Joe Rogan Experience #1487 - Janet Zuccarini & Evan Funke

1. 0:01 – 1:55

   Riots, looting, and keeping Felix safe in Venice

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Da-da-da and we're rolling. Janet, Evan, what's up?

   2. JZJanet Zuccarini0:05

      Joe.

   3. EFEvan Funke0:05

      Hey.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      How are you guys? Good to see you.

   5. EFEvan Funke0:07

      Nice to see you.

   6. JZJanet Zuccarini0:07

      Good to see you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      Strange times.

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini0:10

      The weirdest times ever.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Yes.

   10. EFEvan Funke0:11

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:11

       But Felix is still intact. The restaurant's there.

   12. EFEvan Funke0:15

       We're still here.

   13. JZJanet Zuccarini0:15

       We will survive.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       Yeah. We were talking about restaurants that have been just destroyed-

   15. EFEvan Funke0:19

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       ... over the rioting and the looting and the chaos. And you guys, you got lucky. You dodged a bullet.

   17. EFEvan Funke0:25

       We did.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Very happy to hear that.

   19. JZJanet Zuccarini0:26

       Well, I think Abbot Kinney got a bit of warning and all of Abbot Kinney boarded up and so we boarded up and the National Guard is still there today.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (laughs) What the fuck? (laughs) So strange.

   21. EFEvan Funke0:37

       It's so wild.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       It does, it doesn't make any sense. Like if you told me that something happened in LA and people were rioting, I'd be like, "Well, if it happened in LA, it kind of makes sense that people are upset." And then you said, "But they're smashing businesses and, and, and destroying restaurants and destroying small stores and family-owned businesses." I'd be like, "Well, wait, why? Why are they doing that?" Like there's no rhyme or reason to this.

   23. EFEvan Funke0:57

       It doesn't make any sense.

   24. JZJanet Zuccarini0:59

       Well-

   25. EFEvan Funke0:59

       I, I understand-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Yeah.

   27. EFEvan Funke1:01

       ... why people are pissed.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Put that fucker up there. Evan, come on. We're just talking about it.

   29. JZJanet Zuccarini1:04

       Evan.

   30. EFEvan Funke1:04

       How's my level?
2. 1:55 – 5:55

   Reopening with no notice: staffing whiplash and conflicting regulations

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:55

      A disease we thought was gonna kill everybody and then so everybody shuts down. Then it turns out it doesn't really kill nearly as many people as we thought, but we still have to be shut down. And then like, "When do we get to go back to work?" And then all of a sudden, "Hey, you guys can open up." Like you guys got no warning.

   2. EFEvan Funke2:09

      No warning.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:10

      No warning. I mean, I called Janet up when it happened and I was like, "What? You just, you get to open? Like, but it takes 10 days to get staff ready." That's what you said, right?

   4. JZJanet Zuccarini2:19

      Yeah, I just had a friend, uh, send me a text message, "Hey, so you, are you open? I hear you can be open now." And I mean, it was just dropped in the news before, you know, any, we could have any time to prepare. And you know, we don't have the staffing. You need, you need, we need at least 10 days to be able to open our doors.

   5. EFEvan Funke2:34

      That, I mean, that's really our biggest challenge is, is getting our staff back into the restaurant and feeling comfortable in the restaurant with all these new regulations. And you have state regulations, you have LA County regulations, you have City of Los Angeles regulations, and each one of the documents are like novel length. So I'm sitting there at home reading all three, cross-referencing, and we basically have to abide by the most stringent rules. So I'm like picking apart each one, okay, trying to decipher what we can actually do and then on top of that, we're trying to get people out of their houses because they're scared shitless to come back.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:13

      Are they though?

   7. EFEvan Funke3:13

      Because the wild card, well, the wild card is the clientele coming in.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:17

      I think people are gonna come back in droves. I think if you were open full capacity, you'd be fucking sold out instantly. I really don't think there's any issue at all. I think there's so much fear mongering going on, but I think the re- the, the, the actual attitude of people, way more people are interested in going out than are interested in, in being-

   9. EFEvan Funke3:36

      I agree with you. 100%.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       ... locked up for longer.

   11. JZJanet Zuccarini3:38

       Well, I think it's like different, um, you know, groups of people. So you have young people who want to go out and they don't care and they'll, you know, seat, be seated at full capacity, but, um, if you have any kind of health risks or you're older, you're not gonna feel safe to go out. And, you know, the restaurant business, when you're even allowed to be seated at 100% is a really, really difficult business. And I think the pandemic really showed the inherent weakness of this industry that we run on razor-thin profit margins. Now we're allowed to be seated at 60%. So do we pay 60% rent then at that point?

   12. EFEvan Funke4:14

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:14

       Right.

   14. EFEvan Funke4:14

       Our co- costs don't go down, you know, 40%.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:18

       Right.

   16. EFEvan Funke4:18

       We're still paying 100% of our costs, 100% of our labor, 100% of our rent. You know, the cost of food doesn't go down.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:25

       Right.

   18. EFEvan Funke4:25

       So we're forced to become extremely creative. And there's one thing that I know about the restaurant industry, we're, we're highly adaptable. You know, we have to kind of play within this game where we have to be unwavering on all of our standards and then be completely adaptable minute to minute from everyone's demands. And everybody literally expects perfection.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       There's also this extreme lack of communication as to like what, what the timeline they're looking at and what, what will be the standards for you to be open 100%. It's the same thing with the Comedy Store. The Comedy Store has no idea when they're gonna be able to be open because restaurants are open and they're saying, "Well, aren't we kind of like a restaurant? We serve food." And they're like, "Yeah, but no one goes to you specifically for food. Even though they're sitting down, you can't be open."

   20. EFEvan Funke5:11

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:11

       And they're like, "But it's not a nightclub, meaning like a bar where everybody just mingles. There's seats. Like, isn't that okay?" And they're like, "No, we don't think so. We don't know." (laughs) But come on.

   22. JZJanet Zuccarini5:19

       Well, but nobody knows, but nobody knows anything, you know, that's what-

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:23

       Right. Yeah.

   24. JZJanet Zuccarini5:23

       ... we have a complete lack of trust-

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:24

       Yeah.

   26. JZJanet Zuccarini5:25

       ... um, you know, in everything, in, you know, politics and how the pandemic has been handled and also handling the businesses mandating, you know, overnight that we close our doors and go to zero revenue-

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:36

       Yeah.

   28. JZJanet Zuccarini5:36

       ... but there's no mandates on how we operate with zero revenue.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       Right.

   30. JZJanet Zuccarini5:40

       You know, moving forward, how do we, what do we say to our landlords who deserve to be paid? Uh, so but nobody knows anything. And right now with opening, you know, the health department, the, it's a 17-page document on how you are supposed to open in a safe way.

3. 5:55 – 1:10:36

   17 pages of COVID rules: masks, shields, logs—and why it feels absurd

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:55

      What did they tell you have to do?

   2. EFEvan Funke5:56

      Oh man.

   3. JZJanet Zuccarini5:57

      Well, 17 pages. Do you want-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:59

      (laughs)

   5. JZJanet Zuccarini5:59

      Page one-

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:59

      Let's start at page one.

   7. EFEvan Funke6:00

      It's, I mean-

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini6:01

      We'll start at page one-

   9. EFEvan Funke6:02

      ... at the very basis of it, you know, there's, there's gotta be an employee log. We have to take the ti- the temperature of all of our employees when they actually enter the premises. So we have to have a log on that. Anyone who has direct contact with, uh, customers have to wear a face mask and a face shield.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       A shield?

   11. EFEvan Funke6:20

       100%.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       Oh.

   13. EFEvan Funke6:21

       And then on the client side, you have to wear a mask when you're not eating.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:27

       Why the-

   15. EFEvan Funke6:27

       So that means if you get up to go to the bathroom in the restaurant, you have to put your mask on-

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:31

       Oh, God.

   17. EFEvan Funke6:32

       ... and then take it off when you get back to the table.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       That's so dumb. It doesn't make any sense.

   19. EFEvan Funke6:36

       It-

   20. JZJanet Zuccarini6:37

       It doesn't make any sense.

   21. EFEvan Funke6:37

       A l- and a lot of it is, like, completely ambiguous.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       Well, why would you have to wear a face mask if you already have a shield over your face? Right?

   23. JZJanet Zuccarini6:49

       Well, I think there's-

   24. EFEvan Funke6:50

       (laughs)

   25. JZJanet Zuccarini6:50

       ... there's been some reports that you-

   26. EFEvan Funke6:51

       I have so many questions.

   27. JZJanet Zuccarini6:52

       ... y- you can get it through your eyes.

   28. EFEvan Funke6:53

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       But you were... There's been reports that you get from touching things and now they say you can't.

   30. JZJanet Zuccarini6:57

       I know, but they, they're just t- you know, they're saying everything, they're saying anything.
4. 9:26 – 12:23

   The craft behind Felix: handmade pasta, ‘toothsome’ al dente, and regional authenticity

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:26

      Well, let's talk nice things. Let's talk-

   2. JZJanet Zuccarini9:27

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      Let's talk about, uh, the... What you guys have put together is pretty remarkable, 'cause-

   4. EFEvan Funke9:32

      Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:33

      ... the food there is so good. It's kind, it's kind of ridiculous. Like, your pasta's got voodoo in it. I don't know what you're doing.

   6. EFEvan Funke9:39

      It is voodoo.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      And I, I guess it's because it's handmade, right? Because, uh, one... The first time my wife and I ate there, we sat right next to that open area where you can watch-

   8. EFEvan Funke9:48

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:49

      ... you guys make the pasta.

   10. EFEvan Funke9:51

       The lavu.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:51

       And it's, uh, such a painstaking process. And you, you realize, you really truly appreciate that it's an art form, you know? That, like, making stuff like that, like cutting no corners and making it as good as it could possibly taste.

   12. EFEvan Funke10:04

       Well, that... I mean, that's the ultimate goal, is to create that connection between pasta maker and someone who's eating the pasta. Like, if you look through the glass and you see a pastaio or pastaia in there banging out-

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       What, what's the difference? A pastaio? Is this-

   14. EFEvan Funke10:18

       Pastaio is male, pastaia is-

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       Gender-neutral?

   16. JZJanet Zuccarini10:20

       Yeah.

   17. EFEvan Funke10:20

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       (laughs)

   19. EFEvan Funke10:22

       So, you know, they're banging out trofie, which is like a coil from Liguria. And you look down at your plate and there's like 160 to 180 pieces on your plate, you're like, "Fuck, this guy's rep-ing-"

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       This, is this from your... Or is-

   21. EFEvan Funke10:33

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:34

       He's got pictures over here.

   23. EFEvan Funke10:34

       "This guy's doing 180 reps just for me."

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:37

       Mm.

   25. EFEvan Funke10:38

       That's a connection. And once you get it... Sometimes a bowl of pasta is a bowl of pasta. I get it. But this is something different. It, this is, this is craft, this is tradition, this is continuing this conversation of... that's been passed down from generation to generation. Uh, and all I'm doing, all we're doing a- at Felix is just a small spoke in a, in a, in a massive wheel of, of Italian culinary tradition.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:03

       Well, you know just exactly how long to cook it too, which is amazing. Like, the, the, the bite-

   27. EFEvan Funke11:09

       Because I'm fucking maniacal, Joe.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       I get it, man.

   29. EFEvan Funke11:11

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:11

       You must be 'cause the, just the way your teeth sink into it, it's like everything is amazing.
5. 12:23 – 18:08

   How Felix happened: Janet’s Abbot Kinney dream and recruiting Evan at the last second

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      Wow. Now, you guys have been open for what? Two years?

   2. EFEvan Funke12:26

      Three years.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:27

      Three years?

   4. EFEvan Funke12:27

      In April, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:28

      How much prep time is there before you open? Like, when you have a plan... And, and Janet you've opened up, how many restaurants? You have a ton.

   6. JZJanet Zuccarini12:36

      Nine restaurants-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:37

      Yeah.

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini12:37

      ... and four under construction. Great time to be under construction-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:40

      (laughs)

   10. JZJanet Zuccarini12:40

       ... in the restaurant business.

   11. EFEvan Funke12:41

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       So crazy. Um-

   13. JZJanet Zuccarini12:43

       My life sucks.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       (laughs)

   15. JZJanet Zuccarini12:44

       Hashtag.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       It could be a lot worse.

   17. JZJanet Zuccarini12:46

       No, it... yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       When-

   19. JZJanet Zuccarini12:47

       Right.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       (laughs) When you are about to open up a place like Felix, then how, how do you... how do you get started? Did you know Evan in advance? Did you guys talk before? Like, how do you, how do you put together a restaurant like that?

   21. JZJanet Zuccarini13:00

       Well, each restaurant that I've opened, um, d- definitely has a different story. So I have a few Italian restaurants, I have Thai restaurants, I have a Jamaican restaurant in Toronto. So, you know, all very different stories. But, uh, wanted to, um, basically expand outside of Toronto. And I came to LA for lifestyle reasons, to get out of the, uh, Toronto winters. And decided, you know, this will be my first place that I open a restaurant outside of, uh, Toronto. And I had a dream on, of being on Abbot Kinney. I just love Abbot Kinney. Um, it feels like one of the only streets in Los Angeles where it's, um, you know, like a neighborhood and a street that you can walk down. So, lucki- lucki- luckily I, you know, found this location on Abbot Kinney. And it's a long story, but I was working with another chef for about nine months. And then, at the eleventh hour I had the location, we were all set to begin construction, and he just said, "I'm gonna... I've decided to go work with another restaurant group." And I was like, overnight, just like left without a chef. And I only had one other name of another chef in LA, and it was Evan Funke. And, um, a food writer just sent me an email. Because I was just out meeting people saying, "Hey, I'm looking for a chef that has a following, a super talented chef." And this one, um, Kevin West, shout out to Kevin West, sent me an email and said, "Evan Funke is an amazingly talented chef and he's available." And so when this other chef bailed on me and I was, um, on vacation at that time. I was in Morocco, of all places. And, uh, I go- you know, I asked to, for a week off to not... to go off the grid for a week. And then, uh, the president of my company contacted me. He said, "You got to get on the phone. We don't have a chef."

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       (laughs) oh.

   23. JZJanet Zuccarini14:39

       And, uh ... And so I go, "I have one name in my Rolodex (laughs) , it's Evan Funke." And I sent Evan ... Uh, I felt that I had to send him a compelling, uh, email so that I could get his attention because I had no other, um, you know, options. And I said, you know, "Evan, I hear. You know, Kevin West says you're an amazingly talented chef. I have a location on Abbot Kinney," which is great. Like, you know, chefs love, um, Abbot Kinney. You know, it's a gr- it's a great street.

   24. EFEvan Funke15:04

       It's big leagues.

   25. JZJanet Zuccarini15:05

       And, um, I said, you know, "Time is of the essence. If you're interested, you know, here's... you know, check me out. I'm, I'm legitimate, a restaurateur. Check me out." And, um, you know, we were on a FaceTime call that dropped 1,000 times-

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:18

       (laughs) .

   27. JZJanet Zuccarini15:18

       ... because of the bad reception.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       Yeah.

   29. JZJanet Zuccarini15:20

       I'm like, "Bear with me." Get back on a FaceTime call with Evan. And I flew Evan to Toronto.

   30. EFEvan Funke15:25

       I think it was Skype, actually.
6. 18:08 – 23:11

   Flour, wheat, and ‘baker’s lung’: the hidden hazards of pasta-making

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:08

      Is there a specific type of flour that you use?

   2. EFEvan Funke18:11

      Uh, we import six different types from four different regions.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:15

      And now, is the... the word about pasta and about...... bread and wheat in general is that American wheat is a different kind of wheat. It's-

   4. EFEvan Funke18:24

      It's a different kind of wheat. It's also processed completely different. I don't, I don't use a lot of American wheat just because it's, it's just been manipulated so much and a lot of the, the digestibility of h- uh, in my opinion , people are gonna freak out, but in my opinion, the amount of work that goes into denaturing pasta in order to get it flat via machine has a lot to do with its digestibility.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:52

      Mm-hmm.

   6. EFEvan Funke18:52

      Just like sourdough bread is more digestible because it's broken down in a different way. But handmade pasta is less manipulated than machine-made pasta-

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:01

      Mm-hmm.

   8. EFEvan Funke19:02

      ... in my opinion. So, um, also the, the types of wheat, the amount of wheat germ that's in it, the nutritional value, it all has to do, uh, with those elements within the, in the flour. And to be honest, like, I've developed a, uh, a gluten intolerance because I've been breathing raw flour for the past, you know, 12 years.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:23

      Oh, really?

   10. EFEvan Funke19:24

       So as soon as I step in- set foot in the lab and I start rolling a sfoglio, my stomach just start... It's acid, straight up.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:32

       That's crazy. Just from the powder?

   12. EFEvan Funke19:33

       Because I've been breathing raw. Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:34

       Wow.

   14. EFEvan Funke19:35

       'Cause it's like talcum, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Mm-hmm.

   16. EFEvan Funke19:36

       Double-zero flour's extremely fine, so we have to throw it in order to, you know, put some on the table to roll it out, so you breathe it in all day long.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:44

       So you've developed-

   18. EFEvan Funke19:44

       And we've got extractors, we've got, you know, humidity control and air conditioning and all that, but still.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       But, so you've developed an intolerance because of that?

   20. EFEvan Funke19:52

       Yeah, it's called whe- it's called white lung or baker's lung.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       Baker's lung?

   22. EFEvan Funke19:56

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       So do you wear a mask?

   24. EFEvan Funke19:57

       Uh, I do not.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       Why don't you wear a mask?

   26. EFEvan Funke20:00

       Um, I don't know. It's not good for me. (laughs) I don't like it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:02

       (laughs) Like, when I-

   28. EFEvan Funke20:03

       I don't know. I, uh, you know-

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:05

       Seems like that would be a good thing to do.

   30. EFEvan Funke20:07

       Sure, but-
7. 23:11 – 35:50

   Apprenticeship in Italy and the long ladder: mastery, consistency, and “no shortcuts”

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:11

      Wow, so, so when you moved to Italy to, to learn how to do... Like, what kind- what is an apprenticeship like in, you know, learning how to make pasta?

   2. EFEvan Funke23:21

      (sighs) I mean, it's an apprenticeship. You have to put yourself in the, in the student's chair, and, and be a sponge. I didn't speak any- not a lick of Italian, um, but the Italians are very expressive, so you're able to communicate through just being Italian, I guess. And, uh, I spent three months, you know, six days a week, 10 hours a day, just making pasta, period.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:43

      Wow.

   4. EFEvan Funke23:45

      Period.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:46

      See, this is what's fascinating to me, things you just, you know, you just take for granted. Oh, here is a plate of pasta. Like, but what, what is involved in learning how to make it that good?

   6. EFEvan Funke23:57

      It's not just ingredients. When people sit down at a, at a restaurant, people aren't just paying for, for the experience of sitting there and the cost of food. They're, they're paying for the experience of the people that are making the food.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:10

      Hm.

   8. EFEvan Funke24:11

      That's a big part of it. That's the way that I look at it. And 11 years of making pasta by hand, there's a lot of depth that some of the younger guys just aren't willing to pay the time cost.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:26

      Mm.

   10. EFEvan Funke24:27

       And a lot of the younger cooks out there, they bounce around from job to job, six months here, three months here, and they think that they've mastered it. But there's just no depth. There's no depth.

   11. JZJanet Zuccarini24:38

       You know, you have to also consider how labor-intensive it is to, you know, hand roll out the pasta. And you know, what Evan was saying before, like each one rolled by hand. You know, when you- when you eat a bowl of pasta, you're not thinking that each one was, like, pressed out by hand. So it's, like, extremely labor-intensive and a lot of people, when we were opening, um... Evan did have his own restaurant, Bucato, before, which was also, um, uh, basically it focused around pasta as well. That's a whole other story.

   12. EFEvan Funke25:05

       (laughs)

   13. JZJanet Zuccarini25:06

       Um, but when we were going to open up this restaurant and we put in the middle of the restaurant the temperature-controlled pasta lab, which is taking up tables. So if you're a businessperson, a restaurateur, you say, "How many tables could fit in there? How much is each table worth to your- your bottom line?" You're using up that space-

   14. EFEvan Funke25:22

       Wow.

   15. JZJanet Zuccarini25:22

       ... to put in-

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       Yeah, it is.

   17. JZJanet Zuccarini25:24

       You're using that space to put in a pasta lab? Are you crazy? Um, also, you know, when you're thinking about, you know, training the people and how labor-intensive it is, people were saying, like, we're- we're crazy doing- doing this again, but-

   18. EFEvan Funke25:36

       Yeah, they didn't think we could make money.

   19. JZJanet Zuccarini25:38

       Yep.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:39

       Well, it is a lot of space.

   21. EFEvan Funke25:40

       It's lots.

   22. JZJanet Zuccarini25:40

       That pasta lab is a big space, but it's so cool to be sitting right there and-

   23. EFEvan Funke25:45

       It's a showstopper.

   24. JZJanet Zuccarini25:46

       Yeah. It really... It's- it's something special.

   25. EFEvan Funke25:49

       And the other thing-

   26. JZJanet Zuccarini25:49

       And it's worked out. We're making money.

   27. EFEvan Funke25:50

       (laughs)

   28. JZJanet Zuccarini25:50

       I mean, we were making money.

   29. EFEvan Funke25:53

       We were. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:53

       (laughs)
8. 35:50 – 1:10:36

   Janet’s restaurant empire meets COVID: expansion plans, debt, and laying off 700 people

   1. JRJoe Rogan35:50

      So, Janet, we were talking on the phone about what it's like for you to have all these restaurants under construction and you were this unstoppable machine. You were a restaurant machine. Everything was kicking ass.

   2. JZJanet Zuccarini36:00

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan36:00

      And then all of a sudden, eh!

   4. JZJanet Zuccarini36:02

      Yeah. Well, um, you know, the only thing I've ever done is been in the restaurant business and out of university. I came from Italy and I opened my first restaurant in Toronto and slowly got-

   5. JRJoe Rogan36:12

      Right out of school?

   6. JZJanet Zuccarini36:13

      Well, I was older. I, uh ... I took my time in school, too.

   7. JRJoe Rogan36:16

      (laughs)

   8. JZJanet Zuccarini36:16

      I started when I was ... I started university when I was 22. So I took my time. But, um, when I opened my first restaurant, I definitely connected to a passion and I had this slow route of growing this company so that restaurant opened 24 years ago and is still running, uh, you know, still running today.

   9. JRJoe Rogan36:37

      That's incredible.... what are the odds of that? Like- That's a-

   10. JZJanet Zuccarini36:39

       Well, the average, um, you know, after you pass, a year, you know, you have a lifespan, most restaurants, of seven years.

   11. JRJoe Rogan36:46

       Yeah.

   12. JZJanet Zuccarini36:46

       So I've had a few lifetimes at that restaurant. And then I slowly saved my money and wanted to buy the real estate where that, where that restaurant is. It's in Yorkville. Do you know Toronto? You know Toronto. Do you know Yorkville?

   13. JRJoe Rogan36:58

       No, I don't.

   14. JZJanet Zuccarini37:00

       It's a nice little neighborhood in Toronto and I wanted to buy this real estate, so I saved my money to buy the real estate. So I was, I was very, um, cautious, uh, growing the company and building a foundation. And then, uh, I bought one piece of real estate, then I bought another building, and then I put, uh, another restaurant twice as big as my first restaurant. And then I bought another building. So I've been buying these buildings and putting restaurants inside the buildings until I felt that my foundation was so strong that nothing could happen to me. So I could only put through the lens back then in the, you know, before the pandemic, to say, "In an economic upturn, people will eat pizza. On an economic downturn, people will eat pizza." I'm untouchable. That's how I felt. I felt nothing could touch me. And then we opened up Felix, and Felix has gotten, you know, incredible accolades, you know, in the press, and rightfully so. And Evan's cooking is off the charts. And, um, uh, I thought, you know, "L- we're ready to really grow, so let's, let's do this." And I built, uh, a company where, you know, I have a head office, it's a proper company, and, uh, I have an incredible team of people. And I felt very ready and very stable, and with an incredible- incredibly, um, strong foundation that I said, "We're ready to do this." And so 2020 was my big year to open five restaurants in one year.

   15. JRJoe Rogan38:19

       Wow.

   16. JZJanet Zuccarini38:20

       So I just... uh, I, I just, uh... Just before the pandemic, flew to Toronto to open, um, a 9,000 square foot restaurant to immediately close it, and that cost $9 million to open this 9,000 square foot restaurant that opened one day, trained 100 people for two months, and then immediately shut that down.

   17. JRJoe Rogan38:40

       (laughs)

   18. JZJanet Zuccarini38:40

       Shut down all restaurants, so shut down eight operations. And I also have a catering company, so shut down eight, eight operations in Toronto and a catering company, furloughed 700 people, and then I have four other projects under construction. And personally, all of the money in the company out on construction sites.

   19. JRJoe Rogan39:01

       Oof.

   20. JZJanet Zuccarini39:01

       Plus, I personally loaned all of my money-

   21. JRJoe Rogan39:04

       (sighs)

   22. JZJanet Zuccarini39:04

       ... to build the restaurants because that's what, that's what I do.

   23. JRJoe Rogan39:06

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JZJanet Zuccarini39:06

       What I do is, I, I buy, I buy buildings and then I get mortgages on the buildings, then I use all the cash that I have anywhere that I c- that I can find it to open restaurants. So I might have a temporary, you know, uh, lack of cash, but then, you know, backed by very strong revenue. So I'm, uh, funding all the construction sites by all these restaurants that have extremely strong, um, streams of revenue. So once again, it w- I, uh, didn't feel like I was, um, taking a big risk opening five restaurants in 2020. So, uh, I swear to you that the, the day the pandemic happened and I had to shut down, it was literally the day before I loaned out... I wrote a massive check for one construction site.

   25. JRJoe Rogan39:46

       (sighs)

   26. JZJanet Zuccarini39:46

       Like, (laughs) all of my money in my bank account, you know, out to one construction site. Then we shut everything down, and it was like I was, I was kicked in the teeth. Like, I was brought to my knees.

   27. JRJoe Rogan39:57

       (sighs)

   28. JZJanet Zuccarini39:57

       And I had never felt stress like that. Because of how conservative I am and how fiscally responsible that I've always been, and feeling that I was untouchable, I just thought, um, you know, nothing could ever happen to me in this... you know, I could never risk anything. But I woke up one day when I had to close everything down. And first of all, the feeling of laying off 700 people when you know the majority of your staff live paycheck to paycheck, uh, was absolutely heartbreaking. And that I, I ran the real risk of losing everything. Not only all the restaurants, but all the buildings, because the bank, you know, owns my buildings. I don't own the buildings. And, you know, this pandemic caught me w- with my financial pants down. Like, I just wa- it was like, "Oh my God, this is really (laughs) bad timing for me."

   29. JRJoe Rogan40:37

       Do you think if there's a second wave they're gonna try to do this again?

   30. JZJanet Zuccarini40:41

       Shut you down?

Episode duration: 1:51:01