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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1552 - Matthew McConaughey

Matthew McConaughey is an Academy Award-winning actor known for such films as Dazed and Confused, The Dallas Buyers Club, Interstellar, Free State of Jones, and the HBO television series True Detective. His new memoir Greenlights is now available everywhere and at https://greenlights.com

Joe RoganhostMatthew McConaugheyguest
Oct 22, 20201h 51mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:21

    Greenlights: why McConaughey wrote a memoir after acting success

    1. JR

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hello, Matthew.

    2. MM

      Hello, Joe.

    3. JR

      What's going on, man? You got a book out?

    4. MM

      Got a book out, called Greenlights.

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. MM

      Trying to catch them, trying to get 'em.

  2. 0:21 – 1:38

    Removing the filters: writing as “directing your own movie”

    1. JR

      What makes a guy who is successful as you as an actor, what makes you wanna expose more of yourself? 'Cause that's kinda what you're doing by writing a memoir, right? You're exposing your thought process, your, your, your life, your lessons.

    2. MM

      Another mo- another way of communicating. Uh, you know, what I do in my day job as an actor, um, it's got four filters from the raw expression. There's what I've ... There's my raw expression, there is what's being recorded, there's what's being edited, and there's what's being put on the screen. Um, I wanted to do something where I got rid of the filters. Writing a book, there is one filter, 'cause it's the written word. Um, what you do, what we're doing now, when you do standup, that's no filters. You know, that's the direct, it's live, the sh- the he- the Big Show is always recording, uh, sort of ultimate goal. But I wanted to, uh, I wanted to put it down and say, "Hey, I want to..." I'm part of these movies. They're usually s- written by somebody else, directed by somebody else, edited by someone else, financed by someone else. I was like, "No, I wanna go direct my own movie. I want to produce my own movie." Well, how do I do that? I wanna put the words on the page and I'd been writing for 36 years, so I had a lot of content to go through and see if it was something worthy of sharing.

  3. 1:38 – 3:03

    36 years of journaling: why he started, and why he kept going

    1. JR

      Yeah, so you've been keeping a journal for 36 years?

    2. MM

      Yep.

    3. JR

      What made you start doing that?

    4. MM

      I think probably the, in the beginning, the usual reason someone writes in a journal, you know? "Well, my heart's broken, Gretchen Donnelly broke up with me."

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. MM

      "Well, why do I have all these dimples on my face? Why do I only have peach fuzz over my pecker and everyone else has-"

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. MM

      And then, in my early 20s, um, I remember I was, I was kinda rolling. I was in college, I had a job, I had money in my pocket, I had a, had a nice girlfriend, uh, making my grades, my relationships were good. And I remember going, "Oh, you hadn't been writing in your journal near as much. Uh, noticed you don't do that so much when things are going well." And I said, "I think you better start writing down things when things are going well." Being, my go- my idea was that, "Hey, you're gonna get in a rut again. You'll lose your frequency again in life. You might want this to go back and look at, to help you recalibrate." And that proved to be true. Um, you know, so many times we dissect failure and, and, and, and hardships in life, but we don't dissect success. And going back in those journals, I found that there were times when I got in a rut later and I was able to go back to those journals and go, "What were your habits when you were rolling, man? Well, who were you hanging out with? Where were you going? What were you eating? What were you drinking? How much, how much sleep were you getting? How were you looking at life?" And they'd help me recalibrate in the times when I was off frequency and get back on the rails again and find my frequency again.

  4. 3:03 – 8:55

    Common denominators of happiness: morning check-in, humor, and breaking a sweat

    1. JR

      What, what were the things that when things were going great, what, what was, what were the common factors?

    2. MM

      Common factors were one, check in with yourself before checking in with the world when you wake up in the morning.

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MM

      Um, really just sit there and take a little time. Um, read a little something that's between me and me. Write a little something that's between me and me before picking up the damn phone and saying, "Hey, what emails came in?" Or hopping out in the kitchen and going, when everyone else is already up going, "Hey, hey, what's up?" Take, take, take, take, 10 minutes to check in with me before checking in with the world. Um, what were the other things? Sense of humor. Sense of humor. Um, I found that I was laughing more. Um, my happiest times in my life were when I got my wink back, man, when I got my wink. If I lose my wink, it's like, oh, I'm taking things too seriously. Um, uh, so I had, I had more of a sense of humor, um, didn't tak- take things as personal in, in many ways, um, and wasn't asking permission as much (laughs) when I was, I was rolling.

    5. JR

      Asking permission, like what do you mean by that?

    6. MM

      Well, just asking permission about going, you know, having the confidence to b- believe in something I wanna do.

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MM

      Um, and just doing it, and saying, "Hey, if you ask permission, you're already creating one of those filters away from the raw expression." Just do it. It's live.

    9. JR

      What, what-

    10. MM

      Don't ... you can.

    11. JR

      What you're saying, what it sounds like is like you almost like self-medicated with a type of medica- or a type of meditation that you invented yourself. You almost like figured out a meditation, 'cause that's what people who meditate, that's what they say to do. Take an, you know, X amount of time, 10, 20, whatever it is minutes out of the day-

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... focus on your breathing-

    14. MM

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... clean the mind out of anxiety and stress. And if you do that on a regular basis, you'll have a happier life. And you seem to have figured that out on your own or did you read books about doing this?

    16. MM

      I think I figured it out on my own. I mean, the other thing that I didn't tell you was to book in the day before I say my prayers at night to go through the day, which I don't know about you, but it can be hard to remember what you had for breakfast (laughs) after dinner when you're going to bed. It can be hard to remember what those first things we did in the day. So, I'll go back through my day. When I'm happiest, I, I go back through my day. And I like to write a mental note of what is tomorrow, what are my plans for tomorrow. Um, that's a big stress reliever for, for me. Um, I, I think I learned it on my own. I've always been a list keeper. I love making long list of things to do during the day, and I add everything in that. I add the, the simple things that you know you're gonna do anyway in, in the list. You know, like, uh, k- k- kiss your wife. You know what I mean? Uh, um, drop a deuce, whatever it is. I, I write things that I'm gonna do just so it's more to mark off the list.

    17. JR

      You write-

    18. MM

      A, among-

    19. JR

      You write down you have to take a shit?

    20. MM

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      Like, really?

    22. MM

      Just remember (laughs) you know, enjoy, enjoy that or read something, read something funny, or, or, or have a listen to that favorite tune of yours. Something that I know because...... the longer the list, the more things I can mark off that day, the more I feel like I accomplished and the more it makes it kinda easy to do the hard stuff, you know?

    23. JR

      I, yeah, I- I do that with some things that I have to do, like exercise and writing. I- I do that with some things. But it seems like you're very meticulous with this.

    24. MM

      Yeah, I go through hot streaks and cold streaks on it, you know? I do it more times than others. But I've found that those are the common denominators of some of the things I do when I am the most happy. I'm not a big meditator, but my exercise, what I call breaking a sweat, once a day, exercising, I find for me that is necessary because it puts a- a demarcation between all of my responsibilities.

    25. JR

      Mm.

    26. MM

      And I can at times look up ... You know how it is. If sometimes you go through the day or days and you're so busy, and I'm- I'm good on autopilot at getting stuff done, but everything you have to do, stress comes when those responsibilities feel like they're stacked vertically on our shoulders.

    27. JR

      Mm.

    28. MM

      And there's a proverbial weight on our shoulders. When I go break a sweat, all of a sudden, all those things that were stacked vertically on my shoulders, my responsibilities, lay down, and they're laterally out in front of me. So there's no more weight on my shoulder, and I find that I get those things done better and with more enjoyment if I just go, "Oh, there they are in front of you." Just handle one, then hop to the next one, handle that. Then hop to the next one, handle that. Handle it much more better, but I need those ... I see demarcations between my responsibilities if I go break a sweat.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. MM

      For sure.

  5. 8:55 – 11:54

    Stress, sleep, and fear: embracing reality instead of chasing ‘no stress’

    1. MM

      Um, you know, people talk about, "Oh, you know, no stress." I'm like, "Well, bullshit."

    2. JR

      Yeah. Definitely.

    3. MM

      Stress is part of life. It means you give a damn. You know what I mean? You're gonna have stress. You're supposed to have stress. But I know I handle things better and more thoroughly and more like myself, like I want to. Um, the outcome is always better, and I enjoy doing it more if I do go break that sweat and get those endorphins going, and that presses reset for me and shows me a little ... It separates all the events, like I said, laterally, and they don't feel like they're stacked up on top of me.

    4. JR

      Yeah, I-

    5. MM

      Also, sleep-

    6. JR

      Sleep.

    7. MM

      ... for me.

    8. JR

      How much do you get a night?

    9. MM

      Nine and a half.

    10. JR

      Whoo, I love it. That's great. I wish I could do that. Goddamn. When I get a nine-and-a-half-hou- an-hour night, oh my God, I feel so good the next day. I feel amazing. I feel like a- a newer person.

    11. MM

      Well, my (laughs) I'm- I'm lucky I have a wife that says, "No, no, no. You get your nine and a half. I'll get my seven, 'cause I'd rather handle the stuff I handle that you don't while you're sleeping than be around you when you hadn't had enough sleep."

    12. JR

      (laughs) Well, you set it up right (laughs) . Yeah, I- I can't stress that enough too. Sleep is- is everything. Sleep, exercise, health, keep the body functioning correctly, all those things, they- they- they're not just ... It's- it's not a vanity thing, and it's not a- a laziness thing. It's literally like the ... It improves the quality of the way the mind functions, and you get better things done.

    13. MM

      Yep.

    14. JR

      Your- the quality of your work will be better.

    15. MM

      Definitely. You think more clearly. You don't waste your time chasing down bullshit. You don't ... You know, you do the right kind of work, you know? We all know that ... I- I love hard work, but I've got many times in my life where I'm doing the wrong kind of work. I love the kind of work where I've accomplished what I needed to do during the day, and I lay my head on the pillow, and I'm exhausted because I got done what I needed to get done as best I could. I do not like the exhaustion at the end of the day where I'm like, "Man, I feel like I was just going to revolutions, man. I don't know if- if today had any ascension to it. I didn't build anything, and today was a ... I don't- I don't know if I ... Maybe I went backwards," you know? I don't like that kind of exhaustion. Um, and that's the kind of exhaustion that actually I don't go to sleep well on. It actually keeps me up.

    16. JR

      The only thing I get good out of those shitty days is a desire to never have those shitty days again. I think the- the good- the- the good aspects of negative feelings is recognizing how good positive feelings are, how good the- the feelings of accomplishment are by failing, and-

    17. MM

      Right.

    18. JR

      ... that's why when you're talking about, you know, like, no stress, just live in peace, that's a crock of shit. That's like never feel bad. Well, then you're never gonna appreciate feeling good.

    19. MM

      No, I'm- I'm-

    20. JR

      Like, we need hills and valleys.

    21. MM

      No, I'm- I'm- I'm with you, uh, 100% on that. I mean, I write in my book, you know, and I get asked a lot, "Well, do you believe in fear?" And I'm like, "Well, hell yeah, I believe in fear."

    22. JR

      (laughs) Who the fuck doesn't believe in fear?

    23. MM

      Well, you know, you see those that say, "No fear."

    24. JR

      Oh, those people are so silly.

  6. 11:54 – 16:02

    Corporal punishment and family conflict rules: consequences, closure, and no grudges

    1. MM

      People are like, "No, no, no, no, no, I don't ..." And they're like, "Do- do you fear?" I say, "I have fear every single day." It's the overcoming of the fear, (bell dings) or I know being raised, you know, we were a physical discipline family. We got the- we got the belt. We didn't get grounded. My parents' motto was, "We're not gonna ground you 'cause that takes away your time, and your time is your most valuable thing." No, we never ...... got injured. We just get hurt at the time, you cried, and it was over with. But there were things that I did not do growing up, and still do not do, for fear of the consequences.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. MM

      That fear works for me going, every time things I did not do growing up going like, "No, that'd be a lot of fun, but not so much, not more fun than how much it's gonna suck if I get caught." (laughs) You know?

    4. JR

      (laughs) Physical consequences, they're, uh, it's a very controversial subject-

    5. MM

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... because a lot of people think, I don't hit my kids, but a lot of people that I know who are my age were hit when they were young and they look back on it and they say, "You know what? I learned from that and my parents didn't, they didn't beat me. They physically punished me for something that I did wrong and they, they didn't do it to be sadistic. They did it because they cared about me and that's how they were raised." It's a very controversial subject-

    7. MM

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      ... because, uh, people get up in arms with the idea of hitting children. You know, so even-

    9. MM

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... you bringing it up, of that, that it was beneficial to you is gonna have a lot of peoples' hackles raised.

    11. MM

      Sure. And I get asked all the time, and, and I've, I've shared it openly how I was raised and what kind of corporal punishment we got. I don't choose to, you know, discipline my children the same way my parents did. But I've said this before, I wouldn't trade one single of those ass whoopings I got for the values that were instilled in me from getting them. And I'm very clear, and was at the time, that I earned every one I got.

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. MM

      I earned every one. And we were a family, you know, my parents were like, "We get it over with, bend over, take it, and it's over." And we don't hold grudges, no one's gonna speak of it again, and if you got in trouble, that was the night Dad would take us across town to our favorite burger joint and let us stay up as late as we wanted. It was, and it was over. Um, you got in more trouble if you brought something back up, you know, to somebody in the family. "Yeah, but what about when you did that?" No, no, no. They already got in trouble for that. You don't bring it back up.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MM

      You could not go to sleep in our family holding a grudge.

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MM

      My parents-

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MM

      ... would stay up all night and let you miss school to sit there and keep hashing out, until we could hug it out, cry it out, and say I love you and move on.

    20. JR

      Sounds like you had a wise family. I mean, it's a, it's a controversial thing to say if they hit you, and a lot of people would say, "There's other ways to do it." But the way they-

    21. MM

      Sure.

    22. JR

      ... made you hug it out and stay up all night and communicate, it sounds very wise.

    23. MM

      I, I think it was. You know, I don't, uh, you know, and like I said, I, I don't choose to discipline my kids the way my parents disciplined me, but I damn sure don't judge them or say what they did was wrong. Um-

    24. JR

      Well, they came from a different-

    25. MM

      I al-

    26. JR

      ... era as well, right?

    27. MM

      Yeah. They did come from a different era, yeah.

    28. JR

      That's a thing that is very difficult for people to come to grips with, is that y- you know, human beings that were raised 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, they, they, it was a different world. It just was different.

    29. MM

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      And we know more now, and like you're saying, you do not choose to discipline your children that way, but it was so common back then.

  7. 16:02 – 20:32

    Memoir as a tool kit: relatability, crisis navigation, and not tripping downhill

    1. JR

      Is this, the writing of this book, is some of it almost like, like letters to your younger self? Like a, a lesson to people who are like you coming up? Because one of the things that's so beneficial, f- uh, to young people with reading autobiographies and memoirs of successful people who've li- lived extraordinary lives is you get to see all the thought process. You get to see the, the warts, the failures, the, the whole thing, the fears, the anxiety. You get to see it all, so you go, "Oh, that Matthew McConaughey guy, he's a normal dude. He's not just the guy from Dallas Buyers Club and all these movies."

    2. MM

      Right.

    3. JR

      "He's a normal human being, and maybe I can one day achieve heights like him as well."

    4. MM

      Or maybe I- I read this book and I'm someone who feels like, you know, as we often do when we're going through a crisis, that we're the only ones. "And it's only happened to me."

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. MM

      "I'm the center of the universe. No one else will understand." And you read and go, "Well here's a guy who's successful, who, shoot, I even maybe thought he just kind of rolls out of bed and makes everything look easy." Which you find out, I, I, I, I try to work to get to that point. But maybe you look and you hear it and you go, "Oh, he went through some similar things." I share some stories in here that are very subjective to me, but the more subjective and personal I got, the more I found that, oh, these are more relatable to the more amount of people out there. So you may read a story and go, "I have that story, a similar story in my life." Well here's how McConaughey handled it, or wished he would have handled it. Or here's some help he got along the way. Here's somewhere where he s- he took a walk about with himself and found out some things about himself. Maybe that's something I could do for myself. So there are some tools in the book for someone to see themselves in and help navigate our way out of crisis, red and yellow lights, but also how to navigate things when we are catching green lights, because there, I have a (laughs) I have a chapter in here called The Art of Running Downhill. Um, you know, I- I self-sabotaged, I've self-sabotaged myself when things were going too well before.... um, until I learned that that really wasn't my right, (laughs) to, to put a roof over my expectations for myself and who the hell did I think I was.

    7. JR

      Well, that's more common than not, isn't it? There's the, people get, what they call, uh, what is it? Imposter syndrome. You know, it's you don't feel like you deserve all the good things that are happening to you, and it just seems odd. You see it happen to other people and it almost makes sense. You see other people being very successful, and it, it, you're detached.

    8. MM

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      But when it's happening to you, it's almost like this, this is uncomfortable because this is not normal, and so I'm gonna fuck this up so that I, I feel like I used to feel before. Which at least, even if it was failure, it's comfortable. I'm accustomed to it.

    10. MM

      Right. Yeah, I need some resistance.

    11. JR

      Yes.

    12. MM

      You know? And, and look, and I think there's very healthy ways to create resistance in our lives when we are on so-called easy street.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. MM

      That maybe we're not challenging ourselves in the right way, you know? That we need to create resistance to overcome it to feel most alive. But there's also foolish times to, to create resistance, and the fact of that is things are going so well you think that's how it's going to be for the rest of your life. No, trust me, the uphill is coming. The drama, the real drama is coming. Don't create any false drama in front of you right now because you're kind of patronizing yourself. The real drama is going to come. Someone is going to get sick. You are going to get hurt. Something will happen in your life, the world will do unto you or you'll do it unto yourself, so don't trip yourself running downhill and faceplant and break your fricking nose just because you needed some resistance running downhill.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. MM

      Because trust me, that uphill is coming, you know what I mean? But to go back to the first part of that, I'm a, I'm a big fan of creating resistance to keep myself in check and to make sure that I'm feeling most alive to overcome the right things in my life.

    17. JR

      Yeah, me as well. I, I, I find physical resistance is the best thing to calm my mind and, and to provide physical challenges that allow me to i- i- it allows me to deal with, uh, success easier because there's bullshit that I have to deal with.

    18. MM

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      But the bullshit is physical.

    20. MM

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      And it sometimes is challenging mentally to do, you know, like very physically exerting exercises or particularly jujitsu or martial arts because it, it just, it breaks you down.

    22. MM

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      And so the, the other stuff that's sort of, it seems like it should be complicated but it's not, you don't know why, you don't sweat it as much.

    24. MM

      And it sobers you up-

    25. JR

      Yes.

  8. 20:32 – 27:03

    Loss, clarity, and constructive optimism during COVID

    1. MM

      ... in a very literal way. In, in the same way it's a daily routine to sober yourself up, to, to throw off the mendacid- mendacious bullshit in your life that you were so concerned about and get down to what really needs to happen. Mountains become molehills. You know, it, it, it, it's, you know, big moments in our life sober us up too. I know my father moving on and passing on from this life sobered me up in a way that I then stepped up and said, "Oh, you don't have your dad to rely on anymore to catch you when you fall. All these things he's been teaching you that you've been kind of making B, B minuses in life, now you better start making As at them because he's not there so you better take some ownership." And I remember when he moved on, I carved this in a tree, "Be less impressed, more involved." And what it was is as soon as he passed away, I noticed that all the things that I was revering in life mortally, like the fame, people, that were success, money, they lowered down to eye level, things that I was looking up at. And all the things that I was patronizing and condescending and going, "Oh," sloughing off, "that's not worthy of me," they rose up to eye level. And I remember saying, "Boy, the world is flat. I'm looking it in the eye. I see further, I see wider, I see clearer, um, I've got to take ownership of myself." Um, and I stood with my heart higher, I stood with my head higher, and I walked forward and started doing things in that way that I was saying earlier without asking so much permission all the time and got a lot more done and became a lot more myself and found more satisfaction.

    2. JR

      Yeah, sometimes people do need some wake-up call to let you know that this is a temporary existence.

    3. MM

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      And make the best out of it and enjoy it. And sometimes it doesn't happen unless something tragic happens. Like there are, in a terrible way but also a beautiful way, there's a lot of power in tragedy because you, you get something on the other end of it and you get clarity.

    5. MM

      We will get some clarity out of this tragic and awkward time of COVID.

    6. JR

      Yes.

    7. MM

      There are lessons we're learning that we don't even know what they are right now, that when we get out of it, will inherently be part of our being that will go forward. I sure as hell hope so. (laughs) But you know us humans, we're quick to snap right back to how we were before. Um-

    8. JR

      Yeah, my concern is that it's take- it's happening so fast but it's gonna take a long time to sort of even out and for us to reach equilibrium. That's what I'm worried about with this.

    9. MM

      Wait, that what's happening so fast?

    10. JR

      The deterioration, that, you know, the, the financial deterioration, the fear, the changes with the masks and the social distancing and everything is happening so fast, I'm worried it's just gonna take a long time before people feel comfortable again.

    11. MM

      Oh, yeah. I mean, look, I think for, for, for millions of people-

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. MM

      ... this is the new normal. I think, I, I don't think we're ever really going back to how it was. I mean, this is a year that agree or disagree with how we've gone about it and how things have been politicized here and there, this is a year that has shaken our floor. I don't believe this is ever, this year is gonna be on page 14 of the news for quite some time. I think we've got a lot of rebuilding to do in the long term. It may be a 20-year build.

    14. JR

      Yeah, no, I agree. It's, uh, it's just strange. It just feels strange. You go outside, the world just feels different than it felt a year ago. And that's, uh, that phrase, "the new normal," that people like to bring up, and this is, uh, this is where we find ourselves. But I, along with you, I'm, I'm almost always optimistic and, uh, I have a lot of faith in human beings and I think that...... we can get through this and, and have a very valuable lesson about when things do happen that are positive and good, maybe we won't take it for granted as much as we did before.

    15. MM

      Right.

    16. JR

      'Cause we never thought that something like this was ever gonna come along where the whole world was gonna shut down for seven, eight, nine, 10, who knows how many months.

    17. MM

      Yeah. Forced winter.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. MM

      We had one forced upon us, and something that we don't take enough time to force upon ourselves and choose upon ourselves to do. You know, you talked about optimism, which I'd love to open that up with you, and faith in mankind. And I was asked the other day about how do I trust? And this is a time in the world where there's great distrust and people don't believe, and you don't just trust, you don't, you don't trust others, you end up not trusting yourself, etc. That r- reciprocity goes back and forth and then everyone's walking in circles. But, my answer, and I never thought about it until this guy asked me this, I was like, "Well," like I'm talking to you right now, Joe. I give you, you have 100% of my trust, until you don't. I'm not coming in hedging my bet with you or anyone that I meet for the first time. I'm not coming in like, "Well, you're gonna have to really earn your trust with me. I'm looking out for you." No. You, you have 100%. You may ask me some questions right now that I'm like going, "I think he's getting at something else that's not really in my best interest." And maybe then you start losing some of my trust. But as of right now, we meet and you have 100% until it starts to decrease. And that's all, that's up to you. I, I try to go towards everybody like that first. So, how is that, and let's talk about optimism because there's foolish optimism (laughs) . There's like, and, and I don't think what you and I are saying is, "Hey, glass half full. Always see it half full." No. It, let's recognize that it's half empty (laughs) . That's the inevitable part.

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MM

      It's half empty or it's half full. Now, what's the constructive way forward? What can you do something with? The, the, the, the half the glass that got nothing in it, or the half that's got something in it? Well, I think what I can do is, is with the half that's got something in it, make something, i- ir- irrigate something, create more water so I can fill it up. I mean, it's choosing where can we be constructive? And, and you have to choose the affirmative, and that's not a foolish optimism. 'Cause a lot of times I think certain optimisms, Hallmark card optimisms can almost deny that there was the other half of the glass that was empty, or deny-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. MM

      ... there's a problem. And I'm, I'm not into, I'm not, I'm not really a purchaser of denying where there's a problem.

    24. JR

      You've got-

    25. MM

      I mean-

    26. JR

      You've got what I call whiskey philosopher wisdom. Like, if you and I were having a couple of drinks at the bar, I have a feeling you would say some cool shit that I would remember and I would take home and I would go, "Hmm." I'd be like lying in bed going, "That makes," I'm gonna remember that. That makes a lot of sense.

    27. MM

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      Where'd you get that from?

  9. 27:03 – 28:10

    The “whiskey philosopher” style: lyrics, slogans, and one-liner clarity

    1. MM

      Uh, I think, I mean, I grew up in a, family of storytellers.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MM

      I love lyrics. I love bumper stickers. I love slogans. I love to deconstruct a big conversation down to, what's a one-liner? What's the title of that song we just sang? What's the title of this, you know, this hour or whatever you and I talk? Um, what's the title of a relationship I have? What's the... And you get enough of those then you go, "Ooh, what's the album title?" Um, I, I, I think of things lyrically, and I think that may be where it comes from. Is I, is I think in a musical, in a musical way.

    4. JR

      Is this something you've acquired? Is this something you always had? Or you just sort of slowly developed it?

    5. MM

      I think, I'm guessing it was slowly developed. I mean, again, I come from a, from a family of storytellers where we sat around the table and told stories. And if you didn't tell your story good, somebody else at the table took it over.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. MM

      And when you speak up, you better be telling a good story and not dragging on or losing your train of thought 'cause somebody else will step in and roll over you.

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. MM

      So, when you wanted to get a word in, you better be a good storyteller.

    10. JR

      Well, is that how you got into acting? Like, this, the, the ability to entertain? 'Cause a storyteller is essentially an entertainer.

  10. 28:10 – 30:47

    From film school to acting: admitting the dream and the Dazed and Confused break

    1. MM

      Sure. Well, I went to film school first, because I, a- and when I look back at the diaries I really couldn't admit that I wanted to be in front of the camera as an actor. But that's what I really wanted to do. Um, but I went to film school because I felt like being a storyteller behind the camera was something that my dad, one, could digest as a possible route forward for his son. And it was all that I could digest at the time. Um, so when I made the leap to film school, I immediately would direct actors by performing myself in front of the camera. So, I really liked the, the, the, the, the first person subjective performance. And then I got that, that job in that summer of '92 on Dazed and Confused, where I ended up three lines turned into three weeks work. I'm getting paid $320 a day, people are telling me I'm good at it. I keep getting invited back to set. I'm like, "Is this fucking legal?"

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. MM

      Um, yes. And so, I went back, graduated, picked up my, packed up my U-Haul and drove west, young man. You know, two weeks out of, uh, out of graduating college. And, um, you know, I didn't have that story of roughing it when I first got out there. First two auditions I went on I, I got the job.

    4. JR

      That's pretty fucking amazing.

    5. MM

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      Did you, when, when you say that you, you didn't wanna admit that you wanted to be in front of the camera, like, what do you think was holding you back?

    7. MM

      I think it was the i- look, I was raised in a blue-collar family where you get a job and you work your way up the ladder, company ladder. To be in the arts, to be in front of a camera, the actors sounded so vain, sounded so avant-garde, sounded so European.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MM

      Sounded so (laughs) so-

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. MM

      ... so, nothing stable about it. And so to bring that up to my dad, even bringing it... Like I said, I could, it was not anything (bell dinging) in the vernacular of my dreams. I did not even dream about it. The only place that I admitted it was in my diaries. And I found those where I wrote to myself, before I could even consciously admit it, that I did wanna be an actor. All the way back since 1988. But I never admitted it until I started doing it, and then it would, turned into about 1993 that I was like, "Okay. I think I can do this. I'm giving it a shot and I love this." Um-

    12. JR

      ... it's totally understandable that you would fall into some form of self-sabotage if it came that easy. If all of a sudden, you're on Dazed and Confused, all of a sudden, you, you do your first two auditions, you get the gig, everything's rolling, you're young-

    13. MM

      Rough.

    14. JR

      ... and handsome. Woo!

    15. MM

      Come on, dream nights.

    16. JR

      (laughs) I mean, how did you self-correct?

  11. 30:47 – 36:52

    Fame hits fast: balancing reality, solitude, and the Peru/Amazon reset

    1. MM

      Tell you what I did. I, um, I got... It really happened around '96 after I did a film with Time to Kill. I remember the Friday before Time to Kill opened. That's the movie that, that, that I was the lead in a big budget John Grisham movie. That was the one that made me famous, all right? So the Friday before that movie opened, I, you know, there was 100 scripts I wanted to do. I would have done anything, do any of these scripts. 99 no you can't, one yes you can. I'm walking down the Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica, 400 people on the promenade, 396 minding their own business, four of them checking me out. Two girls that thought I was cute and a couple other people who maybe liked my shoes. The Monday following that weekend, Time to Kill opens that night. The Monday following, all of a sudden, out of those 100 scripts, 99 yeses, "You can do any of these, Matthew," one no. All of a sudden, that same promenade walk I took, 400 people, now 396 were staring at me and four people weren't, one of them was blind. All right? They, i- i- it was, it, it inverted. The world became a mirror. I noticed, "Oh shit, I don't need any strangers anymore." People are coming up to me going like, "I'm so sorry about Miss Hud," and I'm go- going, "Wait a minute. Number one, what's your name? I've never met you. How did you know I had a dog whose name is Miss Hud and has cancer?" You just skipped five (laughs) filters of-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. MM

      ... howdy, you know what I mean? And I remember feeling unbalanced about it. All of a sudden-

    4. JR

      How old were you?

    5. MM

      I'm 23 at that time.

    6. JR

      Hoo!

    7. MM

      I'm being, I'm being told, "I love you, I love you." And in my mind, I'm going, "Man, we don't throw that word around. I've said that to four people in my life." Uh, so I wanted to know what the heck was real, what really mattered, and I was looking for, uh, a place to go. I needed to get out. I needed to go, those demarcations we talked about earlier. I needed to go break a long sweat. I needed to go out and let memory catch up and see what the hell was real, what was not. So, I packed up my stuff, um, went to a monastery for about a week, and then I got back and I went off. I had this certain dream, a repe- repeating dream that came to me, and I went to Peru and flooded the Amazon for 22 days. And it was a forced solitude. Nobody there knew my name, they didn't speak, uh, English. I was forced to be with myself and my thoughts and my own company, which I was not enjoying. So, after about 12 days of shaking the monkeys off my back, figuring out what the hell I was gonna forgive myself for and what I was gonna lay down the hammer and say "Enough's enough" about, um, I came out of it, woke up one morning light as a feather and shook hands with myself and said, "We're gonna be all right, man. Uh, you're the one person I can't get rid of, McConaughey, so we might as well get along," and reentered. And that recalibration helped a lot to disseminate through all the bullshit and all the excess of affluence that was coming at me at the time, and I found some discernment. You know, I found some discrimination in my choices again, um, and moved on from there. But I've had to do that. I've had to take off on my own many times to go recalibrate.

    8. JR

      That sounds like a story of a man running and the rocks fall right behind him, like you just missed it. Like, t- tw- also, 23 years old, you weren't a child star, but it was-

    9. MM

      No.

    10. JR

      ... damn close. Like, we all know what happens when your personality develops in the spotlight and you're famous. Almost no one gets out alive.

    11. MM

      I, I mean, and I- I understand it. I- I- I wasn't ready to go out to Hollywood before I did. Hollywood's not a place to go find yourself. Hollywood's a place where you can be anything you want.

    12. JR

      Right.

    13. MM

      It's infinite yeses. Well, in the infinite yeses, as you know (ding) , the ol- the infinite options can make a tyrant of any of us.

    14. JR

      What is that noise that keeps going off? Is that on your end?

    15. MM

      That's on my end.

    16. JR

      What is that?

    17. MM

      Let me sign... I think it's emails coming in.

    18. JR

      (laughs) It's a crazy ding.

    19. MM

      Ding! Let me sign it.

    20. JR

      Is that what you get when you get emails? That would annoy-

    21. MM

      It's what I-

    22. JR

      ... the fuck out of me.

    23. MM

      (laughs) What's yours do, nothing?

    24. JR

      Nothing. I don't, I check them once a day.

    25. MM

      Oh. See, I don't text. You know why I don't te- I like the email more than text? Because I can press, I can flag an email. I can't flag a text. I wish text would allow me to flag it.

    26. JR

      Hmm.

    27. MM

      Oh, I'm gonna save that to answer it later. And if I just do text, I may forget you wrote, and then two weeks later go, "I never wrote him back."

    28. JR

      Right, I do that.

    29. MM

      Where's my beware?

    30. JR

      But at least it doesn't go ding!

  12. 36:52 – 42:32

    Kids, Hollywood, and delayed gratification: protecting identity before the spotlight

    1. JR

      No, there really is. It's, it's very unfortunate when you see that. Um, you've worked with kids that have had to play your kid. Like is that, does that feel conflicted to you when that happens? Like you almost like don't want them to do it?

    2. MM

      No, I, I, that's been some of my most comfortable roles is playing a father or a father figure. And I think that's because the one thing I always knew I wanted to be in life was a father. I knew that since I was eight years old.

    3. JR

      What I mean is for the children themselves, like do you feel weird for them?

    4. MM

      Who, my chil-

    5. JR

      No, no, the kids that are playing y- your child. Like knowing that they're gonna be in a film at a really young age and they're gonna experience all this.

    6. MM

      Um, I mean, I'll check in with, you know ... Again, what I've noticed is it's the parent that may need the recalibration.

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MM

      The kid's just fine, but then you see the, the mother or the father loving it more than they're loving it.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. MM

      Or loving that child, "Is it from the camera? We're gonna be famous?"

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. MM

      Well, you know, when I can I try to talk about, "Are your values in line here? Because your, your son or daughter's future (laughs) and who they are is depending on how you deal with this." I've also seen parents handle it really, really well. Um, "You're going, you're going to work. You have a job to do, um, if you have a talent to do that, but you still come home and you still do the chores and you're still my son or my daughter who acts just like you do and we don't do any of that other, that BS."

    13. JR

      Hm.

    14. MM

      "You're not, things aren't ******* around here." And you don't want to steal. I wouldn't want, uh, I wouldn't want my child to be raised in Hollywood by Hollywood. I now, you know ... Early in my career I was like, "No, I would never want my kids, if I have them, doing what I do." I've completely turned a 180 on that. Um, I would love if my kids got into the industry that I'm in. It's been great to me. I've met some of the most creative, awesome people in my life. But there's a time. I wouldn't want them to go find out who they are in Hollywood, in the Hollywood game, by being an actor or that kind of story. Tell your own, I want them to know their own story first before they're gonna go tell someone else's story.

    15. JR

      Yeah, I've likened it to like almost like a chemical process, like if you want to make epoxy you have to add a bunch of different ingredients. And if you don't add the ingredients while you're mixing it up, it'll never be sure. It'll never really firm up. It'll never be complete.

    16. MM

      (laughs) .

    17. JR

      And I feel like that's one of the things that happens to a lot of child actors. Like the experience of people not knowing who you are, you have to earn their respect, you have to earn their love, earn their friendship, prove yourself. Not have people love you before you even meet them.

    18. MM

      Yes.

    19. JR

      That's just, that seems toxic for children. It just seems crazy.

    20. MM

      I think it is h- highly toxic.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. MM

      Uh, you know, we started off the conversation, uh, on this topic 10 minutes ago, not many have recovered. You know?

    23. JR

      No, not many.

    24. MM

      From that, the insecurity, the lack of knowing who they are, the lack of ... Talk about resistance, you know? Hollywood's a place of, "Yes. Yes, of course you can. Be whatever you want. It's Halloween every day."

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. MM

      Now wait a minute. If you're playing dress-up every day and you have the option to be whoever the heck you want and, you know, you want to go to the club all night? Uh, you can do that too. Everything's a yes. In those infinite yeses, you can get lost and not found. Um, yeah, I think they, you know, you got to have some structure. And like I said, I went out at 22, 23. I don't think I was ready to go out there before I went out there. 'Cause I had a sense, if I didn't... As much as I had a sense of who I was, I had a very clear sense of who I was not. Um, and that helped me because I was able to see some things and be invited to some things and be around some places where I was like, "You know what? Th- this is a stop, not a stay for me. This isn't really gonna feed me (laughs) and really turn me on. This is a short-term, uh, um, you know, something I'm getting that's feeding me in the short term, but this isn't gonna last. This isn't really who I am."

    27. JR

      Yeah, I've, I've talked to a few child stars that sort of got ... Like Miley Cyrus is one that I talked to recently. And, you know, you see it in the conversation when she's describing what it was like to grow up famous, and it's, it's a very difficult path. And I don't, you know ... I think Jodie Foster, Ron Howard, there's a few that have gotten through it. Someone should actually sit down with those folks-

    28. MM

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      ... and try to figure out what's the common denominator.

    30. MM

      Yeah.

  13. 42:32 – 57:04

    Extreme roles and the craft: Dallas Buyers Club weight loss, Gold weight gain, and choosing scripts

    1. JR

      I know that was a milestone for you, and obviously, y- you won the Oscar for it, but there's something about these physical transformation roles when, when an actor does something where you realize, like, they're, they're literally torturing themselves. I mean, when you, what did, how, what did you get down to? How much did you weigh?

    2. MM

      I weighed 135. And look, you know this, I was not torturing myself. I was militant. The hardest part was making the damn choice. It was my responsibility. If I looked like I do now, playing Ron Woodroof in Dallas Buyers Club, you are out of the movie the first frame. "Oh, bullshit, he doesn't, he's not stage four HIV." I'm out. What's my job? I had to lose the weight. Once I made my mind up, I did the smart thing, I gave myself five months. I got on a diet where I'd have my tapioca pudding or whatever, three eggs in the m- egg whites in the morning, five ounce of fish, cup of vegetables for lunch, five ounce of fish, cup of vegetables for dinner, as much wine as I wanted to drink, and I lost 2.5 pounds a week like clockwork, no exercise.

    3. JR

      As much wine as you wanted to drink?

    4. MM

      Much as I wanted. Eight...

    5. JR

      How does... What kind of diet is this? (laughs)

    6. MM

      It worked. 2.5 pounds. And it didn't matter if I was going to the treadmill and burning 2,000 calories a day or not, 2.5 pounds a week, clockwork. And what happened during that time, this is another reason that I really didn't torture myself, and people say, "Oh my gosh, so it's been so hard." I was like, "No, what I learned from it, that the, that the body's more resilient than we give it credit for." I, the power I lost from the neck down equally or more so sublimated to the neck up. I was so, my mental game was so acute and so on point, I was clinically smart. It didn't matter if I drank my wine till one in the morning. At 4:30 AM, no alarm clock, bang, I was up every morning, had incredible amount of mental energy. I had no leverage from my neck down. (laughs) I mean, my knees, they had no insulation anywhere, you know? My body would hurt when I'd try to run 10 feet. But from here up, there's some things I actually miss about it.

    7. JR

      What do you think, what, what was the process? Like, why did your brain work better when you were starving yourself?

    8. MM

      I think because it wasn't relying on it. I, I think on a cellular level, I felt my body going, "Hey," to use a baseball term, "You got people over there on the bench in the dugout, then you got people out in the field that are, you know, sitting in the, uh, uh, in, in, in the bullpen not working out." On a cellular level, (laughs) cellularly, my cells in, that were in the dugout and over there in the bullpen had to get up and go, "Whoa, we're not getting fed what we used to get fed. We gotta, (sniffs) we gotta exercise here. We gotta come to. Hut hut." Um, because the, my body's not getting, we're not getting what we used to get. Um, we're not placated by what we used to get. Our insulation's gone, our, our, our, what we relying on is gone, what we used to rely on is gone. So, I think my whole body woke up and my brain got really super, super sharp on that as well. So I think it was the going without. The, there was a bit of a, a, um, it was what I went without that sharpened up and made my brain on a cellular level much more hungry.

    9. JR

      What, what do you weigh normally?

    10. MM

      188.

    11. JR

      Jesus Christ. So you lost 50 pounds?

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      There's roles where guys do this, where it defines their career in some way, like Robert De Niro when he gained weight for Raging Bull, uh, Christian Bale when he did, uh, The Machinist.

    14. MM

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Yeah. The, there's these, these roles where a guy or a woman just transform... Charlize Theron when she played Monster.

    16. MM

      Yep.

    17. JR

      They tr- they transform their body and it's, it's like a, it's a different level of, of commitment. And when you entered into that film, was this the first time you'd ever had to do that?

    18. MM

      Yeah, first time I ever had to do it.

    19. JR

      I mean, you, you got jacked for that, uh, well, I don't know how jacked you were before for that dragon movie. I'm sorry, I forget the name of it.

    20. MM

      Yeah, yeah. Reign of Fire.

    21. JR

      Reign of Fire. I fucking love that movie.

    22. MM

      Van Zandt, my baby.

    23. JR

      That was a great movie.

    24. MM

      Van Zandt. God, I miss Van Zandt.

    25. JR

      It was a great movie.

    26. MM

      Talk about a guy who was about no bullshit, boy, that was a sobering character. I, I miss that guy.

    27. JR

      Yeah, it was a fun character. But you were jacked in that movie. Were you jacked normally or did you have to get jacked for that movie?

    28. MM

      I got more jacked for that. Look, our family, my dad (laughs) , we, we come from a, um, our anatomy, the McConaugheys have big tricep.

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. MM

      Right? My dad, you'll see, you'll love this. I'd be sitting there as a kid, um, and my dad was a big guy, 6'4", 265. You know, he played Kentucky under Bear Bryant, got drafted by the Green Bay Packers. He was a big bear of a man. And he comes in the living room one night and I'm in front of the TV watching my favorite show, Incredible Hulk, and there's Luke Rick...

  14. 57:04 – 1:08:11

    Faith, science, and the Bible: practical belief and Hollywood’s discomfort

    1. JR

      ... a great movie about aliens. Like, like a, um, a movie that it gives you a, a, a different perspective on the possibilities of contact and, and just the fact that it was a Carl Sagan book and there's j- just so much good to it. That character that you played was a, uh, uh, is a fascinating guy, and I, I kinda feel like there's some of you in that guy.

    2. MM

      Sure.

    3. JR

      I mean, you are, y- you are... Am I wrong here? You are religious in some way.

    4. MM

      Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna, I, I wanna bring this up in this day and age when people go, "No, I'm not religious. I'm only spiritual." You know what the Latin root of religion is? Re ligare, and ligare means to bind together. Re means again. Well, in a world that's saying I'm only spiritual because I want unity, that's exactly what religion means. We've bastardized the, the meaning of it over time and we've excluded people and we've corporatized it and such, but, yes, I am religious. Um, that character, you know, I had written stories, I'd written a r- a college paper called John Wayne Goes West, and it was about how do you, how do you, how can you be a believer in a world of science? And I remember writing things like, uh, during the making of that movie, like, "Science is the practical pursuit of God." Um, the two are not exclusive. Uh, they, they, they, they dance together, they're, they're, they, they go together, um, belief and science. And I never saw those as contradictions, and that's part of what the reason I a- a- attacked that role and became a part of that, that movie. I wanted to play a person that had that point of view of a believer in a world of science. Not at the exclusion of science, and not at the exclusion of belief.

    5. JR

      Yeah, it's a confusing role for a lot of people if someone is a believer and also a proponent of science. Um, because they wanna know what are your literal beliefs? Like, do you, are y- are you taking the Bible at its literal word or do you use it as some sort of a guidebook of the experiences of these people that lived thousands of years ago that have been translated from multiple different languages back to English? And is there wisdom in those translations, is there wisdom in those original thoughts, these thousands of years of people contemplating and, and mulling on these things, and that so many have used these as a scaffolding for morals and ethics-

    6. MM

      Yep.

    7. JR

      ... and for societies?

    8. MM

      Yep. It's a, it's, it's, it's... I mean, you know, for people that go, "Oh, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a circus book," or people that non-believers and I'm like, "Well, it's still the, the, the best one going." Um, there's a lot of great truths that, that, that, that come out of the Bible. And it is open for, and a lot of people, it has been interpreted and reinterpreted. It has been translated, it has been handed down. Um, I for myself, I don't know what to do in my daily life with the burning bush. I don't know what to do with that. Um, I do know what to do with love your neighbor like yourself, I do know what to do with Matthew 6:22, "If they eye be single, thy whole body will be full of light." I do know what to do with some proverbs that I can take into daily practice and go, "Oh, I've felt my life. I've felt improvement. I've felt success in my relationships, in my relationship with the day, with my career by following that, um, by treating others how I wanted to be treated, the golden rule." So, I, I take the practical stuff myself.... I mean, try to- try to utilize it and- and pick out what can work for me.

    9. JR

      When you say- when you say you don't know what to do with the burning bush, like, what- what do you mean by that?

    10. MM

      I don't know what to do on a daily basis with the teaching of, um, and- and then he, you know, and then he- he- he showed up as a- as a- as a burning bush, or the magic tricks. And I don't know what to do with, and Jesus healed everyone that- and he couldn't walk, and now he touched him and he can walk. I don't know what to do with that.

    11. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MM

      Um, I don't- I don't know how to take that into my life and go, "Oh, there's something useful and practical and healthy for you, Matthew, that you can practice there." So, the magic, um, that leans in towards, you know, what we would call now more fantasy, I don't know what to do with that. I, there's- there's philosophies, and there's proverbs, and there's teachings that I think are very valid and very helpful, um, that we could all be reminded of that are in the Bible that I do find quite useful.

    13. JR

      Yeah, I think it's almost impossible to figure out what they were trying to say with a lot of the things. That's why it's so, it's open to interpretation, but also open to manipulation, and that's where people have a real problem with it when it's used for, to- to separate people, to, uh, exclude people, to marginalize people, to judge people. But it's- it's hard for people that understand th- those aspects and that those things happened to actually parse out that there's good about it too. And that-

    14. MM

      Sure.

    15. JR

      ... there's a lot of really valuable lessons in these books.

    16. MM

      100%. Um, look, I- I get it. I mean, you, you know, it's like a, what are our, what are our fathers teach us? Is your father still alive?

    17. JR

      Well, I don't really know him. I have a complicated, uh, family history.

    18. MM

      Okay. Well, fathers or father figures.

    19. JR

      I have a stepfather. He's still alive and I'm close to him.

    20. MM

      Well, your stepfather, when he goes, you'll find out some things where the messenger and the message weren't (laughs) weren't exactly in simpatico.

    21. JR

      Sure.

    22. MM

      You know what I mean?

    23. JR

      Of course.

    24. MM

      Does that mean that you throw the messenger out? Because you're like, "Oh, bullshit, you weren't following all that stuff." No, you take the message, the- the stuff that you can that- that could work for you, that maybe they wanted it for you, they couldn't follow through on it themselves. There are certain parts of the Bible that have that too. You don't throw out the whole... I don't think it's- it makes any sense to throw out the whole book. It's what we're doing in society now. I mean, we're- we're- we're- we're (laughs) we're making people persona non grata, uh, because of something they- they- they do, or, you know, and- and- and- and that is- that is right now deemed wrong, uh, or it's the hot point on a hot topic right now. You can't erase someone's entire existence. Where the heck does some forgiveness go? And again, that, like optimism, it's not erasing the crisis, it's not saying there wasn't a problem first, it's not saying that there's various parts of the Bible that have been- people have bastardized and used in the wrong way. Um, but you don't throw the whole book out and say, "Well, it's all- it's all bad then. It's all..." Because that's- it's false.

    25. JR

      Did- have you encountered difficulty expressing this, uh, in Hollywood? You know, Hollywood is, uh, predominantly left wing and very secular, or Jewish in some circles, but it's not like a place where Christian fundamental values are espoused openly. You know, a lot- a lot of Jewish folks are in Hollywood, and that seems to be okay with a lot of people. But some other religions, particularly if you're a fundamentalist Christian or if you have Christian values, a lot of people frown upon that. Why- why- why do you think that is? And have- have you had difficulties with that?

    26. MM

      Uh, I don't know. I- I haven't had difficulties. I have had (laughs) and I won't throw any people under the bus, but I have had, um, moments where I was on stage receiving an award in front of my peers in Hollywood, and there were people in the crowd that I have prayed with before dinners many times. And when I thanked God, I saw some of those people go to clap, but then notice that (laughs) whoa, this could be a bad thing on my resume, and then sit back on their hands. (laughs)

    27. JR

      Oh, wow.

    28. MM

      And I've seen people read the room and go, "Whoa, that wouldn't bode well for me in the future."

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MM

      If they're getting a job or- or getting votes or what have you.

  15. 1:08:11 – 1:20:05

    Social media culture and status theater: polarization, performative wealth, and Miami stories

    1. JR

      This thing that you're talking about with, uh, people disparaging people for their opinions and their beliefs and their, the, the, the way they're living their life, I think a lot of this is coming from this condensed way of impersonal communication that we're getting from social media. I think it's, it's just, this is so much of the way people are judging people and the way people are communicating with people. One-on-one is how human beings are supposed to talk. That's how we're supposed to work things out. And when you look at a person's eyes and you experience their, their feelings and you read their social cues, that's how we communicate and that's how we work things out and hash things out and, and figure each other out. And maybe someone has a different set of beliefs than you, but they happen to be your neighbor and you like them. And you're like, "Hey man, tell me, what's it like to be a Sikh? What, what, what is it like to be a Muslim? What is it ... What are your beliefs as a, a, a, a Quaker? Like, what are you ... What, what's going on in your life? Tell me."

    2. MM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      I've ... I had a neighbor who was one of my favorite neighbors I've ever had, he was a Scientologist. And he was a weird dude, man. But he was always friendly as hell. When we ... I, I would go outside, we'd have weird conversations about these things that he was doing and I would just try to figure him out and he'd try to figure me out and we'd ... You know, we always waved to each other, we were always friendly. I miss that guy. But he, uh, he and I, if we were talking online, I'd be like ... You know, if, if I was a younger man and I was dumber and he said something about his belief and, and I thought that was stupid, I'd probably say, "What kind of dumb shit is that? You believe that nonsense-

    4. MM

      Right.

    5. JR

      ... written by a science fiction author?" But-

    6. MM

      Right.

    7. JR

      ... talking to the guy, that, that was never the way I talked to him.

    8. MM

      Right.

    9. JR

      When he and I were looking at each other, we were just two neighbors-

    10. MM

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... trying to figure each other out and just trying to be friendly and have a harmonious neighborhood.

    12. MM

      Well, it's one of the, one of the things I, uh, I think you're gonna like, uh, about your new home, the city. I think I mentioned this to you when I, when I, when I called you to say welcome. You know, one of the great things about Austin, Texas is, even though it's the, the blueberry in the tomato soup, the, the, the more liberal city in a conservative state, you can see neighbors next door to each other talking to each other, and one has a Trump sign in their yard and the other one has a Biden sign in their yard. They're still having a conversation. No one's going sneaking out in the middle of the night to go rip that other person's sign out.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. MM

      Um, it's ... When Austin is at its best, it ha- it has that. You know, I think the, the, the ... You know, and I've got young children and they're starting to get ... We don't allow them on social media yet. But you see these people ... We live in a time where you put out something of yourself and your whole value of yourself is reliant on what the world out there, strangers you don't know comment about that. And if I put out a picture that I'm really happy and excited about on Instagram tonight, and if I'm going to look what the reaction is, and the majority says, "Oh, F you, McGarny, this ..." All of a sudden I have a bad night. I'm having a bad time. But if you go, same picture, and you go, (claps hands) "Awesome." And the consensus, awesome. All of a sudden, you've controlled how I feel and I'm having a great night. I'm in a great mood. So we're at the, we're sort of at the behest, people, of we're reacting. That's-

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. MM

      That's kind of what we're doing more on this social media.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. MM

      We're reacting. And you look at, you know, things that, things that go on on issues right now, it, it, it, it ... Everyone's reacting to, to, to things instead of, it's, in- instead of creating (laughs) the story or having an opinion coming out of the gate. Um, and hey, I understand it to some extent, because people are getting ... You get hired and fired on those things these days.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. MM

      You know? Hired and fired about how ... You're hired and fired or not hired because you don't have as many people following your whatever it is. Um, that's a measure now of, of, of what we call success in this life. You know? Our ... What's up at the top in America? Money and fame, baby. You got that, you made it in America. You are successful. We pat you on the back. We give you respect. I got nothing against money and fame. I got money and I'm famous. But, that's not where my value system lies or what I'm, what is most important to me and what I'm trying to teach my kids. There's a way to get that, and if you can do it in a way to have your value system, let's, let's pra- let's praise that. Um, but it's tough, because that's not what the world right now, especially America, rewards people for.

    21. JR

      ... yeah, I think there's a real issue with social media, uh, and particular with children, in that we're just not designed for that. We're not designed for that kind of communication, and it's so easy to dismiss someone who's just text on a screen. It's so easy to, to sh- to shut people down. And it's you see people getting praised because they're famous and because they're wealthy. I mean, how much of what social media is for a lot of young kids is seeing famous people in front of Lamborghinis with a, a million-dollar watch on? It's a bizarre posing ritual that people are doing. It's very strange.

    22. MM

      I have a funny story about that. I'm in Miami, Southeast. Now mind you, I really like Miami because it's so, uh, obvious. I mean, in LA-

Episode duration: 1:51:54

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