Joe Rogan Experience #1717 - Alex Berenson

1. 0:00 – 1:43

   Twitter ban fallout and the broader COVID-era anxiety spiral

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, guys. (laughs) Hello, Joe.

   4. ABAlex Berenson0:14

      (laughs) What's it like to be in Twitter jail?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Well, you're not even in Twitter jail. You're, like, excommunicado. I'm, I'm banned, yeah.

   6. ABAlex Berenson0:20

      You're banned.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Permanently suspended.

   8. ABAlex Berenson0:22

      For telling the truth.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      For telling the truth. (laughs)

   10. ABAlex Berenson0:23

       That's what the fascinating thing is, y- everything that you were banned for is verifiable.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       (laughs)

   12. ABAlex Berenson0:29

       There's sources. You could go read those sources. I watched the whole process go down. I, I don't understand.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Um, yeah. Well, I'm not a naive guy, but I thought that being right would, would actually help, and it turns out being right hurts.

   14. ABAlex Berenson0:45

       Well, during this incredibly confusing time, where people are more hysterical and more freaked out and anxiety-filled than I've ever seen people in all of my 54 years of life, this is the peak.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       (laughs)

   16. ABAlex Berenson0:59

       This is, this is post-9/11 peak.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yes.

   18. ABAlex Berenson1:02

       Like, 9/11 was, uh, a big anxiety moment for people, but at least it brought us all together. This, because of whatever it is, it's... whether it's social media algorithms or it's just, just an- the inevitable decline of an empire or whatever the fuck it is-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       (coughs)

   20. ABAlex Berenson1:18

       ... we have hit a weird place right now.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Yeah. Yes. Um, I, you know, I would say, the people who were sort of very complacent about vaccinations, uh, and being vaccinated in the spring-

   22. ABAlex Berenson1:32

       (coughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       ... are now very angry. But they're angry (laughs) at the wrong people.

   24. ABAlex Berenson1:36

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       They're... somehow, they're blaming people who are not vaccinated. They should be blaming Pfizer and the lies that the CDC told them.

2. 1:43 – 3:01

   Lab-leak frustration: why no outrage at Wuhan, NIH, EcoHealth, or Fauci?

   1. ABAlex Berenson1:43

      Well, what's really interesting, there's almost no anger at the lab in Wuhan.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:49

      (laughs) That's true, too.

   3. ABAlex Berenson1:50

      Very strange. Almost no anger. Almost none. It's almost like an inconvenient truth that most likely, this virus emerged from a lab. I mean, uh, Saagar Enjeti from, uh, Breaking Points broke down exactly when it went down, who were the initial people that got infected, how it most likely spread. Um, it's been documented by Josh Dubin extensively, the involvement of, uh, Fauci, the NIH, uh, the EcoHealth Alliance. All of the input, all of the deceptive public statements contrasted to the internal emails that showed a real concern that they might be responsible for it, a real concern that gain-of-function research might have been the cause of this, and no anger at that. But anger at people who are unvaccinated.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      (laughs)

   5. ABAlex Berenson2:46

      Even people who are unvaccinated and healthy. Even people who have taken care of their body for their entire life, exercised, ate right, take vitamins. People who are fit and who don't want to take a chance with anything else.

3. 3:01 – 5:21

   Replacing Twitter with Substack: audience reach, censorship promises, and economic damage

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:01

      I, b- yeah. I'll, I mean, just to, uh, y- yeah, it's funny you mention the lab leak. So, you know, I now have this Substack, which is sort of my inadequate effort to replace Twitter. I mean, I've-

   2. ABAlex Berenson3:09

      Tell people how to get to that, by the way.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:11

      So... Sure. So, uh, Substack is substack.com. My, uh, parti-... Substack is essentially a newsletter service and a hosting service, and they have guaranteed free expression. That's what, that's what they've said. They've said they're not gonna censor. Um, I have to choose to believe them on that. Uh, I, I believed in Twitter for a while. That confidence was clearly misplaced. But Substa- Substack says they're not gonna censor me, uh, or other people, and I gotta hope that's true. 'Cause-

   4. ABAlex Berenson3:35

      How many people do you have in your Substack now?

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      Uh, more than 150,000.

   6. ABAlex Berenson3:38

      That's nice.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:38

      Yes. E-

   8. ABAlex Berenson3:39

      Let's see if we can juice that up.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      Eh, I hope so.

   10. ABAlex Berenson3:41

       Yeah. Here it is, Unreported Truths.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:43

       Yes.

   12. ABAlex Berenson3:44

       So you type in your email, and then...

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       And you can subscribe. You can s-

   14. ABAlex Berenson3:46

       Yeah. Or you can just say, "Let me read it first."

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       Yep. Oh-

   16. ABAlex Berenson3:48

       You don't have to subscribe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       And you will see the fir-

   18. ABAlex Berenson3:51

       Beautiful.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       I... Excited to be in Austin to talk to Joe Rogan today.

   20. ABAlex Berenson3:54

       Yeah. Beautiful.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       Um, and so, uh, so you... By the way, most of the people who are s- who are signed up do not pay. You can choose to pay or not pay. Basically, you're gonna get the same content. I'm very clear about that. There will be a few things extra you get. But for the most part, this is not... it's not about money for me. It's about getting the largest audience possible. Um, and so I have more than 150,000 people signed up right now. But I gotta tell you, Twitter, on Twitter I had 350,000, 345,000, and that was growing, uh, by about 1,000 a day towards the end. And, um, I had 25 million profile views in August, and almost 200 million, uh, impressions. So Twitter, in, i- in cutting me off, Twitter not only defamed me, they really hurt m- my efforts to get the word out.

   22. ABAlex Berenson4:43

       Well, it's also one of the very best examples that I think I've ever come across of egregious censorship that is ideologically based and not based on anyone doing anything that is, uh, whether it's... w- what I... I don't know what their code of conduct is, whether it's about someone being malicious, or it's about someone being untruthful or misrepresentation of the facts. You did none of those things.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       None of those things, (laughs) no.

   24. ABAlex Berenson5:07

       You really didn't. I mean, I watched it very carefully. I mean, you and I went back and forth with DMs, and I, I, I watched your, your feed very carefully.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       And you would ask me questions, some- And I'd say, "You know, Joe, I disagree with this."

   26. ABAlex Berenson5:18

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       "I, I... You know, you can't go this far."

   28. ABAlex Berenson5:20

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:20

       I would say that to you. Um, uh-

4. 5:21 – 8:20

   Breakthrough infections and shifting narratives: UK/Israel data, waning efficacy, and boosters

   1. ABAlex Berenson5:21

      Well, you were very... Yeah. You're, you're very... I'm gonna say very objective about your interpretation of the data and what you think is going on versus, you know, what is, uh, being purported. And I should say, f- first of all, right away, you were correct about a lot of the data, uh, particularly coming out of Israel. You sounded the warning shots long before anyone else that not only do the vaccines have, uh, a certain l- there's a, like, a window of, of, uh, efficacy-

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      Yep.

   3. ABAlex Berenson5:52

      ... whether it's three months or five months, whatever it is-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:54

      It's in there, yeah.

   5. ABAlex Berenson5:55

      Yeah. But you were saying that people who are vaccinated are getting sick, and people were treating that like you were saying that vampires were rising.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:03

      (laughs) That's what-

   7. ABAlex Berenson6:04

      It was crazy. It was crazy to watch. They were saying, "You're lying," but now that's the narrative. The narrative is like, "The vaccines were never supposed to prevent you from getting sick. They're supposed to keep you from being hospitalized."

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:14

      Not, not even that anymore. Now it's basically, "They'll prevent you from dying," which, which also probably... I mean, there's, there's, there's evidence, there's some evidence of benefit of really serious illness or death. But I'm not even convinced we're gonna... when we look back over, let's say, another 12 months out, that that's gonna be the case, okay?

   9. ABAlex Berenson6:31

      Well, there have been people that have been fully vaccinated who've died from COVID.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       Okay. All right.

   11. ABAlex Berenson6:34

       And it's publicly... There was one that was...... crazy, where this woman was fully vaccinated, she got COVID, she died, and the, the headline was "Because some people didn't get vaccinated, my mom died."

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:50

       (laughs) Yeah.

   13. ABAlex Berenson6:50

       And I was like, "What the fuck did you just say?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:52

       But, but Joe, it's much worse than that. You say some people, like it's rare. In, in the UK, okay, and the best data we have comes out of the UK and Israel. And I, I, I have to keep saying this to people because they almost don't believe it. In the UK, 70+% of the people who die now from COVID are fully vaccinated. And in Israel, that was-

   15. ABAlex Berenson7:11

       70%?

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:12

       ... 70%, seven in 10 of the people. I'm gonna keep saying it 'cause nobody believes it, but the numbers are there in the government documents, okay? They're not a secret. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not somebody saying, "Oh, I heard this from my cousin." It's in British government documents.

   17. ABAlex Berenson7:27

       Can you put, put that up so-

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       Sure.

   19. ABAlex Berenson7:29

       ... that Jamie can see it?

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       Sure.

   21. ABAlex Berenson7:30

       Can you tell Jamie which, uh ...

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:31

       Uh, if you go to, um, it, it's called the Technical Briefing, uh, uh, from the UK Public Health England. If you look at variants of concern, you should be able to pull up, uh, uh, uh, Google should have a couple pages for you, and then I can walk you through where it is. But, but just to be clear on this, seven out of 10 of the people dying of COVID in the UK now are fully vaccinated, and another 5% or so are partly vaccinated, meaning they had one shot but not the second. That was also the case in Israel until August, I mean, in August. And that's why they freaked out and made everyone get boosters, 'cause when you get the booster, you briefly drive up your antibodies. We don't know what the long-term effects are, but in the short term, that makes the numbers look better for vaccines.

   23. ABAlex Berenson8:17

       (sighs) This is crazy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:19

       (laughs)

5. 8:20 – 14:02

   Ivermectin controversy: anecdotes vs clinical trials and the ‘horse dewormer’ media line

   1. ABAlex Berenson8:20

      W- w- what's, what's crazy is that, um, I know a lot of people that got vaccinated and then immediately stopped taking vitamins. A, a good friend of mine, h- he got vaccinated and then he got COVID after he got vaccinated. He goes, "You know what, man? Once I got vaccinated, I stopped taking vitamins."

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:35

      (laughs)

   3. ABAlex Berenson8:35

      "I stopped, I stopped." 'Cause before that he was taking zinc and vitamin C and quercetin, and he was like really keeping up on his vitamin regimen and making sure that he was ... And then once he got vaccinated, he was like, "Oh, we're good. (sighs) I made it." And then he got COVID.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:49

      And then he got COVID. And he probably was okay, right, in the end, but he probably would've been okay either way.

   5. ABAlex Berenson8:54

      He was okay. He wasn't feeling so good, and his doctor prescribed him ivermectin.

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:58

      Ah, ivermectin.

   7. ABAlex Berenson8:59

      And this, this is before the ivermectin horse dewormer craze-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:04

      (laughs)

   9. ABAlex Berenson9:04

      ... became public, uh, disinformation campaign number one. Um, but ivermectin essentially knocked him out of it. He, he was good within 24 hours after taking ivermectin.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       So I'm gonna say something you don't like.

   11. ABAlex Berenson9:14

       No, do-

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       We, we have no idea if ivermectin works or doesn't.

   13. ABAlex Berenson9:17

       Well-

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       I know it worked for you.

   15. ABAlex Berenson9:18

       ... but we do know it works in vitro. We do know that, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Uh, y- yes, but the argument is that it's given ... Okay.

   17. ABAlex Berenson9:25

       Explain that, that it w- how it works in vitro.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       Okay. So the idea is that it interferes with the binding of, uh, of SARS-CoV-2 to your cells.

   19. ABAlex Berenson9:34

       It stops viral replication in vitro, though.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       Y- Yes.

   21. ABAlex Berenson9:38

       I can, I can show you the studies on that.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       But, but, but the old joke about this is it's easy to cure cancer in mice, okay?

   23. ABAlex Berenson9:42

       Right, right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       Human beings are complicated, and the argument that people... uh, the anti-ivermectin argument people make is in doses that would be another ... i- if you dose it for humans at the levels that it, that it blocks that replication in vitro, you'd kill humans. So in other words, it's not ... it's-

   25. ABAlex Berenson10:01

       Really?

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:01

       Yes.

   27. ABAlex Berenson10:01

       Kill humans?

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       I'm exagger-

   29. ABAlex Berenson10:03

       I don't know if that's true because it's, it's not really a toxic drug.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       Uh, I, I'm, I'm exaggerating. But what ... The point is, th- that I'm trying to make is that at the levels that it's given in humans, which I think is less than a milligram per kilogram of body weight, it doesn't have-
6. 14:02 – 17:25

   Coordinated messaging and information control: Trusted News Initiative, Google search curation, and redefining ‘anti-vax’

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:02

      Well, there's something called the Trusted News Initiative, which is a consortium of companies, and this is sort of semi-public, it's not totally hidden, you can find a couple news stories about it, but they're certainly not going out of their way to talk about it. It includes like Reuters and the BBC, and I believe the Associated Press and w- The Washington Post. I gotta, I do- I gotta go check. But it also includes Facebook. And this, and this is basically we're gonna, we're gonna all get on the same page when we talk to you about COVID. So when masks didn't work, remember the beginning, masks didn't work, we're gonna all tell you not to buy masks. And then when they, you know, when all of a sudden we decide they do work, you should all wear masks. It's, and, and the propaganda, I mean, it's the only word for this, is propaganda, has gotten worse and worse and worse month by month, and it has gotten, you know, with ivermectin and the vaccines, it has reached new heights.

   2. ABAlex Berenson14:51

      What is the source of all this? Like where, what's the epicenter of bullshit?

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:56

      The, oh, that's so, you know, is it, is it, uh, is it Johns Hopkins? Is it, uh, is it sort of the Gates Foundation?

   4. ABAlex Berenson15:03

      Well, let's look at specifically in my case.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      Oh.

   6. ABAlex Berenson15:05

      Like when they're saying horse dewormer, like why?

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      I-

   8. ABAlex Berenson15:09

      Who, who's doing that?

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:10

      So, so there, you know, there, there are pollsters out there who are looking at focus groups and they're looking at the li-... Remember, "It's your turn"? Remember, "Get the vaccine when it's your turn"?

   10. ABAlex Berenson15:20

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       That was focus group tested. Okay? So when they're talking about horse dewormer, there's somebody out there who's spending a couple million bucks a month or whatever it is, to make sure that, you know, oh, if this is not for humans, it's for animals. They are testing all that language. And that is one reason why, uh, i- i- you know, it sounds so similar.

   12. ABAlex Berenson15:38

       It's one of the reasons why I stopped using Google to search things too.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       (laughs)

   14. ABAlex Berenson15:40

       They're doing, they're doing something to curate information where like if I wanted to find specific cases about people who died from vaccine, uh, related injuries, I had to go to DuckDuckGo.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Yeah.

   16. ABAlex Berenson15:51

       I wasn't, I wasn't finding them on Google.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       Yes. Yes.

   18. ABAlex Berenson15:54

       And I'm like, "Okay, well, this is crazy."

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       Yes.

   20. ABAlex Berenson15:56

       "Like you, you guys are hiding information." I'm looking for very specific people and very specific cases, and, um, I'm getting CDC websites and I'm getting, you know, uh, articles on the, the, the disinformation attached to, to vaccines and vaccines being safe and effective, which for the most part they are, just like peanuts-

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Right.

   22. ABAlex Berenson16:14

       ... are safe and effective for the most part.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Well, (laughs) ...

   24. ABAlex Berenson16:16

       You know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Well, I mean, but again, we can... Listen, I've been vaccinated against everything, well, you know, as a child. I'm, uh, not COVID, okay, I'm not vaccinated against COVID, but I'm talking about am I an anti-vaxxer? No.

   26. ABAlex Berenson16:26

       Do you know the newest Webster definition of anti-vax includes someone who's against vaccine mandates or someone who's against vaccinating children?

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Seriously?

   28. ABAlex Berenson16:35

       Yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       I did not know that. (laughs)

   30. ABAlex Berenson16:36

       Yeah, we'll pull this up because this is new. They've, they've, they've updated the term anti-vaxxer to not just mean someone who believes in fucking apple cider vinegar cures cancer-
7. 17:25 – 19:58

   Kids, risk tradeoffs, and myocarditis: vaccine policy debates for adolescents

   1. ABAlex Berenson17:25

      Do you know that, I mean, there's, there's actually statistics now that show that for boys it is more dangerous to be vaccinated than it is to get COVID?

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:34

      Oh, yeah. For, uh, for, for, for adolescent boys, absolutely.

   3. ABAlex Berenson17:37

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:37

      You have, uh, the, the, the rates of myocarditis, I don't think anybody's disputing now. They're in the w- uh, and this is hospitalizations, okay?

   5. ABAlex Berenson17:44

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:44

      Th-

   7. ABAlex Berenson17:44

      And this isn't even unreported.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:46

      That's-

   9. ABAlex Berenson17:46

      And under-reported.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:47

       That's right. So one in 5,000 is, uh, is... Okay, so that doesn't necessarily sound like that much, but if you're a healthy adolescent, your odds of dying from COVID are in the one in a million range. And I will stand by that number. You can, you can, the, I, I... So about 400-

   11. ABAlex Berenson18:01

       They're very low.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:02

       They're very, very low.

   13. ABAlex Berenson18:04

       I think all told children deaths from COVID haven't cracked 500.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:08

       Th- that is correct. But what you, what you don't realize when you s- when you quote that number is first of all the CDC says about 45% of those cases were completely incidental. In other words, it was somebody w- somebody w- with cancer or somebody who was in a car accident who tested positive, for kids, okay? So cut it by 45%. Of the cases that are left, and there is good data on this, those kids for the most part are profoundly ill. I mean, I mean they, they're like they have severe genetic defects, they have, uh, cancer that's late stage, they're...... to, to try to find cases of healthy children who have died from COVID is next to impossible.

   15. ABAlex Berenson18:47

       Did you s- but w- meanwhile, the flu is dangerous for children, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:50

       Uh-

   17. ABAlex Berenson18:50

       But did you see Fauci publicly declare that COVID is more dangerous for children than the flu?

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:57

       Yes. But, ne- the flu isn't that dangerous for kids either, but e- but-

   19. ABAlex Berenson19:00

       But it's dangerous enough. Like, I, I have a, a, a friend who's, I mean, it's kind of like three people removed, but one of his friend's children died from the flu.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:10

       D- it can happen.

   21. ABAlex Berenson19:11

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:11

       There's also something called RSV, which is extremely dangerous-

   23. ABAlex Berenson19:14

       Yes.

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:14

       ... for little kids.

   25. ABAlex Berenson19:15

       Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:15

       And, and that has come roaring back this year, and nobody can quite explain why. But it may be because, uh, you know, we, we kept all our kids at home, we didn't let them trade it around last year, and all of a sudden it's back. And-

   27. ABAlex Berenson19:26

       And th- yeah, their immune systems get compromised because of the inactivity.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       E- e- yes. I mean, they, we're meant to be outside trading germs with each other.

   29. ABAlex Berenson19:34

       Yeah. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       Um-
8. 19:58 – 54:08

   How mRNA vaccines work—and why immunity may wane faster than natural infection

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:58

      Uh, same thing with me. Um, so, so by the way, you're, you're talking about, uh, the Webster thing, and the dictionary, it reminded me, the CDC has changed its definition of vaccine, believe it or not.

   2. ABAlex Berenson20:09

      To include gene therapies?

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:11

      No. What they're now saying is that vaccines, uh, don't need to confer immunity. If they have a protective effect, it's considered a vaccine. So by that definition, actually vitamin C might be considered a vaccine.

   4. ABAlex Berenson20:26

      Was the flu shot thought ... I mean, we always called it the shot, but did you ... Was it ever referred to as the flu vaccine? 'Cause people get the flu shot every year.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:33

      It was considered a vaccine, even though it's not very effective. It's, uh, um, uh, you know, it's funny. What's happened is if you think about what vaccines were, you know, like the measles vaccine or the smallpox vaccine, they were effectively 100% effective for your whole life. Now, uh, of course some people many years later might, might have a breakthrough infection, but it was called a breakthrough 'cause it was so rare. And, and so, you know, you know, you get the MMR vaccine as a, as a little kid and you never get measles. Somehow I don't understand this, like weird mind meld that Pfizer and Moderna and BioNTech have performed on the government and on the media where they have convinced people that these things, which by no classical definition are vaccines, they don't work like vaccines, they don't have the duration of protection of vaccines, and, and, and you can still get very sick and die post-vaccination are vaccines.

   6. ABAlex Berenson21:28

      We should explain to people that maybe don't know what th- just in case someone's listening that do- doesn't know how a regular vaccine works. A regular vaccine, if it's for smallpox, has a, uh, an inert v- version of smallpox in it. So you can't catch it, but your body recognizes it, your body develops the immunity to smallpox, and then it fights it off. The-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:47

      That's basically ... Yeah.

   8. ABAlex Berenson21:48

      Yeah. Right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:49

      Yep.

   10. ABAlex Berenson21:49

       And these MRNA vaccines, which by, by the way, the, the technology's amazing and fascinating, and it seems to have like profound possibilities in terms of like the ability to fight cancer. Like, they have a lot of, like really interesting research on the horizon. So this is not demonizing the concept of MRNA vaccines. But what they essentially do is they, they tell your body to produce a certain spike protein, and this develops this ability to fight off the COVID v- variants and-

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:23

       So, so, so if you think of coronavirus, it, you know, it's called coronavirus 'cause it has this corona of spikes. Uh, it's got ... It looks like a ball and it's got these nasty little spikes poking off it.

   12. ABAlex Berenson22:32

       Is there a real photo of one of those things?

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:34

       Um, it's not ... The- it's all sort of computer generated. It's too small to, uh, to take a proper photo of.

   14. ABAlex Berenson22:38

       So how do they know it's got the spikes?

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:40

       'Cause they know what the shape is f- because they have the, um, they have the complete genetic code, um, and then, and they know what, uh, antibody ... I'm sorry, what, um, what amino acids it produces and they know what those look like.

   16. ABAlex Berenson22:53

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:54

       So I mean, biology is magic these days. I mean, it's truly magic.

   18. ABAlex Berenson22:57

       'Cause it ... at such small levels of-

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:59

       Th- they can predict-

   20. ABAlex Berenson23:01

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:01

       ... wha- how this thing's gonna fold on itself.

   22. ABAlex Berenson23:02

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:03

       Okay? And they can actually predict what the mutations will cause the co- the, the structural confirmation of this thing which is, you know, so small you can't imagine how small it is. They can imagine how it's gonna look and, and when I say imagine, it's really predict. Okay? And then they can predict how it's going to attach to your cells. So long story short on that, they know what the spike protein looks like and they know how to make your body make it. So, so when you get the vaccine, as you say, you're not getting a whole inactivated coronavirus. That's, um ... The Chinese vaccines are, use that technology. Uh, it's-

   24. ABAlex Berenson23:37

       Do they?

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:38

       Yes. Uh-

   26. ABAlex Berenson23:39

       How ... And is that more effective?

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:40

       No, it's less effective for-

   28. ABAlex Berenson23:41

       Really?

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Yes. Um, a- and for whatever reason, with respiratory viruses, the whole inactivated virus thing, or the, it's sometimes called attenuated virus, doesn't work very well for ... We, we don't quite know why.

   30. ABAlex Berenson23:53

       But I thought that, um, they thought that this was a respiratory virus, but really it's attacking the epithelial-
9. 54:08 – 1:16:39

   Interpreting UK technical briefings: base rates, infection rates by age, and what ‘most deaths vaccinated’ means

   1. JRJoe Rogan54:08

      I- I- well... I- var-... If you Google Variants of Concern UK Technical Briefing.

   2. ABAlex Berenson54:16

      Here it is.

   3. JRJoe Rogan54:17

      Okay. Uh... Oh. Tech- they've got 24 out now. That- that must have just come out. Uh, uh, so go to 24. And this'll be, uh... This'll be exciting for me too 'cause I haven't seen this too.

   4. ABAlex Berenson54:29

      Yeah, I was trying to figure out where in here I was supposed to look, but I started digging through stuff.

   5. JRJoe Rogan54:32

      Oh. Okay. Go- it's... Go down, down, down, down and-

   6. ABAlex Berenson54:34

      All right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan54:34

      Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Yep. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep go- uh, keep going.

   8. ABAlex Berenson54:39

      What are we looking for?

   9. JRJoe Rogan54:39

      Keep going, keep going. Okay. Uh, uh, okay. So this tells you, uh, as of... So as of the 27th of September there were, uh, there were 3,200 deaths, uh, from the Delta variant. Okay? Um, it... So that's gonna be... The Delta variant is almost all the cases these days, not just in the UK but everywhere in the world. So go d- go down some more.... uh, some more, some more, some more. And keep going, keep going, keep going. Secondary attack rates, uh, keep going, uh, keep going. Modern- and this is, this is variant stuff. Uh, keep going. Don't tell me they took it out. I don't think they took it out. Uh, keep going, keep going, keep going. Wha- Well, that's interesting. Uh, we may need to go back to the previous one, 'cause it's not in here. Uh, 20-

   10. ABAlex Berenson55:33

       What do you mean it's not? What's not in... Go to 23?

   11. JRJoe Rogan55:36

       Yeah, go to 23.

   12. ABAlex Berenson55:36

       Right below that?

   13. JRJoe Rogan55:38

       Uh...

   14. ABAlex Berenson55:38

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan55:38

       Unless it's in the underlying data.

   16. ABAlex Berenson55:40

       That's what, I mean, like-

   17. What are we looking for here? What would you-

   18. JRJoe Rogan55:42

       What we're looking for is figures that will tell... Uh, you know what? Let me, let me... I don't wanna, I don't wanna have to subject the audience to this. Um, let me find it.

   19. ABAlex Berenson55:52

       So, w- uh, while you're... I guess, I've, was digging through that and I found this interpretation of data. It just, this said that there's a lot of people in that age range that would be vaccinated.

   20. JRJoe Rogan56:02

       Yes.

   21. ABAlex Berenson56:02

       'Cause I found there's a lot of people-

   22. JRJoe Rogan56:03

       Oh. Oh.

   23. ABAlex Berenson56:03

       ... in, in one chart that said there was like 200,000 people that got it that were unvaccinated under the age of like 25 or something like that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan56:09

       Yes. Go down, go down one more page. Uh, okay. Okay. All right, so this is, uh, Week 34 through Week 37. That's gonna be basically September. Uh, so this tells you, um, the rates... Oh, yes. This is great. Rates of illness among people who have and have not been vaccinated, uh, over on the right. So, what you can see is that in people over 50, rates of illness are higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. You... 900 to 600 in people 50 to 60, 600 to 400 in people 60 to 70, 500 roughly to 360. In each of those cases, the number in the second-to-last graph lo- uh, in the second-to-last column is higher. So, what that's telling you is that people who are vaccinated with two doses are more likely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 than people who are not infect- who, who are not vaccinated.

   25. ABAlex Berenson57:11

       It's interesting how it changes somewhere around, uh, 40 to 49.

   26. JRJoe Rogan57:16

       That's right. And the, and the, and there's a good, there's a good scientific reason for that, which is basically there's, uh, something called immunosensenescence, which basically means that your immune system, as you get older, has a harder time dealing with disease, right? We all... You mean, that's, that's sort of like intuitively obvious. It also has a harder time mounting the response that the vaccines are supposed to help with.

   27. ABAlex Berenson57:38

       Hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan57:38

       So, so okay. So that's one, that's one chart. And again, this is UK government data, and what it says is that the idea that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is a total lie. You are more likely to become sick if you are vaccinated than if you are not, and you're over 50-

   29. ABAlex Berenson57:57

       In these older categories?

   30. JRJoe Rogan57:58

       In these older categories, that's right.

Episode duration: 3:21:16