Joe Rogan Experience #1470 - Elon Musk

1. 0:00 – 1:37

   Elon’s new baby, the May 4th birthday, and decoding the name “X Æ A-12”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Welcome back.

   2. EMElon Musk0:02

      Here we go again.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Great to see you. And congratulations.

   4. EMElon Musk0:04

      (laughs) Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Um, you will never forget what is going on in the world when you think about when your child is born. You will know-

   6. EMElon Musk0:11

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      ... for the rest of this child's life, you were born during a weird time.

   8. EMElon Musk0:16

      That's for sure.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      (laughs) That is for sure. The, probably the weirdest that I can remember.

   10. EMElon Musk0:22

       Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, and he was born on, uh, May the 4th.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       And, uh, that's hilarious too.

   12. EMElon Musk0:27

       Yeah. It's great. He's-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       May the 4th be with him.

   14. EMElon Musk0:28

       Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Has to be.

   16. EMElon Musk0:30

       I hope... Hopefully. I sure hope so.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Perfect.

   18. EMElon Musk0:31

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       I mean, that was the perfect day for you.

   20. EMElon Musk0:33

       I'm... (claps hands) Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       And then, what, how do you say the name?

   22. EMElon Musk0:37

       (laughs) Well, uh, (stuttering)

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Is it a placeholder?

   24. EMElon Musk0:41

       Yeah. First of all, my partner's the one that, uh, actually mostly came up with the name.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Congratulations to her.

   26. EMElon Musk0:46

       Yeah. Yeah. She's great at names. Um, so I mean, it's just X, the letter X. Um, and then the AE is, like, pronounced ash. Um...

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       (laughs)

   28. EMElon Musk0:59

       Yeah. And then, uh, A12, A12 is my contribution.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       Oh, why A12?

   30. EMElon Musk1:05

       Uh, Archangel-12, the precursor to the SR-71. Coolest plane ever.
2. 1:37 – 5:27

   Babies, brains, and how AI neural nets relate to human development

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:37

      Yeah. Pretty great. Um, so is it, uh, does it feel strange to have a child while this craziness is going... Does it feel... You've had children before. Is this any weirder?

   2. EMElon Musk1:49

      Uh, it's... Actually, I think it's better, uh, being older and having a kid. I appreciate it more.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:56

      Mm-hmm.

   4. EMElon Musk1:56

      Yeah. Um, k-... Babies are awesome.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:59

      They are pretty awesome.

   6. EMElon Musk2:00

      They are awesome. Yeah. And-

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:01

      When I didn't, when I didn't have m- any of my own, I would see other people's kids, and I didn't not like them.

   8. EMElon Musk2:06

      Sure.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      But I wasn't drawn to them.

   10. EMElon Musk2:08

       Sure.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       But now, when I see little people's kids, I'm like, "Oh." I think of them in like, these little love packages.

   12. EMElon Musk2:13

       Yeah, the little love bugs.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       Yeah. It's just you, you think of them differently when you see them come out and then grow and then eventually start talking to you. Like, your whole idea of what a baby is, is very different.

   14. EMElon Musk2:23

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:23

       So now, as you, you know, get older and get to appreciate it as a mature, fully-formed adult, it must be really pretty wonderful.

   16. EMElon Musk2:32

       Yeah. P- Wonderful. It's great. But babies are awesome.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       They are.

   18. EMElon Musk2:35

       Uh, uh, yeah. That's, uh, that's great. Um, yeah. Um, I mean, also, I've, I've, I've spent a lot of time on AI and n- neural nets, and so you can sort of see the, kind of, the br- brain develop, which is... You know, w- an, uh, uh, an AI neural, neural net is trying to simulate what a brain does, basically. Um, and you can sort of see the... It, it learning very quickly. Uh, you know, it's just... Wow.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       See things fi-... So you're talking about the neural net. You're not talking about a, an actual baby.

   20. EMElon Musk3:07

       I'm talking about actual, an actual baby.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:09

       But both of them.

   22. EMElon Musk3:10

       Yes. But, uh, the word neural net comes from the br- the brain. It's like a net of neurons. So, you know, it's like the... Yeah. Humans are the, you know, original gangs to the neural net.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:24

       (laughs)

   24. EMElon Musk3:26

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       That's a great way to put it.

   26. EMElon Musk3:27

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       So when you're programming artificial intelligence, or you're working with artificial intelligence, are, are they specifically trying to mimic the developmental process of a human brain?

   28. EMElon Musk3:41

       In a lot of ways. N- there's some ways that are different. Um, you know, an, an analogy that's often used is like, you know, we, we don't make a submarine swim like a fish.

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Mm-hmm.

   30. EMElon Musk3:51

       Um, but we take the principles of, of how, you- you know, what, what a... Of hydrodynamics and apply them to a submarine.
3. 5:27 – 11:09

   Selling houses and minimizing possessions: wealth, “attack vectors,” and meaning

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:27

      Now, you're in the middle of this, uh, this strange time where you're selling your houses. You say you don't want any material possessions. And I've been seeing all that, and I've been really excited to talk to you about this.

   2. EMElon Musk5:39

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:39

      'Cause it's an interesting thing to come from a guy like yourself. Like, why are you doing that?

   4. EMElon Musk5:44

      I'm slightly sad about it, actually. But-

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:48

      Well, th- if you're sad about it, why are you doing it?

   6. EMElon Musk5:54

      I think th- I think possessions kind of weigh you down. They're n- they're kind of an attack vector.... you know? People say, "Hey, billionaire, you got all this stuff?" Like, "Well, uh, now that I don't have stuff, now what's, what are you gonna do?"

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:07

      (laughs) Attack vector meaning like people target it?

   8. EMElon Musk6:10

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:11

      Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. But you're obviously gonna... So you're gonna rent a place?

   10. EMElon Musk6:16

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:17

       Okay.

   12. EMElon Musk6:19

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       And get rid of everything-

   14. EMElon Musk6:20

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:20

       ... except clothes?

   16. EMElon Musk6:21

       No, I said like almost everything. So it's like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       Keep a couple Teslas.

   18. EMElon Musk6:25

       Yeah, sure I'll save a Tesla.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:26

       You have to.

   20. EMElon Musk6:27

       Kinda have to.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       Yeah.

   22. EMElon Musk6:28

       Test the product and stuff. Um, yeah, the things that have sentimental value, for sure, keeping those. You know? Um. Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:38

       So do you feel like there's-

   24. EMElon Musk6:40

       I mean, what's, what's the worst that could happen to me? I'll be fine.

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       Y- yeah. You could always buy more stuff if you don't like it.

   26. EMElon Musk6:45

       Suppose so.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:46

       Yeah. I mean, from the money that you sell all your stuff, you could buy new stuff. But do you, you feel like people define you by the fact that you're, you're wealthy and that they-

   28. EMElon Musk6:57

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       ... define you in a pejorative way?

   30. EMElon Musk6:59

       For sure. I mean, not e- not everyone, but-
4. 11:09 – 15:23

   Gene Wilder’s house, privacy problems, and choosing Mars over a dream home

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:09

      Don't you have Gene Wilder's house?

   2. EMElon Musk11:11

      I do.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:12

      That's amazing.

   4. EMElon Musk11:12

      It's awesome.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:13

      Wow.

   6. EMElon Musk11:13

      Yeah, it's r- it's j- exactly what you'd expect.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:17

      Did you request that the buyer not fuck it up?

   8. EMElon Musk11:19

      Yeah, that's a requirement.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:20

      Oh, oh, a requirement?

   10. EMElon Musk11:21

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:21

       That's, that's a good requirement.

   12. EMElon Musk11:23

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       In that hou- in that case, in that house.

   14. EMElon Musk11:25

       Yeah. It'll probably sell for less, but still I don't care.

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:27

       Ah, he's a legend.

   16. EMElon Musk11:29

       Yeah, he's awesome.

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:29

       You'd want his soul.

   18. EMElon Musk11:30

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       You'd want his essence-

   20. EMElon Musk11:32

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:32

       ... in the building.

   22. EMElon Musk11:33

       It's r- and it's there. That's a real quirky-

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:36

       Is it?

   24. EMElon Musk11:36

       ... quirky house. Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:37

       What, what makes you say it's there? Like, what do you get out of it?

   26. EMElon Musk11:41

       (sighs) Um, I mean, a- all the, all the cabinets are like hand- handmade, and, and they're like odd shapes and th- there's like doors to nowhere and strange like corridors and tunnels and-

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:56

       Really?

   28. EMElon Musk11:57

       ... odd, odd paintings on the wall and, um, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:01

       Did you ever live in it?

   30. EMElon Musk12:02

       It's very quirky. (laughs) I did live in it briefly, yeah.
5. 15:23 – 17:53

   Neuralink timeline, safety, and the first human implants

   1. EMElon Musk15:23

      you know, B- The Boring Company does not take, you know, it's like less than 1% of brain cycles. And, um, and then there's Neuralink, which is, I don't know, maybe it's like 5%. And then-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:36

      5%?

   3. EMElon Musk15:37

      Yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:37

      That's, that's a good chunk.

   5. EMElon Musk15:38

      It's a good chunk. Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      We were talking about that last time, and you were trying to figure out when it was actually going to go live, when it's actually going to be available. Are you testing on people right now?

   7. EMElon Musk15:50

      No, we're not testing on people yet, but I, I think it won't be too long. I think we may be able to implant a Neuralink in less than a year in, in a person, I think.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:06

      Phew. And when you do this, is there any test that you have to do before you do something like this to, to see what percentage of people's bodies are going to reject these things? Is it pu- is it... Is there a potential for rejection?

   9. EMElon Musk16:20

      It's, it's a very low potential for rejection. I mean, you can think of it like people put in, you know, heart monitors and, um, you know, things for ep- epileptic seizures and deep brain stimulation. Um, obviously, like, you know, artificial hips and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Right.

   11. EMElon Musk16:38

       ... knees and that kind of thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       Yeah.

   13. EMElon Musk16:40

       So the, the probability of... I mean, like, so it's well known, like, what will cause rejection, what, what will not. Um, it's definitely harder when you've got something that is, uh, um, re- sort of reading and writing neurons that's generating a current pulse and reading current pulses. That's, that's a little harder, um, um, than, than a, than a, than, say, a passive device. But it's still, you know, very doable and, um, yeah. There, there are people who have primitive devices in, in their brains right now.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       What kind of devices?

   15. EMElon Musk17:17

       Oh, like deep, deep brain stimulation is... For, I think for Parkinson's is... Like, has really changed people's lives in, in a big way. Um, which is kind of remarkable because we're... It, it, it kind of, like, zaps your brain. Um, it's like kicking the TV type of thing.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       (laughs)

   17. EMElon Musk17:35

       Um, and you think like, "Man, ki- kicking the TV shouldn't work."

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:38

       It does sometimes.

   19. EMElon Musk17:39

       Yeah, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       The old, old TVs.

   21. EMElon Musk17:41

       It did.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       My grandpa used to slap the top.

   23. EMElon Musk17:43

       For sure. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       And it would work sometimes.

   25. EMElon Musk17:45

       Yeah. So there's deep brain stimulation, uh, implanted devices in the brain that, uh, have changed people's lives for the better, like fundamentally. Um-

6. 17:53 – 23:05

   How Neuralink works: skull implant, electrode threads, robot surgery, and reversibility

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:53

      Well, let's talk about what you can talk about to what Neuralink is because the last time you were here, I really couldn't discuss it. And then there was a, I guess, a press release or something that sort of outlined-

   2. EMElon Musk18:03

      Oh yeah, sure. Sure.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:04

      Yeah, that, that, that happened quite a bit after last time you were here. So what exactly...... is it? How do you do... What, what happens if someone, uh, ultimately does get a Neuralink installed, what will take place?

   4. EMElon Musk18:18

      Well, for version one of the device it would be, um, it basically i- implanted in your skull. So, (laughs) uh, but it would be su- uh, flush with your skull. So you basically, uh, take out a chunk of skull, replace, put, put the Neuralink device in there. Um, you, you put the, the electrode... you'd insert the electrode threads very carefully into the, the brain. Um, and, uh, and then you, you know, stitch it up and, um, and you wouldn't even know that somebody has it. Um, and then it... And so then it, it can interface basically anywhere, any- any, anywhere in your brain. Um, so it could be something that, uh, you know, helps cure, say, uh, eyesight. Like give you... returns your eyesight, even if you've, like, lost your optic nerve type of thing. Uh, could-

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:09

      Really?

   6. EMElon Musk19:10

      Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Hearing, obviously. Um, I mean, pretty much anything that w- where... that, that... It could, in principle, fix almost anything that is wrong with the brain. Um, and it could, it could, um, restore, uh, limb functionality. So if you've got, uh, i- interface into the motor cortex and then an implant that's, say, uh, that's like a micro-controller, uh, in, in, in your muscle groups, uh, you, you could then create a sort of a neural shunt that restores somebody who's a quadriplegic to full functionality. Like, they can walk around, be normal.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:51

      Whoa.

   8. EMElon Musk19:51

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:52

      So-

   10. EMElon Musk19:52

       Maybe slightly better.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:54

       Slightly better?

   12. EMElon Musk19:55

       O- over time, yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       You mean with future iterations?

   14. EMElon Musk19:58

       Like the, you know, Six Billion Dollar Man.

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:00

       Right.

   16. EMElon Musk20:00

       Although in his days that would... That doesn't seem like much.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:02

       That's pretty cheap. (laughs)

   18. EMElon Musk20:03

       (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:04

       Six Billion Dollar Man.

   20. EMElon Musk20:05

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:05

       So the, the hole would be small-... How big would the hole be that you have to drill and then replace with this piece? It's only one hole?

   22. EMElon Musk20:15

       Well, um, yeah, the device we're working on right now is about, I'd say about an inch in diameter. Um, and... Y- your skull's pretty thick, by the way. So skulls are-

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:26

       Mine is, for sure.

   24. EMElon Musk20:27

       It might actually literally be (laughs) .

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:29

       (laughs)

   26. EMElon Musk20:30

       Um, I mean, if you're a big, if you're a big guy, your skull is actually fairly thick. Um, skulls like... it's like seven to 14 millimeters.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       Mm.

   28. EMElon Musk20:38

       Um, so-

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:39

       That's probably a couple inches.

   30. EMElon Musk20:40

       A half inch.
7. 23:05 – 25:44

   Medical and cognitive potential: restoring senses, movement, memory, and stopping seizures

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:05

      And what is the... Besides r- restoring limb function and eyesight and hearing, which are all amazing, is there, there any cognitive benefits that you anticipate from something like this?

   2. EMElon Musk23:16

      Uh, yeah. I mean, you could for sure, um, uh... I mean, basically it's a generalized, um, sort of, uh, thing for, for fixing any kind of brain injury in, in principle. Like if you... Or if you've got, like, like severe epilepsy or something like that. It could, it could just, it could just sort of stop the epi- epilepsy from occurring. Like it could detect it in real time and then fire a counter pulse and stop the epilepsy. Um, if, um... I mean, there's, there's a whole range of brain injuries. Like p- people... Somebody gets a stroke, they could lose the ability to speak, um, that, that'll, that could also be fixed. So if you've got like stroke damage or if you lose, say, muscle control over part of your face or something like that, I think... And then when, when, when you get old, you tend to, um... if you get like-... you know, Alzheimer's or something like that. Then you lose memory, and th- this could help you with r- you know, restoring your memory, that kind of thing.

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:20

      Restoring memory. And what, what is happening that's allowing it to do that? Like, the wires, these, these small wires-

   4. EMElon Musk24:26

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:26

      ... stimulating these areas of the brain, and then is it that the areas of the brain are... Th- they're, they're losing some sort of electrical force? Like, what is, what is happening?

   6. EMElon Musk24:34

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:35

      Yeah?

   8. EMElon Musk24:35

      So it's, it's, it's like, it's like... Think of it just like a bunch of circuits, and there's some, like, circuits that are broken, and we can, like, uh, f- fix those circuits, uh, to substitute for those cir- circuits.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:48

      And so a specific frequency will go through this?

   10. EMElon Musk24:51

       Yeah, just, um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:52

       Specific... In that, uh, uh... Would... Is the process figuring out how much or how little has to be?

   12. EMElon Musk24:59

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       How, how much bl- these areas of the brain have to be juiced up?

   14. EMElon Musk25:03

       Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot of work to do. So when I say, you know, we got a shot at probably putting it in, in, in a person in, you know, a y- uh, within a, a year, I think... That, that's what, that's what... That's exactly what I mean. I think we, we have a chance of putting it in, in someone and having them, having them s- be healthy and, and restoring some functionality that they've, they've lost.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       The fear is that eventually you're gonna have to cut the whole top of someone's head off and put a new top-

   16. EMElon Musk25:31

       Sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:32

       ... with a whole bunch of wires if you wanna get, you know, the real turbocharged version, the P100D-

   18. EMElon Musk25:41

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:41

       ... of, of brain stimulation.

8. 25:44 – 28:49

   AI symbiosis and high-bandwidth communication: “you wouldn’t need to talk”

   1. EMElon Musk25:44

      It... I mean, ultimately, if you, if you wanna go with full AI symbiosis, you'll probably wanna do something like that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:53

      Symbiosis is a scary word when it comes to AI.

   3. EMElon Musk25:57

      It's optional.

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:58

      (laughs)

   5. NANarrator26:01

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:01

      I would hope so.

   7. EMElon Musk26:02

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:03

      It's just... I mean, once you enjoy the Dr. Manhattan lifestyle, once you, once you become a god, seems v- very, very unlikely you're gonna wanna go back to being stupid again. I mean, you, you, you literally could fundamentally change the way-

   9. EMElon Musk26:18

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:18

       ... human beings interface with each other.

   11. EMElon Musk26:20

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       Yes?

   13. EMElon Musk26:22

       You wouldn't need to talk.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:23

       (laughs)

   15. NANarrator26:24

       (laughs) (banging sound)

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       I'm so scared of that but so excited about it at the same time. Is that weird?

   17. EMElon Musk26:32

       Y- yeah. I mean, the, the... I think this is one of the paths to, um... (sighs) y- you know, like, think like wha- what are... Wh- what... Like, AI is getting better and better, um, so now let's just, you know, sort of like a, a benign AI scenario. Uh, ev- even in a benign scenario, we're kind of left behind, you know. We're, we're, we're not, we're not along for the ride, um, or just too dumb.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:57

       Right. (laughs)

   19. EMElon Musk26:58

       So... So, so how do you go along for the ride? Um, yeah, it's like if you can't beat them, join them, so.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       (laughs)

   21. EMElon Musk27:05

       Um...

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:06

       Mm-hmm.

   23. EMElon Musk27:06

       And we're, we're already, we're already a cyborg to some degree, right, because you've got your phone, you got your laptop, your-

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:12

       Glasses.

   25. EMElon Musk27:13

       Yeah, yeah, got your-

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:13

       Yeah.

   27. EMElon Musk27:14

       ... you know, electronic devices.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:15

       Sure, yeah.

   29. EMElon Musk27:16

       Um, and, um, I mean, we're... Today, if you've... Your, your phone... If you'll... If you don't bring your phone along, it's like you have missing limb syndrome. It's like, you know, feels like something's r- really, really missing. So y- we're already partly, um, part... you know, partly a cyborg, um, or an AI symbiote essentially, um, it's just that the data rate to the electronics is slow, so... E- especially output. Like, you're just going with your thumbs, I don't know, like, what, what's your data rate? May- optimistically, 100 bits per second. That's being generous. Um, and, and now the computer can, can communicate at, like, you know, hundred... a hundred terabits. Y- you know, how... You know. So, so certainly, you know, gi- gigabits are trivial at this point. So this, this is like m-... You know, basically you can... Your computer could do a, a mill... do things a million times faster or, or, uh, th- you're, you're... At a certain point, it's like talk... the AI is like talking to a tree, okay? It's just boring. (laughs) You talk to a tree, it's very ex- ... it's not very entertaining. Um, so, um, so if you can... if you can solve the, the data rate issue and your... especially output but input, too, then you can improve the symbiosis that is already occurring between man and machine.

9. 28:49 – 34:31

   Mind reading, The Matrix-style language downloads, and timelines for nonverbal exchange

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:49

      So you, you can improve it in what... When you said, "You won't have to talk to each other anymore," we used to joke around about that. I, I've joked around about that a million times in this podcast-

   2. EMElon Musk28:59

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:59

      ... that one day in the future, there's gonna come a time where you can read each other's minds.

   4. EMElon Musk29:02

      Yeah. Well-

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:04

      You'll, you'll be able to interface with each other in some sort of a non-verbal-

   6. EMElon Musk29:07

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:07

      ... non- physical way where you will transfer data back and forth to each other without having to actually use your mouth.

   8. EMElon Musk29:15

      Yeah, exa-

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:15

      And make noises.

   10. EMElon Musk29:17

       E- exactly. So when you... Like, what happens when you... when... Like, the... Let's say you've got some complex idea that you're trying to convey to somebody else, uh, how, how do you do that? Well, your, your brain spends a lot of effort compressing, uh, a complex concept into words. And there's a, there's a lot of, a lot of loss, uh, information loss that occurs when compressing a complex concept into words. And then you say those words, those words are then interpreted, then they're decompressed by the person who is listening, um, and they, they will at best get, uh, a very incomplete understanding of what you're trying con- to convey. It's very difficult to convey a complex concept with precision, um, because you've got compression, decompression. You may have... not even have heard all the words correctly, and so communication is difficult. You know, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:10

       (laughs)

   12. EMElon Musk30:11

       It's a cool hand, Luke.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       Yes, and there's... (laughs) Great movie.

   14. EMElon Musk30:14

       Yeah, great movie.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:15

       And there, there's an interpretation factor, too. Like, you can choose to interpret...... certain s- series of words in, in different ways and they're dependent upon tone, dependent upon-

   16. EMElon Musk30:27

       Yes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       ... social cues, even facial expressions, sarcasm. There's a, there's a lot of variables.

   18. EMElon Musk30:33

       Sarcasm is difficult.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       Yes.

   20. EMElon Musk30:34

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:35

       And so-

   22. EMElon Musk30:36

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       ... one o- one of the things that I, I've said is, like, that there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that, uh, particularly young kids would pick up very quickly. Like, my kids do TikTok and all this jazz and I, I don't know what they're doing. They just know how to do it.

   24. EMElon Musk30:53

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       And they know how to do it really quickly. Like, they learn really quickly and they show me how to edit things and-

   26. EMElon Musk30:57

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       ... it's, if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language, I mean, essentially like a, a Rosetta Stone and something that's done w- that interprets your thoughts and you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation-

   28. EMElon Musk31:16

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       ... with clear, very clear, th- where you know what a person's saying and you can tell them what you're saying and there's no need for noises, no need for mouth noises, no need for-

   30. EMElon Musk31:28

       (laughs) Yes.
10. 34:31 – 57:13

    Saving brain state, replaying memory, simulation unease, and the “brain in a skull vat”

    1. EMElon Musk34:31

       You, you could also save state and-

    2. JRJoe Rogan34:36

       Save state?

    3. EMElon Musk34:37

       Save state, like s- save your brain state, like, like a save game in a video game.

    4. JRJoe Rogan34:41

       Whoa. (laughs) Like, like if you wanna swap from Windows 95-

    5. EMElon Musk34:46

       Well-

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:47

       ... to, like, you (laughs) -

    7. EMElon Musk34:48

       ... probably a little better than, than that, but yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan34:50

       (laughs) I think we are Windows 95 right now.

    9. EMElon Musk34:52

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan34:53

        W- from a meat.

    11. EMElon Musk34:54

        From a future perspective, probably.

    12. JRJoe Rogan34:55

        Yeah.

    13. EMElon Musk34:56

        Um, but yeah, I mean, you, you could, uh, save state, um, and restore to that state into a biological being if you, if you wanted to in the future in principle. There's, like, nothing, like, from a physics standpoint that prevents us. Now, you'd, you'd be a little different, but then you're also a little different when you wake up in the morning from yesterday, and you're a little different. In fact, if you say, like, you five years ago versus you today is quite a big difference.

    14. JRJoe Rogan35:18

        Yes.

    15. EMElon Musk35:19

        Um, so you'd be substantially you. I mean, you'd be, you'd, you'd certainly think you're you.

    16. JRJoe Rogan35:23

        But the idea of saving yourself and then transforming that into some sort of a biological state, like, you could hang out with 30-year-old you?

    17. EMElon Musk35:35

        I mean, the possibilities are endless. Um...

    18. JRJoe Rogan35:38

        (laughs) That's so weird.

    19. EMElon Musk35:40

        I mean, just think, think of, like, how your phone can, you can record videos on your phone.

    20. JRJoe Rogan35:44

        Mm-hmm.

    21. EMElon Musk35:45

        Like, there's no, no way you could remember a video-

    22. JRJoe Rogan35:47

        Right.

    23. EMElon Musk35:47

        ... as accurately as your phone or a camera, you know, could. So, uh, now if, if you've got, like, a, you know, some, some, you know, version 10 Neuralink or whatever far in the future, you, you could r- you could remem- you could r- could recall everything just like it's a movie.

    24. JRJoe Rogan36:05

        Crystal clear.

    25. EMElon Musk36:06

        A- i- j- including all, the entire sensory experience.

    26. JRJoe Rogan36:09

        Emotions, everything.

    27. EMElon Musk36:10

        Everything.

    28. JRJoe Rogan36:11

        Everything.

    29. EMElon Musk36:11

        Everything. And play it back. And, and, and you can actually edit it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan36:16

        Do you think you could share? Edit it?
11. 57:13 – 1:06:59

    COVID-19 reality check: mortality risk by age, hospitals’ capacity, and pandemic preparedness

    1. JRJoe Rogan57:13

       Whoa. Now, when you say civilization is fragile, do you mean because of this COVID-19 shit that's going on right now?

    2. EMElon Musk57:21

       Wha- What's that? I never heard of it.

    3. JRJoe Rogan57:22

       There's this thing.

    4. EMElon Musk57:23

       Yeah, I know.

    5. JRJoe Rogan57:23

       It's like, uh, some people just get a cough.

    6. EMElon Musk57:25

       I have no idea what you're talking about.

    7. JRJoe Rogan57:26

       Other people, it gets much worse.

    8. EMElon Musk57:29

       Uh, sure.

    9. JRJoe Rogan57:31

       Yeah.

    10. EMElon Musk57:33

        Well, yeah. I mean, this certainly has taken over the mind space of the world to a degree that is quite shocking.

    11. JRJoe Rogan57:45

        Yeah. Wow, out of nowhere. That's what's crazy. It's like, you go back to November, nothing. Now here we are December, January, February, March, April, May, six months, totally different world. So from nothing to everything's locked down. There's so much, uh, conflicting information and conflicting opinions about how to proceed.

    12. EMElon Musk58:07

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan58:07

        What, what has happened, you, you find things where... There was, uh, a meatpacking plant, I believe, in Missouri, where 300 plus people were asymptomatic, tested positive and were asymptomatic, and then in other places, it just ravages entire communities and kills people, and it's, it's so weird. It d-... It almost appears on the ou-... Like, if you didn't know any better, you'd be like, "What? It seems like there's a bunch of different viruses." Doesn't seem like it's the same thing, or has a bunch of different reactions to the biological variety of, of people.

    14. EMElon Musk58:45

        Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I kinda saw this whole thing play out in China, uh, before it, it played out in the US, so, um, it's kinda like watching the same movie again, um, but in English. Uh-

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:01

        (laughs)

    16. EMElon Musk59:03

        Um, so, yeah. Um, I remi-... I think the, the, the, the mortality rate is, is much less than what is... Than what, say, the World Health Organization said it was. It's ver-... Much, much less. It's like, probably at least an order of magnitude less.

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:24

        Well, it-

    18. EMElon Musk59:25

        I don't know.

    19. JRJoe Rogan59:25

        It seems to be very deadly to very specific kinds of people, and people with specific problems.

    20. EMElon Musk59:30

        Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, if yo- if you're... You, you can look at the mortality statistics, you know, by age and whether they have comorbid- comorbidities, like, do they have, like, basically existing conditions, and, um, by age, um, and, uh... Y-... You know, if, if you're below 60 and, and have no serious health issues, the probability of death is extremely low. It's not zero, but it's extremely low.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

        They didn't think that this was the case, though, when they first started to lock down the country. Do you think that it's a, a situation where once they've proceeded in a certain way, it's very difficult to correct course?

    22. EMElon Musk1:00:16

        That's almost like people really wanted a panic. They, you know... So it's quite, quite crazy. Um...

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

        But in some places a panic is deserved, right? Like, if you're-

    24. EMElon Musk1:00:28

        Yes.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

        ... in the ICU in Manhattan and people are dying left and right, and everyone's on intubators and it's... I- i- i- it seems like...... when you see all these people on ventilators and so many of them are dying, and you see these nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick, in some places that fear is justified. But then in other places, you're, you're reading these stories about hospitals that are, uh, essentially half empty. They're, they're having to furlough doctors-

    26. EMElon Musk1:00:57

        Mm-hmm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

        ... and nurses because there's no work for them.

    28. EMElon Musk1:01:01

        Most of the hospitals in the United States right now are half empty. Or in some cases, they're at 30% capacity.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

        And is this because they've decided to forego elective procedures and, and, and normal things that people would have to go to the hospital for?

    30. EMElon Musk1:01:17

        Yes. I mean, and we're, and we're not talking about just... some of these elective procedures are quite important.
12. 1:06:59 – 1:26:58

    Lockdowns vs civil liberties: choice, constitutional concerns, and politicization

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:06:59

       Yeah. When you made a series of tweets recently, uh, you know, uh, I don't remember the exact wording, but essentially you were saying, "Free America now." Like let's-

    2. EMElon Musk1:07:08

       I don't think that's the wording.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:07:09

       ... open it back. That is it?

    4. EMElon Musk1:07:10

       (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:07:10

       Thank you. (laughs) But, uh, the, the, you know, what was the re- how much do you pay attention to res- the response to that stuff and what was the response? Like did, did anybody go, "Hey, Elon, what the fuck you doing?" Did anybody pull you aside?

    6. EMElon Musk1:07:22

       Yeah, of course.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:07:24

       (laughs) Who does that? Who gets to do that to you?

    8. EMElon Musk1:07:28

       Well, I mean, I certainly get that. There's no shortage of negative feedback on Twitter. You know?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:07:33

       Oh yeah, Twitter.

    10. EMElon Musk1:07:34

        (laughs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:07:35

        Yeah. But I don't read that.

    12. EMElon Musk1:07:36

        It's a-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:07:37

        Do you read it?

    14. EMElon Musk1:07:37

        ... war zone.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:07:38

        You do sometimes though, right? You do read it.

    16. EMElon Musk1:07:40

        That, yeah, I mean, I scroll through the comments. Like I said, yeah, it's a mean war zone.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:07:45

        Yeah.

    18. EMElon Musk1:07:46

        I mean, people knife you good on Twitter.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:07:48

        (laughs) Something I- I enjoy about the ... Just the, there's a something about the, the freedom of expression that comes from all these people that do attack you. It's like, well, they, if there was no vulnerability whatsoever, they wouldn't attack you. And there, i- it's like there's something about these millions and millions of perspectives that you, you have to, you have to appreciate even if it comes your way, even if the shit storm hits you in the face.

    20. EMElon Musk1:08:23

        Sure.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:08:23

        You gotta appreciate, wow, how amazing is it that all these people do have the ability to express themselves? I mean, you don't, don't necessarily wanna be there when the shit hits you.

    22. EMElon Musk1:08:32

        Sure.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:08:33

        You might wanna get outta the way in anticipation of the shit storm, but the fact that so many people have the ability to reach out. And I think it's, in a lot of ways, it's, uh, I don't wanna say a misused resource, but it's like giving monkeys guns.

    24. EMElon Musk1:08:47

        (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:08:47

        They just start ... Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. They start gunning down things that are in front of 'em without any realization of what they're doing.

    26. EMElon Musk1:08:54

        Sure.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:08:54

        They have a rock, they see a window, they throw it. Whoa, look at that! I got Elon mad. Look at that, this guy got mad at me. This, this ... I, I fucking took this person down on Twitter. I got this lady fired. Oh, the fucking business is going under because of Twitter wars.

    28. EMElon Musk1:09:09

        (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:09:09

        It seems like there's something about it that's this-

    30. EMElon Musk1:09:13

        Sure.

Episode duration: 2:00:08