Joe Rogan Experience #1662 - Tom Papa

Comedian and writer Tom Papa is the host of the popular podcast "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa", and the co-host, along with Fortune Feimster, of the Netflix radio program "What a Joke with Papa and Fortune." It can be heard daily on Sirius XM.

Joe RoganhostTom Papaguest

Jun 27, 20242h 47mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,047 words

0:00 – 2:29
Nixon, David Frost, and Hunter S. Thompson stories as an icebreaker
1. NANarrator
  (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)
3. TPTom Papa
  ... Frost was interviewing Nixon, so he made that movie about it.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah?
5. TPTom Papa
  It was, like, the big thing for David Frost. He got Nixon to, like, to actually break about Watergate. And the way Nixon tried to, uh, the way that Nixon tried (laughs) to throw him before the interview, they're just getting ready and all the cameras and the stuff. He goes, "Did you fornicate last night?" (laughs) David Frost was like, "Why is the president," (laughs) , "the former president of the United States..." He's like, "N- no." (laughs)
6. JRJoe Rogan
  So he tried to rattle him before the interview?
7. TPTom Papa
  He tried to rattle him before the interview. He was so, Nixon was so skillful and, "Did you fornicate last night?" (laughs) What?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Is that skillful though?
9. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) It kind of fucked him up a little bit. (laughs) He was like...
10. JRJoe Rogan
  It seems like a Hail Mary.
11. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, well it didn't... Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
13. TPTom Papa
  He was, he was at the end of his game.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you ever hear the time when, uh, Nixon was, uh, riding... They got a ride. Hunter S. Thompson took a ride with Nixon to, I believe, to the airport in his limo.
15. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) Uh-huh.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  "As long as you don't talk politics."
17. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  He's like... So they just talked about football the whole way.
19. TPTom Papa
  Was he president at the time?
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. He was president.
21. TPTom Papa
  Oh my God.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  I know. That's how weird the world was back then.
23. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  A fucking wackadoo like Hunter Thompson could get-
25. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  ... (laughs) in a limousine with the President of the United States and, uh-
27. TPTom Papa
  Hitch a ride.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I think Nixon respected his football knowledge. 'Cause Hunter was a football fanatic.
29. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And so he said Nixon was the real deal. He said Nixon knew about all these, like, uh, draft picks from colleges and-
2:29 – 3:45
Political caricatures, media bias, and why leaders become (or avoid) punchlines
1. JRJoe Rogan
  See, it's a problem with political cartoonists today is that they're all liberal, right? And most cartoonists are liberal and you're gonna leave Biden alone, which is very unfortunate.
2. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
3. JRJoe Rogan
  'Cause he really... (laughs) It should be indicative of the dilemma that we find ourselves in in 2021.
4. TPTom Papa
  Right. Who's ever the guy-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. TPTom Papa
  ... is the, is, is the butt of the joke-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
8. TPTom Papa
  ... or is the, the focus.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  But, but this is a very unique dilemma 'cause we're willing to overlook, like, some serious problems with this guy-
10. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... because we hated Trump so much.
12. TPTom Papa
  Right. Exactly. Oh, I know. My nephew, my nephews are, uh, really, really left. They went to, like, Hampshire College and they're just like, it couldn't get further over there. And, uh, love them all, but they were just super left... And, and in our family group text, every once in a while, they'll send a thing about, uh, about Biden going too far with Israel or, like, uh, having a bad record at the, at the border. And no one wants to deal... No one wants to discuss it at, in the family at all 'cause they're so exhausted from Trump all those years. (laughs)
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
14. TPTom Papa
  They're like, "We know he's not perfect, but at least he's not that."
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
16. TPTom Papa
  And I feel like that's where the nation is. It's just like, "I know, I know, but he's-"
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, some of the nation's there.
18. TPTom Papa
  "... not, he's not, he's, he's not tormenting us."
3:45 – 5:09
Biden gaffes and the collapse of a shared ‘center’ in news
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Some of the nation's there, but the other, uh, the rest of the nation is like, it's eroding faith in the institution of the news. Because they're like, "How come you fucking guys aren't paying attention to this? How is he allowed to say all this crazy shit?"
2. TPTom Papa
  Well that's-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Like he's been saying ridiculous shit. Do you, do you... Have you paid attention to the gaffes and things he said?
4. TPTom Papa
  No.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  About... What was the one recently about Black people and businesses? You know, because Black people can't get loans and Black people... It's like, whoa. It was like so-
6. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  ... such a blanket statement.
8. TPTom Papa
  Right, right, right.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Like he, he says things sometimes like, uh, like, uh-
10. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... uh, like-
12. TPTom Papa
  Come on, man.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  ... what, what was the statement? That poor kids are j... They, they're just as smart as white kids.
14. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Like something along those lines.
16. TPTom Papa
  Right.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Remember that?
18. TPTom Papa
  Yes, I do. It was-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  That's like, hey-
20. TPTom Papa
  ... something like that.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... Grandpa-
22. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  ... get the fuck off the microphone.
24. TPTom Papa
  I know. But at least he's not just tormenting us nonstop. But you're right. I mean, there should be... Uh, look, this is why there's a real problem is that there's nobody that just takes the center and just deals with news.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
26. TPTom Papa
  It's all team based, team based.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's also woke talking points that they feed him.
28. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  And, you know, y- y- you, you p-
30. TPTom Papa
  And then he butchers them. (laughs)
5:09 – 7:09
Tribalism after the Cold War: missing a common enemy and turning inward
1. TPTom Papa
  That was the... That's the, that's the most disheartening part of all of it is just that... It's almost like we don't... I was thinking the other day, like, when we grew up, we had Russia.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
3. TPTom Papa
  And you had Rocky movies and Reagan was going after him and they're go... And Stallone was going after (laughs) Drago-
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
5. TPTom Papa
  ... whatever his name was. Like, we had this enemy that we all could focus on.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
7. TPTom Papa
  And now we have an absence of that. And we're looking at each other as the enemy-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yep.
9. TPTom Papa
  ... which has never happened in our lifetime. Ever. It's so horrible that w- that people are, from different parts of our country are hating on each other. It's, it's... I've never seen it.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's exacerbated by Trump.
11. TPTom Papa
  It was.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Even with Obama in office, it was never that bad.
13. TPTom Papa
  No.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Even the people that were ridiculous with Obama, like, do you remember when, um-... I guess it was Fox News or whatever con- conservatives. They were, uh, furious that Obama had a, a tan suit on.
15. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. That was the big controversy.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
17. TPTom Papa
  That was the big controversy. That, and when he fist-bumped his wife. (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Isn't that amazing?
19. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Imagine those two things being controversial now-
21. TPTom Papa
  I ... It would be.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  ... in the wake of Trump.
23. TPTom Papa
  I know.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  So, like, Trump was so ... He exacerbated everything, exaggerated everything. Everything got so, like, over the top that people on the left haven't calmed down yet. You're like, "Remember when he got out of the office?" Like, as soon as, uh, uh, Biden get in, and they're like, "We're gonna make a list of anybody who supported Trump, and you're never gonna work again."
25. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  "You're never gonna work again. Your kids are gonna starve."
27. TPTom Papa
  It was PTSD.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
29. TPTom Papa
  It was really.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7:09 – 10:01
Post-COVID confusion: masks, uneven reopening, and cultural whiplash
1. JRJoe Rogan
  The thing is, w- like, right now, we're in a confused state.
2. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, a post-COVID confused state where things aren't totally normal yet.
4. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  And everyone's like, "Hey, hey."
6. TPTom Papa
  It's weird. It's definitely weird.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  "What's happening? Are we okay?"
8. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, I know.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Not quite yet, right?
10. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. No, it's really true. It's like this, uh ... It's like fits and starts. And it's like-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. TPTom Papa
  ... even when I'm coming here, I was like, "Oh, this is the land of no masks."
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
14. TPTom Papa
  And I went into two places and was told to put on a mask (laughs) , and I was like, "Oh, we're not ... Okay, so you- by your rules-"
15. JRJoe Rogan
  No, Austin, Austin people wear masks.
16. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  But when you get outside of Austin-
18. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and you go to, like, Round Rock, and you go ... Like, they don't give a fuck. Pflugerville-
20. TPTom Papa
  Right.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... they don't give a fuck.
22. TPTom Papa
  Oh, the people in Pflugerville.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  You go out that way-
24. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you go out to, like, Dripping Springs, they don't give a fuck.
26. TPTom Papa
  Right, right.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  There's no more COVID for them.
28. TPTom Papa
  Right.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. They, they gave up ... But by the way, it was like that, like, six months ago there.
30. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
10:01 – 23:13
Fauci emails, masks, and the lab-leak narrative—what changed and why it matters
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, did you read the Fauci emails?
2. TPTom Papa
  Yes.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  The Freedom of Information emails? That's really crazy. Because-
4. TPTom Papa
  Well-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  ... he ... First of all, he's admitting in these emails that masks don't work. He's-
6. TPTom Papa
  Was he?
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes. Yeah, he talked about it. Talked about it openly.
8. TPTom Papa
  Oh, wait. I didn't know that part.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
10. TPTom Papa
  I knew ... I only ... I, I thought you were gonna talk about the, uh-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, that too. But here's the thing-
12. TPTom Papa
  ... the crazy thing.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Wh- part of the email was ... Look, part of the mask conversation with Fauci has always been that at the beginning of the pandemic, he said masks didn't work.
14. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  But then he said the reason he said that is because there wasn't enough masks for first responders and hospital staff, and he didn't ... He wanted to make sure that the supply wasn't diminished.
16. TPTom Papa
  Right.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  So, he said that he didn't tell the truth.
18. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Right? Okay. But in these emails, he's also ... These are private emails.
20. TPTom Papa
  Right.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  He's saying masks don't work. He's-
22. TPTom Papa
  For real?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes. He's saying they're, they're, they're not effective for what you ... Outside of a hospital setting-
24. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... that these masks, like, for personal use, the, the kind of cloth masks and-
26. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... paper masks that everybody's wearing, they're, they're not effective. They're not ... They can't ... Exactly what did he say? Let's, let's pull it up-
28. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  ... so we can get exactly what he said. But that's not even the big part. The big part is he's talking about gain-of-function research in the Wuhan lab, and he's concerned about it, and thinking whether or not they had paused that and whether they're still doing that. And he's trying to connect the gain-of-function research in the Wuhan lab with this COVID breakout-
30. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
23:13 – 26:46
Nature vs. lab origin fears: zoonotic spillover, livestock risks, and prion nightmares
1. TPTom Papa
  Well, that's why during this whole debate of, like, whether it was the lab or the bat, I would rather it be that it came from the lab. Like, the idea that, so there's just a bat that's ... And then one person eats it or kisses it on the lips, and now we're all ... (laughs) Like, you know what I mean? That's so random to me. It was like, the lab thing I could get my head around. It's like, okay, somebody's screwing up and they were (laughs) go through the thing without being sprayed down. Okay, that's manmade. You expect there to be mistakes. But if there's just, like, some weird wombat that bites some kid on the ankle and then we're all screwed, that is terrifying. I'd much rather it be the lab story.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm. Interesting.
3. TPTom Papa
  Right?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
5. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  No. No, because the lab ones, they kinda can see how they jump. Or r- or rather the, uh, nature spillover ones.
7. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  They can kinda see how they jump. They see, like, intermediate steps. They see how it leaps from one animal. Like, the idea was that it went from a bat to a pangolin-
9. TPTom Papa
  Right.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and a pangolin to a person.
11. TPTom Papa
  And they ... But you don't, but you didn't know until we're all screwed up and people are having ... Not able to breathe.... and then that, that it came from the bat. Like, if we knew beforehand, "Hey, the bats are really bad," then we can go out and kill the bats. But we don't know that-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  What?
13. TPTom Papa
  ... beforehand. (laughs)
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Kill the bats?
15. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) Well, you know what I'm s-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Nobody's saying we're gonna kill the bats.
17. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) Well, we should if they're ... If-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Should we exterminate the bats?
19. TPTom Papa
  I, yeah, I'm for, yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
21. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, I think they're really worried about livestock. That's what they're worried about the most, right? Like, these swine flus and avian flus, those are the scary ones. And those are the ones, uh, that have, like, traditionally been, like, super deadly. The- those have come from livestock, a lot of them, a lot of the pandemics.
23. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  That, that's where the- they jump, they jump from-
25. TPTom Papa
  Mad cow disease and-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  No, no, mad cow disease is a totally different thing.
27. TPTom Papa
  Ah, it was.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Mad cow disease, you have to actually eat the meat 'cause it's a prion disease.
29. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  So what it is, it's like brain tissue that these cows are eating.
26:46 – 32:41
Lyme disease, Plum Island speculation, and why people crave neat explanations
1. JRJoe Rogan
  How about ticks?
2. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) How about that Lyme disease?
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Fucking Lyme disease.
4. TPTom Papa
  Oh my God, I have a friend that has had Lyme disease. He, it has wrecked-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah.
6. TPTom Papa
  No exaggeration, it has wrecked the last 10 years of his life.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. TPTom Papa
  He's been, like, in a hungover fog-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
10. TPTom Papa
  ... for 10 years.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, Lyme disease is horrible.
12. TPTom Papa
  Horrible.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  And there's real speculation that Lyme disease was actually a weaponized disease that got out.
14. TPTom Papa
  Ah, geez.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you know that?
16. TPTom Papa
  No, I didn't know that.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
18. TPTom Papa
  Who did that?
19. JRJoe Rogan
  CIA. (clears throat) Here it goes.
20. TPTom Papa
  Ah, geez.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  "1981, a scientist who was studying Rocky Mountain spotted fever-"
22. TPTom Papa
  Uh-huh.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  "... also caused by a tick bite, began to study Lyme disease. This scientist, Willie Burgdorfer-"
24. TPTom Papa
  I don't trust him.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  "... found the connection between the deer tick and the disease. He discovered that the bacterium called spirochaete carried by ticks was causing Lyme. The medical community honored Dr. Burgdorfer's discovery in 1982 by name..." blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
26. TPTom Papa
  '82?
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay. "With extensive backgrounds on Lyme patients and scientific discov- discoveries that ensued, doctors began to use several antibiotics to treat the disease..." da, da, da, da, da. What is the CIA part about it?
28. NANarrator
  Guys, I, I jumped the gun, sorry. Sorry, guys.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Give me the CIA part about it.
30. NANarrator
  Um.
32:41 – 36:18
Variants, vaccines, and Rogan’s core theme: immune health and obesity risk
1. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) I, it's, isn't it amazing how the fear of words like that, like okay, so my family's vaccinated. We're all good. And I'm like, "I am good to go." I'm going to The Comedy Store, I'm just like, I don't, I don't even have a mask in my car. And my wife's like, "You might wanna be a little more cautious." And I'm like, "Why? This was the plan. I got, I'm, I'm good. I followed the rules, I did the things, I'm good to go." She's like, "But the variants..." And it's like, what do you know from the variants? Like, what do you mean the variants? Like that's, but it, I understand it because we're, you're locked onto the fearful words that they've kept spilling over us for all this time, and maybe it will turn out that a variant comes out of... But, not now. There's no variant that-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  There's variants.
3. TPTom Papa
  There's no, but there's no variant that is, um, able to perpetrate the vaccine.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Incorrect.
5. TPTom Papa
  It is not true. Yes.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Incorrect. Incorrect. The South African variant-
7. TPTom Papa
  Joe.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... 100%. People that, people that were vaccinated-
9. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  ... or, or people that, it was either people that are vaccinated or people that had the antibodies from the original COVID encountered the South African variant.
11. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  And it was almost like they had no protection at all.
13. TPTom Papa
  You know, sometimes I think you make things up just to scare me.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  That's what Fauci said. I'm repeating exactly what he said.
15. TPTom Papa
  But we're not supposed to believe Fauci said.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh, I believe some of the things he said.
17. TPTom Papa
  Ah, come on. Now I'm really confused.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  He's an infectious disease expert.
19. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) Can I go to the coffee shop without it?
20. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, that is what he said. Yes.
21. TPTom Papa
  Is my wife right?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  I think you should take vitamin D. I think you should exercise.
23. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
24. JRJoe Rogan
  I think you should drink a lot of water. Take care of yourself.
25. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  I think you should take all the vitamins. Quercetin, zinc, fish oil, all those things.
27. TPTom Papa
  I heard fish oil was no good.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Listen, the reason why you don't die. That's not true. The reason why you don't die from the disease, like everybody doesn't die from it is 'cause your immune system protects you.
29. TPTom Papa
  Right.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Your immune system fights off the disease and you survive. The key is having an immune system that's so strong that you never really get sick.
36:18 – 47:08
Tom Papa’s sourdough obsession: starters, fermentation, flour ‘variants,’ and digestion
1. TPTom Papa
  (laughs) I, I apologize. I screwed up the, uh, the bake. I was gonna try and bring you bread. And I was like-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  You fucked up the bake? You still fuck up bakes? How do you do that?
3. TPTom Papa
  Timing.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
5. TPTom Papa
  The timing. 'Cause I need the days and I just-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
7. TPTom Papa
  ... screwed up the order of it. My daughter came back from school. I was distracted.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  How much time does it take you to bake a loaf of bread?
9. TPTom Papa
  From the time I pull out the starter from the (laughs) refrigerator-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
11. TPTom Papa
  ... uh, it's-... uh, one, two, three days.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Three days?
13. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
15. TPTom Papa
  'Cause you feed it in the first day. You mix and make the, the dough and make it into-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  So, when you say feed it, like, so, e- explain this. You take the starter out. How big of a piece of the starter do you take?
17. TPTom Papa
  A big tablespoon.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Tablespoon.
19. TPTom Papa
  Like, two tablespoons basically.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  And then what do you do with that two tablespoons?
21. TPTom Papa
  I put it into a little bowl and I put equal amount of flour and water in it.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
23. TPTom Papa
  Like, like 100 grams of each.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  And that's feeding...
25. TPTom Papa
  That's feeding it, giving it, uh, flour and water so the yeast in there can eat.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  And do you have a specific kind of flour that you use?
27. TPTom Papa
  I do.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  What is it?
29. TPTom Papa
  I get from Central Milling, out of, uh, Utah. And, uh, (laughs) I order 50-pound bags of flour. It costs more to ship it than it does to pay for the flour. (laughs)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  That's hilarious.
47:08 – 1:00:32
Cheese, raw dairy, nut milks, and hidden sugar in ‘healthy’ drinks
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Raw cheeses, uh, apparently are very hard to get. And, uh, I knew a dude who was from France.
2. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  He's from France. He was an oncologist from Paris.
4. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  And he, um, he smuggled raw cheese back from Europe.
6. TPTom Papa
  Really?
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, 'cause in Europe, cheese is not pasteurized and homogenized. Like-
8. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, why is that okay?
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Well-
10. TPTom Papa
  And why do we think it's not okay?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I think the whole thing is shelf life. It's the same reason why raw milk is, uh, difficult.
12. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, they, they were arresting people for selling raw milk at places in California.
14. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, it's a big deal.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Like-
16. TPTom Papa
  I was once on the road in the Northeast with, uh, my opening act wanted raw milk. And she was like, "Can't we just stop and, like, like, ask the farmer?" And we did. We pulled into this guy's little f- you know, place. It was in, like, New Hampshire or Vermont, and asked him if we could have a glass of milk, and he gave it to us. (laughs)
17. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) What a weird fucking request.
18. TPTom Papa
  I know.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Couple of comedians pull up to your house, "Can we have a glass of milk?"
20. TPTom Papa
  "Just milk, right from the cow." And it was, like, kinda warm and-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  It was warm?
22. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, it was kinda warm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, right from the cow?
24. TPTom Papa
  Yeah, like, right from the cow.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
26. TPTom Papa
  And, uh, yeah, it was weird. I don't-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  But how long did you talk to this guy before you asked him for milk?
28. TPTom Papa
  10 seconds. (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
30. TPTom Papa
  First of all, when you're c- when you're pulling up to, like, someone's barn or house, like, you're coming up that gravel road with the dust coming off the back of your car. (laughs)
1:00:32 – 1:08:53
Pandemic routines and early return to stand-up: meditation, writing, and touring risks
1. JRJoe Rogan
  What did you do unusual during this pandemic? Did you do anything where you like made a shift in your, your daily routine?
2. TPTom Papa
  Uh, yeah, it was the creation of a routine-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. TPTom Papa
  ... was kind of the thing. It was like the cr- like the r- this creating structure where there was no structure.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
6. TPTom Papa
  I found that that was so important, like to have that plan every day, like I wasn't waking up in this weird haze of, "What's happening?" Like, I got really dialed into...... how I was gonna go after each day. And I had the radio show that I do with Fortune. (smacks lips) So that was two hours of my day, Monday through Thursday. And then from that, I built out. So I would, I ha- You want me to go through it? (laughs) Of like-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Sure.
8. TPTom Papa
  ... what a day was? Like, I would wake up, uh, a little earlier so I could get the first meditation in, bef- before the day started, 'cause I do that twice a day. So I would do that for 20 minutes, then I would do the research and whatever I had to do for the show, do the radio show. That brought me to noon, and then I would work out immediately after that. Regardless of how I felt, I would have to work out i- immediately. And then the afternoon was kinda loose, was kinda structure-free 'cause you're dealing with the family, whatever. And then at night, when I was normally going out and doing standup, that's where I was working on the writing. 'Cause I'm working on the, the next book. And I was like, "Where is that gonna fit? It's hard to fit it in before the day." So when I would normally go out and do spots at night, from, like, 8 o'clock to 10:00, that's when I would do the writing.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  So, it gave you... (clears throat) So even though you're not doing the normal stuff, like standup, it gave you, like, a real strict sorta schedule to look forward to every day?
10. TPTom Papa
  Totally. And the writing was, like, the-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  (clears throat)
12. TPTom Papa
  ... the creative kinda thing, like, where I wasn't getting the, everything that you got from performing, like the adrenaline and all that kind of, like, great stuff. I was sitting with my comedic thoughts and, and-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  But at least you were creating.
14. TPTom Papa
  Creating.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
16. TPTom Papa
  And I, I'm sorry, I would do the... The second meditation was, like, at the end of the day. Like, that's usually around 4:00. And that gives you a little more, uh, energy to go and do that writing or that spot, like, late at night.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  So you do two, two a day? Two-
18. TPTom Papa
  Two a day.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... 20-minute ones a day? How many minutes?
20. TPTom Papa
  20.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  20. Um-
22. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. So-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  How long did you take off standup?
24. TPTom Papa
  Not that long. Like, I, I, I went out kinda ear- I would do, like... I did, like, one a month starting in June.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, really?
26. TPTom Papa
  I went to Wise Guys in Salt Lake City. I picked places where I knew the owners and knew the city was, seemed like it was under control, and a calculated risk. I just had to do it.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Dun, dun, dun.
28. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you test yourself or get tested anymore?
30. TPTom Papa
  I would get tested, yeah. I would get tested.
1:08:53 – 1:23:59
Reopening comparisons: Texas/Florida vs. California/Canada—and civil liberties contrasts
1. JRJoe Rogan
  And that's essentially how they do it here in Texas. In Texas, like, it was in m- what was it, like, March when the governor said, "That's it. We're done. No more- no more masks."
2. TPTom Papa
  Right.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  He was like, "No more mask mandate."
4. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  "And everything's open 100% capacity. Do whatever the fuck you wanna do." And, and Biden was like, "That's Neanderthal thinking." And meanwhile, it's worked out great.
6. TPTom Papa
  (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  There's been no issues.
8. TPTom Papa
  Yeah. I mean, it's gonna be interesting to see what the stories are when we look back at, at this, like, you know-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
10. TPTom Papa
  ... with some perspective. Like, was, was Florida... Were, were they worse off than California?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  They definitely weren't. They're better off.
12. TPTom Papa
  Are they better off?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm. Their economy's better off and they have less cases.
14. TPTom Papa
  Right.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  And they have older people, older population. But you know what? They're also outside.
16. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, you know what this... I read- I was watching-
18. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... this video from this doctor and he was saying, this idea of flu season-
20. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... he said, "You know what flu season coincides with? People being locked down indoors."
22. TPTom Papa
  Mm-hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  He's like, "Flu season coincides with low vitamin D."
24. TPTom Papa
  Right, and almost no sunshine.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, you're not going out.
26. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, uh, where's flu hit you the worst? Northeast, right?
28. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Why does it hit you the worst? Because that's when it's cold out.
30. TPTom Papa
  Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:47:27

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Nixon, David Frost, and Hunter S. Thompson stories as an icebreaker

Political caricatures, media bias, and why leaders become (or avoid) punchlines

Biden gaffes and the collapse of a shared ‘center’ in news

Tribalism after the Cold War: missing a common enemy and turning inward

Post-COVID confusion: masks, uneven reopening, and cultural whiplash

Fauci emails, masks, and the lab-leak narrative—what changed and why it matters

Nature vs. lab origin fears: zoonotic spillover, livestock risks, and prion nightmares

Lyme disease, Plum Island speculation, and why people crave neat explanations

Variants, vaccines, and Rogan’s core theme: immune health and obesity risk

Tom Papa’s sourdough obsession: starters, fermentation, flour ‘variants,’ and digestion

Cheese, raw dairy, nut milks, and hidden sugar in ‘healthy’ drinks

Pandemic routines and early return to stand-up: meditation, writing, and touring risks

Reopening comparisons: Texas/Florida vs. California/Canada—and civil liberties contrasts

Get more out of YouTube videos.