EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,232 words- 0:00 – 3:21
Meeting Sadhguru, Inner Engineering, and a Save Soil gift (Indian mint)
- NANarrator
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Pleasure to meet you.
- SASadhguru
How close should this shoot be? Right here?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right there. That's good. Yeah, like, like a fist from your face-
- SASadhguru
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is what I usually tell people. Well, I'm enjoying your book.
- SASadhguru
What, which one are you reading?
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm in the middle of, uh...
- SASadhguru
Which one?
- JRJoe Rogan
Inner Engineering.
- SASadhguru
Oh, okay. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Why is that funny? Is that a funny one?
- SASadhguru
Uh, no. That was the... I mean, after that, three books have come, so I was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SASadhguru
... thinking you must have gotten a more recent one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I found some of your stuff online, and I started, uh, watching some of your videos online, and they're very interesting and very, uh, educational. And then I said, "All right, let me find out what this guy's all about." And so-
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... I got into that book.
- SASadhguru
That's good.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did you find out about me? Because your people reached out to, to be on here.
- SASadhguru
Well, uh, right now, uh, we are on this, uh, soil mission. I brought you a little bit of gift. It's an Indian mint.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Indian mint?
- SASadhguru
Uh, this, uh, leaf, on empty stomach, if you just chew two leaves, they're not very pleasant to eat, and then drink some maybe tepid water-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- SASadhguru
... it is a, a great blood purifier.
- JRJoe Rogan
Blood purifier?
- SASadhguru
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. How's it purify your blood? How's that work?
- SASadhguru
Um, it has the necessary juices in it to do that.
- JRJoe Rogan
The necessary juices. Save Soil.
- 3:21 – 6:52
Soil depletion and why topsoil loss becomes a human crisis
- JRJoe Rogan
So, you're on this, uh, grand tour right now, you were saying. You just got back from... You were in New York, right?
- SASadhguru
Yes. I was in... I just came from India, uh, two days ago. Then I was in New York, uh, Tennessee, New York, and here, and today, this night, I'm leaving for Caribbean, because we are, uh, making, signing some memorand- memorandum of understanding with the CARICOM nations for the soil, Save Soil movement.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
So, they're all coming on board. We have made a policy document specific for each country, depending on their latitude, soil types, economic conditions, and agricultural traditions of an individual nation. Based on this, 192 nations, we've made soil policies.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, this is something that you're very concerned about, and rightly so, that there's, uh, a, a problem with the topsoil in America, uh, in particular, that we've been aware of for a long time. Where there's only, like... What is, what's the number? Like, 45 years worth of topsoil left, if we go about the practices the same way?
- SASadhguru
Generally, most, uh, UN agencies are talking about, uh, something like, uh, 60 to 80 harvests, which could be somewhere between 45 to 60 years of, uh, topsoil. But it's not like it's suddenly going to get over one day. It's not like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
... it's not like a bank account. It'll start sliding, which is already sliding. So, sliding means, on one level, there is loss of nutrients in the food, and another level, the yields are coming down. We are going on increasing the inputs. The input cost is going up. They tell me, uh, 50% of the American farmers have not seen a dollar in the last 12 years, and the highest suicide rate among all professions is among the farming community in United States. It-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SASadhguru
Yes. It is so in India also.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know it's in India, and I thought they attributed that a lot to debt. There were some issues with-
- SASadhguru
See, but why debt? Okay? Why the debt is piling up? See you take... The banks give debt only what is suitable for that crop, all right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
It's not like they're going to give you a billion dollars to do some farming. They're going to calculate and give you, "Why is he not able to pay it back?" He's not able to pay it back, one main reason is the input cost is going up year on year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
Because the soil fertility is going down and the input cost is going up, to a point where it's no more practical to do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
There was also some sort of an, uh, an issue with Monsanto, correct?
- SASadhguru
Th- Those things are there, but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't think that's a big deal?
- SASadhguru
It would be if it came big time, but, uh, Monsanto is not so big time in India yet.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not?
- SASadhguru
Oh, no. The policies have kind of blocked it and made it regulated, so we are not... we have not taken to GMO crops in a big way. Only a few, uh, a few items we have taken. Even that, people are protesting. And generally, farmers are aware and most people... large number of farmers have rejected it. So, that's a different aspect. See, the problem is always, uh, we are always seeing whom to hit, all right? So, this is a movement which is not against anybody because in this one thing, we can all come together as one. We may be of different nations, we may be of different, uh, racial, uh, backgrounds, religious backgrounds, caste, creed, gender, whatever, and political ideologies, whatever. But we all come from soil, live off the soil, and when (laughs) we die, we go back to the soil.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 6:52 – 8:50
Organic vs practical agriculture: why ‘just go organic’ isn’t a simple switch
- SASadhguru
The only question we have in our life is, will we get this, that... Soil is the basis of our existence here, will we get this now or will we get it when we're buried? That's the (laughs) only choice we have. So having said that, see, people are talking about organic farming. These are all urban people talking about it. They've never farmed in their life, they don't know what it means to do organic farming. Right now, if the world shifts to organic farming hundred percent, let's say tomorrow morning, our food production in the world will come down to 20 to 25% of what it is right now. So, that is death for, uh, most of the population.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, when they're talking about organic farming, they're talking about farming with no pesticides, no herbicides.
- SASadhguru
No pesticides, no fertilizer, all this. For this too-
- JRJoe Rogan
No fertilizer?
- SASadhguru
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fertilizer is non-organic?
- SASadhguru
Yes, it is chemical fertilizer, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- SASadhguru
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But what about organic fertilizer?
- SASadhguru
That is a manure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
Okay? That is... Organic content is different.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, that's okay.
- SASadhguru
So, people who are talking about this, it's an ideal life, okay?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
But will f- farmer who is doing it for his commercial requirement, will he be able to conduct his agriculture in an idealistic way? No, believe me. I've been engaged with farmers, it's not like that. It's like you're eating good food, but if you have yourself checked up, uh, your doctor may say, "Well, your calcium is a little deficient, your iron is deficient."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
"So take these two pills." So, you took these two pills and tomorrow you felt great. Then you decided you don't have to really eat food, you can just eat a lot of these pills and you will be fine. That is how we have done agriculture. We had rich soil. In that, whatever is deficient, we... we put a little bit of nitrogen or phosphate or something. Suddenly, the crops burst out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
Then we forgot that we have to put organic content. We just started putting these salts forever, and in 25 to 30 years' time, the soil becomes fallow.
- 8:50 – 11:19
Nutrient density collapse, public health, and the ‘pharmacy culture’ critique
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. There's a book I read years ago called Dead Doctors Don't Lie by a man named Dr. Joel Wallach, and it talked about mineral deficiencies from top soils.
- SASadhguru
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was a big issue. And one of the... the things that he brought up is that people who grow, um, uh, agriculture and, uh, have animals h- have known forever that they have to supplement the animals' diets with minerals, and that this is primarily because the food that they're getting-
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... is not minerally sufficient.
- SASadhguru
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's the same thing with our own food, is that even though you can grow a lot of these vegetables, you're not getting the same nutrients-
- SASadhguru
Not at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that you would if you had rich topsoil.
- SASadhguru
Not at all. See, the amount of, uh, nourishment or micronutrients that you got from a given vegetable, let's say in early 20th century, let's say, uh, 1920, and today what you're getting from the same thing is approximately 10% of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
10%?
- SASadhguru
Yes. 90% drop has happened.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So it's enough-
- SASadhguru
Especially this-
- JRJoe Rogan
... to grow the food-
- SASadhguru
These studies are available in United States.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
Everywhere in the world, there are not enough studies, but it could be a similar number, if not the same amount. It could be something like that, anywhere between 10 to 25%, let's say. For example, if you ate an orange in, uh, tw- uh, 1920, today to get the same stuff, you will have to eat eight oranges.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- SASadhguru
So it's simply not practical. So people think this malnourishment, these problems, and this, uh, starvation, these things will happen only to Africa or South America or somewhere. No. Uh, World Food Program predicts that by 2035, there could be famines around Illinois region.
- JRJoe Rogan
Illinois?
- SASadhguru
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? Because the food that they're eating is deficient in nutrients?
- SASadhguru
No. The thing is, the soil has been so used up. You've heard of, uh, 1930s, uh, the Dust Bowl.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
Yesterday, I was in New York and I was talking to somebody there. So they're saying that, uh, some... whatever volume, I don't know the volume, but, uh, some enormous amount of dust came and settled in New York City, uh, when the dust bowls just came up, like, you know? It just blinded the whole cou- half the country. So people are calculating how many whatever million tons or hundreds and thousands of tons of, uh, dust or soil landed up in New York City. See, it stopped in New York City because of the tall buildings and stuff, but how many millions of tons of soil, American soil, went and landed in Atlantic Ocean? That you can never (laughs) calculate, right?
- 11:19 – 28:41
Monoculture, soil as a living ecosystem, and regenerative alternatives
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. When... Th- th- when farmers are growing these monocrop, uh, agriculture, like if they're... they're growing corn or soy or things like that, uh, is that part of the problems? It's, uh,-
- SASadhguru
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... not enough regenerative agriculture-
- SASadhguru
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... not enough manure, animals grazing in the same lands?
- SASadhguru
Monoculture is a, um, a basic problem, okay? And, uh, we've gotten into this kind of thing because we are looking at soil like a... some industrial machine that we put in so much and we have to get so much. But soil is a living thing. If you take a handful of soil, there are anywhere between 7 to 10 thou- 10 billion organisms in it, anywhere between 50 to 75,000 species of organisms in it. But, uh, now with... we are plowing with machines, it plows anywhere between 12 to 14 inches.Eighty-seven percent of the life on this planet, including you and me, come from the first 12 to 15 inches of the soil. But we are plowing the soil 12 to 14 inches, leaving it open to harsh sunlight and leaving it like that for months. That itself is a tremendous damage. We have taken to this because of monoculture, you crop everything at once. If it was multi-culture, you would, uh, crop one thing, the other th- other thing would be still there. And when you... by the time you cropped that, another one would have again grown up, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
There would be some greenery on the soil and organic, uh, activity would be going on. Microorganisms would be alive and active. But now, it's a single crop. You take everything out by machines, plow it, and leave it open to the sun. That's causing a massive damage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, th- if we do it another way, if you have a bunch of different plants growing there and you, you leave trees for shade and all sorts, is there enough land with what you're... what they're growing on now, with the amount of food that they're growing now, is this scalable?
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
If you have some sort of regenerative agriculture plan?
- SASadhguru
We can grow much more on much less land.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SASadhguru
Yes. See, we have been doing this for over 24, 25 years now. We've converted a few hundred thousand farmers into what is called as tree-based agriculture. Earlier, we used to call it as, uh, uh, agroforestry. Then it came under trouble because, uh, then the whole thing went under the Forest Ministry.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SASadhguru
(laughs) Forest Ministry is full of restrictions. It is actually agricultural land, but it was called as agroforestry.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- SASadhguru
So, we retitled it as tree-based agriculture. So, now it's under the Agriculture Ministry because it's farmer's land, it's not forest land.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
So, by doing this properly, there are scientific ways of doing it. Different crops can be done differently and pruning the trees at the right time and taking that... Uh, see, enough green material should be generated on the farm. Enough animal waste must be generated on the farm. Right now, animals have gone out of the farms and trees have gone off the farm. So, where is the organic material?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
These are only two s- two sources of organic material that you have in the world. You may have any ki-... (laughs) Because I've been in California in the last month, and whatever you say, somebody comes up and says, "Sadhguru, my friend has made an app. It can solve any problem."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- SASadhguru
See, with technology, you may be able to improve the application. I'll give that margin. But you cannot generate organic content with technology. It's only plant life and animal life which can create organic content. There is no way you can generate organic content anywhere else. It has to come from the land. Simply, there is no other way. If I can tell you a joke, you getting very serious about this soil business.
- JRJoe Rogan
I love a joke.
- SASadhguru
(laughs) This happened in 2060. A few scientists, uh, from the planet got an appointment with God. They wanted to meet him. They went there and said, "Hey, old man, you've done pretty well with creation. But today, everything that you can do, we can also do. It's time you retire." God said, "Oh, is that so? What is it that you can do?" So, they dug up little bit of soil and made a vague picture of a, a human child and did so many things. And within a few minutes, the child set up a life. God said, "Oh, that's really impressive, but first get your own soil."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- SASadhguru
Everything, whether it's a worm or an insect or a plant or a bird or an animal or human beings, we've all come from soil. There is nothing else here on this planet which is not the s- the source is not soil. Everything, the source is soil.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, say, if you have something that's a large mono crop like corn, it's a big one in America, and you wanted to transfor- transform the way they're growing corn and make it so that it's sustainable and that you have some sort of regener- regenerative agriculture situation, how would you do that?
- SASadhguru
See, if you want to grow mono crops, I, I wouldn't advise that. I w- that's not the best way to do it. But for commercial reasons, you want to do mono cropping. All right?
- 28:41 – 41:56
From soil to psyche: happiness, profit, and ‘heaven collapsing’ into chemicals
- JRJoe Rogan
In search of human well-being.
- SASadhguru
Yeah. Human beings trying to be happy, human beings trying to live well, that is why they turned the planet upside down, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
In some ways, but it's also profit, human beings trying to profit-
- SASadhguru
No. People want pro-
- JRJoe Rogan
... so they're doing things that aren't necessarily sustainable.
- SASadhguru
People want profit because that is the only way they can be well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
Those who are making losses, are they well?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, yeah.
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Sort of. Uh, but a lot of them, they're, they're already well. They're, they're greedy. They, they've gotten past the point of being well-
- SASadhguru
See, that is, that is... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and now they've gotten connected to the idea of accumulating vast sums of money.
- SASadhguru
No. That is being judgmental, calling somebody greedy, because, uh... See, uh, if I have one meal a day, which is my normal, I think I'm doing fine. If somebody else has one meal a day, he thinks he's very poor, he wants two. The guy who's having two thinks he's poor because somebody else is having (laughs) three. One who has a little home, he thinks he's poor because somebody has a big home, like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
So, what is greed and what is not greed? I would like to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I'll tell you what greed is. If you make choices where you know that the thing that you're doing, whether you're distributing a product or whether you're causing an action that is going to be detrimental to human beings, but you cover up the data to hide the fact that it's gonna be detrimental because you want to maximize your profit, and you don't care about the negative impact it has on people 'cause you're only thinking about money, and you're already substantially wealthy. That, by definition, is being greedy, right?
- SASadhguru
Oh. See, by definition, it's like this. Somebody is dreaming of a million dollars. He thinks that is the ultimate goal in his life.... but a guy who has a million is wanting to be a billionaire.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
One who is a billionaire, he looks at somebody who has hundred billion dollars, he thinks at least that much he must have.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
So, I'm saying instead of being judgmental about this, human wellbeing is sought from outside, that is the whole problem. See, human experience essentially happens from within. Whether it's your joy or misery, comes from within you, isn't it? Maybe somebody or something can stimulate it from outside, but still it happens within you. Joy and misery happens from within you, pain and pleasure happens from within you, agony and ecstasy happens from within you. Every human experience happens from within you. But in pursuit of happiness, we're turning the world upside down. Because this is the case of a, you know, there was an old potato farmer. One day he wanted to eat apples, so he went to an apple tree. But by habit, he started digging for the apples, till the tree came down on him, because he's a potato farmer. So right now, (laughs) human beings have become like this. They have gotten used to this, that they think by getting this, by getting that, by having one more thing and one more thing, they're going to be happy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
But human experience happens from within. If you take charge of your interiority, being peaceful and happy is a natural consequence of that. But for convenience and comfort, we do things outside. To create impact, we do things outside. So, this experience of if human beings were naturally joyful by their own nature, they would only do what is needed, nothing more, nothing less. But right now, they're in pursuit of happiness. You can't stop them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, they are in pursuit of happiness, but they're also, again, in pursuit of profit, because it's a number-based system, so it becomes like a game, and you get connected to corporations. When you're in a corporation, there's a diffusion of responsibility, because you don't think about your own involvement and what the corporation is doing, you think about your role, what you do as a job, and then you try to maximize profit. And it's a game that people get wrapped up in.
- SASadhguru
Yeah, but that is, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Doesn't make them happy. You're absolutely correct.
- SASadhguru
No, no, it's in pursuit of happiness, but.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's in pursuit of success.
- SASadhguru
See, uh, most human beings cannot be happy if they're not successful, isn't it?
- 41:56 – 58:26
Response vs reaction: ending inner slavery and building conscious control
- SASadhguru
See, right now, the simple question is, what happens in your mind, your emotion, your chemistry, your energies must be your way, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
It, well, is yours, yes. It is yours.
- SASadhguru
It is yours, so it must be your way. But it's not happening your way right now because it's in a compulsive reactive state.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- SASadhguru
So, see, anybody can cause anything within you. So, if I decide what clothes you must wear, what food you must eat, what you should do every day, you will call this slavery, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.... or the government.
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- NANarrator
Don't go there. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- SASadhguru
So, uh, right now, someone else, something else can decide what happens within you. Isn't this the most horrible form of slavery, that someone can decide whether you're happy or unhappy?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's not good.
- SASadhguru
That's not good.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's not the best path.
- SASadhguru
So, the problem is just this – an intelligence which needs to be conscious is unfortunately unconscious and compulsive. So, the only problem that you have is compulsive reaction to life around you. What is needed is a conscious response to life. So, this simple thing, people have not handled from their childhood.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. So-
- SASadhguru
So, when you don't handle this one thing, everything will be wrong, everything will be accidental. Your success and failure, both are accidental.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, what do you say to someone, maybe they're 30 years old and they've had this life of mistakes and regret and maybe alcoholism or gambling or some other problems, but they wanna be conscious, they want to be blissful, they want to be enlightened, they wanna be a, a happy person filled with love. What path do they take? What, what steps do they take to correct th- the-
- SASadhguru
See, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
... the journey they're on?
- SASadhguru
Why is... why is it, though human beings are not the strongest creatures on the planet compared to other species, why is it that human beings are dominating this world? Simply because of our ability to use tools, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
And our intellect, our ability-
- SASadhguru
No, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to manipulate our environment-
- SASadhguru
Yes, but even then-
- JRJoe Rogan
... through innovation.
- SASadhguru
... if we didn't have knowledge of using tools-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
... uh, w- the buffaloes would have mowed us down, all right (laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
So, your intellect, they don't care. It's your ability to use tools. You made an arrow, you made a gun.
- 58:26 – 59:53
Yoga redefined: union, geometry, sensory boundaries, and the four paths
- SASadhguru
So, the word yoga, in United States, it scares me-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
... because, uh, here, yoga means you must look like a leftover noodle twisted out like this, like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SASadhguru
The word yoga means union.
- JRJoe Rogan
Union.
- SASadhguru
Union means... Right now, we were talking about the soil.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
As you sit here, you are just an outcrop of soil. You may not realize this because you're sitting on a chair, you're wearing shoes, and because you can prance around. But if you were made like a tree, you would clearly understand you are part of the soil, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
Or most people will understand when you bury them, then they know they are part of the soil. Otherwise, they just don't know that they are part of the soil. They think they came from somewhere. A lot of people started talking, I'm from some other planet. (laughs) This talk is also-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
... going on. But essentially, you are part of this, but you're not experiencing it that way. This is not only true with soil, this is true with the entire creation, with the cosmos itself. Today, modern science has come to this, that as you sit here, every subatomic particle in your body is actually in communication with everything else. Is this an image of cosmos that you have?
- JRJoe Rogan
Sort of.
- SASadhguru
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just random stars-
- SASadhguru
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and occasionally, you'll see a shooting star.
- SASadhguru
So, uh, it is... This is a part of everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- 59:53 – 1:49:29
Sadhguru’s origin story: early skepticism, staring at existence, and the well-yoga turning point
- SASadhguru
If you don't go... want to go that far, at least this is a part of the planet. There's no question about that. That's very clear, but such an experience is not there. If... Can I tell you my... how this happened to me?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SASadhguru
So, when I was, uh, four or five y- years of age, I suddenly realized I don't know anything. I don't know anything means I don't know anything at all. If, uh, I look at a glass of water, I don't know what this is. I know I can drink it, I know in how many ways I can use it, but I don't know what it is. Even today, with so much scientific exploration, we still do not know one atom in its entirety. We know how to use it, we know how to break it, we know how to fuse it, we know how to make a bomb out of it, but we don't know what it is.Even today, we don't know what it is.
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
So if I found a leaf, I'm just staring at it for five, six hours at a stretch. If I sit up in the bed, I'm just staring at the darkness for the whole night. My dear father, being a physician, started thinking I need some psychiatric evaluation. He started saying, "This boy is staring at something all the time."
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- SASadhguru
"It looks like he's lost it." (laughs)
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
My problem is, I'm looking at this, I still don't know what this is, I'm not able to shift my attention to anything else. In this condition, they sent me to school. My mother said, "Don't look here and there, pay attention to the teacher." So I went and paid attention to the teacher, the kind of attention (laughs) they would have never received in their entire life. I'm paying absolute attention to the teacher. Initially, I kind of understood what they were trying to say, but after some time I realized that they're just making noises, I'm making up the meanings in my mind.
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
Even now it is so, isn't it? Language is a conspiracy between two people. The moment I talk another language, you, I'm just making sounds as far as you're concerned. So when I just heard they're just making sounds, I'm the one who's making up the meanings, I stopped making meanings. Hour after hour, teacher after teacher, they come and make noises and noises and noises and go. It became so amusing to me, a big smile spread on my face. They were not amused at all. (laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- SASadhguru
So...
- NANarrator
You were five when this was happening?
- SASadhguru
Yeah. I, uh, they sent me to school when I was three and a half.
- NANarrator
Did this, uh, accelerate over time? Did it start off slowly and, and become...
- SASadhguru
Yes. Uh, the qu- the thing is, I don't know one thing from the other. I look at the sky, tremendous things. I look at a tree, I see every leaf and it drives me crazy. I can't figure out where this is coming from, what's happening. Endless amount of things. If I look at a pebble, I'll keep on looking at it for hours because I don't know what it is.
- NANarrator
Hmm.
- SASadhguru
Because there is so much to it. If you take an atom, you can spend a lifetime looking at it, still not knowing what it is.
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- SASadhguru
That's the nature of the creation, all right? It's that complex. So my schooling went on like this and, uh, (laughs) I slowly started going there only when it was absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I had my own excursions going. So about, uh, 11, 12 years ago, this school where I studied over 50 years ago, they come to me and say, "Sadhguru, you must come. It is our 125th anniversary of the school. You must come and speak." I said, "See, why me?" Because I was not just a not good student, I was not even a student. I was barely there. "Why, why are you asking me to come? I'm not a good example for any of your students." They said, "No, our school has produced ministers, our school has produced cricketing stars, sports stars, film stars. You are the only mystic, so you must come." (laughs) So I went. I went and stood up to speak in the same quadrangle, the impressive buildings around me, and I looked at this classroom and I suddenly remembered, and I narrated this to them. See, I was around 12 years of age and, uh, one teacher came and those days, because I don't know anything, what's there to talk?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
For days on end, I don't utter a word. I just go to the sports f- field. I play intensely any game that is there, uh, and classroom, home, I don't say a thing because I don't know anything. (laughs) So what is there to say? So this teacher is asking me some question. I'm looking at him. I know his past, present and future sitting there, but I don't know what he's talking about. Initially, I hear the words. After some time, I'm just seeing him like a blob of energy, like that. And I know that guy through and through, but I don't know what he's talking. About 35, 40 minutes he tried to get an answer from me. I didn't say nothing. So he came, held me by the shoulder, shook me violently like this and said, "You must be either the divine or the devil. I think you are the later." See, till then my problem was I didn't know what is this, what is that, what is that, what is that, but it was clear this is me. Suddenly this guy confused me about this also. I looked at myself, "What is this? Is this divine, devil? What the hell is this?" This question had never come to me till I was 12. (laughs) I had a question about everything in the universe, but this was clear, this was me. Suddenly this guy confused me about this also. Then I tried to stare at myself, it didn't work. I started closing my eyes, and initially it started with minutes, it went into hours, it went into days. Sometimes I just closed my eyes and sat for days on end. This changed the whole experience of my life. When I was 25, I just burst into an experience where suddenly every cell in my body was dripping ecstasy like that.
- NANarrator
Suddenly?
- SASadhguru
Yeah. I was sitting on a rock and, uh, just I burst out like this. For the first time in my life, adult life, tears were coming. Tears and me were impossible. I lived like that. So, uh, I was just wondering what's happening when I, I thought it's 10, 15 minutes. When I came out, it was four and a half hours. My shirt was wet with tears. Thought, "What's happening to me? Am I going off the rocker or something?" That's the only thing my skeptical mind could tell me because I was a super skeptic about everything in the universe. (laughs) I had a question about everything, about the family structure, about the soc- society, about religion, about politics, about economics, about everything.
- NANarrator
So what do you think was happening?
- SASadhguru
I'll tell you. Then I talked to my closest friends, "Hey, something is happening to me. I'm just blissed out. You know, if I just talk to them, tears are coming to me." They said, "What's happening to you, man? What did you drink? What did you pop?" This is a question.
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- SASadhguru
Then I knew there was no context to my experience. So I spent... started spending more and more time by myself, and I realized...If I just take my hands off my mind completely, then I see that every cell in my body just bursts out with blissfulness. Then I establish this properly within myself how to do that, then I sat down and made a plan. At that time, the world's population was 5.6 billion people. I made a plan. In two and a half years time, I will ho- make the whole world ecstatic. Here I am 40 years later. (laughs) It took me time to realize people are so deeply invested in their miseries that even if you offer them the best thing, they will go round and round and round around that, not getting the point, because they're too deeply invested in something. They don't realize as you sit here and through your misery or joy, life is slipping away. Every heartbeat is life going away, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
Episode duration: 2:50:21
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Transcript of episode _cPD7l1LEDA
