Joe Rogan Experience #1519 - Mike Baker

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer. Currently he is the president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm. His new show "Black Files Declassified" is now available on the Science Channel.

Joe RoganhostMike Bakerguest

Aug 4, 20202h 44mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,012 words

0:01 – 2:38
COVID testing in the studio and early pandemic context
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Hello, Mike Baker.
2. MBMike Baker
  (sighs) Hello, Joe Rogan.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Brought your laptop this time, huh?
4. MBMike Baker
  Look at that. Laptop, I got a- a- a-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  You're prepared.
6. MBMike Baker
  ... pad of paper, I got a pen. Uh, what-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  There's many issues, there's many things-
8. MBMike Baker
  Thank you for my COVID test.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah, we needed that.
10. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  We're doing them every week now.
12. MBMike Baker
  (sighs) Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I've- I've- I don't even know how many times I've been tested, but it's good to know.
14. MBMike Baker
  It's good to know. It's- it's- it's odd that you can travel across the country and find that some places, it takes you 10 days to get a response. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes to get a response. I- I- I... That's part I don't understand.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, those super-duper ones they have at the White House, they can get those in 20 minutes.
16. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
17. JRJoe Rogan
  The ones we have here, you can get the... Well, a 10-minute one, see, the antibody blood test will show you in 10 minutes whether or not you have an... This is the FDA-approved ones that we use here. They show you whether or not you have active antibodies, meaning a recent infection, you're probably currently fighting off the virus, or whether or not it's an old infection, so you've had the virus and beat it, and then the nose swab will say definitively if you've got it in your system.
18. MBMike Baker
  Mm-hmm. Now, if they come back during the course of this show and say that I've got it, am I quarantined in the studio, or-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, well, there, the antibody already is negative, is already negative.
20. MBMike Baker
  Okay.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  So most likely, you don't have it.
22. MBMike Baker
  Oh, good. Okay, good. Might feel better.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  There you go.
24. MBMike Baker
  Well-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  How'd you... Turn- turn this thing towards you, will ya?
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, yeah. Sorry.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  There you go. No worries.
28. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, that's better.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  So how do you, how do you feel about all this? Are you weirded out? Like-
30. MBMike Baker
  No.
2:38 – 7:32
Politics distorts public health messaging (hydroxychloroquine debate)
1. MBMike Baker
  But you can also look at it and go, "We're kind of fucked," because part of this problem is the coverage of it, because of political reasons. Uh, not to jump right into the political thing, but, um, you know, I- I can't help but think that we wouldn't have quite as much confusion and we wouldn't have quite as much, uh, um, you know, the angst that people are feeling if, um, if it weren't for the sort of the- the visceral hatred that exists out there i- on some sectors for the president, right?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. MBMike Baker
  And again, I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I have a feeling like the tone of coverage will change in November if Biden wins. And- and not... The science doesn't change, right? It's still the same fucking virus. But I just have a feeling that we'll see a tone change. Um, suddenly it'll be a little bit more about if Biden wins, it'll be more about, "Well, yeah, let's, you know, let's look on the bright side. Let's get this coverage, you know, sorted out. Let's get the- the country working. Let's do these things." And, you know, again, you can believe both things. You can believe that we're fucked because of the politics, and you can also believe the science.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  My friend got, uh, tested, turned out positive, and the- the doctor asked him what his political leanings are. And he said, "Why?" And he said, "Well, I really believe in hydroxychloroquine, but a lot of people who are Democrats who don't like the president don't want to use it."
5. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm like, "That is hilarious." And he goes, "Hydroxychloroquine, when used correctly," he said, "particularly in the early stages of the virus, seems to be very effective." Now, there's all these people that are coming out and saying it's not, and there's all these people that are coming out... And I talked to my doctor about it, and I said, "Well, why do you think that it's- it's..." Because the doctor that I use currently, he recommends it for people that are high risk as a prophylactic.
7. MBMike Baker
  Mm-hmm.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the way Trump is supposedly taking it.
9. MBMike Baker
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  He's like, "It's actually... There's a study that shows that it's very effective, a study from Italy, that shows it's very effective as a prophylactic." And he says, "Also, when you- when you get it, um, you get the- catch the virus and then you get- get it quickly, so if you can get hydroxychloroquine in you quickly." But, you know, look, I'm a moron. I don't know who the fuck to believe.
11. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
12. JRJoe Rogan
  So I- I read all this shit. I'm like, "Well, do I believe the doctor? Do I believe all these other doctors that say it's bullshit?"
13. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
14. JRJoe Rogan
  "Do I believe that whole team of doctors?" By the way, Andrew Schulz has a fucking hilarious video on hydrochloroquine, like what is it. He did one of those, uh, Instagram videos.
15. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
16. JRJoe Rogan
  So go check that out. Um, but it's- it's one of those things where it's like, I wish the president didn't talk about it, 'cause then we would know what the fuck it is.
17. MBMike Baker
  Right.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Is it good? Is it bad? I mean, are people really not taking it just because the president is the one who endorsed it? Like that is so crazy.
19. MBMike Baker
  I think there's some... Yeah, I- I- I don't think there's any doubt about that, right? I mean, there's some-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  That's so crazy.
21. MBMike Baker
  So it's, it... Yeah, and people don't know, like you, to your point, people don't know what to believe, right?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. MBMike Baker
  And- and it's... It- it- it's one thing if- if, you know, the reporting, uh, or the- the, uh, dissemination of information is partisan during normal times. But you're talking about a public health crisis, and you would think we'd set all of that bullshit aside. I mean, if we can't come together as a country during a fucking public health crisis, what the hell is wrong? But... And it's both sides. Both sides are tossing hand grenades at each other, so it's not just one side or the other.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm gonna send Jamie this right now, 'cause this is from Newsweek. This is why it's really confusing. This is from Newsweek, and this is from, uh, a professor of epidemiology from, I believe, from...... yeah, from Yale School of Public Health.
25. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yale, and he says-
27. MBMike Baker
  I've heard of it.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... "The key to defeating COVID-19 -" (laughs)
29. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  ... "already exists. We need to start using it." And he's recommending hydroxychloroquine. Po- po... Did you get it there?
7:32 – 11:04
The ‘frontline doctors’ viral video, misinformation, and language taboos
1. JRJoe Rogan
  D- that la- Do you know that whole video where there's a bunch of doctors that keeps getting removed from YouTube-
2. MBMike Baker
  Oh, yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and Facebook-
4. MBMike Baker
  Mm-hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  ... with a bunch of doctors talking about hydroxychloroquine and Z-Paks and zinc? (laughs) Everybody's like, "You need to listen to this lady."
6. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Then it turns out the lady believes-
8. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  ... that the cause of impotence is spirits and she thinks there's alien DNA in vaccines. Is that what, is that what she said? A lot of stuff. (laughs)
10. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. It's, it's a little odd. And-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  "Shes- She's-"
12. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  "... completely off the reservation."
14. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, you're not supposed to say that, right? You're suppo- I think you're not supposed to say "off the reservation."
16. MBMike Baker
  Oh, w- well...
17. JRJoe Rogan
  It's, it's offensive to Indians.
18. MBMike Baker
  (sighs) Damn it.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. MBMike Baker
  Okay, hold on. Let me-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Just sh-
22. MBMike Baker
  ... ju- make a note of that. That one I didn't have-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  So, me and Len-
24. MBMike Baker
  ... on my list of what's offensive.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh, I was taught-
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... by a Native American lady.
28. MBMike Baker
  Okay.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  She went, "You're not supposed to say that one." Oh, she's, uh, off the chain. I think you could say that-
30. MBMike Baker
  Off the hook?
11:04 – 13:36
2020 election skepticism: polls, Biden’s fitness, and VP stakes
1. MBMike Baker
  What do you think is gonna happen in November?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  That's a good question. I'm not... Listen, I'm not buying these polls, I'll tell you that.
3. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't believe them. 'Cause first of all, who the fuck is answering polls? Who... I've always said that.
5. MBMike Baker
  Well, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  The dumbest people in the world are the ones who answer polls. So, out of the dumbest-
7. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... people in the world with nothing to do, most of them are picking Biden or more of them are picking Biden. But it says who? Says all of the media outlets that want Trump to lose? How do we know?
9. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  How do we know if they're being accurate? I mean, look, I believe there is a large group of people that are very uncomfortable with Donald Trump being the president. I absolutely believe that. I believe there's an also large group of people that are very uncomfortable with a man who seems to be mentally compromised winning the election, and doing so by hiding.
11. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, the guy's never a- He was just at another thing the other day and he forgot where he was. Did you see the video?
13. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, yeah. No, un- until he comes out with his VP pick-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
15. MBMike Baker
  ... um, I, I... All bets are off as far as I'm concerned on, on Biden. And-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  That VP is gonna have-
17. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  ... a bucket of lube and she's gonna dunk it in there and stuff her hand up his ass and she's gonna be working him like Weekend at Bernie's.
19. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
20. JRJoe Rogan
  There is no way that guy's gonna be doing any talking.
21. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, I don't know if you c- could do that, I guess physically, I guess you could do-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  You're gonna have to.
23. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, yeah. It could happen, yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Kamala Harris is a strong woman.
25. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  I think she could do it.
27. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, you think, it, it, do you think she's the pick?
28. JRJoe Rogan
  She could win.
29. MBMike Baker
  Yeah?
30. JRJoe Rogan
  She could do it, yeah. She, she would make sense to people 'cause she's a powerful woman. Like, you know, she's got a ... She was a former district attorney, she's a-
13:36 – 20:01
Benghazi and how narratives get constructed (Susan Rice’s ‘hit’)
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Isn't there some controversy with her regarding Benghazi?
2. MBMike Baker
  (clicks tongue) There is, but, um, (laughs) and, and, and rightly so, right? She went out ... The, the whole story was she went out after, uh ... Wow, how many year ... Man, isn't that incredible? Uh, going on eight years ago. September 11, 2012. So shortly afterwards, um, she went on TV. She did a series of interviews right afterwards, uh, as sort of the face of the administration, talking about this. And she utilized a bunch of talking points that had been prepared by the intel community, right? Um, led at the time by John Brennan and some others. And in that, that's where it, it in, you know, famously blamed the video that came out, and the protests in Cairo, and then, oh my God, it escalated-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  You're good with me-
4. MBMike Baker
  That movie, yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  What, what-
6. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  What exact ... You see ... Okay, listen. You used to work for the CIA.
8. MBMike Baker
  Mm-hmm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Used to. I don't know if you still do, let's be honest.
10. MBMike Baker
  Well ... (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  But used to-
12. MBMike Baker
  We're gonna start-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't know if you ever-
14. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
15. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't know if it'll ever get out. But the ... That movie seemed like if there was any ... If there was ever some movie that was made to sort of be used as a cover-up, that movie did not look like a real movie. That-
16. MBMike Baker
  No.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Right?
18. MBMike Baker
  Well, it wasn't-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Right?
20. MBMike Baker
  It wasn't really a ... I mean, it wasn't a-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  What?
22. MBMike Baker
  It wasn't-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Explain-
24. MBMike Baker
  It wasn't a James Cameron movie, it wasn't a-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Explain to people what the fuck we're talking about.
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, look, it was, it was made by an independent filmmaker, and it was perceived as, as very, uh, uh-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Islamophobic.
28. MBMike Baker
  ... anti-Islamic, yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
30. MBMike Baker
  And, and, but the, the, the bottom line was, I mean, for, for Susan Rice, if you're just looking 'cause you're at ... You've, you've actually pinpointed the one chink in her armor, right? I can't say that anymore, can I?
20:01 – 25:55
Portland/Seattle unrest: hijacked protests and ‘defund the police’ critique
1. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the solution. I think the solution's somewhere in the center. And when, when you see shit like what's happening in Portland and Seattle, I think people are more aware than ever now that civil unrest is like... It's, it's very strange. It's very strange to watch them try to break into that... What, what was the building in Portland they were trying to break into?
2. MBMike Baker
  Uh, the Hatfield, uh, Courthouse.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. MBMike Baker
  Uh, the, uh, the Federal Courthouse. Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  W- that was insane.
6. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Watching that-
8. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  ... was insane. I d- I don't understand the motivation. Like, the-
10. MBMike Baker
  Well, there's, you, yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... connecting that to, how I, how do you connect that in Portland, the most liberal city in the country, how do you pr- how do you... Ar- arguably, right? Probably the most liberal.
12. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  The most progressive.
14. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. Seattle. Yeah. Portland.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It's right there.
16. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  How do you connect that to Black Lives Matter? I mean, how do you connect that to George Floyd's death? How do you connect that to... W- why? Why are you... Why... I just don't understand. Why would you try to break into the courthouse? They're, they're trying to recreate what went wrong, what didn't work in Seattle, right? That whole, uh, zone... Uh, autonomous zone.
18. MBMike Baker
  Chester, or... Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  That didn't work. I mean, that was nonsense. It was crazy. You made a worse version of America in six blocks. It's like one of those little tiny, uh-
22. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  ... little, you know, like if you took like a glass dome and you put like little animals in there and you let 'em eat each other alive.
24. MBMike Baker
  (laughs) Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, that was like, "We're gonna, we're gonna create utopia in glass." Like-
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... they, they made a worse version of the United States. They put up borders immediately. They stopped people from coming in. They had armed guards. They wind up, uh, using police ty- they didn't have cops, but they had people that acted like cops, and beat the fuck out of people for filming.
28. MBMike Baker
  Right.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  The whole thing was madness.
30. MBMike Baker
  Right. Nah.
25:55 – 33:44
Statues, historical context, and the ‘righteous mob’ dynamic
1. JRJoe Rogan
  The problem is the people that hijack that and are trying to light the federal buildings on fire and, and smash monuments. The, you know... Uh, particularly Monu- I mean, like, they're going after Abraham Lincoln. I mean, Jesus Christ.
2. MBMike Baker
  Right, right.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  He, he's the guy that freed the fucking slaves. Like, what are we doing? Are we gonna erase history? Yeah. Well, it'll... I would have loved if Abraham Lincoln coulda had a time machine and gone to 2020 and understood what we know now about systemic racism. However, he lived in the 1700s when you wrote with a fucking feather.
4. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay? Give the guy a break.
6. MBMike Baker
  (laughs) Well...
7. JRJoe Rogan
  The, the world was a weir- d- uh, it was a weird place back then.
8. MBMike Baker
  Well, and that's, and that's part of it is, is trying to, trying to judge people of the past by current morals or current understanding, current thinking is, is, uh, is pretty absurd, right? It doesn't justify past bad actions.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
10. MBMike Baker
  But, you know what? Th- this idea, yeah, that you're going to erase history or remove history or not learn from it, uh, going forward, i- is... It discredits the ability of people to have rational thought, right? To, to understand and look at it, at a context.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. MBMike Baker
  Look at, at, at something in context and say, "Okay, nowadays, that's unacceptable. But okay, I get, uh, you know, why these things occurred. It's tragic or it's regrettable, whatever." But, yeah, I mean, look, uh, in, in the UK, they were, you know, they were attacking the statue of Churchill.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
14. MBMike Baker
  I mean, holy fuck.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It's crazy.
16. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, and-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, I think I said... Did I just say Lincoln 1700s? I meant 1800. Well, it was 1865, right?
18. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  But either way, the, the idea that this guy is supposed to be a perfect person back then... Look, history is supposed to be about th- the things that happened, the people that made a difference, and how we got to where we are today, and Lincoln is a big part. The 1865, the Emancipation Proclamation, that's a big part of how we are who we are today. It's... Look, i- it's horrible that the early settlers brought over slaves from Africa. It's horrible that slaves still exist today. All these things are horrible.
20. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  They're horrible. But taking down statues of people that made a difference and made change... Look, if you wanna take a s- if you wanna take down statues of, uh, c- confederate generals and stuff like that, there's a good argument there. It's a good argument that maybe we shouldn't have those or maybe we should have them somewhere. You know, like, the, like in the same place we have a statue of Genghis Khan.
22. MBMike Baker
  Right. (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, maybe they shouldn't be... You know what I'm saying?
24. MBMike Baker
  Is there a statue of Genghis Khan?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm sure there is.
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah, somewhere.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Somewhere. In Mongolia, there's gotta be, right?
28. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Look, Genghis Khan killed 10% of the fucking population while he was alive. L- but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recognition of this historical figure when you're talking about 2020.
30. MBMike Baker
  Well, I think in... Interestingly, and this doesn't... Again, you know, you can, you can... The problem is nowadays, right? You've got, uh, you've got sort of the righteous mob on the left and the righteous mob on the right.
33:44 – 45:44
Who funds and organizes unrest? ‘Follow the money’ and media incentives
1. JRJoe Rogan
  ... people getting shot in the streets in protests. You know, um, I know that there's, uh, a real concern, uh, that a lot of these cities that, that they're gonna... Someone's gonna try to recreate what happened in Seattle, recreate what happened in Portland, and they're worried about it. The, the thing about it is it seems so organized. It really does. It doesn't seem that haphazard. It seems organized. How does, how does, how do these things get started? Like, how do you get something as big as these Portland riots?
2. MBMike Baker
  Well, uh, uh, you know, it's a, it's a really good question. And sometimes what you see is a, what appears to be a grassroots movement or grassroots activity-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. MBMike Baker
  ... happening, just kind of swelling up from, from a couple of neighborhoods. Yes, there was an element of that, but you also see, like, if you're talking about, um, you know, um, talking about activist environmental groups as an example, you'll also see some commonality between some of these groups. You'll see commonality b- in, in communications advice, in financing, in, in legal assistance and support-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. MBMike Baker
  ... s- from national groups, right? And yet it's in their, um, it's in their agenda, it's, uh, to their advantage to make it appear as if it's a grassroots movement. So that all stays in the background. I'd argue that, you know, yeah, some of this, um, uh, and again, not to disappear down some rabbit hole where it's a George Soros-funded thing-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  That's where I was going.
8. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. But I mean, you know, is there... are, are there some elements that help with, uh, communication support or, uh, transportation assistance or legal advice or, uh, whatever it may be? Uh, absolutely. You know, these things, uh, they, they, uh, very rarely is there an actual genuine organic grassroots movement that has no, uh, outside organizational support.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  That's this spontaneous-
10. MBMike Baker
  That's... Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and this big.
12. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. So, uh, but again, I, you know, (sighs) look, I...
13. JRJoe Rogan
  We get-
14. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  We're putting our tinfoil hats on right now.
16. MBMike Baker
  Well, I tell... (laughs) You know-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  But if anybody-
18. MBMike Baker
  I'm still looking around.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... can keep that on-
20. MBMike Baker
  Oh.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you, you can put them on.
22. MBMike Baker
  I left mine out in the car, but-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. But you-
24. MBMike Baker
  ... I'll go get it.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you've been on the inside-
26. MBMike Baker
  (sighs) .
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you know, working for the CIA. You know how it works.
28. MBMike Baker
  Well, we very rarely organized things like this. (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  That's not what I'm saying.
30. MBMike Baker
  Uh, I don't... (laughs)
45:44 – 49:31
The collapse of ‘objective’ news and the rise of fragmented information
1. MBMike Baker
  If people have five seconds of free time on their hands, they don't know what to do. So they get their phones. They say, "Okay, well, if nothing else, at least I look like everybody else staring at my phone." But I think one of the interesting things is with news dissemination is if you go back to (sighs) you know, the '50s, the '60s, uh, '70s, we had a, a shared moment, right? Every day, for the most part, right? Everybody would sit down at, whatever, five o'clock or 11 o'clock across the country, and you'd watch the news on one of three, basically three outlets, ABC, NBC, or CBS. And so for that moment, if you think about it, the vast majority of people who were paying attention to this were getting their, their news delivered from the same one of three sources. There was a sh- there was a commonality there. And they would, you know, process it differently based on their own experiences and beliefs, but at least there was that point of commonality. And that disappeared, right?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. MBMike Baker
  That doesn't happen anymore.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
5. MBMike Baker
  And, and I don't... You know, I don't know where I'm going with that, just banging on about it, but I find it interesting.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  There's n- There's no objective news source anymore. That's a problem as well. There's a left news source-
7. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and a right news source. There's no straight-up Walter Cronkite person that's giving us the facts.
9. MBMike Baker
  Well, Walter had his, had his, had his own, you know, beliefs too.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Maybe he's a bad example.
11. MBMike Baker
  Well, no, no, no.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  But he's objective.
13. MBMike Baker
  But it's, it's as close as you're gonna get to a good example, right?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Yeah.
15. MBMike Baker
  You just didn't know it. It wasn't in your face, right?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  I would like to see someone today-
17. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  ... that tells you the real facts, you know?
19. MBMike Baker
  Well, I've said this before is if, if you... It's a cash-heavy business. If you had the, if you had the capital to set up a, uh, an outlet that simply told you what the fuck happened that day, right? And here's your news.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
21. MBMike Baker
  I'm not gonna... I'm not gonna have any opinion hours. I'm not gonna have any, any commentary. We're not gonna have a panel discuss it and tell us what it might mean. We're just gonna, we're gonna take the top events of the day, and maybe two or three times a day, here's your news, right?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. MBMike Baker
  And we're gonna take the time to research it. And that was the other thing about having a newscast at 5:00 and a newscast at 11:00. You had all day long as a, as an, as a media business to check your facts, to get it right.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
25. MBMike Baker
  And you weren't playing beat the clock with, with every mook with a, with a smartphone, right-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
27. MBMike Baker
  ... who now thinks they're a blogger or a vlogger or whatever.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
29. MBMike Baker
  So yeah, I... But I think that would be... I think that'd actually be very successful because I, I think people do want-They want the, the ability to, or the comfort of thinking, "Yeah. Maybe this is legitimate. Maybe, you know-"
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. They want, they want someone who's pure that way. I think the only people that are doing it like that are independents. There is a few of them out there.
49:31 – 57:23
Cancel culture, conformity, and why people fear dissent
1. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you, you're gonna have a lot of people working for you. Like, good luck keeping them all unbiased, especially today. If you're getting some kid fresh out of college and he's 22 or she's, you know, you know, getting her, her graduate degree, you're gonna get kids that have gone through this system that we're, we're trying to, uh, trying to rectify. The, the, the university system today is filled with woke politics.
2. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  They're indoctrinating kids. And a lot of these kids that are getting out, they have this idea in their head before their frontal lobe is even fully formed of what is good and what is bad and what is right and what is wrong and what you're supposed to do.
4. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? And a lot of it is, like, it's, it's, it's really distorted and weird.
6. MBMike Baker
  Well, my daughter who, uh, my daughter who works in Washington DC now, um, is getting a really good look at, at how, uh, government works. Um, when she was in college, and she's, you know, she's more Republican than most, you know, um, of her friends that were in college. You know? 'Cause you're, to your point, she's very liberal, right?
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. MBMike Baker
  And she used to talk about that. She said she rarely had a debate, she rarely had a moment where she would speak up in class and take a, uh, the opposite point because, she said, "There's no upside to it."
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
10. MBMike Baker
  Right? "I wanna get good grades."
11. JRJoe Rogan
  You just get attacked-
12. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and then people think-
14. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you're a racist-
16. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and then the professor will hate you.
18. MBMike Baker
  Right, and that was it.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. MBMike Baker
  And that was a big part of it. She said, "Look, I, my, my goal here was to get good grades."
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. MBMike Baker
  And it was clear that, you know, taking the opposite position from the professor or the, uh, or the, the, the, the teaching assistant wasn't gonna get me where I wanted to be.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  No, you're fucked.
24. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. And you, and people adapt too. That's the other thing about human beings. When you're confronted by a large majority of people that think one way, you will change and amend your thinking to fit in. We don't like to be on the outside. We don't like-
26. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... to be, you, you know. There's a few very strong-minded rebels out there in the world, but most people are conformists. Most people just, they think they're rebellious, but they're rebellious along with a group of other people that think almost the exact same way and those are the people they hang out with.
28. MBMike Baker
  Right. I got on the, I got on the Tube one time when I was living in London, uh, a few years back and, uh, and it was during... There was a, there was a, (laughs) there was a, it wasn't the mullet craze, it was the goatee craze, right?
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
30. MBMike Baker
  There was... Every dude was wearing a goatee. So I, I came back from, I was, uh, I forget where I was working overseas, but while I was, I was out there, before I went back to London, I thought, "Oh fuck, I'll grow a goatee. That seems to be the thing to do." So I grow a goatee, right? I get back to London, uh, and it literally was like the next day I was back there. I get on the Tube and I walk into the car. I'm standing there and I look down the, the, the car and every dude in that car (laughs) had a goatee. And I thought, "Holy fuck." (laughs) So I went home and shaved.
57:23 – 1:10:49
Comic detour: Slurpees, sneezing stigma, and pet stories
1. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. Yahweh sounds like a- a chain of a gas stations on the highway.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
3. MBMike Baker
  So ... (laughs)
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, right?
5. MBMike Baker
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  With the convenience store attached to it with Slurpees and shit.
7. MBMike Baker
  Oh, I used to love Slurpees.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  They're-
9. MBMike Baker
  Cola. Cola Slurpees.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  The- they're delicious.
11. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
12. JRJoe Rogan
  I like that blue one, whatever the fuck that-
13. MBMike Baker
  What is that blue one?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  ... non-nat- non-natural drink. (laughs)
15. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. (laughs)
16. JRJoe Rogan
  What do they even call that? What's the blue one?
17. MBMike Baker
  I- I drove up to, uh ... The boys finished swim team the other day and- and I had all three of 'em, Scooter and Sluggo and Mugsy in the car. And I said, "I ... You know, let's stop. I'll ... You guys hungry." And of course they ... 'Cause they were young, they were like, "Yeah, let's go to McDonald's." So, uh, I asked, uh, Mugsy, the youngest, I said, "What do you want?" And he says, uh, uh, "Nuggets and- and, uh, and that blue thing."
18. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
19. MBMike Baker
  So my ... So I got out to the window and I says, "Can we help you?" And I said, "Yeah, I'll take, uh, 10-piece Nuggets and that, uh, medium blue thing." I had no idea what it was. Turned out it's- it's raspberry flavor. Blue raspberry.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Blue is raspberry?
21. MBMike Baker
  Yeah. It's like slushy something. But, uh-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  But raspberries aren't blue.
23. MBMike Baker
  Not that I know of. But, uh, once you finish, uh, manipulating them, uh, in the DNA, uh, uh, cata- ... I- I ... Who knows?
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
25. MBMike Baker
  Genetically modified raspberries. But ... So, uh, yeah, but I ... Now I'm thinking about Slurpees. I'm gonna get one.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  They're ... It's a delicious beverage. I wish it wasn't so fucking terrible for you and I wish it didn't-
27. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... give you brain freezes.
29. MBMike Baker
  (laughs)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  'Cause I'm greedy.