EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,138 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) That sound is the sweet and sultry sound of Mike Baker lighting a cigar.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Hey, now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you, buddy. What's happening?
- MBMike Baker
Good to be seen. Good to be seen. Uh, you know, not much going on in these times of ours. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm very excited to talk to you because I had a guy on, uh, Jamie Metzl yesterday, a scientist who scared the shit out of me, talking about China. He was ta-
- MBMike Baker
(sighs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... talking about China. We were talking about China amassing n- naval power-
- MBMike Baker
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... China's taking over of tech companies-
- MBMike Baker
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and how, how huge they're getting and how much influence they have-
- MBMike Baker
(sniffs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... over their people, as opposed to the way we do it. It's-
- MBMike Baker
Well, he's not wrong.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MBMike Baker
He's not... Yeah, I can't spot the lie in, in what, what you just said. But, uh, I mean, look, he- th- I mean, there's so much we c- we can, we can talk about. But (sighs) if you think about it, just in the past handful of months, um, there was this SolarWinds hack, right, by the Russians. So, the Russians go in. They hack into a company called SolarWinds, that is an IT management software company, that happens to be, um, fairly deep into government organizations, agencies, treasury, and, and a variety of others throughout the US government. And they're also into parts of the intel community, defense department, uh, and a lot of commercial sectors. So, anyway, the Russians figure this out. Now, around about December or January, um, Microsoft, you know, identified this as a problem and, and I think it was, uh, the head of Microsoft said, "This looks like the most sophisticated attack we've ever seen." So, this is December, January timeframe. And they're still trying to figure out the depth of this hack by Russians. At the same time, and going back months and months and months before, the Chinese (laughs) had been engaged in a more sophisticated attack that while everyone is focused on what's going on, and so fully aware that we got problems, right, from, from nation-states out there who don't like us, everybody's talking about SolarWinds. And now, it's, you know, they've just now released information about the Chinese attack against, uh, Microsoft Exchange servers, uh, running the Exchange email systems. And this thing is, uh, enormous. And so the Chinese... Yeah, I mean, we have been so focused for four years on the Russians, you know? And they're, you know, they- they're out there to cause us all sorts of problems, so we should be focused on them. But, but it's China that's the biggest problem. And so this guy is absolutely right, Jamie's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was terrifying.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Listen to what he was talking about, the way he was explaining how they, you know, they have this plan. What? I think he said 2049, to be the, the global superpower of the world-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and essentially be take the place of what America used to be-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, they would-
- JRJoe Rogan
... do it their way.
- MBMike Baker
And do it their way, which means, "We're gonna bypass all the costs and the heavy lift of research and development over the years, and we're just (laughs) gonna steal everything."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
And they've been doing it for decades. So, people think, "Oh, China, it's a problem. It's a pro-" Uh, we've talked about this before-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... that, you know, this idea that perhaps this is just something relatively new or it's popped up during the previous administration of Trump. And honest to God's truth is, it's been going on for decades and they decided that that's how they're going to get to the top of the food chain, is by stealing shit, because it's a lot easier to hoover up everything and then reverse engineer it. Um, and the technology has made it even easier, right? It used to be old school. They'd go out and recruit somebody. They'd find some Chinese-American working for a company here in the States. They'd appeal to sort of, you know, you got to help the motherland and, and they would. And that was the old school way of doing it. But, you know, cyber theft is, it's, it's incredible what they're able to do. And this latest attack, well, they, they're still trying to sort out the mess, right?
- 15:00 – 30:00
Not good. …
- MBMike Baker
but, uh, so yeah, the, the Chinese is, is, is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not good.
- MBMike Baker
I, I hate to, you know, I hate to, I, I, I think sometimes, uh, people say, "Ah, quit kicking the Chinese in the ass." But the regime really does, uh, have a plan, as you pointed out. Uh, they would like to accelerate that plan to before 2049 and it's everything. It's, it's the aggression in the s- in, in the South Pacific seas, it's- it's- it's their build-up of their military, particularly their navy, um, it's- it's primarily, the part that is most frustrating is the theft of intellectual property. And (sighs) I mean, look, this- this- this hack that I just talked about earlier with- with Microsoft, with the exchange, we're getting screwed, right? So they're, they're out there. We don't, we don't know the extent. We know it's huge. We don't know the extent yet of this attack. But do you think that's gonna stop? Is Microsoft gonna stop doing business in China?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MBMike Baker
Absolutely not.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MBMike Baker
Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- MBMike Baker
And then what do the three... Facebook is banned, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Um, you know what's not banned? Um, Microsoft, right? LinkedIn, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Uh, Bing, right? So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Who the fuck uses Bing?
- MBMike Baker
I know, Bing. I know. I didn't even know-
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean-
- MBMike Baker
... it was still in existence.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a Windows laptop-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and it, it wants to pull up Bing sometimes. I'm like, "What are you doing?"
- MBMike Baker
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Please get out of here."
- MBMike Baker
Bing. Um, but it's, at that point, Bing isn't-
- JRJoe Rogan
How bad is Bing? Is it bad? Is it... It's not bad.
- MBMike Baker
Bada Bing?
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just no one's using it, right? I've used DuckDuckGo, that's what I like, 'cause DuckDuckGo gives me uncurated information, where it's like-
- MBMike Baker
That's good.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know? And it, it doesn't, DuckDuckGo doesn't save your information, it's not, it's not trying to, like, use your data and it just gives you a search. Do you know what it is? Are you aware of it?
- MBMike Baker
Shit, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
No?
- 30:00 – 45:00
Well, I will say,…
- JRJoe Rogan
with each other and talking with each other. There's too many, there's too many filters.
- MBMike Baker
Well, I will say, don't, don't ... Nobody should underestimate w- uh, that point that you just made earlier, which is that there is a very active, um, covert action, uh, wing within the Russian government, within Chinese intel, within ... And their whole point sometimes is not to do anything other than just to sow distrust-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MBMike Baker
... and instability and chaos. People say, "Well, why would they do that?" Well, they do it because it's in their best interest. Again, going back to that same thought. So, is it in the, the, you know, say the, the Russian best interest to kind of seed the idea of, "Man, you know what? Domestic terrorism and racism, that's your top priority in the States."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Well, of course it is. And so we feed into that, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
And we do our own part too, right? We ... There's, there's this, this desire to slice and dice the demographic, right? For political purposes, right? "If I can control this block-"... or if I can control that block, then I could win the election. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Well, that's fucked up. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fucked up.
- MBMike Baker
And I, uh, you know, I'm old enough to, to, you know, remember the, the, the riots, uh... Bear- I mean, okay, I was watching TV and as a kid, but the riots of the '60s and, and that, that whole civil rights process and the... And I'll be honest with you, you know, up until a, a handful of years ago, I really thought we'd moved on. I thought, you know, it was all about who you are as a person, right? Your character, as Martin Luther King used to talk about. Right? I think he would be disgusted by this idea that it's all about your, your, uh, the color of your skin.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
That's bullshit.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is bullshit.
- MBMike Baker
Uh, and it's also the, the, the sexual orientation. I don't give a fuck what your sexual orientation is. I don't need to celebrate it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't give a fuck either.
- MBMike Baker
But I don't care.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I don't care.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I think it's, it's... These are, these are attack vectors. They're- they're-
- MBMike Baker
Yes. That's a good way to put it. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're, they're ways that people can figure out a way to, to sow the seeds of dis- dissent and, and discontent. And I think that, you know, one of the things that happened that was really, uh... We, we talked about the, uh, whole situation with, um, the power grid here. It was really sad to me to watch people on the left saying, (paper rustles) "Hey," you know, "hey, Texas," you know? "You still want your independence now?"
- MBMike Baker
Yes. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "Look what happened." Like, man, you got babies freezing to death, you know? You got people without clean water. Like, is, is, is that who you are? 'Cause as an American, I don't give a fuck if you're a Republican or a Democrat. I share ideas from both sides.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm a-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm kind of a hybrid in a lot of ways.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Well, look, there's no…
- JRJoe Rogan
would have a completely different take on it.
- MBMike Baker
Well, look, there's no science... This- as an example, guy- I'm focused because I got the- these- I got these three knuckleheads at home, right? So I'm focused on, like, the, the, the education side of things as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
And so... As, as, as are you, but they- it's... There's no science. People believe science. Well, of course believe science. That, that, that's one of the funniest narratives. "Believe science." Well, who the fuck doesn't believe? I mean, that's fine, but it's a political issue, right? So... But I think that, uh, there's no science that shows that, that, you know, a six-foot distance in public schools for kids, right? Is, i- is, is, uh, is essential to their health. So, in fact, the science shows three foot. That's fine. And what that does, though, the importance of that is logistics, right? Because it allows for you to get the schools open again. People will talk about, "The six-foot distance. We can't get these kids back into their classrooms with six-foot distances. We can't get enough of them in there." It's the little things, it's the logistics of it saying, well, get it down to three foot, which is what the science supports, and then you can get these schools, you can start opening these places back up in a responsible manner. Honest to God, we're going to look at this thing in, in a year or two. Maybe we won't, because we're not going to be honest with ourselves. But we're g- if we actually did an honest hotwash of this, uh, reaction to the pandemic, our reaction has been pathetic, right? Over, over this past year. I-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think-
- MBMike Baker
This has not been a shining moment for us.
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't you think part of the problem is we started out with a different idea what the virus is? We started out thinking that it was going to be, like, the next Spanish flu, and that it was going to kill... I mean, everyone was terrified, and me included. I was scared of it.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
In the beginning, I thought that it was going to be something that kills 10% of the population, you know?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) No.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it didn't turn out to be that way, but we never made an adjustment.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. No, I... Uh, yes, I think that's true, and I think also part of it is, is you can't negate the, uh, or minimize the political reaction, right? If, if, if Joe Biden had been president when this thing broke, I guarantee you the reaction would have been somewhat different. The fact that Trump was in there-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... and created so much emotion, um, and there was such animosity, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank God Trump-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... wasn't pro-vaccine. We would be fucked.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Because, you know, he was pro so many other therapeutics, and they're like, "Hydroxychloroquine is racist."
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, like-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank God he didn't say anything about ivermectin or-
- MBMike Baker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, vitamin D or quercetin or any of the other things that we've been... Or zinc.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, but I do think that was... You know, that was a big issue, was, was like, "Ah."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
"You see?"
- JRJoe Rogan
He was so polarizing.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. And we can't, and we can't trust the, the, the vaccines because, you know, they were developed under Trump.
- 1:00:00 – 1:07:54
Yeah. …
- MBMike Baker
be told by the federal government to do the right thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
They're just doing it because what the fuck? You know, it's...
- JRJoe Rogan
But isn't... There's, there's this thing going on where there's all these different arguments, and there's all these different narratives, and all these different people that are arguing their points. And no one knows exactly what the motives are, exactly who's doing what or why. And, you know, you're worried about the far left if you're in the far right, and you're worried about the r- the, the left. You know, everybody's, everybody in the right is worried about the left. Everybody in the left is worried about the right. And everybody in the center is trying to figure out-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... where the fuck the rational people are. One of the things that I'm worried about, and this is gonna sound really weird, but I'm worried that what this is really gonna... What, what, what all of this dissent and, and confusion is going to bring about is the rise of some sort of technological symbiosis where, where we can read each other's minds, where we can understand each other better, and it's gonna make us less human than we are currently. I'm really worried about that, and I'm...
- MBMike Baker
Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm wor- I'm worried about these weird interfaces, like, you know, Elon Musk is, uh, trying to do this, uh, Neurolink thing.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think he's doing it because he wants to acc- he, he wants to increase the bandwidth between human beings and information, which is a very, uh, it's a noble concept.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're gonna make people smarter, more access to information. One of the things he said to me, "You're gonna be able to talk without words."
- MBMike Baker
You know, I, I think... I don't know necessarily-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think we're gonna read each other's minds.
- MBMike Baker
I don't know if there's this... I don't know that there's a correlation between access to more information and getting smarter. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
But this is what I think.
- MBMike Baker
So, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think ultimately there's going to be some sort of technology that literally allows people to understand people's intent and to read their thoughts and ideas. And I think it's not that far away. It might be 50 years, whatever it is, but we're moving in this direction where we're gonna be less human. And that might be... Because of all the bullshit that's been created by social media and by these conversations, by these algorithms that encourage people to be upset about things, that they, they encourage outrage. That we're, we're gonna move into some weird place where we're gonna have to change who we are in order to recognize what are the motives behind these, these different-... programs and campaigns that are, uh, m- forcing people into these situations where they hate each other.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah, I, as somebody who's taken the polygraph, I, m- I don't know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hook me up with all this stuff.
- MBMike Baker
... four, four dozen, four dozen times-
- JRJoe Rogan
I wanna see if I can lie.
- MBMike Baker
Uh, yeah, well, what I was gonna say was, I mean, we used to say when, in the, with the polygraph that, "Oh, my God, can't you just put, like, a, like, a colander on our head and just read our, our thoughts? Because that would be a lot more pleasant and easier," right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you ever, uh, uh, you beaten a polygraph? Have you ever lied?
- MBMike Baker
Uh, no. I've had-
- JRJoe Rogan
You can be lied, though, right?
- MBMike Baker
... I've had a lot of inconclusive. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- MBMike Baker
Because the polygraph, the thing about the polygraph is, A, it's, uh, it's all p- physiological ac- activity, right? It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
Episode duration: 2:59:08
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