempted and, um, I basically got to the point of, like, pressing charges to, to get the guy. And, but instead I said... I found him on, you know, uh, Twitter and I messaged him. I was like, "Listen, I don't-"

Joe Rogan 39:12 Wait, how'd you know who's took your knife?

Adam Perry Lang 39:14 You know, we know everything in the... We have cameras and we have, you know, who the reservation is under. So we had cameras, uh, all over the restaurant. So when we put the knives down, we have a whole system of, like, knife in, knife out. And, uh, this guy had slipped in... I'm not gonna mention his name 'cause at the end of the day, he did the right thing. But he had slipped the knife into the baby carriage, into his baby's carriage.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Oh, God.

Adam Perry Lang 39:36 And I'm like, "You mother..." I said, "You fucking..." So I, uh... So I called him very calmly and I said, "Listen, I don't think you realize what went into those knives. I make them." No response, no response and I, then I reminded, I said, "It's a felony and I'm gonna give you until six o'clock today to return the knife." And, um, then he realized we were serious. He returned the knife and then, you know, now we-

Joe Rogan 40:01 So he returned it personally?

Adam Perry Lang 40:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Oh.

Adam Perry Lang 40:03 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:03 How awkward. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 40:04 Yeah. I had another guy w- and he returned it and he just, like, was pissed off. He handed it back and he walked out the door. I was like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:10 Why is he mad at you? 'Cause he stole something.

Adam Perry Lang 40:13 (sighs) I can't figure it.

Joe Rogan 40:15 God, that's... Dealing with the general public, I mean, in a sense, this is a lot like comedy clubs. Like, most people are amazing.

Adam Perry Lang 40:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 40:21 And then you get a few knuckleheads-

Adam Perry Lang 40:23 You don't get it.

Joe Rogan 40:24 ... that wanna yell out things and interrupt the show and...

Adam Perry Lang 40:26 And you just try not-

Joe Rogan 40:27 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 40:27 ... to allow it to, to-

Joe Rogan 40:29 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 40:29 ... penetrate you, to start causing you to not make nice things so your customers enjoy.

Joe Rogan 40:34 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 40:34 So you try to, like, block that out.

Joe Rogan 40:36 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 40:36 And just try to give, like, a good experience to people-

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 40:40 ... the best that you can.

Joe Rogan 40:41 Yeah, that's the same thing with comedy. You know, you wanna make sure that you n- never have a negative, uh, feeling about the audience. But some people do develop that that don't understand your... It's, it's almost like if you read every comment on Twitter, you know, most people are nice.

Adam Perry Lang 40:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:00 But it only takes 1%.

Adam Perry Lang 41:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:02 Like, I was explaining to my friend, uh, Jack, uh, who was on the other day, uh, author, Jack Carr, and, uh, he read some comments. He goes, "Now I know why you don't read the comments." I'm like, "I told you." I go, "Listen, you just have to think, if 1% of the people who, uh, are on my Instagram page are assholes, just 1%, that's 92,000 assholes."

Adam Perry Lang 41:26 (laughs) That's insane.

Joe Rogan 41:27 You have to think of it that way.

Adam Perry Lang 41:29 I know.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Like, why would you risk your mental well-being-

Adam Perry Lang 41:33 It's true.

Joe Rogan 41:33 ... and put it in the hand of 92,000 assholes? That, and that's generous. One out of 100 people, if you went into a room and there's 100 people in there, what are the odds that one of those people is gonna be a fucking idiot? It's pretty high.

Adam Perry Lang 41:44 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:45 Right? Well, you've gotta think that way times three or four online because of anonymity-

Adam Perry Lang 41:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:51 ... because the fact that people are... You know, they don't think they're hurting a person when they say something mean. When they look at a restaurant, it's like, "Oh, these fucking guys, they don't need this knife." And they just-

Adam Perry Lang 41:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:59 ... tuck it away.

Adam Perry Lang 42:00 Or this will look cool and, like-

Joe Rogan 42:01 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 42:01 ... it's almost like-

Joe Rogan 42:02 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 42:02 ... there's an entitlement, you know?

Joe Rogan 42:03 Yes. And, "Oh, this meal was so expensive."

Adam Perry Lang 42:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:05 "I'll steal a knife."

Adam Perry Lang 42:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:06 Yeah. They mean, they, they, they feel like you are doing great. You've got this really nice restaurant on, uh, Vine in Hollywood.

Adam Perry Lang 42:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:16 You must be a baller.

Adam Perry Lang 42:17 Yeah. They don't get it.

Joe Rogan 42:18 No. Well, hopefully they'll get it if they hear this.

Adam Perry Lang 42:20 Yeah, well-

Joe Rogan 42:21 Maybe there's a guy out there-

Adam Perry Lang 42:21 ... they probably won't. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:23 ... listening that-

Adam Perry Lang 42:23 They-

Joe Rogan 42:23 ... that actually stole the knife.

Adam Perry Lang 42:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:25 Right now, he's like, "You motherfucker."

Adam Perry Lang 42:26 Yeah. Well, we ha-

Joe Rogan 42:28 "You brought me up." (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 42:28 We've gotten them back. (laughs) We've gotten them back, the good majority of them, so-

Joe Rogan 42:31 Oh, so, there's a few out there. Out in the wild.

Adam Perry Lang 42:34 A few out there.

Joe Rogan 42:35 And you can buy them too, right?

Adam Perry Lang 42:36 You c- Well, you know what? Like, uh, I have sold it, but again, I price it to deter.

Joe Rogan 42:42 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 42:43 So, because I only have a certain number. You know, I, I made, uh, I think I made, uh, like-... 320 on the first run, and then I just made another 500 with, uh, my partner. This, he's a master bladesmith, this guy, Casey London. He's just, you know, him and I, like, we're head down and we can literally spend 12 to 14 hours just stamping an ex- insignia into the blade. And, you know, days upon days, like, thousands of hours of work go into these things and, uh-

Joe Rogan 43:13 Who else does that? Is there any other chefs that make their own knives?

Adam Perry Lang 43:17 Not that I really know of.

Joe Rogan 43:18 You got that market cornered. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 43:19 I guess so. (laughs) I guess so, you know.

Joe Rogan 43:22 How did you get involved in that? Like, was that something you thought, like, "Hey, this would be a great additional touch," or were you always fascinated with knife making?

Adam Perry Lang 43:29 Well, I was al- I've always been fascinated by knives because, you know, knives to a chef are an extension of themselves. So you can judge, like, a chef just basically on how sharp their, and how they maintain their knives in terms of what type of quality of output they're actually going to do. It's a sense of pride. It's like, so if you're just a home, someone who has a garden and grows a tomato, you know, b- you're gonna take that first tomato, you think you're just gonna grab any knife from the drawer? You're gonna get your sharpest knife and you're gonna slice into it. So, like, everything we do, it's like if you're seriously committed to the craft, it's like you wanna make sure your tools are top-notch. And for me, I've always, you know, always had a knife in my hand. But when I sold my business in London, um, you know, I wanted to just take some time and I got into this concept of wanting just to go that next step, that next level. Um, and I was fascinated with steel. So I went to the New England School of Metalwork and, um, I started, I, first we learned how to make steel from, um, from iron, and then went through the whole process. Pretty great-

Joe Rogan 44:31 How long did that take?

Adam Perry Lang 44:33 Um, they have these great courses, you know, week, two weeks, three weeks at a pop. So you know, it was about a year, um, flying back and forth to Maine to, to attend the school. And then that community is, is like I remember our restaurant community before, um, Food Network got involved. And you know, it's all about craft and, and sharing information. So you can go to these things called hammer-ins, where around the country there'll be an ensemble of maybe, like, nine to ten, you know, master smiths who will show like, "Hey, okay, handle making," or, you know, um, making a, a dagger or, um, tempering steel, you know, in a certain way. And you know, you learn and, uh, I just became fascinated with it. Um, I mean, just th- to actually just use a power hammer with a 5,000-pound, uh, anvil and like, t- thin out steel and t- it's just like, it's, it just puts adrenaline through you. It's like physical, like making something and then knowing that you're making something that will last generations if it's maintained. I mean, that's powerful stuff. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:38 You wanna see something cool on the other table?

Adam Perry Lang 45:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:40 That's a samurai sword from the 1500s.

Adam Perry Lang 45:42 Where? Where? Where?

Joe Rogan 45:43 Yeah, hold on a second. You need to see this.

Adam Perry Lang 45:45 I do need to see this. I'm into this. Oh. Oh my gosh. Can I take a look?

Joe Rogan 45:52 Yeah, pull it out. Don't cut anybody.

Adam Perry Lang 45:54 I won't.

Joe Rogan 45:54 That's a legit samurai sword.

Adam Perry Lang 45:58 Wow.

Joe Rogan 45:58 With papers and everything, with the-

Adam Perry Lang 45:59 With the stingray fricking-

Joe Rogan 46:00 Yeah, I don't, I don't know whether the scabbard is original, but the steel, the actual steel is original. I'm sure it's been re-wrapped.

Adam Perry Lang 46:06 Can you imagine that? Now look at this steel. I mean, this steel is like ...

Joe Rogan 46:11 It's 500 years old.

Adam Perry Lang 46:13 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 46:13 That's what's crazy.

Adam Perry Lang 46:14 And that's the profound thing. I mean, there's something about making something that would last like that. I mean ...

Joe Rogan 46:19 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 46:19 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 46:21 No, it's amazing. It's an amazing thing to just, to have around. And when you pick it up and hold it, it's got weight to it, but it's, it's, it's delicate in the sense that it's, it's thin-

Adam Perry Lang 46:33 Well-balanced.

Joe Rogan 46:33 ... and elegant, but yet it's designed-

Adam Perry Lang 46:36 And you see the curve in the blade like that?

Joe Rogan 46:37 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 46:38 And you know, what's amazing about this is that when they do the quench, in other words when they're actually putting the sole of the blade into it ...

Joe Rogan 46:44 What does that mean?

Adam Perry Lang 46:45 The heat treatment.

Joe Rogan 46:46 Oh.

Adam Perry Lang 46:46 So, you know, anybody can like pound out and make a shape ... Well, not anybody, but pretty much anybody who's handy with, you know, making things can make what looks like a blade. But the true soul of the blade comes through the thermal cycle, the heat treatment. Um, that's why, you know, people are like, "Oh, Japanese steel is the best," or, "German steel is the best." Because there's this whole process that is about aligning the molecular structure and the right type of stack and the type of steel that you do, and then hardening it or, or, or softening it. So if you want a softer blade or, you know, that might be more utility and, um, or you want a harder blade that might be more brittle but can get really razor sharp. That's what determines what the blade is and what it will be. And it's that soul of the blade that, um, like something like this, so this curve is actually produced by the quench. So after you go through this process and you heat it up and you put it into the, the water, it actually, it just bows up and actually creates its curve, and evenly too, which is incredible. That's why these guys are, to me, the epitome of, like, masters, these craftsmen that make knives and blades. Well-

Joe Rogan 47:58 Well, there's always the dopest scenes in movies where someone's making a samurai sword when they're about to go out and kill somebody with it. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 48:04 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:04 That's, this is, the thing is the guy goes to the knife master or the, the sword master and he's pounding on it and the, the red hot steel and-

Adam Perry Lang 48:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:12 ... dunking into the fire.

Adam Perry Lang 48:13 They want, you know, I went, I wanted to get a blade made for me in Japan and I went to this amazing place, Korin Trading in New York. And, um, uh, the owner, um, she came to me and she says, "Well, the knife maker would like to have a picture of you, um, while they're making the blade." And, uh, at that time I was just like, "Whoa, this is," this was before I was making metals.

Joe Rogan 48:34 So he wants to look at you while he's making it?

Adam Perry Lang 48:35 He was like, yeah, for some re- I said, "Wow, that's pretty profound," you know? I was like, "Okay." You know, puts your soul, your character into the blade, so-

Joe Rogan 48:43 So he wants to think of you as he's making the thing for you.

Adam Perry Lang 48:45 I guess so.

Joe Rogan 48:46 That's cool.

Adam Perry Lang 48:46 But for me it was pretty incredible. This is amazing.

Joe Rogan 48:49 Yeah, let me get it outta here before something spills on it.

Adam Perry Lang 48:51 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:52 Yeah, I always f- I, people take pictures with this and I'll have you take a picture with it-

Adam Perry Lang 48:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:56 ... at the end of the... Ooh.

Adam Perry Lang 48:57 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:59 See, that's why. There we go. Let it set right there.

Adam Perry Lang 49:03 You got so much cool stuff around here.

Joe Rogan 49:05 Too much. This fucking, this desk's a mess.

Adam Perry Lang 49:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:07 I'm cleaning it up today.

Adam Perry Lang 49:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:09 After this podcast, I've decided I gotta take, uh, Donnell Rawlings' black ash candle off. I love you, Donnell, but I'm not into the smell every day.

Adam Perry Lang 49:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:19 But, um, I wanted to get back to something you said earlier. You said, "The way restaurants were before the Food Network."

Adam Perry Lang 49:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Like, what happened?

Adam Perry Lang 49:28 You know, I think Food Network and, and food shows in general are a great thing. You know, it empowers people to cook. And there's all different levels and I think it's the g- the greatest thing. And also, it's given us as chefs a platform to do some incredible things too. But there was a different type of motivation between, uh, between the cooks in the kitchen and a good number of the cooks today. So before, you know, there was a celebrity, um, involved.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Mm.

Adam Perry Lang 49:58 So you were there for the reason, for the love, the art of it. Where as nowadays, I'm not gonna say everybody because I cook with and I know there's plenty of people that are very serious about it, it's about, about the craft, the putting in the hours, the repetition that doesn't make sense until all of a sudden you're doing something without thinking about it. And that's what it was like really before. Um, we were just, everybody was in the kitchen was there because they loved cooking not, not for any reason of celebrity or, or whatever it is.

Joe Rogan 50:33 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 50:33 So it, it really, it did change good, you know, patience, like, so people, like, the, the progression would be like, oh, you work as a line cook for three to four years. And then, you know, you're, then you're a sous-chef for a number of years. And then you're a chef and, you know, there was a progression. And then when the whole thing came along, then it was everybody was like from culinary school to chef, you know.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Mm.

Adam Perry Lang 50:57 They wanted to jump right into it.

Joe Rogan 50:59 And are, do you think there's a significant number of people that are actually getting into cooking to become famous?

Adam Perry Lang 51:07 There's something about it, yeah. There's an allure. I mean, it, it, uh, it has a, it has a thing. I don't know, not the term, uh, famous is a little bit different. I'd say like notoriety, in other words.

Joe Rogan 51:18 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 51:18 They're like ready to show, like, "Hey, I can do this." But with cooking, there, there's a certain number of hours you just, you cannot avoid. You have to put this in. You have to have the knife in the, in your hand for thousands and thousands of hours before you really are starting to cook. Because it's easy to do a dish, but it's difficult to do a dish and to cook, you know, consistently with all the different things getting thrown at you like this coronavirus thing. Like, okay, how do you adapt? How are you resilient? You know, how can you bounce back? How do you understand, like, no matter what, I'm gonna get this dish up at nine o'clock if that customer wants it at nine o'clock, not anything else? I mean, there's... So the more that you can get in terms of your toolbox, in terms of the use of the knife, I mean, cooking, I don't think about cooking when I'm doing it. It's just only when I step back and reflect and I wanna teach somebody, I say, "Oh yeah, I do that. Oh, I didn't notice that." But 'cause all of a sudden your hands start moving and 'cause it's all about heat. So you're like, "Oh, I have heat on the side of the grill. I know it's not on the grill grates, but I'm gonna use it to cook the side of the steak. I'm gonna push it up against there."

Joe Rogan 52:23 How often do you teach people?

Adam Perry Lang 52:25 Anytime that somebody asks. I, I love teaching it. I mean, for me, I love to share my knowledge. And I mean, I'm at a stage where, you know, it- it's like martial arts. So I, I did Aikido for a while and what was amazing to me was the learning process for the black belts. So you're a white belt basically until you're a black belt pretty much. I know there's some brown belts in there. But, you know, when you're training, you know, by teaching and explaining and slowing down, you get to reinvent, uh, not reinvent, you get to reacquaint yourself-

Joe Rogan 52:57 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 52:57 ... with something that is so familiar. So that movement might be functional, but now you're, you're seeing someone else doing it and like, it causes you to rethink it. So when I'm teaching somebody, I'm actually learning.

Joe Rogan 53:09 Yeah, that happens. That's a big part of, uh, this process that happens in jujitsu when people start teaching. And I've seen... I- I- I've never taught jujitsu, but I've seen it from a lot of my friends that have become teachers. All of a sudden, their level jumps way up. And that's the only thing that could be attributed to is that they're teaching people. So because they're teaching people, they're going over the fine details-

Adam Perry Lang 53:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:31 ... that you would ordinarily... You just kind of have it in your head, like, you know when you pass the guard, you put your knee here, you put your foot there. It's normal. You do it all the time. But then when you're teaching someone, it solidifies the important points.

Adam Perry Lang 53:43 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 53:43 And almost all the great jujitsu practitioners are also great teachers.

Adam Perry Lang 53:47 That, it's key.

Joe Rogan 53:49 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 53:49 I totally relate to that correlation, you know, for me. You know, it gets you to really like dial in on the minutia of details and perfect yourself. Well, not perfect your- but strive towards perfection.

Joe Rogan 54:00 The craft of cooking. Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 54:01 The craft of cooking.

Joe Rogan 54:02 And again, there's probably a- a dozen or more different styles, right? Like, everyone's got their own way to sort of prepare things and do things.

Adam Perry Lang 54:12 There's definitely a core. Like, you'll have different schools of how you approach things. Like, you say, "Hey, one guy does it this way, one guy does it that way."

Joe Rogan 54:19 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 54:20 But I think the best thing that you can say is that, you know, y- you know, I like, I think about it as like, hey, you have a golf bag and you have all these different irons and woods and all these different things in there. It's like, what... Uh, you know, the circumstance, the environment is gonna dictate how you cook.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Mm.

Adam Perry Lang 54:35 Not say, "Hey, I'm gonna cook that steak and I'm gonna use a cast iron pan." It's like, well, I don't have a cast iron pan. So what are you gonna do? It's like, "Well, I'm gonna cook it on a grill." It's like, you don't have a grill. It's like, okay. Um, what do I have? It's like, you have this, this, and this. That's, you know, so I only have this shitty, you know, steel pan here and doing like this. And you know, you take a look at it and you're like, you adapt.... you know, I, I guess that's-

Joe Rogan 54:59 Is a shil- is steel pan shitty?

Adam Perry Lang 55:01 No, no, it's great. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:02 Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 55:02 He use that, like, I'm just saying like, the steel pans are great. Blue steel, you know, I use that all the time in the kitchen. Um, you know, I like cast iron just in terms of the, the heat recovery that it has. Um-

Joe Rogan 55:15 What does that mean?

Adam Perry Lang 55:16 When you have a cast iron pan, so you, you heat ... It t- it's like, it's slow to heat up, but then once it gets to that level, if I was to put like a cold steak in it, the cold steak on a different type of pan would bring the temperature of the steel down, and then it has to heat back up. And then by that time, water can start to develop, like underneath the steak, and then it starts boiling or steaming, and that's why you can't get a crust. When you put in a steak into a cast iron pan, for example, and you do a plancha or whatever, the rate, the rate at which water is repelled is it basically, it steams or it goes away from the meat. It's actually ... And so as a result, it then starts the browning, okay, and transforming the flavor rather than it boiling, 'cause if you tasted a boiled piece of meat versus a, a piece of meat with a crust, you'd say the piece of meat with the crust is a lot better, you know. So there is just something about it. So the cast iron pan is basically, when you put the steak in, the temperature is, it's not even gonna be moved 'cause that's, it's like a freight train. It's just moving, you know, it's gonna keep going. But something like a thinner steel pan, if you put something big and cold into it, it's gonna drop the temperature of the steel and then it has to recover, not only with the steel, but the mass of let's say a thick steak. So it's gotta compensate.

Joe Rogan 56:34 Hm.

Adam Perry Lang 56:34 That's, that's really why.

Joe Rogan 56:36 Now, I have a carbon steel pan that I sear steaks on all the time. The, most of the time, the way I cook is I use a, a Traeger Grill and I cook it very slow. So I'll do it at 225 degrees and I do it until I hit an, an internal temperature about 125, and then I sear the outside.

Adam Perry Lang 56:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:55 That's been the method that I use.

Adam Perry Lang 56:57 Well, uh, I'm gonna just share my knowledge with you. So I, you know, with cooking steaks, the, the term sear doesn't really, um, it's, it's a misnomer.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 57:06 There's only browning, 'cause like searing really only can happen when, you know, you have live flesh, so to speak. So it doesn't actually happen like where it sears in or seals in juices.

Joe Rogan 57:16 What about like ahi tuna, when they sear that?

Adam Perry Lang 57:18 Well-

Joe Rogan 57:18 Isn't that, is that technically searing?

Adam Perry Lang 57:19 I mean, it's more like, more like browning, um-

Joe Rogan 57:22 Okay.

Adam Perry Lang 57:22 I, I mean, I'm just, it's just like a-

Joe Rogan 57:24 It's a terminology thing?

Adam Perry Lang 57:24 ... techn- it's just terminology.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah, okay.

Adam Perry Lang 57:25 It's like, keep searing. I'm not, I'm not telling you not to think like that-

Joe Rogan 57:28 No, I understand what you're saying.

Adam Perry Lang 57:29 ... but the concept is, it's, it's browning, it's not searing. So, um, uh, bring me back on track.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Low temperature.

Adam Perry Lang 57:36 Okay, so-

Joe Rogan 57:37 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 57:37 ... for example, what I would tweak with you is like I would say go to 265. You're gonna have the same results in a quicker period of time-

Joe Rogan 57:44 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 57:45 ... but with the same tenderness. Um, that ratio of speed is not gonna impact, um, your product. So at the end of the day, 225 is, everybody says slow and low, but I'd say a lot of times, like a bit hotter and a bit quicker is actually better for the crust development and also for the meat. Because for the tenderness of the meat, let's say you have a thick like, like a brisket-

Joe Rogan 58:06 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 58:06 ... and it's got all these co- all this collagen in it, which is tightly wound protein, I think about it as like a sponge that's dehydrated. When you throw it on top of the water, it kinda floats and then all of a sudden, it catches and then soaks up the juice. So when you're putting it in at that lower temperature, you're heating it up, you're causing the protein to squeeze out the liquid, and then if you're doing it at the right ratio, it's drinking the liquid into the collagen to turn it to gelatin, which is that unctuous, beautiful mouth feel that you'll get from a long cooked piece of meat, okay.

Joe Rogan 58:39 Mm-hmm. Now if you get a long cooked piece of meat, like, uh, a really well done brisket-

Adam Perry Lang 58:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:43 ... what temperature are you cooking that at?

Adam Perry Lang 58:45 Um, depending on the cooker that I'm using, but 265 is my, is my like typical dial-in.

Joe Rogan 58:51 So 265, you don't, you ever go lower than that for anything?

Adam Perry Lang 58:55 I can if, if I wanna get sleep. It's depending on my schedule. In other words, like, I'm gonna get relatively the same results but less crust development from 225, depending on how I handle it. Again, there's like lots of little variables.

Joe Rogan 59:08 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 59:09 So, but, um, by 265, I've found that for brisket, for example, it's the right ratio of that collagen drinking it up to get the gelatin and also the right crust development.

Joe Rogan 59:19 Mm. The, a lot of what I cook is wild game, like most of it.

Adam Perry Lang 59:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:23 So-

Adam Perry Lang 59:23 Which is a lot lean than, and-

Joe Rogan 59:25 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 59:26 ... um, and so that's why I would go a little bit hotter. Um, try it the next time you got nothing to lose.

Joe Rogan 59:29 So 265?

Adam Perry Lang 59:30 Go 265 on it.

Joe Rogan 59:31 Okay, and then wh- how do you feel about that method of cooking it slowly then browning the outside later?

Adam Perry Lang 59:37 Uh, I don't, I'm not a big fan of it because, you know, there's all these different compounds that are form- you know, it's not like, I mean, they call it like a reverse sear.

Joe Rogan 59:46 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 59:46 That's like the terminology.

Joe Rogan 59:47 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 59:48 For me, there's nothing like a crust that is created, because what ends up happening is, is like, you know, if you're cooking it slow, all these juices start get pulled out, okay, and they disappear. They're, like, they're juice on the bag, you make it into a sauce or it gets evaporated into the air. The thing about doing that is, is like if you're putting it directly in the pan while it's wet, all those juices are bouncing back and then readhering to the meat, okay. That's flavor. That's flavor you, you would lose normally. Now, the sacrifice is like sure, you'll get it cooked from end to end perfect, okay, so it'll be pink to pink, okay, it's great.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 1:00:23 But if you go back and, you know, sear it or brown it after, you miss out on all these compounds and it, it's not the same crust. I b- I bet you if I gave you a blind taste test using the both methods, you would appreciate the other crust over the reverse sear.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 And this is even with wild game, even with a very lean meat?

Adam Perry Lang 1:00:43 That's a different story.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 That's what I cook though.

Adam Perry Lang 1:00:45 Okay, um, that's a different story. So with the lean meat, um, I would probably say to brown it first and then go slow, the reverse, 'cause there is a gentle, there is a gentle way of-... of, of like, it's so lean you wanna kind of like slide into home, I kinda say. Is like, you develop a certain amount of ment- momentum and for the leaner meats, it's about the rest. So you're cooking it and then you're taking it out and then you're allowing that heat momentum to kinda carry over.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Now, I gave you a bunch of elk meat.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 How did you cook it?

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:18 Um, a lot of it just like hot and fast so I can really taste it, you know. I don't mind a bit of a chew. Most people are different, you know. For me, I wanna taste the meat, I wanna savor like the juices of what that is. And, uh, elk's my favorite. Thank you for that. (laughs) I mean, I'm still, I still have some of it. It's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 I got more if you want more.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:36 Yeah. Oh, I'll take it. No, no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 All right. (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:39 It's the best.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 Well, I wanna try some of the way you cook it. I want, I wanna have you cook some of that elk.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:44 I'd love to do that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 We gotta, yeah, we gotta make that happen-

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 ... one of these days.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 I would love to see your method and what the, the difference is. Um, I learned how to do it from Chad Ward.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 He's a world champion barbecue guy.

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Uh, Whiskey Bent BBQ-

Adam Perry Lang 1:01:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 ... on, uh, Instagram. Whiskey... Is it BBQ? Whiskey Bent BBQ, I think. Uh, Chad's a great guy and, uh, I've been with him in camp on several hunting trips where he's cooked for, uh, Traeger. Like Traeger will hire-

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 ... him to come and, and cook for us and it's incredible. And this, that's the mess- method that I learned-

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 ... from him is that, that reverse sear method.

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:18 Yeah, and it's incredible. I mean, you can go to all different chefs and-

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:21 ... they'll get to the same place taking different paths and they'll get there. For me, it's like fishing, you know. It's like which fly, like, you know, which fly do you choose? Like fine, you know, whatever the hatch is. But it's oftentimes it's the fly that you believe in most that is gonna catch the fish. I mean, okay, I'm drawing a terrible analogy here.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 I know what you're saying.

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:40 But-

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 The confidence that you have in it, right?

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:41 Yeah, 'cause confidence, you're gonna fish it harder, you're gonna believe in it, and, you know, you embrace it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:02:46 And a lot of that has to do with success in cooking. You know, you have to believe in what you're doing. I, there's some, obviously there's some metrics involved, but a master like that guy, for example, um, I can't refute it. At the end of the day, it's fantastic. I get there a different way. You know, maybe there's subtle differences. Maybe mine's better, maybe it's not. I don't care.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 Well, I don't even think better is the way to put it.

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:06 That's right. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 It's just they're, they're different and what, what do, what do you prefer? Now, what do, how do you feel about sous vide?

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:13 Um, I think it has its place, but it's not the answer. You know, for me, um, you know, certain types of proteins like shellfish, it's, it's a godsend.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Shellfish?

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Like what, which-

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:24 Lobster tails or-

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Really?

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:25 ... shrimp or anything like that 'cause the protein there, it's so delicate and if you can go slow, like Thomas Keller has a fantastic recipe, butter-poaching lobster tails in sous vide. And it just cooks it so that it's super tender and it's, it's not tough and then after-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Oh, so you vacuum seal it with the butter?

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:42 With the butter.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 Ooh.

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:43 And some aromatics.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 I wanna cook that right now.

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:45 It's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 That sounds incredible.

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:46 And then take it out, you can kinda like toast it on the grill lightly or put it in a pan.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 Oh.

Adam Perry Lang 1:03:50 It's (laughs) it's something else.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 Oh. N- yeah, um, my friend Forrest Go, Forrest Galante, he's a, a biologist and he goes, uh, off of, um, Santa Barbara.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 He goes out there and, and, and catches 'em and he gave me a couple of them.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:06 So you've never done it with the butter and the...

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 No, no, never done it sous vide.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:09 Oh. I'm gonna ch- it's gonna change your life.

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Yeah, I've only done it, um, on a grill. I've only done it when it was delicious. I cooked, he gave me four lobster tails-

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 ... that he captured himself.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 They were delicious, but I cooked them on a grill. I just followed a, a recipe that I found and with butter and paprika and a couple different things.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 Garlic.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:26 Next time, put that in a bag, seal it-

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:28 ... and follow, follow the time sequence, take it out, and then kiss it on the grill. You're gonna, you're gonna be blown away.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 So what other th- shellfish is good? Is scallops good using that method?

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:36 Scallops is good, good with sous vide, but, you know, for me, scallops, I mean, particularly if they're fresh, I mean, I'd rather kind of just cook them in a pan.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:45 Um, there's something about that particular, the cell structure in the scallop that I want just, you know, charred in a pan and still just like almost like a bit raw.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 There's a sweet spot with scallops, right?

Adam Perry Lang 1:04:57 Yeah, there's such a sweet spot and, and once you cross the line and they just-

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 Yeah, they get tough and weird-

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:01 It's, it's terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 ... and you kinda ruin it.

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:02 Yeah, it's terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 How do you know when they're ready?

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:05 Um, well, for me, it's a feel.

Joe Rogan 1:05:08 Mm-hmm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:08 Um, and, you know, you wanna kind of feel it so that it, you know, when you touch it, um, it doesn't feel raw, but it starts to give it a slight spring and then you pull it. And then, like I said earlier, it's like you kinda like slide into home. You let that residual heat and that temperature kinda slow down. A lot of times if you're going a bit fast, you take it and then you have like some cold melted butter. Not too cold, still a little bit liquid, and you cook it and then you just dunk it right into the butter and it just-

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 Mm.

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:37 ... arrests the cooking and then you have it there and like then the guests come and then all you, all you have to do is just like heat it up a little bit and then it goes.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Oh, so complicated.

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:46 It's not though.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:47 (laughs) I'm sure that-

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 But, I mean, it's like you gotta dial it in, you know? The, it's food-

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:53 It depends on what you want.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:05:54 You know, the end result. So like, you know, you have guests coming over, you wanna enjoy your time with them. You know, you figure out little tricks what you can get away with and what you can do, so.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 My friend, Tom Papa, who you met earlier-

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 ... who's getting tested for COVID-

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 ... along with you, when ... He, uh, has been in here before. He brings this homemade sourdough bread that's just sensational. And I'm not a bread guy, I don't eat a lot of bread. I eat very little of it, in fact, especially now. But when I eat his, like my God, it's so good and he's, he keeps saying, "I'm getting better every time I do it." I'm like, "It's fucking bread."

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:26 No.

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 How are you getting better? (laughs)

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:27 No, he's getting better. It's for real.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 I know, I get it.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:29 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 I'm just being an asshole.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:30 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 But he's my friend.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 I'm just fucking around, but he's, he, it's similar in a lot of ways to your dry aging too because he has this starter, which is a living thing.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 It's, and, you know, uh, his starter is I don't know how many years old. It's old as fuck though, but he's been using this same starter that he got from somebody else and-Just... It-

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:52 It brings soul to it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:53 It brings soul to the food-

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Yes.

Adam Perry Lang 1:06:54 ... you know, for me. And that, and that connection that you have to the food is gonna also, you know, make you care about it more while you cook it. And, you know, it's not just a commodity where like, "Okay, order me 16 steaks in a box," you know-

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:06 ... and bring it in. I mean, you can push out food like that. There's a place like... There's a place for that in this world.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Well, what I'm really hoping, really hoping, is that some sort of a rapid test for COVID... Not even like the 15-minute one that we came o- 'Cause I heard something about some saliva test that they're trying to develop that's extremely rapid. That would be amazing if you could just test people right before they come into your restaurant-

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:31 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 ... and no one has to worry about shit.

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 You know?

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:33 We're gearing up for what it's, what the new world is gonna be.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:36 Temperature, you know, everybody gets their temperature taken, you know, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 But that's not good enough. See, the temperature thing is not good enough because if you're asymptomatic but you're still spreading it, like, why are we pretending? Like, that's avoiding science. We need to find out whether or not people actually have it. This temperature thing is just whether or not you're sick.

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:53 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 It doesn't mean you don't have it-

Adam Perry Lang 1:07:55 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 ... if your, if your temperature is low. It's, it's real weird.

Adam Perry Lang 1:08:00 And that's what's being... That's what's gonna be mandated on us. I mean, there's a certain series of things that we're gonna have-

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:08:06 ... to and it's, you know, nobody knows for sure or whatnot but, uh, you know, who knows?

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 Well, at a certain point and time, I think we really need to make a decision as to whether or not we're just gonna allow this to take over our world or whether we're going to do what we can do to protect the sick, you know, if you're in contact with people that have a, a weakened immune system, you're gonna have to have a different life than someone who doesn't. If you're a person with a weakened immune system-

Adam Perry Lang 1:08:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 ... you're gonna have a different life. If you're an older person, you're gonna have to have a different life. But for the vast majority of us, this, this... We're gonna have to give people the freedom to make choices and to, to do what they want to do with their own life and their own health. If you're giving people the freedom to eat terrible food, look, heart attacks are killing people as quickly as anything.

Adam Perry Lang 1:09:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Right? Cancer is killing people as quick as anything. F- a- Cigarettes kill a half a million people a year. There's no government mandate that's trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes. In fact, there's not a single word ever spoken about it in presidential camp- campaigns, in governor, governor campaigns, congressional campaigns. No one's out there trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes. But yet, it's killing a half a million people-

Adam Perry Lang 1:09:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 ... every year in this country alone. We're so strange in a... And I understand, cigarettes is a choice and infectious diseases are not, we're worried about protecting people who, uh, have these compromised immune systems. But it's not most people, you know. The, the vast majority of people that are gonna get this are not... It's not gonna be fatal. We have to figure out how to protect the people that are high-risk. But to quarantine the whole country, it just seems like maybe it was a good move to do initially but we can't sustain that. So now we have to figure out how to move forward and there's all these protests all over California now. I'm sure you've seen it-

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 ... in Orange County, in San- in, uh, Huntington Beach and there's counties in Northern California that are like, "We're opening up everything. We're gonna open up restaurants. We're opening up bars. We're going back to business." Texas is basically back to business. Montana is doing the same. And, you know, they have a modified approach to dealing this and we're gonna have to figure it out on the long way but I just don't want us to lose... I, I, I don't want us to lose any people but I certainly don't want us to lose restaurants either. I don't want us to lose bars. I don't want us to lose comedy clubs. I don't want us to lose small businesses that are crippled by this.

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:39 I mean, what is the world even gonna look like? I mean, here we are, like, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 Yeah.

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:43 ... you, you talk about a comedy club, like, how do you even, like, okay-

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 I don't know.

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:46 ... six feet apart and then-

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 Doesn't make sense.

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:48 ... there's a certain energy in the room. Like, what type of world do we have, you know, in front of us the way it's slated right now?

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 Right.

Adam Perry Lang 1:10:55 We don't even know.

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 And what kind of government overreach are we gonna have where people are gonna come in and police this? You know, like what... I mean, there's no real science to that either by the way. You