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Joe Rogan Experience #1589 - Dr. Mark Gordon & Andrew Marr

Dr. Mark Gordon is an expert in the field of neuroregenerative medicine and the treatment of Traumatic Brain Injuries. SFC Andrew Marr is a Green Beret, co-founder of the Warrior Angels Foundation, and author of "Tales from the Blast Factory". He is also one of the subjects in the new documentary "Quiet Explosions" available now. Video credit: "Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown" by MedCram - Medical Lectures Explained CLEARLY - https://youtu.be/U7F1cnWup9M

Joe RoganhostDr. Mark GordonguestAndrew Marrguest
Jun 27, 20242h 49mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    2. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Gentlemen, good to see you.

    3. MG

      Hey. How are you?

    4. JR

      Don't... No mention of your mustache.

    5. MG

      No.

    6. JR

      I'm not even gonna bring it up.

    7. MG

      Absolutely nothing.

    8. JR

      (laughs)

    9. MG

      Mark's mustache looks good-

    10. AM

      Yeah.

    11. MG

      ... and I'm happy to be here, Joe.

    12. JR

      Well-

    13. AM

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      ... I like the fact that you trimmed it down. You had a, the crazy, bushy, the full-

    15. AM

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      ... fucking spec op beard.

    17. AM

      Grizzly Adams. Yeah.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. AM

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      And, and you went with the porn stache. Yes.

    21. MG

      That's it?

    22. AM

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      Yes.

    24. MG

      Nothing more?

    25. JR

      Well, Tom Selleck.

    26. MG

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      Uh-

    28. MG

      Okay.

    29. JR

      ... who else?

    30. AM

      It's a very good Tom Selleck. Thank you.

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    It's so funny because…

    1. MG

      so calcium comes in and gets laminated down on the artery walls, and that's what causes atherosclerosis.

    2. JR

      It's so funny because in today's world, the word cholesterol is like a red flag-

    3. MG

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      ... for something bad in your diet.

    5. MG

      Correct.

    6. JR

      But it's also something the body makes on its own.

    7. MG

      Correct.

    8. JR

      So, your body makes cholesterol, and then you have dietary cholesterol.

    9. MG

      15%.

    10. JR

      And, and there's some cholesterol that you can get from plant-based foods, right?

    11. MG

      Correct.

    12. JR

      So, if someone is only eating vegetables, what's the best source of cholesterol for them when it t-

    13. MG

      I'm gonna-

    14. JR

      ... when it comes to, uh, dietary cholesterol?

    15. MG

      That would be my daughter, Alison, to answer that question 'cause I turn to her.

    16. JR

      Oh.

    17. MG

      But yeah, there's cholesterols, um-

    18. JR

      Get her on the phone.

    19. MG

      ... state of ... She's here.

    20. JR

      I know.

    21. MG

      Yeah. (laughs)

    22. JR

      She's at another microphone, though. Unfortunately, we have three mics in this room right now. Um-

    23. MG

      Uh, but anyway, she would be the one that, uh, she's the one that does the, uh, nutrition and support for our patients and, uh, gut/brain health.

    24. JR

      And so, the, what, what I'm getting at is like, it's not just that you take a vitamin, like D3-

    25. MG

      Right.

    26. JR

      ... or zinc. You really wanna take a whole-

    27. MG

      Correct.

    28. JR

      ... le- you wanna, like a ecosystem.

    29. MG

      Correct.

    30. JR

      You want it all to work together.

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    So, you got zinc,…

    1. MG

      their allergies were improving. And honestly, I didn't understand why until COVID and I started looking at how the immune system is, uh, influenced by things like, uh, zinc-... and certain of, uh, testosterone. Testosterone stimulates the, um, s- CD4, CD8 cells, which are the immune cells that help to defend us against infections, viral, bacterial, innate immunity, as well as it increases, uh, something called interleukin-10, which is an anti-inflammatory product, and it drops the inflammatory, um, interleukins. These are the cytokines or... produced by our immune system to help fight off infections by sending out an attack against them, which is a biochemical attack, other than just antibodies. So-

    2. JR

      So, you got zinc, 15 to 30 milligrams twice a day.

    3. MG

      Correct.

    4. JR

      Quercetin.

    5. MG

      500 milligrams twice a day. That's preventive. Treatment... and we've had to treat patients outside of our practice... is 1,000 milligrams twice a day with 30 milligrams... uh, 1,000 milligrams twice a day of quercetin and 30 milligrams twice a day of zinc.

    6. JR

      And this is for someone that has COVID?

    7. MG

      That's someone who's active.

    8. JR

      And what is, what's going on with zinc and quercetin and, and COVID? Like how-

    9. MG

      Oh, how does it interact?

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. MG

      Well, the virus that gets into our cells, it gets into our cells through something called an ACE2 receptor, and that's what the, um, vaccine is fighting against. They call it the spike protein. So, on the outer membrane of the virus are these spikes. So, it uses our own system to transport the virus into the cell. Once it's in the cell, the virus releases something called replicase. Replicase is a DNA reverse transcriptase protein that takes over our manufacturing at the ribosome to make more viral genome. Well, it turns out that the, uh, replicase has an area on it that if zinc attaches to it, shuts it off. So, quercetin is called an ionophore. It carries charged particles into the cell. Otherwise, zinc sits outside the cell.

    12. JR

      So, zinc without a sinophore? That, uh, is that how you say it?

    13. MG

      Ionophore.

    14. JR

      Ionophore?

    15. MG

      Io- yeah, ionophore.

    16. JR

      Zinc without an ionophore, it just, it doesn't work?

    17. MG

      Correct.

    18. JR

      Interesting.

    19. MG

      It-

    20. JR

      So, a lot of these people that are just taking zinc on its own-

    21. MG

      It does get some effect, but-

    22. AM

      Doesn't get in the cell, right? It doesn't go into the cell.

    23. MG

      Uh, yeah. Generally speaking, it won't get into the cell at a high rate. It will, over time, get in because we have things that we take in, like, uh, bismuth in our system from fruits and vegetables. We have, uh, EGCG from green tea, if people are drinking green tea. Um, we've got, uh, curcumin from food. That's why in India, they don't get it. So, they're getting some form of an ionophore, but if you wanna really jam the zinc into the cells, um, use a quercetin or turmeric or-

    24. JR

      And then move on to D3. Um, I'm taking 5,000 IUs a day. What do you, what do you recommend?

    25. MG

      I, I personally take a little bit more than that.

    26. JR

      How much do you take?

    27. MG

      50,000.

    28. JR

      Jesus Christ.

    29. MG

      ... on Mondays, and 10,000 or 20,000 on every other day.

    30. JR

      That's a lot.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Proscar? …

    1. MG

      traditionally, um, the approach for treating the side effects has been just improving DHT because the Propecia, um, what's the other name? Uh, it's all finasteride.

    2. JR

      Proscar?

    3. MG

      Yeah, Proscar. It's... Finasteride is the chemical. Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT, and as I just said, DHT is four times more anabolic than testosterone.

    4. JR

      Do people take DHT as a supplement?

    5. MG

      You, you take testosterone or you take, uh, DHEA, which will generate testosterone to generate DHT.

    6. JR

      Oh, okay.

    7. MG

      Okay? So DHT in our brain is what gives us our energy, our libido, our activity level, our cognition to some degree. And then another pathway, which has totally been ignored, is the one where the 5-alpha-reductase, which is the enzyme that the, uh, Propecia or finasteride kills, um, is important for generating something called allopregnanolone from pregnenolone. Allopregnanolone just came out as a drug last year, or excuse me, two years ago, for $34,000 a year called, um, brexanolone, is the, uh, chemical name for it. And brexanolone is being used for anti-depression, anti-anxiety, and postpartum depression, which tells us how important pregnenolone is to become progesterone, to become this thing called allopregnanolone in giving you mental stability.

    8. JR

      Hmm.

    9. MG

      So what happens is inflammation that we see in our head trauma cases, it disrupts that pregnenolone, which is also called the mother of all hormones because it gives rise to all our hormones.

    10. JR

      So you should supplement with that as well?

    11. MG

      Supplement with pregnenolone.

    12. JR

      How much s- uh, pregnenolone?

    13. MG

      Uh, we use 100 milligrams after, uh, dinner now-

    14. JR

      100 milligrams?

    15. MG

      ... because it's fat-soluble. It's fat-sol-

    16. JR

      So on- once a day, 100 milligrams?

    17. MG

      Correct.

    18. JR

      And how much DHEA?

    19. MG

      Uh, DHEA, we start at 25, and we take DHEA at nighttime, not in the morning like a lot are saying. The reason for taking it at night, it has a side effect of upregulating growth hormone production bri- by up to 15%. So if you take it based upon the biological clock in the body, you can get benefits in other areas, not just DHEA. But DHEA also helps stabilize glucose and insulin interaction, stimulates the immune system, wound healing, and drops inflammation. That's below the, uh, the neck. Above the neck, it increases growth hormone. You get a cold, you feel smarter or less smart?

    20. JR

      (smacks lips) Dumb.

    21. MG

      Yeah. And that's because interleukin-6, which is an inflammatory cytokine that's produced, DHEA helps to keep it quiet.

    22. JR

      Hmm. Okay.

    23. MG

      Slow it down.

    24. JR

      So the immune system response pandemic stack...

    25. MG

      Correct.

    26. JR

      We've got it, we've got it dialed in now. This is what it is. So you need pregnenolone. You want some DHEA. You want some quercetin. You want some zinc and vitamin D3.

    27. MG

      That's it, those five.

    28. JR

      And put those all together and get your C from fruits, you think?

    29. MG

      Uh, y- naturally if you can.

    30. JR

      And what... Like, if you're sick though, should you up your C? Would that help?

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

    Yeah. …

    1. JR

      significant other grows-

    2. MG

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... one of them pornstachers?

    4. MG

      Yeah. That's right.

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. MG

      It's because they too will have the, uh, secondary effects of testosterone. Our skin has the converting enzyme that converts it to dihydrotestosterone, and that's the reason why, uh, women who used to be given topical testosterone to put on their wrist would accidentally shmoo- sh- shmear it, shmear it, yeah-

    7. AM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MG

      ... onto their arms and they'd get, um, darkening of their skin. So if they're light-skinned, light lanugo hair, it would get dark and they'd get a patch. Also, DHT can cause them to grow hair behind their knuckles on their hands.

    9. JR

      Attractive.

    10. MG

      Absolutely. Just take the razor.

    11. JR

      A lot of guys like that.

    12. MG

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      A lot of guy, lady, and guy with hairy knuckles.

    14. MG

      That's called hair suit, right?

    15. JR

      Yeah. Not good.

    16. MG

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Um, okay. So when you started developing this protocol for, for, uh, treating soldiers and, uh, d- different people with TBIs-

    18. MG

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      ... was there some adjusting? Did you have to kind of figure it out as you went along? I mean, how many studies did you have to read to try to put together this-

    20. MG

      Uh, yeah. I have over 8,000, uh, studies in my collection on Mendeley where I keep all the articles. And, you know, I go through...... 10, 15 articles a week right now. And every Sunday, I send out to our journal club one of the key articles that he reads every Sunday, right?

    21. AM

      Yeah. How many articles for your last book did you have to read?

    22. MG

      Uh, 1,600 went into the last book, uh, 1,600 that I documented. But there were a lot of articles that I read, just the abstract and the introduction and conclusion, and not the gobbledygook in the, in the middle, uh, that were added. But as I said, all the science that we're using has already been written about, has already been documented repetitively. So, there were waypoints in my maturation to the point that I'm at right now. In the beginning, it was hormone, hormone, hormone. But it turned out that inflammation is the real key, is the real problem. Uh, the hormones are shut off by the inflammation. So, in the past, we were only giving hormones. And yes, we did find that things like estradiol, pregnenolone, DHEA, and DHT dropped inflammation. So, um, it wasn't, you know, right out there obvious that that's what we were doing, until Andrew and I got together. And that was a point where natural transition, looking further into this issue of inflammation.

    23. JR

      And are you, when you're monitoring it, you- you're looking for these inflamma- inflammatory markers in the blood?

    24. MG

      Correct.

    25. JR

      What, what are those markers?

    26. MG

      Uh, the ones that we did a study last year on was tumor necrosis factor alpha, uh, interleukin-1, 1B, and tumor necrosis factor, uh... excuse me, I, uh, interleukin-6. These are the four key ones. And we've now narrowed it down to interleukin-6 and tumor necrosis factor alpha. And the reason why is that tumor necrosis factor alpha is linked to autoimmune diseases, as I said earlier. And people who are put onto a blocker for tumor necrosis factor alpha and, uh, expensive medication, their depression disappeared. Well, what we found is, um, natural products which will regulate cytokines and regulate these interleukin-1, 6, and tumor necrosis factor alpha, and that has become the core of our treatment right now. Uh, we do laboratory testing. Uh, we look at their hormone balance, we look at their inflammatory, uh, parameters, and then we put them on to this, uh, kit, which is called the Tri-Pak, which has in it, um, 16 components. And a lot of what we've already talked about is in there. And we're seeing improvement in, uh, the guys that are... guys and gals that are on it that's more rapid because it addresses the inflammatory component. Yes, we do testosterone.

    27. AM

      (clears throat)

    28. MG

      Yes, in the women, estradiol, progesterone, and, um, pregnenolone. And they do get better. But with this product... and we're doing a study right now, uh, with three different groups of active military th- in the United States, obviously. And, um, in the first month on one group in California, active military, they had a 42% improvement. The only thing we did was we gave them this kit. And in the kit, it drops the inflammation. One of the guys, uh, sent in his report. They fill out a, uh, a report which has 18 questions on it on how they're doing different areas. His migraines improved by 70%.

    29. JR

      Just-

    30. MG

      Yes.

  6. 1:15:00 – 1:19:14

    Wow. …

    1. MG

      but they weren't getting any benefit from it, 61%, six one, 61% of the people had growth hormone deficiency. And when they put them back on, when they put them on something to raise the level of growth hormone, what they saw in one to two months was their depression disappeared and they ended up with four benefits. They slept better, they had brighter brains, they had better interpersonal relationships, and they weren't fly off the handle, they weren't explosive emotionally.

    2. JR

      Wow.

    3. MG

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      Um, so is there any downside to taking that much fish oil? That sounds-

    5. MG

      (laughs)

    6. JR

      ... like a large dose of fish oil.

    7. MG

      Yeah. You have to taper up to it. For me, um, you know-

    8. JR

      Taper up?

    9. MG

      Yeah. Diarrhea.

    10. JR

      Okay.

    11. MG

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Oh, the diarrhea.

    13. MG

      Yeah. Diarrhea can occur.

    14. JR

      How does your body, uh, get used to fish oil and not go, "Okay, open up the floodgates"?

    15. MG

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      How does that work?

    17. MG

      Genetics. Either you're predisposed to it or not.

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MG

      So, at 10,000, I'm good.

    20. JR

      So, when you get to 13,000, that's when you got to run to the potty?

    21. MG

      10,001.

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. MG

      (laughs)

    24. AM

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      And what is it? It's just the ex- excess oil in your system?

    26. MG

      It, it's oil. Yeah. I- look it, mineral oil has been used for decades-

    27. JR

      Yes.

    28. MG

      ... or centuries for helping people with, as a cathartic to help them have bowel movement.

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. MG

      We're allowed to talk about bowel movements here.

Episode duration: 2:49:49

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