Joe Rogan Experience #1643 - Jonathan Zimmerman

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (upbeat music) Free speech and why you should give a damn. Jonathan Zimmerman. Why should we give a damn?

   4. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:20

      Well, we should give a damn because free speech has been at the heart of every movement for change in this country. Every great warrior against oppression was also a warrior for free speech.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      But wouldn't it be convenient if we just silenced people we disagree with? That seems a lot easier for me.

   6. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:34

      No. It's natural.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:36

      (laughs)

   8. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:36

      All right? Um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:37

      It is natural, right?

   10. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:38

       Right? And that's why we have to resist it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Yes.

   12. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:40

       Like, I get it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Yeah.

   14. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:41

       Like, everyone's experienced that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       Yes.

   16. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:42

       Everyone's seen somebody or heard somebody they despise and say, "God, I just want that person to shut up."

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Right.

   18. JZJonathan Zimmerman0:48

       And that's why we have to resist it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Um, there's a lot of very intelligent people that disagree with you in this current political climate, unfortunately. I think that was exacerbated by the Trump administration and this desire to, like, stop a lot of the QAnon stuff and the Pizzagate stuff, and a lot of these conspiracy theories that people were frustrated that they were taking hold and they were like, "What do we ... How do we stop this? We gotta stop these people from talking."

   20. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:13

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       So that's the argument for censorship.

   22. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:16

       That's one of them, and the other argument has to do with race and ethnicity. I mean, the other-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Yes.

   24. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:20

       ... argument is that it, you know, it harms minorities. And I think those are different arguments, but sometimes they're connected.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       The ... So-

   26. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:27

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       ... you mean censorship against racism, you-

   28. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:30

       Correct.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:30

       Is that what you're saying?

   30. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:31

       Correct. Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Right. …

   1. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:00

      you know, uh, uh, Hong Kong and-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Right.

   3. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:02

      ... South Africa and England. But also, we can't romanticize it. I mean, it was a dictatorship. And, you know, in some ways, I think my concerns about free speech in some ways stem from that experience as well, because I can remember my parents on the ph- ... Uh, you know, when they would talk on the phone, they would often sort of say jokingly, "Hey, you know, we better not go there. We don't know who's listening."

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      Yeah. Well, that's-

   5. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:24

      And, and-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:24

      ... everywhere now though.

   7. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:25

      (laughs) Right. For a different reasons, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      Yeah.

   9. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:27

      But, you know, uh ...

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       For the NSA. Hi, NSA.

   11. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:29

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       Well, this is a podcast, so they're definitely listening to this. (laughs)

   13. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:33

       That's right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       But your phone.

   15. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:34

       That's right. Yes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       You know, when, um, Edward Snowden, uh, had to leave the country and, you know, and Glenn Greenwald, they published that story about the NSA's, uh, all the, you know, the shit that he leaked where there was this widespread surveillance on, uh, the American public.

   17. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:52

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       That, that's really disturbing.

   19. JZJonathan Zimmerman15:55

       It is disturbing. And again, the difference is thanks to democracy and free speech, you and I can critique that. We may- we may not be able to control it, we may not be able to end it. It's a complicated question, but-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Right.

   21. JZJonathan Zimmerman16:05

       ... nobody's gonna come in the night for my family or for yours because we're criticizing the NSA. Right?

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       Yeah. We can-

   23. JZJonathan Zimmerman16:11

       I mean-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       ... critique it, but it still, it still exists.

   25. JZJonathan Zimmerman16:14

       Yes, it does.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       It's, it's very strange.

   27. JZJonathan Zimmerman16:16

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       It's like, you know, "Hey, you can't do that. Uh, you shouldn't have done that. Oh, you're still doing it?"

   29. JZJonathan Zimmerman16:21

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       "Oh, are they still doing it? They are still doing it. Okay. Well, what do we do about that?" "Well, they're not doing anything with it."
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   I have a Kindle…

   1. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:00

      you will hold onto more, uh, when you do that."

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      I have a Kindle that has that paper screen.

   3. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:04

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      How's that?

   5. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:05

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      Is that the same as-

   7. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:06

      I don't know. I don't know. You know, and I think-

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      'Cause it looks like paper.

   9. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:09

      And, and, and look, you know, I think that obviously things are changing so rapidly, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:14

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:14

       It may well be that, uh, future generations are socialized in a different way and, you know, their eyes do different things. Um-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:21

       Have you heard of, uh, there's a new product, I ha- I've not tried it, but I've seen advertising for it, it's called Remarkable.

   13. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:27

       Oh, I read about it. Yeah, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       It's a, a tablet.

   15. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:30

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:30

       But you, when you write on it, you write it in handwriting.

   17. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:34

       Yeah. Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       And it can either save it in your handwriting or it puts it into print.

   19. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:40

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       And it looks like paper.

   21. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:41

       (laughs) Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       Like, as you're writing on it. But you can have, you know, a gigabyte-

   23. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:45

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       ... of, of information-

   25. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:48

       Yeah. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       ... on this little tablet. So like, thousands of pages. Like, you could write-

   27. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:51

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       ... books on that-

   29. JZJonathan Zimmerman30:52

       Yeah. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       ... with just this pen. And the pencil apparently has a tactile fe- do you know anything about it?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (laughs) …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      when I was in a car with my sister. I was about seven years old and I was asking my mom how babies were made. And she's like, "You know how babies are made." That was what my mom always used to say.

   2. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:08

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      "You know." I go, "No, I don't." She goes, "You're gonna ... I'm, I'm gonna tell you and you're gonna laugh." I'm like, "No, I'm not." And so she goes, "Okay. A man puts his penis in a woman's vagina." "Ah!" (laughs)

   4. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:21

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      I thought it was the funniest thing.

   6. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:23

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:23

      And she wouldn't leave me the fuck alone. She was like, "No, you, you knew it, and you were trying to say it so that you would laugh."

   8. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:28

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:28

      "No, I didn't know. You told me. Now I know."

   10. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:31

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       "I didn't know." I was seven.

   12. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:33

       You're trying to say ... And, and do you remember how she explained the N-word? Like, like, what was-

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       (smacks lips) She said it was a derogatory term for Black people.

   14. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:39

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:40

       I was like, "Wow."

   16. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:41

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       I remember thinking, "Whoa." 'Cause I didn't know what it was. I, I r-

   18. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:46

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       'Cause I was 11.

   20. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:47

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:47

       You know?

   22. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:48

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       And I j- ... I g- I guess in San Francisco I hadn't heard it. That's the only thing I could think of.

   24. JZJonathan Zimmerman45:52

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       'Cause where we lived in San Francisco was very diverse. It was like, uh, the kids in my class, it was, I don't know, like th- uh, 60/40 white and Black, and a lot of Asian too. Not even, not even white, Black. It was like ...

   26. JZJonathan Zimmerman46:08

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       I, I mean, I'm, I'm just making up numbers. I was ... It's hard to remember. But I remember there was a lot of different ethnicities-

   28. JZJonathan Zimmerman46:14

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       ... in my environment.

   30. JZJonathan Zimmerman46:16

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:17

   Uh, uh, you know,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      that jazz?

   2. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:00

      Uh, uh, you know, uh, y- yes and no. I mean, you know, everyone read Failsafe and everyone watched movies about, you know, uh, the Cuban Missile Crisis.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      Red Dawn.

   4. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:09

      And Red Dawn and all of that. But let's also remember that I'm not that old. And by the time-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      How old are you?

   6. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:15

      ... I get to young adulthood, I'm gonna turn 60 shortly.

   7. NANarrator1:00:17

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

      You look great.

   9. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:18

      (laughs) So do you, Joe.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

       Thank you.

   11. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:20

       Yeah, but coming from you, that's a, quite a, quite a compliment.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

       (laughs)

   13. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:23

       ... how, how old are, how old are you?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       53.

   15. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:25

       Oh, okay.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       Almost 54. I'll be 54 in a couple months.

   17. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:28

       All right. All right. Yeah, I mean, you know, look, by the time I get to a young adult, I mean, the, the Soviet Union is starting to implode. I mean, this is really the twilight of the Cold War.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:37

       Right? It's the-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

       Yeah.

   21. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:00:38

       ... 1980s, you know? Um, and, uh, you know, when I was a Peace Corps volunteer, uh, uh, I, I remember listening to Radio Moscow, because I was in Nepal and I had a little shortwave radio, and only two things came in, Voice of America and Radio Moscow. And Voice of America had its issues and its own brand of propaganda, but just listening, even just the sound values of Radio Moscow, it was so hilariously poor.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       Really?

   23. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:01:03

       Like, I just remember thinking, you know, this is not ... Like, we're gonna win this, this struggle. It's really not a struggle at all. You know? Like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       That's funny.

   25. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:01:12

       Yeah, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

       'Cause we had this, uh, we had this distorted perception of the powers of the Soviet Union when I was in high school, where th- ... we thought of them as being just like America-

   27. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:01:22

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:23

       ... but over there, like in terms of their, their firepower, and their-

   29. JZJonathan Zimmerman1:01:27

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

       ... and their, uh, financial, uh, means.

Episode duration: 3:06:07