Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1521 - Josh Dubin & Jason Flom

Josh Dubin is an Innocence Project Ambassador Advisor &  President of Dubin Research and Consulting, Inc. He also hosts a podcast called "Wrongful Conviction: Junk Science" available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. https://apple.co/2Q5EtHd Jason Flom is an Innocence Project Board Member, CEO of Lava Media, and host of the "Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom" podcast available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. https://apple.co/2EJxrF3 https://www.innocenceproject.org/ https://famm.org/ https://www.first72plus.org/

Joe RoganhostJosh DubinguestJason Flomguest
Aug 5, 20202h 54mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Fighting Junk Science and Mass Incarceration: Inside Wrongful Convictions

  1. Joe Rogan speaks with Innocence Project advocates Josh Dubin and Jason Flom about wrongful convictions, junk forensic science, and the systemic drivers of mass incarceration in the U.S.
  2. They detail harrowing cases of innocent people on death row, coerced confessions, planted evidence, and discredited forensic methods like bite marks, blood spatter, arson analysis, and shaken baby syndrome.
  3. The conversation broadens into the war on drugs, cash bail, racial disparities, and the near-total lack of accountability for prosecutors, judges, and police who enable wrongful convictions.
  4. Throughout, they outline ways listeners can help: supporting the Innocence Project, pressuring governors and local officials, serving on juries thoughtfully, and voting in DA and judicial races.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Most forensic disciplines used in court, aside from DNA, are scientifically unsound.

Bite mark analysis, blood spatter, arson investigation, shoe tread comparisons, and shaken baby syndrome diagnosis have been repeatedly debunked, yet remain admissible and have helped send countless innocent people to prison or death row.

The system incentivizes convictions over truth, creating a 'win at all costs' culture.

Prosecutors and some police treat cases like a game where a conviction is the 'W'; even when exonerating evidence appears, they often double down to protect prior verdicts and their careers instead of correcting errors.

Coerced confessions are common, and anyone can be vulnerable to them.

Interrogators are legally allowed to lie, deprive suspects of sleep and food, and use psychological pressure; adolescents, people with mental vulnerabilities, and even military veterans are especially prone to falsely confess after hours of such tactics.

Cash bail and pretrial detention drive guilty pleas and trap the poor.

People too poor to post bail often lose jobs, housing, and family stability if they stay jailed, so many plead guilty quickly just to get out—even when innocent—fueling mass incarceration without improving public safety.

The war on drugs and mandatory minimums have massively expanded the prison population.

Nonviolent drug offenses, especially simple possession (including marijuana), still account for huge numbers of arrests and incarcerations, disproportionately impacting poor communities and people of color while failing to reduce crime.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

The justice system is an efficient eating and killing machine for poor people of color.

— Josh Dubin quoting Innocence Project attorney Chris Fabricant

What percentage of innocent people are you okay with executing?

— Jason Flom

Every time we convict an innocent person, the real perpetrator remains free.

— Jason Flom

There is no presumption of innocence. We throw that around like it exists. It doesn't exist.

— Josh Dubin

The war on drugs is one of the most disgusting and confusing aspects of our enlightened culture.

— Joe Rogan

Innocence Project work and the scope of wrongful convictionsJunk forensic science (bite marks, blood spatter, arson, shaken baby syndrome)Individual exoneration stories and life on death rowCoerced and false confessions, interrogation tactics, and police lyingMass incarceration, the war on drugs, and racial disparitiesCash bail, poverty, and the plea-bargain machineAccountability (or lack thereof) for prosecutors, judges, and police

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome