Joe Rogan Experience #1552 - Matthew McConaughey

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hello, Matthew.

   2. MMMatthew McConaughey0:14

      Hello, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      What's going on, man? You got a book out?

   4. MMMatthew McConaughey0:17

      Got a book out, called Greenlights.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs)

   6. MMMatthew McConaughey0:19

      Trying to catch them, trying to get 'em.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      What makes a guy who is successful as you as an actor, what makes you wanna expose more of yourself? 'Cause that's kinda what you're doing by writing a memoir, right? You're exposing your thought process, your, your, your life, your lessons.

   8. MMMatthew McConaughey0:35

      Another mo- another way of communicating. Uh, you know, what I do in my day job as an actor, um, it's got four filters from the raw expression. There's what I've ... There's my raw expression, there is what's being recorded, there's what's being edited, and there's what's being put on the screen. Um, I wanted to do something where I got rid of the filters. Writing a book, there is one filter, 'cause it's the written word. Um, what you do, what we're doing now, when you do standup, that's no filters. You know, that's the direct, it's live, the sh- the he- the Big Show is always recording, uh, sort of ultimate goal. But I wanted to, uh, I wanted to put it down and say, "Hey, I want to..." I'm part of these movies. They're usually s- written by somebody else, directed by somebody else, edited by someone else, financed by someone else. I was like, "No, I wanna go direct my own movie. I want to produce my own movie." Well, how do I do that? I wanna put the words on the page and I'd been writing for 36 years, so I had a lot of content to go through and see if it was something worthy of sharing.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:38

      Yeah, so you've been keeping a journal for 36 years?

   10. MMMatthew McConaughey1:41

       Yep.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       What made you start doing that?

   12. MMMatthew McConaughey1:44

       I think probably the, in the beginning, the usual reason someone writes in a journal, you know? "Well, my heart's broken, Gretchen Donnelly broke up with me."

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:51

       (laughs)

   14. MMMatthew McConaughey1:52

       "Well, why do I have all these dimples on my face? Why do I only have peach fuzz over my pecker and everyone else has-"

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       (laughs)

   16. MMMatthew McConaughey1:59

       And then, in my early 20s, um, I remember I was, I was kinda rolling. I was in college, I had a job, I had money in my pocket, I had a, had a nice girlfriend, uh, making my grades, my relationships were good. And I remember going, "Oh, you hadn't been writing in your journal near as much. Uh, noticed you don't do that so much when things are going well." And I said, "I think you better start writing down things when things are going well." Being, my go- my idea was that, "Hey, you're gonna get in a rut again. You'll lose your frequency again in life. You might want this to go back and look at, to help you recalibrate." And that proved to be true. Um, you know, so many times we dissect failure and, and, and, and hardships in life, but we don't dissect success. And going back in those journals, I found that there were times when I got in a rut later and I was able to go back to those journals and go, "What were your habits when you were rolling, man? Well, who were you hanging out with? Where were you going? What were you eating? What were you drinking? How much, how much sleep were you getting? How were you looking at life?" And they'd help me recalibrate in the times when I was off frequency and get back on the rails again and find my frequency again.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       What, what were the things that when things were going great, what, what was, what were the common factors?

   18. MMMatthew McConaughey3:09

       Common factors were one, check in with yourself before checking in with the world when you wake up in the morning.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       Mm-hmm.

   20. MMMatthew McConaughey3:15

       Um, really just sit there and take a little time. Um, read a little something that's between me and me. Write a little something that's between me and me before picking up the damn phone and saying, "Hey, what emails came in?" Or hopping out in the kitchen and going, when everyone else is already up going, "Hey, hey, what's up?" Take, take, take, take, 10 minutes to check in with me before checking in with the world. Um, what were the other things? Sense of humor. Sense of humor. Um, I found that I was laughing more. Um, my happiest times in my life were when I got my wink back, man, when I got my wink. If I lose my wink, it's like, oh, I'm taking things too seriously. Um, uh, so I had, I had more of a sense of humor, um, didn't tak- take things as personal in, in many ways, um, and wasn't asking permission as much (laughs) when I was, I was rolling.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       Asking permission, like what do you mean by that?

   22. MMMatthew McConaughey4:09

       Well, just asking permission about going, you know, having the confidence to b- believe in something I wanna do.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:14

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MMMatthew McConaughey4:14

       Um, and just doing it, and saying, "Hey, if you ask permission, you're already creating one of those filters away from the raw expression." Just do it. It's live.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       What, what-

   26. MMMatthew McConaughey4:22

       Don't ... you can.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:25

       What you're saying, what it sounds like is like you almost like self-medicated with a type of medica- or a type of meditation that you invented yourself. You almost like figured out a meditation, 'cause that's what people who meditate, that's what they say to do. Take an, you know, X amount of time, 10, 20, whatever it is minutes out of the day-

   28. MMMatthew McConaughey4:46

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:46

       ... focus on your breathing-

   30. MMMatthew McConaughey4:48

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   That's a thing that…

   1. MMMatthew McConaughey15:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      That's a thing that is very difficult for people to come to grips with, is that y- you know, human beings that were raised 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, they, they, it was a different world. It just was different.

   3. MMMatthew McConaughey15:13

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      And we know more now, and like you're saying, you do not choose to discipline your children that way, but it was so common back then.

   5. MMMatthew McConaughey15:25

      It was, yeah. I mean, it, I, it was, you know, my parents were probably thought they were taking it easy on their boys more than their parents treated them.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      Yes.

   7. MMMatthew McConaughey15:34

      They probably had it much more harsh.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:36

      Yeah.

   9. MMMatthew McConaughey15:36

      Uh, m- you know, and it's a, it's a, like I said, I, there are things I did not do that I should not have done for fear of getting my backside bust, okay?

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       (laughs) Yeah.

   11. MMMatthew McConaughey15:46

       So you know, there's a value in that, in that fear and consequences. And consequences go both ways, you know? There's good ones and the bad. There's a consequence for everything we do, but there were definitely things I didn't do that I should not have done, uh, for the fear of the consequences that were useful to me.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       Is this, the writing of this book, is some of it almost like, like letters to your younger self? Like a, a lesson to people who are like you coming up? Because one of the things that's so beneficial, f- uh, to young people with reading autobiographies and memoirs of successful people who've li- lived extraordinary lives is you get to see all the thought process. You get to see the, the warts, the failures, the, the whole thing, the fears, the anxiety. You get to see it all, so you go, "Oh, that Matthew McConaughey guy, he's a normal dude. He's not just the guy from Dallas Buyers Club and all these movies."

   13. MMMatthew McConaughey16:44

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       "He's a normal human being, and maybe I can one day achieve heights like him as well."

   15. MMMatthew McConaughey16:53

       Or maybe I- I read this book and I'm someone who feels like, you know, as we often do when we're going through a crisis, that we're the only ones. "And it's only happened to me."

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       Yeah.

   17. MMMatthew McConaughey17:04

       "I'm the center of the universe. No one else will understand." And you read and go, "Well here's a guy who's successful, who, shoot, I even maybe thought he just kind of rolls out of bed and makes everything look easy." Which you find out, I, I, I, I try to work to get to that point. But maybe you look and you hear it and you go, "Oh, he went through some similar things." I share some stories in here that are very subjective to me, but the more subjective and personal I got, the more I found that, oh, these are more relatable to the more amount of people out there. So you may read a story and go, "I have that story, a similar story in my life." Well here's how McConaughey handled it, or wished he would have handled it. Or here's some help he got along the way. Here's somewhere where he s- he took a walk about with himself and found out some things about himself. Maybe that's something I could do for myself. So there are some tools in the book for someone to see themselves in and help navigate our way out of crisis, red and yellow lights, but also how to navigate things when we are catching green lights, because there, I have a (laughs) I have a chapter in here called The Art of Running Downhill. Um, you know, I- I self-sabotaged, I've self-sabotaged myself when things were going too well before.... um, until I learned that that really wasn't my right, (laughs) to, to put a roof over my expectations for myself and who the hell did I think I was.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       Well, that's more common than not, isn't it? There's the, people get, what they call, uh, what is it? Imposter syndrome. You know, it's you don't feel like you deserve all the good things that are happening to you, and it just seems odd. You see it happen to other people and it almost makes sense. You see other people being very successful, and it, it, you're detached.

   19. MMMatthew McConaughey18:33

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:33

       But when it's happening to you, it's almost like this, this is uncomfortable because this is not normal, and so I'm gonna fuck this up so that I, I feel like I used to feel before. Which at least, even if it was failure, it's comfortable. I'm accustomed to it.

   21. MMMatthew McConaughey18:49

       Right. Yeah, I need some resistance.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       Yes.

   23. MMMatthew McConaughey18:51

       You know? And, and look, and I think there's very healthy ways to create resistance in our lives when we are on so-called easy street.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       Yeah.

   25. MMMatthew McConaughey18:59

       That maybe we're not challenging ourselves in the right way, you know? That we need to create resistance to overcome it to feel most alive. But there's also foolish times to, to create resistance, and the fact of that is things are going so well you think that's how it's going to be for the rest of your life. No, trust me, the uphill is coming. The drama, the real drama is coming. Don't create any false drama in front of you right now because you're kind of patronizing yourself. The real drama is going to come. Someone is going to get sick. You are going to get hurt. Something will happen in your life, the world will do unto you or you'll do it unto yourself, so don't trip yourself running downhill and faceplant and break your fricking nose just because you needed some resistance running downhill.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Yeah.

   27. MMMatthew McConaughey19:37

       Because trust me, that uphill is coming, you know what I mean? But to go back to the first part of that, I'm a, I'm a big fan of creating resistance to keep myself in check and to make sure that I'm feeling most alive to overcome the right things in my life.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       Yeah, me as well. I, I, I find physical resistance is the best thing to calm my mind and, and to provide physical challenges that allow me to i- i- it allows me to deal with, uh, success easier because there's bullshit that I have to deal with.

   29. MMMatthew McConaughey20:08

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       But the bullshit is physical.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   ... it's totally understandable…

   1. MMMatthew McConaughey30:00

      it was in my diaries. And I found those where I wrote to myself, before I could even consciously admit it, that I did wanna be an actor. All the way back since 1988. But I never admitted it until I started doing it, and then it would, turned into about 1993 that I was like, "Okay. I think I can do this. I'm giving it a shot and I love this." Um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      ... it's totally understandable that you would fall into some form of self-sabotage if it came that easy. If all of a sudden, you're on Dazed and Confused, all of a sudden, you, you do your first two auditions, you get the gig, everything's rolling, you're young-

   3. MMMatthew McConaughey30:38

      Rough.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      ... and handsome. Woo!

   5. MMMatthew McConaughey30:40

      Come on, dream nights.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:41

      (laughs) I mean, how did you self-correct?

   7. MMMatthew McConaughey30:47

      Tell you what I did. I, um, I got... It really happened around '96 after I did a film with Time to Kill. I remember the Friday before Time to Kill opened. That's the movie that, that, that I was the lead in a big budget John Grisham movie. That was the one that made me famous, all right? So the Friday before that movie opened, I, you know, there was 100 scripts I wanted to do. I would have done anything, do any of these scripts. 99 no you can't, one yes you can. I'm walking down the Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica, 400 people on the promenade, 396 minding their own business, four of them checking me out. Two girls that thought I was cute and a couple other people who maybe liked my shoes. The Monday following that weekend, Time to Kill opens that night. The Monday following, all of a sudden, out of those 100 scripts, 99 yeses, "You can do any of these, Matthew," one no. All of a sudden, that same promenade walk I took, 400 people, now 396 were staring at me and four people weren't, one of them was blind. All right? They, i- i- it was, it, it inverted. The world became a mirror. I noticed, "Oh shit, I don't need any strangers anymore." People are coming up to me going like, "I'm so sorry about Miss Hud," and I'm go- going, "Wait a minute. Number one, what's your name? I've never met you. How did you know I had a dog whose name is Miss Hud and has cancer?" You just skipped five (laughs) filters of-

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:09

      Yeah.

   9. MMMatthew McConaughey32:10

      ... howdy, you know what I mean? And I remember feeling unbalanced about it. All of a sudden-

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:14

       How old were you?

   11. MMMatthew McConaughey32:14

       I'm 23 at that time.

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:16

       Hoo!

   13. MMMatthew McConaughey32:17

       I'm being, I'm being told, "I love you, I love you." And in my mind, I'm going, "Man, we don't throw that word around. I've said that to four people in my life." Uh, so I wanted to know what the heck was real, what really mattered, and I was looking for, uh, a place to go. I needed to get out. I needed to go, those demarcations we talked about earlier. I needed to go break a long sweat. I needed to go out and let memory catch up and see what the hell was real, what was not. So, I packed up my stuff, um, went to a monastery for about a week, and then I got back and I went off. I had this certain dream, a repe- repeating dream that came to me, and I went to Peru and flooded the Amazon for 22 days. And it was a forced solitude. Nobody there knew my name, they didn't speak, uh, English. I was forced to be with myself and my thoughts and my own company, which I was not enjoying. So, after about 12 days of shaking the monkeys off my back, figuring out what the hell I was gonna forgive myself for and what I was gonna lay down the hammer and say "Enough's enough" about, um, I came out of it, woke up one morning light as a feather and shook hands with myself and said, "We're gonna be all right, man. Uh, you're the one person I can't get rid of, McConaughey, so we might as well get along," and reentered. And that recalibration helped a lot to disseminate through all the bullshit and all the excess of affluence that was coming at me at the time, and I found some discernment. You know, I found some discrimination in my choices again, um, and moved on from there. But I've had to do that. I've had to take off on my own many times to go recalibrate.

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:48

       That sounds like a story of a man running and the rocks fall right behind him, like you just missed it. Like, t- tw- also, 23 years old, you weren't a child star, but it was-

   15. MMMatthew McConaughey34:00

       No.

   16. JRJoe Rogan34:00

       ... damn close. Like, we all know what happens when your personality develops in the spotlight and you're famous. Almost no one gets out alive.

   17. MMMatthew McConaughey34:12

       I, I mean, and I- I understand it. I- I- I wasn't ready to go out to Hollywood before I did. Hollywood's not a place to go find yourself. Hollywood's a place where you can be anything you want.

   18. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       Right.

   19. MMMatthew McConaughey34:23

       It's infinite yeses. Well, in the infinite yeses, as you know (ding) , the ol- the infinite options can make a tyrant of any of us.

   20. JRJoe Rogan34:30

       What is that noise that keeps going off? Is that on your end?

   21. MMMatthew McConaughey34:33

       That's on my end.

   22. JRJoe Rogan34:34

       What is that?

   23. MMMatthew McConaughey34:34

       Let me sign... I think it's emails coming in.

   24. JRJoe Rogan34:37

       (laughs) It's a crazy ding.

   25. MMMatthew McConaughey34:40

       Ding! Let me sign it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan34:42

       Is that what you get when you get emails? That would annoy-

   27. MMMatthew McConaughey34:45

       It's what I-

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:45

       ... the fuck out of me.

   29. MMMatthew McConaughey34:47

       (laughs) What's yours do, nothing?

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:48

       Nothing. I don't, I check them once a day.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   What, what do you…

   1. MMMatthew McConaughey45:00

      working out." On a cellular level, (laughs) cellularly, my cells in, that were in the dugout and over there in the bullpen had to get up and go, "Whoa, we're not getting fed what we used to get fed. We gotta, (sniffs) we gotta exercise here. We gotta come to. Hut hut." Um, because the, my body's not getting, we're not getting what we used to get. Um, we're not placated by what we used to get. Our insulation's gone, our, our, our, what we relying on is gone, what we used to rely on is gone. So, I think my whole body woke up and my brain got really super, super sharp on that as well. So I think it was the going without. The, there was a bit of a, a, um, it was what I went without that sharpened up and made my brain on a cellular level much more hungry.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      What, what do you weigh normally?

   3. MMMatthew McConaughey45:48

      188.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:49

      Jesus Christ. So you lost 50 pounds?

   5. MMMatthew McConaughey45:52

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:53

      There's roles where guys do this, where it defines their career in some way, like Robert De Niro when he gained weight for Raging Bull, uh, Christian Bale when he did, uh, The Machinist.

   7. MMMatthew McConaughey46:04

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:05

      Yeah. The, there's these, these roles where a guy or a woman just transform... Charlize Theron when she played Monster.

   9. MMMatthew McConaughey46:12

      Yep.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       They tr- they transform their body and it's, it's like a, it's a different level of, of commitment. And when you entered into that film, was this the first time you'd ever had to do that?

   11. MMMatthew McConaughey46:23

       Yeah, first time I ever had to do it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       I mean, you, you got jacked for that, uh, well, I don't know how jacked you were before for that dragon movie. I'm sorry, I forget the name of it.

   13. MMMatthew McConaughey46:31

       Yeah, yeah. Reign of Fire.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       Reign of Fire. I fucking love that movie.

   15. MMMatthew McConaughey46:35

       Van Zandt, my baby.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:35

       That was a great movie.

   17. MMMatthew McConaughey46:36

       Van Zandt. God, I miss Van Zandt.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       It was a great movie.

   19. MMMatthew McConaughey46:40

       Talk about a guy who was about no bullshit, boy, that was a sobering character. I, I miss that guy.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       Yeah, it was a fun character. But you were jacked in that movie. Were you jacked normally or did you have to get jacked for that movie?

   21. MMMatthew McConaughey46:51

       I got more jacked for that. Look, our family, my dad (laughs) , we, we come from a, um, our anatomy, the McConaugheys have big tricep.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:58

       (laughs)

   23. MMMatthew McConaughey46:58

       Right? My dad, you'll see, you'll love this. I'd be sitting there as a kid, um, and my dad was a big guy, 6'4", 265. You know, he played Kentucky under Bear Bryant, got drafted by the Green Bay Packers. He was a big bear of a man. And he comes in the living room one night and I'm in front of the TV watching my favorite show, Incredible Hulk, and there's Luke Rick...

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       (laughs)

   25. MMMatthew McConaughey47:16

       And I'm, like, standing in front of the TV doing all this. He goes, "War, what you doing?" I was like, "Dad, look at him, man. I mean, he's got these baseball-sized biceps. Look at them, wow." And he goes, "Uh-huh." And he takes off his shirt and he goes, "Let me tell you something, son." He goes, "That right there," he pulled up his bicep, he goes, "That's nice, makes the girls scream. You know? It's for show." He goes, "That right there," he goes, "That's the work muscle. That's the one that puts the roof over our head. That's for dough." (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:55

       (laughs)

   27. MMMatthew McConaughey47:55

       (laughs) Show and dough. The triceps were for dough. So I had, I had big triceps. So when I went and worked out, and if I take a little bit of creatine, my triceps go bananas.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:04

       So that was a, a minor transformation. It didn't, wasn't that difficult to do?

   29. MMMatthew McConaughey48:09

       No. It was, it was, it was minor. It was a lot of, lot of boxing and, uh, um, and, and, and, and just some nice, you know, throwing some weight around.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       You just got fit?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:35

   When you say- when…

   1. MMMatthew McConaughey1:00:00

      that, that come out of the Bible. And it is open for, and a lot of people, it has been interpreted and reinterpreted. It has been translated, it has been handed down. Um, I for myself, I don't know what to do in my daily life with the burning bush. I don't know what to do with that. Um, I do know what to do with love your neighbor like yourself, I do know what to do with Matthew 6:22, "If they eye be single, thy whole body will be full of light." I do know what to do with some proverbs that I can take into daily practice and go, "Oh, I've felt my life. I've felt improvement. I've felt success in my relationships, in my relationship with the day, with my career by following that, um, by treating others how I wanted to be treated, the golden rule." So, I, I take the practical stuff myself.... I mean, try to- try to utilize it and- and pick out what can work for me.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

      When you say- when you say you don't know what to do with the burning bush, like, what- what do you mean by that?

   3. MMMatthew McConaughey1:00:58

      I don't know what to do on a daily basis with the teaching of, um, and- and then he, you know, and then he- he- he showed up as a- as a- as a burning bush, or the magic tricks. And I don't know what to do with, and Jesus healed everyone that- and he couldn't walk, and now he touched him and he can walk. I don't know what to do with that.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MMMatthew McConaughey1:01:15

      Um, I don't- I don't know how to take that into my life and go, "Oh, there's something useful and practical and healthy for you, Matthew, that you can practice there." So, the magic, um, that leans in towards, you know, what we would call now more fantasy, I don't know what to do with that. I, there's- there's philosophies, and there's proverbs, and there's teachings that I think are very valid and very helpful, um, that we could all be reminded of that are in the Bible that I do find quite useful.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

      Yeah, I think it's almost impossible to figure out what they were trying to say with a lot of the things. That's why it's so, it's open to interpretation, but also open to manipulation, and that's where people have a real problem with it when it's used for, to- to separate people, to, uh, exclude people, to marginalize people, to judge people. But it's- it's hard for people that understand th- those aspects and that those things happened to actually parse out that there's good about it too. And that-

   7. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:14

      Sure.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:14

      ... there's a lot of really valuable lessons in these books.

   9. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:20

      100%. Um, look, I- I get it. I mean, you, you know, it's like a, what are our, what are our fathers teach us? Is your father still alive?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:30

       Well, I don't really know him. I have a complicated, uh, family history.

   11. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:34

       Okay. Well, fathers or father figures.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

       I have a stepfather. He's still alive and I'm close to him.

   13. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:41

       Well, your stepfather, when he goes, you'll find out some things where the messenger and the message weren't (laughs) weren't exactly in simpatico.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:48

       Sure.

   15. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:48

       You know what I mean?

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:48

       Of course.

   17. MMMatthew McConaughey1:02:48

       Does that mean that you throw the messenger out? Because you're like, "Oh, bullshit, you weren't following all that stuff." No, you take the message, the- the stuff that you can that- that could work for you, that maybe they wanted it for you, they couldn't follow through on it themselves. There are certain parts of the Bible that have that too. You don't throw out the whole... I don't think it's- it makes any sense to throw out the whole book. It's what we're doing in society now. I mean, we're- we're- we're- we're (laughs) we're making people persona non grata, uh, because of something they- they- they do, or, you know, and- and- and- and that is- that is right now deemed wrong, uh, or it's the hot point on a hot topic right now. You can't erase someone's entire existence. Where the heck does some forgiveness go? And again, that, like optimism, it's not erasing the crisis, it's not saying there wasn't a problem first, it's not saying that there's various parts of the Bible that have been- people have bastardized and used in the wrong way. Um, but you don't throw the whole book out and say, "Well, it's all- it's all bad then. It's all..." Because that's- it's false.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:50

       Did- have you encountered difficulty expressing this, uh, in Hollywood? You know, Hollywood is, uh, predominantly left wing and very secular, or Jewish in some circles, but it's not like a place where Christian fundamental values are espoused openly. You know, a lot- a lot of Jewish folks are in Hollywood, and that seems to be okay with a lot of people. But some other religions, particularly if you're a fundamentalist Christian or if you have Christian values, a lot of people frown upon that. Why- why- why do you think that is? And have- have you had difficulties with that?

   19. MMMatthew McConaughey1:04:31

       Uh, I don't know. I- I haven't had difficulties. I have had (laughs) and I won't throw any people under the bus, but I have had, um, moments where I was on stage receiving an award in front of my peers in Hollywood, and there were people in the crowd that I have prayed with before dinners many times. And when I thanked God, I saw some of those people go to clap, but then notice that (laughs) whoa, this could be a bad thing on my resume, and then sit back on their hands. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:07

       Oh, wow.

   21. MMMatthew McConaughey1:05:10

       And I've seen people read the room and go, "Whoa, that wouldn't bode well for me in the future."

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:17

       Mm-hmm.

   23. MMMatthew McConaughey1:05:18

       If they're getting a job or- or getting votes or what have you.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:23

       Yeah.

   25. MMMatthew McConaughey1:05:23

       Um, I have seen that. I've witnessed that. Um, I don't- I don't judge them for it. I just wish, you know, that- that- that it was- It seems like a silly argument. There's- it's a... You know, one of the things that our- our- our people, some people in our industry, not all of them, but there's- there's some that go to the left so far, as, uh, our friend Jordan Peterson, who's back, um, saw his video of him being back, that go to the illiberal left side so far, that is so condescending and patronizing to 50% of the world that need the empathy that the liberal side gives and should give. Um, to- to- to- to throw somebody's... Illegitimize them because they say they are a believer, it's just so arrogant, uh, and in some ways hypocritical to me. Um, yeah, so I haven't run into, you know, I haven't headbutted trouble on that, but I've always, look, my- my career, I've pretty much gone my own- my own path and by hook or by crook, just trying to figure a way out into- into what I was doing. And I haven't- I haven't measured or noticed where it has harmed or got in my way of what I wanted to achieve in- in Hollywood.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:49

       I think you slipped through the net.You got far-

   27. MMMatthew McConaughey1:06:52

       Because-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:52

       ... enough down the river where it's not gonna be a problem. (laughs)

   29. MMMatthew McConaughey1:06:56

       Well, kinda like when I, you know ... Like my mom when I first got famous, you know? It's this great story in the book. Um, right when I got famous, I'm trying to figure my own shit out, right? And then, uh, next night I get a call. My buddy says, "Hey, you watching this?" I'm like, "What?" And he goes, "Turn on Hard Copy." And there's my mom with a cameraman taking a guy through our house going, "This is where I caught him in bed with Melissa."

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:19

       (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:51:54