Joe Rogan Experience #1487 - Janet Zuccarini & Evan Funke

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Da-da-da and we're rolling.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Da-da-da and we're rolling. Janet, Evan, what's up?

   2. JZJanet Zuccarini0:05

      Joe.

   3. EFEvan Funke0:05

      Hey.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      How are you guys? Good to see you.

   5. EFEvan Funke0:07

      Nice to see you.

   6. JZJanet Zuccarini0:07

      Good to see you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Strange times.

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini0:10

      The weirdest times ever.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Yes.

   10. EFEvan Funke0:11

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:11

       But Felix is still intact. The restaurant's there.

   12. EFEvan Funke0:15

       We're still here.

   13. JZJanet Zuccarini0:15

       We will survive.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       Yeah. We were talking about restaurants that have been just destroyed-

   15. EFEvan Funke0:19

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       ... over the rioting and the looting and the chaos. And you guys, you got lucky. You dodged a bullet.

   17. EFEvan Funke0:25

       We did.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Very happy to hear that.

   19. JZJanet Zuccarini0:26

       Well, I think Abbot Kinney got a bit of warning and all of Abbot Kinney boarded up and so we boarded up and the National Guard is still there today.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (laughs) What the fuck? (laughs) So strange.

   21. EFEvan Funke0:37

       It's so wild.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       It does, it doesn't make any sense. Like if you told me that something happened in LA and people were rioting, I'd be like, "Well, if it happened in LA, it kind of makes sense that people are upset." And then you said, "But they're smashing businesses and, and, and destroying restaurants and destroying small stores and family-owned businesses." I'd be like, "Well, wait, why? Why are they doing that?" Like there's no rhyme or reason to this.

   23. EFEvan Funke0:57

       It doesn't make any sense.

   24. JZJanet Zuccarini0:59

       Well-

   25. EFEvan Funke0:59

       I, I understand-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Yeah.

   27. EFEvan Funke1:01

       ... why people are pissed.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Put that fucker up there. Evan, come on. We're just talking about it.

   29. JZJanet Zuccarini1:04

       Evan.

   30. EFEvan Funke1:04

       How's my level?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   It's big leagues. …

   1. JZJanet Zuccarini15:00

      which is great. Like, you know, chefs love, um, Abbot Kinney. You know, it's a gr- it's a great street.

   2. EFEvan Funke15:04

      It's big leagues.

   3. JZJanet Zuccarini15:05

      And, um, I said, you know, "Time is of the essence. If you're interested, you know, here's... you know, check me out. I'm, I'm legitimate, a restaurateur. Check me out." And, um, you know, we were on a FaceTime call that dropped 1,000 times-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      (laughs) .

   5. JZJanet Zuccarini15:18

      ... because of the bad reception.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      Yeah.

   7. JZJanet Zuccarini15:20

      I'm like, "Bear with me." Get back on a FaceTime call with Evan. And I flew Evan to Toronto.

   8. EFEvan Funke15:25

      I think it was Skype, actually.

   9. JZJanet Zuccarini15:27

      Oh, was it Skype?

   10. EFEvan Funke15:28

       Yeah.

   11. JZJanet Zuccarini15:28

       Um, but I flew Evan to Toronto to cook for myself and my team immediately after this, uh, vacation that I had. And Evan did just very few items. A lot of times chefs want to just like wow you, "I'm doing 22 dishes because I want to show you who I am." Evan did just, you know... He just did his cacio e pepe pasta, he did his focaccia bread. He just did very few items because he's confident and he knows. And I ate his food, my team ate his food. I said to Evan, "Food cannot taste better."

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       (laughs)

   13. JZJanet Zuccarini15:57

       And I also described his food as casalinga. So I lived in Italy for eight years. My background, I'm, I'm half Italian, I lived in Italy for eight years. My father basically was at the level of a chef, his cooking. And, um, so I said to Evan, I said, "Your cooking is casalinga," which means like the housewife's cooking, like the mama's cooking.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Mm.

   15. JZJanet Zuccarini16:16

       And Evan always described his cooking like that, casalinga, but not many people describe cooking in that way. And so basically, I think Evan felt that I got him. And then he just turned to me and he said, "You've got a deal. We're partners."

   16. EFEvan Funke16:29

       That's it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Wow.

   18. EFEvan Funke16:30

       I was in Chicago at the time, uh, consulting for Rich Melman of Lettuce Entertain You!. And, um, I was kind of like on hiatus, relearning the business. We'll probably get into that later. But, uh, yeah, I got an email from Janet and I was like, "All right, let's go do this." And that was it. I cooked... I think I cooked four pastas and focaccia.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       So for you, like, that's a... is it a rare thing to get an offer to run a restaurant? Or did... is, is there offers that you get that you turn down?

   20. EFEvan Funke16:58

       No. I mean, at the time, it was rare. Um, now I get offers all the time.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       Mm. Once Felix opened.

   22. EFEvan Funke17:05

       Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Yeah.

   24. EFEvan Funke17:06

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       Yeah. Well, you guys nailed it. It's, it's cra-... Uh, uh, you know, I learned from Bourdain, um, from watching his show, uh, No Reservations, the first show. I was like, "Oh, okay, I have a wrong idea of what food is." Like, I had this idea that food just tastes good. Like, you go someplace, food tastes good.

   26. EFEvan Funke17:24

       Mm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       But then watching his love of food and watching his, uh, deep respect for chefs and, and the preparation and all that's involved in making a dish, I was like, "Oh, it's art. I didn't... Oh, of course it's art." I didn't think of it as art. I thought of it as just food, you know? And then watching his show completely changed my perception on what food is.

   28. JZJanet Zuccarini17:44

       Yeah, not, not every... not every chef operates from being an artist and there's different levels of food. Um, I do have to say, you know, Evan is an absolute master. You know, he's... Evan's obviously not Italian, um, but has studied all over Italy. And it's the... really the dying art of handmade pasta, and Evan is a custodian of keeping this art alive. Like, uh, he's a maestro. He's unbelievable.

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:08

       Is there a specific type of flour that you use?

   30. EFEvan Funke18:11

       Uh, we import six different types from four different regions.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   It's a juggling act.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      it's exposed people to the realities of running a business and how incredibly difficult it is just- just to stay open.

   2. EFEvan Funke30:05

      It's a juggling act.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Especially for restaurants, right?

   4. EFEvan Funke30:08

      Especially.

   5. JZJanet Zuccarini30:08

      No, th- this is what, um, what I was saying before is the pandemic really exposed the restaurant business. And the restaurant business probably has been hit the hardest, and then next all small businesses and retail. And then we're gonna see commercial real estate really be affected right now. But the restaurant business, the national average of the profit margin is 4%.

   6. EFEvan Funke30:27

      Mm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:28

      (laughs)

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini30:28

      That's the national average. We don't- we don't operate that way. Uh, we- we operate, um-... we, we operate at 14% essentially. Uh, but, uh, 20 years ago in the US, most restaurants would make 20, 25%, um, you know, the net profit margin, but it's gone down, it's gone down and really, uh, the business is broken. The, the restaurant business is broken, and we should be charging a lot higher prices, but then you're not going to get the customers. So what you do is you just accept a lower and a lower profit margin. That's why this business is so difficult. And even 10 years ago, you might have a runway in your bank account to survive a few months, but most restaurants, you know, withou- they have a month and then they're done. They've got nothing in the bank account.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:13

      (sighs)

   10. JZJanet Zuccarini31:14

       It's a horrible business. Nobody should be-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       (laughs)

   12. JZJanet Zuccarini31:16

       ... in the restaurant buil- unless you're crazy and you're so passionate about it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       That's you.

   14. JZJanet Zuccarini31:21

       That's me.

   15. EFEvan Funke31:22

       That's both of us.

   16. JZJanet Zuccarini31:22

       But, uh, but I will, a-

   17. EFEvan Funke31:23

       That's all of us.

   18. JZJanet Zuccarini31:24

       But it-

   19. EFEvan Funke31:24

       11 million of us.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       Yeah.

   21. JZJanet Zuccarini31:26

       Yeah. Well, 11, 11 million of us and then you think, you know, and w- when you look at the supply chain, so we ... And the restaurant- restaurants employ 11 million people in the United States, but then when you add in the supply chain of the farmers and the winemakers and the linen cleaners, and, you know, w- we, we employ 20 million people. And we're the second-largest employer in the United States next to the Pentagon. So, you know, right now, we have to think-

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:52

       Wow. That's crazy. Restaurants are the second-largest employer and the Pentagon is the first?

   23. JZJanet Zuccarini31:58

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       How creepy is it that the-

   25. EFEvan Funke31:59

       (laughs)

   26. JZJanet Zuccarini31:59

       Look it up.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       ... Pentagon's the first?

   28. EFEvan Funke32:00

       (laughs)

   29. JZJanet Zuccarini32:00

       Jamie, Jamie, look it up.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       I would check, like, Amazon to be the head of the Pentagon. What the fuck? No. Tha- that's, that's a nutty number, but it makes-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Oh, my God. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      are there. There was another thing that we talked about the other day, we, we should probably correct that now. There was stacks of bricks in front of this, uh, synagogue, and we thought those stacks of bricks were also the same thing, sort of left there because people were protesting, but it's actually even grosser. The stacks of bricks were there to keep people from driving their car through the synagogue.

   2. EFEvan Funke45:19

      Oh, my God.

   3. JZJanet Zuccarini45:19

      Oh, God.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:20

      So, that's... The synagogue set it up that way just to keep people from smashing through their windows, you know, after some of these-

   5. JZJanet Zuccarini45:26

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      ... uh, hate crimes. So, it's like-

   7. JZJanet Zuccarini45:29

      This is a world in pain.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:31

      A fucking crazy time. I am a, I am an eternal optimist, and my feeling is that this is a terrible moment for us, but a good one because I think it's big enough that we're gonna change.

   9. JZJanet Zuccarini45:47

      I agree.

   10. EFEvan Funke45:47

       I think we're gonna learn. 100%.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       Yeah.

   12. JZJanet Zuccarini45:49

       I agree.

   13. EFEvan Funke45:49

       There's a real chance, a real chance-

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:51

       Yeah.

   15. EFEvan Funke45:52

       ... yeah, that people are gonna change.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Yes. I really think that. And you're, you're seeing it. Like, there was a video I was watching today of a girl having an argument with her racist father, and she filmed it. Did you see that?

   17. JZJanet Zuccarini46:02

       Oh, that's something.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       Yeah. That kind of stuff gives me hope. Like, a kid who's raised by someone who's got some racial prejudice and the kid doesn't, you know? And the kid... The, the, the attitude of kids today, the attitude of young people today is so much more tolerant than any other generation before, and it's so enforced. It's a culturally enforced tolerance. And I hope it's for everything. I hope it's for all races, all genders, all sexual orientations, all... Everything.

   19. EFEvan Funke46:27

       Everything.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       Just, we can be better. We can be better. And, like, it takes something like this to make everybody realize, like, there's some fucked-up aspects of our society that need to be corrected.

   21. JZJanet Zuccarini46:36

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:36

       And there needs to be some serious refocusing of what it takes to be a police officer and what, what police officers can and can't do and what, what the punishment is and who's responsible. And then if you're a cop and you see someone do something horrible that's also a cop, you gotta step up. You gotta do something. We can't, we can't do this anymore.

   23. JZJanet Zuccarini46:56

       Yeah. Did you see Chris Rock's post from three days ago? There's some, there's some vocations you can't have a bad apple. He's like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   25. EFEvan Funke47:03

       (laughs)

   26. JZJanet Zuccarini47:03

       ... "Police officers, police officers are one you can't have a bad apple," just like-

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:06

       Yeah.

   28. JZJanet Zuccarini47:06

       ... you can't have a bad apple as a pilot.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:08

       Yes.

   30. JZJanet Zuccarini47:08

       You can't... Like, some of our pilots like to land. Others like to go-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:36

   I miss that fucking…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      is.

   2. EFEvan Funke1:00:00

      I miss that fucking guy.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      I miss that fucking guy, too. But, but I think-

   4. JZJanet Zuccarini1:00:03

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      ... many people don't ever have that experience where they do make that switch in their head, like, "Oh, this is art. This isn't just food." You know? And there's th- I think there's a lot of people that ... It's like everything else, y- if you don't do it, you don't really have an appreciation for it.

   6. EFEvan Funke1:00:19

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

      If you don't study or, or, uh, really d- deeply try to understand it, you don't have an appreciation for it. That's, like, everything else, like, uh, like, how kids treat society in general, how a lot of people just take things for granted. I think people take food for granted.

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini1:00:33

      But I think there's been a lot of focus on food over the last, you know, maybe call it 10 years- ... where you have the, the Chef's Table and people really-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

      Mm-hmm.

   10. EFEvan Funke1:00:40

       Yeah.

   11. JZJanet Zuccarini1:00:40

       ... appreciating, um, the art of cooking.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

       Yes.

   13. EFEvan Funke1:00:43

       When I started cooking, that shit was a blue-collar job, man.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       Yeah.

   15. EFEvan Funke1:00:46

       There were very, very few celebrity chefs, like, there was like Emeril and Mario when I started cooking. And, like, overnight-It became like the hot shit to do and all these culinary schools start opening and just meat grinder, just churning out these ill-prepared, uh, e-entitled kids. And you know, they, they sell them a bill of goods when, when they go to culinary school. You're like, "You graduate from here, you're gonna be a chef." What I didn't know as soon as I got out of culinary school, I was making seven dollars a fucking hour. Seven dollars an hour p- you know, peeling fucking carrots and potatoes and picking parsley and shit. And like, you really gotta love it to, to get to that point and you gotta do it for 10 years to get good at it, and then you gotta do it another 10 years to start making money from it. And that's it. And a lot of the younger kids, they're just not willing to pay the fucking cost and they wanna skip rungs in the ladder and... and-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:46

       That's the case with every art form. We find that with comedy, with standup comedy, there's a lot of kids that they, they wanna do standup and they develop a YouTube channel and then they get a following from making funny YouTube videos and then they think they're a standup comic. And you're like, "Hold the fuck on."

   17. JZJanet Zuccarini1:01:59

       They're like, "Where's my Netflix special?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

       Yeah.

   19. JZJanet Zuccarini1:02:00

       Like...

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       Exactly.

   21. JZJanet Zuccarini1:02:01

       "I demand it."

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       Yeah, it takes-

   23. EFEvan Funke1:02:03

       And with comedy and food, the proof is in the end result.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:05

       Mm-hmm.

   25. EFEvan Funke1:02:06

       It's either good or it's bad. You, you might be able to make one dish perfectly one time, but can you do that shit 10,000 times-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:13

       Right.

   27. EFEvan Funke1:02:13

       ... with 98% accuracy?

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:15

       Right.

   29. EFEvan Funke1:02:16

       That's where... That's the rub.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:18

       There's also a thing in, I think, in being a chef where what you were talking about making seven dollars an hour peeling onions and stuff that, that's real similar to comedy in that you gotta do the road. You do- you gotta work these shitholes.

Episode duration: 1:51:01