Joe Rogan Experience #1717 - Alex Berenson

1. 0:00 – 3:01

   Twitter ban, censorship, and why “being right” became a liability

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, guys. (laughs) Hello, Joe.

   4. ABAlex Berenson0:14

      (laughs) What's it like to be in Twitter jail?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Well, you're not even in Twitter jail. You're, like, excommunicado. I'm, I'm banned, yeah.

   6. ABAlex Berenson0:20

      You're banned.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Permanently suspended.

   8. ABAlex Berenson0:22

      For telling the truth.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      For telling the truth. (laughs)

   10. ABAlex Berenson0:23

       That's what the fascinating thing is, y- everything that you were banned for is verifiable.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       (laughs)

   12. ABAlex Berenson0:29

       There's sources. You could go read those sources. I watched the whole process go down. I, I don't understand.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Um, yeah. Well, I'm not a naive guy, but I thought that being right would, would actually help, and it turns out being right hurts.

   14. ABAlex Berenson0:45

       Well, during this incredibly confusing time, where people are more hysterical and more freaked out and anxiety-filled than I've ever seen people in all of my 54 years of life, this is the peak.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       (laughs)

   16. ABAlex Berenson0:59

       This is, this is post-9/11 peak.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yes.

   18. ABAlex Berenson1:02

       Like, 9/11 was, uh, a big anxiety moment for people, but at least it brought us all together. This, because of whatever it is, it's... whether it's social media algorithms or it's just, just an- the inevitable decline of an empire or whatever the fuck it is-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       (coughs)

   20. ABAlex Berenson1:18

       ... we have hit a weird place right now.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Yeah. Yes. Um, I, you know, I would say, the people who were sort of very complacent about vaccinations, uh, and being vaccinated in the spring-

   22. ABAlex Berenson1:32

       (coughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       ... are now very angry. But they're angry (laughs) at the wrong people.

   24. ABAlex Berenson1:36

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       They're... somehow, they're blaming people who are not vaccinated. They should be blaming Pfizer and the lies that the CDC told them.

   26. ABAlex Berenson1:43

       Well, what's really interesting, there's almost no anger at the lab in Wuhan.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       (laughs) That's true, too.

   28. ABAlex Berenson1:50

       Very strange. Almost no anger. Almost none. It's almost like an inconvenient truth that most likely, this virus emerged from a lab. I mean, uh, Saagar Enjeti from, uh, Breaking Points broke down exactly when it went down, who were the initial people that got infected, how it most likely spread. Um, it's been documented by Josh Dubin extensively, the involvement of, uh, Fauci, the NIH, uh, the EcoHealth Alliance. All of the input, all of the deceptive public statements contrasted to the internal emails that showed a real concern that they might be responsible for it, a real concern that gain-of-function research might have been the cause of this, and no anger at that. But anger at people who are unvaccinated.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       (laughs)

   30. ABAlex Berenson2:46

       Even people who are unvaccinated and healthy. Even people who have taken care of their body for their entire life, exercised, ate right, take vitamins. People who are fit and who don't want to take a chance with anything else.

2. 3:01 – 5:21

   Replacing Twitter with Substack: audience, reach, and the economics of deplatforming

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:01

      I, b- yeah. I'll, I mean, just to, uh, y- yeah, it's funny you mention the lab leak. So, you know, I now have this Substack, which is sort of my inadequate effort to replace Twitter. I mean, I've-

   2. ABAlex Berenson3:09

      Tell people how to get to that, by the way.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:11

      So... Sure. So, uh, Substack is substack.com. My, uh, parti-... Substack is essentially a newsletter service and a hosting service, and they have guaranteed free expression. That's what, that's what they've said. They've said they're not gonna censor. Um, I have to choose to believe them on that. Uh, I, I believed in Twitter for a while. That confidence was clearly misplaced. But Substa- Substack says they're not gonna censor me, uh, or other people, and I gotta hope that's true. 'Cause-

   4. ABAlex Berenson3:35

      How many people do you have in your Substack now?

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      Uh, more than 150,000.

   6. ABAlex Berenson3:38

      That's nice.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:38

      Yes. E-

   8. ABAlex Berenson3:39

      Let's see if we can juice that up.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      Eh, I hope so.

   10. ABAlex Berenson3:41

       Yeah. Here it is, Unreported Truths.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:43

       Yes.

   12. ABAlex Berenson3:44

       So you type in your email, and then...

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       And you can subscribe. You can s-

   14. ABAlex Berenson3:46

       Yeah. Or you can just say, "Let me read it first."

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:48

       Yep. Oh-

   16. ABAlex Berenson3:48

       You don't have to subscribe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:49

       And you will see the fir-

   18. ABAlex Berenson3:51

       Beautiful.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       I... Excited to be in Austin to talk to Joe Rogan today.

   20. ABAlex Berenson3:54

       Yeah. Beautiful.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       Um, and so, uh, so you... By the way, most of the people who are s- who are signed up do not pay. You can choose to pay or not pay. Basically, you're gonna get the same content. I'm very clear about that. There will be a few things extra you get. But for the most part, this is not... it's not about money for me. It's about getting the largest audience possible. Um, and so I have more than 150,000 people signed up right now. But I gotta tell you, Twitter, on Twitter I had 350,000, 345,000, and that was growing, uh, by about 1,000 a day towards the end. And, um, I had 25 million profile views in August, and almost 200 million, uh, impressions. So Twitter, in, i- in cutting me off, Twitter not only defamed me, they really hurt m- my efforts to get the word out.

   22. ABAlex Berenson4:43

       Well, it's also one of the very best examples that I think I've ever come across of egregious censorship that is ideologically based and not based on anyone doing anything that is, uh, whether it's... w- what I... I don't know what their code of conduct is, whether it's about someone being malicious, or it's about someone being untruthful or misrepresentation of the facts. You did none of those things.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       None of those things, (laughs) no.

   24. ABAlex Berenson5:07

       You really didn't. I mean, I watched it very carefully. I mean, you and I went back and forth with DMs, and I, I, I watched your, your feed very carefully.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       And you would ask me questions, some- And I'd say, "You know, Joe, I disagree with this."

   26. ABAlex Berenson5:18

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       "I, I... You know, you can't go this far."

   28. ABAlex Berenson5:20

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:20

       I would say that to you. Um, uh-

3. 5:21 – 8:54

   Vaccine narrative whiplash: breakthrough infections, shifting goalposts, and UK/Israel data

   1. ABAlex Berenson5:21

      Well, you were very... Yeah. You're, you're very... I'm gonna say very objective about your interpretation of the data and what you think is going on versus, you know, what is, uh, being purported. And I should say, f- first of all, right away, you were correct about a lot of the data, uh, particularly coming out of Israel. You sounded the warning shots long before anyone else that not only do the vaccines have, uh, a certain l- there's a, like, a window of, of, uh, efficacy-

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      Yep.

   3. ABAlex Berenson5:52

      ... whether it's three months or five months, whatever it is-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:54

      It's in there, yeah.

   5. ABAlex Berenson5:55

      Yeah. But you were saying that people who are vaccinated are getting sick, and people were treating that like you were saying that vampires were rising.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:03

      (laughs) That's what-

   7. ABAlex Berenson6:04

      It was crazy. It was crazy to watch. They were saying, "You're lying," but now that's the narrative. The narrative is like, "The vaccines were never supposed to prevent you from getting sick. They're supposed to keep you from being hospitalized."

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:14

      Not, not even that anymore. Now it's basically, "They'll prevent you from dying," which, which also probably... I mean, there's, there's, there's evidence, there's some evidence of benefit of really serious illness or death. But I'm not even convinced we're gonna... when we look back over, let's say, another 12 months out, that that's gonna be the case, okay?

   9. ABAlex Berenson6:31

      Well, there have been people that have been fully vaccinated who've died from COVID.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       Okay. All right.

   11. ABAlex Berenson6:34

       And it's publicly... There was one that was...... crazy, where this woman was fully vaccinated, she got COVID, she died, and the, the headline was "Because some people didn't get vaccinated, my mom died."

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:50

       (laughs) Yeah.

   13. ABAlex Berenson6:50

       And I was like, "What the fuck did you just say?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:52

       But, but Joe, it's much worse than that. You say some people, like it's rare. In, in the UK, okay, and the best data we have comes out of the UK and Israel. And I, I, I have to keep saying this to people because they almost don't believe it. In the UK, 70+% of the people who die now from COVID are fully vaccinated. And in Israel, that was-

   15. ABAlex Berenson7:11

       70%?

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:12

       ... 70%, seven in 10 of the people. I'm gonna keep saying it 'cause nobody believes it, but the numbers are there in the government documents, okay? They're not a secret. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's not somebody saying, "Oh, I heard this from my cousin." It's in British government documents.

   17. ABAlex Berenson7:27

       Can you put, put that up so-

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       Sure.

   19. ABAlex Berenson7:29

       ... that Jamie can see it?

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       Sure.

   21. ABAlex Berenson7:30

       Can you tell Jamie which, uh ...

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:31

       Uh, if you go to, um, it, it's called the Technical Briefing, uh, uh, from the UK Public Health England. If you look at variants of concern, you should be able to pull up, uh, uh, uh, Google should have a couple pages for you, and then I can walk you through where it is. But, but just to be clear on this, seven out of 10 of the people dying of COVID in the UK now are fully vaccinated, and another 5% or so are partly vaccinated, meaning they had one shot but not the second. That was also the case in Israel until August, I mean, in August. And that's why they freaked out and made everyone get boosters, 'cause when you get the booster, you briefly drive up your antibodies. We don't know what the long-term effects are, but in the short term, that makes the numbers look better for vaccines.

   23. ABAlex Berenson8:17

       (sighs) This is crazy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:19

       (laughs)

   25. ABAlex Berenson8:20

       W- w- what's, what's crazy is that, um, I know a lot of people that got vaccinated and then immediately stopped taking vitamins. A, a good friend of mine, h- he got vaccinated and then he got COVID after he got vaccinated. He goes, "You know what, man? Once I got vaccinated, I stopped taking vitamins."

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       (laughs)

   27. ABAlex Berenson8:35

       "I stopped, I stopped." 'Cause before that he was taking zinc and vitamin C and quercetin, and he was like really keeping up on his vitamin regimen and making sure that he was ... And then once he got vaccinated, he was like, "Oh, we're good. (sighs) I made it." And then he got COVID.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       And then he got COVID. And he probably was okay, right, in the end, but he probably would've been okay either way.

4. 8:54 – 15:38

   Ivermectin and the “horse dewormer” framing: evidence limits, propaganda, and media coordination

   1. ABAlex Berenson8:54

      He was okay. He wasn't feeling so good, and his doctor prescribed him ivermectin.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:58

      Ah, ivermectin.

   3. ABAlex Berenson8:59

      And this, this is before the ivermectin horse dewormer craze-

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:04

      (laughs)

   5. ABAlex Berenson9:04

      ... became public, uh, disinformation campaign number one. Um, but ivermectin essentially knocked him out of it. He, he was good within 24 hours after taking ivermectin.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:13

      So I'm gonna say something you don't like.

   7. ABAlex Berenson9:14

      No, do-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:15

      We, we have no idea if ivermectin works or doesn't.

   9. ABAlex Berenson9:17

      Well-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       I know it worked for you.

   11. ABAlex Berenson9:18

       ... but we do know it works in vitro. We do know that, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Uh, y- yes, but the argument is that it's given ... Okay.

   13. ABAlex Berenson9:25

       Explain that, that it w- how it works in vitro.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:27

       Okay. So the idea is that it interferes with the binding of, uh, of SARS-CoV-2 to your cells.

   15. ABAlex Berenson9:34

       It stops viral replication in vitro, though.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       Y- Yes.

   17. ABAlex Berenson9:38

       I can, I can show you the studies on that.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:38

       But, but, but the old joke about this is it's easy to cure cancer in mice, okay?

   19. ABAlex Berenson9:42

       Right, right.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:43

       Human beings are complicated, and the argument that people... uh, the anti-ivermectin argument people make is in doses that would be another ... i- if you dose it for humans at the levels that it, that it blocks that replication in vitro, you'd kill humans. So in other words, it's not ... it's-

   21. ABAlex Berenson10:01

       Really?

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:01

       Yes.

   23. ABAlex Berenson10:01

       Kill humans?

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       I'm exagger-

   25. ABAlex Berenson10:03

       I don't know if that's true because it's, it's not really a toxic drug.

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       Uh, I, I'm, I'm exaggerating. But what ... The point is, th- that I'm trying to make is that at the levels that it's given in humans, which I think is less than a milligram per kilogram of body weight, it doesn't have-

   27. ABAlex Berenson10:17

       Yeah, it's, uh, six.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:18

       0.6, right?

   29. ABAlex Berenson10:19

       .06, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       That it hasn't been shown at those levels in vitro to work.
5. 15:38 – 21:28

   Search and language control: Google results, redefining “anti-vax,” and mandate politics

   1. ABAlex Berenson15:38

      It's one of the reasons why I stopped using Google to search things too.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:40

      (laughs)

   3. ABAlex Berenson15:40

      They're doing, they're doing something to curate information where like if I wanted to find specific cases about people who died from vaccine, uh, related injuries, I had to go to DuckDuckGo.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:51

      Yeah.

   5. ABAlex Berenson15:51

      I wasn't, I wasn't finding them on Google.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:53

      Yes. Yes.

   7. ABAlex Berenson15:54

      And I'm like, "Okay, well, this is crazy."

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:56

      Yes.

   9. ABAlex Berenson15:56

      "Like you, you guys are hiding information." I'm looking for very specific people and very specific cases, and, um, I'm getting CDC websites and I'm getting, you know, uh, articles on the, the, the disinformation attached to, to vaccines and vaccines being safe and effective, which for the most part they are, just like peanuts-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Right.

   11. ABAlex Berenson16:14

       ... are safe and effective for the most part.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       Well, (laughs) ...

   13. ABAlex Berenson16:16

       You know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Well, I mean, but again, we can... Listen, I've been vaccinated against everything, well, you know, as a child. I'm, uh, not COVID, okay, I'm not vaccinated against COVID, but I'm talking about am I an anti-vaxxer? No.

   15. ABAlex Berenson16:26

       Do you know the newest Webster definition of anti-vax includes someone who's against vaccine mandates or someone who's against vaccinating children?

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Seriously?

   17. ABAlex Berenson16:35

       Yes.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       I did not know that. (laughs)

   19. ABAlex Berenson16:36

       Yeah, we'll pull this up because this is new. They've, they've, they've updated the term anti-vaxxer to not just mean someone who believes in fucking apple cider vinegar cures cancer-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       (laughs)

   21. ABAlex Berenson16:47

       ... like these wacky fucks-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       Right, right, right.

   23. ABAlex Berenson16:48

       ... but someone who thinks that vaccine mandates are a dangerous slippery slope to fascism. Now you're an anti-vaxxer. Like you have to fully buy into the narrative or you get labeled this very-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       It's-

   25. ABAlex Berenson17:00

       ... pejorative, uh, look at this. Definition of an, person who opposes the use of vaccine or regulations-

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       What?

   27. ABAlex Berenson17:06

       ... mandating a vaccination.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       No, I, that's incredible to me.

   29. ABAlex Berenson17:10

       It is incredible. It's dirty, man.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       It's dir-... By, by the way, Jimmy, if you haven't been able to find that, I can, uh, I can try to, uh, to walk you through.
6. 21:28 – 29:04

   How mRNA vaccines work—and why protection may wane faster than natural infection

   1. ABAlex Berenson21:28

      We should explain to people that maybe don't know what th- just in case someone's listening that do- doesn't know how a regular vaccine works. A regular vaccine, if it's for smallpox, has a, uh, an inert v- version of smallpox in it. So you can't catch it, but your body recognizes it, your body develops the immunity to smallpox, and then it fights it off. The-

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:47

      That's basically ... Yeah.

   3. ABAlex Berenson21:48

      Yeah. Right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:49

      Yep.

   5. ABAlex Berenson21:49

      And these MRNA vaccines, which by, by the way, the, the technology's amazing and fascinating, and it seems to have like profound possibilities in terms of like the ability to fight cancer. Like, they have a lot of, like really interesting research on the horizon. So this is not demonizing the concept of MRNA vaccines. But what they essentially do is they, they tell your body to produce a certain spike protein, and this develops this ability to fight off the COVID v- variants and-

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:23

      So, so, so if you think of coronavirus, it, you know, it's called coronavirus 'cause it has this corona of spikes. Uh, it's got ... It looks like a ball and it's got these nasty little spikes poking off it.

   7. ABAlex Berenson22:32

      Is there a real photo of one of those things?

   8. JRJoe Rogan22:34

      Um, it's not ... The- it's all sort of computer generated. It's too small to, uh, to take a proper photo of.

   9. ABAlex Berenson22:38

      So how do they know it's got the spikes?

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:40

       'Cause they know what the shape is f- because they have the, um, they have the complete genetic code, um, and then, and they know what, uh, antibody ... I'm sorry, what, um, what amino acids it produces and they know what those look like.

   11. ABAlex Berenson22:53

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:54

       So I mean, biology is magic these days. I mean, it's truly magic.

   13. ABAlex Berenson22:57

       'Cause it ... at such small levels of-

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:59

       Th- they can predict-

   15. ABAlex Berenson23:01

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:01

       ... wha- how this thing's gonna fold on itself.

   17. ABAlex Berenson23:02

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:03

       Okay? And they can actually predict what the mutations will cause the co- the, the structural confirmation of this thing which is, you know, so small you can't imagine how small it is. They can imagine how it's gonna look and, and when I say imagine, it's really predict. Okay? And then they can predict how it's going to attach to your cells. So long story short on that, they know what the spike protein looks like and they know how to make your body make it. So, so when you get the vaccine, as you say, you're not getting a whole inactivated coronavirus. That's, um ... The Chinese vaccines are, use that technology. Uh, it's-

   19. ABAlex Berenson23:37

       Do they?

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:38

       Yes. Uh-

   21. ABAlex Berenson23:39

       How ... And is that more effective?

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:40

       No, it's less effective for-

   23. ABAlex Berenson23:41

       Really?

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Yes. Um, a- and for whatever reason, with respiratory viruses, the whole inactivated virus thing, or the, it's sometimes called attenuated virus, doesn't work very well for ... We, we don't quite know why.

   25. ABAlex Berenson23:53

       But I thought that, um, they thought that this was a respiratory virus, but really it's attacking the epithelial-

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:00

       It's both. Both.

   27. ABAlex Berenson24:02

       Both.

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:02

       So you have, you have the receptors that this virus attacks all over your body, in both your lungs ... It- there's a ton in your lungs, but there's also a ton in the smooth muscle cells of your, of your, um, vasculature.

   29. ABAlex Berenson24:13

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:13

       So, uh, so it is a, it is a ... It does have vascular complications, this virus. So, so you ... So, so you get this vaccine, it's a little bundle of RNA, in the case of the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccines, which is, which is stuck inside, um, what's called the lipid nanoparticle. Again, incredible technology. That, that bundle of RNA gets into your cells, actually just like the virus would, um, and it tells your cells, "Make the spike protein."So you then have a ton of spike protein in, in these cells. Now one of the promises about the vaccine that has turned out not to be true is you're only gonna have those spike proteins in a, basically near the injection site. And turns out, unfortunately, some of them... some vaccine appears to leak and travel.
7. 29:04 – 54:08

   Variant escape and worst-case immunology: from mutation selection to ADE fears

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:04

      So here's the p- here... of, of, of the many, many... there are many, many problems around vaccine immunity. Because your immunity is so tailored to the spike protein, and not just the spike protein, to one part of it, to the receptor binding domain it's called of the spike protein, if the virus mutates just a little bit in that part, those vaccine antibodies you have don't work very well anymore. And you don't have the backup stuff that you get w- as... uh, you know, you personally and everybody else who's been infected and recovered gets.

   2. ABAlex Berenson29:37

      Yeah, I was reading something about that today. I actually made a note about it because I knew it was gonna come up on the podcast today because, uh, I found, I found this, uh, discussion of it to be pretty interesting. But this one guy had this take on it where he said that, um, that natural immunity is demonstratably more... demonstrably more generalized and robust to variant mutations, and that the vaccines are designed to be specifically targeted, and that's what allowed them to get created so quickly. Is that like-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Yes, that's absolutely correct.

   4. ABAlex Berenson30:08

      ... an accurate assessment of it?

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      Well, I mean, think about, think about it. You're the virus, okay? I mean, the virus doesn't think, okay, but it wants to survive. If, if, you know, different human beings are gonna have somewhat different responses to natural infection. The vaccine response is always the same, okay, 'cause the vaccine is always the same.

   6. ABAlex Berenson30:29

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:29

      So the vaccine response is we're gonna generate a ton of antibodies for this one particular part of the spike protein. Well, the virus, quote-unquote, "knows" that if it can just mutate that bit of itself-... it will escape vaccination, right? It will escape vaccine immunity, I should say. And that's what the virus appears to be doing. And there's a paper out of Japan from August where these researchers demonst- and these are all first rate, okay? These are first rate academic institutions that are doing this. They demonstrated that four relatively small vacs- uh, four relatively small mutations on SARS-CoV-2 could lead to escape for the vaccine, uh, from vaccine-generated immunity.

   8. ABAlex Berenson31:13

      Escape meansing- meaning that the vaccine-generated immunity would be non-existent?

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:18

      Or, or close to non-existent. Th- that's not the worst case scenario, by the way. The worst case scenario is that the virus mutates in a way that the vaccine actually, it's called, this is why it's called antibody-dependent enhancement. The va- the antibodies continue to be able to attach to part of the va- uh, of the virus, but the virus has mutated in a way that the- that after attaching, they actually help it bind to cells.

   10. ABAlex Berenson31:46

       Okay. Now, someone sent me something today from very fishy looking GeoCities type website that was claiming that there was some Department of Defense-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:55

       Yes.

   12. ABAlex Berenson31:55

       ... artificial intelligence. Have you heard-

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       Yes.

   14. ABAlex Berenson31:57

       ... that this is going around?

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:58

       I, I, yeah, I thought it was BS, but I think it's actually totally true. We can pull it up. It's, it's correct.

   16. ABAlex Berenson32:03

       Really?

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:03

       Yes. It d- by the way, it, it's called Humetrics. Um-

   18. ABAlex Berenson32:08

       I read the w-

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       I still want you to find this other thing, though.

   20. ABAlex Berenson32:10

       Okay.

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       By the way, the, the, the-

   22. ABAlex Berenson32:11

       Jamie's doubling overtime with the fucking-

   23. All right, well, yeah, yeah.

   24. ... one-handed Googling.

   25. Let me, let, let's do that first before I go into Humetrics 'cause-

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:16

       Yeah, 'cause I don't want, I don't want-

   27. ABAlex Berenson32:17

       ... that sounds like a left turn.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:18

       ... I don't want people to, you know, I, especially since I said 70% and I know that's such a stunning number, I don't want people to think I made that up.

   29. ABAlex Berenson32:24

       Yes, let's go over that first. So s-

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       Uh-huh.
8. 54:08 – 1:08:46

   Reading the UK Technical Briefing live: infections, deaths, and base-rate confusion

   1. JRJoe Rogan54:08

      I- I- well... I- var-... If you Google Variants of Concern UK Technical Briefing.

   2. ABAlex Berenson54:16

      Here it is.

   3. JRJoe Rogan54:17

      Okay. Uh... Oh. Tech- they've got 24 out now. That- that must have just come out. Uh, uh, so go to 24. And this'll be, uh... This'll be exciting for me too 'cause I haven't seen this too.

   4. ABAlex Berenson54:29

      Yeah, I was trying to figure out where in here I was supposed to look, but I started digging through stuff.

   5. JRJoe Rogan54:32

      Oh. Okay. Go- it's... Go down, down, down, down and-

   6. ABAlex Berenson54:34

      All right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan54:34

      Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Yep. Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep go- uh, keep going.

   8. ABAlex Berenson54:39

      What are we looking for?

   9. JRJoe Rogan54:39

      Keep going, keep going. Okay. Uh, uh, okay. So this tells you, uh, as of... So as of the 27th of September there were, uh, there were 3,200 deaths, uh, from the Delta variant. Okay? Um, it... So that's gonna be... The Delta variant is almost all the cases these days, not just in the UK but everywhere in the world. So go d- go down some more.... uh, some more, some more, some more. And keep going, keep going, keep going. Secondary attack rates, uh, keep going, uh, keep going. Modern- and this is, this is variant stuff. Uh, keep going. Don't tell me they took it out. I don't think they took it out. Uh, keep going, keep going, keep going. Wha- Well, that's interesting. Uh, we may need to go back to the previous one, 'cause it's not in here. Uh, 20-

   10. ABAlex Berenson55:33

       What do you mean it's not? What's not in... Go to 23?

   11. JRJoe Rogan55:36

       Yeah, go to 23.

   12. ABAlex Berenson55:36

       Right below that?

   13. JRJoe Rogan55:38

       Uh...

   14. ABAlex Berenson55:38

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan55:38

       Unless it's in the underlying data.

   16. ABAlex Berenson55:40

       That's what, I mean, like-

   17. What are we looking for here? What would you-

   18. JRJoe Rogan55:42

       What we're looking for is figures that will tell... Uh, you know what? Let me, let me... I don't wanna, I don't wanna have to subject the audience to this. Um, let me find it.

   19. ABAlex Berenson55:52

       So, w- uh, while you're... I guess, I've, was digging through that and I found this interpretation of data. It just, this said that there's a lot of people in that age range that would be vaccinated.

   20. JRJoe Rogan56:02

       Yes.

   21. ABAlex Berenson56:02

       'Cause I found there's a lot of people-

   22. JRJoe Rogan56:03

       Oh. Oh.

   23. ABAlex Berenson56:03

       ... in, in one chart that said there was like 200,000 people that got it that were unvaccinated under the age of like 25 or something like that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan56:09

       Yes. Go down, go down one more page. Uh, okay. Okay. All right, so this is, uh, Week 34 through Week 37. That's gonna be basically September. Uh, so this tells you, um, the rates... Oh, yes. This is great. Rates of illness among people who have and have not been vaccinated, uh, over on the right. So, what you can see is that in people over 50, rates of illness are higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. You... 900 to 600 in people 50 to 60, 600 to 400 in people 60 to 70, 500 roughly to 360. In each of those cases, the number in the second-to-last graph lo- uh, in the second-to-last column is higher. So, what that's telling you is that people who are vaccinated with two doses are more likely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 than people who are not infect- who, who are not vaccinated.

   25. ABAlex Berenson57:11

       It's interesting how it changes somewhere around, uh, 40 to 49.

   26. JRJoe Rogan57:16

       That's right. And the, and the, and there's a good, there's a good scientific reason for that, which is basically there's, uh, something called immunosensenescence, which basically means that your immune system, as you get older, has a harder time dealing with disease, right? We all... You mean, that's, that's sort of like intuitively obvious. It also has a harder time mounting the response that the vaccines are supposed to help with.

   27. ABAlex Berenson57:38

       Hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan57:38

       So, so okay. So that's one, that's one chart. And again, this is UK government data, and what it says is that the idea that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated is a total lie. You are more likely to become sick if you are vaccinated than if you are not, and you're over 50-

   29. ABAlex Berenson57:57

       In these older categories?

   30. JRJoe Rogan57:58

       In these older categories, that's right.
9. 1:08:46 – 1:16:14

   Boosters and institutional conflict: FDA resignations, committee votes, and CDC override

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:08:46

      I mean, in the countries that have real data that they're releasing on a timely basis, you see, okay, the vaccine... And in, in... Again, in Israel, last month, well, now it's August, they got so terrified they were gonna have the worst wave yet of COVID that they, that they gave people boosters. They asked, they asked the entire country to get boosters. Do you know how much data there was around booster shots when they did that? There was data, published data... It wasn't even published, it was just the company press release data, on about, about three dozen people, okay?

   2. ABAlex Berenson1:09:21

      That's it?

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:09:22

      Yes. People don't understand-

   4. ABAlex Berenson1:09:25

      36 people?

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:09:25

      Yeah. (laughs)

   6. ABAlex Berenson1:09:26

      Really?

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:09:26

      Yes, at that time. Okay, now there's data on a couple hundred, and that's what the FDA... That's why the FDA choked, okay? That's why the FDA wouldn't give Pfizer and Fauci and Biden what they wanted last month, because finally-

   8. ABAlex Berenson1:09:40

      Explain that to people.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:09:41

      Okay, so in August, the vaccines go off the rails in Israel, okay? In June and July, I say the vaccines are going off the rails and people start to lose their mind, right? And that's when, that's when Twitter really starts to come at me. And we can talk about that chronology and we can talk about my potential legal causes of action against Twitter if we want, but you know what?

   10. ABAlex Berenson1:09:59

       Yeah, we definitely will.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:09:59

       Let's not make that about, let's not make it about me.

   12. ABAlex Berenson1:10:01

       Yeah, okay.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:10:02

       Okay? Okay, in June, beginning of June, there are 15 COVID cases a day in Israel. They are done with COVID. At the end of June, there are 300. In mid-July, there are 3,000. At the end of July, there, there are like... It might be, might have been... It might be the end of July when there were 3,000. In any case, 200-fold increase in cases a day in positive tests for COVID in, between June 1st and August 1st in Israel. The vaccines just stop working, okay? They just stop. You... Biologically, your body gets rid of these antibodies that it's been forced to generate and, uh, sort of like sociologically, people start getting sick. I mean, you know, there's what happens at the cellular level, and then there's what happens at the body level, right? At the, at the, at the like level of counting cases. So we know, we know antibodies go away, and we know people start getting sick again. That's a better way to explain it. Fine. Okay. By, by early July, I'm looking at this and I'm like, "You know, this does not look good," and I don't understand what's gonna turn it around. I don't understand why we think that the biology of these first few people to start getting infected post-vaccine is different than the biology of other people who were vaccinated later. I think this is gonna get worse, and I start saying this on Twitter, "Vaccines are failing. Vaccines are failing." People did not like hearing it. Okay. By the end of Augu- by the end of July, early August, it was clear that Israel and the UK were headed for a crisis. It was more clear in Israel 'cause the UK is a, it's a little bit complicated 'cause they used several different vaccines and they dosed them off schedule. Israel is just like the US. They used really only, they... Israel used only the Pfizer vaccine, where in the US we basically used only the Pfizer and Moderna, the MRNA vaccines. We used a little J&J but not very much. And Israel dosed on the schedule the companies had suggested, just as we did. Okay. It is clear by early August that something bad is happening, and the Israeli response is we want everyone to get a booster. Everyone. Over 80, under 80, sick, well, it doesn't matter. You got the vaccine, now you need your booster, okay? It's time for your bonus vaccine as I was, as I like to call it, the bonus vaccine. It's a free- freebie. Hey, good for Pfizer. Stocks of the companies of Pfizer and Moderna and BioNTech hit new highs when this happened. Why? Because a perfect product from Wall Street's point of view is a product that fails and needs to be redosed, right? The speculation earlier in the year was these are gonna last forever, people aren't gonna need many boosters. That was actually bad for the company stocks. Good for the company stocks is you need a booster.

   14. ABAlex Berenson1:12:52

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:12:53

       Right? Planned obsolescence. You need a booster. It's like the iPhone, except it goes in your body and forces your cells to do something. Okay. Fauci, Biden... Who knows what Biden thinks? Who knows, or, or who knows what, if anything, Biden is thinking? But Fauci understands. He's not dumb. He knows what's going on. He knows that what he thought in April and May is wrong.... 'cause they're not gonna last forever. You're gonna need boosters. He goes to Biden, and in, in, uh, in late, I think it was August 20th, I don't even... The, the date's in the book, I think. But Biden says, "Time for your boosters. We're gonna give boosters to everybody after eight months." There's only one problem. These vaccines were approved on a two-dose schedule, okay? You get two doses, you're done. It's not a therapeutic. It's not a drug that your doctor prescribes to you. "You know what? I feel depressed. I, I, I'm gonna give you an antidepressant for a month, and we'll reconsider in a month." Uh, you know, "I, I have high cholesterol. Try this statin for three months. We'll take your blood again at the end of three months. We'll see how it goes." No, that's not what these are supposed to be. Supposed to be you get it, you're done. And the vaccine fanatics will say, "Oh, well, you know, uh, the tetanus shot sometimes people get after, after a 10-year boost." 10 years is very different than eight months, and that's... Uh, you know, uh, there's been so much sort of, I, I hate to say misinformation, but misinformation about why these vaccines are really so different. So Biden does this, okay? He, he promises the world, or the United States, we're all gonna get boosters. And two of the most senior FDA officials who are in charge of vaccine approval resign within two weeks, okay? They resign, and they write a letter with other people to The Lancet, which is probably the best medical journal in the world, saying, "We don't think boosters are a good idea for the general population." And somehow the media, "Well, yeah, you know, there, there were a few stories about this." Can you imagine if Donald Trump had said something so out of line about vaccines that two of his most senior FDA officials resigned within a couple weeks? The, the Democrats would be ready to impeach him. Like-

   16. ABAlex Berenson1:15:14

       Well, then, um, Biden... Or, yeah, he went and took a booster on television.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:15:18

       Yeah. Okay. Good for him. He's 78 years old. He, maybe it makes sense for him, okay? Shou- should some 30-year-old or 40 or 50 or even 60-year-old be on a, on a treadmill of boosters?

   18. ABAlex Berenson1:15:32

       But this is the question. This is why it leads to... It's a conundrum because if the vaccines do gr- greatly reduce in their efficacy over six, seven, eight months and the FDA says, "No boosters," so that means you have no protection. So here we are eight months after people are being vaccinated, they're giving no recommendation to take a booster.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:57

       Yeah.

   20. ABAlex Berenson1:15:57

       So it means you basically took a vaccine for nothing because-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:16:01

       That's right. That's right. And they don't want to admit it. That's right.

   22. ABAlex Berenson1:16:04

       So by pulling, by the FDA pulling their recommendation for booster shots, they've essentially said do nothing?

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:16:14

       Well, so-

10. 1:16:14 – 1:40:38

    Treatments vs vaccines: monoclonals, Merck’s antiviral, and the ‘one-basket’ strategy

    1. ABAlex Berenson1:16:14

       Well, now, and now we're in this position where Pfizer and M- Merck are both about to release a therapeutic.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:16:22

       Uh, th- Merck's and Merck, the date on the Merck drug is actually quite good. They released it, uh... And by the way, the stocks of the vaccine companies went down more than 10% the day the Merck n- re- reports came out because Wall Street said, "Oh."

    3. ABAlex Berenson1:16:34

       "There's a therapeutic now."

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:16:35

       "There's an actual therapeutic, so we're not gonna be able to jam these boosters into people's arms forever."

Episode duration: 3:21:16