Joe Rogan Experience #1589 - Dr. Mark Gordon & Andrew Marr

1. 0:00 – 3:04

   Mustache-and-beard cold open, plus moving-to-Texas chatter

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Gentlemen, good to see you.

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:15

      Hey. How are you?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Don't... No mention of your mustache.

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:17

      No.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      I'm not even gonna bring it up.

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:18

      Absolutely nothing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs)

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:20

      Mark's mustache looks good-

   10. AMAndrew Marr0:21

       Yeah.

   11. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:21

       ... and I'm happy to be here, Joe.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       Well-

   13. AMAndrew Marr0:23

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       ... I like the fact that you trimmed it down. You had a, the crazy, bushy, the full-

   15. AMAndrew Marr0:27

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       ... fucking spec op beard.

   17. AMAndrew Marr0:29

       Grizzly Adams. Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Yeah.

   19. AMAndrew Marr0:30

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       And, and you went with the porn stache. Yes.

   21. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:34

       That's it?

   22. AMAndrew Marr0:35

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Yes.

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:35

       Nothing more?

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Well, Tom Selleck.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:37

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Uh-

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:37

       Okay.

   29. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       ... who else?

   30. AMAndrew Marr0:38

       It's a very good Tom Selleck. Thank you.
2. 3:04 – 3:39

   Why leave California: taxes, restrictions, and governance frustrations

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:04

      Yeah, welcome. Yeah, and, uh, another, another mover. You're, you're a mover here as well.

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:09

      Uh, yep. Uh, spent, uh, last month with his parents, uh, looking for a house and I think we've, uh, found a nice house to move into in Spring, Texas.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      What pushed you over the edge?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:20

      Um, all the bullshit going on in California, uh, the laws, the restrictions, the tax is 13.3%, uh, the governor, the mayor, uh, the congressmen, the senators. Is that enough?

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:34

      Yeah, that's enough.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:34

      Okay, good.

   7. AMAndrew Marr3:35

      I second all that. That's what moved us over here.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      But as, as a doctor-

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:38

      Right.

3. 3:39 – 8:29

   Lockdowns and enforcement: unintended consequences and hypocrisy

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:39

      ... when you look at the lockdowns, like, this is, this is where it gets really controversial, right? 'Cause people are saying-

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:45

      Correct.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      ... that the whole reason for doing this is to protect people because the emergency rooms are overcrowded and, uh, you don't think that's a suitable-

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:53

      No, I, I think, uh, restrictions of our rights is, uh, is a key issue there. I, you know, looking, contrasting what has been going on in Texas outside of Austin, but in Houston and other places, they're reasonable. Abbott has been very reasonable about, uh, certain factors that I love. We're a law-abiding state. Okay? We believe in individual rights. California is the opposite.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:16

      Yeah.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:17

      How can you live pleasantly, uh, regardless of what occupation you're in? How can you live there understanding that every movement that you're doing is under surveillance? Cops are coming to your house during Thanksgiving or, you know-

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:29

      Is that happening though? I didn't... I know, I know-

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:31

      No, they-

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:31

      Something happened in Canada. It, it was a really disturbing thing. Did you see about this?

   10. AMAndrew Marr4:34

       Yeah, I saw it.

   11. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:34

       I did see in Canada.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:35

       They came in, like, f- full fucking Gestapo mode.

   13. AMAndrew Marr4:39

       And just a family?

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Yeah.

   15. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:40

       Yeah, one fam-

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Just, they had five people in the house or something like that?

   17. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:42

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:42

       And people ratted them out. Like... It's just, as soon as you make something a law and then you send cops out to enforce that and the cops think they're justified and you get a few dumb cops and then they do something like this, it just lets everybody know, like, "Oh, this is why it's dangerous to have too many restrictions."

   19. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:59

       Correct.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:59

       Because then you have people that have to enforce those restrictions.

   21. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:02

       Right. And they're not doing their job. I mean, the, the sheriff and the head of police in, in California or in Los Angeles came out and said they wouldn't upheld, uphold the, uh, restrictions that Newsom was putting in, I think in San Francisco also-

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       Yeah.

   23. AMAndrew Marr5:14

       Orange County, yeah.

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:14

       ... because it would take them away from... Orange County. It would take them away from their ability to do the real work protecting the citizens, not arresting them.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       Yeah, it's-

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:23

       You know, what happened in Staten Island is just mind-boggling with that the restaurateur was arrested and given a $10,000 a day fine for having his restaurant open. He was social distancing. He had the, uh, shields and protection. Everyone was wearing a mask. But because they had locked down Staten Island so tightly, you know, they're devastating all the businesses there, but he went up against it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:48

       It just seems to me that the amount of money...... that it would have cost to open up new ICU rooms and, and figure out a way to staff them would have been far less than the amount of money that it's costing all these people to lose their businesses, all these people to stop working.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:06

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:07

       It just seems rational that, like, the amount of money. You could have figured out a way to tax people. Like say, "Hey, we're gonna let everybody open up, but we, we need a temporary tax on sales of whatever that'll just go to help this." And people probably would have said okay. We'll ... I- it'll just keep ... And give people the opportunity. Like, you, you have your options. Y- you have your rights. You can choose to go to work, choose to go to these restaurants, choose to go to these bars, and we'll figure out some way to open up more-

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:36

       W- wasn't New York City doing something like that?
4. 8:29 – 9:41

   Testing, case spikes, and what the numbers really mean (PCR cycles, accuracy)

   1. AMAndrew Marr8:29

      Are they using the PCR test to ...

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon8:31

      Uh-

   3. AMAndrew Marr8:32

      To validate that?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon8:33

      Uh-

   5. AMAndrew Marr8:33

      That's a huge question.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon8:34

      They're using the PCR test and they're using the rapid one. But, you know, they're not as ... They're not accurate. They're not accurate. They're just something we have now to utilize and then put a lot of credibility on it. Um, the difference between the different PCR testing is that-

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:51

      So there's a spike around Christmastime, which is supposedly due to what? Is ... Is the idea that it's due to gatherings? Is it ... So is ... 'Cause they were trying to say that it was, uh, related to Thanksgiving. So between October, November, end of November-

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:08

      Yeah, 30 days.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:08

      D- but if you look at it, it seems like two weeks after the end of November, that would make sense, right? That would be right around ... Show me, like ... Yeah, well. That's, that's longer than two weeks, right? Because it seems like it kicked in, the spikes kicked in right around, uh ... Well, what is the big, first big spike right there?

   10. NANarrator9:27

       Uh, 16.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       What is that? The 16?

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:29

       16.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:29

       Well, that's kind of two weeks. That's two weeks-ish.

   14. AMAndrew Marr9:32

       I would want to know what cycles they're testing on and if there's any changes of the PCR test.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:36

       I believe this is hospitalizations though, right? Or is this new cases?

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:39

       It's new cases.

5. 9:41 – 13:06

   Nutrition and prevention: vitamin D finally acknowledged, plus zinc ‘ionophores’

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:41

      Yeah. It's, uh ... Well, it's not good. But, you know, um, someone pointed out that the CDC website has finally, uh, got information on it, about vitamin D and, and some other things.

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:53

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:53

      They just put it on there.

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:54

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:54

      Just in December. Which is like, Jesus guys, nine months in to a fucking pandemic-

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon10:00

      That's right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:00

      ... and you just started putting things on about vitamins and the importance of nutrition?

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon10:03

      Right. And that's one of the issues that they're really missing, is nutritional. I think I was sharing with you earlier about in India, which has four times the amount of population as the United States, they've only recorded 167 ... I have a s- a slide up there. Uh, 167,000 people and it's because in their nutrition, they have things that carry the protective zinc into the cell, which are called ionophores, which is ... Hydroxychloroquine is one of them. Quercetin, EGCG, which is the green extract from, uh, green tea extract. Um, quercetin, as I said, and bismuth. We need to carry, uh, have a carrier to bring charged particles into our cells, like zinc, magnesium and so forth. So zinc, uh, Dr Saluth out of, um, Johns Hopkins did a beautiful dissertation where he showed that when zinc is inside the cell and you get the, uh, COVID, um, genome being injected, there's a protein which is, um, replicase. Well, zinc inhibits the replicase's ability to take over our cell's mechanism for generating more viral genome particles. So zinc is what stops it. I mean, for the past, uh, 25 years in our practice, we use zinc as a means of slowing down the conversion of testosterone to estradiol. Well, it turns out that that has protected our patient population. With our population being what it is, we've only had one person get COVID out of the entire group, and that's because they've all been on quercetin, which is a means of increasing energy production. And I'll tell you honestly, I didn't know that it was an ionophore until just a year ago.... but it carried the zinc that they were taking, and the reason they were taking quercetin is because it upregulates ATP, the energy molecule of the body.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:47

      Didn't you say, also say that quercetin has some sort of a nootropic effect as well?

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon11:51

       Yeah. In the brain, it drops inflammation. You know, the way that, uh, we lose our cognitive ability is by inflammation and that's the whole premise of what, you know, Andrew and I are doing relative to treating our veterans as well as civilians, is quercetin, as well as, uh, zinc itself has the ability to drop inflammation in the brain. You drop inflammation and you get improvement in cognitive ability. The, the, the communication opens up.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       So, what is it in the food in India? What specific part of their diet?

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:20

       Turmeric.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:21

       Turmeric?

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:21

       Curcumin.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       Ah.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:22

       It's an incredible inophore, and that's the reason why they're protected. And where's their zinc coming from if they're not taking capsules of zinc? Well, legumes, red meat, which they don't eat, seafood, which they eat a lot of, and also nuts. They're very high in natural zinc.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       So, for them, they're getting it from the legumes and from the seafood?

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:42

       Correct. And then-

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:42

       Interesting.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:43

       ... they're getting the turmeric or the curcumin.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       Does any- does no one in India eat meat?

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:47

       Uh, no-

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Red meat?

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:48

       ... they, they-

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:49

       Or is it rare?

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:49

       No, they eat ... The orthodox, uh, Hindu, uh, don't eat it. And, um, but they drink green tea, which is another inophore that brings it in. Maybe there's, uh, in certain, uh, nutrients, there's bismuth, so that helps.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       Mm-hmm.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:03

       Or Pepto-Bismol if they got upset stomach.

6. 13:06 – 19:06

   Vitamin D, cholesterol, calcium, and vitamin K: atherosclerosis as inflammation/repair

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:06

      And doesn't, um, vitamin K, uh, also ... The vi- was it vitamin K that helps the absorption of vitamin D3? Is that what it is?

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:13

      Uh, th- the use of vitamin K, the story behind it is if you take vitamin D, the main function that we've thought about vitamin D, though right now it's this unbelievable, um, hormone. As you know, vitamin D is not really a, a vitamin, it's a hormone that comes off of cholesterol. So, if we do anything to diminish our cholesterol levels in our body, we lose not only, uh, all of the hormones that are generated off of cholesterol, but we lose vitamin D and we-

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:40

      Does that happen when people take statins?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:42

      Correct. Correct.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:43

      Mm-hmm. 'Cause there is a, there's a health repercussion for taking statins for some-

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:47

      Correct.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:47

      ... people, right?

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:48

      And vitamin D counters it. I've got an article up there, um, which talks about it. But vitamin D draws from the gut, calcium from your nutrition, calcium and phosphate. So, calcium, they're afraid that too much calcium will cause atherosclerosis because hardening of the arteries is not cholesterol. Hardening of the arteries is calcium deposited on the walls of the arteries to fix damage to the, to the walls. So, vitamin K, K2, K7 are to remove the calcium from the wall.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:20

      So, the calcium is on the walls to fix damage to the walls-

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:23

       Correct.

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:23

       ... but it's caused by ...

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:25

       Uh, inflammation. Our nutrition can cause inflammation. Cigarette smoking, diabetes, there's a whole group of things that lead to what's called intima inflammation. Intima is the lining of the arteries, and they become inflamed and sticky. So, our body has, by what they call secondary intent, a means of fixing things. The first thing they throw in there is cholesterol. Why cholesterol? Because cholesterol is what is- makes up the membrane of all our cells. So, the cell is trying to get repaired, and then what happens is the cholesterol becomes this, a bystandard or an innocent, uh, participant in this process. Cholesterol can't fix it, so calcium comes in and gets laminated down on the artery walls, and that's what causes atherosclerosis.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       It's so funny because in today's world, the word cholesterol is like a red flag-

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:10

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       ... for something bad in your diet.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:12

       Correct.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       But it's also something the body makes on its own.

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:15

       Correct.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:16

       So, your body makes cholesterol, and then you have dietary cholesterol.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:19

       15%.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       And, and there's some cholesterol that you can get from plant-based foods, right?

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:23

       Correct.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:23

       So, if someone is only eating vegetables, what's the best source of cholesterol for them when it t-

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:28

       I'm gonna-

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       ... when it comes to, uh, dietary cholesterol?

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:31

       That would be my daughter, Alison, to answer that question 'cause I turn to her.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       Oh.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:35

       But yeah, there's cholesterols, um-

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:37

       Get her on the phone.

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon15:38

       ... state of ... She's here.
7. 19:06 – 29:01

   Diet, insulin, and inflammation: carnivore/keto experiences and mood effects

   1. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:06

      an inflammatory diet, it's gonna lead to changes in the brain and brain function. But back to your question relative to, to nutrition, it's all the basic food groups we drop in the carbohydrates. I know you enjoy the, um, you know, carnivore diet with the high protein, uh, intake.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:23

      I'm on that now.

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:24

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:24

      Uh, it's, it's crazy how quickly it changes the way your body works.

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:28

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:29

      Like, I'm five days in now. Is today the fifth?

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:31

      Yeah.

   8. AMAndrew Marr19:31

      Five days.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:32

      So, five days in, um, energy level's through the roof.

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:35

       Yep.

   11. JRJoe Rogan19:36

       Like, that's what happens every time. And, uh, I slim up, like, I, I, I'll have already lost like four and a half, five pounds.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:42

       Yeah, it's because you're not kicking in insulin. Uh, when you're eating meals that have carbohydrates, insulin is called the hormone of storage. So, what happens is whatever you eat, a certain percentage of that is stored.

   13. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       For me, though, it's, it's 100% pasta.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon19:57

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       It's, it's pasta and bread. When I cut that out, I feel great.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:00

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:01

       But I'm just such a slob. I just... that's when I wanna eat it. When I eat it, I get fat, like my stomach bloats up-

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:07

       Bloats. Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:07

       ... my face gets fat, and I just get tired. But I still eat it 'cause I'm a moron.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:11

       Yeah.

   21. AMAndrew Marr20:12

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:12

       (laughs)

   23. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:13

       We're human.

   24. AMAndrew Marr20:13

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:14

       Yeah.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:14

       You get the spike of, uh, insulin, which drops your level of... sorry if I blocked you.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       It's okay. No worries.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:20

       I'll use this arm. You know, the spike in insulin-

   29. AMAndrew Marr20:22

       (laughs)

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:22

       ... causes, uh, drop in, um, in sugar, in glucose, and the brain's very sensitive to loss of, uh, glucose. And it could cause, uh, fatigue, cognitive and, uh, cognitive impairment. It can actually cause some tremors and some dryness of the mouth.
8. 29:01 – 51:35

   The ‘immune stack’ blueprint: doses, DHEA/pregnenolone, and inflammation control

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:01

      So, if you're gonna put someone on sort of a preventative protocol for-

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon29:05

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:05

      ... for COVID, you would recommend quercetin. And you can get it, we just, I just bought some on-

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon29:10

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:10

      ... Amazon after you brought it up-

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon29:11

      It was.

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:11

      ... 'cause I wasn't taking quercetin.

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon29:12

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:13

      Um, quercetin at what dose?

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon29:16

       Well, what we started off just for, you know, for daily use, because the benefit of quercetin is it drops the inflammatory cytokines. Um, it increases mitochondria, so you produce more cells, so you produce more energy, ATP. That was what we were using it for and it was 500 milligrams twice a day. And zinc was 15 to 30 milligrams twice a day. And in the past 20 years, I've been sick 13 days. And what I started seeing in our population, because we do a monthly questionnaire to our patient population, and we have two questions about allergies and about, uh, infections or colds. And we started seeing years ago that the number of colds people were having were dropping and their allergies were improving. And honestly, I didn't understand why until COVID and I started looking at how the immune system is, uh, influenced by things like, uh, zinc-... and certain of, uh, testosterone. Testosterone stimulates the, um, s- CD4, CD8 cells, which are the immune cells that help to defend us against infections, viral, bacterial, innate immunity, as well as it increases, uh, something called interleukin-10, which is an anti-inflammatory product, and it drops the inflammatory, um, interleukins. These are the cytokines or... produced by our immune system to help fight off infections by sending out an attack against them, which is a biochemical attack, other than just antibodies. So-

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       So, you got zinc, 15 to 30 milligrams twice a day.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon30:50

       Correct.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:50

       Quercetin.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon30:51

       500 milligrams twice a day. That's preventive. Treatment... and we've had to treat patients outside of our practice... is 1,000 milligrams twice a day with 30 milligrams... uh, 1,000 milligrams twice a day of quercetin and 30 milligrams twice a day of zinc.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       And this is for someone that has COVID?

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:07

       That's someone who's active.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:09

       And what is, what's going on with zinc and quercetin and, and COVID? Like how-

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:14

       Oh, how does it interact?

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       Yeah.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:15

       Well, the virus that gets into our cells, it gets into our cells through something called an ACE2 receptor, and that's what the, um, vaccine is fighting against. They call it the spike protein. So, on the outer membrane of the virus are these spikes. So, it uses our own system to transport the virus into the cell. Once it's in the cell, the virus releases something called replicase. Replicase is a DNA reverse transcriptase protein that takes over our manufacturing at the ribosome to make more viral genome. Well, it turns out that the, uh, replicase has an area on it that if zinc attaches to it, shuts it off. So, quercetin is called an ionophore. It carries charged particles into the cell. Otherwise, zinc sits outside the cell.

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:09

       So, zinc without a sinophore? That, uh, is that how you say it?

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:12

       Ionophore.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Ionophore?

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:13

       Io- yeah, ionophore.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       Zinc without an ionophore, it just, it doesn't work?

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:16

       Correct.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       Interesting.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:18

       It-

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:18

       So, a lot of these people that are just taking zinc on its own-

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:21

       It does get some effect, but-
9. 51:35 – 54:08

   From COVID to TBI: introducing Warrior Angel Foundation and ‘Quiet Explosions’

   1. JRJoe Rogan51:35

      So, um, we got our stack for our immune system. So let's, let's talk about your project. Let's talk about, uh, the Warrior Angel Foundation, and let's talk about this new documentary that's out now.

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon51:47

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan51:47

      Um, uh, Quiet Explosions. It's ... This is, uh ...

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon51:50

      Well, that's Andrew.

   5. JRJoe Rogan51:52

      Well, this is how, you know, I met Andrew. You brought him in here.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon51:56

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan51:56

      And we got a chance to discuss, uh, this incredible work that you guys are doing with veterans and, and really giving people hope that have been suffering-

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:04

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan52:04

      ... from TBIs.

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:06

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan52:06

       These traumatic brain injuries and, and with the ... You know, when there's no real clear treatment, you know, you guys have really found a, a great path.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:14

       Yeah. Well, uh, walk up until-

   13. JRJoe Rogan52:17

       Okay.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:17

       ... his brilliance and re- and with his brother, Adam, writing this book, uh, Tales from the Blast Factory. Uh, when, when Andrew, you know, first arrived at the doorstep, uh, you could tell that he was, uh, I use the term broken. And within a very short period of time, he was off his medication and he was back functioning. In fact, three months after we started his protocol, um, we were in San Diego. I was doing the f- in- the launch of my new book, TBI, uh, book. And he's walking down the hall coming to the class and totally different. His stride, he was proud. He was full of energy.

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:53

       And we've talked about this recovery in the last podcast. And people-

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:56

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:56

       ... if you wanna go to Spotify, you can get that. What episode is that, Jamie?

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:00

       700.

   19. Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan53:00

       700?

   21. AMAndrew Marr53:01

       700.

   22. JRJoe Rogan53:01

       Yeah.

   23. AMAndrew Marr53:01

       I think the, the most recent one was 1056.

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:03

       Okay. Yeah. We jumped through-

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:04

       So it did ... It's good to remember it. Look at that.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:06

       Yeah.

   27. AMAndrew Marr53:06

       Boom.

   28. JRJoe Rogan53:06

       Good memory. Damn. Damn, son.

   29. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:07

       Right. So anyway, uh, long story short, you know, he and his brother write this book, Tales from the Blast Factory, and the editor, um, hands it to a girlfriend of hers, Jerry Schirer, this incredible producer, director, writer, screenwriter, and develops this project, which is called Quiet Explosions.

   30. JRJoe Rogan53:27

       Hmm.
10. 54:08 – 1:19:14

    Hormone restoration in TBI and veterans: testosterone, Clomid, HCG, and protocol evolution

    1. JRJoe Rogan54:08

       ... that, uh, s- soldiers experience. With some of them, do you not prescribe, uh, an injectable testosterone, or do you do something like Clomid or something?

    2. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:19

       Right. Yeah, great question. Um, what was it? In 2014, we did our three-year veteran study, and that was because the military had put a squash on dispensing testosterone to veterans. So I had been-

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:34

       Why did they do that?

    4. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:35

       Um, because they thought it was creating, um, agitation, aggression, too much aggression, and they didn't want to have that.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:41

       It's hilarious that the military would want to slow down aggression.

    6. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:44

       (laughs) Isn't that true? Wasn't that the reason why they-

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:46

       Smart.

    8. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:46

       ... put a squash on it?

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:47

       (laughs)

    10. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:47

        Yeah (laughs) right. An aggressive-

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:50

        They should slow the bullets down too.

    12. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:51

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:51

        ... let's dull those knives, kids.

    14. MGDr. Mark Gordon54:53

        Yeah. So, um, we started looking at things that I'd used in the past. Mostly guys would come to me, uh, for rekindling their, um, hormone production because they were on incredible amount of steroidal hormones that shut their system down, so they came to me to get their system back up and running.

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:10

        What steroidal hormones would shut your system down?

    16. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:12

        Uh, 1,000 milligrams of testosterone with 500 milligrams of nandrolone decanoate with, uh-

    17. JRJoe Rogan55:20

        Oh, steroids.

    18. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:21

        Steroids.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:22

        Like bodybuilding steroids.

    20. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:23

        Bodybuilding steroids.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:23

        Oh, I thought you were talking about, like, cortisone and-

    22. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:25

        No, no, no. This is bodybuilding steroids.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:28

        Okay.

    24. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:28

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:28

        So these are guys that just wreck their system.

    26. MGDr. Mark Gordon55:30

        They wreck their system and, uh, someone that I had worked with, um, in my inception of, uh, treating them, which I was totally against, uh, use of anabolic steroids because if you f- a- ate well, exercised, and, you know, you were- should be able to make your own hormones, and I learned different. Certain people that just didn't. So, um, we started using beta HCG, using things like, uh, Clomid to try and turn their system back on. So I was exposed to it, and then 2014, we started a project trying to find the lowest possible dose of clomiphene citrate that would stimulate their own production of luteinizing hormone to stimulate their testicular functioning of testosterone. And we found a pattern that seemed to work best, and the beauty of it was it wasn't a daily tablet. If you look at the studies in women who were on daily tablets, they had, you know, complaints of mood swings and bloating and, um, some ocular kind of problems. But that was daily dosing of between 50 to 200 milligrams of Clomid. We used 25, 50 milligrams every 72 hours. That's what we were able to define that that was the dosing that worked very well to get optimal levels of testosterone. So, the-

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:48

        Why, why does it need to be spaced out for 72 hours is-

    28. MGDr. Mark Gordon56:51

        Uh, because the half-life of clomiphene is 98 days, and the actual stimulation of the testicles is, like, 32 days. So even though you didn't take the pill for 72 hours, you still had the, uh, momentum of producing-

    29. AMAndrew Marr57:07

        You said days. You meant hours, 92 hours?

    30. MGDr. Mark Gordon57:10

        Uh, no. 92 days.

Episode duration: 2:49:49