Joe Rogan Experience #1771 - Andy Stumpf

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (heavier rock music) Um, y- we were just talking before we started rolling about Mike Glover, who's, uh, a guy online who, uh, he does a lot of-

Andy Stumpf 0:19 He's also real life.

Joe Rogan 0:20 ... He is a real-

Andy Stumpf 0:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 ... life person too. He's not just, he's not just an animated character.

Andy Stumpf 0:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:25 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 0:25 I've met him.

Joe Rogan 0:26 He gets, uh, he gets a lot of censorship, right? Don't they censor the shit outta him? Don't they, uh, shadow ban him and fuck with his posts?

Andy Stumpf 0:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:36 He, he, he teaches-

Andy Stumpf 0:37 I, I hear-

Joe Rogan 0:37 ... preparedness, right?

Andy Stumpf 0:39 Yeah, so he owns Fieldcraft Survival, which I would describe as preparedness, not to be confused with-

Joe Rogan 0:44 Preppers.

Andy Stumpf 0:45 ... which I don't think is, has to be a pejorative term. There's a fine line-

Joe Rogan 0:50 But it is. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 0:51 ... Okay, yeah, it is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:51 It's a lot of the end of the world people, right? It's a lot of, you know-

Andy Stumpf 0:54 If you're burying a school bus in your backyard-

Joe Rogan 0:56 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 0:57 ... and you have, like, fields of fire and fucking bazookas hidden everywhere, it's, you've taken it too far.

Joe Rogan 1:02 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:02 Having a medical kit in your car and some first aid training, like, "Hey, I can stop bleeding until a higher level of care arrives-"

Joe Rogan 1:08 Yes.

Andy Stumpf 1:08 ... I think that's great. So, that's pre- preparedness. But Mike owns Field cla- uh, Fieldcraft Survival. He talks about getting censored. A lot of people talk about getting censored and shadow banned. I can't make heads or tails as to whether or not that is... ho- how true it is.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you on that, 'cause-

Andy Stumpf 1:25 Some people's stuff is fucking boring.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Ugh, zeh, zeh, zeh. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:29 So, the engagement should be lower. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:33 (laughs) That's so true. But everybody wants to think they're so important, they're put on a list.

Andy Stumpf 1:37 Have you ever seen somebody complaining about being shadow banned, and they have under 100 followers?

Joe Rogan 1:42 I have not.

Andy Stumpf 1:42 'Cause I have.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Oh, really?

Andy Stumpf 1:43 It's fucking glorious.

Joe Rogan 1:45 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:45 "I'm being shadow banned. I only have seven likes." I'm like, "That's actually a 7% engagement. It's pretty good, dude."

Joe Rogan 1:51 I do think it's highly likely that they take people and put them on certain lists, though, where you, you don't get distributed as widely. But I think what it is, it's like, if they feel like you have controversial content, they don't wanna put you in that search function area. Like, say Instagram for instance, you know, like, if you go to the search area of Instagram, you'll discover a bunch of new people and new pages. I don't think I'm ever in that. You know-

Andy Stumpf 2:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18 ... I, I think I talk too much shit, and I swear, and I, I show animals getting eaten.

Andy Stumpf 2:23 Yeah, the, the good stuff.

Joe Rogan 2:24 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 2:24 That's the stuff that I'm in-

Joe Rogan 2:25 Fun stuff.

Andy Stumpf 2:25 ... Instagram for. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:27 It's like Nature Is Metal. Like, that, that-

Andy Stumpf 2:29 That's, that's a good page. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:30 ... That's a great page. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 2:31 Get fucked up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:32 It's a great page. But nobody, you're, you're never gonna find that in the search, like the discover new people.

Andy Stumpf 2:37 You have to completely spell it out, don't you?

Joe Rogan 2:39 Yeah, you gotta go looking for Nature Is Metal. That, that's one of my go-to everyday pages. I go straight there, see what's, what's the new horrific example of survival of the fittest.

Andy Stumpf 2:49 I'm actually currently very deep into watching people eat shit on mountain bikes.

Joe Rogan 2:52 Oh!

Andy Stumpf 2:52 It's one of my absolute favorites.

Joe Rogan 2:55 Those poor kids that do the flips, and then w- land poorly.

Andy Stumpf 2:59 It's not even that. We're talking full just heroic charges down these hills.

Joe Rogan 3:05 Oh, no.

Andy Stumpf 3:05 They're just cambered out, and then the bike is going over. The last thing you see is the body folding in half on a tree and the bike-

Joe Rogan 3:11 Ugh.

Andy Stumpf 3:11 ... coming off. It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 3:14 Oh.

Andy Stumpf 3:14 It's taken me a long time to curate my feed to show me mostly these things.

Joe Rogan 3:17 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 3:17 It's, it's work. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:21 (laughs) Because it knows Andy likes violence.

Andy Stumpf 3:23 Oh, I don't know if that's violence. That's just, uh-

Joe Rogan 3:26 Just chaos?

Andy Stumpf 3:26 ... human beings-

Joe Rogan 3:27 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 3:27 ... exploring their flexibility.

Joe Rogan 3:29 It's, uh... What's, what's- I'm not a

Narrator 3:31 Searching for mountain bike fails.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Oh. (laughs)

Narrator 3:33 Fails of the month. You know?

Andy Stumpf 3:34 (laughs) You're so good.

Narrator 3:35 They're out there.

Joe Rogan 3:35 I'm sure there's a lot of good ones out there.

Andy Stumpf 3:37 Here's the thing though about guys like Mike. I think-

Joe Rogan 3:39 Here we go.

Andy Stumpf 3:40 Oh, yeah. Oh.

Joe Rogan 3:43 Oh, kid.

Andy Stumpf 3:45 Oh, and he's tied up in the bike.

Joe Rogan 3:46 Oh, I saw a bad one the other day with a skateboard. I think we played it on the podcast, right? Where the dude wiped out, and he wiped out on his skateboard and hit some sort of a signpost, and it ripped his leg in half.

Andy Stumpf 3:58 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 3:58 And his, the bones of his leg were poking out of his shin, and it's like, ugh.

Andy Stumpf 4:03 So, here's a question for you. If Mike's on that list, who de- who decides who gets to go on the list?

Joe Rogan 4:08 That's the thing. I think, you know, if you ever pay attention to that, any of that Project Veritas stuff where they've done undercover camera work with people that work on social media, and they talk openly. There's a... Project Veritas has quite a few of these undercover expose interviews where they'll have, like, a reporter who is, uh, you know, pretending they're on a date with a guy, and then the guy will explain, like, what they do in terms of how they shadow ban people, how they keep people's pages from showing up, and how they keep their engagement low. So, it is a thing, whether it's a thing on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, which one does it the most and how they do it, I don't know. But it is a thing, and they do it with, uh, primarily with conservative pages. They do it, uh, they do it if they think that... I think they probably ramp it up around the time where elections come around because they wanna make sure that, you know, these people don't have as much in... Like, if you think about engagement, if you have a page and your page is a, uh, let's say it's a pro-Hillary Clinton page, and Hillary Clinton is running for president, and you engage with a lot of people and your, your, your page gets a lot of traction. If they can slow down your page traction, slow down the amount of engagement that you have, they can slow down the amount of people who might be influenced to vote for Hillary Clinton.

Andy Stumpf 5:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:35 And say if you have a half a million followers or something significant like that, that could play out in whatever voting area you're in by 100 votes, 1,000 votes. Like, who knows?

Andy Stumpf 5:48 Well, especially if people start sharing, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 5:49 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 5:49 ... then the content can go-

Joe Rogan 5:50 Right.

Andy Stumpf 5:50 ... beyond that audience.

Joe Rogan 5:51 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 5:52 It's interesting to me, though. You look at a guy like Mike, so very similar pipeline to Evan, uh-

Joe Rogan 5:57 Evan Haver, Black Rifle Coffee.

Andy Stumpf 5:58 Evan Haver, Black Rifle Coffee. Green Beret first, so they went the army path, then they went, both went and contracted for what I'll call some alphabet soup organizations. Millions of dollars-... put into their training. Multiple deployments around, you know, combat theaters around the world and even to theaters before combat is there, to whether, you know, prep the battle space or train a farten, uh, partner force doing their FID, the Foreign Internal Defense. But then they get on social media, and people want to not allow them to speak about the things that maybe they have learned and experienced during that time period.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 6:36 Millions of dollars of training, an incredible amount of experience, but you want to silence that voice? And I'm not saying all those voices... Some of the people who pursue those occupations are out of their goddamn mind, they're sociopathic for sure, but I just, I find it interesting that, uh, they'll put so much emphasis in one direction and then try to shut them down.

Joe Rogan 6:55 Well, we should explain-

Andy Stumpf 6:55 In the other.

Joe Rogan 6:55 ... to people who don't know you that you're a Navy SEAL too, so-

Andy Stumpf 6:58 I am not a Navy SEAL. I was a Navy SEAL-

Joe Rogan 7:00 Former.

Andy Stumpf 7:00 ... in a different lifetime.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Former Navy SEAL.

Andy Stumpf 7:02 That's correct.

Joe Rogan 7:03 A different lifetime. Isn't that interesting? 'Cause it is kind of a different lifetime. If you th- like, uh, you think of things you've done in your past, those are different lifetimes. Different relationships you've had, different jobs that you've had. Those really kind of were different lives.

Andy Stumpf 7:17 It was almost 10 years ago.

Joe Rogan 7:18 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 7:19 Yeah, I got out the last day of June 2013. So, in about a year, it'll be-

Joe Rogan 7:24 Are you even the same guy?

Andy Stumpf 7:25 ... like, a decade.

Joe Rogan 7:25 You think you're the same person as, from 10 years ago?

Andy Stumpf 7:28 Emotional intelligence, I'm still the same idiot.

Joe Rogan 7:30 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 7:31 Um, obviously some more laps on the body, like some wear and tear for sure. But, uh, I mean, I look back into my 20s, I don't recognize the person I was.

Joe Rogan 7:38 No.

Andy Stumpf 7:39 When I look back into my 30s, and I think I was getting a better understanding of who I was. But now, approaching my mid-40s, I think I'm finally coming into a place where I'm more comfortable with who I am and things make more sense.

Joe Rogan 7:54 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 7:54 It's a completely different person every decade, I would say.

Joe Rogan 7:57 Yeah, I would agree. And for me, I'm in my 50s. This is the most mature I've ever been as a person. Obviously most mature in terms of, like, actual real age mature, but it's also the mo- most I've gotten my emotions and my brain and everything, my discipline, all of it dialed in, under control.

Andy Stumpf 8:17 What age would you give yourself, maturity wise?

Joe Rogan 8:20 54. I'm actually really a 54-year-old. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 8:23 No, I mean, like, the inside Joe, the-

Joe Rogan 8:27 No. I'm like, yeah, I know I'm 20, 21. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 8:30 I'm like 12. So you got a little bit... (laughs) There's the driver's license age-

Joe Rogan 8:34 But, but then there's how I act.

Andy Stumpf 8:34 ... and then there's how I act.

Joe Rogan 8:35 It's, in terms of how I treat people, I'm, like, 54. But in terms of like, my childish, uh, like, I like to poke fun, I like to have a good time, I like to talk shit, that's like still very immature.

Andy Stumpf 8:49 But awesome.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Yeah, I'm very immature in that way.

Andy Stumpf 8:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:51 No doubt.

Andy Stumpf 8:52 It's 'cause you're a man.

Joe Rogan 8:53 Yeah. That's, that's a part of it too.

Andy Stumpf 8:54 Yeah. I'll probably peak at 18, maturity wise.

Joe Rogan 8:57 Yeah?

Andy Stumpf 8:58 In my... Well, I don't think I'll hit my 80s, but my 70s.

Joe Rogan 9:00 You'll be 18-

Andy Stumpf 9:01 (laughs) For sure.

Joe Rogan 9:02 ... in terms of maturity?

Andy Stumpf 9:03 If I'm lucky.

Joe Rogan 9:04 But-

Andy Stumpf 9:04 What's scary when I look back is in my 20s, I also feel like I am making up for a little bit of lost time because I was so focused on my old job for a very long period of time-

Joe Rogan 9:15 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 9:15 ... to the exclusion of everything else. And-

Joe Rogan 9:17 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 9:17 ... a lot of things suffered. And it's taken me a long time to come back around and realize, um, I forget who, who had said it, um, but it was, we were s- having a conversation, they basically said, "Hey, here's the bottom line. The job suffers last always. You'll sacrifice personal relationships. You'll sacrifice, uh, marriages and loved ones. You'll miss birthdays, you'll miss holidays because the job suffers last." And when you're living that life, you don't realize it. In my 20s and early 30s, it was just completely front side focused. And then now looking back, it, uh, you miss out on some stuff for sure, and there's some consequences that you're gonna have to make amends for.

Joe Rogan 9:55 I think that's something that a lot of people find if they're obsessed with whatever their career is, whether they're a pro athlete or whether you're a Navy SEAL or e- I mean, I would imagine any- anybody that works in business at a very high level, you make sacrifices that... I- if you have a family and you're working 16 hours a day as a CEO of a company, what kind of family do you really have? I mean, what kind of-

Andy Stumpf 10:20 Paper family.

Joe Rogan 10:21 Yeah. What kind of connection are you-

Andy Stumpf 10:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:23 ... able to really truly have with your children? Are you really there when they get home from school? How can you be? You know, are you, are you aware if your phone is constantly ringing and you're, you are obligated to answer those calls and... You ever see that show Succession on HBO? Do you ever watch it?

Andy Stumpf 10:38 No.

Joe Rogan 10:38 It's a very good show. I love it. We just finished it today, uh, third season. Um, but it's basically about this billionaire family, and they're all dysfunctional. And it doesn't sound good on paper, but in real life it's fucking awesome. It's like one of the best written, best acted shows I think I've ever seen. But th- like, the life that these people live, it's like some g- it's like a Rupert Murdoch type character who runs this gigantic media conglomerate. If you are that kind of a person, your life is that, that's your life. There's no other way to do that job. And I think that's probably, in your old line of work, very similar. And for anybody that wants to excel, if you want to be a high performer at any very difficult job, very competitive job, you're gonna, if you're gonna really be at your best, you're gonna give up a lot of stuff. You're gonna miss out a lot of stuff.

Andy Stumpf 11:37 Yeah. I think the mistake is not realizing that you're missing out on it.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 11:40 Which is the lie that I told myself, I think, looking back in my 20 and 30s. You know, "Oh, my kids are young, it's gonna be fine." Like, "I have to go on this deployment."

Joe Rogan 11:48 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 11:48 Like, you, you know?

Joe Rogan 11:49 Right.

Andy Stumpf 11:49 Complete focus in that direction. And, uh, yeah. I think if you're gonna be a high performer, like you said, you ha- there is probably a lot of sacrifice. I wonder though, if those people, the Robert Murdochs, do they, on their deathbed, are they happy? I mean, are they looking back with regret and wishing they had spent more time with their family?

Joe Rogan 12:10 It's a good question, because what is success? Like, r- what it, uh, it's a relative thing.... because success without happiness is not really successful. But a certain level of success plus happiness is probably more successful than more financial success and no happiness. Like, you're probably better off being in the middle than being at the top, for a lot of things.

Andy Stumpf 12:36 Most people don't want to be in the middle.

Joe Rogan 12:38 Well, y- f- certainly when it comes to competitive endeavors, they don't want to. Like, I was watching this documentary on, um... There's a great documentary on, um, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray... It's called The Kings. I think it's called The Kings? It's on Showtime. It's on (sniffs) Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Tommy Hearns, and it's all about when they were, um, all battling against each other when it was, you know, the- a really golden era for b- both the welterweight and the middle weight divisions. Yeah, that's it. It's The Kings. Great. I can't recommend it enough. When I was a kid, uh, I was just a gigantic Marvin Hagler fan. I'm, I'm- I love Duran, I love Sugar Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns too, but Hagler, when I was a kid, was the man because he was from Massachusetts, as I was. And, uh, I would remember, uh, reading about what he would do, and he would go into complete isolation. Obviously, these are pre- this is pre-cellphone days. But he wouldn't see his children at all during training camp. He wouldn't see his wife. He wouldn't see any- he didn't-

Andy Stumpf 13:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:40 ... no idea what was going on, so he would miss birthdays. He'd miss some of his children's births. He wouldn't be there for- when his, his kids were born. He just was focused completely on being the champ. And he goes down in history as one of the greatest of all time because of that. But it's like, is that what you want? You know, do you, do you want... Do you... I- if you want to be Marvin Hagler, you want to be that guy who was just... When you would see guys, when they'd step into that ring and they would look across the street, look across the ring at pure determination, pure will, pure discipline, and championship discipline. It's like, that- that's why he was who he was.

Andy Stumpf 14:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:22 I mean, there's, there's only one Marvin Hagler. There's only one guy like that.

Andy Stumpf 14:26 Yeah, I would never discourage anybody from doing that. My advice would just be pay attention to what it is you might be missing and make an effort to-

Joe Rogan 14:33 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 14:33 ... maybe close that circle later on in life. I'm in a- I'm in a different phase. I- I'm, uh... Right? I'm living a different life at this point, and I have the opportunity, (breathes deeply) at least in theory, (clears throat) you know, to try to close some of those gaps that I might have missed, um, because my kids were younger. So I, I think I was able to get away with a lot. I mean, I remember the last deployment I did, I kissed my daughter goodbye in a crib, you know? That's how, how young she was. She doesn't have any memory of that. My boys do. But there's still, uh, there's still work that needs to be done to close that circle up.

Joe Rogan 15:03 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 15:04 So...

Joe Rogan 15:04 Yeah, that's a different story, right? The, the, the c- the circle of having this i- insane dedication and ignoring children because you don't, you don't get those times back. Like, you get times back with your friends. Like, if you don't see your friends for a couple years... Like, I have friends where I can miss them. I don't see them for two years. We run into each other. Within five minutes, we're back to where we were.

Andy Stumpf 15:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:28 And we're just having fun and having a great time. There's no issues. But the, the d- the developmental process of a child is so critical, and, like, being around kids when they're young, you, you never get that back.

Andy Stumpf 15:39 Well, there's being there, and then there's being there. And this is also-

Joe Rogan 15:42 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 15:42 ... a mistake that I made, too. I, I was fortunate I was at all the births of my kids. I didn't miss our rotation cycle for whatever reason. I was home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I don't think I missed one. But there is a difference between being physically present and mentally present, and that is one where I know looking back I would not give myself the highest of marks.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 16:03 Uh, I... Again, the job suffers last, and that's not an excuse by any stretch, and people should judge me harshly for that. But at the same time, it's also allows... I mean, it's what allows you to go and focus on and, and do those things.

Joe Rogan 16:16 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 16:16 'Cause I don't... If I had not had that level of focus, I mean, they- we're spinning off into hypothesis, but who knows what would have happened? You know, it could have either cost me my life or what would have actually been worse, in my opinion, is it costing somebody else their life.

Joe Rogan 16:29 And that's real. I- if you're in that kind of a job, you cannot have distractions.

Andy Stumpf 16:36 You can.

Joe Rogan 16:37 You can.

Andy Stumpf 16:37 Doesn't work out well. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 16:40 (laughs) Or you get shit canned.

Joe Rogan 16:41 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 16:41 I mean, the, the, the standards and the tolerances, they're tight.

Joe Rogan 16:45 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 16:45 And, and people will get benched sometimes and given time to work on whatever it is, uh, they need to work on. And from my understanding, the modern-day teams are doing a much better job of integrating the overall family unit.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 16:59 Which I actually think will make the guys even more lethal. If you know your family's taken care of, if your family is healthy, if you have a good communication dynamic and things are well when you go overseas, it lets you put even more mental horsepower into what's going on over there.

Joe Rogan 17:12 That makes sense.

Andy Stumpf 17:13 Yeah, um, but it's (clears throat) interesting occupation.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Ooh.

Andy Stumpf 17:17 Like, ev- every time somebody says, "Hey, Andy, I want to be a SEAL," I'm like, "Awesome, let's talk about other jobs that you might be interested in."

Joe Rogan 17:23 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 17:24 (laughs) Like any other job. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:27 Is there a l- l- a... Like, in terms of, like, qualified candidates, is- are there less now than ever before or more?

Andy Stumpf 17:38 I'm a little bit detached from the process, so it's, like, second- or third-hand, but I don't think there is a lack of people signing up to do the job. Um, it-

Joe Rogan 17:46 But qualified candidates?

Andy Stumpf 17:48 I mean, (sighs) qualified physically? I mean, a good-

Joe Rogan 17:54 It's more than physical, right?

Andy Stumpf 17:55 But the initial pipeline is a very... It's very physical. You know, people say, you know, the, the physical part is 10% and the mental aspect is 90, and you can put whatever ratio you want to it. It's challenging for both, but the first thing the program does is it grinds people into dust. That's what it's designed to do physically, and that will expose a lot of, uh, mental weaknesses. And all I can really say is that the big end of the...... the siphon is very full. The bottom end, the smaller end of the siphon, is still spitting out the exact same number of people, so I think it's working. Um, I would say there's not a l- I don't think there's a lack of qualified people. My concern would be, and this is not based on anything that I have necessarily seen but just kind of watch in the world, that I think people may be perhaps pursuing that type of occupation for very different, perhaps more self-serving reasons now.

Joe Rogan 18:50 Like, let's, what kind of reasons?

Andy Stumpf 18:52 (sighs) You ever seen a movie or a book about the post-9/11 era, Joe?

Joe Rogan 18:56 Yeah. Do you think that people really enlisting and, and, and trying to go through the process so that they could eventually write books?

Andy Stumpf 19:04 I don't know if that would be in the forefront of their mind. I think people might be enlisting and pursuing those jobs for the fanfare that could potentially come from them.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Oh, Christ.

Andy Stumpf 19:13 Uh, well, when you reward them-

Joe Rogan 19:15 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 19:15 ... on a national ... And here's the thing, I found more information about the SEAL teams through a documentary called Navy SEALS starring Charlie Sheen than any other movie.

Joe Rogan 19:27 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 19:28 (laughs) It's the fucking greatest SEAL movie ever created.

Joe Rogan 19:30 I found that out through Dick Marcinko's books back when I was a kid.

Andy Stumpf 19:33 So that's actually what led me to, uh, the movie, Navy SEALS.

Joe Rogan 19:37 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 19:37 And I would just recommend people go and look at the hair on those gentlemen. Fucking top-notch.

Joe Rogan 19:42 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 19:42 Just constantly manicured. I don't know about the, uh, you know, the telemarketer headsets that they're wearing that don't respond well to water or sweat, I would probably pass on that.

Joe Rogan 19:51 There he is. Look at him.

Andy Stumpf 19:51 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 19:52 Look how good his hair looks. My hair's never looked that good, ever.

Andy Stumpf 19:55 What's that scarf supposed to match? Let's talk about this for a second.

Joe Rogan 19:57 It's whatever it is, it's dope as fuck-

Andy Stumpf 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... and I need one in my life.

Andy Stumpf 20:00 No, you don't.

Joe Rogan 20:01 I do!

Andy Stumpf 20:01 I swear to God, if I saw you wearing one of those, I would at least-

Joe Rogan 20:03 Oh, come on.

Andy Stumpf 20:03 ... attempt to choke you with it.

Joe Rogan 20:04 I'm gonna wear it at the range.

Andy Stumpf 20:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:06 At the range to keep shells from going in my neck, bro.

Andy Stumpf 20:09 No, we got Vietnam era woodland camo with ... Oh, fuck! Cigarette butt? I mean ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:14 Yeah, look at him. He was a beautiful man.

Andy Stumpf 20:18 So-

Joe Rogan 20:19 Right? Can we agree to that? Charlie Sheen?

Andy Stumpf 20:21 Oh, for sure. In that picture, he is a beautiful man.

Joe Rogan 20:24 Look, I mean, imagine you are pretending to be a NAVY SEAL.

Andy Stumpf 20:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:28 You have weightlifting gloves on, it looks like. Yep. Uh-

Andy Stumpf 20:30 Fingerless, of course.

Joe Rogan 20:31 Finger ... Like, the dice man!

Andy Stumpf 20:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:34 Oh!

Narrator 20:34 How long after this did Hot Shots come out? Because they completely parody this movie.

Joe Rogan 20:38 (laughs) that's a good point. What year- 10 to 15 years, probably.

Narrator 20:40 No, it was like a year later.

Joe Rogan 20:41 That's a very good point.

Narrator 20:42 Hot Shots was in the '90s.

Joe Rogan 20:43 That's a very good point.

Narrator 20:44 And he's making fun of himself.

Andy Stumpf 20:45 That is a straight-up telemarketer headset. No doubt about it whatsoever.

Joe Rogan 20:49 Yeah, that is not a headset you wear in the field, right?

Andy Stumpf 20:52 That, I'm not joking though, so I was able to find, uh, the Dick Marcinko books. I was able to find a book called, look at that, MP5SD.

Joe Rogan 20:59 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 20:59 Fucking get some. No magazine.

Joe Rogan 21:01 No magazine?

Andy Stumpf 21:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:02 Why doesn't it have a magazine? (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 21:04 It's like, "Hey, asshole, what's in that pouch on your shoulder? What the fuck-"

Joe Rogan 21:06 What-

Andy Stumpf 21:06 "... do you carry on your shoulder?"

Joe Rogan 21:07 Why doesn't it have a magazine?

Andy Stumpf 21:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:10 How is he ... (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 21:12 There we go, he's got a mag in that one.

Joe Rogan 21:13 Oh, finally, he got a magazine.

Andy Stumpf 21:16 Phew.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Oh my God, that's hilarious.

Andy Stumpf 21:18 I did a-

Joe Rogan 21:18 That telemarketer headset's killing me. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 21:20 Oh my God. I did a breakdown of this with Callan.

Joe Rogan 21:23 I did.

Andy Stumpf 21:23 And I had him narrate the scenes, and he was, like, deep into it-

Joe Rogan 21:26 Ah.

Andy Stumpf 21:26 ... talking about angles. He was completely and utterly wrong with everything that he said.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Of course. He's ... Brian's the best.

Andy Stumpf 21:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Oh, boy.

Andy Stumpf 21:34 Yeah, the, I mean, we're ... MP5SD, so that's a pistol round. That's a nine millimeter-

Joe Rogan 21:38 Is it really?

Andy Stumpf 21:39 Oh, yeah! That's a nine millimeter cartridge.

Joe Rogan 21:41 But it's so big.

Andy Stumpf 21:42 What's so big, the gun?

Joe Rogan 21:43 The gun. It looks like he could carry more. Like, you should probably, like, beef it up a little.

Narrator 21:46 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 21:46 I think it's a 30 ... Well, I mean, it's still gonna be shooting a, a pistol ... Oh my God-

Joe Rogan 21:50 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 21:50 ... the jump scene.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Look at these guys.

Andy Stumpf 21:53 (sighs) So, in the history of the SEAL teams, there has never been a skydive into a fucking Dräger dive. Like, there are so many th-

Joe Rogan 22:01 What's a Dräger dive?

Andy Stumpf 22:02 So what they're wearing in front of, that's a LARV Dräger, that's a rebreather.

Joe Rogan 22:05 Oh.

Andy Stumpf 22:05 The green bottle underneath is pure oxygen. Inside of the black, like, little clam shell thing is a container that has either probably Softmelime or Sodasorb, and it scrubs the carbon dioxide out of your breathing system, so that-

Joe Rogan 22:17 Uh huh.

Andy Stumpf 22:17 ... the black cable going around their neck ... Or not cable, hose. It's an inhalation and an exhalation hose, so you purge all of the, uh, carbon dioxide out of your system and you're breathing pure O2, and so there's no bubbles.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Right.

Andy Stumpf 22:30 So, what they're saying is, "We're gonna skydive in to a jump and then be super sneaky on the way in so we don't have any bubbles."

Joe Rogan 22:37 That sound possible?

Andy Stumpf 22:39 It's very possible, and it's happened precisely zero fucking times.

Joe Rogan 22:42 How come?

Andy Stumpf 22:43 Because it's dangerous! You're combining, like (laughs) , multiple different things! And-

Joe Rogan 22:49 But he's Charlie Sheen.

Andy Stumpf 22:50 He is Charlie Sheen. Trust me.

Joe Rogan 22:52 Look at his hair.

Andy Stumpf 22:52 That movie is fantastic. It legitimately ... I've watched it probably 200 times. Most of that was before the age of 18 though, and I had the Dick Marcinko books and that, and that's what led me. So, I d- I'm not, I'm not hating on the people that do write the books, because that was my initial intro and, and information to-

Joe Rogan 23:12 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 23:12 ... lead me towards that. But the volume of them, and how ... There's a culture about, around being a veteran, and, and people will be very upset about that, and maybe to some degree I fall into that because I was a veteran too, but there are people who make their entire living upon what they did in the past.

Joe Rogan 23:30 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 23:30 The vet, you know, the bro vet culture and all that.

Joe Rogan 23:33 Right.

Andy Stumpf 23:33 And again, people can do, uh, whatever they want to with their experiences, but when I was joining, there was n- there was none of that. It was hard for me to find information. And now, the information is almost overwhelming. And I don't want to rob that of, of, from people because, like I said, it's the same path that I took, but there is also an unhealthy desire for people to be elevated in their status and use that occupation for that.

Joe Rogan 23:59 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 24:00 And I, and again, I, I don't have any data to support it, but I would be worried that perhaps peop- people's reasons for joining is shifting.

Joe Rogan 24:08 Mm. That makes sense. Right? Like, they, they see the glory, so they go towards the glory. You know, that's, uh, one of the things that people from the early days of MMA (clears throat) , one of the things that they really liked is that there was no money.Not that they liked that there was no money, but they liked that everybody who was competing was doing it for a pure reason. They were doing it to test themselves.

Andy Stumpf 24:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:31 I mean, they were doing it because they really wanted to see how their skills stacked up inside the octagon.

Andy Stumpf 24:36 It's pretty tough to get punched in the face for free. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:38 A lot of guys did it.

Andy Stumpf 24:40 For the right reason, though.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 24:41 It separates the wheat from the chaff pretty quickly.

Joe Rogan 24:43 Yeah. I mean, if you want to compete, like, uh, like amateur fighters. You think about how many guys are fighting amateur, and they're out there g- getting kicked and punched and strangled, and they're not getting a goddamn penny.

Andy Stumpf 24:56 Hard pass.

Joe Rogan 24:57 Yeah. That's the reason-

Andy Stumpf 24:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:58 ... why they're doing it, though. They're doing it for the right reasons. They're doing it to, to excel.

Andy Stumpf 25:02 I completely and utterly support that, and I think that you ha- I think that everybody should go through that phase in their life-

Joe Rogan 25:08 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 25:09 ... where you see where you wanna go, and you're getting just your dick stomped into the dirt, and you're not being rewarded for it in any way, and you have to struggle and fight and just grind your way to that end state.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Yeah, I'm a firm believer that those uncomfortable experiences of failure are- they are so critical to your development as a human being. And not just your development in whatever the endeavor of choice is, but your development as a human being. That if you don't have those, the people that seek too much comfort, if you don't have those rough experiences, you don't develop properly. Those people who seek too much comfort, they don't develop right. They're like a salamander that never becomes its mature form. There's something missing-

Andy Stumpf 25:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:52 ... because that unco- the uncomfortable experience of, of failing or of being smooshed, uh, of being overwhelmed by the competition, like, being completely inadequate, completely unprepared, completely, uh, insufficient to get the job done. Like, that's important to know, because otherwise, you go through this life with like... How many guys out there who have never had any physical altercation with people have this completely distorted perception of what they're capable of doing? But it's-

Andy Stumpf 26:24 They're called game time player joes. They don't need to train.

Joe Rogan 26:26 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 26:26 They just-

Joe Rogan 26:27 It's my mentality, bro.

Andy Stumpf 26:28 They see red-

Joe Rogan 26:28 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 26:29 ... when the, when the, the body flips.

Joe Rogan 26:30 When the switching starts dropping.

Andy Stumpf 26:31 Yeah, usually after about a 12-pack.

Joe Rogan 26:33 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 26:33 They just see red, get after it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:34 There's a lot of people that really believe that.

Andy Stumpf 26:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:38 A- and that is precisely because they haven't experienced it.

Andy Stumpf 26:42 Resilience can be taught. Um, you know, to go back to, again, you know, the-

Joe Rogan 26:49 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 26:49 ... my old job, people will equate, uh, or they talk about mental toughness with it a lot, and everybody has some degree of mental toughness, right? Like you're- you're born with some, but I'm a firm believer they can actually be taught as well, and we've talked about this offline. I think we were at the Deseret talking about the theory of keeping your world small, right?

Joe Rogan 27:06 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 27:06 Little small chunks and stuff like that. The way you set your goals drastically will i- impact, I think, the statistical odds of success, but also seeking difficult things and finding failure. Resilience, the only way you're gonna build resilience is if you push up against things that are hard. You know, the definition of resilience is an object being pushed from its normal state and returning to that state. I think the goal should be return to that state plus .01%, but if you always avoid those things, how are you ever gonna expect to be capable of handling the challenges of life?

Joe Rogan 27:37 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 27:37 And I think that's where the mental, the mental toughness aspect of not the SEAL community, but I would say the military to a degree, but specifically, because I can speak to the special operations world, your- the pipelines, they are just wrought with failure. I mean, the curriculum is designed to find your weakest point and then exploit it and get in there with a rake and just fucking dig around in your head. And it's failure after failure after failure after failure, not catastrophic, but small failure, small punishment. And there are people who see that as a roadblock and they quit, and there are people who see that as a motivation and they move forward. And if you can- if you can grasp your head around those principles, I mean, it puts you in a place where y- you're able to accomplish things that'll make people scratch their head.

Joe Rogan 28:15 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 28:16 And, but it can all be taught. It-

Joe Rogan 28:17 It can be.

Andy Stumpf 28:18 But you have to seek that.

Joe Rogan 28:20 You have to seek that, and you have to be- you have to be accustomed to the experience of trying to do things and failing, trying to do things and getting maybe a little bit better. Looking back six months, you're better than you were then. Looking back a year later, you're better than you were then. And being able to trust that process and just keep grinding. People want instantaneous satisfaction. They want instant advancement. They wanna, you know, like, they wanna know that if they take 10 classes, they get a stripe on their white belt, you know? And that's just not how the world works.

Andy Stumpf 28:53 I think that's why I like jujitsu so much, not because of the 10 classes and you get a stripe on your white belt, but you- it's- the growth is incremental at best.

Joe Rogan 29:02 At best.

Andy Stumpf 29:02 At-

Joe Rogan 29:03 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 29:03 ... best. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:04 The best- the best way to ensure more than incremental growth, though, is to do the difficult stuff. Um, drilling.

Andy Stumpf 29:12 Roll with a dude who know- you know is just gonna hand you your lunch.

Joe Rogan 29:15 I don't know if that's the best way.

Andy Stumpf 29:16 No, I don't mean like, like rough hand you your lunch. The dude, e- everybody, to include myself. Like, you go to the gym and you're like, "Goddammit." Like-

Joe Rogan 29:24 Right.

Andy Stumpf 29:24 ... Bob's- Bob's here.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Right.

Andy Stumpf 29:25 It never goes my way when I roll with Bob, so-

Joe Rogan 29:27 Right.

Andy Stumpf 29:28 ... I'm not gonna r- It's like, no, you need to go roll with the guy that you know is probably gonna beat you.

Joe Rogan 29:32 Right.

Andy Stumpf 29:32 Accept the fact that you're gonna get beat. I don't mean getting mauled, even though I do believe there's a time and place for that too. But that's- your body will tell you, like- and this happens, I think, professionally as well too, uh, 'cause it happens to me. I'll fire up the inbox and like, "Goddammit, I don't wanna answer that email 'cause I don't wanna talk about that topic." So that's exactly what I actually should probably be attacking.

Joe Rogan 29:53 Right, right.

Andy Stumpf 29:53 Jujitsu, I think, is just more of a physical expression.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Yeah, I think, um, being with a guy like the Bobs of the world, it's- it's, uh, a great litmus test too. You need those tests. You need to know. (clears throat) You need to have, like, a real idea of where you're at. Like, there's- I remember when I was a white belt, there was guys that I would roll with that would just smoosh me.... and then by that, the time I got to be, like, a brown belt, I could either stalemate them or could occasionally tap them.

Andy Stumpf 30:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:23 And the same guys who used to smoosh me, I could tap. And that's a crazy feeling of knowing that it's this long journey of over a decade of getting strangled and your fucking ass handed to you, that you do-

Andy Stumpf 30:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:37 ... you do make progress, but-

Andy Stumpf 30:39 Willingly go ask another man to choke you nearly unconscious?

Joe Rogan 30:42 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 30:42 It's not kinky.

Joe Rogan 30:43 But that's, that's what it is. It's the de- and it's not a decade for everybody. I didn't, I didn't train as much as some folks do, like, like, you know, some folks are training every single day. Like Bourdain, when he was, uh, really into jujitsu, he was telling me that he was taking a private every day for an hour, and then he was taking a class every day after the private, every day.

Andy Stumpf 31:00 So, about two hours of training a day?

Joe Rogan 31:02 Two hours plus every day.

Andy Stumpf 31:03 How old was he when he found it?

Joe Rogan 31:04 58.

Andy Stumpf 31:06 Fuck, I-

Joe Rogan 31:06 58, smoking cigarettes-

Andy Stumpf 31:08 (exhales) .

Joe Rogan 31:08 ... overweight, had high blood pressure, was on statins. He took statins because... We had a conversation about that too, because he did not want to stop eating the kind of food that he loved, and he had high blood pressure and he had high cholesterol and he had-

Andy Stumpf 31:21 I can respect that decision. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:23 Well, he was a food freak, man. I mean-

Andy Stumpf 31:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:25 ... that was his fucking occupation was traveling around the world. And he said, "I, you know, I, I'm not gonna stop eating this food. I mean, this is literally what I enjoy most in life. I travel to these places that have these amazing dishes. Like, why would I stop doing that? I'll just take whatever pill they have." And I'm like, "I get it there." Like, most people, they would tell you, you know, "I'd rather take a pill and I don't wanna make any lifestyle changes." I'd be like, "Oh, man." Like, what, what are the downsides of that? I don't know what the downsides of statins are. I don't know. And, and matter of fact, didn't David Sinclair talk about the upsides of statins? Wasn't that something that he had broughten up? I know I've read things, I'm not sure. But b- the point is, like, for most people, I'd say, "Man, you know' make some lifestyle changes." But for him, I was like, "Okay, I get it." But when he, he started training every day, and he was training two plus hours a day, he got off everything. He didn't need any medication. The, it all went away.

Andy Stumpf 32:18 That's a crazy volume at 58 years old.

Joe Rogan 32:19 He's an animal. It was an animal.

Andy Stumpf 32:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:21 Oh, he... That one hurts me. That one hurts me.

Andy Stumpf 32:25 How far did he-

Joe Rogan 32:26 He, he was a blue belt.

Andy Stumpf 32:27 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:28 He was good. He was a good man. The guy was an animal. And he, he was very proud of the fact that he could really be a hard role. He goes, like, uh, you know, uh, he goes, "I was a good role."

Andy Stumpf 32:41 How tall and heavy was he?

Joe Rogan 32:42 He's pretty tall. Um, oh, I think, uh, I think he was, like, 6'2" or 6'3".

Andy Stumpf 32:50 190-ish? He looked a little fatter than most-

Joe Rogan 32:52 Towards the end, yeah. Towards, uh, 'cause he got very ripped. (clears throat) There's a picture of him walking down, uh, the street somewhere with no shirt on with the ex, with his ex, with the, you know, I guess the girl he was dating w- when he died, or was, I think they were broken up when he died. And then, he was, like, full six pack, which is crazy, 'cause like-

Andy Stumpf 33:12 At that age?

Joe Rogan 33:13 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 33:13 Yeah, I aspire to be able to do that.

Joe Rogan 33:15 (laughs) Yeah. I'm sure he wasn't on the natch, you know?

Andy Stumpf 33:20 Are you trying to say it was more than chicken breast and broccoli juice?

Joe Rogan 33:22 Yes, I think-

Andy Stumpf 33:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:23 ... I think he had some help. In fact, I encouraged him to. Here he goes. Like, look at that.

Andy Stumpf 33:28 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 33:29 Yeah, bro. Legit. Yeah, well, Tony was an addict, right? So, he was-

Andy Stumpf 33:34 Yeah, I'd heard that about him.

Joe Rogan 33:35 ... addicted to not just... Look at him and Iggy Pop. He was addicted to not just things that were bad for you, but also things that were good for you. You know, that's something BJ Penn told me too. (sniffs) BJ Penn told me he was having a conversation w- with this guy who was, uh, uh, a huge fan of his who was addicted to jujitsu, and he was saying to BJ like, "I got my black belt in three years just like you." And he goes, "Man." He goes, "You're dedicated." He goes, "No, man, I'm addicted. I'm addicted just like you." And he goes, "Then I realized, like, yeah, that's what's going on. I was addicted. I'm addicted."

Andy Stumpf 34:08 I s- I think there's an aspect of that, and I also think that there are people who use it as a coping mechanism.

Joe Rogan 34:13 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 34:13 They'll dive into that as opposed to having the hard conversations with themself or putting the work in, because all they're doing, it actually goes back to what we were talking about before. They're working so hard on one thing to the exclusion of others.

Joe Rogan 34:24 That's true. Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 34:25 So, i- it's, uh, I mean, I don't have nearly enough experience to comment on jujitsu as a whole or anybody else's journey in it, but from the conversations I've had with coaches that I respect, they have all kind of either experienced that a little bit, that level of dedication, or seen other people who every other aspect of their life is falling apart but they'll spend three to four hours a day on the mats.

Joe Rogan 34:48 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 34:48 So, I can, I mean, I can see, it is addicting. It's fucking awesome. I wish I had found it 30 years ago.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Yeah. How a- are you still injured? You had like a elbow thing that was keeping you-

Andy Stumpf 34:57 Dude, I'm so-

Joe Rogan 34:57 ... from doing good. Are you good?

Andy Stumpf 34:59 That's called just not tapping, Joe.

Joe Rogan 35:01 Oh.

Andy Stumpf 35:01 It's a theory that nobody should, uh, explore and recommend, but...

Joe Rogan 35:04 It's hard to not tap. Or it's hard, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 35:06 It was, it was my own fault. It came on faster than I thought it would. Um, so yeah, I'm a little-

Joe Rogan 35:12 What came on faster? The, the-

Andy Stumpf 35:14 The arm bar?

Joe Rogan 35:14 ... submission?

Andy Stumpf 35:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:14 Oh, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 35:15 It was fine.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 35:16 I also could've, uh, started to tap before my arm was straight. There's a lot of things that I could've done. Um-

Joe Rogan 35:21 So, is it still fucked up or is it better?

Andy Stumpf 35:23 We're good. I'm good now.

Joe Rogan 35:24 It's good?

Andy Stumpf 35:25 It is.

Joe Rogan 35:25 But it kept you from doing archery for a while, right?

Andy Stumpf 35:27 It happened right before the archery season two years ago.

Joe Rogan 35:30 Oh, no.

Andy Stumpf 35:31 Which the first thing I did was go try to pick up my bow, 'cause it was, of course, my holding arm. And I go to pick it up and, yeah, that's not happening. I could've drawn it, but it would've just drawn it directly into my face.

Joe Rogan 35:43 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 35:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:43 Did you use, uh, peptides or anything to help heal it?

Andy Stumpf 35:46 No. I told you, I'm scared of fucking needles. I'm not gonna shoot myself up.

Joe Rogan 35:50 Oh, come on. Re- is that real?

Andy Stumpf 35:51 That's real. I don't like needles.

Joe Rogan 35:53 What's wrong with n- what is the needle thing? I don't understand that one.

Andy Stumpf 35:57 I don't know. Why do some people like chocolate ice cream and not vanilla? I can't explain it.

Joe Rogan 36:00 I, I, I think it's so funny, 'cause this is one of the thing that comes up a lot with, uh, COVID vaccines. People go, "Are you scared of needles?" I'm like, "No, I'm not scared of needles." Like, why... How the fuck would I be scared of needles? Some people are scared of needles.

Andy Stumpf 36:14 Well, let me rephrase it. I don't have any problem with shots, and we did, like, a bunch of IV training.... and then which paid off awesome when we were hungover. I don't have a problem getting shots. What you were describing would be me having to shoot, inject myself.

Joe Rogan 36:27 That bothers you?

Andy Stumpf 36:28 I would pass out.

Joe Rogan 36:29 Really?

Andy Stumpf 36:29 Oh, 100%. Just straight auger. I'd just... Or I'd have to sit there and, like, count down from 10. Be like, "10, 9." Okay, I'm gonna start over. "10."

Joe Rogan 36:38 That's wild.

Andy Stumpf 36:39 (laughs) I just can't-

Joe Rogan 36:40 I look at my body like it's made out of Play-Doh. I just stick the needles in.

Andy Stumpf 36:44 Really?

Joe Rogan 36:44 Yeah, it doesn't even-

Andy Stumpf 36:45 That does not work for me.

Joe Rogan 36:46 I did... When I had, like, a tennis elbow, and I would, like, put the BPC 157 into there. I would just stick it right in there and just squirt it in there.

Andy Stumpf 36:54 You're an unique man, Joe.

Joe Rogan 36:56 I don't think that's that unique. I think it's, uh... The, the needle thing is... I don't know what it is, but for some people that are, like, really tough people, that's a issue. The needle thing's an issue.

Andy Stumpf 37:06 It's an issue if I have to do it myself. I don't have a problem with shots or blood draws or stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 37:12 I used to date a girl and, uh, her, her whole family had a thing where they would see things and they would faint. Like, the dad was a dentist-

Andy Stumpf 37:21 Like goats? Like the fainting goats?

Joe Rogan 37:22 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 37:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:23 (clears throat) Like, the dad was a dentist and one day his son got sunburnt, and he had blisters, and the dad saw the blisters and just fucking dropped dead. Just fainted. Not dead, you know, fainted.

Andy Stumpf 37:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:35 And, and I was like, "What? Your dad just faints?" I go, "Your dad's a fucking dentist. How's he just faint?" And so one time, her and I went to the movies and in the movie, someone's shooting heroin, and the person sticks the needle into their arm and plunges the, the... and she just blacks out at the movie theater.

Andy Stumpf 37:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:51 I'm like, "What the fuck is going on?" So, it's like, some really strange... It seems like it's a genetic thing. Like, her and her dad would just fall asleep rando. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 38:02 I hope they didn't see any of that shit when they were driving.

Joe Rogan 38:05 I know, right?

Andy Stumpf 38:05 I mean, that's a rough life if you just randomly see things and pass out.

Joe Rogan 38:09 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 38:10 I would get that checked out.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Some people pass out though, right? When they see things that are fucked up, they pass out.

Andy Stumpf 38:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:15 What is that? What... I mean, what-

Andy Stumpf 38:17 Shock, I think.

Joe Rogan 38:18 Yeah, but like what kind of, like, evolutionary benefit would there ever be in blacking out when you see something that's stunning?

Andy Stumpf 38:26 I don't know. Don't you ever watch videos of fainting goats? I don't think there's any evolutionary benefit, but it happens.

Joe Rogan 38:31 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 38:32 They're, they're the best. They're not as good as people on, you know, mountain bikes eating shit, but...

Joe Rogan 38:36 My dog caught a possum a few months ago and, uh-

Andy Stumpf 38:39 It played dead?

Joe Rogan 38:40 Yeah, it plays dead.

Andy Stumpf 38:41 (laughs) But they... I thought they played dead, but apparently they go into shock, and they just lay there. And they think that it might increase their benefit, like increase their, their chances, rather, of survival, because some animals when they attack them will stop attacking them if they don't move. So, when the animal attacks them like, like a wolf or something will shake them, and if they just lay perfectly still, th- they'll think they're dead already, and they might have a chance of survival that's better than fighting back. I think I would fight back with a wolf. That thing is gonna eat your face.

Joe Rogan 39:16 Well, yeah, fight back with a wolf. Like, what's the point? A wolf's gonna fuck you up no matter what.

Andy Stumpf 39:21 Climb a tree.

Narrator 39:21 Reflex vasovagal faints or reflex faints are-

Joe Rogan 39:27 That's what the-

Narrator 39:28 ... yeah, apparently are unique to humans.

Joe Rogan 39:30 Oh.

Narrator 39:31 So other animals obviously faint, but-

Andy Stumpf 39:33 We're such a bitch-ass species.

Joe Rogan 39:34 We're such a bitch-ass species.

Andy Stumpf 39:36 (laughs)

Narrator 39:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:36 We're basically water balloons.

Andy Stumpf 39:38 Vasovagal faints.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Are essentially, essentially a protective mechanism. Reflex faints are activated by the nervous system which slows down the heart rate or lowers blood pressure and spots to strain leading to reduced blood flow to the brain. I bet people who faint like that can get choked out easy. (exhales) Triggers for this can be surprisingly benign. For some people laughing, coughing-

Andy Stumpf 40:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:00 ... swallowing, urinating. Urinate. Imagine you take a leak and you just black out.

Andy Stumpf 40:05 Oh, don't... Keep going. Or blowing a trumpet. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:08 Well, blowing a trumpet, like if you go to like Dizzy Gillespie. When I was a kid I went to see Dizzy Gillespie live. I saw him live. It's the craziest shit ever. Do you know who Dizzy Gillespie is?

Andy Stumpf 40:17 N- not a clue.

Joe Rogan 40:18 Dizzy Gillespie was a jazz trumpeter, like a legendary jazz trumpeter whose cheeks would blow up. He actually did it in a way that it's like not how they teach you. They don't teach you to fill your face up with air. But he did it and it became-

Andy Stumpf 40:34 Oh, damn.

Joe Rogan 40:34 ... like a part of his signature. So we, we went to see him, uh, when I lived in San Francisco. We went to see him play. And his cheeks would blow up like... I mean, it looks like he's got a softball on each side of his mouth.

Andy Stumpf 40:47 Was he able to play the trumpet differently than anybody else because of that?

Joe Rogan 40:51 I don't know enough about trumpet to answer that question.

Narrator 40:53 He's pretty good. I know that.

Joe Rogan 40:54 He was awesome. He was awesome. But, uh, that's not the way they teach you to do it. Like, they teach you to, uh, keep your, like, mouth shut, 'cause I remember I took a class, music class, on trumpet playing and while... when I was in the class I was, like, remembering how Dizzy Gillespie did it, and I was like, "That's crazy." Like, this guy's a legend and he did it the total opposite 'cause you're not supposed to fill your face up with air. You're supposed to, like... Like, what's the correct... Find out what's the correct technique for blowing a trumpet because I think you're supposed to keep your mouth closed and keep everything tight. You're definitely not supposed to fill your face up with air, but Dizzy might have been self-taught. How to, um, form a trumpet... Wow, how do you say that word?

Narrator 41:45 Ooh, embouchure.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Embooshure? Embooshure? Embooshure? How to play the trumpet.

Narrator 41:51 Uh, just click that.

Joe Rogan 41:52 Okay, click that. Let's see.

Andy Stumpf 41:53 I wonder if there is an agreed-upon best technique.

Joe Rogan 41:56 This is, uh, a gentleman called the Black Trumpeter.

Narrator 41:59 Practice forming your embouchure-

Andy Stumpf 42:00 Embouchure.

Narrator 42:00 ... in front of a mirror-

Joe Rogan 42:01 Embouchure.

Narrator 42:01 ... or using the front-facing camera on your phone so you can practice forming your embouchure in one motion like this.

42:11 Like you're about to spit.

Joe Rogan 42:11 He's doing like a, uh, like a Bill Cosby.

Narrator 42:14 Central for you, you're going to want-

Joe Rogan 42:14 Jello pudding. (laughs) .

Andy Stumpf 42:16 (laughs)

Narrator 42:16 (laughs)

42:16 ... to clean your face first thing in the morning.

Joe Rogan 42:16 Right? Isn't that look-

Narrator 42:17 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 42:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:17 Doesn't that look like-

Narrator 42:18 So bring our lids together.

Joe Rogan 42:19 ... that face?

Narrator 42:19 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 42:19 (clears throat)

Narrator 42:20 Then we're gonna firm our corners.

Joe Rogan 42:22 Mm.

Narrator 42:22 And lastly flatten our chin.

Joe Rogan 42:25 ... so that thing-

Andy Stumpf 42:26 The, the general sha-

Narrator 42:26 But that's weird.

Joe Rogan 42:26 That's the way you're supposed to play the trumpet.

Andy Stumpf 42:28 The flat face?

Joe Rogan 42:29 Right. So then you look at Dizzy. Pu- give me some Dizzy Gillespie so we could hear it. (trumpet playing)

Andy Stumpf 42:34 Holy sh- Look at his neck.

Joe Rogan 42:37 Yeah. Yeah, like, all the way to the back of his neck would fill up with air.

Andy Stumpf 42:46 Holy cow.

Joe Rogan 42:48 So when you see him-

Andy Stumpf 42:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 42:50 ... that's not how you're supposed to do it. But yet, he's a legend, a legend doing it his own way.

Andy Stumpf 43:00 There's always gonna be an outlier like that, right?

Joe Rogan 43:02 Oh, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 43:02 There's some weird shit in the archery world too.

Joe Rogan 43:03 Oh, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 43:03 Like there's no, there's a 90% everybody should do it like this, and then there's some-

Joe Rogan 43:08 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 43:09 ... weirdo doing it some other way at an incredibly high level.

Joe Rogan 43:11 Yeah. Well, you know, John Dudley is a big proponent of the surprise shot, right?

Andy Stumpf 43:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:17 They're all using, like, hinge releases or all kinds of releases. You pull through the shot and you get a surprise shot, but Cam Hanes just hits the trigger. He just lines it up and he just hits the trigger, and he's the best bow hunter alive. So, like, what do you-

Andy Stumpf 43:33 I mean, I think if you spend enough time-

Joe Rogan 43:34 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 43:34 ... dedicating yourself to it, you can get to that level. I-

Joe Rogan 43:36 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 43:37 You know?

Joe Rogan 43:37 Yeah, I think so, too.

Andy Stumpf 43:37 I think anybody who says this works for everybody is immediately full of shit.

Joe Rogan 43:41 Yeah, I think so, too. I think that's with everything. I mean, with martial arts you see that. There's people that have, like, really weird technique and they pull it off. But s- for, for some things, it's like (clears throat) when you're learning, which button-

Andy Stumpf 43:55 Which one are you hitting?

Joe Rogan 43:56 Oh, there's a cough button. I got a cough button.

Andy Stumpf 43:57 I don't even have to cough, but I wanna hit that button.

Joe Rogan 43:59 See it, that little red button? Re- pr- hit the button and start talking. Talk and then hit the button. Yeah, I hit it. Isn't that crazy?

Andy Stumpf 44:05 (sighs) Goddamn, I gotta upgrade the studio.

Joe Rogan 44:06 This is like a professional studio. It's close.

Andy Stumpf 44:10 I'll just take notes, get other stuff.

Joe Rogan 44:12 But you should learn the right way. Like there's a reason why, like, you sh- when you throw a right hand, you, you should turn your whole body into it, and, you know, it should be lined up with y- your shoulders and pushing off the floor. You could fuck people up without doing that, though. There's guys that hit so hard, they can hit you with, like, poor technique. That's how you can learn that way.

Andy Stumpf 44:32 All you need to do is go on YouTube and put in there "cold cock," and you're gonna see the shittiest technique ever and people getting flat-lined.

Joe Rogan 44:38 Oh. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Narrator 44:40 Easy putting in "cold cock" and what have you, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:42 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 44:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:42 I mean, I don't know about your search history.

Narrator 44:44 Good for nothing. Dick on ice. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 44:46 Cold cock punch. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:48 (laughs) The thing is it doesn't take that much to knock someone out. That's what people don't realize, you know, especially if you don't see it coming.

Andy Stumpf 44:55 How much did you pay attention to your bell getting rung when you were younger?

Joe Rogan 44:59 Very little.

Andy Stumpf 45:00 Yeah, I didn't either, and I actually have some pretty severe concerns about how the later years of my life might potentially be, given my concussion history.

Joe Rogan 45:08 I had an offer recently to get a brain scan and I panicked, 'cause it was-

Andy Stumpf 45:12 'Cause you don't wanna know?

Joe Rogan 45:13 I don't wanna know what's in there.

Andy Stumpf 45:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:16 You know?

Andy Stumpf 45:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:16 It's like, uh, I, I had a concussion, not last year but the year before. Went skiing before the pandemic ended, or before the pandemic started. Went skiing, and, uh, this lady was kinda losing control and sliding into this trail. And I was going around the corner and I saw her, and she would, she would... There's no way to get around her, and I was like, "H- I gotta figure..." And I, I, I had to wipe out. I had to just kinda, like, go around her this way. And the skis went up and hit the back of my head off the ground, and I was fucked up. I mean, it was a hard hit. That was, uh... I didn't go unconscious, but I definitely got a concussion, 'cause I was dizzy for the rest of the day and, and I had a hard time with my coordination. Like I, uh, I fell down trying to get on the ski lift, and then I couldn't figure out how to get up properly. Like, like my body wasn't listening right.

Andy Stumpf 46:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:08 This is l- and my daughter's like, "What the fuck is wrong with you?" But like, a lady-

Andy Stumpf 46:11 "Get up, Dad. You're embarrassing me." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:13 It was embarrassing. A, a lady had to grab my arm and help me stand up, which is, you know... I'm a pretty strong person. I can get up pretty easy with skis on-

Andy Stumpf 46:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:22 ... but my body was not listening right. And then the rest of the day I was foggy, and I was like, "Jesus, I didn't need that." And I was thinking about all the times that I've had my bell rang.

Andy Stumpf 46:31 Did you ever at all just consider nuking that lady and going through her?

Joe Rogan 46:35 (laughs) No.

Andy Stumpf 46:36 We're different people. That would-

Joe Rogan 46:36 No, I would've killed her. Uh, I was-

Andy Stumpf 46:39 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 46:39 I was coming around that cor- no. She, she was gonna... It, it would've been terrible.

Andy Stumpf 46:45 Just curious. I'm not saying-

Joe Rogan 46:46 No. No. No.

Andy Stumpf 46:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:47 It would've been terrible. It would've been terrible. It would've been terrible.

Andy Stumpf 46:50 Last time I rung my bell, it was actually at jujitsu. It was, again, completely my fault, and I'm glad I- at, at this point I can... I'm recognizing my mistakes and avoiding them, but I was, guy was turtled up and I was on his back, too far towards his shoulders.

Joe Rogan 47:04 Mm-hmm. He shook you?

Andy Stumpf 47:05 No, I got both of my hands involved over the... It was either one was over and one was under maybe going for a harness of some kind. And completely my fault to do so, but he rolled, and the first thing that hit was my head.

Joe Rogan 47:17 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 47:17 And fuck, I had a headache for days.

Joe Rogan 47:21 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 47:22 And same thing, like, foggy thoughts, very distressed sleep. I was actually, I found myself waking up sweating in the middle of the night.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Oof.

Andy Stumpf 47:30 It's, uh, it- I'm... The, the number of head injuries, um, be very int- I would actually probably pass as well on the brain scan. I, I don't think I actually wanna know what's up there.

Joe Rogan 47:40 I don't wanna know i- i- look, whatever I have right now, it's, I'm maintaining. (laughs) I don't wanna know that it's... I don't... You know. I mean, uh, maybe I should get it checked out. I don't know. You know, the thing about th- those kind of forward pitch things that freak me out is the neck injury. That, that freaks me out more than even the head, I think.

Andy Stumpf 47:59 Oh, the head coming back, you mean?

Joe Rogan 48:01 Yeah. Any time there's a, a m- a movement where weight (thumping) from two guys is on the, the head... One of the guys from, uh, I think it was team Alpha Male... I've heard this happen more than once, where someone shoots for a take-down and the other guy gets a guillotine and falls back. And so as the guy drives forward with the take-down, his head hits first with both of their weight and they paralyze. It- he broke his neck, and he's paralyzed from the neck down. I've heard that happen on more than one occasion, from that exact specific move. A guy shoots in for a double. The other guy, like, r- just goes with it...... with the guillotine and, you know, gets the head to the side, (slaps thigh) and all the weight of the head, uh, all the weight of the two bodies hits the top of the head, and it snaps the neck.

Andy Stumpf 48:45 That sucks.

Joe Rogan 48:46 Fuck, man. That's, that's, that's the scariest shit ever. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 48:49 That, that sucks for both people-

Joe Rogan 48:50 Oh, fuck yeah.

Andy Stumpf 48:50 ... 'cause you know the person who had the guillotine, uh, obviously had no intent to try to do that-

Joe Rogan 48:54 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 48:54 ... and you have to live with that weight. That would suck.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Yeah. Well, you know, anytime you hurt somebody in training, like, anytime, like, something happens and something ... someone gets hurt, you're always thinking about that next time you're training.

Andy Stumpf 49:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:05 Like, whenever you're in a weird position, like a tangle of legs, and y- y- you know, like, uh, someone's knee explodes, like, every time you're in that situation afterwards, you're like, "Oh, shit." Like, you, you're gonna hesitate, you're gonna think.

Andy Stumpf 49:17 Yeah. I've heard that happen only one time on the mat. I heard a guy ... I believe it was his MCL go.

Joe Rogan 49:22 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 49:23 And, uh, everybody freezes and then he starts moving his leg a little bit, and then brace for the next six to eight weeks.

Joe Rogan 49:30 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 49:30 It made me sick to my stomach just hearing it, and I wasn't even directly involved in what was going on.

Joe Rogan 49:34 I had my ACL pop like a carrot. It was a (pops mouth) , it snapped like ... It sounded like a stick, like a stick cracking. It was so loud.

Andy Stumpf 49:43 Is that a cadaver fix?

Joe Rogan 49:44 Yeah, that one was. I've had both of them go. The left one, they did with a patella tendon graft. The right one, they did with a cadaver. The right one was way quicker, it healed quick, and with no, like, real residual pain. The right one was, like ... Six months later, I was doing jujitsu, but the left one, with the patella tendon graft, that was, like, a whole year before it felt good. At least a year.

Andy Stumpf 50:08 Can you trust it as much as you would have before?

Joe Rogan 50:10 Yeah. It's stronger than it w- than it was before. Uh, the ... It's 150% stronger than a regular ACL-

Andy Stumpf 50:16 Huh.

Joe Rogan 50:16 ... because, uh, they don't use an ACL to r- the, the cadaver that they use, they use-

Andy Stumpf 50:20 Oh, they use a stronger tendon?

Joe Rogan 50:21 ... Achilles from a dead dude. And I said, "Just get the biggest football player." (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 50:27 Or woman. I mean, we shouldn't assume.

Joe Rogan 50:29 Yeah. What? Th- th- they get-

Andy Stumpf 50:30 Yeah, they use a man.

Joe Rogan 50:31 I would-

Andy Stumpf 50:31 It's 2022. You shouldn't assume it was a dude.

Joe Rogan 50:33 I was ... I wanted a dude.

Andy Stumpf 50:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:35 A big dude, a dude way bigger than me.

Andy Stumpf 50:37 I'll take, I'll take a linebacker off the Chiefs, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:37 Yeah, that's what I want. I want some just giant Viking motherfucker's-

Andy Stumpf 50:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:41 ... Achilles tendon. Give me his shit. Screw that in place.

Andy Stumpf 50:45 Yeah, I've been lucky, I've been lucky so far with injuries. I haven't had any knee stuff. It's ... I d- I roll more defensively after that day, um-

Joe Rogan 50:52 Mm, you have to.

Andy Stumpf 50:53 I have to because I don't wanna spend time off the mat. Man, it's so much fun, man. I love it.

Joe Rogan 50:56 It is so fun.

Andy Stumpf 50:57 I love it.

Joe Rogan 50:57 What belt are you now?

Andy Stumpf 50:58 Purple.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Oh, shit. << Moving on up, moving on up >>

Andy Stumpf 51:02 Moving on up the fuck of nowhere.

Joe Rogan 51:03 How many years now? Uh, three ...

Andy Stumpf 51:06 (sighs) 3 1/2.

Joe Rogan 51:09 And how many days a week?

Andy Stumpf 51:10 Eight.

Joe Rogan 51:11 Really?

Andy Stumpf 51:12 (laughs) No, I go, like, five days a week.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Well, e- eight is ... To me, it's, like, twice a day once.

Andy Stumpf 51:17 I do ... I will usually do two hours a day, five days a week.

Joe Rogan 51:20 That's a lot.

Andy Stumpf 51:21 My schedule-

Joe Rogan 51:21 Five days a week's a lot.

Andy Stumpf 51:22 My schedule allows for it.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Yeah?

Andy Stumpf 51:24 And, uh, so that's usually a class for an hour and then an open mat for an hour.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Wow. Dude, that's-

Andy Stumpf 51:28 I love it.

Joe Rogan 51:29 That's awesome. That's awesome.

Andy Stumpf 51:30 I, I think I like the mental aspect of it more, the problem-solving.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 51:34 I like the fact that it's hard. I don't-

Joe Rogan 51:37 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 51:38 I don't think I enjoy things as a person that are easy, or easy to me. I don't find a lot of fulfillment and enrichment from that.

Joe Rogan 51:44 No, no one does. I mean, what, what is good that's easy?

Andy Stumpf 51:48 Yeah. And plus, if you're waking up in the middle of the night, still trying to figure out how somebody did that to you-

Joe Rogan 51:51 Right.

Andy Stumpf 51:52 ... that's ... You're like, you're like, "Fuck." (gasps) You're like, "Oh, that motherfucker. I'm gonna get him next time." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:57 It's the best motivation for cardio. I find myself ... Like, to this day, I'll be on the fucking ... the air, assault bike, and I'll be doing those Tabata reps, and I'll think about-

Andy Stumpf 52:08 It's the worst.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... someone who tapped me 'cause I was tired, like, 10 years ago. (laughs) I'll think about this moment where I know I could've pulled out of a triangle, but I was just too fucking exhausted, and then I wound up getting tapped. I'm like, "Shit."

Andy Stumpf 52:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:22 I'm just fucking, "Aah." Have you heard of Tabatas?

Andy Stumpf 52:24 It's amazing how those-

Joe Rogan 52:25 You ever do Tabatas?

Andy Stumpf 52:25 Oh, yeah. 20 on, 10 off, for eight rounds.

Joe Rogan 52:27 Th- It's so effect- ... Whoever figured that out, I guess his name was Tabata.

Andy Stumpf 52:31 Ezzuti? Dr. Ezzuti Tabata.

Joe Rogan 52:32 The ... What is it ... What a genius way to expand your cardiovascular capability, 'cause it really is genius.

Andy Stumpf 52:38 You can do it with anything to include body weight. So, I used to work for-

Joe Rogan 52:41 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 52:41 ... CrossFit, and one of the first things that they would do is they would give every- get everybody out, air squats. Tabata air squats. And your score was based off the maximum number that you could hold through the eight rounds. So, if you did 30 air squats in the first round, but four in the eighth-

Joe Rogan 52:56 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 52:57 ... your score is four.

Joe Rogan 52:58 Oh, really?

Andy Stumpf 52:59 And so ... And most people, I think, around 20 would be pretty good. If that was your first exposure to that, though, you are gonna be, you're gonna be either looking for a wheelchair the next few days or walking like you have no fine motor control over your legs.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 53:15 You can do it with the kettlebells, Tabatas with the dumbbell. You can do it sprinting. It's, it's one of the most effective protocols that I've ever touched.

Joe Rogan 53:22 I wonder how he figured that out, how he figured out that 20 sprint, 20-second sprint, 10-second rest, 20-second sprint, 10-second rest.

Andy Stumpf 53:29 Have you ever played with, like, 30/15 or 30/10?

Joe Rogan 53:31 No, I've only done 20/10.

Andy Stumpf 53:32 I haven't either, and I don't know why, 'cause maybe ... I don't know. I would imagine he messed around with it until he found the optimal ... I think he was working with racers, actually.

Joe Rogan 53:41 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 53:41 Endurance racers. My, my memory might be off on this, but I'm ... I think it had something to do with increasing cardiorespiratory capacity without doing long, slow distance.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 53:52 Pretty sure.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 53:54 I also could be completely wrong.

Joe Rogan 53:56 Well, it's, it's a weird protocol, right? Like, the f- 20 seconds of going all out, and then 10 seconds of rest, and 20 seconds of all ou- But I found when I d- was doing that for a while, I had an injury, and I couldn't hit the bag for quite a while, and then I was d- but it wa- uh, uh, I was still okay to do that. And then, when I went back to hitting the bag, I lost very little in terms of cardiovascular capacity. I was like, "That's pretty impressive."

Andy Stumpf 54:19 It's pretty commonly accepted, I think, now, like, long slow distance runners, they can maintain what they have, if not add to it, by doing shorter interval work.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Really?

Andy Stumpf 54:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Interesting.

Andy Stumpf 54:28 I mean, I know ...... well, I don't know any incredibly high level ones, but I know people who can perform at that level, and they're not going past like a 400 meter.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Hmm.

Andy Stumpf 54:35 Maybe at most some repeats of 800, like one on, one off.

Joe Rogan 54:39 So when you would do Tabatas, like how many cycles of Tabta- like, uh, on, I have a Echo Bike from Rogue.

Andy Stumpf 54:45 I have exactly the same bike.

Joe Rogan 54:46 That is the shit.

Andy Stumpf 54:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 54:47 That bike is the shit. It is so good. And it's so fucking sturdy.

Andy Stumpf 54:51 I was just gonna say, I think it could survive a nuclear blast. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:53 (laughs) It's so good.

Andy Stumpf 54:54 It's good. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:55 Rogue makes awesome stuff.

Andy Stumpf 54:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:56 It's so well designed. But when I would do, uh, I would do a cycle of eight. So I would do eight sprints.

Andy Stumpf 55:02 You would do it eight times?

Joe Rogan 55:04 No. I would... Well, I've done that too.

Andy Stumpf 55:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:06 But, you know, that's like what's programmed into it, every time you want to do it. Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 55:08 That, that is the traditional Tabata interval is eight rounds of 20 on, 10 off. It should take four minutes.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Yeah. So that doesn't seem like a lot of cardio.

Andy Stumpf 55:18 Uh, I think it depends on how hard you go.

Joe Rogan 55:20 Right. But four minutes is still f- just four minutes.

Andy Stumpf 55:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:23 You think in terms of like long-term en- endurance base.

Andy Stumpf 55:27 You'd d- you... I think you would need to pile volume on top of that.

Joe Rogan 55:29 Right. Um-

Andy Stumpf 55:30 Well, I've done that. I've done eight rounds of that, and it's brutal. Eight rounds of eight reps.

Joe Rogan 55:37 Yeah, that's bordering on psychotic.

Andy Stumpf 55:40 Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 55:40 But just on that bike, you did that? Ugh. I just-

Andy Stumpf 55:43 There's-

Joe Rogan 55:43 I've only done it a few times, but then you're- I'm wrecked for days afterwards.

Andy Stumpf 55:47 For people out here, out there listening who think that like, "Oh, four minutes, is it really that hard?" I have, I have a suggestion. Go get an empty 45-pound barbell. Do you know what a thruster is?

Joe Rogan 55:57 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 55:58 Where you start in a front squat-

Joe Rogan 55:59 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 55:59 ... you go all the way down, and you drive it overhead.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 56:00 For 20 seconds, do as many as you can, take 10 seconds off and repeat that eight times and let me know how hard you think four minutes is.

Joe Rogan 56:08 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 56:08 There's a good chance you'll shit yourself if you've never done that before. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:11 Yeah, there's a lot of things that are really easy the first time you do them.

Andy Stumpf 56:14 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Like the very first rep.

Andy Stumpf 56:15 That's not easy though.

Joe Rogan 56:16 But I mean, the first rep.

Andy Stumpf 56:17 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:17 And you're like, "Oh."

Andy Stumpf 56:17 Like ten reps in, you're like, "I am... Basically-

Joe Rogan 56:20 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 56:20 ... Marvel should be making a movie about me."

Joe Rogan 56:22 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 56:22 "I'm Thor's bigger brother." And then in the third round, you're questioning your life choices.

Joe Rogan 56:27 There's a great kettlebell series, uh, by this guy Keith Weber, uh, uh, Kettlebell Cardio Extreme, and I would do this with either a 35-pound or a 45-pound kettlebell. And you pick up a 35-pound kettlebell, you're like, "This is nothing. This is so light. What, what is, how's this gonna be difficult for me?"

Andy Stumpf 56:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:45 Two minutes in, you're ready to die. And this is like, he does... I th- I think his program is like a half an hour. It's like this crazy half-hour workout that basically does your whole body-

Andy Stumpf 56:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:56 ... with one kettlebell. And so with this one DVD, and Keith is a great guy. I've had him on the podcast before. With this one kettlebell, this one video, you, you get this insane cardio workout with a, a single 35-pound kettlebell.

Andy Stumpf 57:11 I owned a gym in Coronado when I was still in the military and I would introduce people to the movements with PVC pipe.

Joe Rogan 57:17 Really?

Andy Stumpf 57:18 And I mean, what an eas- what a simple-

Joe Rogan 57:20 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 57:20 ... way, 'cause it's linear, and you can get them to move, and there's no consequences with the weight. But you can demolish people with a PVC pipe on-

Joe Rogan 57:29 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 57:29 ... upon first exposure. I'm talking shaking like a dog shitting a razor blade with a six-ounce-

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 57:35 ... piece of pipe.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 57:36 So, I think it's all about the exposure.

Joe Rogan 57:38 It is. It's, well, it's just using your body, just body weight stuff, with no weight at all. There's so many movements that you can do that will crush you. Just do split squats with just body weights and try to stand up, you know? Like-

Andy Stumpf 57:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:52 ... it's hard. Body weight stuff, you can, you can... Like when s- people say, "I can't afford a gym," like guess what? You're in luck. (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 57:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:00 'Cause you could basically b- bring your heart to the brink of exploding in a, a small room with nothing but your own weight and gravity.

Andy Stumpf 58:09 The first workout I... So for, I would say the first nine years when I was in the military, it was back and bis, chest and tris, and then legs. And by that, I mean a shirtless run on the beach, repeated for like nine years. The first time I did a CrossFit style workout, it was actually, um, I was introduced to it through Mark Twight, who's an amazing alpinist, has done some just spectacular stuff, and he's a wealth of knowledge. And I forget the exact structure, but it was squats, a kettlebell swing, and pull-ups. And it was... It started at a high number and it... The workout is called Jones Worthy. And at the end of it, I felt, I was like, "Okay, like my body feels a little bit different." The next morning I fell down my stairs because my legs refused to work. That's how much it destroyed me. And I think the workout took like six to eight minutes. And I had been around weights my entire adult life. And I'm talking to the point where like you need a, y- a rappel harness to get onto the toilet because like as you're squatting down-

Joe Rogan 59:11 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 59:11 ... your legs give out, and you're gonna blast the bowl out behind you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:14 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 59:14 It's just like holding onto the door for dear life so you can actually not break the porcelain.

Joe Rogan 59:19 But do you, like... Is that the best way to get strong or should you build up so that that never happens? Right? You know, the Pavel Totsulinej method-

Andy Stumpf 59:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:31 ... like some of the greasing the groove method. Like in his world, you never get to that point where you're that broken down.

Andy Stumpf 59:39 For clarity, I did it to myself. It was-

Joe Rogan 59:41 Right.

Andy Stumpf 59:41 ... a completely new stimulus, and I said, "How hard can this be?"

Joe Rogan 59:44 Right.

Andy Stumpf 59:44 Me and a buddy, and we were literally crippled for days.

Joe Rogan 59:46 For clarity. But if-

Andy Stumpf 59:47 For clarity.

Joe Rogan 59:48 But if you're gonna do it for optimum en-

Andy Stumpf 59:50 I would expose people very gradually, and I would do a mix of that type of conditioning and pure strength, because I can't think of a single, uh, downside to being strong.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 No.

Andy Stumpf 1:00:00 But you also need to have capacity as well.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 No, there's no downside to being strong. But y- you know, w- how do you feel about that, like this school of thought, like the Pavel school of thought is you never go to failure. You just give yourself much more time in between the repetitions. You do, like if you could do 10, you only do five, but then you do more sets.

Andy Stumpf 1:00:20 I don't have the knowledge or experience to e- even be able to comment on it. I mean, I m- I messed around, and when I owned the gym, I was... It was a CrossFit gym, and I was, uh, administering that type of coaching. So I don't, I don't have the knowledge base to be able to say. I know that when I changed my conditioning from-... I think the heaviest I was was probably 225, and that's before I put on any of my ballerina gear. And then I got down to about 195, or maybe 200. But the lighter I got, the more capable I was. And I actually... by changing the way that I trained, I actually got stronger and more capable. Um, but I don't know... I don't have any experience outside of, like, genres of exercise beyond that, so I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Yeah, there's so many different schools of thought in terms of, like, what's best for performance.

Andy Stumpf 1:01:07 What would you say is best for jujitsu? What would you recommend for people with a strength training regimen?

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 I think most people feel that kettlebells are one of the best m- modalities for strength and conditioning for jujitsu. Kettlebells, chin-ups, and, you know, things, things along those lines. Because one of the things about kettlebells is that it, it forces your body to work as a, as a unit, right? Like, when you're doing things that aren't sexy. Like, Turkish get-ups are a perfect example. Like, that is a phenomenal exercise for jujitsu, because it really does work your ca- your core, it really does work your shoulders, really does work your legs. It works everything.

Andy Stumpf 1:01:43 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 And it's not bench and tris. It's not, you know, doing chest and biceps.

Andy Stumpf 1:01:50 Show muscles, if you will.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Yeah, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:01:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 It's, it's not sexy, and it's not fun either. Like, when you're doing it, it's a, it's a grueling t- type of workout. But I think those and, like, gorilla cleans, where you have, like, you know, one on each side, uh, clean press, uh, squats, and doing, uh, reverse, uh, you know, lunges, and then reverse lu- uh, backward lunges. And, like, things where you're forcing yourself to balance out that weight while you're, you're moving. I think those are probably some of the best exercises for jujitsu. And then, another thing that's really good for jujitsu is yoga. Yoga's phenomenal for jujitsu. It really is, because it forces you to be able to hold positions and breathe and control your body, and control your breath in those positions. And also, you maintain flexibility and strength in, in... especially, like, around the joints surrounding and... like, you, with your knee joints when you're standing on one leg, balancing, like, how it promotes stability-

Andy Stumpf 1:02:48 You find it helps with recovery?

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 Yeah, I think it helps recovery. I think it helps keep your body limber too, which I think is very important in jujitsu.

Andy Stumpf 1:02:55 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 'Cause there's always... there's positions where y- having a little bit more flexibility is very beneficial. Like, some of the best jujitsu guys are very flexible. Like, Rickson Gracie, famously, was, like, very into yoga when he was young.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 And h- was... The thing that I th- There's many things that separated him from other people, but I think one of them was his physicality.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:16 (smacks lips) Yeah, he was u- I mean, I've never met the guy. Uh, uh, the movie Choke is unbelievable, where it goes through his whole-

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Oh, my God, it's the best. Choke is the best.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:24 He was, he was one of a kind, for sure, though. It seems like they broke-

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:26 ... the mold with that guy a little bit. There was some natural talent built in there with, also, a benefit of having, um, you know, Gracie as your last name-

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:33 ... and being born into that. But goddamn, he was, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 No, he was something special. He-

Andy Stumpf 1:03:38 Do you get to train much anymore?

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 Not in m- Not right now, but I'm getting over some injuries. Uh, I'm getting over some knee injuries. Uh, I think I'll be able to train soon again.

Andy Stumpf 1:03:47 Do you do mostly gi or no gi?

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 (smacks lips) Mostly no gi these days, but I'm not averse to doing the gi. If, uh, you know, if I decide to... I would, I'd like to do both coming back again. I've had a gi-

Andy Stumpf 1:04:00 Do you have a full, full spat collection?

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Oh, yeah, I got all that stuff. I got rash guards and-

Andy Stumpf 1:04:05 Do they match?

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 I have some that match. I have some from you. You sent me some rash guards. I have some clear not-

Andy Stumpf 1:04:10 I did. I did. I got some hard being made right now at-

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Oh, yeah?

Andy Stumpf 1:04:12 ... Origin. Shout out to Pete and Jocko. So I went to their camp, their immersion camp.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 Is that in Maine?

Andy Stumpf 1:04:18 (clears throat) It is in Maine. It's literally adult jujitsu camp. And I say that because you're staying at a campground, in, like, a cabin, in a bunk bed, and you just go do jujitsu. We did 21 sessions over, I think it was, five days, with an open mat after. I f-... I don't... There's only one no gi class per week where I train, but we'll just pop the gi t- gi off.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Mm-hmm.

Andy Stumpf 1:04:42 Uh, the gi top off, the kimono top off, and you, you can do that. So, the point I'm getting to is I was unprepared for the level of enthusiasm that no-gi players have for their outfits.

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:04:55 Holy fucking shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 So most of your training, you do gi?

Andy Stumpf 1:04:59 Yeah, but I'd pop the top off and, and roll no gi. But I... Like, I have a rash guard top, like the ones that I sent you.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 But you use gi bottoms?

Andy Stumpf 1:05:08 Yeah. Or o- occasionally, I'll go to a no-dgi class and throw on a pair of board shorts. I- And nothing against it whatsoever. The vast majority of the classes where I train that I can go to with my time schedule are gi. So I roll to this no-gi class-

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:05:20 ... at the immersion camp, which anybody who's in the jujitsu world should absolutely go. I have it, like, blocked off on my calendar till the end of time 'cause it's amazing. Great-

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 What time of year is it?

Andy Stumpf 1:05:28 It's the last week in August, I believe. I roll in there, and there, there are grown men in spats and rash guards that are like unicorns, like, prancing off into the sunset.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:05:42 There was a dude in a full Deadpool outpit, outfit-

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Ah! (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:05:45 ... from bottom to top.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Nice.

Andy Stumpf 1:05:47 I, I was completely shocked at the amount-

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Bottom to top? Like, his... He had, like, the face thing?

Andy Stumpf 1:05:51 Head to toe, fucking straight... No, he didn't have the thing that came over the head. That would actually-

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 That would've been the shit.

Andy Stumpf 1:05:56 It would've been the shit, but also a little bit scary. Um, I...

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:05:59 These people must spend an inordinate amount of time, like, "Does this, does this ba- spats, do they go with this top?" It was unfucking believable. And then there was also people there who... I don't know your rule on this, but I say there has to be a minimum of four layers. There has to be spats or boxers and a pair of shorts between your dick and my dick.

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 (laughs) What about a cup?

Andy Stumpf 1:06:22 That should be fine.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 There should be a cup.

Andy Stumpf 1:06:23 There could be... That's, that's personal-

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 Do you roll with a cup on?

Andy Stumpf 1:06:25 Nope.

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 Oh, you should roll with a cup on.

Andy Stumpf 1:06:28 Uh, okay. I mean, I'll give it a try.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 You... The, the reason being is I got kneed in the dick once. And, uh, after I got out and, uh, I went into the locker room and my...... jockstrap was filled with blood.

Andy Stumpf 1:06:41 (laughs)

Narrator 1:06:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 And I was like, "Oh, no." And so I looked for a cut, and then I realized the blood was coming out of the tip of my dick, which means there was damage inside-

Andy Stumpf 1:06:49 That's trauma, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 ... my dick. Yeah. So that-

Andy Stumpf 1:06:52 So-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 ... was the last day I rolled without a cup.

Andy Stumpf 1:06:54 But people need to, they need to grasp this four-layer principle, because there were people at the Origin camp, you know, they make boxers that you're supposed to wear under your other shit.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 And-

Andy Stumpf 1:07:04 And there were a handful of people out there, in the no-gi session-

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 Just boxers.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:09 ... straight boxers-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 With the, the cock flying free.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:12 One layer.

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:07:13 One unacceptable fucking layer between their dick and every part of my body. For-

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 Ugh. (laughs)

Narrator 1:07:19 (laughs)

Andy Stumpf 1:07:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Just this, a thin piece of cloth.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:22 (exhales) I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Covering the hammer.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:23 ... I don't need to know that much about people.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 Yeah, I don't, I don't need to know that either.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:27 But I was shocked. I couldn't believe the ensembles and the wardrobe of the no-gi players. I, I actually was relatively impressed. The amount of money that it would take and time to put those outfits together.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 At 10th Planet, we have a, a wide d- array of designs. There's-

Andy Stumpf 1:07:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 There's a lot of, like-

Andy Stumpf 1:07:43 It's unbelievable. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:43 ... pretty dope 10th Planet Jiujitsu rash guard-

Andy Stumpf 1:07:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 ... selections. Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:48 Yeah, there was dragons out there.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:50 Like I said, there was unicorns, there was sunsets and sunrises.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Skulls and shit.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:54 Skulls were everywhere. It's, like, mandatory, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 Skulls.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:56 Like, blue belt and above, it had to be a skull.

Joe Rogan 1:07:57 Rah. Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:07:59 But that c- that camp was awesome. I, I left that with my eyes pretty opened as to what... There's just so many different levels.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 So who was teaching these camps?

Andy Stumpf 1:08:08 Uh, so Pete obviously is the, one of the co-founders of Origin. Dideko was there. Um, Alexey was there. Laboriau was there. Jocko was there. Dean Lister.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 Ricardo Laboriau?

Andy Stumpf 1:08:20 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 Oh, nice.

Andy Stumpf 1:08:21 He is one of the nicest men I've ever met in my entire life.

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 Ah, he's a great guy.

Andy Stumpf 1:08:25 Phenomenal. Uh, Jocko and Dean were there. Echo was there. Um, Leah, uh, was teaching there. They had another woman come in. Um, it wa- it was really diverse, and then they would split. Uh, they would go different experience levels, and it would alternate from, I mean, top position, bottom position, sweeps, escapes, submissions. It was really cool. It was a lot. I mean, it was a fire hose, for sure, um, and I'm glad I went into it with at least a little bit of experience so I could understand, A, what they're talking about and at least try it. But, uh, I would recommend anybody who's into jiujitsu, go for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 And it was a week long?

Andy Stumpf 1:08:58 It was... Well, you don't have to do a week. I think they break it up into, like, a portion A and a portion B. We went for portion A and B, and I'm glad-

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 S-

Andy Stumpf 1:09:05 ... that we did it.

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 Nice. So you stay there?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 You eat there, the whole deal?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:08 It's, it's literally a summer camp. I'm not joking.

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 Wow.

Andy Stumpf 1:09:10 It's adult. It's adult summer camp.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 So we have to sleep in bunks?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:14 Um, I think there may be other options. I don't know enough about it to...

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 Did you sleep in a bunk?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:20 I slept in a bed. It was a sing- it was like, a queen size bed.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 And there was room for all, a bunch of dudes sorta sleeping in beds?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:26 Pete hooked us up because I, uh, had, um, a good friend of mine and his girlfriend go out there, and I went out there with my girlfriend as well, so we had our own cabins.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Is Pete from Maine? Is that what the deal is, why Origin is located up there?

Andy Stumpf 1:09:39 I think he is.

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 It's cold as fuck up there in the winter, bro.

Andy Stumpf 1:09:42 I mean, he wears a Canadian tuxedo in the middle of winter up there.

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 1:09:45 I feel like he has to be from Maine with that outfit, denim head to toe.

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 Mm.

Andy Stumpf 1:09:49 Which I'm pretty sure doesn't conduct body heat well.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 You see these fucking truckers that are still camped out in Ottawa, in, in Canada right now? It's like, 20 below zero.

Andy Stumpf 1:10:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 And they have everything clogged up with their trucks up there. And Trudeau is now hiding in America, apparently.

Andy Stumpf 1:10:06 No way.

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 Yeah, yeah. They, they... Apparently, he escaped Canada.

Andy Stumpf 1:10:12 I don't know-

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Now, whether or not he made it to America, whether or not that's true, I think he's in an undisclosed location 'cause they're worried about threats of violence from these, uh, truck drivers. But-

Andy Stumpf 1:10:22 I don't feel like that what they're threatening is violence. I think they're trying to have-

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 Uh, yeah, I haven't seen any threats of violence.

Andy Stumpf 1:10:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 I mean, but maybe they know, maybe they're privy to things that we don't know.

Andy Stumpf 1:10:31 I mean, I'm, I'm sure if you get a large enough group of people together, there's gonna be some wahoos in there. But to me, and I'm not following it incredibly