Joe Rogan Experience #1573 - Matthew Yglesias

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum music plays) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:02

      (drum music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Um, since we don't, we don't have, we don't record an intro for Spotify anymore, so-

   4. MYMatthew Yglesias0:18

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      ... tell me who you are and what you do.

   6. MYMatthew Yglesias0:21

      I'm Matthew Yglesias. I'm the host of The, The Weeds podcast, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm also the author of The Slow Boring Newsletter, and a book, One Billion Americans.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      And that's what I wanna talk to you about. Pull the sucker up so it's, like, one fist away from your face.

   8. MYMatthew Yglesias0:35

      All right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      There you go. Perfect.

   10. MYMatthew Yglesias0:36

       All right, I'm closer.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Um, One Billion Americans.

   12. MYMatthew Yglesias0:38

       It's a lot.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       So explain, if you could, um, give us the CliffsNotes of what the concept of One Billion Americans is.

   14. MYMatthew Yglesias0:46

       Okay. So the concept is that there should be a billion Americans. Um, I like to keep it simple. No, so, so here's the idea, right? So, uh, we got China. It's growing out there. There's a lot of concern, you know, internationally about America's role in the world. We've also got a lot of polarization in our politics, a lot of sort of gridlock, deadlock, um, kind of stagnation and, and infighting. And I, I'm a politics guy. I live in DC, cover Congress. I wanted to write a book that kind of elevates beyond that, thinks about America's role in the world and says the way we are gonna meet this challenge of rising international competition is the way we became such a great power historically, and that's by growing our population with more openness to immigrants, doing more to support parents and young families, and then everything that comes downstream from that, you know, where are people gonna live, how are we gonna get around, how are we gonna solve those problems.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       Um, how much pushback have you gotten from this idea? 'Cause it seems like a lot of people think that overpopulation is a giant problem, and then when you say, "We should triple plus the amount of people in the United States if we want to compete with the rest of the world," I would imagine a lot of people are like, "What are you smoking, Matthew Yglesias?"

   16. MYMatthew Yglesias1:59

       No, the, I mean, the book's really good, so everyone-

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       (laughs)

   18. MYMatthew Yglesias2:01

       ... who reads it is just like, "Oh, you convinced me." And there's-

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:04

       At least you're humble.

   20. MYMatthew Yglesias2:04

       ... there's, there's no pushback at all. Um, no, uh, yes. Uh, there is concern about overpopulation. That's something that... You know, so there's people from the right. They don't like immigrants. They don't like immigration. Uh, they-

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:16

       Why is that?

   22. MYMatthew Yglesias2:16

       ... they see it through that lens.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:17

       Let's, let's start with that.

   24. MYMatthew Yglesias2:18

       Well-

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Because this is a country-

   26. MYMatthew Yglesias2:19

       ... tell me.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       ... of immigrants. It's a, it's a very strange thing to have a country that is entirely comprised of people who came from somewhere else other than Native Americans. Right? Entirely comprised. And yet, there's a giant population that doesn't like immigrants.

   28. MYMatthew Yglesias2:37

       Yeah, I mean, look. Some of it's a question of taste. You know, people like different places. People like different kinds of things. I think the best parts of America are places that have a lot of people from different places. To me-

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:48

       Yeah.

   30. MYMatthew Yglesias2:48

       ... you know, whether that's, that's Austin, where we are, New York, where I'm from, it's like, it's cool. Like, that's America at its best. Some people don't like it. Uh, there's also the legality question though, right? Starting in the 1980s and 1990s, we built up a substantial group of people who were living here illegally. Uh, I'm for, you know, a-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Well, the rats don't…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      recreated in rat population density studies. I'm sure you've probably gotten into some of this when you started looking at populations-

   2. MYMatthew Yglesias15:04

      Well, the rats don't really drive though.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:06

      They don't. But they- it does, when, when they have these rat population density studies, it does mimic what happens in big cities in terms of violence, in terms of mental illness. Like, when you have a certain amount of rats in a large containment ... You, you know about all this, right?

   4. MYMatthew Yglesias15:20

      Yeah, I, I got it, rats, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Yeah.

   6. MYMatthew Yglesias15:23

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      But if you ever-

   8. MYMatthew Yglesias15:24

      I have, yeah, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:25

      R- read or r- read, read it rather?

   10. MYMatthew Yglesias15:27

       I have.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:28

       Any of the stuff? Yeah.

   12. MYMatthew Yglesias15:28

       So, okay, so let, let, let's, let's distinguish a couple things, right?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       Okay.

   14. MYMatthew Yglesias15:31

       So, I'm not so sure about the friendliness, right? 'Cause you get into like ... I don't wanna cast aspersions but you ever been to, like, New Hampshire?

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       Yes.

   16. MYMatthew Yglesias15:39

       Like small towns up there? People there, they're, they're kinda assholes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       (laughs)

   18. MYMatthew Yglesias15:42

       Yeah. "We kinda keep to ourselves up here."

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:44

       Yeah.

   20. MYMatthew Yglesias15:45

       Yeah, so pe- people are friendly here but, you know, there's, there's some small town weirdos, uh, up in New England.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       I have a theory about that as well.

   22. MYMatthew Yglesias15:51

       Um, Los Angeles, now the traffic, right on. You know, I'm ... Every time I go to Southern California I think, "Oh man, this weather's nice. People here must be happy all the time." And then I try to meet up with somebody and I get on the road- (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. MYMatthew Yglesias16:06

       ... it's a fucking nightmare.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       It's a fucking nightmare.

   26. MYMatthew Yglesias16:07

       Um, so, you know, that's gonna make people mad. Now the rats, right? So, what they're studying there, I think, is crowding.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Mm-hmm.

   28. MYMatthew Yglesias16:15

       You know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Yes.

   30. MYMatthew Yglesias16:15

       Which is not exactly the same as density. Because we, you know, like, we build buildings, right?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Just give me a…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      you're a restaurant and you have turkey on the menu and you have turkey right next to like a, a T-bone steak, people are gonna be like, "Mm."

   2. MYMatthew Yglesias30:05

      Just give me a steak every time.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Yeah, I'm not going with the turkey. Get the fuck out of here.

   4. MYMatthew Yglesias30:07

      I agree. I'm not, I'm not a turkey guy.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Yeah, it's-

   6. MYMatthew Yglesias30:10

      I don't know how we got on this.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      But chicken is delicious. Chicken is like su- ... Chicken ... Here's a weird thing about chicken. It used to be expensive. Like there was one of the, uh, I think it was ... Which president that was running for office and one of his promises was a chicken in every pot?

   8. MYMatthew Yglesias30:25

      That was Hoover, right? Was-

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      I think it was.

   10. MYMatthew Yglesias30:26

       ... he gave us a chicken in every pot.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       Yes.

   12. MYMatthew Yglesias30:27

       And then, and then we got the Depression.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:29

       Yeah.

   14. MYMatthew Yglesias30:30

       Uh, but yeah, chicken was high end. Now I ... So unfortunately my, uh, my knowledgeable friends say that the chickens are in horrifically cruel conditions.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       Many are.

   16. MYMatthew Yglesias30:41

       And that's how they got so cheap. So-

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       That's true.

   18. MYMatthew Yglesias30:43

       ... I don't know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       But you can buy free range chickens.

   20. MYMatthew Yglesias30:45

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       You just have to make sure that you're ethical in your pursuit of, you know, where, where your chickens are grown. And-

   22. MYMatthew Yglesias30:52

       Find the good ones.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       Yeah, it's ... But even then.

   24. MYMatthew Yglesias30:54

       Be a backyard chicken person.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       Being a backyard chicken person-

   26. MYMatthew Yglesias30:57

       Like the, like the weirdos in Portland.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       Yeah, I was a backyard chicken person.

   28. MYMatthew Yglesias30:59

       Oh, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       But it be- turned into a coyote apocalypse.

   30. MYMatthew Yglesias31:02

       (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Anybody else, yeah. …

   1. MYMatthew Yglesias45:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Anybody else, yeah.

   3. MYMatthew Yglesias45:01

      It's one of the greatest things, it's one of the last bastions we have is that, you know, everybody in a given city usually roots for the football team. You know, Black, white, Latino, young, old, religious, secular. So you know it's Democrats and Republicans who are in there, they're all rooting for the team. It's fine to me that, you know, athletes, you become famous, you wanna use your platform, you wanna do good. I mean, that's great. But it's good to see people care passionately about hating the Dallas Cowboys rather than an ideological disagreement.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:38

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MYMatthew Yglesias45:38

      You know, I mean, I'm from DC so you know, our-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:40

      I know what you're saying.

   7. MYMatthew Yglesias45:40

      ... our team, our team rivals with, with, with the, uh, with the Cowboys. It's cool to see those kinda cross-cutting things exist in a society. But we have, like, fewer of them, right? It seems like if you, you know, like, you buy a car, and that's gonna be a political statement based on what c- And I know, so it's like, I, I drive a Prius, right? So people see me coming, and it's like they know who I'm voting for-

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:01

      Ugh.

   9. MYMatthew Yglesias46:01

      ... based on that, right? And it's not, it's not wrong, but I don't think it's good, you know? Like, it would be better to be just more random.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       Yeah. No, I see what you're saying. Yeah, well, the more ways that we can separate people, the, you know, the, the more separating we're gonna have. It's like, it is true that if you look at a Prius, I mean, I want, I would like to see, like, a breakdown, like a pie chart.

   11. MYMatthew Yglesias46:27

       Right. How many, how many Prius owners voted for Trump?

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       (laughs)

   13. MYMatthew Yglesias46:29

       It's like, it can't be a lot, right? (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       Right, it's like what, I wonder what the number is. It's probably, like, less, it's probably single digits.

   15. MYMatthew Yglesias46:37

       I mean, it can't be a lot. It would just, I would be sh- If somebody rolled up in a Prius and got out and had a MAGA hat on, like, my mind would be fucking blown, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       That sounds like something that a provocative comedian would do.

   17. MYMatthew Yglesias46:49

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       If someone was just trying-

   19. MYMatthew Yglesias46:50

       But it's weird, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       ... to be silly.

   21. MYMatthew Yglesias46:51

       Like, is that, is that healthy for society that we feel like we can infer so much about somebody for some totally... It's like I, I just, like, I wanted a reliable car.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       Is it an act to

   23. NANarrator47:01

       them? Right.

   24. MYMatthew Yglesias47:01

       They got good gas mileage.

   25. JRJoe Rogan47:03

       Yeah.

   26. MYMatthew Yglesias47:03

       And they'd fit in my, I've got this tiny-ass garage, so, like, most cars won't even fit in there, but, but my Prius does. So, you know, that's good, good for me.

   27. JRJoe Rogan47:11

       Listen, my friend Greg has a Prius. I shit on him all the time for it, but it's a good car.

   28. MYMatthew Yglesias47:15

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:15

       Bill Burr, my buddy Bill Burr had a Prius forever. It's not, they're not the worst cars in the world. They're super reliable. They just look like shit.

   30. MYMatthew Yglesias47:22

       It's boring, it's boring. (laughs)
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00

   The only way that's…

   1. MYMatthew Yglesias1:00:00

      Also, you know, people like it. It, it'll be cool. I have some hope that all this Zoom and stuff will do that, but I also have some doubts. I mean I'm just not sure that you can fully replicate the sort of value of in-person interaction. Uh, and it's a, it's just a way that I do think we're, we're different from rats.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      The only way that's ever gonna come about is through virtual reality. Virtual reality if, if it gets to a point where you and I can put on goggles and be in a room together almost like this.

   3. MYMatthew Yglesias1:00:28

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

      That's pretty close.

   5. MYMatthew Yglesias1:00:30

      Well, I think it's... I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not quite technical enough to know what the problem is. But to me the issue with all kinds of Zoom things, right?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MYMatthew Yglesias1:00:39

      It's not the visual experience, it's the lags. You know, like the hardest thing for me as, as a professional talker about anything remote, you know, not just video, right? You do, um-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

      Just latency?

   9. MYMatthew Yglesias1:00:53

      Yeah, the latency. It's hard, it's hard to have a conversation when you're constantly worried about the timing...... and the interruptions-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       When you talk, yeah.

   11. MYMatthew Yglesias1:01:01

       ... and how that back and forth works. It's very unnatural. And I don't know, like, if there's gonna be a VR solution for that. Like, I think that latency's a killer.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       The latency is a killer, but the latency is not as bad if you have headphones on, if both of you have headphones on. The problem is o- oftentimes one person has speakers and the other person is using headphones, and when the one person is talking, the way Zoom works and Skype works, it's very difficult for you to hear the other person talking while you're talking. It sort of drowns everything out.

   13. MYMatthew Yglesias1:01:32

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       And it, it, it fucks up... I've had some brutal conversations with people-

   15. MYMatthew Yglesias1:01:36

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

       ... where they literally don't even hear what I'm saying. Like, they're saying something wrong and I'm like, "Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What are you sayi-" And they just keep going. I'm like, "Hold on. Hold on. Hold on! You can't... That's not real. Like, stop."

   17. MYMatthew Yglesias1:01:46

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:46

       And they're like, "Oh, Jesus." And then you realize, like, okay, they, they could barely hear me while they were talking. I can't really talk. Whereas, like, if you're talking and I'm like, "What?" And then you hear it, it's like we're in the same room. We're also wearing headphones together, which is better than even being in the same room and not having headphones on-

   19. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:03

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

       ... because your voice in my ears, like, there's a couple times I've talked to you earlier where I realized it as I was doing it. I was like, "Oh." Like-

   21. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:10

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

       ... "I don't wanna do that." Like, it's just the thing of learning the rhythm of people communicating, but when, when the headphone's, your voice is as loud as my voice.

   23. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:19

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       And it's at the same... It's right there in the ears. So it locks you in.

   25. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:22

       Well, and we're, uh, you're, you're Italian? Is that-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:25

       Mostly.

   27. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:25

       Yeah, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:25

       Yeah.

   29. MYMatthew Yglesias1:02:25

       And I'm, I'm Jewish mostly and, you know, New York, New Jersey and, you know, uh, it is a stereotype people are like, "Oh," but, like, we're always talking over each other at dinner-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       Yes.

Episode duration: 3:08:43