Joe Rogan Experience #1602 - Justin Wren

1. 0:02 – 2:40

   Buffalo Trace surprise: gifting Joe a custom single-barrel pick

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JWJustin Wren0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Oh hey, Justin. What's up, my man?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      What's up, buddy? You got a, a, a whole book of stuff to talk about.

   5. JWJustin Wren0:19

      Yeah, my-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      You're prepared.

   7. JWJustin Wren0:21

      I'm prepared a little bit.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      You're like a professional.

   9. JWJustin Wren0:22

      Like, there's something special. There's something special and we're gonna kick this off with a bang.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Uh-oh.

   11. JWJustin Wren0:26

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       Something I don't know about?

   13. JWJustin Wren0:28

       Something you don't know about.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Uh-oh.

   15. JWJustin Wren0:30

       But we'll get into it.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       Okay.

   17. JWJustin Wren0:31

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Special.

   19. JWJustin Wren0:33

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Tell me.

   21. JWJustin Wren0:34

       You wanna do it now?

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Sure.

   23. JWJustin Wren0:36

       Awesome. Let's do it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       What's happening?

   25. JWJustin Wren0:39

       Well, you and your team, you, uh, picked Fight for the Forgotten, uh, my non-profit, as charity of choice with Buffalo Trace.

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Yes.

   27. JWJustin Wren0:48

       And we're gonna do something really special for all your fans.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Oh.

   29. JWJustin Wren0:52

       But first, um, (smacks lips) I wanted to do something ni- ... I talked with Bo Beckman. His great-grandfather's great-grandfather, I think his name's like T-H, I don't know, uh, Eckert or something like that. He, um, (smacks lips) he started basically the modern day bourbon in America. So, anyways, I asked him, I was talking with Bo and said, "Could we do something special for Joe?" And he was like, "Yeah. What are you, what are you thinking?" And so I talked with my buddy Ryan, who's the vice president of our board, and we thought about it and we were like, "What if we could get a barrel from Buffalo Trace and we could give it to Joe?"

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Oh, Jesus.
2. 2:40 – 8:40

   Whiskey tasting chaos: Joe picks barrel #3 (mostly on vibes)

   1. JWJustin Wren2:40

      Here's gonna be sample one.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:42

      Oh, geez.

   3. JWJustin Wren2:42

      I need you put that maybe to the left or right. (glass clunks)

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      Do I have to test these?

   5. JWJustin Wren2:47

      And then ... Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:47

      Mm.

   7. JWJustin Wren2:48

      Well, here, here's the idea.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:49

      Looks like I'm gonna get hammered again.

   9. JWJustin Wren2:51

      (laughs)

   10. NANarrator2:52

       Glasses?

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       Need glasses?

   12. NANarrator2:53

       Do you?

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       I think so.

   14. JWJustin Wren2:53

       We, we got them right here.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       Oh, he's got them.

   16. NANarrator2:55

       Yeah, I figured.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:55

       He's got them right here.

   18. JWJustin Wren2:56

       I talked to Bo. Bo helped us out. So, do you like yours with water in it or no?

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       No. What am I, a girl?

   20. JWJustin Wren3:04

       (laughs) Well, this, this is the idea.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       What is that?

   22. JWJustin Wren3:06

       Well, this is how we wanted to say thank you, is you get to pick your own-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       So you put it in a little thing.

   24. JWJustin Wren3:11

       Yep. Here's, uh, a glass.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       Oh, this is hilarious. This is so nerdy.

   26. JWJustin Wren3:14

       But this is why we're doing it. It's nerdy, sure.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       (laughs)

   28. JWJustin Wren3:17

       But this is- (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:18

       I like some nerdy things.

   30. JWJustin Wren3:19

       But this is gonna be great.
3. 8:40 – 10:46

   Raffle announcement: Buffalo Trace VIP distillery trip to raise $100K+

   1. JWJustin Wren8:40

      But, um, on fightfortheforgotten.org, there's something really special that Buffalo Trace did because you told them to donate to us. Um, it's the first thing on our website. It's, uh, uh, a raffle that we're doing. Around December, 15,000 people tried to get a hold of one of these barrels. And so if you hit order or enter today, basically on there, there's a Buffalo Trace whiskey raffle. And on that, you get like a Disney World experience for whiskey lovers.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:06

      Oh, wow.

   3. JWJustin Wren9:06

      You get to go out to the Buffalo Trace distillery, and you get to... You and seven guests would be able to do it. And you can enter for $10, $25, $50, or $100, and you get a VIP tour. Bo's gonna do it himself. You know, his great-great-grandfather is the one that basically modernized bourbon drinking today. And then, uh, you get to stay at the lodge that they have there. And then I'm gonna go up there and visit them, and we're gonna go around all the different warehouses. And they can taste literally straight from the barrel. And then at the end, they could, they could either buy a barrel for themselves and have 220, uh, bottles. Or we're trying to find a donor, maybe, uh, my friend, Ryan Llewellyn, who's a whiskey connoisseur, he might go ahead and buy it on their behalf and they'll get 220 bottles themselves.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:50

      (imitates explosion)

   5. JWJustin Wren9:51

      And so, uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      That's so much to give someone.

   7. JWJustin Wren9:53

      Yeah, but they get to pick it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:54

      You're just asking for trouble.

   9. JWJustin Wren9:55

      Well, well, actually-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       (laughs)

   11. JWJustin Wren9:56

       ... they said that they, they could resell it to any, um, like local store.

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:00

       Oh, if they wanted to.

   13. JWJustin Wren10:00

       Any store's probably gonna buy it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:02

       Oh, yeah, for sure.

   15. JWJustin Wren10:02

       And so they'll make a, a profit off of it, but...

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       Do you know this co- this company's older than the United States?

   17. JWJustin Wren10:07

       Wow.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       Buffalo Trace is from 1773.

   19. JWJustin Wren10:10

       Wow.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       Yeah, they're three years older than the United States.

   21. JWJustin Wren10:14

       (laughs) That's wild.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:15

       That's wild.

   23. JWJustin Wren10:15

       That's wild.

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:16

       That, that is a... That's a longstanding company.

   25. JWJustin Wren10:19

       Yeah. Wow. So our goal on that is to raise $100,000. Bo really thinks we can do it. We even thought, man, if 15,000 people tried to do, um, you know... 15,000 people tried to get it around Christmas time one of these barrels-

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:33

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JWJustin Wren10:33

       ... you know, I was just mentioning it on the show, I might be able to get 40,000 people. If they did, if they did $25 raffle tickets, 40,000 people, that's the first time Fight for the Forgotten would ever raise a million dollars from any one specific donor.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Wow.

4. 10:46 – 11:34

   Impact update: 73 wells, Uganda expansion, and land secured for displaced Pygmies

   1. JWJustin Wren10:46

      And so, uh, it, it's gonna be incredible for us because we're really trying to expand in the Congo, or sorry, actually Uganda with the Pygmies. So we moved from there.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:54

      How many, how many, uh, wells have been dug so far?

   3. JWJustin Wren10:57

      73.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:57

      Wow.

   5. JWJustin Wren10:58

      Yeah. And when I came on the first time, zero, you know.

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:02

      (exhales) That's amazing.

   7. JWJustin Wren11:02

      And we've been able to provide water, clean water, to over 60,000 people.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:06

      Wow.

   9. JWJustin Wren11:07

      And right now, uh, you know, Dustin, whenever he fought Khabib, he, uh, helped us raise, I don't wanna slaughter it, but it was either 155 or $185,000. It was him, Dana and Khabib. Whenever they did their shirt exchange-

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JWJustin Wren11:20

       ... uh, Dustin said he was gonna try to raise $25,000 for us. He blew through that before they even, even the fight started.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       That's amazing.

   13. JWJustin Wren11:26

       And, uh, then they exchanged shirts, and then we were able to take that money, we were able to buy 48 acres of land for the Pygmies in Uganda.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       Wow.

5. 11:34 – 14:53

   Why they were forced out: politics, slums, and living on top of a cemetery

   1. JWJustin Wren11:34

      And so when they got kicked out of the Semuliki National Forest, um, in Uganda-

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:39

      Why, why did they get kicked out of it?

   3. JWJustin Wren11:41

      Uh, the Ugandan Wildlife Authority would say to protect the forest and to protect the animals, although the Pygmies are the protectors of the forest. And they deserve part of the forest because they're the people of the forest. And so, um, I would say it was politics.

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      Was there, was there an issue with, uh, overhunting or nothing?

   5. JWJustin Wren11:58

      No, no, they only take what they need. And they don't go after elephants, they don't go after the things they're not supposed to.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:03

      Hmm.

   7. JWJustin Wren12:04

      They just go after the, the wild hogs. I mean, they eat what they get, but, um, there was no poaching. And they put them on one acre of land behind-... the, uh, the, the slums. One acre. Said this is where, for Chief Zeto, they said, "This is where your 300 people can live."

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:19

      Oh.

   9. JWJustin Wren12:19

      300 people can live on one acre of land. It's on the slums. They throw out the sewage, and literally the sewage just starts, um, going through it. I've seen them pick up their firewood 'cause the fire would go out from the raw sewage from the slums.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:31

       Oh, geez.

   11. JWJustin Wren12:32

       And so they'd have to shift where they're cooking. Um, I was walking over these mounds. That's why we really needed to get 'em new land and shift them from living right behind the slums. And it was, it was, honestly, it was heart-wrenching because the, um ... (smacks lips) I, I was walking on these mounds and I asked Chief Zeto, I go, "What are these mounds?" He goes, "They won't give us anywhere to bury our dead. We live on top of our cemetery." And, um, there was over 150 people that were buried there. So literally, over 300 people-

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       In one acre?

   13. JWJustin Wren13:03

       ... on one acre. On one acre.

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       Oh, my God. So just-

   15. JWJustin Wren13:04

       They're buried on top of each other, right by, side by side. Um-

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:08

       That is insane.

   17. JWJustin Wren13:09

       It was, it was, it was like 1 to 1.25 acres, but it was less than two acres. And so, um, Dustin made it possible through the Good Fight Foundation donating to Fight for the Forgotten, and Khabib donating a shirt, um, and Dana matching it, for us to go get 48 acres of new land. We also drilled, uh, a water tower, not just a well, but a water tower for an orphanage, um, and a school that the Pygmy kids started going to. Um, and now we've started farms on that 48 acres of new land. I actually talked to Manny Pacquiao's team. One of their missions is to, to build homes. And Manny Pacquiao, yesterday, um, his executive director gave us, um, confirmation that they're gonna donate $50,000 to us to help complete 32 homes for these 32 surviving families. And so they're actually being taught how to drill ... or actually, they've been taught how to drill wells and be part of that process, how to farm with agriculturalists, uh, growing corn, um, cassava, uh, potatoes, and peanuts. But also, we're about to start teaching 'em how to make bricks, how to build homes. And they're gonna go from never having a real home, you know, living in the forest, to then now being on, um, uh, in these shacks, to now that each family's gonna have a two-bedroom home at least. And then they're gonna have a patio, they're gonna have a kitchen inside, a dining room. It's just gonna absolutely change-

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       That's awesome.

   19. JWJustin Wren14:25

       ... change their way of life.

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:26

       So this 48 acres, is, is that enough for them to hunt on?

   21. JWJustin Wren14:30

       It's not enough for 'em to hunt on, so that's why we're having to teach 'em how to farm. Now, if they can still go into the forest, that's gonna be f- some talking with the, um ... They're allowed to go hunting, or they're allowed to go hunt for basically wild mushrooms or, I guess, gather. They're allowed to go gather firewood. They're allowed to go gather, um, uh, like fruits and vegetables, um, and roots.

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:49

       Like wild-

   23. JWJustin Wren14:50

       Yeah, wild.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:50

       ... wild plants. But they can't-

   25. JWJustin Wren14:52

       But they can't hunt. (sighs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:53

       They can't hunt?

6. 14:53 – 20:21

   Congo wildlife and brutality: okapi poaching, rebels, and witnessing mob violence

   1. JWJustin Wren14:53

      Yeah, it's wild. In the Congo, it's much different because there's so much virgin forest that's been untouched, and they can still go in there. And they can, um, hunt and gather. They can get wild hog. I mean, I've had, uh, duiker, this little antelope. I've had, um, hog. I've had a parrot. (laughs) I've had a monkey there. Um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      You ate ... That's what we talked about.

   3. JWJustin Wren15:15

      I ate monkey, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      You ate monkey. We talked-

   5. JWJustin Wren15:16

      And so-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      There's a amazing documentary from the BBC on, uh, the Congo. And one of the things that it covers is the duiker, and that the duiker actually swims under water. And, uh ...

   7. JWJustin Wren15:27

      I didn't know that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      Yeah, they swim under the water and they eat fish.

   9. JWJustin Wren15:30

      Wow. I had no clue.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:31

       Yeah, this is what's crazy. What the, the documentary was discussing was the, how rapid it was that these, uh, grasslands turned into rainforests. Apparently, it was a very drastic climate shift and a lot of these plains animals got stuck in the Congo. It's pretty wild 'cause you can see, like, these-

   11. JWJustin Wren15:51

       It is wild.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       ... these, like, herds. I guess they would be herds, like-

   13. JWJustin Wren15:55

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       ... of, uh, antelope running through the swamp.

   15. JWJustin Wren15:58

       Oh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       They're like, it's, it's trampling through this ... Like, all these animals you would normally see, like, in these l- grassy plains, they're running through the water.

   17. JWJustin Wren16:06

       Wow.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       And this little duiker, that little antelope thing, swims under water. They can swim under water as, as long as 100 yards.

   19. JWJustin Wren16:13

       That's wild.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Yeah.

   21. JWJustin Wren16:14

       I didn't know that. Have you ever seen a okapi or an okapi?

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       Yeah. Yeah.

   23. JWJustin Wren16:17

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Cool looking.

   25. JWJustin Wren16:17

       Yeah, they're, they're incredible.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       That's like a zebra or a-

   27. JWJustin Wren16:19

       It's like a zebra butt and a giraffe head-

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Yeah.

   29. JWJustin Wren16:21

       ... and then the body of an antelope-

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Yeah.
7. 20:21 – 24:16

   PTSD, grief, and the emotional toll of humanitarian work

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:21

      Did you feel that about the Congo? 'Cause-

   2. JWJustin Wren20:24

      Uh, I felt, I felt almost... I don't know if it's survivor's guilt or what, but, um, when I came back, I couldn't really sleep in my bed for quite a while. I would say over two months. Um, and the reason was I didn't have a bed there. I just slept on the dirt and the fire was my blanket. And I was-

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:40

      So you wanted to sleep, like, almost on the dirt here?

   4. JWJustin Wren20:43

      I guess. Um, I felt like they didn't have one, so maybe I didn't deserve one. Um, and I know that's twisted, um, but I buried a couple of kids. A little boy named Mandy Beau, another boy named Bobbo. Little Moe had, had died, and Fina just recently died. Uh, I'm, uh, well, she died in 2020. Um, I met her when she had tuberculosis and she was seven years old, and she just died at 14 years old and it was a lung thing. They say it was... She had a dead lung in there and she needed a, a transplant, but it was while COVID was going on, too. And we got her out of the Congo and, um, this was like February, March. And, uh, we got her out of the Congo and got her to Uganda. Got her to a good hospital, and then they said we needed to take her to one other place. To not have a lung transplant, but just to remove, um, the, the dead... I think it was the left lung inside of her. And so in transport, whenever she was being taken there, she's 14 years old, um, you know, she died. And so we're trying to save her life, but we had to send her back in like a, you know, a casket. And it, um... That kind of stuff, like, messes with you and, um, it's heartbreaking and you want to make sure it doesn't happen again, um, for some of these kids. And so I think I've been to at least five funerals of children under the age of five years old.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:01

      Hmm.

   6. JWJustin Wren22:01

      Um, and so, um, you know, that kind of hard stuff I... I mean, I've been told by Dr. Daniel Amen and, um, uh, some other people that I have PTSD from some of this stuff, you know, um, taking rape victims to the hospital right after they've been gang raped. Like, tied to a tree and gang raped. Um, and when that kind of stuff happens, it's, it's very brutal on, on the women mentally, but also physically. You know, sometimes they need surgeries, um, to try to help them be normal again. Um, not to get too graphic, but, um, it's, uh... There's a guy that won a Nobel Peace Prize, he actually passed away now, but he's from the Congo, he's from Goma. And he was, like, revolutionary or, or innovative in that surgery. Like, repairing women's, um-

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:45

      Oh, God.

   8. JWJustin Wren22:46

      ... uh, and giving them a normal life again so they can stay clean and be hygienic and things like that. Um, so it's, it's been a lot. And honestly, man, I- I was hoping to come in on this podcast and, uh, be, you know, more, more real and more raw. I mean, I feel like I'm normally a pretty transparent dude on here, um, and as well going through life, but 2020 was actually the hardest year of my life. Um, the first six months, uh, was the toughest six months of my life, and then the last six months, even now, has been the best, uh, of my life, which has been an incredible turnaround. But me and I, um... I think, I think this year, 2021, my goal is, is healing and kind of healing from the inside out. I've been doing that physically, um, from a lot of stuff that I've got in there. Um, but I've been trying to do it, like, emotionally or mentally and, and, and just mind and heart, um, healing. But it's been quite a journey. Um, in March, I- I'd say that I... from '23 when I stopped drinking. And what's cool about this moment for me is like I'm not just, um-... you know, been sober, sitting in defeat, maybe in these meetings where I don't have a hopeful life or a great life to live. Not that, th- those meetings can be great, but, but sometimes you see some old-timers and, and they're not, um, they're not like living in victory or they're not walking free, they're

8. 24:16 – 44:22

   Relapse and recovery: oxy addiction, rehab ‘fight camp,’ and Stone Gate’s hard approach

   1. JWJustin Wren24:16

      sitting in defeat. And so like for me to be able to sit here with you and let you, you know, taste some of the greatest whiskey there is, and for me to be able to go up on a trip and experience that with, uh, whoever wins this raffle, it's gonna be pretty incredible. But, um, in 2020, I was in 90 days of rehab and I was also in 90 days of sober living. And so I'd relapsed, and, uh, it was mainly to oxy, but also weed, um, and some other things.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:46

      Did you get injured? Were you, uh-

   3. JWJustin Wren24:49

      Well, I had a shoulder surgery, um-

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:51

      Is that when you started taking oxys?

   5. JWJustin Wren24:52

      No. I, um, I, yes I did, and you actually helped, uh, a couple years ago my ex-wife had reached out and, um, she was looking for something and, and I think you had told her about k- kratom or kratom, it was from my phone.

   6. JRJoe Rogan25:06

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JWJustin Wren25:07

      And, uh, who was that? Hamilton Morris, is that his name?

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:10

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JWJustin Wren25:10

      He had, uh, said about kratom or kratom here, um, and that helped melt away the withdrawals. Withdrawals from oxy are, is the hardest, besides malaria, it's the next hardest thing I've ever gone through. Um, and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       Were you on an excessive dose? Were you taking-

   11. JWJustin Wren25:29

       I was on it for, for four weeks in that I had six or eight weeks worth of, of, uh, prescriptions, but since I abused it so much from 17 to 23, whenever you take that stuff, you can get addicted within the first, I don't know, nine days. Like you're hooked to it, chemically. Um, it's one of the fast, it's almost like, it's a, it's the pharmaceutical version of heroin, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JWJustin Wren25:52

       So, um, whenever I had that shoulder surgery, it was such a brutal one, I didn't want to go on oxy at all. But, um, it was such a major surgery that I'd be, uh, uh, in a, in a cast where I couldn't move at all for, or sling, um, for eight full weeks.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:08

       What'd you get done?

   15. JWJustin Wren26:09

       Uh, I had my labrum, uh, and I had four, not pins but, um, anchors put in.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:13

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JWJustin Wren26:14

       Um, and there was some other stuff they did too, but that was the main part of it. They like scraped out some stuff. There was a cyst that was sitting in there in between the labrum and in between the glenoid, the joint there, so they had to scoop that out. Had a bunch of scar tissue and when they got in there they thought it was gonna take four hours, well it ended up taking like eight hours. Um, and I'm grateful that that surgeon helped save my, my shoulder. He actually sits on my board as the chairman of my board now with Fight for the Forgotten.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:39

       Mm.

   19. JWJustin Wren26:40

       And, uh, he's been such a gift, uh, to us and to me in my career, but also to us as an organization.

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:46

       And your shoulder's all good now?

   21. JWJustin Wren26:47

       Yeah, shoulder, my left one's better than my right one.

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:49

       Really?

   23. JWJustin Wren26:49

       (laughs) Really. Um-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:50

       Shoulder, labrums are a weird one, right? Because it's the cartilage and the-

   25. JWJustin Wren26:53

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:54

       ... it's like it doesn't get a good blood supply.

   27. JWJustin Wren26:55

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:56

       They say labrum surger- surgery for people when they get to a certain age, it's like basically useless.

   29. JWJustin Wren27:01

       Right. Well, that's why I'm, I'm really glad we got that, that treatment in our shoulders and our knees to keep it, um, it, you know, growing new tissue.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:09

       Mm. Yeah.
9. 44:22 – 46:34

   Root cause story: bullying at 13 and the ‘worthless’ script that fueled self-hate

   1. JWJustin Wren44:22

      I think you really start to unwind the, the tangled web of why, um, you use. And for me it's always been, like, self-worth. It's been, uh, like, w- uh, that bullying moment when I was a kid, my, my record can go right back to the three things the kids told me. And so I dressed up for a costume party. I went, um, to my middle school crush's birthday party. I crushed there because I was dressed up like a Dr Pepper transformer. 24-pack on my head, 12-packs on my arms. I went all out. Everyone was excited 'cause she loved Transformers, Optimus Prime. I went as Dr Optimus Pepper. Anyways, I get there, go to the backyard, and when the door opens, I get hit with a couple of flashes of light. And it's them taking pictures. I hear the sound of laughter. I see that no one else is dressed up. And my middle school crush said, "I can't believe you thought you were good enough to come to my party." Right next to her, a boy said, "You're worthless." And then my notorious bully from, like, third to eighth grade said, "You should just kill yourself." And so that leads to basically whenever I would relapse, I would say to myself, "You're not good enough. You're worthless. Maybe you should just kill yourself." And I was suicidal at 13. I didn't kill myself because my mom... I thought, "What would this do to her?"

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:39

      Do you still go back to that one day? Like, that one day when you were a child-

   3. JWJustin Wren45:43

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:43

      ... hurt you so badly that's, that's still in your mind almost as, like, a benchmark for who you are?

   5. JWJustin Wren45:50

      It... I did. And that's why I've, I think I've really come to a place of, like, self-love, seeing myself that, like, I'm-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:57

      When?

   7. JWJustin Wren45:57

      ... I'm needed. Uh, well, the last six months.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:00

      But the, uh... This is after your UFC career-

   9. JWJustin Wren46:02

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       ... after your Bellator career.

   11. JWJustin Wren46:04

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       All the amazing things you've done with Fight For The Forgotten. All the times-

   13. JWJustin Wren46:07

       I, I would know it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       ... you've been to the Congo.

   15. JWJustin Wren46:08

       I would know it. But when I would relapse, I would feel s- like such a piece of garbage. I would feel like I was a disappointment to myself, but also to everybody else. And that... Well, let me, let me tell you what happened in Mexico. So I, I, I end up going... I, I asked to go to a different place, and they just wanted to get me into rehab as soon as possible, which I really admire and respect. But I knew it was a place that didn't have a good access, right?

10. 46:34 – 54:24

    Mexico spiral and near-fatal overdose: cartel scene, meth mix-up, and the sunrise ‘reset’

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       In Mexico?

    2. JWJustin Wren46:34

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       Why in Mexico?

    4. JWJustin Wren46:36

       I got on a, a plane and I thought it was, I thought it was pretty symbolic. There was... It was COVID, so everything shut down. And then I, I... Man, there's a, there's a statistic that was on CNN, and it said that in Japan last month, and I don't know if this was last month in December or November, but in one month they had more suicides than all of COVID deaths in Japan. In one month.

    5. JRJoe Rogan47:04

       Yeah.

    6. JWJustin Wren47:04

       And it's because all these people are isolated. And I know that w- when I'm in active addiction, what I do is I isolate, I sedate, I suppress, and I numb out. And, uh, and there's so many people that are going through, um, this right now, what I went through. And I think COVID was a big part of that, you know, going straight from a divorce to then all of a sudden you're in isolation.

    7. JRJoe Rogan47:25

       Yeah.

    8. JWJustin Wren47:25

       Um, and then I just decided to use and then that's all I had to do, and then kept going and-

    9. JRJoe Rogan47:32

       What, what was the feeling when you, when you decide? When you say, "Okay, I'm gonna use." Like, you make a conscious decision. How do you get the weed? Like, where, what, what sets you off?

    10. JWJustin Wren47:42

        I was just hanging out with two people and they brought it out, and I was like, "You know what? I can do this once and, and show myself."

    11. JRJoe Rogan47:47

        Oh, okay.

    12. JWJustin Wren47:48

        So this is, this is what the, that mental obsession is, "It'll be different this time."

    13. JRJoe Rogan47:52

        Mm-hmm.

    14. JWJustin Wren47:53

        "I can use it this time and put it down." And-

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:55

        See, I know people that are drunks that have figured out that they can smoke weed. They can't drink, but they can smoke weed.

    16. JWJustin Wren48:01

        Well, I think, I think maybe some people are that way, but for me, um...

    17. JRJoe Rogan48:06

        So for you, it was anything that changes your consciousness?

    18. JWJustin Wren48:09

        Anything that has me drop out, where I can... Other people, whenever they smoke weed, maybe they get more creative, maybe they get more in love with themselves and nature and, and other people, or-

    19. JRJoe Rogan48:19

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JWJustin Wren48:20

        ... they ha- they laugh, they have fun. I wasn't. I was a... When I smoke weed, I go dark. I go dark not, not to anybody else, but internally I go dark and I go, I get depressed. I get depressed and, um, and then I don't want... And I can't stop, so I go for, you know, a couple of weeks or a month.

    21. JRJoe Rogan48:37

        You can't stop?

    22. JWJustin Wren48:38

        I can't stop.

    23. JRJoe Rogan48:39

        But it's depressing you?

    24. JWJustin Wren48:39

        To myself, without, without a...... a what, at rehab they say without a complete psychic change, without something happening to come in whenever you're in that restless, irritable, discontented, or that emerging remorseful, and that firm resolution. If you don't break that right there, you have like a pattern interrupt, which for me was, was rehab and sober living, like-

    25. JRJoe Rogan48:59

        But you knew it was depressing you.

    26. JWJustin Wren49:01

        I knew it was, but I thought I could use it once. But, but my mind would trick me saying... So there was this analogy that this doctor used and, and it just made sense to me. The addict brain is almost like a kid whenever he goes to the vending machine, and he puts in cha- change and he thinks he's gonna get one bag of Funyuns. All of a sudden he's getting instead of one bag of Funyuns, it keeps, it's on, and then a second one comes, or a third one comes, or it's just on and it keeps coming. And now all of a sudden it's way better than you expected. So whenever all of a sudden I have that one hit, all of a sudden it's way better than I ex- expected because in my brain, like literally biologically or whatever, it's, it's giving me more dopamine because I have limited numbers of dopamine receptors. And so now all of a sudden it gives me that, and so I think I'm happy, but if I really look back from a rational state of mind, I might be happy for a moment, but then all of a sudden that fades and I keep going and it's with every inhale or what happens with Oxy. So I get on this plane, I end up going down to Mexico, and I thought I'd just use and come back whenever we found a better place. Honestly, I thought I was gonna go to Tulum and I was gonna get in some healing waters, and I was gonna get away from my connection there, and I was gonna find a rehab place, and then I was gonna go, uh, come back and go straight to rehab. And then I just got darker and darker and darker, and I feel like... I don't know how to explain suicide to people. I, except for, um, I f- for some reason I go to this, this place of seeing the Twin Towers get hit by those planes, and it's the people that are stuck above. Um, they're stuck above the plane and it's smoldering and smoke's going in there, fire's going in there, and they're looking for a way out. They try to find... They can't go to the elevator. They try to go to the staircase. They look down, it's, it's smoldering black smoke. They can't see. All of a sudden they come to a, an open window, and no one wants to jump out of the window. But some of those people in 9/11 did. And it's almost like I have... I, I, either choice sucks, but I can stay in the burning building. Like whenever, whenever I got snagged by this addiction this last time, I felt like it got to a point to where I'm not gonna escape this time. This time it's got me in a s- a stranglehold that I, I can't get out of. I can't fight it off. I can't tuck my chin. I can't pull the hands down. I can't fight the hands. Like I'm done. I'm toast. I'm in such a weakened state of mind or body or, or mentally, spiritually, physically, like I'm not gonna escape. And so when I actually got on that plane at 5:00 AM, it was four flight attendants, two pilots, and me. I have no idea why American Airlines still took that plane, um, unless it was like something with like COVID funding that they, if they still operate, they get funding for it. But they would've lost money on that just taking one person down to Mexico. They took me to Cancun and I took a one-way ticket. And the reason I took a one-way ticket was because I thought, "I'm not coming back this time. I'm not coming back from it." And I ended up going and staying at this, uh, Airbnb there, and I met a military veteran, um, who was there, who was stoked that he bought this condo that was next to mine, my Airbnb. And then he got a call that, um, like the love of his life wasn't coming to the condo that he bought for them. Basically, she said, "If you went down there during COVID, you expect me to come down there in COVID?" Like, um, you know, "I'm not coming." And so he had his heart broken. I was down there in a very negative space. He had Oxy on him. He had PTSD. He had, um, seen a lot of war. He served a lot of time. I guess he went on three different, um, tours. And I just started using those Oxys with him, and then w- we found his connection, which you can just buy them at the pharmacy there in Mexico. But we ended up finding this guy that had weed, that had coke. Um, we got Oxy, um, and then we asked him for molly once and, um, you know, the guy had loose lips and he told him that "I'm a fighter" and this stuff. Anyways, he ends up telling some of the cartel guys that are there. We get invited up to this like penthouse, uh, apartment that's got like an infinity edge pool on it. It's like this drug dealer. I mean, it looks like a guy out of... He's got the silk shirt and the chains on and, and it looks like the jungle on top of this, uh, in Playa del Carmen kind of Cancun area. And, um, he's got all the drugs there for us to just use. And then for coke, it was the best coke I'd ever ha- uh, it made everything numb, both sides of my nostrils. And then I see like people are reaching out. They're trying to get a hold of me. They love me. They know that I've relapsed and I just feel like I can't come back. I was hanging my head in shame. And honestly going, I thought it was so symbolic. Like I didn't want to take a lot of people on this journey with me. And I thought, "I'm going here. I'm not coming back. I'm either gonna die from the drugs or I'm gonna purposely, you know, kill myself." And so I was just in this negative, negative place, like, uh, felt defeated in that loop of that "You're not good enough. You're worthless. You should just kill yourself." Was just on repeat. I was stuck in this thought loop.

    27. JRJoe Rogan54:13

        That's really all back to when you were bullied when you were a kid.

    28. JWJustin Wren54:15

        That's what I feel like I discovered at, with Dr. Daniel Amen and at rehab and at these places, like Uprooting that. You know, these roots went so deep.

11. 54:24 – 1:47:19

    Tools that helped: meditation, breathwork, tribe/community, and learning boundaries

    1. JRJoe Rogan54:24

       Do you meditate?

    2. JWJustin Wren54:25

       I do now.

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:26

       When did you start?

    4. JWJustin Wren54:27

       I mean, I, I, off and on 10 years, but when I stopped practicing that, that's when I would relapse.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:32

       Yeah.

    6. JWJustin Wren54:33

       And then now it's, I think the greatest thing I discovered at rehab and at sober living was 180 days of daily meditation-

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:41

       I haven't-

    8. JWJustin Wren54:41

       ... prayer and, and just like really going inward and like setting my day up to where I'm not in that negative of a place.

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:48

       I haven't had an addiction problem, um, looking-

    10. JWJustin Wren54:50

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:51

        ... to where I, I every found something that I couldn't stop doing. But-... I feel like I get myself, I understand myself more when I take time in silence every day.

    12. JWJustin Wren55:04

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan55:04

        And I just reset my brain.

    14. JWJustin Wren55:07

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:07

        Yeah.

    16. JWJustin Wren55:07

        Well, I'm surrounded by a- a tribe now that does that. Um, what I mean by that was getting out of rehab, having those connections of people that are now beating it and staying sober, but also, I needed something a little different. Like, I don't wanna be... I wanted something more tailored towards me and my needs. And, like, just to share, like, Aubrey has been so great to me. Aubrey Marcus. I shared with him what had happened, and I saw that he started this Fit for Service. And basically, it's a mastermind group of people that wanna make their business, or whatever their livelihood is, make a difference in the world. Basically, the premise is to be of service, you must be fit for service, not just a rockstar in business, or... There's actors and athletes and musicians and podcasters and authors and things like that. But it's like, you have to be fit relationally. You have to have a tribe. That's what I found in Congo and in Uganda that I didn't have here, really. I didn't have these deep relationships with people I could completely be raw and vulnerable with, where I could share my wins with, but I can also share my biggest failures with.

    17. JRJoe Rogan56:08

        Do you feel at peace?

    18. JWJustin Wren56:09

        Oh-

    19. JRJoe Rogan56:10

        Are you at peace?

    20. JWJustin Wren56:10

        ... now I am, for sure.

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:11

        Do- you have this thing where you're always like... It seems like there's always a thing coming out of you. Like, there's always a... And then there's this and then there's that, and then there's this and there's that. And then, like, it- there's no... There's no end to it. Like, when you talk about things, you talk about one thing into the next thing, into the next thing, into the... Almost- like, almost like you're troubled, like you're immersing yourself into all these things because you kinda can't help yourself. Like, you're just caught up in the wave of life.

    22. JWJustin Wren56:40

        Hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan56:41

        Do you know what I'm saying?

    24. JWJustin Wren56:42

        I know what you're saying whenever... This last seven months has been the most at peace I've ever been. And, well, uh, I'm eight- eight months sober. And then I am really... Well, let me share two experiences with you that brought me the most peace, 'cause you're asking about that. I don't know if I've ever told you what took me to the Congo. Um, it was a sober vision. And I know that sounds out there, but experimenting with psychedelics and stuff, I've seen stuff, but this was me in-... This is me at 23, and I basically in a time of meditation and- and I wasn't a praying dude at all, but prayer, meditation. All I did was basically said, and I was volunteering at the children's hospital, I was volunteering at the rescue mission for the homeless, all this stuff. But I basically just said, "God, what do you want me to do with my life? God, source, creator," whatever you wanna put on it. But I just said, "God, what do you want me to do with my life?" And I had a movie in my mind. And it was like visualization whenever you... At the Olympic Training Center where sports psychologists take us through visualization. And you'd see yourself in whatever color singlet you're wearing. You'd see yourself shake hands. You'd hear the whistle blow. You would- you would see you setting up whatever take down you're going for. And sometimes you'd see yourself have the perfect match. Sometimes you'd see yourself battle back from worst case scenario. You get down. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna sink or swim? Um, are you gonna fight back, battle back? Well, those were all, like, guided visualizations, right?

    25. JRJoe Rogan58:15

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JWJustin Wren58:15

        And I'd also do that by myself with, like, some music and headphones. And this, though, was unlike anything like that 'cause it was unprompted. It wasn't like I was trying to conjure something up. I just really felt like I needed direction. I had stepped away from fighting for a little bit to... Because win or lose, I had an excuse to use. It was like, if I won, I wanted to celebrate. If I lost, I wanted to erase all that. And this was 11 months, uh, sober at 23. And-

    27. JRJoe Rogan58:44

        And how'd you do that?

    28. JWJustin Wren58:46

        Uh, honestly, I just kind of white knuckled it and will powered that. Um, and then I had a great group of people around me. I would say I would have a... I would say I had this, like, complete psychic change from almost a s- a spiritual experience that I'm, uh, about to share with you where I- I say that prayer, "God, what do you want me to do with my life?"

    29. JRJoe Rogan59:02

        Yeah, we- I think we talked about this before.

    30. JWJustin Wren59:04

        Really?

Episode duration: 2:43:16