EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,141 words- 0:00 – 1:59
Moving to Austin, housing squeeze, and Big Tech “wokeness”
- NANarrator
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music)
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hello, Peter.
- PAPeter Attia
Hello, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you.
- PAPeter Attia
Likewise.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Um, we're fucking neighbors, man. How you liking the move?
- PAPeter Attia
Loving it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, you've been here a year now, right? A solid year?
- PAPeter Attia
A little over, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah? Loving it?
- PAPeter Attia
I don't know why it took so long.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's a different world, right?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, when you live in a place that only has a million people, it's like, "Oh." Like, "Wow, this is, uh... You could do everything here." ...
- PAPeter Attia
And if I, if I'd done this three years earlier, I could have paid half as much for my house too, that's the other thing that's like just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. (laughs)
- PAPeter Attia
... would have been so smart to have done this in 2017.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, lucky you did it then and not now, 'cause now it's even harder.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's harder to find a house. It's almost impossible.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, I mean, every person we introduce to our real estate agent says the same thing, which is like...
- JRJoe Rogan
You have to build.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's that, it's that wild, which is, uh, I guess, good. I don't know. You know? It's, uh, it's tricky, 'cause, you know, Google's building their... They have this gigantic sail-looking building-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... near the river. Have you seen it?
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So there, there's gonna be a bunch of wokesters running around from that place. They're gonna have to fill that building up, you know?
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And then, you know, you got... Is there a more woke corporation than Google?
- 1:59 – 5:49
The Microsoft land acknowledgment/pronouns clip and the logic of identity declarations
- PAPeter Attia
And, um, and then... but then one of the women said, "Before we begin, I would just like to state that our land-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yes.
- PAPeter Attia
"... the land that this building sits on was actually once owned by or, you know..."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And she rattled off 17 tribes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- PAPeter Attia
At which point, like, my brother was like, "Well, just show me the title deed. Like, is it yours or is it theirs?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PAPeter Attia
"'Cause if it's theirs, you really should give it back."
- JRJoe Rogan
What is happening?
- PAPeter Attia
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's going on? But Microsoft, which is, uh, interesting, they were never like this. Like, what... All the sudden, they went full tilt. They just went from 0 to 11.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? They don't have a history of, like, ads that were woke.
- PAPeter Attia
I don't know. It's, it's, it has provided-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like give me some volume on this 'cause it's so stupid. (laughs)
- NANarrator
... Ed, and lots in store for you. First, we want to acknowledge that the land where the Microsoft campus is situated was traditionally occupied by the Sammamish, the Duwamish, the Snoqualmie, the Suquamish, the Muckleshoot, the Snohomish, the Tulalip, and other Coast Salish peoples since time immemorial, a people that are still here continuing to honor and bring to light their ancient heritage. My name is Alison Wyne-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hey, give back their land.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- NANarrator
... I'm a senior program manager in our developer tools division. I'm an Asian and white female with dark brown hair wearing a red sleeveless top.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm watching this.
- NANarrator
And I am Seth Juarez, program manager of the AI platform group. I'm a tall Hispanic male wearing a blue shirt and khaki pants. Today we kick off two days of learning more about the latest solutions, exploring how these key innovations can empower you-
- JRJoe Rogan
At least-
- NANarrator
... to do great things and connecting with peers from around the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
... they didn't sh- tell their pronouns. The other folks told their pronouns.
- NANarrator
Is that for... Was that for hearing-impaired people or...
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, it must be.
- PAPeter Attia
No, it's for visually impaired people.
- NANarrator
Visually impaired.
- PAPeter Attia
It's, it's, it... And, which is the greatest irony, right? It's like we want the people who can't see our color to know our color.
- 5:49 – 10:31
Intent, offense culture, and why jokes trigger fragile belief systems
- JRJoe Rogan
I think the only reasonable equilibrium is mind-reading software.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I really do. I think the reasonable equilibrium is gonna be something that allows us to read each other's minds so that there's no...... confusion whatsoever about what your intent is.
- PAPeter Attia
Well, although, did you hear the person, um ... I forwarded this article. So, I have a group text with a bunch of friends and my brother, where we just ... This is our only outlet for this insanity.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PAPeter Attia
And, um, someone wrote, uh ... Actually, uh, Jon Stewart m- defended Dave Chappelle after the special-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
... and said, "Look, his intent was X." Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PAPeter Attia
And this person, I don't remember who it was and I don't even remember what, you know, it was in The Independent or something like that, wrote this whole thing saying, "Intent is bullshit. Intent means nothing." And it was so ridiculous because the argument she gave was homicide. She's like, "Even if you don't mean to kill somebody, it's still manslaughter," to which we're all, at the same time, like, "Yeah, and there's a difference between first degree, second degree, involuntary." Like, of course intent matters.
- JRJoe Rogan
Of course it matters.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
But the point is, there are people now arguing intent is irrelevant.
- JRJoe Rogan
That, that's the dumbest thing ever because, like, what if someone ... If you can be charged with manslaughter if you get in an argument with someone, like say if you are in a situation with someone and, uh, they bump into your car and you yell at them and they get in your face and take a swing at you and you knock them out and they fall and hit their head and die, you can get charged with manslaughter for that.
- PAPeter Attia
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is so much different than breaking into someone's house and shooting him in the face.
- PAPeter Attia
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so much different, like plotting out.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, the intent is everything.
- PAPeter Attia
Absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the idea of communication is always, it's always, "I wanna express my thoughts to you so you could better understand what I'm thinking and we can figure out what's right and what's wrong, we can hash things out, we can work on a plan." If you don't know what the fuck a person really means and you're only going by words, like, what are we w- are we code now?
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, um, intent doesn't matter, emotions don't matter, thoughts don't matter. Of course it matters. It's like the only thing that makes us human.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, it's, it's so dumb but it's, it's people taking advantage of what the internet provides, which is this ability to communicate and express outrage and, and, and push buttons, right? So, because we have this new ability to do this, there's a lot of bad actors that use that, that use that ability to communicate, to find things to complain about that are really not relevant. They're not, they're, they're not really something you should be complaining about and if you do complain about it, it's really because you don't have any legitimate problems in your real life.
- PAPeter Attia
Well, I think the other thing is there's an insecurity. And, there actually was an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal today about this, right, which is, um, what was the ... The title of the article was something along the lines of Why the Woke Can't Take a Joke.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PAPeter Attia
And what it basically came down to was the ... And this was quoting guys from, like, 100 years ago making the same thing when it came to jokes about religion, and the idea was if you aren't comfortable in your position, you're going to be easily offended when somebody rattles you, when somebody pokes fun at you.
- 10:31 – 14:41
Taboo words in medicine and the ‘penis’ lecture story
- PAPeter Attia
But even outs- even outside of that, um, m- my, my roommate from med school who's a urologist called me yesterday because he couldn't wait to tell me this ridiculous story. So, uh, a colleague of his, this female urologist who's badass surgeon was giving a lecture to the medical school, uh, which is common, right? You'll always have the surgeon will come in or the doctor will come in. And before she got up to give her lecture, the dean said to her, I'm not making this up, this is a urologist giving a lecture to a group of medical students, said, um, "I would appreciate it if you would not use the word penis during this lecture." 'Cause-
- JRJoe Rogan
He said it before the lecture?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. She said, "It's an anatomic term. I'm a urologist. What would you like me to say?" And what, what ... He came up with some idiotic ... Oh, uh, (laughs) he said, um, "Maybe you could call it, uh, male erectile tissue." And she was like, "Well ..." She's now fucking with him. She's like, "But what if it's flaccid? What, wouldn't the use of male also be kind of triggering in that sense?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm, good point.
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, yeah. I mean, and she basically told him to piss off. And she's-
- JRJoe Rogan
And what did this, this guy was the dean?
- PAPeter Attia
The dean of the medical school.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) And he, uh, I, assume he's a doctor as well?
- PAPeter Attia
He should be. Yeah, yeah. If he's the dean of a medical school, he would be an MD.
- JRJoe Rogan
What in the fuck is wrong with people?
- PAPeter Attia
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
One of my favorite videos is, uh, there's a communist meeting, a meeting of these, uh, student communists and, uh, their, uh-... they're, they're, like, criticizing each other for various things. And one of 'em gets up and tells everybody that, "Please keep the chatter to a minimum and be respectful for people that are easily distracted." And then another one gets up and they, they yell out to stop using gendered language because l- like, he said, "Guys, can you guys please do this?"
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And so he gets up and says, "Can you stop using gendered language?" And it's just like, you guys are like LARPers. You know, it's like live action role playing. Like, you're playing like you're in a different dimen-
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Wanna hear it? Here, it's-
- PAPeter Attia
All right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hilarious. Take-
- NANarrator
And to win socialism. Thank you so much.
- PAPeter Attia
Great. Right. On to-
- NANarrator
Uh, quick point of privilege.
- PAPeter Attia
Um-
- NANarrator
Quick point of personal privilege.
- PAPeter Attia
Yes.
- NANarrator
Um, guys, uh, m- first of all, James Jackson, Sacramento. He/him. I-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- NANarrator
... just wanna say, can we please keep the chatter to a minimum? I'm one of the people who's very, very prone to sensory overload. There's a lot of whispering and chatter going on. It's making it very difficult for me to focus. Please, can we just... I know it's r- we're all fresh and ready to go, but can we please just keep the chatter to a minimum? It's affecting my ability to focus. Thank you.
Thank you, comrade.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs) Love it.
- NANarrator
Okay. Is there a speaker against named Chapter Pronouns-
- 14:41 – 19:42
Phones, hypocrisy, and the hunt for ‘made in America’ tech
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think they will. I don't think they'll go that far. I mean, they're pretty woke. But they're a li- they seem a little bit more reasonable. The craziest thing is that all of this is coming through devices that are made by slave labor. Like, that's d- at the end of the day, it's so hypocritical that all these people tweeting about social justice and, you know, all the wrongs of the world. You're doing it on a fucking device that's made by child slaves.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, sorry. You wanna buy an iPhone? You gotta get something that's essentially made by people that are getting slave wages. They're working 16 hours a day in a building that has nets around it to keep suicide people from jumping off the roof.
- PAPeter Attia
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's Foxconn. That's where they make 'em.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They don't make 'em here. They're, they're not making 'em in Ohio with, you know, folks that are in a union that get paid, you know, great wages and benefits, and can take care of their families. Uh-uh. No. No, we wanna try to keep the bottom line nice and low.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, in order for you to tweet about social justice, you have to do it on a device that's made by people that are not much better than slaves.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Not, not much well o- not more well off. They're really not. It's fucked. It's crazy that there's no outrage to that.
- PAPeter Attia
Well, the outrage is silent. That's the problem. I mean, we're all, you know... I, I guess I should be more vocal about it. You should be more vocal about it. Everybody should be more vocal about it, 'cause I... There's no way the majority of people are looking at this and thinking it's reasonable.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, they're not. But th- it's just convenient.
- PAPeter Attia
But we're d- we're not doing enough about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
But we're not doing anything about it.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. Th- yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, what... There's no one, no one has made a push to make a phone in America. Unless there's something I don't know about. Is there a phone made in America? Let's see if there is a phone made in America. I bet there is not one. I'm willing to bet there's not one. And if it is, it's a piece of shit.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I heard Elon's thinking of making a phone. There was a, there's some talk of a Tesla phone. If that happens, he might be, like, the only one. If Tesla does that, they might be the only ones that could sway people from iPhones.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. (laughs) I think you're right. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? If anybody can... 'Cause it's hard. Like, Samsung has some amazing phones. Their cameras are incredible, but people look at that green text coming in, they're like, not doing it. You know? But if, like, someone like Elon convinced people to switch over to Signal, which is probably better for everybody anyway, to have some peer-to-peer e- encrypted application. Librem 5 USA. Is this a... This is a, um, this is a Linux phone, isn't it?
- PAPeter Attia
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Made in the USA. E- electronics with a secure supply chain. That's r- what does that mean?
- PAPeter Attia
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Made with a secure supply chain. What does that mean?
- NANarrator
You want a smartphone built outside China and the walled gardens of Google and Apple, this may be for you, according to The Register.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, it's real?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, I just Googled... There's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
32 gigabytes? Get the fuck outta here.
- 19:42 – 22:55
Chip shortage spillover: buying trucks, loving manuals, and car markups
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I had a friend who was trying to buy a Ford Raptor, he couldn't get one. Like-
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
It's like ... I, I ordered my pickup truck. I, I wanted to get one in a manual, so I had an old Tacoma, gave it to my brother-in-law.
- JRJoe Rogan
You wanted to get a pickup truck and a manual transmission?
- PAPeter Attia
There's only two that are still made.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who makes it?
- PAPeter Attia
Tacoma makes a limited edition Pro Sport.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- PAPeter Attia
And the Jeep pickup truck comes in a manual.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Well, well the Jeep kind of makes sense. I can't believe Tacoma still does that. That's ... Why do you want a manual pickup truck?
- PAPeter Attia
Um, I want my daughter to be able to drive manual.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- PAPeter Attia
And, um, I just miss driving manual.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- PAPeter Attia
I, I've al- ... I was ... Grew up driving manual and about, you know, six years ago when all cars went to dual clutch, like when sports cars went to dual clutch, I basically gave it up. So, I still drive manual on the track, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
... I kind of miss it on the road. And I, and I just ... I do want my daughter to drive a manual. I, I feel-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just so she can know?
- PAPeter Attia
... it'll keep her ... Well, also, it'll like ... You'll be texting less and screwing around less. You'll-
- JRJoe Rogan
I hope.
- PAPeter Attia
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe not.
- PAPeter Attia
But anyway, the point is, I ordered the thing like six months ago and it's always like a month away.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, because-
- PAPeter Attia
It'll be a month away for another year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I have manual cars. I have a bunch of manual cars, but they're older cars. Like, I have a 2007 Porsche GT3 RS, it's a manual. That Gunther Works Porsche is a manual. I got a '70 Chevelle, that's a manual. '69 Camaro, that's a manual. I got a bunch of manual cars.
- PAPeter Attia
That '69 Camaro is a four-speed or is it a-
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's a, it's a res- resto mod.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, okay.
- 22:55 – 27:21
Watch collecting: vintage Rolex, Omega faux patina, and why men love mechanical jewelry
- JRJoe Rogan
The watch market is very weird with that. There's some watches that you see them and you're like, "Why is that $100,000?" Help me-
- PAPeter Attia
I, I have sold more watches in the last few years just ... And, and I'm wearing like $100 G-Shock that I love, you know? It's, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you trying to get away from the watch fetish?
- PAPeter Attia
No, I mean, I, I have-
- JRJoe Rogan
You want ... Do you, do you drink caffeine? This is-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... KillCliff.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, no. I mean, I, I think ... I just ... I had too many and I was ... I wouldn't wear them all and it just didn't make sense. And so, I, I kind of ... I still have a lot of old watches that I really like, like kind of '60s, '50s, uh, watches-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really? You collect them?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you got?
- PAPeter Attia
Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what kind do you like?
- PAPeter Attia
So, I like the sort of ... I like Rolexes in that vintage, right? So the kind of the Daytona, the no date Subs and the GMTs in that first iteration. So, the, the, the gilt version, which is kind of the yellow, like it has the brighter, um, marks on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
So, I got ... A few years ago, before they got really silly in pricing, um, a guy that I work with, his name's Andrew Scherr in New York who does just vintage Rolex, he calls me up. And I, I had told him for about a year and a half, I wanted a certain ... I wanted a gilt 1675GMT. And he ... I remember I was getting on a plane, I was at Newark just leaving and he goes ... He sends me a picture and I'm like-Dude, that's like new old stock. That's... He goes, "Yeah, it was, like, some guy bought it in Hong Kong in 1967. It sat in a shoebox for... Till now."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So it doesn't have any patina, no fade, no nothing?
- PAPeter Attia
It actually still has a little bit of a patina-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- PAPeter Attia
... just based on how old it is but it's, it's in perfect condition. I love that watch.
- JRJoe Rogan
D- You know what I don't like? And I like some of the watches, but I don't like that they're doing this. They're, they're doing a faux patina on some watches.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so weird. Like, I got the, uh, the Omega. I'm a big Omega fan and I got the James Bond, the No Time to Die Domos-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Titan-
- PAPeter Attia
Did you get the one with the metal bracelet?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, I just got that, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's amazing. It's a beautiful watch. I, I'm just... I'm a big fan of their dia- I'm... Oh, I'm actually wearing one of their dive watches. But the, um... That one they used that faux patina on. I'm like, "Why did you do that?" This is one thing they kept it from being perfect.
- PAPeter Attia
It is a beautiful... I love, I love tropical dials and that's what makes that watch, to me, so beautiful.
- 27:21 – 30:07
What time even is: pocket watches, atomic clocks, and unplugging in nature
- JRJoe Rogan
When was the first pocket watch?
- PAPeter Attia
Hmm, that's a good question. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's take a guess before we Google it. Jamie, what do you think? First pocket watch.
- NANarrator
With mechanics that worked like that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah. Wind up. They were all wind-up ones.
- NANarrator
I'm gonna go old, 15... No, let's say before that so, like, 1450-ish.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- NANarrator
They had to use something like that probably for maneuvering the oceans, I'm guessing.
- JRJoe Rogan
But how... What...
- NANarrator
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
How would they even agree to what time it was?
- NANarrator
I don't have any idea. I'm just guessing. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
See, 'cause, like, before they agreed to what time it was, no one had a fucking clue, right? Like, there was a time-
- PAPeter Attia
They're using sundials and things like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. There was a time in history where no one agreed what time it was. (laughs)
- NANarrator
Well, like, hell with Big Ben. Like, that's probably the first one with agreement 'cause they're like-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a good point.
- NANarrator
... "Okay, that's the fucking time right there."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, that's a good point. Big Ben. I'm gonna guess Big Ben is from 1800.
- NANarrator
All right, I was not-
- PAPeter Attia
I'm, I'm gonna go a little earlier.
- NANarrator
... too far off.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, hit me with it.
- NANarrator
1510.
- JRJoe Rogan
1510 is the first watch?
- NANarrator
German watchmaker, Peter Heinlein, Henlein.
- JRJoe Rogan
So he's like, "This is the time."
- NANarrator
By utilizing-
- 30:07 – 34:22
Mountain lions, hunting risks, and why sidearms matter in the backcountry
- JRJoe Rogan
Did I tell you about the mountain lion I saw?
- PAPeter Attia
No. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I didn't tell you. When we were in Utah, I saw a giant mountain lion, fucking giant. Like, as big as me. It was huge.
- PAPeter Attia
What?
- JRJoe Rogan
It was huge.
- PAPeter Attia
How far from you?
- JRJoe Rogan
We, we were in a truck, luckily, and it was about 30 yards away.
- PAPeter Attia
... my friend, Colton, spotted it. Uh, we were driving and he hits the brakes, he goes, "That fucking mountain lion!" And I'm like, "Where?" And then I see its eyes 'cause it was starting to get dark out, but it was still light and its eyes were glowing. And, uh, I put up the binoculars to take a look at it, like closer through the windshield. And I was like, "Holy fuck!" It was huge. I did not know they got that big.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, they get to 200 pounds.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat) The one that I saw previously, I saw one in Santa Barbara and it was probably like 70 pounds, 60 pounds. It was pretty small. And then I saw another one in Colorado, but it was so brief, it was, it was hard to tell and that one seemed the same size. Seemed like a smaller juvenile one. This was not a juvenile. This was a 100% full grown tom with a big old pumpkin head and huge paws and the forearms were wild. Like that was the weirdest thing, like looking at his f- his forearms were as big as my thighs. I was like, "Fuck, look at this fucking thing."
- PAPeter Attia
Elk killer.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it was just looking at us, you know, and it was under a tree. A- and, you know, we, uh, opened up the car door and tried to like get film of it and look at it closer and it took off and it was so big. 'Cause I was thinking like, if I was out there on my own, you know, 'cause people do that all the time, they hunt solo and they don't carry a weapon, you know? Like Colton didn't have a weapon. I only had a bow and arrow. And here's this giant-ass fucking cat. Like, if we zigged when we should have zagged and all of a sudden we're on top of this thing and it decides to pounce on us, fuck.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs) That better be a good tripan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Did you see that video of the guy who shot the, uh, mountain lion in the face?
- PAPeter Attia
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jamie.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs) It's, uh- (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) He's hunting too and, uh, he's got a Glock out and he's telling this mountain lion, "Hey, back up, back up." And it's not even... It's a smaller one, like a 90-pound one, but he- he's saying to it, "Hey, fuck off, like get outta here." And then it- it makes a move on him and, you know, he drops his phone, you hear crack, crack. You hear m- l- like one shot. One shot. Um, and then you see the thing twitching on the ground and it's got a bullet hole in its face.
- PAPeter Attia
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. But doesn't have that gun, he's fucked, because occasionally they will jump on people and that's the situation th- this guy was in. Like look at this. Give me some volume. Rewind it and give me the volume 'cause when it's looking at its face.
- PAPeter Attia
G- g- g- g- g- get back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that.
- PAPeter Attia
G- get back. You get back. You get back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at that fucking thing.
- PAPeter Attia
Back. Ah, ah, ah. No. No. (gunshot) Motherfucker.
- NANarrator
(sighs) I just had to shoot this mountain lion. It fucking pounced at me and I popped it in the fucking face. (sighs) Holy shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Holy shit.
- PAPeter Attia
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is wild, right?
- 34:22 – 38:57
Shooting practice, long-range rifles, and archery technology obsession
- PAPeter Attia
Speaking of shooting, this range down the street from you is incredible.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which range?
- PAPeter Attia
The, uh, whatever, the Austin Gun Club.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, the Range?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The Range, the indoor range.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's great. Yeah. It's a... That place is really good.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, I just went there for the first time today.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, we have a corporate membership there. It's nice. Everybody can go ko bang bang.
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's good. You know, it's like shooting guns is something you really have to do on a fairly regular basis.
- PAPeter Attia
What, what do you think the frequency is? Is it... I- 'cause it's not as frequent as archery. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- PAPeter Attia
... archery, you... If I go th- two days without shooting my bow, I notice a difference.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Um, what do you figure it is? Like, you gotta do it once a month, twice a month?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think once a month is reasonable as long as you really do take time and you make a lot of shots and you have good form and you're really paying attention to what you're doing, you know? (clears throat) I think, um, there's just too many people that have a gun and think that they're safe and they don't know how to use it all. They n- they, they don't practice with it. Like, it's really kinda strange you could just buy a gun. Like you don't really have to have... Like for, to get a concealed carry permit, you have to show-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... competency, but you don't really have to do that for a regular... I mean, first time I bought a gun was in 1994 when I first moved to California and I just walked into a, uh, gun shop and I said, "I wanna buy a pistol." So I bought a Glock. I still own it. And, uh, I, I paid for it. They did a background check. I think it was like a few days. I got the gun. That's it. (clears throat) You don't have to know shit. I mean, I shot it at that range, but you don't really have to know much. And when I shot it at the range, nobody taught me how to shot it, shoot it. I just shot it. I'm just like, "Okay, you put the bullets here and-"
- PAPeter Attia
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"... this is where the trigger is and point it down there. Okay, bang, bang, bang."
- PAPeter Attia
And now at least with YouTube, like there are some people out there putting really good content out where you can, if you're a newbie, you can say, "Okay, well-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- PAPeter Attia
"... show me how... What's the right technique?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- PAPeter Attia
"And what are the, what are the mistakes that people make here?" And stuff like that. But yeah, back in the day, I mean...
- JRJoe Rogan
You really should get... I think you should get one-on-one instruction if you can afford it.... you know, and I, I don't know how much it costs to get someone to teach you how to shoot a gun correctly, but someone should show you how to hold it, you know, where to place your hand and where, where you should put the pressure-
- 38:57 – 58:02
Axis deer in Hawaii, Maui Nui Venison, and cooking wild game for health
- PAPeter Attia
What is your comfort range in the field? Not at home.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've shot a lot of elk at 60 yards.
- PAPeter Attia
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
67 yards. I shot one at 75 yards.
- PAPeter Attia
That was the one in California, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, that guy was bedded for a while.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
And... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. But I was relaxed and I'd been shooting at 75 yards a lot, and I felt comfortable. Like there was no wind.
- PAPeter Attia
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was comfortable. And, you know, an elk is a large target. If I was gonna shoot a deer, it'd be significantly less. Like a deer-
- PAPeter Attia
I, I shot an axis once at 69, um, but it was a good situation. He was 100% broadside and not at all jumpy. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
... had no clue I was there. But in retrospect, I still think that's a bit... I don't know that I would take that shot again.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
69 doesn't leave you much margin for error on a deer. They're not that big.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're so small.
- PAPeter Attia
The axis deer especially.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, what do they weigh? 120 pounds, like a, a big one?
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, a good... I mean, the biggest one I've ever shot was 200.
- JRJoe Rogan
200? Really?
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah, and he was a beast.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow. What, uh, island was this?
- PAPeter Attia
Maui.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, no kidding. I've never been hunting on Maui.
- PAPeter Attia
You gotta come, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PAPeter Attia
It's... I think it's 10 times better than Lanai.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- 58:02 – 1:00:32
Attia’s longevity practice origin story: surgery burnout, prevention, and returning to medicine
- JRJoe Rogan
We can talk about anything. I don't give a fuck. It doesn't, doesn't bother me. Um, is there any, uh, new information in the world of longevity and the world of health or anything that you know of that is exciting?
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, there're two extremes, right? I think on the one end-
- JRJoe Rogan
Tell everybody what kind of medicine you practice, just so they know.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh, so I, I mean, my practice is basically trying to figure out how to help people live, um, with a greater lifespan. So how do you add 10, 15 years to how long a person's gonna live, and then how do you improve health span? So how do you improve especially-
- JRJoe Rogan
And your degree is in what kind of medicine?
- PAPeter Attia
Um, so I did surgical oncology. I did general surgery and oncology. Um, but I left medicine in 2006 and went, you know, did finance and other stuff and completely went away from it until I kind of came back to it about 10 years ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why did you leave it?
- PAPeter Attia
Um, I mean, truthfully, I was super frustrated. Um, in, in cancer surgery you're doing kind of like very, like, heroic operations. I mean, the most technically challenging types of operations. But, you know, half the people still die, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
So 50% of people who are going to have surgery, and in some cases more. If you're talking about pancreatic cancer, 80% of the people whose pancreas gets removed for cancer are gonna be dead in five years.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PAPeter Attia
So, um, y- you know, I just, I just felt like in all, in all regards, I just felt like there wasn't enough in the way of prevention. Um, and in some ways that is necessary. I mean, we, because I trained at Hopkins, which is in the inner city, it's a lot of trauma surgery. So every third night for five years, you're taking care of gunshot wounds. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- PAPeter Attia
We had so many, I mean, Baltimore averaged, at, at Hopkins we averaged, at the time, I don't know what it's like today. At the time, it was 16 penetrating traumas a day. So 16 gunshot wounds or stab wounds a day. So as a, as a trainee, that's amazing, right? Like that's, that's what you're there for. That's why I went specifically to that program, was to be able to learn to operate on people who are shot or stabbed. Um, but, you know, it, it does take its toll on you, right? You just feel like there's no end to this. Like, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PAPeter Attia
I mean, it's a war zone out there and y- y- yeah. I mean, there were... I remember there were times when, you know, you'd, you'd be a part of, like, a heroic rescue of somebody and they go out the door and they come back a week later with a gunshot wound to the head and they're dead.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. God.
- 1:00:32 – 1:23:01
Predicting the 2008 meltdown: mortgage ‘vintage’ curves, mispriced risk, and TARP aftermath
- PAPeter Attia
And you're like, "Ugh." I mean, come on. Um, so yeah, I was, I was just frustrated by, with everything in medicine when I left. I was super pissed. My wife was like, "You know, you bitch and moan about this so much. I think you have two choices. You should either fix it or leave." And I was like, "Well, I can't fix it, so I'm leaving." Um, so I left and joined a company called McKinsey and was recruited there to do healthcare, but ended up, because my background's in math, doing credit risk. And this was right as, this was like the two years building up to the mortgage meltdown.So that became my day job and my night job. I mean, that was all-consuming for two years. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
What was your night job?
- PAPeter Attia
No. Meaning like we worked 24/7.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Oh.
- PAPeter Attia
Like I, we, I would run a team of analysts in India during the night and then a team in San Francisco during the day. And all day, all night, we were kind of trying to basically figure out how bad this thing was going to be.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you saw it coming?
- PAPeter Attia
Oh. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
How far out?
- PAPeter Attia
Um, so by August of 2007, it was clear that the prime market was going to implode. Uh, and I still remember the day, Thursday, November 15th, uh, 2007 is when I had a sense of what the magnitude was going to be. The thing I didn't know was when. I couldn't... I knew it was gonna be the next 18 months, but I... It wasn't like I could say in September, which is when it ended up happening, right? It was 10 months later. I couldn't say in September the bottom's gonna fall out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was there anything that could have been done that would have mitigated the impact on the economy and society and, you know, repossessions, and-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a really good question because at the time, in November of '07, we... And, and I want to also be clear, the reason we knew with such clarity how bad this was is we were work... We had a client, our client was the largest u.... I guess I could s... Probably the largest US home lender in prime real estate and we had all the data. So we're able to see stuff that's not publicly available, but they didn't see it. But when we went back and looked at the analysis, we were... We figured out that every... That starting in 2004, starting in the second quarter of 2004, every loan that was being originated was behaving differently than in the entire history of mortgages. So this is a, a really interesting analysis. It's called the vintage analysis. Um, if you bundle mortgages together and look at how they behave, for all of time, they behave in a certain way. For about the first 18 months, none of them default. So 18 months after a person buys a house, historically, there's no chance of default. Then defaults start to rise, and they rise for about the next two to three years, and then they never default again. So the vintage curve looks like this. This is cumulative loss rate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
So what's the reason for that? So the reason nobody defaults in the first 18 months is because historically, you really make sure that the person who you're selling a house to or giving a loan to can afford it. You do a really extensive background check on them. And if something's gonna go wrong, it's unlikely to go wrong in that first 18 months because of how much you've documented their income and employment and stuff like that. Then you get into an area where some people are gonna default. And then the reason three, four years out, there's no more defaulting is because by that point, people have enough equity in their home that if they run into trouble, they can always sell the home and the bank gets their money back. So again, you go back in time, every vintage curve for every single mortgage looked like this. Really boring. We went back and plotted all the vintage curves going back to the year 2000, and they all looked... And then in Q2 2004, so you plot these in three-month vintages, they started doing this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Explain to people that are just listening.
- PAPeter Attia
Uh, meaning they started to... Instead of going up and then flat again, they just kept going up and up and up and up and up, but they actually did it at an exponential rate. So they didn't just go up straight, they would go up exponentially.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- PAPeter Attia
In other words, there was no end in sight to the explosion of losses. So the losses started happening immediately and they never slowed down. They accelerated with time. So this is looking at a chain reaction. And this was one of five models that we built to try to understand what was going on. And they all pointed in the same direction, which was catastrophic outcomes basically for loans that became originated after 2004. So by the time we're in 2007, when we show all this data to them, obviously they didn't believe it, right? They said... Well, 'cause the punchline was horrible. The punchline was, "You're gonna lose more in the next 18 months than you've made in the last 10 years." And that was like, you know, they were like, "That's not possible." Um, and the, the rea- I had to be the one to tell the, the, the head of the bank, right? Because... And even though I was only like... There's a hierarchy at McKinsey, there's like senior partners, junior partners, and I was just like a lowly manager who ran the analysts. And the senior partner would normally be the one to present such an outrageous finding to the board of a bank. But he was like, "You should present this." And I said, "Why?" And he goes, "Well, you, you understand the technical details of the model better. And also you used to be a cancer surgeon, so you're used to giving bad news."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PAPeter Attia
"I think this is not gonna go very well. So-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- PAPeter Attia
"... you, you do this." And it did not go well. It was not well received. Um, in re- they could have done something. Yes, they absolutely could have done something. It wouldn't have stopped all the damage, but it would've minimized the damage, because remember, there was still another 10 months of horrible loans being originated, horrible loans being securitized. Um, and they were mispriced. I mean, ultimately that's the problem with this, is it was just a mispricing game. They didn't know how to price the risk of the loans they were making.
- JRJoe Rogan
And how many people were predicting this the way you were?
- PAPeter Attia
Well, look, a lot of people way smarter than me were predicting it. Remember, I was an idiot. All I knew was how bad this was. I had no clue how one could make money off this 'cause I wasn't thinking about it through that lens.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, I see.
- PAPeter Attia
Remember-
- JRJoe Rogan
But some folks were. There was-
- PAPeter Attia
Yeah. If you saw The Big Short. Did you ever see that movie?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I did not.
- PAPeter Attia
Oh. So, um, I think it's called The Big Short, right? It was, uh... Is that it, Jamie? Yeah. Great movie 'cause it was actually very accurate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who's in that movie?
Episode duration: 3:21:48
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Transcript of episode NW8-XztWvDo
