Joe Rogan Experience #1583 - John Terzian & Craig Susser

1. 0:00 – 0:14

   Intro

   1. JTJohn Terzian0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. CSCraig Susser0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

2. 0:14 – 1:19

   Meet the restaurateurs: H. Wood Group and Craig’s Restaurant

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What up? What up, my brother? Uh, so gentlemen, why don't we, let's start, just introduce yourself. John, introduce yourself. Tell people what you do.

   2. JTJohn Terzian0:21

      I'm John Terzian. I own a company called H. Wood Group. So we have restaurants, nightclubs, Delilah, Nice Guy, Bootsy Bellows are some of them.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      And Craig?

   4. CSCraig Susser0:31

      Uh, I'm Craig Susser. My God, I feel like such a slacker compared to that.

   5. JTJohn Terzian0:34

      Yeah? You should.

   6. CSCraig Susser0:35

      Uh, I own a place called Craig's Restaurant-

   7. JTJohn Terzian0:37

      (laughs)

   8. CSCraig Susser0:37

      ... and, uh, and a, uh, a vegan ice cream company called Craig's Vegan, which-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:41

      A place called Craig's. Very modest. It's one of the best restaurants in LA.

   10. CSCraig Susser0:45

       Yeah. Thank you.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Very, uh, highly respected place.

   12. JTJohn Terzian0:47

       Yep.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       And we- we're here to talk about what the fuck is happening to the restaurant industry during this pandemic and how crazy it is. Um, you know, I- I, I've talked about this before but having you guys on, so you could say firsthand what it's been like to you, and what this experience has been like, and, uh, how poorly it's been handled. Just, I wanna give people a sense of this at home, what it's like from two men who have made their living in the hospitality and restaurant industry.

   14. JTJohn Terzian1:17

       Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you wanna start, Craig?

3. 1:19 – 3:40

   Rule-followers getting crushed: costs, retrofits, and employee fallout

   1. CSCraig Susser1:19

      Well, no. It, it... The funny thing is, it's like w- we're the rule-followers.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:23

      Yeah.

   3. CSCraig Susser1:24

      We're the ones that are used to handling the health department. We're the ones that are used to, uh, you know, doing everything that, uh, you know, from a safety standpoint. Right? And now, we're the ones that are being crushed or being picked on, so to speak, by... But that's the way a lot of people in the industry feel, because we're the ones that are being shut down in a city, um, where a lot of other businesses are remaining open, like malls, distribution centers, markets.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:51

      Stores.

   5. CSCraig Susser1:52

      I mean, you, you can go to a mall and go shopping. You can go on an airplane from LA to, you know, New York, take your mask off, and eat, and that's okay. But you can't eat outdoors in a restaurant in LA that's following social distancing, all the health guidelines. I mean, we know our business. And so, it's been really hard since, what, it started March 15th. We-

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:18

      Yep.

   7. CSCraig Susser2:18

      ... we shut down. Um, we were then told to put glass in between our, our booths, so we did that. We opened for about 10 days. Um, we did UV lights in the, in the, in the air-conditioning systems.

   8. JTJohn Terzian2:29

      Air filtration, all the stup- uh, everything.

   9. CSCraig Susser2:31

      Absolutely. And then we built patios. Um, I've personally spent $250,000 abiding by the rules that were set forth by the state, by the county, by the governors, by, by everybody. And, and then to just kind of be shut down is really, really difficult. And it's not about me, and it's not about my restaurant, and it's not about John. It's not about... It's about the employees. It's about the dishwashers, and the busboys, and the servers that live day to day on the money that they make at the restaurant. It's their livelihood. It's how they feed their families. They send money back to the countries that they came from, you know? Th- this is a larger issue. And, and the reason it's a larger issue is, one little restaurant like Craig's, we have 90 employees. A furniture store might have five or six. So when you shut down an industry like that, it really has a huge economic impact. And then it has a social impact, because we all love to eat. It's the one thing we have in common.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Yeah.

   11. CSCraig Susser3:30

       We like to get together as people.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       I'm a, I'm a giant fan of restaurants. I mean-

   13. JTJohn Terzian3:34

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       ... it's one of my favorite things to do, is to go out to eat. And living in LA, it was so frustrating.

   15. JTJohn Terzian3:40

       Yeah.

4. 3:40 – 4:56

   No communication, last-minute orders, and fear of speaking out

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      It was bi- it was bizarre. It di- it doesn't make sense. Now, when you guys get the orders, when they tell you what's shut down or what's open, is there anyone you communicate with? Is there anyone that's involved in government that you've had conversations with?

   2. JTJohn Terzian3:52

      No. No, that's the issue. That's the biggest issue that we have, is they, they refuse to communicate to any of us. And I can't quite figure out why. We hear about it on the news. We've, we've joined with about 40-

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:05

      Yeah.

   4. JTJohn Terzian4:05

      ... 30, 40 other, like, main owners, you know, that, that are all in the area. And I think it's the one thing that's kind of a, a silver lining in all this, is that we've all teamed up to kind of like try to figure out what's going on. But we find out about it from the news, and we have to just make these moves within 24 hours. It's, it's absolutely absurd. And we've reached out. I've reached out to Newsom, I've reached out to Garcetti, and they do nothing, you know? They, they put you on phony task force, they lie, you know? They, they, they have no idea how serious this is. And I commend you for having us on. No one else wants to speak about it. Everyone's too scared of backlash.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:41

      But what backlash? What... I, I don't think they understand that-

   6. JTJohn Terzian4:44

      I, I think people are-

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:45

      ... LA is crumbling right now, right?

   8. CSCraig Susser4:46

      Right.

   9. JTJohn Terzian4:46

      Yeah, I think people are thinking it's black and white. If you say anything somewhat negative, they view you as you're anti-COVID, you're, you're wanting to kill everybody. And that's not the case.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       You're a science-denier.

   11. JTJohn Terzian4:56

       Right. Yeah. That's not the case.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       You're cruel.

5. 4:56 – 6:12

   Rapid testing as a workable alternative (restaurants, shows, private events)

   1. CSCraig Susser4:56

      Yeah. Right, but that's, but that's not the issue. So, we're not denying that there's an issue. We're not denying that people are getting sick. We're not denying that there are... We all are in this together. So, how do you do it well? How do you do it smartly? Where should we be spending money? Um, a perfect example is, they're doing rapid testing in certain areas. So instead of losing all of this revenue, why don't they invest in smart technology that has rapid testing, that allows people to go to a restaurant, get a rapid test, you're positive or negative, and then you get to go into the restaurant?

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:29

      Like we did here today.

   3. JTJohn Terzian5:31

      Exactly.

   4. CSCraig Susser5:31

      Exactly.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:31

      We got rapid tested today.

   6. JTJohn Terzian5:33

      Exactly.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:33

      Everyone's fine.

   8. JTJohn Terzian5:34

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:34

      We can sit down, have a conversation, have no paranoia.

   10. JTJohn Terzian5:36

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:36

       You could do that at a restaurant. You could have the... We were, I was telling you about Stubbs Barbecue here in, in Austin-

   12. JTJohn Terzian5:41

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:41

       ... where Dave Chappelle and I have been doing shows.

   14. JTJohn Terzian5:43

       Great establishment.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       We do 400 seats. We test everyone. People get there way in advance. They test them.

   16. JTJohn Terzian5:49

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:49

       They get a to- a COVID test, which gives them a nice peace of mind, like, "Oh, great, I don't have it."

   18. JTJohn Terzian5:53

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:53

       Then you get to sit down and enjoy a show. And the place is packed. And so, the business is making money, everyone's having a good time. It's, it's possible.

   20. CSCraig Susser6:01

       Well, that's what, that's what a lot of people are doing in LA, right? So they're having parties in LA, and a lot of them are doing rapid testing beforehand so everybody gets a wristband, then everybody in the party knows that everybody's negative.

6. 6:12 – 8:48

   LA’s broader deterioration: homelessness, encampments, and enforcement threats

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:12

      But isn't, isn't the mayor s- threatening to shut those kind of parties down?

   2. JTJohn Terzian6:15

      He's threatened to shut water off, like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:17

      Yeah.

   4. JTJohn Terzian6:17

      ... like, and by the way-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:18

      And power.

   6. JTJohn Terzian6:18

      ... he- he's done it. Yeah, water-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:19

      Yeah.

   8. JTJohn Terzian6:19

      ... and power, which we're living in like a dictatorship. I lit- I literally feel like LA's like a third-world country right now.... never seen anything like this.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:25

      Well, if you go to Venice or you go to downtown LA and you see the encampments, it's fucking bananas.

   10. JTJohn Terzian6:31

       Yeah. S-

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:31

       I mean, third world countries wouldn't allow that shit.

   12. JTJohn Terzian6:34

       Right. But, but, but-

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       It's worse.

   14. JTJohn Terzian6:35

       This is some sort of dictatorship happening that, uh, we, we... To me, is a bigger picture. If, if, if other, uh, governments, if o- if other states, counties, cities see that they can just shut an industry down so easily, get a name for themselves, get their name out there, what's stopping everyone else from doing this?

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       Exactly. It's new power. So here's Venice Beach-

   16. JTJohn Terzian6:56

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       Look at this video. This is, uh, I mean, this is very mild in comparison to some of the videos that I've seen.

   18. JTJohn Terzian7:02

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       But, uh, there's one from downtown LA that literally sh- that's of Venice Beach, all the boardwalk, that whole area-

   20. JTJohn Terzian7:09

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:09

       ... is now just encampments.

   22. CSCraig Susser7:10

       Well, yeah, like Wilshire and Ven- Ve- uh, San Vicente?

   23. JTJohn Terzian7:13

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       Yeah. Yeah.

   25. CSCraig Susser7:13

       It's, it's pretty bad, right?

   26. JTJohn Terzian7:14

       Oh, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       It's terrible.

   28. JTJohn Terzian7:15

       Yeah, it's terrible.

   29. CSCraig Susser7:15

       Very bad. Yeah, I've seen it.

   30. JTJohn Terzian7:15

       Yeah, I've seen it.
7. 8:48 – 10:03

   Outdoor dining shutdowns and the courtroom: “no evidence” and the appeal

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:48

      And there's no evidence that shows that outdoor dining is contributing significantly to the COVID spread. There's no evidence.

   2. JTJohn Terzian8:55

      They actually had to admit that finally, in the, in court. The county has no evidence of a nexus between any sort of outbreak, uh, with outdoor dining.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:05

      And how do-

   4. CSCraig Susser9:05

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:05

      So how do they make this arbitrary distin- distinction between outdoor dining and going to Walmart, or like what they're calling-

   6. CSCraig Susser9:12

      They, th-

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:12

      ... essential?

   8. CSCraig Susser9:12

      They don't. Th- th- it doesn't-

   9. JTJohn Terzian9:13

      It doesn't make any sense.

   10. CSCraig Susser9:14

       Th- there isn't. So, so-

   11. JTJohn Terzian9:15

       There isn't.

   12. CSCraig Susser9:15

       ... the county health officials shut us down, right? For three weeks, uh, right around, what was it? Thanksgiving?

   13. JTJohn Terzian9:22

       Yes.

   14. CSCraig Susser9:23

       And, um, some friends of ours took them to court and said, uh, "You know, how can you just shut down an industry with no evidence?" And they said, "Oh, we have plenty of evidence. We have six studies and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And then they actually got to court, and they had nothing.

   15. JTJohn Terzian9:39

       Nothing.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:39

       Nothing.

   17. JTJohn Terzian9:39

       All the evidence-

   18. CSCraig Susser9:40

       Not-

   19. JTJohn Terzian9:40

       ... was from indoor dining.

   20. CSCraig Susser9:41

       N- not one piece of paper.

   21. JTJohn Terzian9:42

       And they had to admit it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       So when-

   23. CSCraig Susser9:44

       And now-

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       ... they admit it, then what happens?

   25. CSCraig Susser9:45

       No, but now they're appealing it. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:47

       Why?

   27. CSCraig Susser9:48

       Now they're appealing it. And by the way-

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:49

       But why?

   29. CSCraig Susser9:49

       ... they've hired an outside counsel, so they're-

   30. JTJohn Terzian9:52

       And you think these people hu- have our-
8. 10:03 – 13:17

   Bad policymaking mechanics: curfews, committees, and real-world expertise ignored

   1. CSCraig Susser10:03

      Okay. Here's the number one thing that boggles my mind. Y- you have a problem. We all agree there's an illness.

   2. JTJohn Terzian10:09

      Yes.

   3. CSCraig Susser10:09

      Okay? Uh, uh, the rates of hospitalizations are going up, infections are going up, but the rates of death are going down. Okay. So, we have an issue. Why not get together as a community and say, "You know what? We're gonna grab a couple of restaurant people. We're gonna grab some doctors in the field."

   4. JTJohn Terzian10:26

      Have a committee.

   5. CSCraig Susser10:26

      "And, and have people that have real world experience." Not PhDs, not theoretical people. People that have real experience in the industry. Grab them, grab a round table, and say, "Okay, we have this problem. How do we mitigate it and how do we move forward smartly?" I've never been asked. John's never been asked. No doctor that I know in the wide variety of people that I take care of has ever been asked their opinion by the county, state-

   6. JTJohn Terzian10:52

      Yep.

   7. CSCraig Susser10:52

      ... on any level.

   8. JTJohn Terzian10:54

      He's right. It's, it's... Th- that's the problem. And I reached out directly. I have, uh, Garcetti's email. I email this mayor. Puts me on with some, some random person from the office, then puts me on with the county. And I say, "Hey, get us together. L- like, why don't you actually talk to real restaurant owners?" This is when they were thinking about... This is when they were gonna do the curfew, right? There was a 10:00 PM curfew. And I said, "Wh- where does the, where does the 10:00 PM curfew come from?" "Oh, well, when people get inebriated, they get looser, and then they're super-spreaders at, at restaurants."

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:24

      (laughs)

   10. CSCraig Susser11:24

       And I'm like, "Okay. Why 10:00 PM?" He's like, "That's, that's the time when people really start, start getting inebriated." And I was like, "But you realize you could at least say, 'Hey, close up. Let people make sure they get out, get their check paid, and be out the door by midnight, 11:30,' whatever it might be, rather than everyone out the door by 10:00 PM." And he said, "Well, you can seat someone at 9:00 and then kick them out at 9:50." And I was like, "Wha- what... Are you, do you, do you have any understanding of the restaurant industry at all?" Not one. Had not contacted any, any restaurateur. They went to a 10:00 PM curfew. Three days later, shut it all down. They just said, "You know what? We're, we're just shutting everything down." By the way, they've never-

   11. JTJohn Terzian12:04

       For no reason.

   12. CSCraig Susser12:05

       ... they've never heard no from any of us. You wanna do-

   13. JTJohn Terzian12:07

       Yeah.

   14. CSCraig Susser12:08

       ... uh, six people or less? Okay.

   15. JTJohn Terzian12:10

       Yeah.

   16. CSCraig Susser12:10

       You want tables six feet apart? Okay. You wanna do, uh, an 11:00 curfew? Okay. A 10:00 curfew? Okay. We- we've said yes to everything they've wanted, and yet they still find a way-

   17. JTJohn Terzian12:22

       Yep.

   18. CSCraig Susser12:22

       ... to shut the industry down.

   19. JTJohn Terzian12:23

       Well, why?

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:24

       This is what I don't understand. Why? Who's making the decisions?

   21. JTJohn Terzian12:27

       I personally think... Again, I don't think Craig wants, wants to say this, but I personally think it is politicians trying to make a name for themselves. That is my-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       But how does it make a name for yourself-

   23. CSCraig Susser12:37

       But, but I think it's fear-based.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       ... by destroying businesses?

   25. CSCraig Susser12:38

       I honestly think it's fear.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       Wh- what?

   27. CSCraig Susser12:40

       I think it's fear.... that they're gonna-

   28. JTJohn Terzian12:42

       I-

   29. CSCraig Susser12:42

       ... that they're gonna be seen as not having done something-

   30. JTJohn Terzian12:45

       And people-
9. 13:17 – 33:41

   Lobbyists, big chains, and unequal treatment (Chipotle, film production, unions)

   1. JTJohn Terzian13:17

      restaurants, not franchise. We have no representation. We had no lobbyists. The rep- the- the representation for the restaurant community is driven by big fast food chains. Well, they have no incentive to help independent restaurants. You know, McDonald's and all these people, which God bless them, but they're thriving in COVID. So we just get bullied around essentially because there's no lobbyists. And so we're kind of like sitting ducks in this situation, and- and I kind of feel like we're somewhat trying to be a voice here for the independent restaurant world.

   2. CSCraig Susser13:49

      And it's not just LA. I mean, think- think about-

   3. JTJohn Terzian13:52

      It's much bigger.

   4. CSCraig Susser13:53

      ... I mean, New York and LA were- we- trendsetters, right? The country watched what happened in LA and New York and they followed, and now LA and New York have just completely dropped the ball and everybody else is kind of rising up.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:06

      Well, they're examples of government overreach. They're examples-

   6. JTJohn Terzian14:09

      100%.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:09

      ... of government overreach without any thought whatsoever to these independent businesses.

   8. JTJohn Terzian14:14

      It's a slippery slope.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:15

      Yeah.

   10. JTJohn Terzian14:15

       How- how much more is that gonna happen? That is a big fear.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:18

       Well, it's also a slippery slope 'cause what happens if it doesn't come back?

   12. JTJohn Terzian14:21

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       What happens if you drive down Melrose and those things stay boarded up? What happens if downtown LA-

   14. JTJohn Terzian14:25

       Yep.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:25

       ... stays filled with tents?

   16. JTJohn Terzian14:27

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:28

       What do you do?

   18. CSCraig Susser14:28

       Well, how many- how many restaurants are gonna be able to come back? I mean, like I said-

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       Right.

   20. CSCraig Susser14:31

       ... before, we're- we'll- we'll manage. We'll figure out a way. And- and- and (laughs) to John's point, like, Governor Newsom actually did help with something. I was trying to get, you know, a back patio done and there were a couple of health department rules and- and his office did step in and said, "That's ridiculous. You should allow that and make that happen." Then they changed a rule, um, that- that benefited not just my restaurant, but all restaurants.

   21. JTJohn Terzian14:53

       Big Newsom fan over here.

   22. CSCraig Susser14:54

       No, no. I'm just trying to, like-

   23. JTJohn Terzian14:56

       (laughs)

   24. CSCraig Susser14:56

       ... I'm trying to sp- I'm trying to-

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:57

       He's trying to balance it out.

   26. CSCraig Susser14:57

       ... split the difference.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       Yeah, I understand.

   28. CSCraig Susser14:59

       Like I want- I want it to be an honest conversation of, "I think your policies are wrong. I don't dislike you as a person." Right? That there's a big distinction.

   29. JTJohn Terzian15:09

       Sure.

   30. CSCraig Susser15:09

       Okay? So that's- that's all I'm trying to say. But I will say that, uh, you know, on the reservation list, um, somebody's named that rhymes with spaghetti will not get a reservation, okay? We'll do... I'll- I'll- I'll- I'll do that.
10. 33:41 – 41:44

    Hypocrisy and political credibility: French Laundry, officials dining out, ‘do as I say’

    1. JTJohn Terzian33:41

       I guarantee he k- the amount of, uh, the required amount of recall numbers to recall Newsom is gonna happen and nothing's gonna happen to him. That's how rigged I think everything is.

    2. JRJoe Rogan33:52

       Well, they did... They recalled Gray in 2... Was it 2003 when Schwarzenegger became the governor?

    3. JTJohn Terzian33:58

       Yes.

    4. JRJoe Rogan33:58

       I mean, it can happen. And if things keep deteriorating, it can happen. People have lost all faith in him after that French Laundry incident.

    5. JTJohn Terzian34:05

       The French Laundry thing sh- uh... I think people are laughing about it and it's, it's funny, but it's also... That's... He just got caught doing that.

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:13

       One time.

    7. JTJohn Terzian34:13

       How ma- yeah. How many other times?

    8. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       Yeah.

    9. JTJohn Terzian34:14

       We all know his winery is open. Miraculously, wineries are an exception to restaurants and-

    10. JRJoe Rogan34:19

        Well, in his county, in the area where his winery is, it's open.

    11. JTJohn Terzian34:22

        Sure. Sure.

    12. JRJoe Rogan34:23

        Yeah.

    13. JTJohn Terzian34:23

        How's, how's that fair?

    14. JRJoe Rogan34:24

        Yeah. Doesn't make any sense.

    15. JTJohn Terzian34:24

        You know? I mean, just... It makes no sense, but-

    16. CSCraig Susser34:26

        Well, they're gonna, they're gonna say that, that the transmission rates and the, the incidence of infections there are low.

    17. JRJoe Rogan34:32

        Yeah.

    18. CSCraig Susser34:32

        Right? So...

    19. JTJohn Terzian34:34

        Sure.

    20. JRJoe Rogan34:34

        But that's what he tried to say about the French Laundry, that it's a low impact area.

    21. JTJohn Terzian34:37

        He also said he was outside of French Laundry.

    22. JRJoe Rogan34:39

        But there's a fucking chandelier-

    23. JTJohn Terzian34:41

        Clearly. (laughs) Clearly there's a chandelier above his head.

    24. JRJoe Rogan34:43

        Outside means stars-

    25. JTJohn Terzian34:45

        (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan34:45

        ... above your head.

    27. JTJohn Terzian34:46

        (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan34:46

        That's what outside means.

    29. JTJohn Terzian34:47

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan34:47

        Outside doesn't mean a fucking chandelier.
11. 41:44 – 47:12

    Economic reality of restaurants: thin margins, delivery app fees, and ‘to-go’ myths

    1. CSCraig Susser41:44

       And then, and then they said, you know, the, the, they, the big thing John and I hear and, and, and yes, it does help a little bit, but at least we left you with, you know, uh, food to go and delivery.

    2. JTJohn Terzian41:54

       That does not help.

    3. JRJoe Rogan41:54

       Jesus Christ.

    4. JTJohn Terzian41:55

       That is complete BS.

    5. JRJoe Rogan41:56

       But that's, that's a lack of understanding about your business.

    6. JTJohn Terzian41:57

       God bless, Greg, for making money on it. You don't, you do not make money on delivery and to-go.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:01

       It's a lack of understanding of the business.

    8. JTJohn Terzian42:03

       Completely.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:04

       Yeah. Well, it's also a lack of understanding of the margins that a business operates on when it's a restaurant-

    10. JTJohn Terzian42:08

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:08

        ... even if you're full every night.

    12. JTJohn Terzian42:09

        Yeah.

    13. CSCraig Susser42:09

        Right. So, so if you, if you look at it-

    14. JTJohn Terzian42:11

        But, but the delivery services win.

    15. CSCraig Susser42:13

        The... Oh, Postmates and DoorDash are winning?

    16. JTJohn Terzian42:15

        Yeah, Door... (laughs) Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan42:15

        Definitely.

    18. CSCraig Susser42:15

        So, so if you look at it, you've got 30% food cost, you've got 30% labor cost.

    19. JTJohn Terzian42:20

        Yeah.

    20. CSCraig Susser42:20

        You've got 20% for rent, utilities, incidentals, insurance, all that other stuff. So at, at, at best with no mistakes, and everybody doing everything perfect, and the refrigerator not breaking, or the plumbing not breaking, or any of that stuff not happening, you might be at 15, 12% profit rate, right?

    21. JRJoe Rogan42:39

        Yeah.

    22. CSCraig Susser42:40

        But then-

    23. JTJohn Terzian42:40

        Maybe.

    24. CSCraig Susser42:41

        ... Postmates, DoorDash, they come in and they take their piece.

    25. JTJohn Terzian42:44

        18%.

    26. CSCraig Susser42:44

        So you're losing on a good night.

    27. JTJohn Terzian42:47

        Yeah. There's no shot at-

    28. CSCraig Susser42:48

        You're just-

    29. JTJohn Terzian42:48

        There's no shot at making money.

    30. CSCraig Susser42:49

        You're just kinda stemming the bleeding.
12. 47:12 – 1:10:14

    Mental health and social fabric: isolation, addiction, and loss of communal spaces

    1. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Yeah.

    2. CSCraig Susser47:12

       ... Mike passed away f- from COVID early, back in March and April. So, it's hit me personally. That's why I'm not a denier. That's why I'm not saying that there isn't an issue to be dealt with. But is there a-

    3. JTJohn Terzian47:24

       Why would anybody say that?

    4. CSCraig Susser47:24

       But is, but, well that's the whole point. So here, here's the point. If, if you make a case for opening up restaurants-

    5. JTJohn Terzian47:30

       Yeah. They're try-

    6. CSCraig Susser47:31

       ... you're an idiot, you're a denier-

    7. JTJohn Terzian47:32

       Right.

    8. CSCraig Susser47:32

       ... you don't understand the severity of the issue.

    9. JTJohn Terzian47:34

       Right.

    10. CSCraig Susser47:35

        Instead of saying, "Isn't there a gray area somewhere here? Isn't there a way of doing this smartly? Why aren't we investing the billions of dollars we're losing in tax money into testing efficiently, so that these venues can open?"

    11. JTJohn Terzian47:49

        Yeah, test everywhere.

    12. CSCraig Susser47:49

        But I think there ha- there has to be a consideration for the negative impact on these businesses and the, the health consequences of people being out of work, and the mental health consequences, the drug addiction-

    13. JRJoe Rogan48:00

        Yeah.

    14. CSCraig Susser48:00

        ... all the things that go along with it. You can't just look at the, the impact of the numbers. You have to look at the impact on the community.

    15. JTJohn Terzian48:07

        Right.

    16. CSCraig Susser48:07

        You have to look at the impact of the, what's the long term health of the culture? Like, you're destroying this i- it, an immense part of the city. Going out to dinner is a huge part of, of people's social life. They're like, "What do you wanna do? Let's go to a restaurant."

    17. JTJohn Terzian48:24

        100%.

    18. CSCraig Susser48:24

        People love it. It's probably one of the number one things that people like to do, get together with some friends-

    19. JTJohn Terzian48:29

        Yeah.

    20. CSCraig Susser48:30

        ... have some wine, have some food.

    21. JTJohn Terzian48:31

        Mm-hmm.

    22. CSCraig Susser48:31

        By the way, it was about the only thing you could do in, you know, was it July, August, September, October, was about the only-

    23. JTJohn Terzian48:38

        Oh, towards, yeah.

    24. CSCraig Susser48:38

        ... freedom you had is to get together with your friends and go out to dinners, about the only thing that was normal in life.

    25. JTJohn Terzian48:44

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan48:44

        Yeah.

    27. CSCraig Susser48:44

        I mean, you've got to miss all your comedy friends living down here in Austin. You've got to miss all your community back in LA.

    28. JRJoe Rogan48:49

        A lot of them are moving here.

    29. JTJohn Terzian48:50

        They're all coming.

    30. JRJoe Rogan48:51

        Yeah. (laughs) They're all coming.

Episode duration: 1:54:27