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Joe Rogan Experience #1722 - Bartow Elmore

Bart Elmore is the associate professor of environmental history and core faculty member of the Sustainability Institute at the Ohio State University. He's the author of "Seed Money: Monsanto's Past and Our Food Future." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe RoganhostBartow Elmoreguest
Jun 26, 20242h 52mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

How Coca-Cola Seeded Monsanto’s Toxic Empire And Food Future

  1. Historian Bartow Elmore explains how Coca‑Cola’s ingredient supply chains—especially for caffeine and sweeteners—provided the early ‘seed money’ that allowed Monsanto to grow from a small chemical maker into a global agribusiness powerhouse.
  2. He traces the hidden histories of Coca‑Cola’s coca-leaf monopoly, synthetic caffeine from coal tar, and Monsanto’s portfolio of toxic products such as PCBs, Agent Orange, Roundup, and new drifting herbicides like dicamba.
  3. The conversation shows how industrial agriculture became deeply dependent on fossil fuels and petrochemicals, why that system is now locked into escalating herbicide use and weed resistance, and how towns, farmers, and ecosystems have borne the costs.
  4. Elmore argues that without structural change—reforming subsidies, regulating chemicals more honestly, and supporting regenerative agriculture—lawsuits and incremental fixes won’t be enough to shift the food system off its current, unsustainable path.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Coca‑Cola quietly maintained a legal coca-leaf supply chain and market monopoly.

Coke removed cocaine’s psychoactive component early in the 20th century but kept coca-leaf flavoring (Merchandise No. 5), sourced via a special U.S. import exemption that effectively gives it near-exclusive access to legal coca, limiting opportunities for Andean farmers to sell benign coca products.

Early Coca‑Cola contracts effectively created Monsanto as a major chemical company.

Monsanto’s first big, stabilizing customer was Coca‑Cola, buying saccharin and then caffeine; Monsanto scaled up by extracting caffeine from waste tea and later synthesizing it from coal-tar derivatives, turning cheap fossil inputs into high-margin beverage ingredients.

Monsanto repeatedly recognized dangers of its chemicals but chose to keep selling.

Internal documents show the company knew PCBs and dioxin-contaminated herbicides were highly toxic and globally persistent, yet deliberated between “going out of business” and “selling the hell out of them,” continuing production while workers, communities, and Vietnam veterans were exposed.

Roundup and GMO crops didn’t reduce chemical dependence; they escalated it.

Roundup Ready crops initially displaced older, harsher herbicides, but massive glyphosate use triggered resistant ‘superweeds,’ forcing farmers back onto older chemicals like 2,4‑D and into new multi-herbicide stacks; total herbicide use per acre has increased, not decreased.

New herbicide systems like dicamba create coercive pressure on neighboring farms.

Dicamba volatilizes in heat and drifts onto nearby fields, damaging crops that lack the resistant trait; internal documents showed Monsanto expected farmers to buy its dicamba-tolerant seeds “for protection from their neighbor,” effectively pushing adoption through off-target damage risk.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

But for Coca‑Cola, there would be no Monsanto.

Bartow Elmore

You’re essentially owning life. Are we allowed to patent and own life forms? That seems crazy.

Joe Rogan

They literally wrote, ‘Sell the hell out of them as long as we can,’ about PCBs—after they knew how toxic they were.

Bartow Elmore

A fifth grader can look at this and say, ‘This is the future of agriculture?’ when you see that radioactive slag mountain.

Bartow Elmore

Imagine how insane we’ll look in 100 years: taking a finite natural resource, turning it into a container we use once, and then throwing it away.

Bartow Elmore

Coca‑Cola’s coca leaf sourcing, cocaine history, and monopoly on coca importsSynthetic caffeine production, Coca‑Cola contracts, and the birth of MonsantoPCBs, Agent Orange, dioxin, and Monsanto’s early toxic chemical legacyRoundup (glyphosate), GMO ‘Roundup Ready’ crops, and herbicide resistanceDicamba drift, stacked herbicide-tolerant seeds, and farmers’ legal battlesSeed patenting, technology-use agreements, and farmer debt in the U.S. and IndiaFossil-fuel dependency of modern agriculture and the case for regenerative systems

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