Joe Rogan Experience #1470 - Elon Musk

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Welcome back. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Welcome back.

   2. EMElon Musk0:02

      Here we go again.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Great to see you. And congratulations.

   4. EMElon Musk0:04

      (laughs) Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Um, you will never forget what is going on in the world when you think about when your child is born. You will know-

   6. EMElon Musk0:11

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      ... for the rest of this child's life, you were born during a weird time.

   8. EMElon Musk0:16

      That's for sure.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      (laughs) That is for sure. The, probably the weirdest that I can remember.

   10. EMElon Musk0:22

       Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, and he was born on, uh, May the 4th.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       And, uh, that's hilarious too.

   12. EMElon Musk0:27

       Yeah. It's great. He's-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       May the 4th be with him.

   14. EMElon Musk0:28

       Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Has to be.

   16. EMElon Musk0:30

       I hope... Hopefully. I sure hope so.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Perfect.

   18. EMElon Musk0:31

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       I mean, that was the perfect day for you.

   20. EMElon Musk0:33

       I'm... (claps hands) Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       And then, what, how do you say the name?

   22. EMElon Musk0:37

       (laughs) Well, uh, (stuttering)

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Is it a placeholder?

   24. EMElon Musk0:41

       Yeah. First of all, my partner's the one that, uh, actually mostly came up with the name.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Congratulations to her.

   26. EMElon Musk0:46

       Yeah. Yeah. She's great at names. Um, so I mean, it's just X, the letter X. Um, and then the AE is, like, pronounced ash. Um...

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       (laughs)

   28. EMElon Musk0:59

       Yeah. And then, uh, A12, A12 is my contribution.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Oh, why A12?

   30. EMElon Musk1:05

       Uh, Archangel-12, the precursor to the SR-71. Coolest plane ever.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   5%? …

   1. EMElon Musk15:00

      building a house, even if it was a really great house, still is not a good use of time relative to developing the rockets necessary to get us to Mars and helping solve sustainable energy. Uh, SpaceX and Tesla are by far, you know, by the, the most amount of, like, brain cycles. Um, you know, B- The Boring Company does not take, you know, it's like less than 1% of brain cycles. And, um, and then there's Neuralink, which is, I don't know, maybe it's like 5%. And then-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:36

      5%?

   3. EMElon Musk15:37

      Yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:37

      That's, that's a good chunk.

   5. EMElon Musk15:38

      It's a good chunk. Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      We were talking about that last time, and you were trying to figure out when it was actually going to go live, when it's actually going to be available. Are you testing on people right now?

   7. EMElon Musk15:50

      No, we're not testing on people yet, but I, I think it won't be too long. I think we may be able to implant a Neuralink in less than a year in, in a person, I think.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:06

      Phew. And when you do this, is there any test that you have to do before you do something like this to, to see what percentage of people's bodies are going to reject these things? Is it pu- is it... Is there a potential for rejection?

   9. EMElon Musk16:20

      It's, it's a very low potential for rejection. I mean, you can think of it like people put in, you know, heart monitors and, um, you know, things for ep- epileptic seizures and deep brain stimulation. Um, obviously, like, you know, artificial hips and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Right.

   11. EMElon Musk16:38

       ... knees and that kind of thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       Yeah.

   13. EMElon Musk16:40

       So the, the probability of... I mean, like, so it's well known, like, what will cause rejection, what, what will not. Um, it's definitely harder when you've got something that is, uh, um, re- sort of reading and writing neurons that's generating a current pulse and reading current pulses. That's, that's a little harder, um, um, than, than a, than a, than, say, a passive device. But it's still, you know, very doable and, um, yeah. There, there are people who have primitive devices in, in their brains right now.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       What kind of devices?

   15. EMElon Musk17:17

       Oh, like deep, deep brain stimulation is... For, I think for Parkinson's is... Like, has really changed people's lives in, in a big way. Um, which is kind of remarkable because we're... It, it, it kind of, like, zaps your brain. Um, it's like kicking the TV type of thing.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       (laughs)

   17. EMElon Musk17:35

       Um, and you think like, "Man, ki- kicking the TV shouldn't work."

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:38

       It does sometimes.

   19. EMElon Musk17:39

       Yeah, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       The old, old TVs.

   21. EMElon Musk17:41

       It did.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       My grandpa used to slap the top.

   23. EMElon Musk17:43

       For sure. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       And it would work sometimes.

   25. EMElon Musk17:45

       Yeah. So there's deep brain stimulation, uh, implanted devices in the brain that, uh, have changed people's lives for the better, like fundamentally. Um-

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:53

       Well, let's talk about what you can talk about to what Neuralink is because the last time you were here, I really couldn't discuss it. And then there was a, I guess, a press release or something that sort of outlined-

   27. EMElon Musk18:03

       Oh yeah, sure. Sure.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:04

       Yeah, that, that, that happened quite a bit after last time you were here. So what exactly...... is it? How do you do... What, what happens if someone, uh, ultimately does get a Neuralink installed, what will take place?

   29. EMElon Musk18:18

       Well, for version one of the device it would be, um, it basically i- implanted in your skull. So, (laughs) uh, but it would be su- uh, flush with your skull. So you basically, uh, take out a chunk of skull, replace, put, put the Neuralink device in there. Um, you, you put the, the electrode... you'd insert the electrode threads very carefully into the, the brain. Um, and, uh, and then you, you know, stitch it up and, um, and you wouldn't even know that somebody has it. Um, and then it... And so then it, it can interface basically anywhere, any- any, anywhere in your brain. Um, so it could be something that, uh, you know, helps cure, say, uh, eyesight. Like give you... returns your eyesight, even if you've, like, lost your optic nerve type of thing. Uh, could-

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:09

       Really?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   (laughs) …

   1. EMElon Musk30:00

      decompression. You may have... not even have heard all the words correctly, and so communication is difficult. You know, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:10

      (laughs)

   3. EMElon Musk30:11

      It's a cool hand, Luke.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Yes, and there's... (laughs) Great movie.

   5. EMElon Musk30:14

      Yeah, great movie.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      And there, there's an interpretation factor, too. Like, you can choose to interpret...... certain s- series of words in, in different ways and they're dependent upon tone, dependent upon-

   7. EMElon Musk30:27

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:27

      ... social cues, even facial expressions, sarcasm. There's a, there's a lot of variables.

   9. EMElon Musk30:33

      Sarcasm is difficult.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       Yes.

   11. EMElon Musk30:34

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:35

       And so-

   13. EMElon Musk30:36

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       ... one o- one of the things that I, I've said is, like, that there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that, uh, particularly young kids would pick up very quickly. Like, my kids do TikTok and all this jazz and I, I don't know what they're doing. They just know how to do it.

   15. EMElon Musk30:53

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       And they know how to do it really quickly. Like, they learn really quickly and they show me how to edit things and-

   17. EMElon Musk30:57

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       ... it's, if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language, I mean, essentially like a, a Rosetta Stone and something that's done w- that interprets your thoughts and you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation-

   19. EMElon Musk31:16

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       ... with clear, very clear, th- where you know what a person's saying and you can tell them what you're saying and there's no need for noises, no need for mouth noises, no need for-

   21. EMElon Musk31:28

       (laughs) Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       ... these sort of accepted ways that we've, uh, sort of evolved to make sounds that we-

   23. EMElon Musk31:36

       Sure.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       ... all agree, we, through our cultural dictionary and-

   25. EMElon Musk31:39

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:40

       ... we agree are certain. We, we could bypass all that.

   27. EMElon Musk31:42

       Yeah, we could still do it for-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       For fun?

   29. EMElon Musk31:44

       ... sentimental reasons.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       Right. (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. EMElon Musk45:00

      we, we don't ever want everywhere to be the same, for sure. And, and then we, we need some kind of like mind viral immunity. Um...

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. EMElon Musk45:08

      So that, that's, uh, that's a bit concerning.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Mind viral immunity, meaning that once something like Neurolink gets established, the real concern is something that... I mean, you said it's Bluetooth, right? Or-

   5. EMElon Musk45:21

      Sure.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      ... or some future version of that.

   7. EMElon Musk45:23

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:23

      That the idea is that something could possibly get into it, fuck it up.

   9. EMElon Musk45:27

      No, I'm talking about like, uh, somebody... there's some cock-eyed con- concept that, um, that's happe- that happens right, right now.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. EMElon Musk45:38

       You know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       Well, I know there's viruses and embedded chips, right? Like people have-

   13. EMElon Musk45:43

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       ... they have embedded chips and then acquired viruses.

   15. EMElon Musk45:46

       Well, when I'm talking about a mind virus, I'm talking about like a, a, a, a concept-

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Okay.

   17. EMElon Musk45:50

       ... that infects people's minds.

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       Oh.

   19. EMElon Musk45:52

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Okay. Okay. Like, uh, cult thinking or-

   21. EMElon Musk45:57

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       ... some sort of fundamentalism.

   23. EMElon Musk45:59

       Yeah. Just wrongheaded idea that just-

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       Yes.

   25. EMElon Musk46:01

       ... goes viral in a, in an idea sense.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Mm-hmm. Well, that is, that, that is a problem too, right? If someone can manipulate that technology to make something appear logical or rational.

   27. EMElon Musk46:16

       Yeah. Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       That, would it, would that be an issue too with... this is a very have versus have not issue, right? Once this thing... if, if, if this really does... I mean, initially, it's going to help people with, with injuries and... but you, you said ultimately it could lead to this spectacular cognitive change.

   29. EMElon Musk46:35

       Yes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:36

       But the people that first get it should have a s- a massive advantage over people that don't have it yet.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   They didn't think that…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      They didn't think that this was the case, though, when they first started to lock down the country. Do you think that it's a, a situation where once they've proceeded in a certain way, it's very difficult to correct course?

   2. EMElon Musk1:00:16

      That's almost like people really wanted a panic. They, you know... So it's quite, quite crazy. Um...

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

      But in some places a panic is deserved, right? Like, if you're-

   4. EMElon Musk1:00:28

      Yes.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

      ... in the ICU in Manhattan and people are dying left and right, and everyone's on intubators and it's... I- i- i- it seems like...... when you see all these people on ventilators and so many of them are dying, and you see these nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick, in some places that fear is justified. But then in other places, you're, you're reading these stories about hospitals that are, uh, essentially half empty. They're, they're having to furlough doctors-

   6. EMElon Musk1:00:57

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

      ... and nurses because there's no work for them.

   8. EMElon Musk1:01:01

      Most of the hospitals in the United States right now are half empty. Or in some cases, they're at 30% capacity.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

      And is this because they've decided to forego elective procedures and, and, and normal things that people would have to go to the hospital for?

   10. EMElon Musk1:01:17

       Yes. I mean, and we're, and we're not talking about just... some of these elective procedures are quite important.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:22

       Yes.

   12. EMElon Musk1:01:22

       Like, it's like you have a bad heart-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       Fallbladder disease. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

   14. EMElon Musk1:01:25

       Yeah. And you need a, you know-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

       Mm-hmm.

   16. EMElon Musk1:01:27

       ... triple bypass. It's, like, sort of elective, but if you don't get it done in time, it's, you're gonna die.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:33

       Yeah.

   18. EMElon Musk1:01:33

       It's-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:34

       Elective's a weird word.

   20. EMElon Musk1:01:35

       (laughs) Yeah, elective... It's not like, "Hey, I, uh, I wa- I wanna..." It's not like plastic surgery or something like that (laughs) .

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       Right, right, right, right, right.

   22. EMElon Musk1:01:40

       Like, um, it, it, it's more like, like my, my hip is... I'm in extreme pain because my, my hip's blown out, or my knee, and I, I don't wanna go to the hospital. I can't go to the hospital to... You know, people in extreme pain, people that need a kidney (laughs) . You know, like, like, people that, that have, like, quite serious issues that are choosing not to go v- out of fear. Um, so I think it's, it's a problem.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       I-

   24. EMElon Musk1:02:02

       It's not good.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

       It seems like the state of public perception is shifting.

   26. EMElon Musk1:02:06

       It is.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:07

       Like, people are taking some deep breaths and relaxing. And, and because of the statistics of... I mean, and, and essentially across the board, it's being recognized that it's not as fatal as we thought it was. Still dangerous, still worse than the flu, but not as bad as we thought or, or we feared it could be.

   28. EMElon Musk1:02:28

       I mean, obje- objectively, the mortality is, is, is much lower. Like, at least a factor of 10, maybe a factor of 50 lower than initially thought.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

       Do you think that the current way we're handling this, the social distancing, the masks, the locking down, is it... does this make sense? Is it adequate? Or, or do you think that we should move back to at least closer to where we used to be?

   30. EMElon Musk1:03:00

       Well, I think proper hygiene is a good thing no matter what.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:24:45

   Sure. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      because of their own shortcomings and are they, are they projecting this into the story?

   2. EMElon Musk1:15:04

      Sure.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:04

      It's so hard.

   4. EMElon Musk1:15:06

      Yeah, I think like maybe just trying to find individual reporters that you think are good and-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:10

      Yes.

   6. EMElon Musk1:15:10

      ... and kind of following them as opposed to the publication.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:13

      I go with whatever Matt Taibbi says.

   8. EMElon Musk1:15:15

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:16

      I trust him more than anybody.

   10. EMElon Musk1:15:17

       All right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15:18

       Matt Taibbi's onto something. I just... He's... As, as far as investigative reporters in particular, the way he reported the savings and loan crisis, the way he reports everything, I just, I just listen to him above most, above most. He's my go-to guy.

   12. EMElon Musk1:15:33

       All right, I'll check it out.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:15:34

       Oh, his Rolling Stones articles are amaze... His stuff on the savings and loan crisis is just like, what in the fuck?

   14. EMElon Musk1:15:39

       Sure.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:15:39

       And, you know, and he wasn't... You know, he's not an economist by any stretch of the imagination, so he had to really sort of deeply embed himself in that world to try to understand it and to be able to report on it.

   16. EMElon Musk1:15:49

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:15:50

       And with also, with a humorous flair.

   18. EMElon Musk1:15:52

       Oh, now, that's nice.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:53

       Yeah.

   20. EMElon Musk1:15:54

       Um, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:15:58

       But there's not that many of them. There's...

   22. EMElon Musk1:16:00

       No.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:16:00

       It's hard. And not, not in a location where like we are no bullshit.

   24. EMElon Musk1:16:04

       Sure.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:16:05

       You know, wearenobullshit.com. Like the one place where you can say, "This is what we know."

   26. EMElon Musk1:16:10

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:16:10

       "This is what we don't know. This is what we think." Not, "This person's wrong and here's why." Like, ugh, goddammit. You know, I can't. You, you don't know. There's a lot of stuff that is-

   28. EMElon Musk1:16:21

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:16:21

       ... open to interpretation.

   30. EMElon Musk1:16:23

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:00:08