Joe Rogan Experience #1656 - Adam Duritz

Adam Duritz is a singer, songwriter, and frontman of the Counting Crows. The band's first record in seven years, "Butter Miracle, Suite One", is available now.

Joe RoganhostAdam Duritzguest

Jun 27, 20242h 57mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,043 words

0:00 – 1:24
Meeting a longtime fan: the “Mr. Jones” video and feeling free on camera
1. NANarrator
  (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hello, Adam.
3. ADAdam Duritz
  Hello, Joe.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  How you doing?
5. ADAdam Duritz
  I'm pretty good.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  It's good to see you. It's nice to meet you, man. It's nice to be, uh, I, I've been a fan of your work for a long fucking time, and it's always weird when you meet someone that you listen to their music or you've seen their stuff, and you're like, "Oh, you're just a normal human being. There you are."
7. ADAdam Duritz
  A, a little whacked out, but yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) But it's, uh, you know, like, I remember watching Mr. Jones on, uh, MTV and, uh, I, I, I wa- I loved that fucking video, man, and I loved that you dancing in that, was it like a living room or something like that?
9. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah, yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm like, "I, I wanna be that free." Like, you seem so loose. You were so in the moment. I remember thinking that. I was, remember talking to a friend of mine that la- uh, that night after a, a show. I was at a bar. I was like, "You ever see that Mr. Jones video?" I go, "When that dude's dancing," I go, "I wanna, like, figure out how to get there."
11. ADAdam Duritz
  Shit, I wanna be that free.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
13. ADAdam Duritz
  And you know, it's a weird thing. I used to, I'm gonna take these off for now.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
15. ADAdam Duritz
  I used to be, for me, you know, life is often very awkward and uncomfortable, but not on stage. You know, like, on stage I always felt like, well, this is the one place on, everything I do is fine.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
1:24 – 4:22
Backlash, overexposure, and becoming self-conscious
1. ADAdam Duritz
  And so when I started, you know, making videos, uh, at first it was just like, uh, this is apps, this is easy, 'cause all I gotta do is do the stuff I gonna, I'm gonna do, you know, and, and there's nothing wrong I can do. I can just be as free as I want. And that lasted about a year and a half, maybe two years. Something about, like, getting really famous outta nowhere and then, you know, all the kind of backlash that comes with it. I noticed a couple years later I was a lot more self-conscious. I'm still, on stage I never think about anything. When I'm playing, it, nothing bothers me, but in front of cameras, I got really self-conscious in front of cameras after sometime in the middle of our second record. I just noticed that I started to suck on, not suck on video, but definitely not like that Mr. Jones video. You know?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  You became aware that so many people were watching and criticizing you, or like, what was it?
3. ADAdam Duritz
  I think it was that, you know, 'cause at first I just, uh, well, didn't care, and I just thought that there's nowhere in the world I'm more comfortable than here, so I'm fine. And then I think on our second album when we got a lot of backlash and you get a little too big and everybody, you get, you annoy the shit out of people being-
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  ... being, you know, especially 'cause in a band because you get a really successful song, they're gonna play it on the radio every five minutes. After a while, it's like, God, who wouldn't get sick of it, you know?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. ADAdam Duritz
  And then you get some backlash after that, people say some terrible things.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
9. ADAdam Duritz
  And then, and then I started thinking about, like, "What do I look like on film?" Then I got really self-conscious.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
11. ADAdam Duritz
  You know (laughs) , w- what does this, pants, does this look my, does this song make my ass look big?
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
13. ADAdam Duritz
  You know (laughs) , and, uh, I noticed that I got kind of crappy in, just in front of cameras, not the rest of the time. And, and not, like, cameras when I'm on stage at a concert. Like, you play a big festival, there's lots of cameras, it doesn't bother me there. It's just kinda sometimes on TV and in, in filming. I got kinda self-conscious.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
15. ADAdam Duritz
  And I had never been that way.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  The press stuff, like that kind of stuff got you self-conscious?
17. ADAdam Duritz
  I think so. I, I mean, I don't really know what caused it exactly. I, I would s- The only reason I would say I think you're right about that is that, is that it happened then, you know? And that was the first time I'd experienced that 'cause, you know, no one says anything bad about you when they don't know you exist, for one.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
19. ADAdam Duritz
  And then on our first record, God, we couldn't buy a bad review, you know, and, but by our second record it was, we weren't even getting, it was like, "Forget him, he's fucking this chick, so I don't have to... Forget his music." You know? And then, like, "He got fat," whatever it would be, you know?
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right, right.
21. ADAdam Duritz
  I- I- It, you start, you know, when your nationwide, when a national publication calls you fat-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
23. ADAdam Duritz
  ... you know, it's like, shit, um... I remember getting a review in, like, in England once and somebody called me, "Poncey as a fishmonger's cat," which I, I suppose fishmonger's cats eat a lot.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Poncey, like f- is that, like, chubby? Poncey?
25. ADAdam Duritz
  I thought it, I thought it meant chubby, I assume. I really don't know.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  I, I guess, Poncey?
27. ADAdam Duritz
  I don't know. It just sounded bad.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  That's so British. (laughs)
29. ADAdam Duritz
  Just being compared to a fishmonger's cat-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
4:22 – 6:08
Music as identity politics: fans, taste, and the ‘club’ effect
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. There's a thing that happens, right, like, when people discover you and they find out about you and you haven't gotten big yet, like, especially for bands, I think, where they, they, they love the fact that they're the first to tell their friends-
2. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  "You gotta listen to this band, gotta listen to this album. This is awesome." But then when you get really big and other people like it and too many people like it, then you're like, "Aw man, they were good in the beginning." Like-
4. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, I think, I think you're right. I mean, I think that music, unlike almost everything else, it becomes our personal cool, you know? I mean, we literally wear it on our shirts.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
6. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? And, and it, it defines who we are. We talk about this genre or that genre as being our gang almost. And when s- when you're discovering stuff, yeah, it's really cool. And then when you have to share it with that guy at the water cooler who likes the fucking worst music-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
8. ADAdam Duritz
  You know, that guy who's been coming in for years and he's just listening to utter shit-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
10. ADAdam Duritz
  ... and now he loves your band too, and you're like, "I don't wanna share this with Captain Asshole over there."
11. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
12. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? And, uh...
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I've never understood that 'cause why can't people with terrible taste also like great things? Like, great things are great no matter what. Like, e- everybody loves The Godfather, right?
14. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah, yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like, who, whoever says that, that movie sucks? No- nobody. But people who like terrible movies still like The Godfather, you know?
16. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, I think it's less because they now like it as that you're now, as opposed to, you were in a club without them-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
18. ADAdam Duritz
  ... and now you're in a club with them.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  That's powerful.
20. ADAdam Duritz
  And that just sucks 'cause you didn't have to be in a club with them before.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
22. ADAdam Duritz
  Uh, it's human nature. I, I mean, I get it. I, I w- I didn't like it when it landed on me, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I get it.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, and it happened to you pre-social media.
24. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You were, uh, well, you guys were just getting reviewed by experts. You weren't getting shit on by the general public yet (laughs) .
6:08 – 11:31
Early social media on AOL: direct fan contact (and fights)
1. ADAdam Duritz
  No, I mean, but that was kinda, that was a good thing for one, but-I was really into soc- right, well, it's, for me, it had happened when I was kind of already into social media, because I remember moving down to LA after our first album, and, and that year, while I was writing the second record, discovering that AOL had these, uh, like, message boards. So this is '95, say. And I realized that AOL had these forums and message boards for all the bands, and it suddenly occurred to me, "Well, I could just go on there and talk to people." 'Cause when I read it, they were worried about, were we ever gonna make a second record? Were, were we going to shit? Did we exist anymore? Like, what... y- all the questions that you wonder about your band between records. And it suddenly occurred to me, "Well, I could... I have the answers to all those questions." You know? I could just go on there. And it took me a little while to convince the people on there that I was me. But, uh-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
3. ADAdam Duritz
  (laughs) Yeah. Understandably.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Of course.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? But eventually, I did, and then, it, we sort of started this kind of community there, uh, you know, way before other social media. But it occurred to me, 'cause the rest of the time, you, you can't get to your fans except through... or you couldn't then, except through the radio, the DJs, and the press. So, like, you don't really get to give anybody your own words. They gotta be filtered through everybody else.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
7. ADAdam Duritz
  But that AOL thing was a chance to just, like, well, like what Twitter and everything is now. But it, it occurred to me back then, it was really cool. And when people started... then I got into arguments with our own fans. I've always done that. It's just like-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Like what kind of arguments?
9. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, you know, like, I, I don't think I'm who they think I am.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Who do you think they think you are?
11. ADAdam Duritz
  Um, a classic rock guy driving around in a pickup truck. Uh-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) Why would they think that?
13. ADAdam Duritz
  Like, going to drive-in movie theaters. Because that's this Americana dream vision of, like, we all sit around, you know, going to drive-ins and living some dream of a Springsteen song that Springsteen isn't even any part of, you know? And I, I would go on there and I'd be like, "Have you guys heard the first Justin Timberlake album? It's amazing. It's got, like, Timbaland and The Neptunes doing all the songs." And I would try and make this thing to tell them, like, "You should listen to this. It's brilliant music." And they just, they couldn't grasp the Justin Timberlake thing, 'cause in their mind, NSYNC was the guy at the water cooler.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
15. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? And so, like-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Captain Asshole.
17. ADAdam Duritz
  ... I would get in these huge fights with them, like, "You guys don't know shit about music. You're just like... you're in this little niche."
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Rigid.
19. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? "You like us," and I, I think that's very smart and intelligent.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
21. ADAdam Duritz
  It shows a lot of wisdom. But you're limited. You know, I'd get in all these fights with them.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  That's funny.
23. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's funny how, like, people are unwilling to try certain kinds of music because it has this ide- it has this, like, feeling to it. Like, that's not... that's... if you like that, it c- you can't be smart. You, you can't be cool. Like, this is-
25. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  This is shit music. You can't like this.
27. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, you know, the... it, you know, it came out of, like... uh, it did seem, at the time, like the thing ruining music was the boy bands. You know what I mean?
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
29. ADAdam Duritz
  It just seemed like-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
11:31 – 16:40
Comedy-world overlap: mutual friends, Bryan Callen bits, and USO tours
1. ADAdam Duritz
  ... 'cause you have... we have a lot of mutual friends. Like, guys that I, that I'd known for a long time that just love you.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Like who?
3. ADAdam Duritz
  Rock Jeff.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Jeff Ross? Okay.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  Uh, Saget Bob, for sure.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Love Jeff.
7. ADAdam Duritz
  And, uh-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Love him.
9. ADAdam Duritz
  Uh, oh, you know Bryan Callen, too?
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah, yeah. Love him, too.
11. ADAdam Duritz
  For the first time I ever met Bryan, we were... went to his friend's house. We had just gotten there. It w- it was in France. And we were walking out. Everybody's like, "Here, have a glass of wine. We're gonna go look at the sunset." It lives on this cliff by the Atlantic Ocean there, and we're walking out across the lawn. I had just met Bryan, like, an hour before that, and there's about eight of us, and we're walking across this lawn. Bryan is walking next to me, and he turns to me and he goes, "All right, now, uh..."... "You're gonna say to me, it's, it's really, 'Captain, it's really quiet out there.'" And I'm gonna say, "Maybe too quiet." And you're gonna say, "What do you think it is?" And then I'll take it from there."
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
13. NANarrator
  (laughs)
14. ADAdam Duritz
  I said, "What?" He goes, "All, all right. I'll repeat it." Like, uh-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
16. ADAdam Duritz
  ... "You're gonna say, 'Captain, it seems really quiet out there.'" I'll say, "Maybe too quiet." You say, "What do you think it is?" And I'll handle the rest of it."
17. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
18. ADAdam Duritz
  I'm like, "Uh, okay." He goes, "Yeah, wait till we get to the cliff." I get out there, we're in this group of people, everyone's looking at the sunset and my friend is talking about how if you, right at the moment before the sunset, there's this green light. It's, it's, uh, just a v- deeply spiritual, beautiful moment. And, uh, and I go, he goes, you know, I mean, Brian nods at me and I go, "It's pretty quiet out there, Captain." And he says, "Aye. Maybe too quiet." And I said, "Uh, what, what do you think it is?" He looks around and he goes, "Orca." (imitates echo)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
20. ADAdam Duritz
  (laughs)
21. NANarrator
  (laughs)
22. ADAdam Duritz
  Apparently, it's like this Richard Harris bit. Remember that movie Orca?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
24. ADAdam Duritz
  That kind of Jaws, Jaws ripoff that came after that?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26. ADAdam Duritz
  So, like, "Orca." (imitates echo)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  That sounds like Bryan Callen.
28. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah, absolutely.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  And then there was probably some gay stuff.
30. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah, I mean-
16:40 – 18:12
Why emotional songs connect: songwriting as a place to ‘bare’ feelings
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Your music is, uh, oftentimes so emotional. There's so much, so much feeling and pa-... Did you ever feel, like, almost like you, this is what you have to do because this is, like, the, your initial success was in this kind of music? Or has your music always sort of had that kind of emotional flavor to it?
2. ADAdam Duritz
  I think that was always the thing. I mean, you kinda wanna find something that you can bare to people. You know? Like, I mean b-a-r-e.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
4. ADAdam Duritz
  Like, really open. You know, the more you can open something up and let people in... And that's kinda the whole thing, I think, when we're trying to make a record, is you just kinda wanna make a world that people can climb into for a while and, like, feel something. You know, go from here to there with you, and...
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. ADAdam Duritz
  Um, so I, no, I always just kinda thought that was, um... You know, but sometimes, you- you know, there's, there's hope and joy in there too. But yeah, it's about feeling stuff, mostly. Uh, I think that was always kinda what it seemed like it was about, because I think I always had trouble, uh, feeling things with other people, you know, just in normal life. You know?
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
8. ADAdam Duritz
  But, uh, and I always liked music. I... And when I would listen to it, I, I, I think that's one of the things I loved about it, was that you could get lost in it and you could feel all the stuff, and they seemed to be able to communicate stuff to me when I was listening to a record. Um, you know, and I was a... I just couldn't figure out what to do with music when I was a kid 'cause, you know, I didn't... I just could sing, so I don't know what that means to high school musicals or something, but, uh, where's that going?
18:12 – 22:33
Becoming a songwriter: the first song in college and finding an identity
1. JRJoe Rogan
  When did you start? When did you start singing?
2. ADAdam Duritz
  I probably sang from birth. You know, like-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
4. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, you know, when I was a kid I, I could always sing and I liked singing, but I didn't know what to do with singing. You know, when I, when I was a freshman in college, like, my first term-... uh, I wrote a song, like, it was, like, within the first month and a half I was at school, I wrote my f- there was a, I was in chemistry class or something, and I started kind of thinking of this song in my head. And I wrote it down and was humming it to myself. And after class, I went back to my dorm 'cause there's a lounge with a piano across the hall from my room, and I went there, like, locked the door and sat there all day trying to figure out, humming stuff and trying to figure out what note that was. And then see if I could find a chord that worked with that note. I kind of knew how to make a major and a minor chord, you know, that's all I knew. Um, and I wrote a song. And as soon as I'd written that song, I, I was a songwriter.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow. So that was your first real attempt at creating a song, just out of nowhere in chemistry class?
6. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah. I mean, I think I'd written, like, lyrical stuff before, but I'd never actually tried to make it something I could play. And, uh, I just figured this thing out. And, you know, that's the thing when you're a kid, you don't, like, you're pretty undefined. You don't know what's going to go on with your life. You don't know what you're going to be, you know, like, the whole adulthood things, 'cause you've been pretty structured. You go to school. People tell you what to do when you're a kid and you go do it, you know. You do the best you can. You go to school, you go play a sport for fun, you know, and, you know, I'm still in that in college. You know, the adulthood thing seems really, like, confusing, like, what am, what am I going to do? How am I take care of myself? Uh, people get jobs, I guess. And then, then people, do people tell you what to do for the rest of your life after that? That doesn't seem very good. Um, and then I wrote... Literally, I mean, I wrote this song, and it was like a light going off in my head or coming on. I just, from that moment on, I was like, "Oh, I'm a songwriter." I don't know how the fuck to do that or how to like-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
8. ADAdam Duritz
  I'm not sure how to make a life being a songwriter, but I am a songwriter. I have to figure that out. You know, I kind of knew what I was going to do before any of my friends. I didn't know how to do it, but like, it was just like, like something switch went on. As soon as I did it, I knew who I was kind of in a way that I had never known before. Um...
9. JRJoe Rogan
  What did you think you were going to do for a living before that moment?
10. ADAdam Duritz
  I don't know, man.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  You just were trying to figure it out?
12. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah. My, my dad's a doctor. My mom is too now, but uh...
13. JRJoe Rogan
  What were you going to school for?
14. ADAdam Duritz
  I thought I'd be a writer or something. I liked English. I, I liked writing. Um, I didn't really know. You know, I was, uh, I'd done for the first couple of years, I was a women's studies major 'cause I ended up in this class, and it was really interesting. I was kind of blown away by it. Um, but I don't know, you know, that taking care... I mean, that stuff you do in school, you know, fields of study and things.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
16. ADAdam Duritz
  You know, you could go on school for a while, but-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  But you had never been in a band or anything until that moment?
18. ADAdam Duritz
  I had when I was a kid, like, when I was like 13, I was in a band. We played at friends' bar mitzvahs and shit.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah. (laughs)
20. ADAdam Duritz
  We just did, like, Beatles and- You know, we... Our parents told each of us we could get one songbook, so we just bought The Beatles, The Stones, and Led Zeppelin 'cause they had the most shit in the book, you know.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
22. ADAdam Duritz
  They were the thicker books. But that's just, like, cover songs when you're 13 or 14.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right.
24. ADAdam Duritz
  Uh, no, my first band was still a few years away, but I, I wrote every day from that point on. I just was obsessed with, like... 'Cause all of a sudden, I had this way where I could, all the stuff I'd been feeling and thinking and, like, you know, I had all this stuff that I felt like inside me, but, you know, you're not... I, I felt kind of plain when I was talking to people.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
26. ADAdam Duritz
  Didn't really... I felt like a pretty average dude and not really impressive in the way I, I wanted to be, you know, and, uh, not special in any way. And I was- I thought I was supposed to be, you know.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Thought you were supposed to be special.
28. ADAdam Duritz
  But then I wrote a song and I could, you know, then it was like, "Oh, I can communicate all this stuff." You know, uh, pretty rudimentary back then. But even then, it was like, well, for me it was real powerful, like, to play a song. People could feel things. All of a sudden, all this stuff inside me had a place to go. And that was, that was big, you know.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Isn't that interesting? It's like kind of everybody feels like somewhere inside of them is something special.
30. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
22:33 – 29:26
The grind of creative careers: bands vs. stand-up and the fear of bombing
1. ADAdam Duritz
  Well, I think they also don't realize how much it takes to do things like that. Like it, it is dedication, you know. You're gonna... You're gonna play music, you want to go on stage and do comedy, it's not going to be that good at first. It's going to be a struggle. There's a lot of people who are better at it. And those people, you know, it's a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of risk. Thinking about doing a job that's really hard to support yourself at. You know, especially if you want to work in the arts. You know, like that's... It's a minuscule, it's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that's so small that it's like a number that doesn't exist. People who can support themselves doing the arts, any kind of art, you know.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. ADAdam Duritz
  And then you, you know, you're gonna have to get, if you want to play a musician, you got to get in a band, you're going to fight with your friends 'cause it's not fun. It's not a hobby anymore. You know, it's different. Uh, it's satisfying, but fun is like a very small term for what it means to do this sort of thing, you know. Fun doesn't quite cut it.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I've always felt like a band was probably the hardest thing because not only do you have to figure your shit out, but you have to make sure that the other people in the band figure their shit out too. And you all have to be dedicated and professional and show up on time and be disciplined and be creative and also work together. So you have to be cooperative and you have to be understanding and you have to like figure out the ego dance and who's putting what and where and who's adding spice to the soup and ugh.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  I mean, any kind of cooperative artistic thing like that, that is brutal. It is really hard, but there's no way it's the heart- I mean, I, to me it's funny because to me it's always been comedy because like I have friends who do it and you watch what it takes to be on stage. I am not dependent on anybody in the audience to play a show. Like it just does not matter. I'm glad they're there. I really am. It's great. I hope they cheer really loud, but I could play a great show.... either way. But like-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  In an empty room?
7. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah. I mean-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
9. ADAdam Duritz
  ... you know, or a room that doesn't get it. I'm still gonna play a show-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
11. ADAdam Duritz
  ... and it's still gonna be good. Man, like, I watch Jeff sometimes, especially l- lately, 'cause when him and Dave are doing that thing, they just, like... It doesn't seem like there's any preparation. They're just kind of winging it sometimes.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  They're just riffing. Yeah, yeah.
13. ADAdam Duritz
  And, like, that's complete freestyle improvisation. But either way, even if it's just all written material, you're still riding... It's like surfing an audience, you know?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
15. ADAdam Duritz
  Like, that's terrifying and a dependent, and dependent in a way, 'cause, you know, if you have the success with the moment, it builds to the next moment, to the next moment in a way that we don't need.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
17. ADAdam Duritz
  But like, as a comedian, man, it's like, it is such a, a tightrope to walk with, you know, dealing with Heckler. Everything that goes into that shit is just like-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  I went to an open mic night last night. Yeah, it was wild. I, I hadn't been to an open mic night in a while, and it was, it was interesting to watch because there was maybe six or seven audience members and maybe 20 comedians in the audience, so they're mostly just kind of practicing talking into a microphone and, you know, just trying to work it out. And you're just seeing... You're seeing, like, single-celled organisms try to divide and, and become complicated life forms. And you can see, like, the sort of clunkiness to the idea, 'cause, you know, a lot of the folks that were on stage last night probably had only been on stage a couple of times, or maybe it was their first time, and you could see it, you know? It's-
19. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  And I was like, "Wow, this is wild." It's-
21. ADAdam Duritz
  That's really cool, though. I mean, like-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. ADAdam Duritz
  ... you could see, like, the genesis of things, you know?
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
25. ADAdam Duritz
  Somebody, like, developing something. Someone doesn't have their material there yet, but they've got a thing, you know?
26. JRJoe Rogan
  But it seems so far, like, the road... Like, you're... It's like a person who lands on Plymouth Rock and you're gonna walk to San Francisco. Like, yeah, it can be done. People have done it. It can be done. But, oh, those first steps. You have so many steps.
27. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  It's such a far walk.
29. ADAdam Duritz
  It is far.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
29:26 – 40:02
Early disaster gigs and a surprise comedy win at the Friars Club
1. ADAdam Duritz
  Oh, yeah, I remember one, the first... I always remember the first gig 'cause I don't, I don't know that we've played this town since then. It was, uh... Was it Lexington, Kentucky? I'm trying to remember what... It was like a, a Southeastern college town. Ah, I'm spacing on... We were opening for Cracker, and it was this club, and it was upstairs was the, the club part of it. And the stage was one of those ones that's in the corner like a triangle, like, comes across the corner. And, uh, there's just, uh... The audience is all out the rest of the club. It's lengthwise, and the stage is in the corner over here. Uh, and there's no, like, back... The backstage is, is up near the front door, and you gotta, like... They just kept, like, a border around the club of people, so you could walk, and you have to walk around everybody to get up to the stage. And so we get up there to open the show, and the, the monitors are busted. Like, the tweeter's blown out on the monitors, so it's just like (imitates distorted music) the whole time, you know? And it's like, just, you can't hear anything, and I'm trying to sing. It's before we had in-ears, you know, and, uh, my voice is already wrecked from the first year of touring 'cause I had never sung that much, you know. I'm really tired, and so we, we played, and I'm, I'm...... we were terrible. Like, I mean, terrible.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
3. ADAdam Duritz
  And, uh, and... (laughs) 'Cause it was just so bad. I mean, later on that night, Cracker got on stage and, uh, they were pretty good, but they hated it so much that, like, he stuck his guitar through that monitor after a while. 'Cause you couldn't hear anything. It was just like, "What, what... You're a club, man. Fix the goddamn monitor."
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  You know? "Like, the horns are all busted." So anyways, we get done, this particularly terrible set. I mean... And we do a lot of improvisation on stage, too. We're making whole shit up, which doesn't get any better, by the way, when you, you can't hear anything and you're-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
7. ADAdam Duritz
  ... when you're sucking. We're still trying it, and it's still just like... Oh, just, you know. Anything would've been better than what we did. So, man, w- the set ends, and, and it's just silence, man. There's no booing or anything, but... Nobody's clapping. Like, nobody's clapping.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
9. ADAdam Duritz
  There's just nothing. There was just fucking nothing happening in there. It's just like, like, like nothing had happened.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
11. ADAdam Duritz
  Like it... Like, they were just... Everyone's just kind of looking at us like maybe we're going to play another song, I don't know. They don't really want us to, but they're not trying to encourage us, and so we just like... I remember some of the other guys had to grab their stuff, I kind of walked down off the stage and, you know, around, down the whole side of the crowd, across the back to the little dressing room. Silence, just people looking at me.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
13. ADAdam Duritz
  Just like, "Fuck."
14. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
15. ADAdam Duritz
  It was just so fucking humiliating, just the worst. I, I've never forgotten it, except I, I guess I have forgotten where it was, but... I think it was Lexington. But I don't know. But it was just the worst fucking show, and just, just the utter silence, though. The, the... Like, they were confused as to what we were doing.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
17. ADAdam Duritz
  Like, like... As if, like... It would've been confusing to them if we'd kept playing, it was weird that we stopped. Uh, whatever we were doing, they didn't really get it. I didn't... I mean, I don't under-... Understandably. It was just fucking... O- one time, like, w-... I came off a tour and I had, I had messed up my knee. I'd scraped up my knee early in the tour and it kept getting infected, and I ended up having, like, a staph infection inside my knee. It was really bad. So I got off stage at the last gig and I had to go in the... for surgery the next day. And, uh, they, you know, opened my knee up and cleaned it out, and then, uh, they released me later that day. And it was the day that Jeff was releasing, uh... He h- he wrote a book, like... I can't remember what it's called. Ro-... You Only Roast the Ones you Love, maybe?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. ADAdam Duritz
  And he, he had, uh, he was having, like, a, a... I don't know what you'd call it. A book release party, I guess, at the Friars Club, 'cause he was real excited and he'd wanted me to come, and I was like... I'd just gotten out of the hospital, um, that, like... late that morning, and I was... But I felt okay, you know? Um, and it was all sewn up, so, uh, I... You know, I was a little high from the drugs, but I, I was okay. So I, I put on, like, a tux, tails, but I, I couldn't wear the pants 'cause I had this huge bandage on my knee, so I just put some shorts on and nice shoes, too, and I, I got a cane, and I, and I went to the Friars Club to this thing, to... I wanted to be there to support Jeff, you know? And so he comes... He's up on the, like, the dais up there. N- it's, like, in one of the rooms there, not, not a stage, but he's up on there talking, thanking some people, and he comes down. Uh, he, they... He got me a chair. It's just a room full of comics and he got me a chair so I could sit down near the front. Um, everyone else is standing just 'cause I, you know, I had surgery. And he comes down, uh, and
20. NANarrator
  (laughs)
21. ADAdam Duritz
  I wanna really thank my friend Adam, who came with me, and, you know, we went on this trip a little while ago, and he's just a... He's a good friend. And he hands me the mic and for some reason instead of just saying, you know, "Congratulations, Jeff," or whatever, I took the mic out of his hand and I walked up on the stage to, like, the podium, put it in the mic thing, and I... 'Cause I don't know, some part of me thought, "I'm at the Friars Club and I should make a speech for Jeff's thing."
22. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
23. ADAdam Duritz
  (laughs) But by the time I got up there and put the mic in, I realized, "What am I doing here?"
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, no. (laughs)
25. ADAdam Duritz
  Like, I, I'm like, "I don't know what the fuck to do." I'm, I'm just... I, I, I just-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Ugh.
27. ADAdam Duritz
  ... like, sort of looked at them and I said, "So I peed on my girlfriend earlier today."
28. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
29. ADAdam Duritz
  (laughs) 'Cause I... It, it had happened, you know, like, when they finished the surgery, they, you know, they gave me this epidural and they numb your whole lower half of your body, so I didn't know what was going on, and, uh, it... They... I'd come out of it and they were... my, you know, girlfriend was like, "How are you?" I'm like, "I don't know, I feel weird. I feel pretty good. Uh, uh, am I, am I bleeding down here? Am I wet?" And, and, and she reaches, like, under the skirt to check me out, and she's like, "Uh, I, I just, I think you're, you're peeing, that's all. You're just... You're peeing yourself right now." I'm like, "W- well, how do you know?" And she goes, "C- you're... 'Cause you're peeing on me right now. It's just..."
30. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
40:02 – 51:21
Martial arts detour: taekwondo habits, boxing training, and MMA talk
1. ADAdam Duritz
  You did taekwondo too. You were the champion in taekwondo, right? I, yeah, I won a bunch of tournaments, yeah. It's what I was... That's all I did when I was 15, from 15 to, like, 21, 22. That's the martial art that I did when I was a kid, like, up... I must, I must have been pretty young. I was, like, Texas and Denver, so I was, like, seven and eight. It's a good martial art for kids. Yeah. Teaches them discipline and stuff. It was... I remember it being fun, but (laughs) it, uh, it got me hit... Well, you know, year... Uh, like, I don't know when I started doing that. In like 2002 maybe. I started boxing, you know. I started boxing with this boxing trainer in LA just to get in shape. I was really out of shape. A- and then he would come on the road with us for a while, and we would, like, train with the whole band in the mornings usually, and then he and I, after sound check, we would do, like, ten rounds, you know, at, you know, wherever we were at the gig and just exercise in the afternoon. Right. So we'd do it for a while and, uh... But, like early on when we were doing this, you know, he was doing some stuff where, like, I was just working defensive stuff and he threw, like, a low hook at me, and I, I did this thing. You know, I blocked it with my arm. And he's like, "What's that?" And I was like, "I don't know. It's a... I just blocked it." And he goes, "Don't do that. You'll get ki..." "Well, why?" He's like, "Don't drop your hands when you're boxing. It's a bad habit." Like, "Okay," you know. And then, uh, did a low, and he threw a low hook, and I, you know, just dropped my arm down to block it. And he goes, "Where is this block coming from? What is this kind of thing?" (laughs) He's like... He goes... Uh, "Did you do taekwondo when you were a kid?" I was like, "Uh, yeah, I did. Weird. Well, how'd you know that?" He goes, "I think it's a... I think that's a taekwondo block." Yeah. "But that's, you know, like... I, I think it works in taekwondo because of the nature of the, the rules, but, like, you don't want to do that boxing. Don't drop your hands boxing." 'Cause I go, "Well, what, what's the big deal?" He goes, "Well, 'cause you're gonna get hit, you know. You're gonna get hit in the head, too. Don't drop your hands, especially not your right hand, you know. That's where hooks come from, that side." And I was like, "Well, I, I mean, I don't know what the big... I blocked your punch." He goes, "Don't, don't do that." Like, "Don't..." Uh, don't say that (laughs) . "Don't say that." And I was like, "All right, all right." So we do it a little more, and, and, uh, he threw a low hook again, and I went like this, and he just, mm, whack. Hit me in the head. Not hard the first time. And I... He was like, "Taekwondo." And I was like, "No, fuck you, man." So I just go and did it again. I did it again. I could not break myself of the habit. And every time I, like... He would just, like, whip, whip. Hit me in the head. Whip, whip. Hit me in the head. And every time, he would just go... Taekwondo. I don't know. Well, you know what it is, is a lot of martial arts, a lot of, especially in the old days before the UFC came around-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  ... a lot of them were closed systems, right? So if you were doing taekwondo, you would only do it against people who are doing taekwondo.
3. ADAdam Duritz
  Right.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  So you didn't know that the things you were doing left you susceptible to certain techniques from other sports. So, like, in MMA, you don't ever see anybody blocking like that, because they've realized, like, first of all, if you block a kick like that, you break your arm. And second of all, you do leave yourself open to punches. So now people block, when they block kicks, they try to block with two arms.
5. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  If someone's kicking high, you try to block with two arms and you, you try to get as much as your, of your body outta the way. But you don't do this, like taekwondo style.
7. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  It doesn't really work. But in taekwondo, it kinda worked 'cause it was a closed system.
9. ADAdam Duritz
  Right, that's what he was trying to tell me is like-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
11. ADAdam Duritz
  ... this is something that worked.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Boxers never do that.
13. ADAdam Duritz
  You have a habit there 'cause that's the one thing you learn when you're younger-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
15. ADAdam Duritz
  ... so don't do it. It's like, don't drop your hands, like.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  It also happens when people get hit in the legs a lot and they get in pain.
17. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Like when a low kick starts coming, they try to, like, stop it with their arm 'cause, just 'cause it hurts so much. And then someone sets them up and pretends to throw a low kick. There's a thing called a question mark kick. You ever seen that?
19. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah. No, but I know what you're talking about.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like it looks like you're gonna kick someone low, and then it turns around and, and it kicks them high.
21. ADAdam Duritz
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  It either, it either looks like it's gonna go up the front or it looks like it's gonna go low on the outside, and then it comes around. There's a guy named, uh, Glaube Feitosa who used to fight in K-1. He had, like, the most beautiful question mark kick. And they, they, they started calling it the Brazilian kick because he was so good at it. He, he, he had these crazy hips. He would, he... Like, if you watch him do it, it almost doesn't make sense. Like, his foot would be coming straight at you, and then outta nowhere, it would do a full question mark and chop down. It's, let's see if we can find it. Glaube Feitosa, uh, KO. But so much, like, question mark kick was always the name of it. It was, that was a traditional. It was either called fake front kick round kick or has beco- or it was called, or, or it was called question mark kick. But then with Feitosa, a lot of people started calling it the Brazilian kick because he was so good at it. But it was weird how good he was. Like his hips, I can't do what he does. Like it's a... He's got a weird hip flexibility.
23. ADAdam Duritz
  Oh, there it is. Okay.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  You got something?
25. ADAdam Duritz
  I couldn't spell his name right. Hold on.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's a weird one. He's Brazilian. Um, but he, uh, he would literally, when the, when the kick impact, impacted, it would be coming down like a hammer. Watch him. Watch this. That's not a good one. That's a hard one to tell. See if you can see it again, though. Watch. Yeah, do, it does... Th- watch this. See that?
27. ADAdam Duritz
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, it whips around.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Come on, that's crazy. It's, you-
29. ADAdam Duritz
  It looks like it's coming up under his arm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. See-
51:21 – 1:25:32
Idols, fame, and LA culture: Mick Fleetwood, Springsteen awkwardness, and leaving LA
1. ADAdam Duritz
  (laughs) Yeah, I had this, uh... When they know you, like, man, that's a-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. ADAdam Duritz
  It's cool. I wa-, we were on a plane once. We were, we flew in to LA, and then we were cha-, we changed planes and we were going to Hawaii for, like, a corporate gig or something. And I was with my tour manager, and he was sitting across the aisle, and I'm on the window seat over here. And this guy, I wasn't looking, I was looking out the window. Out of the corner of my eye, this really tall guy comes and puts some stuff on the seat and then goes up to the bathroom. And I turn back around as he's walking away.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
5. ADAdam Duritz
  I see Tom, my tour manager, and he's like, "Is that Mick Fleetwood? I think that's Mick Fleetwood."
6. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
7. ADAdam Duritz
  I was like, "Wow, really?" And I was li-, and I got really nervous 'cause I thought, "Oh, it's gonna be really uncomfortable. I got a five-hour flight ahead of me. Uh, I'm not gonna know what to say. Uh, I don't, I don't know what to do. This is really weird." You know, I get, I get kind of anxious about that shit. I'm not really very good at talking to my idols at all. Um, and th-, he comes back from the bathroom, and, you know, as, as he's walking up, it's, it's fucking Mick Fleetwood. You know?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
9. ADAdam Duritz
  And he, as he comes back, he picks his stuff up off the thing, he goes, "Adam, hello." And I was like, "Mick."
10. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
11. ADAdam Duritz
  He goes... No, I'm Adam." He goes, "I know. Hello." (laughs) I said, "How are you?" And, uh, he sat down, and then he told me stories for four hours. It was awesome.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
13. ADAdam Duritz
  He told me history of Fleetwood Mac stories. Talked about, like, it was like a fucking class in rock and roll history. It was the coolest flight of my life. He was just so nice. And he, the next day he, uh, we exchanged phone numbers. He came to our show, at this corporate show. I remember 'cause, uh, like, whoever was at this company, Joe Torre's, uh, daughter worked at the company too, and-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Joe Torre, the comic?
15. ADAdam Duritz
  No, Joe Torre, uh, the Yankee manager.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
17. ADAdam Duritz
  And so he, he came too, like, 'cause his daughter loved us, and he brought her 'cause he was involved with the company or something. But Mick Fleetwood and Joe Torre came backstage afterwards.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
19. ADAdam Duritz
  And then Mick just went to the bar with us and hung out at the hotel and talked to the other guys 'cause I really, my guitar player, Immer, is just a massive early Fleetwood Mac fan, Peter Green, uh, and it's his favorite song, you know? And, like, so he was gonna flip out, and he wasn't there with us. And I really wanted him to meet Mick, you know? And it was just like, he still texts me to this day, you know? Just hope, "Happy birthday" or "Merry Christmas," just wanted to say hi, you know?
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
21. ADAdam Duritz
  It's been about 10 years now, and it was just like, it was the gr-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
23. ADAdam Duritz
  I mean, just to have like, he knew who I was, and he spent the flight chatting and telling me stories about rock and roll and shit.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
25. ADAdam Duritz
  It was fucking awesome. You know, like-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  That's amazing.
27. ADAdam Duritz
  'Cause I, I'm not really good in those situations. I, I have fled from people that I love.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
29. ADAdam Duritz
  You know, I, I...
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Just been panic?