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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #1683 - Andrew Huberman

Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University, and host of the "Huberman Lab" Podcast.

Andrew HubermanguestJoe Roganhost
Jun 27, 20242h 59mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:23

    CBD for anxiety relief & the problem of inconsistent dosing

    1. AH

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. AH

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

    4. JR

      Are we rolling? Oh, there we go. We're rolling now. Yeah, well, anyway, um, I'm just a giant fan of CBD. I use it constantly.

    5. AH

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      I use it for, uh, like I use, uh, the roll-ons for muscle aches.

    7. AH

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      And I use, uh, gummies, and, and cbdMD is one of my sponsors, but this, uh, Killkliff company, this is, uh, uh, this is actually, uh, a drink that I designed.

    9. AH

      It tastes really good.

    10. JR

      Thank you.

    11. AH

      I like it.

    12. JR

      Thank you.

    13. AH

      Yeah, so many of the questions w- I get are about anxiety, people are like, "How do I control my anxiety-"

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. AH

      ... if people are stressed. So the CBD is supposed to help with that.

    16. JR

      It's supposed to help with that, and I think it does a little bit. Uh, y- one of the things that I've found is, uh, CBD with THC, uh, it- it alleviates even more.

    17. AH

      I can imagine.

    18. JR

      Like, you add a little THC to it-

    19. AH

      Yeah, I can imagine-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. AH

      ... the THC probably takes the edge off.

    22. JR

      But it's also a balancing act. You know, the problem, like, I used to get, uh, CBD with THC from a local company in LA, and they were so inconsistent, in that, like, I'd, uh, I'd take, like, I had a thing, I'd do, like, three droplets. I'm like, "Okay, I got three droppers full," and then one day, I did three droppers, and I was on the fucking moon. (laughs)

    23. AH

      (claps hands)

    24. JR

      I was like, "What are you, what have you people done?"

    25. AH

      Street-side chemistry.

    26. JR

      Yeah, they're all-

    27. AH

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      ... bathtub chemists.

  2. 1:23 – 3:41

    Supplement quality issues: melatonin label accuracy and unintended effects

    1. AH

      Well, that's the thing, the, um, I think with supplements, they're so poorly regulated.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. AH

      I'm not pushing for regulation. The last thing we need is regulation on it, but it's like melatonin. I was talking to Matt Walker-

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. AH

      ... about this, who I, you know-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm. Sure.

    7. AH

      ... our friend Matt, amazing sleep scientist, and turns out that the amount of melatonin, if it's listed, like, three milligrams or six milligrams, it can vary anywhere from being 15 per- 15% of what's actually listed on the bottle to 85% more. And if you look at how much melatonin is actually made by the pineal gland, it's a tiny fraction of the three milligrams it's supposed to be, so melatonin, it's all over the place.

    8. JR

      Does that mess you up if you, if you take melatonin, does your body say, "Well, I don't need any melatonin. I don't need to make it"?

    9. AH

      It, it might. The bigger pro- I never suggest melatonin for sleep for a couple reasons. One is the reason kids don't go into puberty until a certain age is 'cause they have chronically high melatonin.

    10. JR

      Really?

    11. AH

      Melatonin suppresses puberty.

    12. JR

      So does it suppress your endocrine system?

    13. AH

      So in humans, it's probably not as dramatic as it is in animals that are seasonal breeders, but long ago, when I was a graduate student at Berkeley, we would do these experiments on these little what are called Siberian hamsters, these little hamsters.

    14. JR

      Oh.

    15. AH

      And these hamsters only breed in long days, because light basically suppresses melatonin, okay?

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. AH

      So in short days, long nights, seasonal breeding animals shut down breeding, right? Humans can breed all year long-

    18. JR

      Oh.

    19. AH

      ... of course, but if you give melatonin to a male Siberian hamster, its testes go from the size of standard marbles to the size of a grain of rice within a week.

    20. JR

      Wow.

    21. AH

      And the females, their ovaries involute. They basically turn into, like, little shriveled not even raisins, but little specks. So when I hear about people taking a lot of melatonin, and you've got this whole issue with falling testosterone, dysregulated estrogen in men and women, um, I just think it's not the best sleep aid. The other thing, and Matt and I have talked about this a lot recently, just we've been hanging out and t- chatting about science, or as, as he would say, "Splashing around in the s- science of sleep," as you know-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. AH

      ... he's a Brit after all. Um, the problem with melatonin is it will help you fall asleep, but it won't help you stay asleep. And so some people have this problem, they take melatonin, they fall asleep, and then they wake up three or four hours later.

    24. JR

      'Cause it wears off?

    25. AH

      Yeah, there are much better things for sleep, much-

  3. 3:41 – 4:56

    A science-based sleep stack: magnesium threonate, apigenin, and theanine

    1. JR

      What, what do you choose for sleep?

    2. AH

      Yeah, my favorite sleep cocktail based on really good, solid peer-reviewed science is magnesium threonate, it's T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E, threonate, and something called apigenin, A-P-I-G-E-N-I-N, which is basically a derivative of chamomile.

    3. JR

      Oh.

    4. AH

      Those two things work really well to... They essentially shut down the forebrain thinking anticipating part of your brain, allow you to drift off into sleep really well.

    5. JR

      Oh, I need that all day then-

    6. AH

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      ... if it, if you could shut that down.

    8. AH

      Yeah, well, and then theanine is also the, is the third thing in the cocktail.

    9. JR

      Thea- isn't theanine, uh, that is also a nootropic.

    10. AH

      So theanine, um, also turns on what's called the GABA system. It's like an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and it helps suppress anxiety and kind of turn off thinking. It helps you make the transition into sleep. Yeah, so it's magnesium threonate.

    11. JR

      I'm gonna write all this stuff down-

    12. AH

      Sure thing.

    13. JR

      ... 'cause I think I do need this.

    14. AH

      Yeah, and sleep is obviously-

    15. JR

      I sleep pretty good, but it's always-

    16. AH

      Uh, these are a game changer.

    17. JR

      Okay.

    18. AH

      I'll be amazed if it doesn't help. So it's magnesium threonate, T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E, and that's important because there are a lot of T-H-

    19. JR

      T-H-R...

    20. AH

      ... R- T-H-R-E-O-N-A-T-E, E-O-N-A, threonate.

    21. JR

      He's got it right there.

    22. AH

      There it is. Um-

    23. JR

      Young Jamie on the ball-

    24. AH

      And if-

    25. JR

      ... as always.

  4. 4:56 – 12:37

    Why magnesium form matters: blood-brain barrier, muscle soreness, and laxative effects

    1. AH

      ... and basically, you know, people will probably wanna know about source. In this case, you just go for price, right? I mean, go for... If you have a favorite brand, go for that, but go for price. You know? So, um, magnesium threonate can cross the blood-brain barrier, 'cause when you take magnesium, it goes into your gut.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. AH

      Doesn't necessarily get into your brain. You've got a barrier around your brain that prevents certain things from getting in 'cause this tissue doesn't regenerate.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. AH

      Right? So the threonate form has a, gets brought across the blood-brain barrier by a transporter. Other forms like magnesium malate, magnesium citrate, those are good for other things. Magnesium malate's great for muscle soreness. Magnesium citrate's a great laxative. But (laughs) uh, magnesium threonate is gonna be the one that's gonna allow you to drift into sleep better.

    6. JR

      And, you know, it's interesting that you're saying this because, uh, one of the things that I've found that relaxes me more than anything is, uh, Epsom salts.

    7. AH

      Hmm.

    8. JR

      You know, um-... I'm a big proponent of the isolation tank, and the sensory deprivation tank-

    9. AH

      Oh, those are great.

    10. JR

      ... is all filled with magnesium. It's all filled with, with, uh, Epsom salts.

    11. AH

      And it can go transdermal.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. AH

      So, that's a really unusual situation where if you, you know, you get... And there are some magnesium creams and things like that.

    14. JR

      But you're not gonna get it in the kind of volume that you get it when you lie in it like that. And when you're doing that, what n- what magnesium is that?

    15. AH

      So, that's usually a f- a magnesium biglycinate.

    16. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. AH

      Which is another one of these forms of magnesium that can get transported into the brain really easily. And most people, actually, are magnesium deficient. I think, um-

    18. JR

      Hmm.

    19. AH

      ... m- most people could, would do well by increasing their magnesium intake.

    20. JR

      I supplement, but I think I supplement with citrate.

    21. AH

      Yeah, so citrate has its value. Malate, again, f- is good for muscle soreness. But threonate, what you wanna take is about 300 to 400 milligrams.

    22. JR

      Okay.

    23. AH

      But what you'll notice is on the bottle, it'll say "elemental magnesium" and then magnes- will be 300 to 400-

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. AH

      ... and then it'll say "equals 1,000 milligrams." Basically just go for 300 to 400 milligrams and y- you're good. And then the other thing is apigenin, A-P-I-G-E-N-I-N. And this stuff is terrific. It basically, that's the only source I'm aware of is, is Swanson.

    26. JR

      Oh, this is like a cocktail.

    27. AH

      Yeah. And I should be very clear that, uh, maybe 'cause I've been blabbing about this.

    28. JR

      How is this, uh, this cocktail put together? Did you just put this together?

    29. AH

      No.

    30. JR

      It's frequently bought together.

  5. 12:37 – 15:05

    Nootropics and ‘alert but calm’: dissecting caffeine + theanine and Alpha Brain ingredients

    1. JR

      Now, um, theanine, using theanine to help sleep, it seems so strange to me that it would also be a nootropic, that it also be something that enhances brain function 'cause it kinda... I take, um... Alpha Brain just released it today, Alpha Brain b- uh, Alpha Brain Black Label, the strongest version of Alpha Brain, which I've been, uh, testing over the last six months, actually more. So-

    2. AH

      Is it Alpha GPC at high dose?

    3. JR

      No, I'll tell you what exactly. You know, we, we had our original Alpha Brain, uh, from Onnit, and then there's an ad for it that they just put out today. Um, there's a, a new version of Alpha Brain that's been really beneficial to me. It's just for me, like, you know, we did some double blind placebo-controlled studies at the Boston Center for Memory when we first released Alpha Brain.

    4. AH

      Yeah, I could go through these.

    5. JR

      So what do you think about this stuff here?

    6. AH

      Okay.

    7. JR

      So it's got theanine in it.

    8. AH

      Yup. So the, the theanine is gonna take down some of the stimulant effect of the caffeine and kind of... You know, the best way to work, the best nootropic is something that's gonna put you in alert, but calm.

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. AH

      Right? You don't wanna be super jazzed.

    11. JR

      You don't wanna be on amphetamines.

    12. AH

      No. I mean, if you're on them, you think you wanna be on them.

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. AH

      But you, you don't wanna be on them. Uh, so the, the theanine is gonna take the edge off. The caffeine anhydrous is the right form of caffeine. You, you guys have good people, um, uh, working on this. Um, the phosphatidylserine is gonna be... it's gonna actually be a little bit of a, uh, a reduction of cortisol, which is good. Most people are riding high on cortisol in not a good way. You want cortisol each day and we can talk about how to time it, but you wanna time that peak in the right way. The acetylcholine is, is going to increase acetylcholine, which is involved in the brain's ability to focus, to create that tunnel of attention-

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. AH

      ... which is critical, right? I mean, you can't be all over the place. And the Lutemax 2020, I don't know, that looks like a proprietary blend. Let's see, um, marigold, carotenoids. Oh, lutein, that's gonna be good for... So that-

    17. JR

      Vision.

    18. AH

      ... those, those are gonna be good for eye health. And actually I looked into it based on our last discussion.

    19. JR

      Uh-huh.

    20. AH

      So for moderate to advanced macular degeneration, the data on lutein are good. It supports healthier vision.

    21. JR

      Yeah, I take lutein every day now.

    22. AH

      I spoke to my chairman of ophthalmology at Stanford, asked him, "What's the story on lutein?" He said, "For moderate to s- to severe macular degeneration, it, there, there seems to be a, a positive effect there. For people that have mild or early forms of macular degeneration, the data aren't there yet." And I said, "But is it reasonable to consider taking it as a preventative?" And he was like, "Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to do."

  6. 15:05 – 18:28

    Protecting eyesight: sunlight, distance viewing, and anti-myopia habits

    1. JR

      Whatever has happened with me over the last year or so, uh, my vision has stopped decr- uh, deteriorating.

    2. AH

      That's great.

    3. JR

      Yeah. It's-

    4. AH

      I, I have another theory.

    5. JR

      Okay.

    6. AH

      Which is you're living in Texas now, no joke, and because... This isn't a joke. Um, because you're living in Texas, you're actually getting longer vista views. You're looking at things at a distance more often.

    7. JR

      Hmm.

    8. AH

      I'm guessing. I don't know your home environment or your lifestyle terribly much, but, at all, really, but, um, we know that long distance viewing and getting outside into sunlight can offset macular degeneration and myopia, nearsightedness.

    9. JR

      Hmm.

    10. AH

      There's a, a huge, meaning thousands of subjects, study that was done in the US, also overseas, so their multiple site clinical trial, showing that if children get outside for two hours a day, even if they're on their phones, I hate to say it, but even if they're on their phones and they're reading and doing their thing, they don't develop nearsightedness. And just being outside in natural light seems to help offset vision loss. And the reason is that the... when you look at things up close, the eyeball actually lengthens. And because there's a lens there, the light gets focused in front of the retina, not on the retina, which is what you need in order to pass that information to the brain, so that when you put on eyeglasses, you're basically giving it another lens to focus it to the right place. When you look at things at a distance, you a- you use the musculature of the eye in a process called accommodation. People can look it up. We don't have to get into the details. That lens becomes and, and remains bendy. The lens in your eye bends. It actually squishes and bends.

    11. JR

      Hmm.

    12. AH

      It's not like a standard rigid lens. And so looking at things in the distance, getting natural light, actually blue light is good for us in this sense during the daytime, improves eye health, it reduces myopia and nearsightedness, and can offset the progression of age-related macular degeneration. Now, people shouldn't be blasting themselves with b- bright light 'cause that can cause other issues, but if... as long as the light isn't painful to look at, you're in, you're in safe territory.

    13. JR

      So if someone, um, is experiencing the beginning of macular degeneration, do you recommend going somewhere where you could see long distances and just concentrate on just... How often would/should you do something like that?

    14. AH

      For every 30 minutes of looking at a screen or a phone, you should look off into the distance for about five minutes.

    15. JR

      Really?

    16. AH

      Now, that doesn't mean you have to do the 1,000-mile stare. Just get outside and-

    17. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    18. AH

      I mean, we w- I hate that we weren't designed 'cause I wasn't consulted at the design phase and no one I know was either-

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. AH

      ... so I... but we, we evolved from lifestyles of looking at things up close and far away. And we're just spending a ton of time now looking at things up close, and the visual system and the brain will adapt to that.

    21. JR

      Hmm.

    22. AH

      So kids that grow up only looking at computers and screens and don't go outside, they require, like, Coke bottle thick glasses.

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. AH

      The, the nerd thing, like, that nerds wear glasses, part of that is because nerds spend a lot of time reading.

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. AH

      So, it's-

    27. JR

      It's real.

    28. AH

      ... it's a real thing. Yeah.

    29. JR

      Yeah. It's not just that they have glasses so th- they become nerds-

    30. AH

      Right.

  7. 18:28 – 28:54

    Knees, back pain, and durability: from KneesOverToes to Reverse Hypers

    1. JR

      I don't understand how his joints are holding up. That's what's driving me crazy.

    2. AH

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      Like, my knees, I'm getting stem cells shot into 'em-

    4. AH

      You do the PRP, the whole thing.

    5. JR

      I do all kinds of shit. I'm just trying to keep 'em active. I think running, I guess, has gotta be different than kicking things. Kicking things and d- and, and jujitsu are very hard on the knees.

    6. AH

      Yeah. I've been-

    7. JR

      It's very hard.

    8. AH

      I think it was 'cause, maybe Jamie mentioned it, or you mentioned, the Kneesovertoesguy?

    9. JR

      Yes. Yeah.

    10. AH

      I'll tell you why I love this guy.

    11. JR

      He's amazing.

    12. AH

      I don't know him, but I'll tell you why I love him. I have always had an anterior tib machine in my gym.

    13. JR

      Ah.

    14. AH

      Because... And I didn't know why I needed this thing, but I knew I needed it. For the... I would get hip problems, and, like, a sciatica on one side. 'Cause I like lifting, I've been lifting since I was younger, and it just makes me happier, saner human being. And I noticed I would get this tweak on my right side, and then I started using the anterior tib machine, and it went away. Now, he could probably tell me why. It's got to be some ankle-

    15. JR

      Mm.

    16. AH

      ... up to hip alignment. So, I bought one of those. And people always laugh, like, that in my, my home gym, I've got a tib machine, a glute ham raise. I got one of these Louie Simmons Reverse hypers.

    17. JR

      Oh. Those are the best.

    18. AH

      Thanks to you, 'cause of last time you-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. AH

      ... you gave me the tutorial.

    21. JR

      How great is that machine?

    22. AH

      Amazing.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. AH

      And my posture is better. It's still not perfect. I still, you know, I'm kinda, you know-

    25. JR

      That thing saved my back.

    26. AH

      It's-

    27. JR

      It really has.

    28. AH

      ... amazing.

    29. JR

      'Cause I'm still doing stupid shit with my body, you know, at 54, almost. 54 next month.

    30. AH

      You seem very healthy.

  8. 28:54 – 39:07

    Fight injuries & bone breaks: what’s happening in MMA and why judging is hard

    1. JR

      So John Kavanagh, who's Conor McGregor- excuse me, who's Conor McGregor's, uh, coach said that ... That's Laura. Laura Sanko is, uh, one of the UFC, uh, commentators, and she, uh, did an excellent interview with Kavanagh. And they went over all the things that happened. And one of the things that happened in training camp was, uh, they think it probably cracked in training camp. And, uh, he got it scanned and, uh, you know, they said they, there might have been something there, but it's hard to tell. It's probably some sort of a hairline fracture. And, uh, they did their best to just stay healthy until they can get into the fight. But if you go to Laura's interview, it's really excellent. And, uh, Kavanagh explains that. And it looks like, uh, John Wayne Parr picked up something too. It looked like the, the shin was compromised on one of the leg kicks too. Not the one that Dustin thought. Dustin thought that probably s- it was probably damaged more than once, because, uh, Dustin checked one of the kicks and then pointed to Conor's l- shin, like, "I know that hurt f- " or, "That hurt you." But this one, this is from John Wayne Parr's page. He throws his kick. If you watch Conor's shin-... see, look, it kind of buckles right there. See that?

    2. AH

      Oh, yeah. No, there's-

    3. JR

      That ain't good.

    4. AH

      ... there's definitely something happening.

    5. JR

      Right. Now, right after it buckles there, this is what Jon put up, right afterwards, Conor then throws a front kick and that's it right there. And that front kick hits the knee. Now, as he puts it down, his knee's sh- his shin is shot now. Now he goes to throw a punch, he throws a punch and then as he steps back, no, he doesn't have it on his. If you go to mine, you'll see that. If you go to mine, go to my Instagram and you'll see, um, I reposted it from, uh, Eric Nicksick from, um, (smacks lips) uh, Xtreme Couture. So he's, he throws this front kick and as he throws the front kick, it hits the elbow at the points. He's throwing it up, see that? And bam, it catches it, and then it goes down. And right now, he's standing on that fractured. So he puts it behind him, watch. He puts it behind him, and then he throws the punch, and then when he goes to throw the punch, he picks the foot off the ground, right? Here's the left hand.

    6. AH

      Oh, that almost looked like it bent back.

    7. JR

      But watch this. It did bend back, but watch this. Bang. Then it just gives out completely. See, it folds over.

    8. AH

      Wow.

    9. JR

      So it was snapped above the ankle.

    10. AH

      Yeah, that's, uh-

    11. JR

      It wasn't actually the ankle. It was above the ankle. Here's what's really crazy. There's been so many fights in the UFC and to have all these breaks in a row, there's been, uh, Jacare Souza got his arm broken, Chris Weidman got his leg broken. There's been a ton of breaks over and over and over again, over the last-

    12. AH

      Wonder what the hell's going on.

    13. JR

      Just people are getting good at breaking people's bones.

    14. AH

      People are...

    15. JR

      It's re- really what it is. You know? And the Chris Weidman one's a freak accident. The craziest thing is, Chris Weidman, there's only been, I think, one, two, three, four, there's been four leg breaks like that in the UFC. In the history of the UFC, Chris Weidman's been involved in two of them. The odds are insane. Insane. Anderson Silva threw a kick, he checked it, Anderson broke his knee. He threw a kick, Uriah Hall checked it, or Anderson broke his leg rather, he threw it, Uriah Hall checked it, he broke his leg. Crazy.

    16. AH

      That's crazy.

    17. JR

      The odds, the odds of these things happening, like, in this, this number, are nuts.

    18. AH

      That is crazy.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. AH

      A brutal sport. I mean-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. AH

      ... like I said, I'm only recently exposed to it. I, I, I do not understand the ground game, 'cause as an outsider, there's just no way to comprehend. I can't, I can't tell who's in control, basically.

    23. JR

      Yeah, it's complicated. It's like watching chess if you don't understand the rules. Like, you're like, "Why is he allowed to move like that with that piece?"

    24. AH

      Right. Yeah.

    25. JR

      You know, it's, it's, uh, it's a real problem for judging because, uh, a lot of the judges don't understand the ground game either. It's getting better. The ones in Nevada are getting really good and th- that's the gold standard, but there's... The problem is, in other states, we'll go to these different states and the, um, MMA commissions are very new so they're using boxing judges and the boxing judges don't understand, s- some boxing judges, don't understand these submission techniques. If they've trained, that's ideal. Ideal, uh, you really should be at least a, a blue belt or above to, as a, as a referee, or as a judge, rather.

    26. AH

      It seems right. In science, we don't let people review papers unless they have been in the game a long time.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. AH

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      It's co-

    30. AH

      Careers are on the line.

  9. 39:07 – 43:49

    Testosterone, TRT practices, and performance: dosing logic vs. clinic habits

    1. AH

      We could talk about that stuff and how it works. Years ago, I used to work on androgens, testosterone and its derivatives and how it impacts brain development and body function, fear, and, and also mental states. But there's a category of supplements that are very interesting that for most people who aren't exploring testosterone augmentation for sport work very well to increase testosterone by about 100 to 200 points. Not, you know, 300... you know, not a tripling or anything like that. And the main ones are two substances. One is called Tongkat Ali.

    2. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    3. AH

      Which is-

    4. JR

      That stuff's real, huh?

    5. AH

      Yeah. Oh, yeah, because the... what happens is-

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. AH

      ... the testosterone molecule, it, it's basically carried in a cargo, so it can be in its free form, unbound form, free testosterone. And everyone says, "Oh, I want more free testosterone." You want more, but the- these what are called sex hormone-binding globulins, so there's something called sex hormone-binding globulin and albumin, they carry the testosterone molecule to the different tissues of the body. So, you don't want all your testosterone free, you want some of it bound up so that it can be delivered to the different tissues, including your brain. But if you have too much sex hormone-binding globulin, the testosterone can't really do its things, okay? So, Tongkat Ali, about 400 milligrams per day has the effect of raising free testosterone and overall testosterone by about 100 to 200 points. And so we're not talking about full TRT or blasting her now that... (laughs) I'm always amused on YouTube, they now call it sports TRT. That's when you get above 200 milligrams per week. So-

    8. JR

      Sports?

    9. AH

      This is basically, you know, you've got TRT which is typically about 200 milligrams per week.

    10. JR

      And when you say 200 milligrams, when you're looking at a syringe, what is that? So that's a th-

    11. AH

      So the typic-

    12. JR

      Is that 1,000 milligrams?

    13. AH

      So the typical dose of, of, uh, testosterone replacement therapy-

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. AH

      ... is 200 milligrams given once every week to two weeks.

    16. JR

      But when you look at a full syringe, what is that?

    17. AH

      So for one cc, one mil-

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. AH

      ... that's 200 milligrams typically of cypionate, which is sold

    20. NA

      I think.

    21. JR

      One cc? A full cc is only two-

    22. AH

      That's... One cc is not gonna be that much. It's a... Yeah. So, it depends. If you have a little narrow syringe-

    23. JR

      Okay.

    24. AH

      ... right?

    25. JR

      Right. But if you have a s- a syringe that goes up to 10, what is that?

    26. AH

      Right. That's, that's 10 ccs. That's a lot.

    27. JR

      That's 10 ccs.

    28. AH

      Yeah. That's 1,000 milligrams.

    29. JR

      Okay. That makes sense.

    30. AH

      Right. Right.

  10. 43:49 – 45:45

    Herbal testosterone boosters & ‘sports TRT’: tongkat ali, fadogia, and turkesterone skepticism

    1. AH

      And testosterone and prolactin are kind of working in opposite fashion. So, it's a very interesting thing, but, uh, the way you describe it is correct. Now, for people that aren't getting prescribed TRT but want the increase in testosterone, there are these plant compounds like tongkat ali, and another one which is very interesting, it's a Nigerian shrub called fadoja agrestis. And it mimics luteinizing hormone, which is the hormone that comes out of the hypothalamus that stimulates the testes, if you got those, and your ovaries, if you've got those, to make more testosterone or estrogen. And so those two herbal supplements together can give a significant boost in free and active testosterone.

    2. JR

      So, you said tongkat ali can give you 100 to 200?

    3. AH

      Yeah, about that.

    4. JR

      But what does the other one give you?

    5. AH

      Fadoja is usually taken at about 600 milligrams, um, and that can mean... I- the, the most dramatic effect I've ever seen was somebody who had his testosterone down in the low twos, or I think it was like low twos. And it, he got it up to the 700 range, which-

    6. JR

      Really?

    7. AH

      But that's an, but that's an outlier, right? Most people are gonna see about a 300 to 400 point increase.

    8. JR

      And that's what the two of them sy-

    9. AH

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... synergistically?

    11. AH

      Fadoja will actually make the testes grow.

    12. JR

      Really?

    13. AH

      It's a, it's, it's a noticeable difference. So-

    14. JR

      Everybody wants that.

    15. AH

      (laughs) Well, the reason I know about this stuff-

    16. JR

      (laughs)

    17. AH

      ... people are probably be thinking like, you know, "Huberman's running gear out of the back of his cars." That's not what this is about. Is that I, I do a certain amount of work with military and I do a certain amount of work with professional athletes who cannot take androgen compounds out of a syringe because they'll lose their job.

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. AH

      Or they've been doing that and they wanna come off. Although, and I'm not gonna out the organization, but there is one major professional sports organization where, let's just say, if somebody gets injured, they have permission to take up to 200 milligrams a week of testosterone.

    20. JR

      Soccer?

    21. AH

      No.

    22. JR

      No?

    23. AH

      No.

    24. JR

      Shit.

    25. AH

      No. But good guess.

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. AH

      (laughs) You almost got me there.

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. AH

      (laughs) 'Cause I almost countered with the actual thing they did is-

    30. JR

      Hockey?

  11. 45:45 – 1:08:20

    Hormones, motivation, and aggression: effort feels good, dopamine, and hypothalamus ‘switches’

    1. AH

      The head injury thing is, is, is a serious problem, obviously. So, testosterone has the n- the effects we're all aware of, like deepening the voice, facial hair, muscle growth, recovery, et cetera. Mostly because testosterone increases protein synthesis. You look at a, a young male in puberty, it's a protein synthesis machine.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. AH

      They eat, they eat, they eat, and they just grow and grow and grow, and they're putting on muscles and they're lean, and you know. So, most often they're lean. But in any case, testosterone has some very interesting effects on the brain. The, the major mental effect of testosterone is it makes effort feel good.

    4. JR

      Oh, that makes sense.

    5. AH

      And the reason it does it is that the amygdala, this fear center in the brain, this anxiety center in the brain, has androgen receptors. It has testosterone receptors. And so i- i- the way this works in animals and in humans as well is that for most species, the males of that species never get a chance to mate, right? So, if you think about... Uh, I'll probably pick an example where you'll, you'll know the exception 'cause I know you know a lot about natural animals and, uh, animals that are hunted. But if you think about animals with antlers like rams, there's been a lot of research, believe it or not, on rams. It'd be fun-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. AH

      ... to... I'd love to work on rams.

    8. JR

      Do you know rams have enormous balls?

    9. AH

      And they have to fight for the right to mate.

    10. JR

      Yes.

    11. AH

      And the fighting is a choice, right? And the decision to walk away is a choice usually. They usually don't kill each other, although I know some of the injuries can lead to death. So, testosterone, these surges in testosterone that happen seasonally in certain species like rams or even these little hamsters, the males will rip each other's testicles off in order to fight for the right-

    12. JR

      Whew.

    13. AH

      ... to mate. So, males of a given species have to actually overcome the fear of pain and punishment. And the surge in testosterone is what causes the shift to the willingness to engage in battle.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. AH

      And so when humans are taking low doses or m- or reasonable doses of testosterone, or they're increasing their testosterone, or they're going through puberty, effort and leaning into pain and challenge actually has the effect of making the body feel soothed and good. It's a drive, just like sex is a drive or drinking water when you're thirsty is a drive. This stuff is all anchored deep within the hypothalamus. This isn't a cognitive thing.

    16. JR

      That makes sense why young men, in particular, are really driven to h- hard exercise and sports that are ver- very difficult that require extreme effort. Completely makes sense.

    17. AH

      Yeah. And why, when people are testosterone depleted, they feel depressed, and when people have a surge of testosterone, they feel relief in anxiety, provided it's in the appropriate range, right?

    18. JR

      My friend, Steve Rinella has a podcast called Meat Eater and, uh, he had a, a squirrel expert on. And they were talking about squirrels and squirrel estrus. So, when the female is in estrus, the, the males, uh, only have a s- a small window. They have, like, a six-hour window and it doesn't happen very often. And so when you see squirrels chasing each other around, screaming (squirrel squeaking) , going nutty, that's generally what's going on. And they throw each other out of trees. So-

    19. AH

      It's like the last call at a bar.

    20. JR

      It's a lot-

    21. AH

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      ... worse than that. It's the last call at a, like a barbarian compound.

    23. AH

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      Because, like, when the male will be breeding with a female and another male will come along and pull him off and throw him off the tree. So these, these squirrels will fall, like, 60, 70 feet-

    25. AH

      Wow.

    26. JR

      ... and bounce off the ground and run right back up the tree.

    27. AH

      That's crazy.

    28. JR

      They, they actually can survive falls.

    29. AH

      That's amazing.

    30. JR

      It's nuts. But they were saying that, you know, the, these squirrels, they're only in estrus for a short amount of time. So when the males recognize that she's ready to go, they just start chasing her and then all the other ones come around, they start fighting.

  12. 1:08:20 – 1:12:37

    Temperature as a powerful lever: sleep cooling, saunas, and core heat-dumping mechanics

    1. JR

      I wanted to ask you, though, about this. Um, there's quite a few of these companies now, um, that are d- I had one for a while. I forget the one that I had. It was one of our sponsors, Jamie, that was a- a- a cooling pad that puts over the bed, but Jamie uses one called, what is it, Eight something?

    2. AH

      Eight Sleep.

    3. JR

      Eight Sleep.

    4. AH

      Oh, yeah. Lex is big into Eight Sleep. Yep, yep.

    5. JR

      Do you, do you use any of those? Like-

    6. AH

      I don't, but th- so there's a really interesting thing around temperature. Uh, you know, we hear so much about light, hormones, nutrition.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. AH

      To me, temperature is the untapped power tool. It's just amazing what you can do with temperature. So, uh, so when you wake up in the morning, your temperature is increasing. If you exercise early in the day, your temperature will undergo a further increase. And then what you effectively do by exercising early in the day, especially viewing light and exercising early in the day, is you time the onset of that melatonin pulse to come on 16 hours later, which is gonna put you to sleep.

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. AH

      Okay? So, but in order to get into sleep and stay asleep, your temperature's got to drop, and that starts for most people around 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon, although it depends on when you're waking up. As that temperature drops, it's going to be much easier to get into sleep. So there are a couple ways to accelerate that transition. One is to get into a sauna, which sounds counterproductive, or take a hot bath or a hot shower. But when you do that, the body actively cools, and when you get out, your body is dumping heat like crazy, and then you can, you have that kind of almost coma-like feel where you get into sleep real quick.

    11. JR

      That's interesting because that's something I also do. I get in the sauna almost every night-

    12. AH

      Oh, that's magic.

    13. JR

      ... yeah, before I go to bed.

    14. AH

      Well, there you also get something really powerful. I know, uh, Rhonda Patrick has talked a lot about this and knows more about this than I do, but in researching some of the literature, if you do 20 minutes of sauna or so in the evening and you crank it up, you're getting up to the 200, 210 zone or 190 to 210, eh, that has this huge effect on growth hormone release, 16-fold increase in growth hormone release if you do it regularly.

Episode duration: 2:59:33

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