Joe Rogan Experience #1546 - Evan Hafer & Mat Best

1. 0:02 – 3:53

   Coffee obsession meets Special Forces: Evan’s origin story

   1. NANarrator0:02

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, gentlemen.

   4. NANarrator0:13

      Great.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      We're rolling. (laughs)

   6. EHEvan Hafer0:15

      We're rolling. Holy shit.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      (laughs)

   8. NANarrator0:17

      (laughs)

   9. EHEvan Hafer0:17

      With pleasure.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Evan and Matt. Well, I've known you guys for a long time.

   11. EHEvan Hafer0:20

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       And I've enjoyed your coffee for a long time, so, um, I'm happy you guys could come on here and talk some shit.

   13. EHEvan Hafer0:24

       Appreciate it.

   14. NANarrator0:25

       Yeah.

   15. EHEvan Hafer0:25

       I love it. I love being on shows with Matt, especially with you. This is fucking incredible.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Dude, your ridiculous setup that you put in the kitchen, with all the- the coffee and the espresso, I videotaped it so people could see, but the m-measuring of the weight-

   17. EHEvan Hafer0:38

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       ... of the grams of the espresso, what ... I know you got into it bef- you were into coffee before you were in the military, right?

   19. EHEvan Hafer0:45

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       And then you started bringing coffee and a roaster and a whole setup with you overseas. But, like, were you this, like, measuring it and the- the exact temperature of the water and all that jazz?

   21. EHEvan Hafer0:58

       Oh, yeah. I- I think, like, way back, uh, in late 90s, I guess, is probably where it all began. And I always say this, where, you know, every good story starts with a- with a- with a good check basically, and I met this barista back in the late 90s, and she turned me onto espresso. So, I started really going down the rabbit hole on coffee.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       So, she was just, like, really into espresso or something?

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:24

       She wasn't. She was just ... she was hot, and she was-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       (laughs)

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:28

       ... she was- she was a barista, so ... but that was the- the- the gateway to this entire thing. And, uh, then as I continued to kind of evolve my- my coffee nerd, you know, sense of me, I- I, uh, I- I kind of was like, "Well, you know what? This Green Beret thing sounds pretty cool. I would love to be able to do that, jump out of planes and maybe overthrow some countries. That's- that sounds pretty rad."

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       (laughs)

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:54

       Um, but it never left. And so I was still way into coffee. I was roasting coffee on fires and on my stove and getting different, weird espresso machines and ... The funny thing is, back in, when I was an SF guy, people would make fun of me all the time, like, "You hipster douchebag."

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       (laughs)

   29. EHEvan Hafer2:13

       "What are you doing?"

   30. NANarrator2:14

       If we worked together I would have made fun of you a lot.
2. 3:53 – 6:00

   Espresso machine in a war zone: how government money gets spent

   1. NANarrator3:53

      It- it's an interesting story. He, uh ... when ... we both had similar professions post-military as contractors, and I was in this FOB and I'm sitting there, I'm like, "Why the fuck is there this, like, $50,000 espresso machine for a very small base in the middle of nowhere?" Well, come to find, three hour- three years later, I'm chatting with Evan-

   2. EHEvan Hafer4:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. NANarrator4:09

      ... I'm like, "Yeah, dude, I didn't know the agency bought some stupid ass espresso." He's like, "Yep, that- that was me. I put ..."

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      (laughs)

   5. NANarrator4:14

      So, he convinced the supplier

   6. (laughs)

   7. ... NCO or whoever to ... officer to buy this super intricate freaking espresso machine-

   8. EHEvan Hafer4:21

      Uh-

   9. NANarrator4:21

      ... in the middle of nowhere. I'm like, "Of course it was you."

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:23

       Of course it was you.

   11. EHEvan Hafer4:24

       Well, yeah, I ... so I ... that's exactly, so the- the entire story, so I'm working at the agency then, so fast-forward a few years later and my- the- the- the logistics person came to me and he or she was like, "Hey, what- what kind of espresso machine or coffee machine should we buy?" And I was like, "Oh, don't worry, I- I'll send you the links to it."

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:44

       (laughs)

   13. EHEvan Hafer4:44

       And it was, like, $30,000 espresso machine-

   14. NANarrator4:48

       (laughs)

   15. EHEvan Hafer4:49

       ... from- from ... I imported it from Italy and had it flown in-

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       (laughs)

   17. EHEvan Hafer4:52

       ... through some other logistic situation and she's like, "So, this is it?" I'm like, "Yeah, but we still need a grinder too, right?" And, uh, that was something that kind of lived in- in not only, like, infamy that I'd gotten the- the entire logistic system to buy me this espresso machine from Italy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:08

       There- there was no oversight? Like, no one was, like, looking at the accounts and going, "What the fuck is ..."

   19. EHEvan Hafer5:14

       Contrary to popular belief, you know, congressional oversight in budgets at times is a little bit hazy when you're in war. They just kind of say, "Here's lump sum." You know? "Here you go."

   20. NANarrator5:23

       Yes.

   21. EHEvan Hafer5:24

       "Here's- here's $23 million. As long as you can justify it, maybe we'll be okay." Uh, but yeah.

   22. NANarrator5:30

       Well, you know how the government works too, at the end of a fiscal year, they're like, "We got some money to spend or we don't get this budget next year."

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       Oh.

   24. EHEvan Hafer5:35

       And- and honestly-

   25. NANarrator5:36

       Yeah.

   26. EHEvan Hafer5:36

       ... in Iraq early on, it- it was like a- a dumpster fire with cash, just-

   27. NANarrator5:42

       Yeah.

   28. EHEvan Hafer5:42

       ... the tax dollars that were just burnt in that place on just dumb shit, you couldn't even imagine. When I look back on it now, as a guy that's very vested in what's happening to my tax dollars, I'm like, "What the fuck were these idiots doing?"

   29. NANarrator5:57

       (laughs)

   30. EHEvan Hafer5:57

       Like, this is so dumb. It was so dumb.

3. 6:00 – 11:46

   Armored vehicles, low-vis missions, and why fancy gear can be useless

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:00

      Like, what was ... b- besides espresso machines, what was the other ridiculous shit that the money was being spent on?

   2. EHEvan Hafer6:05

      Oh. Well, I ... here's a great example.So, uh, and I- I've got a myriad of them, but, uh, we had a field of up-armored vehicles that were really fucking expensive, like $500,000 a pop, give or take. We couldn't take them anywhere because they were so obvious-

   3. NANarrator6:27

      Yeah.

   4. EHEvan Hafer6:27

      ... that it was a up-armored vehicle that you would just drive around and people would want to take potshots at- at you for the fun of it. So, you have these beautiful half a million to a million dollar cars that you can't use, so you gotta go, when- when we're working in the low-vis capacity, means, like, you're just trying to blend in, just not get shot, man. Like, don't pick a fight. Like, let's just blend in, do our job, get the fuck out of here. But if you have a really expensive looking, like, G5 or something that's just-

   5. NANarrator6:55

      (laughs) Yeah.

   6. EHEvan Hafer6:55

      ... really, a G5 in the middle of fucking Baghdad in a war zone, people are gonna want to take potshots at it.

   7. NANarrator6:59

      It's pressure washed and all clean.

   8. EHEvan Hafer7:00

      That Mercedes, that big Mercedes-

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:03

      Like a G-Wagon?

   10. EHEvan Hafer7:03

       Yeah. A G-Wagon.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       They had G-Wagons? Like, a bulletproof G-Wagon?

   12. EHEvan Hafer7:06

       Yeah. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:07

       Really?

   14. EHEvan Hafer7:07

       Yeah, dude.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:08

       A G-Wagon?

   16. EHEvan Hafer7:09

       So, all of this stuff is up-armored, so when you look at this, like any vehicle you want, you can get a level of armor to it. But if you buy the most ridiculous and expensive vehicle in the middle of fucking war-torn country X, you're gonna stick out like a sore thumb, and the whole intent of the mission is to blend in.

   17. NANarrator7:31

       (laughs)

   18. EHEvan Hafer7:31

       So, to my point, you'll have fields of shit that you can't use because some dumbass is pulling the trigger on your government tax dollars going, "This looks good to me. Might as well just see how that looks." (laughs) Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       Why don't they take, like, an old Chevy Blazer and then retrofit it?

   20. EHEvan Hafer7:48

       Well, there's that, too. You can do that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:50

       Do they do that?

   22. EHEvan Hafer7:50

       Oh, yeah. You can, when you look, go down the, go down the rabbit hole on armored vehicles, and it- it, obviously you probably wouldn't, but if- if you wanted an armored vehicle of any kind, you can get it. Now, there are t- there are different armored vehicles-

   23. NANarrator8:05

       Le- levels, yeah.

   24. EHEvan Hafer8:06

       ... from different companies. So for instance, Mercedes builds their armored vehicles from ground up. It's- it's one of the- the best, if not the best, armored vehicle in the world. Uh, it's built from ground up. It's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:17

       Jamie has it right there.

   26. EHEvan Hafer8:18

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:18

       Yeah, the G-Class originally was a military vehicle.

   28. EHEvan Hafer8:22

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:22

       Yeah. That's why it's so durable. Like, my wife has one of those. It's like the- the door-

   30. EHEvan Hafer8:27

       It's tank-
4. 11:46 – 14:43

   Line-X trucks and the ‘rich Russian’ bulletproof aesthetic

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:46

      How many dickheads are listening to this right now going, "I need that in my life"?

   2. EHEvan Hafer11:49

      Oh, man.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:49

      "I need one of those."

   4. NANarrator11:50

      Well-

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:50

      There's actually a lot of companies that do that. They take like Tacomas or Tundras-

   6. NANarrator11:53

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:53

      ... and they outfit them with level sevens.

   8. EHEvan Hafer11:55

      (laughs)

   9. NANarrator11:55

      I mean, I think that's just kind of badass. One day I want one of those.

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:57

       Doesn't that, uh, Devrolo company do that? Do you know that c-

   11. NANarrator12:00

       Rollo?

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:00

       You know that company, Devrolo?

   13. EHEvan Hafer12:02

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NANarrator12:02

       Oh yeah, that, that's who I was talking about.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:03

       Yeah.

   16. EHEvan Hafer12:03

       Yeah. Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:03

       They, they do the-

   18. EHEvan Hafer12:04

       Get in?

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       ... that plastic coating on the outside.

   20. EHEvan Hafer12:06

       Oh, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:06

       What is that shit called? The, the, the hard plastic coating on the outside?... you know, they, uh-

   22. NANarrator12:12

       It's like synthetic Kevlar or something like that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:13

       Yeah, yeah. It's like this hard plastic. The, e- it's like a... I forget what it's called. There's a, a, a, usually they use it for undercoating some cars, but these, a lot of cars, they do it on the outside as well.

   24. NANarrator12:25

       Huh.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:25

       And then they'll do a whole bulletproof treatment of 'em. And then they outfit it with-

   26. NANarrator12:29

       What are those? Those things are like $500,000 too, I think.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       They're pretty expensive.

   28. EHEvan Hafer12:33

       Yeah.

   29. NANarrator12:33

       Expensive.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:34

       With, Jamie, go to Devrolo. It's, um, they'll do a, a 700 horsepower engine option-
5. 14:43 – 18:12

   Black Rifle Coffee timing, beans, and coffee as a “wine-like” rabbit hole

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:43

      So, so when you got out of the military, w- how long was it before you started Black Rifle?

   2. EHEvan Hafer14:48

      It was started basically the same time.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:50

      Is there coffee in this thing right here?

   4. EHEvan Hafer14:51

      Yeah, yeah. There's still coffee in there. Uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:54

      What is this? What kind of coffee is this?

   6. EHEvan Hafer14:56

      That is that Cinnabon that I, I roasted special for this, for this place.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      That Ethiopian shit that you sent me?

   8. EHEvan Hafer15:02

      So it's a coast- it's a Costa Rican.

   9. NANarrator15:03

      This is delicious.

   10. EHEvan Hafer15:03

       Yeah, what'd you think of that Ethiopian?

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:04

       It's the fucking bomb diggity, man.

   12. EHEvan Hafer15:05

       Really?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:05

       I love it. I lo- I, I was turned onto Ethiopian coffee. I had this guy, Peter Giuliano, he's a coffee expert back in the day.

   14. EHEvan Hafer15:12

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       I had him on the podcast like a few years back.

   16. NANarrator15:14

       Okay.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       I was just interested. I was like, "What, like what is it?" Like, uh, w- these p- people that are really into coffee, I started reading about people who were really into coffee. I'm like, "I wanna know what the fuck is going on." Like, what is happening? Like, these real heavy coffee nerds. 'Cause I would just get coffee and pour cream in it, and then-

   18. EHEvan Hafer15:30

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       ... I was into like MCT oil-

   20. EHEvan Hafer15:32

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       ... and grass-fed butter in coffee for a while. But the problem with that is people on the podcast got so annoyed with me going (clears throat) every 30 seconds.

   22. EHEvan Hafer15:40

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       (clears throat) 'Cause you've got all this grass-fed-

   24. EHEvan Hafer15:43

       Yeah, I know.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       ... butter and MCT oil in your throat.

   26. EHEvan Hafer15:45

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       Just like coats you and when you're ... Um, so I got this guy Peter Giuliano come on and he just explained to me the whole thing, how all coffee came from Ethiopia.

   28. EHEvan Hafer15:53

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:54

       And then, and then the difference between, uh, wet processing and dry processing, and, and coffee rust and all these different things.

   30. EHEvan Hafer16:01

       Yeah.
6. 18:12 – 23:26

   Hawaii, hunting, and invasive axis deer: “walking groceries”

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:12

      Have you guys ever thought about farming in, in Am-

   2. EHEvan Hafer18:14

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:14

      Is it possible to do in America? Like, can you do it in Texas?

   4. EHEvan Hafer18:17

      No, uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:18

      The climate's just not correct?

   6. EHEvan Hafer18:20

      No. It's th- the elevation-

   7. NANarrator18:21

      We only have Kona out of Hawaii.

   8. EHEvan Hafer18:23

      Mm-hmm.

   9. NANarrator18:23

      That's about it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:23

       Right. Which is fucking fantastic. I love Kona coffee.

   11. EHEvan Hafer18:27

       Yeah. It's-

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:27

       There's some really amazing flavors that come out of, uh, the Big Island, for whatever reason, right?

   13. EHEvan Hafer18:33

       It's the soil.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:33

       Is that what it is?

   15. EHEvan Hafer18:34

       Yeah, it's the soil. So, when you have, uh, the high lava, uh, or-

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       But let's be honest, that's not America.

   17. NANarrator18:42

       (laughs)

   18. EHEvan Hafer18:42

       No. No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       Hawaii is not America.

   20. EHEvan Hafer18:44

       No. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       It's crazy. I mean, I love, I love Hawaii, don't get me wrong.

   22. NANarrator18:47

       Yeah. Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:47

       But they should be, they should allowed, be allowed to be their own fucking country. They're, they're, they're an island in the middle of the ocean. It's five hours by plane from America.

   24. EHEvan Hafer18:55

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:55

       How the fuck is that America? Now, I think they should be protected by America.

   26. EHEvan Hafer18:59

       Sure.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       Don't get me wrong.

   28. EHEvan Hafer19:00

       Yeah, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:00

       I mean, but, the idea that that's regular America? Like, come on, man. Hawai- You, you have, there's a specific look Hawaiians have.

   30. NANarrator19:06

       True.
7. 23:26 – 27:19

   Exotic animals, hybrids, and the eternal question: “what does it taste like?”

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:26

      I'm not shooting a giraffe.

   2. NANarrator23:28

      No, no, I, but-

   3. EHEvan Hafer23:28

      No.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:29

      But, but apparently they're delicious.

   5. EHEvan Hafer23:30

      But, but it's out there.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:31

      I have a friend who shot a gira- giraffe and he says they're fucking delicious.

   7. NANarrator23:34

      Really?

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:34

      Yeah, they had to shoot one giraffe-

   9. EHEvan Hafer23:36

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:36

       ... so...... here's the thing about giraffes. They are like every other animal. They wanna control breeding, right?

   11. NANarrator23:42

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       So, every other male, large male, wants to control breeding. And when you have a large male giraffe that fucks up all the other male giraffes-

   13. NANarrator23:50

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:50

       ... you're like, "Okay, we got a real problem with this guy."

   15. NANarrator23:52

       Right. Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       And so they had to take out this giraffe.

   17. NANarrator23:55

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:55

       So, he was in Africa at the time. And they shot this giraffe and they ate it, and he said it is, it was unbelievably delicious.

   19. NANarrator24:01

       Did they reference what it tasted like? I've never had a-

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:03

       I would imagine it's-

   21. NANarrator24:04

       Giraffe. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:04

       ... I would imag- it's, I c- it's gotta be in the deer family, right? Like, something like it?

   23. NANarrator24:10

       Dinosaur? (laughs)

   24. I want ... What family ... Yeah, what family is giraffe in? I have no-

   25. JRJoe Rogan24:13

       Here's my thing on it, though. I'm not eating anything that is so friendly, when you go to the zoo-

   26. NANarrator24:18

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:18

       ... a baby can feed it.

   28. NANarrator24:19

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:19

       Like, my daughter, I have, I have video of my daughter when she was two. I was holding her, and the giraffe comes with his crazy tongue and takes the lettuce from her hands and she's laughing.

   30. NANarrator24:29

       Yeah.
8. 27:19 – 55:08

   Carnivore, organs, fasting, and why diet becomes ideology

   1. NANarrator27:19

      That's a ... I don't know if you've ever tried it, but I've been taking, um, like, beef, like grass-fed organic beef, like liver pills and stuff.

   2. JRJoe Rogan27:25

      Yeah, I do that. Yeah.

   3. NANarrator27:26

      You do it?

   4. JRJoe Rogan27:27

      Yeah.

   5. NANarrator27:27

      Yeah.

   6. Yeah, I had a company hook me up and, man, I take that, and about 30 minutes after I eat, I'm like supercharged if I just took-

   7. JRJoe Rogan27:33

      Mm-hmm.

   8. NANarrator27:33

      ... like a B12 shot. It's the weirdest thing, and I think-

   9. (laughs)

   10. ... you gotta, like, work your way up in dosage.

   11. JRJoe Rogan27:37

       Yeah, that guy, uh, Paul Saldino, uh, Carnivore MD-

   12. NANarrator27:41

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan27:41

       Yeah. He's sell- ... I think it's Heart & Soil Supplements.

   14. NANarrator27:44

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan27:45

       He sells, uh, grass fed, uh, beef liver, beef heart, trachea-

   16. NANarrator27:51

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:51

       ... collagen.

   18. NANarrator27:52

       Collagen, yeah.

   19. I take all that shit. (laughs) Yeah, Trevor does all that, the Trevor Thompson.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:55

       Mm-hmm.

   21. NANarrator27:55

       He, he takes-

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:56

       Yeah.

   23. NANarrator27:56

       ... all of that shit.

   24. Collagen, yeah.

   25. Yeah, Trevor's super health conscious.

   26. JRJoe Rogan28:00

       Ooh.

   27. NANarrator28:00

       Yeah. I, I believe in that, 100%. I mean, what, what ... Human beings are supposed to be eating organs. When wolves kill-

   28. JRJoe Rogan28:05

       Right.

   29. NANarrator28:05

       ... the first thing the, the alpha does is eat the liver.

   30. JRJoe Rogan28:07

       Mm-hmm.
9. 55:08 – 59:28

   Military life, gut health, and why one diet doesn’t fit all

   1. EHEvan Hafer55:08

      Well, and I've, I've been hearing more and more of this, and it's interesting because when I look at what's going on with your gut, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan55:15

      Mm-hmm.

   3. EHEvan Hafer55:15

      And, and I was just having this conversation earlier with a, with a retired Special Forces guy, good friend of mine, and we were talking about there, our life in the military and what's happening in our gut biome, right? What's happening with the balance of your ecosystem down here. And we were, w- we've, we've, we've lived this life of going overseas and, and overseas repetitively on, on a, on a, on a yearly, sometimes more annual cycle in these developing world countries and combat zones. We're nuking our gut every time we go over there, an anti-malarials, anti-inflammatories.

   4. JRJoe Rogan55:53

      Hm.

   5. EHEvan Hafer55:53

      All of the different things, we're just, just dropping bombs on our gut. And then we're eating high preservative foods, so meals ready to eat. And you're eating MREs, you're not sleeping, you're nuking your gut with- Standing next to burning tires and burn pits. And so now, how much is happening down here? And when, when we're talking about plant-based or carnivore or paleo or any of these other things, how much is it really dependent on the individual and whether or not they were breastfed as kids? How many a- anti-inflammatories have they taken? What type of lifestyle do they have?

   6. JRJoe Rogan56:28

      Where your ancestors come from.

   7. EHEvan Hafer56:29

      Yeah, where your ancestors come from.

   8. JRJoe Rogan56:31

      Yeah.

   9. EHEvan Hafer56:31

      I think anytime we try to templatize system, or some type of system, it's just like, "Oh, that's gonna work for everybody." Right? It fucking might not work for anybody.

   10. JRJoe Rogan56:40

       That's what's super complicated about diet. There, there are some people that they're, they eat a vegan diet and it's perfect for them.

   11. EHEvan Hafer56:46

       Right. Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan56:46

       They have no problem with it, and there's other people that get really sick. And there's other people that eat a carnivore diet and they feel like dog shit. They feel terrible, they feel lethargic. And I don't know if they're doing it right or wrong, but there's some people that eat it and they feel great. You gotta find what works for you.

   13. EHEvan Hafer57:00

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan57:00

       But the thing is, people are so dogmatic about f- about diet-

   15. EHEvan Hafer57:04

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan57:04

       ... they're, it, it becomes an ideology. It becomes like a religion.

   17. EHEvan Hafer57:07

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan57:08

       And especially like vegans and carnivores. The vegan people and the carnivore people-

   19. EHEvan Hafer57:12

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan57:12

       ... are like, they are like the right and the left wing of America. They're like the Antifa-

   21. EHEvan Hafer57:16

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan57:16

       ... and the Proud Boys.

   23. EHEvan Hafer57:17

       Seriously. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan57:17

       They're like the fucking t- (laughs) They really are. They're like-

   25. EHEvan Hafer57:19

       Yeah, they are.

   26. JRJoe Rogan57:19

       They fucking believe 100% in their way of life only.

   27. EHEvan Hafer57:22

       Oh my God, this is the only way.

   28. JRJoe Rogan57:23

       Yeah. Yeah, and, and, you know, and they'll tell you based on their own anecdotal evidence. The thing you need to know, though, about vegans is there's a number, I think it's more th- there's a giant number of them that, that eat meat when they're drunk.

   29. EHEvan Hafer57:37

       Oh, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan57:37

       Yeah.
10. 59:28 – 1:17:43

    Veteran care failures: VA, brain scans, amputees, and burn pit fallout

    1. NANarrator59:28

       Well, it's an interesting segue on that too, because that's like, in part, some of the nonprofit stuff I do on the side is, is solely based on that, the individualized treatment for veterans specifically, and law enforcement, because you see a lot with the, the military, DOD, the VA, it, like you're saying, you show up, "I don't feel good," and it's a blanket treatment, right?

    2. EHEvan Hafer59:46

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan59:46

       Yeah.

    4. NANarrator59:46

       "Here's some anti-depressants. Here's all that." But unle- it's, you know, it's a Band-Aid for a bullet hole, and if you're not-

    5. JRJoe Rogan59:51

       Right.

    6. NANarrator59:51

       ... actually figuring out what the cause is and you're treating symptoms, then the third and fourth order effects of those treatments are gonna make that individual worse, you know? Some of the issues they have, like I think I have PTSD, if, that that's a guy saying they're PTS. They go through and they find out they have TBI and 40% memory function, short-term memory function-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

       Mm-hmm.

    8. NANarrator1:00:09

       ... and so now you go to cognitive therapy and you get the g- like, guys or gals working through it that way. But the only way to figure that out is through brain scans, and blood work, and actually focusing on the individual rather than being lazy and say, "Hey, here's some anti-depressants," when the whole time the issue was something completely different.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

       And then you have budget problems, right?

    10. NANarrator1:00:26

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

        Right.

    12. EHEvan Hafer1:00:27

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

        So the veterans hospitals don't have enough money to send you through all these different scans and all these different doctors and specialists and try to fine tune what's wrong with you. And-

    14. EHEvan Hafer1:00:36

        Well, I think that that's... You know, one of the things that we talk about a lot is the, our, our politicians will say, or leadership, they, they love to go to war.

    15. NANarrator1:00:49

        Yeah.

    16. EHEvan Hafer1:00:49

        They love it. Like, you know, "Hey, how many times can we send more guys to war? How many countries..." You know, and, and I'm, I'm a participant in that endeavor, by the way, right? I've invaded Iraq. Uh, I've spent a lot of my adult life i- in, in war, uh, specifically in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But the thing that I've noticed in my adult life is that politicians love it. They love to send, you know, 18 to 26-year-old men and women, they love to send them to war. What they hate is paying the fucking bill.

    17. NANarrator1:01:19

        Right.

    18. EHEvan Hafer1:01:19

        That's what they hate. They hate paying for the aftereffects. They hate standing by their word in the sense of, "Hey, we're gonna take care of you, your, all your health problems, your education. We're gonna start really, uh, fixing the VA system so there's long-term care." What most veterans that I know, what they have to do is they have to continue to lobby the government over and over and over for them to prove that what's happened to their body is connected to their service. But the issue that I c- I continue to see is that this is a lack of, of one, it's a lack of experience from our politicians. They don't quite understand what war is and the long-term effects on individual soldiers. Uh, after decades of service and, I think, you know, hundreds of my friends, every one of... Every one of us has some type of long-term effect from their service, every one of us, in the sense of do you have sleep issues? Do you have, you know, gut issues? Do you have e- inflamma- you know, inflammation? Are you missing a limb? And really, it's, it's disgusting the amount of, uh, emphasis there is on going-

    19. NANarrator1:02:32

        Right.

    20. EHEvan Hafer1:02:32

        ... and then the lack of emphasis on care. It really, it, it saddens me as a society when we have to rely on nonprofits-

    21. NANarrator1:02:41

        Right.

    22. EHEvan Hafer1:02:42

        ... to pay for the care of veterans.

    23. NANarrator1:02:44

        Well, I think that's a...

    24. EHEvan Hafer1:02:45

        Because the, the military or the DOD and the tax- the taxpayer essentially, and I think if they understood this, if they knew they weren't paying for the long-term care of our service members to the degree that they needed, they would absolutely have no issues stepping up and saying, "Hey, we have to do something about this." Uh, and it's... It, it's really, when we look at the entire system and how it's, it's put together, there's no way that a person... This is a good story from my friend Clint. He's missing both his legs recently from last year. During COVID, what was happening is that his leg was changing as far as the shape of it, because he was growing an addition- additional layer of bone where his leg was blown off, and he needed a new leg, but he couldn't get in to get a new leg, so he was confined to his wheelchair for almost six months during this-

    25. NANarrator1:03:39

        Uh-huh.

    26. EHEvan Hafer1:03:39

        ... process, and he couldn't get an appointment. There's no reason why that should happen.

    27. NANarrator1:03:43

        It's- yeah, it's unacceptable.

    28. EHEvan Hafer1:03:44

        There's literally zero reason. We can't have the largest transfer of wealth from a taxpayer into the military industrial complex in modern history without zero ethical argument as far as our entire political system, and then not continue to care for our veterans. There's just no way that we can do that as a society, because I think ultimately that defines us and who we are collectively, and it's not a good grade.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:09

        Well, there's a long history of the United States doing that.

    30. EHEvan Hafer1:04:11

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:49:35