Joe Rogan Experience #1674 - Clay Newcomb

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. CNClay Newcomb0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's happening, brother? How are you?

   4. CNClay Newcomb0:15

      I'm doing very well.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      I, uh ... It's always interesting to meet someone in person when you've heard them on a podcast. I've heard you, uh, I don't know-

   6. CNClay Newcomb0:22

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      ... a hundred times on the Meat Eater podcast.

   8. CNClay Newcomb0:24

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      So to, to see you in person, and then to, uh, start listening to your podcast, which is, uh, Bear Grease, which is a hilarious name for a podcast. And if people don't know, um, bear grease, rendered bear fat, is actually a, a very valuable thing.

   10. CNClay Newcomb0:42

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       And it's great to cook with, and it's, uh ... Like I, I, I'll, I'll never forget when I found out about bear hunting, about bears being good to eat, was actually from Steve Rinella.

   12. CNClay Newcomb0:53

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       When he was explaining to me about blueberry bears.

   14. CNClay Newcomb0:56

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       And then I watched that video that he put out of him hunting this bear in Alaska that had been eating nothing but blueberries.

   16. CNClay Newcomb1:04

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       And so when he's, uh, breaking down the bear and taking the fat off, the fat is actually purple-

   18. CNClay Newcomb1:10

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       ... because this bear's been eating so many blueberries that it's in its flesh.

   20. CNClay Newcomb1:14

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       And he said it is the most delicious meat you'll ever eat.

   22. CNClay Newcomb1:18

       Yeah. Well, I mean, bear grease, bear fat is essentially whatever that bear's been eating, you know? And it's flavored, whether it be by acorns or berries or whatever, so.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Or fish.

   24. CNClay Newcomb1:31

       I have ... I've got some bear grease for you, Joe.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Oh, exciting.

   26. CNClay Newcomb1:34

       I, I have ... I come bearing many gifts if you would like-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       I would love it.

   28. CNClay Newcomb1:37

       If you would like to see what I've got here.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Tell me what you got there.

   30. CNClay Newcomb1:39

       Uh, uh, and you know, talking about bear grease and trying to connect it to a podcast, I mean, at some point, I'll have to explain the metaphor of bear grease.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   And then you have…

   1. CNClay Newcomb15:00

      We've got more overlap of bear country and humans. We've, we've... Literally are up against the wall in terms of managing these animals, of... I mean, they've... They will be managed. Like, bears will be taken out of populations one way or another because bears only have so much of... Like, for instance, let's take Arkansas. Arkansas has 2.2 million acres of national forest and that's essentially the core bear habitat in the state of Arkansas. Th- that is great bear habitat. A natural bear density in the Ozarks or Ouachita Mountains would be, let's just say, one bear per square mile, and that would be a fairly high population of bears at a landscape level. Well, if you have two bears per square mile, that might not seem much to you or me, 'cause we're not bears, but long term that is not sustainable. And bears replicate basically at... A healthy population of bears is gonna increase by over 10% per year. So, if you have 100 bears an- and you know, the next year you're going to have 110, and then, you know, you can do the math. And one time I did the math, um, and, uh, it was... Like in, I want to say, within 12 years of population, even including mortality, natural mortality could, could double in like 15 years if it was just released. You know, when you start doing the math, 10% per year. Anyway, point being-

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:29

      And then you have to do the math with f- o- c- fawns and, uh, uh, you know, elk calves, and all the different animals they're gonna eat-

   3. CNClay Newcomb16:37

      Right, right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:37

      ... and what kind of impact that's gonna have.

   5. CNClay Newcomb16:39

      Yeah, yeah. I- point being is that, like, it's a great time. I mean, it seems kind of counterintuitive with the, the social structure of the planet. But I mean like, man, this country was founded on... It really was bear hunting. I mean, the American frontier was fueled by bear meat and bear fat.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:59

      It sounds so crazy to say but it really is true, and it took me a while to understand that.

   7. CNClay Newcomb17:03

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:03

      It took me a while of reading historical accounts-

   9. CNClay Newcomb17:07

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       ... of these travelers and these people-

   11. CNClay Newcomb17:09

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       ... that were making their way, these pioneers, making their way across the country and what they ate.

   13. CNClay Newcomb17:14

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       And a lot of what they ate-

   15. CNClay Newcomb17:15

       Well-

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       ... was bear.

   17. CNClay Newcomb17:16

       This blows people's mind, and it blew mine when I first learned it years ago but... And, and we could do trivia but I'm setting you up to know what the answer is.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:26

       Okay.

   19. CNClay Newcomb17:26

       Black bear, um, w- what is the most widely distributed big game mammal in North America? Well, uh, this is a little bit of a trick because it's not quite as straightforward. Most widely distributed, white-tailed deer, elk, naturally pre-European civilization. Pretty s-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Well, it has to be black bear.

   21. CNClay Newcomb17:44

       Well...

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       Right?

   23. CNClay Newcomb17:46

       Black bear's number two.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:47

       Really? What's number one?

   25. CNClay Newcomb17:48

       Mountain lion.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:49

       Really?

   27. CNClay Newcomb17:50

       Mountain, mountain lions went from... They basically covered the entire North American continent except in the real far north Arctic. But, you know, since, that time habitat fragmentation in, in mountain lion populations are now... They're thriving in the places where they are, in the West, and they're moving back into the East, which we did a podcast on. Um, but black bears would be number two, the most widely distributed big game animal. So they were everywhere. I mean, when, when people got off the-... I mean when they ... i- in the eastern United States, full of bear. I mean the, the, the eastern deciduous forest, which would essentially be from western Arkansas all the way to the Atlantic Ocean, all the way to Maine, all the way to Florida, all the way down to East Texas, like one third of United States would be the eastern deciduous forest.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       And how did they ... like was bear hunting a thing in Europe when the, when the early-

   29. CNClay Newcomb18:44

       They had brown bears.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:45

       ... settlers came here? Right.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Hm. …

   1. CNClay Newcomb30:00

      of these people and the way that they think. And if that would... You'd... Your question would be answered if you read the rest of the book. I- they, they, they just... Like, stuff happens and it becomes law.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:10

      Hm.

   3. CNClay Newcomb30:10

      You know? Um-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      Then why don't you drag a bear? Who knows?

   5. CNClay Newcomb30:15

      I- th- uh, a lot of these were just stated.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      Right.

   7. CNClay Newcomb30:17

      It was just like, "This is what you do." I- I think it has to do with respect, though. This one was interesting. When you kill a bear, you slit his eyes before you skin him so that he does not see you and him become offended after his death.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:32

      Wow.

   9. CNClay Newcomb30:33

      So, you walk up to the bear. The first thing you do, you slit his eyes-

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:36

       (laughs)

   11. CNClay Newcomb30:36

       ... because they perceive these as, like, spiritual animals that have power. Um, they don't, uh, they very rarely keep the skins of bears. They don't want a bear skin in their house because they think it holds, like, authority or power.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       Hmm.

   13. CNClay Newcomb30:52

       So, the- the bear hide is not used as... Which you would think in the Arctic that this would be, like, an essential for their clothing and whatnot. But, but they're killing caribou and other things and, um... I think I stumbled across the eye-slitting on-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       Yeah.

   15. CNClay Newcomb31:06

       ... a video of Make The Prayers to the Raven. Oh, wow.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:09

       Yeah, there he is.

   17. CNClay Newcomb31:10

       Yeah. I haven't even seen this.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       Well, they're not even slitting the eye. They're actually removing-

   19. CNClay Newcomb31:13

       They're, they're removing- Oh, wow. They're removing his eyes.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       Yeah. Wow.

   21. CNClay Newcomb31:16

       W- uh, and, and, and as I get down to these last two, I'll tell you kind of my conclusion of why this is intriguing to me and how I think it relates to me as someone who... I, I, I don't... Well, I'll tell you how it connects, but the last thing... well, close to the last thing. Bear death ceremonies are second only to human funerals. So, when you kill a bear, like, they have an absolute, like, ceremony. People all over the village would cook food. And th- this would be old, more ancient stuff. I don't, I don't know that... I couldn't say how these people live today. But, um, basically, like, extreme respect for that animal.

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:03

       Hmm.

   23. CNClay Newcomb32:04

       O- only second to a human funeral would be the death of a bear. And they would have these, like, ceremonies and cook and get together and, and it was, uh... You know, I, I, I, I, I feel that way when I kill a bear. I mean, like, I, I, I don't take it for granted, man. Like, and I've killed a fair number of bears and, like, each one is, like, significant to me. And I-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:28

       Do you feel differently when you kill a bear than when you, say, you kill a duck or something like that?

   25. CNClay Newcomb32:32

       Hmm, nope. I, I'm not one of those guys, if I could say "those guys". And I don't... I'm not pointing any fingers.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       Right.

   27. CNClay Newcomb32:40

       A bear is an animal. I mean, I, I do not attribute him... I don't want to give him... I don't want to anthropomorphize him too much.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:49

       Right.

   29. CNClay Newcomb32:49

       But they are special animals and they are, they are an incredible animal, especially when you understand where they fit inside of the ecosystem. They're an indicator species. Like, basically, wherever you have bears, you can be guaranteed that a whole bunch of stuff underneath that bear is in order-

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:05

       Hmm.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Oh. I hadn't even…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Well, he shoots at it. I don't know if the fuck if you wanna- He, he shoots it with a non-lethal round.

   2. CNClay Newcomb45:03

      Oh. I hadn't even seen that part.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Yeah. Shut up. Yeah. It charges him. This is real recent- Yeah. ... like two weeks ago. Yep.

   4. CNClay Newcomb45:10

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Oh my gosh. Okay. (gun firing) He hit it there in the butt. Yeah.

   6. CNClay Newcomb45:15

      And look, he's got a pistol on his side and bear spray.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      (laughs)

   8. CNClay Newcomb45:19

      Oh, you hear the little kid crying?

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      Yeah. Yeah. They're right in the car right there. Kid should cry. Fucking 2,000-pound monster.

   10. CNClay Newcomb45:27

       Monster.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:27

       Gigantic monster.

   12. CNClay Newcomb45:28

       Monster.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       That's a big bear too.

   14. CNClay Newcomb45:30

       It was.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       Pu- ro- roll that back again so we can see how big that fucker is. I mean, look at tha- imagine that thing running tow- and it does seem like something's wrong with his left paw. Look, see?

   16. CNClay Newcomb45:39

       Yeah, he's got it up off the ground. And he can still-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       That's probably-

   18. CNClay Newcomb45:42

       He's still extremely fast. Yeah, that's gotta be a big male. Seems like it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       Yeah. That's a big bear. Hm.

   20. CNClay Newcomb45:49

       Yeah, he's got a hurt front foot somehow.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:51

       Yeah. Hm. Well... Mm-hmm.

   22. CNClay Newcomb45:53

       ... I don't know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Well, that's the legend of Bigfoot right there. (laughs) Bears walking on back feet, you know?

   24. CNClay Newcomb45:58

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       I've, I've shown that to people that are, like, big time big B- Bigfoot believers. I'm like, "Listen, man. Imagine you're in a densely... just a f- like, a f- huge forest like Pacific Northwest, like Mount Rainier or something like that, incredibly dense forest. You're only glimpsing things through trees and it's like a box of Q-tips. That's how dense the trees are. Now imagine you've got a hurt black bear that's walking on its back feet."

   26. CNClay Newcomb46:21

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       "And he walks by and he's seven feet tall. You'd think it's a giant gorilla."

   28. CNClay Newcomb46:24

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       You would think for sure that's Bigfoot.

   30. CNClay Newcomb46:26

       Yeah. And we- we've seen documented in recent times bears that are almost bipedal, you know?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Of that scene from-…

   1. CNClay Newcomb1:00:00

      Man, I- I did an illustration, I like to draw, and I've got a pencil drawing that hangs in my office framed of- of the scene that I drew years ago.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Of that scene from-

   3. CNClay Newcomb1:00:12

      Yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Is... Do you have it online?

   5. CNClay Newcomb1:00:14

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

      Is it online?

   7. CNClay Newcomb1:00:17

      Top end, uh, yeah. Top end Clay Newcomb Erskine's death, I think you'll find it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

      How do you spell Erskine? There you go.

   9. CNClay Newcomb1:00:24

      E-R-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       An old basketball coach's name. Oh, really? (laughs)

   11. CNClay Newcomb1:00:28

       Really.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

       (laughs) What are the odds?

   13. CNClay Newcomb1:00:31

       Yeah, it's, uh, it's- it's- it's... I used it, uh... Well, it's on my Instagram too. It's up on my Instagram. Yeah, it's for sure on my Instagram, if you can pull that up. I don't know. But... No, there's a- there's a lot of incredible history inside of bear hunting and- and what's so interesting is that just the- the trend of the age is that this...... would be something that seems to be-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       This it? You drew that?

   15. CNClay Newcomb1:00:58

       No. Nope, nope, nope. Okay, go one back. Keep going. That one.

   16. NANarrator1:01:03

       This one?

   17. CNClay Newcomb1:01:04

       Yes, sir. That one.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Oh, wow. That's great.

   19. CNClay Newcomb1:01:07

       Yeah. So, you know, that's Erskine. There's a, there's a dog that's been... Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

       Why do you think they, uh, preferred to eat bear over deer? 'Cause deer had to be plentiful back then, right?

   21. CNClay Newcomb1:01:24

       Right. It was just s- super lean. Was, uh, it wasn't as, it was tougher. Bear meat would be much more like beef. Yeah, it was just better. More of it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:38

       So, there were m- more of it because it's a larger animal?

   23. CNClay Newcomb1:01:41

       Larger animal.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       Yeah.

   25. CNClay Newcomb1:01:42

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:44

       It just seems that with the danger involved, that they would probably prefer e- eating deer.

   27. CNClay Newcomb1:01:50

       I mean, w- we're, we're showing and talking about these extreme scenarios. You know, Daniel Boone in early 1800s, maybe th- late 1700s, you know, it was reported he and Rebecca and his son, one of his sons, on the Big Sandy River in Kentucky, killed 155 bears in one winter.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

       What?

   29. CNClay Newcomb1:02:11

       And I don't even think they were using dogs. Like, they were just still hunting these bears.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:15

       There was that many bears?
6. 1:15:00 – 1:20:38

   Right. …

   1. CNClay Newcomb1:15:00

      on big horns, but very little. And, and I'm not an expert on that. But essentially, this idea that we're now obsessed with big antlers comes from the idea that we want to save North American wildlife. And in a conservation perspective, the best animal to take out of a herd is an older mature male because he has contributed to the gene pool and it is a, it is not a loss to remove him. And so basically, they had this incredible idea that worked. And so that's what hurts me a little bit. Like, when you say trophy hunting, I'm like, "No." I mean, uh, I'm against... I mean, what you're, you are describing, I am against. The semantics of it though.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:41

      Right.

   3. CNClay Newcomb1:15:41

      Actually if you deep dive, and that's where you cannot understand these things if you just gloss over the surface, and that's the problem with so many parts of our world, is people look at a clip off YouTube and go, "Okay, I understand the whole thing." Man, you don't. E-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:15:56

      That's a part of Louis Theroux's documentary as well, which explains that these animals, a lot of these animals in Africa were on the verge of extinction, and now they're in abundance, but they live in these high-fence hunting ranches.

   5. CNClay Newcomb1:16:08

      Right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:16:08

      And it's, it's, it's a sort of a weird bittersweet victory because their, the numbers are huge.

   7. CNClay Newcomb1:16:15

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:16:15

      They're, they're higher than they've ever been before because there's value associated with them-

   9. CNClay Newcomb1:16:19

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:19

       ... 'cause people are willing to pay to kill them.

   11. CNClay Newcomb1:16:21

       Well, and, and I, I realize that's a tough pill for somebody to swall- or some people to swallow. But like, so to me, like, many, many, many, many animals have not been shot by me and my family because of the influence of us wanting to take a, a bigger male. And there's no shame in that. It's honorable.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:42

       Yes.

   13. CNClay Newcomb1:16:43

       It, it's, it's... And it's not honorable because, "Wow, look at the animal you killed. You must be a big, you know, big stud man because you..." Th- that's not it. We're playing a par- we're players in this big game that we understand. You could take any one of my kids and put them in this chair and they could tell you the exact same thing that I just told you. I mean, they understand what we're doing. They understand that, yeah, when we pass up a young buck to shoot an old one, we will celebrate the heck out of those horns.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:17:10

       Hmm.

   15. CNClay Newcomb1:17:11

       But we also know that we are celebrating the heck out of that we took an animal out that's the right one to take out, the hardest one to take out. And so to throw... And trophy, that word came from that time period, you know.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:17:28

       Hmm.

   17. CNClay Newcomb1:17:28

       So anyway, to me that's fascinating.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:17:29

       It is fascinating.

   19. CNClay Newcomb1:17:30

       Trophy hunting is what saved North American wildlife, and now we have this incredible ethic inside of everywhere, like when you go elk hunting, you wanna kill a big one. When I go bear hunting, I wanna kill an older age male. And, and that's, that's a good thing. It's like, it's a very good thing. It's hard to understand. It's not understood in a headline.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:17:49

       Right. It's a complex issue, and it's an issue if you do go back to the whole market hunting thing and people get an understanding of what was happening in North America in the, in the 19th century, they'll get a better appreciation of what was done because with market hunting, y- having animals on the verge o- of extinction and then reintroducing them in places like Kentucky where they now have seasons again or places like Pennsylvania-

   21. CNClay Newcomb1:18:17

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:18:17

       ... like there's a lot of parts of this country where wild a- some, like elk, were just, they're gone still from most of their range, right?

   23. CNClay Newcomb1:18:24

       Mm-hmm. Where an animal has cultural value, it will be protected and preserved.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:18:28

       Yeah.

   25. CNClay Newcomb1:18:28

       Where that animal has no cultural value, no incentive for the common man to preserve that animal, he will not be protected.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:18:36

       I think it's hard for people to swallow the fact that it takes a lot of money to protect these animals-

   27. CNClay Newcomb1:18:43

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:18:43

       ... as well. And one of the best ways to get that money is through the taxes that are taken from-

   29. CNClay Newcomb1:18:50

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:18:50

       ... hunting tags and ammunition-

Episode duration: 2:37:13