Joe Rogan Experience #1546 - Evan Hafer & Mat Best

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:02

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, gentlemen.

   4. NANarrator0:13

      Great.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      We're rolling. (laughs)

   6. EHEvan Hafer0:15

      We're rolling. Holy shit.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      (laughs)

   8. NANarrator0:17

      (laughs)

   9. EHEvan Hafer0:17

      With pleasure.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Evan and Matt. Well, I've known you guys for a long time.

   11. EHEvan Hafer0:20

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       And I've enjoyed your coffee for a long time, so, um, I'm happy you guys could come on here and talk some shit.

   13. EHEvan Hafer0:24

       Appreciate it.

   14. NANarrator0:25

       Yeah.

   15. EHEvan Hafer0:25

       I love it. I love being on shows with Matt, especially with you. This is fucking incredible.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Dude, your ridiculous setup that you put in the kitchen, with all the- the coffee and the espresso, I videotaped it so people could see, but the m-measuring of the weight-

   17. EHEvan Hafer0:38

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       ... of the grams of the espresso, what ... I know you got into it bef- you were into coffee before you were in the military, right?

   19. EHEvan Hafer0:45

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       And then you started bringing coffee and a roaster and a whole setup with you overseas. But, like, were you this, like, measuring it and the- the exact temperature of the water and all that jazz?

   21. EHEvan Hafer0:58

       Oh, yeah. I- I think, like, way back, uh, in late 90s, I guess, is probably where it all began. And I always say this, where, you know, every good story starts with a- with a- with a good check basically, and I met this barista back in the late 90s, and she turned me onto espresso. So, I started really going down the rabbit hole on coffee.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       So, she was just, like, really into espresso or something?

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:24

       She wasn't. She was just ... she was hot, and she was-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       (laughs)

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:28

       ... she was- she was a barista, so ... but that was the- the- the gateway to this entire thing. And, uh, then as I continued to kind of evolve my- my coffee nerd, you know, sense of me, I- I, uh, I- I kind of was like, "Well, you know what? This Green Beret thing sounds pretty cool. I would love to be able to do that, jump out of planes and maybe overthrow some countries. That's- that sounds pretty rad."

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       (laughs)

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:54

       Um, but it never left. And so I was still way into coffee. I was roasting coffee on fires and on my stove and getting different, weird espresso machines and ... The funny thing is, back in, when I was an SF guy, people would make fun of me all the time, like, "You hipster douchebag."

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       (laughs)

   29. EHEvan Hafer2:13

       "What are you doing?"

   30. NANarrator2:14

       If we worked together I would have made fun of you a lot.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   That Ethiopian shit that…

   1. EHEvan Hafer15:00

      place.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      That Ethiopian shit that you sent me?

   3. EHEvan Hafer15:02

      So it's a coast- it's a Costa Rican.

   4. NANarrator15:03

      This is delicious.

   5. EHEvan Hafer15:03

      Yeah, what'd you think of that Ethiopian?

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      It's the fucking bomb diggity, man.

   7. EHEvan Hafer15:05

      Really?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      I love it. I lo- I, I was turned onto Ethiopian coffee. I had this guy, Peter Giuliano, he's a coffee expert back in the day.

   9. EHEvan Hafer15:12

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       I had him on the podcast like a few years back.

   11. NANarrator15:14

       Okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       I was just interested. I was like, "What, like what is it?" Like, uh, w- these p- people that are really into coffee, I started reading about people who were really into coffee. I'm like, "I wanna know what the fuck is going on." Like, what is happening? Like, these real heavy coffee nerds. 'Cause I would just get coffee and pour cream in it, and then-

   13. EHEvan Hafer15:30

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       ... I was into like MCT oil-

   15. EHEvan Hafer15:32

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       ... and grass-fed butter in coffee for a while. But the problem with that is people on the podcast got so annoyed with me going (clears throat) every 30 seconds.

   17. EHEvan Hafer15:40

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       (clears throat) 'Cause you've got all this grass-fed-

   19. EHEvan Hafer15:43

       Yeah, I know.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       ... butter and MCT oil in your throat.

   21. EHEvan Hafer15:45

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       Just like coats you and when you're ... Um, so I got this guy Peter Giuliano come on and he just explained to me the whole thing, how all coffee came from Ethiopia.

   23. EHEvan Hafer15:53

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       And then, and then the difference between, uh, wet processing and dry processing, and, and coffee rust and all these different things.

   25. EHEvan Hafer16:01

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       I'm like, "What?" And we went down a rabbit hole for like three hours.

   27. NANarrator16:03

       The best analogy I have for coffee, it's so similar to wine. Right? You have the wine connoisseurs that can taste all the tasty notes and all that, then you have the average consumer that goes and buys, bought a box just to get drunk-

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Yeah.

   29. NANarrator16:14

       ... or just for the caffeine. It's very similar where if you go down the rabbit hole, like Evan specifically, I mean, there's-

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       With everything. Cigars, with everything.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Oh, that's nice. …

   1. NANarrator30:00

      That's my favorite part about living in Texas, is I live a bunch next to hillbillies. And I mean that in a complimentary sense, but like my neighbor, I don't know, two months ago is like, "Hey man, I just killed a bison on this ranch. I got like extra meat." And he gave me like 150 (laughs) pounds of, you know-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      Oh, that's nice.

   3. NANarrator30:13

      ... organic bison, so I mean, I love it 'cause everybody's killing shit around here and-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      Yeah.

   5. NANarrator30:17

      ... you eat so good.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Well, at my studio in LA, I had three commercial freezers. So when-

   7. NANarrator30:22

      Yep.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:22

      ... when dudes would come over, I'd give-

   9. EHEvan Hafer30:24

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:24

       ... everybody meat.

   11. NANarrator30:25

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:26

       I, I gave meat to people that you would, you know, never think would be out there eating elk. (laughs)

   13. NANarrator30:30

       Just never put your freezer on a GFI switch. I learned the hard way in my, in my, uh, garage.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:36

       Yeah.

   15. NANarrator30:36

       The GFI switch went off and I didn't check my freezer for like four days.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       Oh.

   17. NANarrator30:40

       Ruined three axis and one, uh, white tail, so like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       I would think that three days it would still be frozen.

   19. NANarrator30:45

       Not in the Texas sun or in the garage.

   20. EHEvan Hafer30:47

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       But if it's a good seal, like a really high-end freezer?

   22. NANarrator30:50

       Probably not. I think I bought a cheap one-

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       'Cause-

   24. NANarrator30:52

       ... that first time.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       When my, um, the, my neighborhood caught fire a couple years back-

   26. NANarrator30:56

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       ... and I had a, uh, freezer, commercial freezer in my garage-

   28. NANarrator31:00

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       ... we had evacuated, but my friend Bud stayed by and, um, when the firefighters were in the, the area, I said, "Hey man," I go, "Go into the freezer." I go, "That meat is still gonna be good."

   30. NANarrator31:11

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Right. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      and that-

   2. EHEvan Hafer45:00

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      ... that kinda shit, it's like, "What is this?" It just doesn't make sense to your body. And I think we've gotten into this processed food thing. And processed food is a- almost entirely, like, if y- if you, like, y- it's, first of all, it's a human, it's a new human creation.

   4. EHEvan Hafer45:18

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:19

      And it's, uh, it's, it should never be your first choice.

   6. EHEvan Hafer45:22

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      Your first choice should be natural foods. You know, your first choice should be sh- look, apple, steak, all that, that's normal.

   8. EHEvan Hafer45:30

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:30

      You can eat that. That's easy. Your body knows what the fuck to do with that. But, you know, you get into, like, seed oils-

   10. EHEvan Hafer45:36

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       ... and all these, like, really heavily processed seed oils, like, there's real evidence that that is a, a giant part of what's wrong with the health of Americans today, is these ultra-processed vegetable oils.

   12. EHEvan Hafer45:47

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:47

       They're fucking terrible for you.

   14. EHEvan Hafer45:49

       But it, it, it doesn't seem to me, like, that's a stretch in logic, right?

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       No.

   16. EHEvan Hafer45:53

       So, for just the American diet in general, for us to look at the traditional food pyramid and say, "Well, that's bullshit," ultimately, you know, if, if grains and ultim- and processed foods sit at the, the cornerstone of your entire diet, you're gonna have some issues. You can kinda look around. You don't even have to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:13

       (laughs)

   18. EHEvan Hafer46:14

       Right? It's like, holy shit, obesity is an epidemic in the United States.

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       Yeah.

   20. EHEvan Hafer46:18

       We're eating a ton of processed food, and all the guys that I know that are healthy are eating whole foods for the most part. And it's not because you have more discipline or because you have more access or wealth. I know a ton of guys that are not very wealthy that eat whole foods, and they're feeding in certain windows, and they're still in the military, still doing fucking incredibly difficult missions, and they're really healthy. So, when I look around, I say, "Well, okay, if you stick to whole foods and you limit your amount of caloric intake, we're not dealing in a high, you know, uh, uh, high intellect thought process here. It should be pretty easy." But I think what people want is they want their easy button, right? They're like-

   21. JRJoe Rogan47:00

       Well, you're hungry-

   22. NANarrator47:00

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       ... you see Jack in the Box, you pull in, you get a burger.

   24. EHEvan Hafer47:03

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       You're like, "Oh, now I feel better." But meanwhile, you just forced some shit into your system. Now your system's gotta burn off all this bullshit that you poured in there. But there's even foods that people think are healthy that are not really good for you. Like, for instance, white rice-... is better than brown rice.

   26. NANarrator47:19

       Yes.

   27. EHEvan Hafer47:19

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:19

       Like, people think white rice, like, "Oh, I'll have brown rice. I'm being healthy."

   29. NANarrator47:23

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:23

       "I'll have b- brown rice."
5. 1:00:00 – 1:07:08

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. NANarrator1:00:00

      the issues they have, like I think I have PTSD, if, that that's a guy saying they're PTS. They go through and they find out they have TBI and 40% memory function, short-term memory function-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. NANarrator1:00:09

      ... and so now you go to cognitive therapy and you get the g- like, guys or gals working through it that way. But the only way to figure that out is through brain scans, and blood work, and actually focusing on the individual rather than being lazy and say, "Hey, here's some anti-depressants," when the whole time the issue was something completely different.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

      And then you have budget problems, right?

   5. NANarrator1:00:26

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

      Right.

   7. EHEvan Hafer1:00:27

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

      So the veterans hospitals don't have enough money to send you through all these different scans and all these different doctors and specialists and try to fine tune what's wrong with you. And-

   9. EHEvan Hafer1:00:36

      Well, I think that that's... You know, one of the things that we talk about a lot is the, our, our politicians will say, or leadership, they, they love to go to war.

   10. NANarrator1:00:49

       Yeah.

   11. EHEvan Hafer1:00:49

       They love it. Like, you know, "Hey, how many times can we send more guys to war? How many countries..." You know, and, and I'm, I'm a participant in that endeavor, by the way, right? I've invaded Iraq. Uh, I've spent a lot of my adult life i- in, in war, uh, specifically in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But the thing that I've noticed in my adult life is that politicians love it. They love to send, you know, 18 to 26-year-old men and women, they love to send them to war. What they hate is paying the fucking bill.

   12. NANarrator1:01:19

       Right.

   13. EHEvan Hafer1:01:19

       That's what they hate. They hate paying for the aftereffects. They hate standing by their word in the sense of, "Hey, we're gonna take care of you, your, all your health problems, your education. We're gonna start really, uh, fixing the VA system so there's long-term care." What most veterans that I know, what they have to do is they have to continue to lobby the government over and over and over for them to prove that what's happened to their body is connected to their service. But the issue that I c- I continue to see is that this is a lack of, of one, it's a lack of experience from our politicians. They don't quite understand what war is and the long-term effects on individual soldiers. Uh, after decades of service and, I think, you know, hundreds of my friends, every one of... Every one of us has some type of long-term effect from their service, every one of us, in the sense of do you have sleep issues? Do you have, you know, gut issues? Do you have e- inflamma- you know, inflammation? Are you missing a limb? And really, it's, it's disgusting the amount of, uh, emphasis there is on going-

   14. NANarrator1:02:32

       Right.

   15. EHEvan Hafer1:02:32

       ... and then the lack of emphasis on care. It really, it, it saddens me as a society when we have to rely on nonprofits-

   16. NANarrator1:02:41

       Right.

   17. EHEvan Hafer1:02:42

       ... to pay for the care of veterans.

   18. NANarrator1:02:44

       Well, I think that's a...

   19. EHEvan Hafer1:02:45

       Because the, the military or the DOD and the tax- the taxpayer essentially, and I think if they understood this, if they knew they weren't paying for the long-term care of our service members to the degree that they needed, they would absolutely have no issues stepping up and saying, "Hey, we have to do something about this." Uh, and it's... It, it's really, when we look at the entire system and how it's, it's put together, there's no way that a person... This is a good story from my friend Clint. He's missing both his legs recently from last year. During COVID, what was happening is that his leg was changing as far as the shape of it, because he was growing an addition- additional layer of bone where his leg was blown off, and he needed a new leg, but he couldn't get in to get a new leg, so he was confined to his wheelchair for almost six months during this-

   20. NANarrator1:03:39

       Uh-huh.

   21. EHEvan Hafer1:03:39

       ... process, and he couldn't get an appointment. There's no reason why that should happen.

   22. NANarrator1:03:43

       It's- yeah, it's unacceptable.

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:03:44

       There's literally zero reason. We can't have the largest transfer of wealth from a taxpayer into the military industrial complex in modern history without zero ethical argument as far as our entire political system, and then not continue to care for our veterans. There's just no way that we can do that as a society, because I think ultimately that defines us and who we are collectively, and it's not a good grade.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:09

       Well, there's a long history of the United States doing that.

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:04:11

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:11

       Remember when people were coming back from the first Gulf War and they were having all these issues with radiation because they used the... What, what is, uh, depleted uranium-

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:04:19

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04:19

       ... rounds?

   29. NANarrator1:04:20

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:20

       And, you know, they kinda denied, first of all, that they used them. They denied that this effect was related to that, and then, uh, birth defects and all sorts of like r- weird radiation sickness issues that people were having. They were calling it Gulf War syndrome.

Episode duration: 2:49:35