Joe Rogan Experience #1800 - Gavin de Becker

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. GBGavin de Becker0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Hello, Gavin.

   4. GBGavin de Becker0:13

      Hey.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Pleasure to meet you in person, in the flesh.

   6. GBGavin de Becker0:16

      You too. Uh, we obviously have a lot of friends in common, and I'm glad to be here.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      I'm glad to have you here. And, uh, I'm glad to talk about, uh, we have a lot of shared interests, but, uh, this Survival Signals That Protect Us From Violence.

   8. GBGavin de Becker0:29

      Mm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      Now, this is, uh... I- I've always wanted to talk to you because you are a truly an expert on preparedness and cautionary tactics in, in, w- what to do and not to do, like in terms of security and how to protect people. And how did, what is your background like? How did you get started in all this?

   10. GBGavin de Becker0:50

       Uh, bad childhood, violent childhood is the way I started. Um, when I was, uh, 10 years old, my mother shot my stepfather in front of me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Oh, Jesus Christ.

   12. GBGavin de Becker1:00

       And that was one of many-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       (laughs)

   14. GBGavin de Becker1:01

       ... sort of gun incidents, uh, in our family. And so I grew-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Was your stepfather violent or something?

   16. GBGavin de Becker1:07

       No, he wasn't. Uh,, uh, my mother was. And, um-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Wow, that's unusual, right?

   18. GBGavin de Becker1:12

       Uh, it is. It's the, it is the more unusual of the two, you know, the two genders. Certainly men are more violent more often throughout history. Uh, so I had that experience but, uh, and a whole bunch of others. Uh, my mother was a heroin addict. She committed suicide when I was, uh, 16. And so I saw a lot of stuff. I saw a lot of criminality, I saw a lot of violence. And I guess I developed kind of like a, uh, an ambassador between the two worlds. I spoke both languages.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Hmm.

   20. GBGavin de Becker1:39

       You know, if I had a few other disadvantages, there's no way I would have, uh, you know, succeeded in life. I would have died young. Like, if I'd been a Black kid with the same circumstance, I'd have been in big trouble.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Hmm.

   22. GBGavin de Becker1:49

       And, uh, so that, uh, that life brought me to a fascination with... When John Kennedy was killed, I was 10, and, uh, I was home from school, and it just absolutely captivated and fascinated me, not so much the issue of who killed him or the conspiratorial sides of these things, which, (laughs) which are very real, not so much that, but the actual physics of how you prevent assassination. And that interest stayed with me throughout my life, and I eventually... I've had a, an odd life. So as, as I tell you this story, uh, you'll, you'll be ready for it to be unusual. But by the time I was, uh, 19, I had already read and devoured everything I could on this subject, which was pretty limited. Most of the stuff on anti-assassination strategies I wrote later in life, but there wasn't a lot to read at the time. And at 19, I got a job w- working for Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, and they were the most, uh, famous people in the world, maybe not known to everybody today, but she was a big movie star and he was a big movie star. And, uh, at that time, there was really only, uh, Jackie Onassis and, uh, Elizabeth Taylor and the Queen of England. Those were the giant media figures. Now we've got-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       Oh yeah.

   24. GBGavin de Becker3:02

       ... hundreds of media figures. Uh, and Marilyn Monroe, who had died already. And I worked for them starting as a kind of flunky. Do you know the word?

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       Mm-hmm.

   26. GBGavin de Becker3:11

       A gopher.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       Yeah.

   28. GBGavin de Becker3:12

       And then, uh, a- a- and through the course of everybody above me being fired, I ended up being what's called Traveling Chief of Staff. And, uh, uh, I traveled with them around the world. I got to work with protectors and intelligence agencies in South Africa and in Israel and in Mexico and all over Europe, and I learned a lot, and I observed everything. And when I was done, I was 21, and I wrote a, uh, an article about public figure protection in the private sector for, uh, a law enforcement journal. And everybody assumed I was a 55-year-old ex-FBI agent, but I was 21 years old. And so I used to get asked to come and give speeches, and when I would arrive, they would look around, you know, "Is your dad with you?" You know, they'd look around, and I-

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       (laughs)

   30. GBGavin de Becker3:56

       ... had a mustache. I used to darken it, because you could see through it.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm. That's- …

   1. GBGavin de Becker15:00

      you know, and, and assert yourself. Years ago, you know, the Beatles had a line that, uh, uh, the whole world went crazy and used the four of them to do it, and that they were the only four people in the world who didn't experience the Beatles.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      Mm. That's-

   3. GBGavin de Becker15:14

      And so ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      Jamie had a very similar s-

   5. GBGavin de Becker15:16

      I remember ...

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      ... statement the other day.

   7. GIGuest (third person in studio, brief interjection)15:18

      I, I've heard that before, but yeah, just-

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      (coughs)

   9. GIGuest (third person in studio, brief interjection)15:19

      ... thought of it in the same way.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       Oh, about the Beatles?

   11. GIGuest (third person in studio, brief interjection)15:21

       Well, like, me and him experience the world without-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:25

       Without the JRE.

   13. GIGuest (third person in studio, brief interjection)15:26

       ... dealing with this show, kinda.

   14. GBGavin de Becker15:27

       That's right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Like, we don't, you know-

   16. GBGavin de Becker15:28

       That's right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       Like, 'cause we're weirded out, because we were so insulated, like the show is so small in terms of, like, the amount of people that work on it. It's just me and Jamie. So ...

   18. GBGavin de Becker15:39

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       Me and Jamie, and whoever the guest is, communicate, we have fun. It's just, like, a bunch of people ta- you know, three of us talking, and it reaches millions of people.

   20. GBGavin de Becker15:51

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       And that escapes us in this moment. So, the, all the people that are listening, that are listening right now, that are, uh, driving in their car, and at the gym, and wherever you listen to the show, or watch the show, th- these people experience the show. We are a part of the show. So, for us, it's just life.

   22. GBGavin de Becker16:09

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       So, all the controversy behind it, they can bring it into work, and go, "Did you hear about this guy that's on the JRE that said this and that?" And like, "Oh, I heard that's bullshit." Or, "Oh, I, oh, I know about that." And then these conversations break out, and all the controversy breaks out, and we're blissfully immune to it.

   24. GBGavin de Becker16:25

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:26

       But the world has changed so much for us, because when we go out, then we experience it. Then we experience all these conversations, and all the controversy, and all the people, and all the attention. It's just strange.

   26. GBGavin de Becker16:39

       Yeah, I think as, uh, uh, I mentioned physiological, because we're not physiologically prepared for it, right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       Yeah.

   28. GBGavin de Becker16:44

       When you meet somebody, you don't have a place in your organism to put, "They already have a full opinion of me." It's a little bit like racism or discrimination, uh, or a police officer's experience, right? A police officer pulls you over, and everybody lies to him.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

   30. GBGavin de Becker17:00

       Everybody treats him different. Everybody's real, real nice, or everybody's got a, a story to tell. And so they're not engaging with the human being, they're engaging with the uniform.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Wow. …

   1. GBGavin de Becker30:00

      John Lennon, uh, was assassinated. And the Lennon's had also hired me to do work for them if they went on tour. And they were deciding whether to go on tour based on the success of a, of a, his last record album called Double Fantasy. And they decided, uh, not to go on tour. I never met them at that time. Uh, uh, uh, I did, uh, meet her later. But, uh, so I went up to the, uh, to New York, uh, and we had this, uh, a bunch of meetings after he was assassinated. Uh, sad memories. And interestingly, I learned later that I was at Blair House, uh, I was now working for Reagan, was now working for President-elect Reagan-... uh, as director of Special Services Group. And I was at Blair House in the morning, where the president-elect was staying, and then I flew to New York for this meeting after John Lennon was killed. And I let, later learned that John Hinckley made the same trip the same day, and flew back the same, on the same trip the same day. He also went and stood outside the Dakota building, where John Lennon was killed, in getting up his courage to eventually shoot, uh, President Reagan. And, and he shot him-

   2. JRJoe Rogan31:09

      Wow.

   3. GBGavin de Becker31:09

      ... a few months later. So then Reagan became president, and he was the oldest president at that time. Not anymore. But he was the oldest president at that time, and he appointed me as the youngest appointee ever at Department of Justice, on the President's Advisory Board. So I'm kinda giving you the, the process of how this, how this particular life happened. And, um, I remember, you know, being on that advisory board, and there was the Supreme Court justice, uh, chief justice from Arizona was on the board with me, and a Supreme Court justice from California, and the sheriff of San Diego County, and this kid. You know, and we're sitting at the table at our first meeting, and I, as an icebreaker, I said, uh, "Well, has anybody here ever been arrested?" Knowing that, of course, none of these people would have been arrested. And every single one of them had a story about being arrested. We went around the table. I had mine. They had theirs. You know, it would be, "I was standing in line with my, you know, 20-year-old son, and the guy behind me said, 'Such, such and such,' and my son took a swing at him, and I took a swing at him, and we all went to jail." Or it would be, "I was in college, and my girlfriend called the police because I took the record collection, and I got arrested." Every single one of them, Supreme Court justices, chiefs of police, uh, head of the Pennsylvania Crime Commission, all of them had a story of being arrested. And my asking that question was an icebreaker that, uh, uh, you know, that made our relationship work. Suddenly, this 26-year-old kid in the room who doesn't know shit about shit was actually kind of interesting. (laughs) And, uh, so, uh, that led to some, uh, big research projects that I got done. Uh, uh, the biggest one being on, uh, assessment of threats to public figures, and, uh, that I worked on for five years, and that was published and became a big deal, again, in law enforcement, and, uh, led to all kinds of things. I mean, and then I got appointed to something by, by George Bush also, not the younger but the older George Bush.

   4. JRJoe Rogan33:02

      So it essentially started out as almost like a word of mouth.

   5. GBGavin de Becker33:05

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan33:05

      And then you just start working for people, your reputation grows-

   7. GBGavin de Becker33:08

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan33:08

      ... and then you do more and more research to get more and more involved in it.

   9. GBGavin de Becker33:12

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan33:12

       Did you also find that there was a lack of understanding of what was necessary to protect people? That, like, the, there was... You know, when you're talking about your beginner's mindset-

   11. GBGavin de Becker33:22

       Hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan33:22

       ... were there people that were doing it incorrectly? And, like, what, what flaws did you find?

   13. GBGavin de Becker33:27

       I think the big... Yes is the answer. It's a, it's a good question, because it was a-

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:31

       (clears throat)

   15. GBGavin de Becker33:32

       You know, in those days, when John Lennon was assassinated, uh, there then came a few in a row, and they tend to group, uh, all kinds of, of, uh, uh, sort of media-age violence groups. So if you have a school shooting, you'll have another and another, uh, within a geographical area. Right now, by the way, at the present moment in the United States, we're having multiple victim shootings almost every day. So something that, you know, used to happen every few months and be a giant story is now happening all the time, but we'll cover that, uh, maybe later. But on your question, I think the biggest mistake that people were making in public figure protection was the belief that threats, a direct death threat, "I'm gonna kill you," was the most important communication that could be assessed in advance, and that was simply not true. What I learned through research and then later wrote about is that of every public figure attack you've ever heard of, of everyone you've ever known where a public figure was killed, not any of them were threatened directly by that, by the person who killed them in advance.

   16. JRJoe Rogan34:35

       Really?

   17. GBGavin de Becker34:36

       So the... And likewise, none of the people who made a direct threat to a public figure later shot that public figure. So when I started, everybody was very, uh, you know, responsive to a direct threat. "Oh, it's a death threat. He says he's gonna kill me." And, uh, and I learned that other kinds of communications were far more indicative of who will show up. And I learned that the, the art, and still today, the art and craft of what I do and what my company does, is try to avoid unplanned encounters, unwanted encounters. Because if you avoid the, all the unwanted encounters, you're also avoiding the dangerous ones. And you can be sure that nobody who travels 1,000 miles to get a meeting with you or waits outside your house if you're a famous person is gonna hand you a check for a million dollars. That's not (laughs) what they're coming for. It's always something for them, and it's always something, uh, inappropriate, because millions of people write fan letters or emails or are, uh, admirers of a recording artist or a, or a politician or whatever, but very few, statistically speaking, make, uh, what we call targeted travel. You know, get, figure out where somebody lives or where they work and, and travels to see them. So my approach was different from others, which was to, uh, try to detect as early as possible those individuals who might pursue encounters. And from that to where we are now, we now have the largest library in the world of threat material directed to public figures. I think it's about 600,000 pieces of communication. People who send blood, people who send bullets, people who send body parts.

   18. JRJoe Rogan36:06

       They send blood?

   19. GBGavin de Becker36:07

       Oh yeah, we've-

   20. JRJoe Rogan36:07

       Body parts?

   21. GBGavin de Becker36:08

       Yeah, we've had everything.

   22. JRJoe Rogan36:09

       Like what kind of body parts?

   23. GBGavin de Becker36:10

       We've had a finger. Uh, we've had-

   24. JRJoe Rogan36:12

       Their own finger or somebody else's?

   25. GBGavin de Becker36:14

       Uh, their own. We've had-

   26. JRJoe Rogan36:15

       (laughs)

   27. GBGavin de Becker36:15

       ... explosives. Uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan36:17

       Ooh.

   29. GBGavin de Becker36:17

       We've had facsimile bombs, uh, uh, blood, hair-

   30. JRJoe Rogan36:21

       So someone cut-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   So Pegasus sends a…

   1. GBGavin de Becker45:00

      then notified, uh, eight times by the FBI about the, what information they had learned. And then we began to do, uh, to do, uh, you know, work on the phone itself. And you learn about it in those ways, which is very difficult, by the way. Because Pegasus 2, I feel like I'm giving a commercial for Pegasus 2, but I, I, uh, most people can't really, can't buy it anyway. But Pegasus 2 is not sitting in an armchair waiting for you to arrive, "Hey, I'm over here." It is extremely well hidden, uh, right down at the very core levels of a, uh, of a phone or, uh, or an iPad. And, uh, but there are strategies for, uh, for finding it, and they're challenging and they're evolving all the time. There are, you know, whole organizations like, uh, Citizen Lab and a, and a really great expert, uh, Anthony Ferrante who used to work for Obama at the White House on this kind of stuff. He's now in, in private practice. Uh, they've had a lot of success. They even have found, uh, uh, Pegasus 2 in the wild, meaning before there was a reason to be suspicious, they've identified it. And, uh, it's a tricky game because it, it, it... Let's say you were targeted y- by the Mexican government, which happened a lot to people, and, uh, you, you have it on your phone and you think you are being monitored in some way, so you get rid of your phone. You turn it off, you put it in the top drawer. Well, Pegasus will say, "Hey, this activity has just stopped. Self-delete." It'll self-destruct. So now you, you ev- you don't even have any evidence that it ever happened, even if you could get an FBI involved in it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan46:35

      So Pegasus sends a signal to the person that's using the spyware to tell you that that phone is not active any longer?

   3. GBGavin de Becker46:42

      Well, they know. They, they s- they see immediately, "Hey, Joe isn't texting his friends anymore." So they know that right away.

   4. JRJoe Rogan46:48

      So they execute it-

   5. GBGavin de Becker46:50

      But the s-

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:50

      ... independently?

   7. GBGavin de Becker46:50

      Nope. Nope. It can happen internally. Because what happens, remember, when it's, when it's turned off or the battery's taken out or a wide variety of things can happen that, uh, you know, with a, quote, uh, "suspect phone," um, it will self-destruct on its own, uh, after a few days of no contact. That's one of the things they market. I got all their marketing material. Uh, and at the time, you know, when we were really doing this investigation, we were getting a lot of content from around the world. It is, uh, it's sold by a company called NSO, which is in Israel, based in Israel. And, uh, it's a very dark game all over the world, uh, involving governments and other powerful people. And, uh, you know, phone... L- most people say, "Well, what do I care? Nobody wants to get into my phone." And they're right. Uh, but if you are a person who is subject to, uh, to the interest of government anywhere in the world, uh, it's very hard to have privacy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan47:43

      So if you don't get a message through WhatsApp, what are the other vulnerabilities? Like, could you get a message through Twitter? Can you get a message through-

   9. GBGavin de Becker47:50

      Yes, you could get a regular-

   10. JRJoe Rogan47:52

       ... Instagram?

   11. GBGavin de Becker47:52

       You could get a regular text.

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:53

       A regular text?

   13. GBGavin de Becker47:54

       Yeah. Pegasus 1, which did require that the user click on something, but Pegasus 2 is a no-click exploit. Nothing has to happen.

   14. JRJoe Rogan48:03

       So someone can just send you a text? You don't even have to open it?

   15. GBGavin de Becker48:07

       Not even send... Less than that. What I'm-

   16. JRJoe Rogan48:09

       Less than that.

   17. GBGavin de Becker48:09

       ... saying is that the, that the high-end Pegasus system that's used by Saudi Arabia and other countries, all they need to do is have your phone number.

   18. JRJoe Rogan48:16

       That's it?

   19. GBGavin de Becker48:17

       Noth- nothing more.

   20. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       So they have your phone number, they have access to all your photographs, your messages, everything you send?

   21. GBGavin de Becker48:23

       Yep. Turn on your phone, there's a microphone right now in this room.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:26

       Wow.

   23. GBGavin de Becker48:26

       Turn on your phone, there's a camera right now. And even, it's so, it's so smart. Let's say it makes an audio, uh, recording of a phone call. And it doesn't download it right now. It waits until the phone is quiet and it's, you know, late night in the, in the target destination, like in your home, it's late night. And then it downloads it at night so that you don't even see a reduction in performance.... right? And then people who are sort of watching the, the cost don't see spikes of all kinds of activity. In the case you talked about, uh, gigabytes of data was taken out of that phone.

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:58

       Gigabytes?

   25. GBGavin de Becker48:59

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan49:00

       How many gigabytes are on a phone?

   27. GBGavin de Becker49:02

       No idea. Don't know. Uh, so, so anyway, yeah, the, the, the short punchline on this is that there is no way to... There's a lot of products being sold that do the best they can, but, uh, depending on who wants you, there really is no way, uh... You know, if the Central Intelligence Agency wants to get into somebody's phone overseas, they can do it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan49:21

       Now, is there a difference between operating systems? Like, is there more of a vulnerability to Android than there is to iPhone?

   29. GBGavin de Becker49:28

       I hear... Again, not an expert, but I hear that there's more vulnerability to, uh, to iPhone, but that might be because they are the ones that are targeted most often and that thousands of people are working on all the time-

   30. JRJoe Rogan49:40

       Yeah, that was my question.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:14:39

   (laughs) …

   1. GBGavin de Becker1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      (laughs)

   3. GBGavin de Becker1:00:00

      And, and, uh, that's right. But i- interesting, why I, why I wanted to share that with you is that here we are on, you know, the Joe Rogan Experience, which has had its share of, of, uh, shit flung at it for literally just having conversations, nothing, nothing more going on in here, no collection of, of weapons or plans to overthrow the government. And I always like to remind people that these things are not new, they're human nature, meaning governments have done this always. And, uh, and every word I just read in that thing, it's amazing. He wanted to ban coffee houses, and now people wanna ban end-to-end encryption or anything else that will, uh, allow for an actual open dialogue.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:42

      Well, there's people that are openly talking about amending the First Amendment-

   5. GBGavin de Becker1:00:45

      Hm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

      ... changing it-

   7. GBGavin de Becker1:00:47

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

      ... and saying maybe we shouldn't have so much free speech. Maybe free speech is a problem, which is-

   9. GBGavin de Becker1:00:52

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       ... crazy. It's crazy that there's so many people that have a voice and have a, a say in matters and they're so shortsighted that that's one of the things that they would actually say.

   11. GBGavin de Becker1:01:03

       Yeah. I, I think it is, uh... But it has existed before, and I think it's important to remember that if you look at human history, it's almost all tyranny. And the United States and Western Europe is a tiny sliver of the pie, it's a tiny period in human history in which we grew up, um, uh, with freedom of speech, and, uh, and we grew up with these protections from the court and from, uh, you know, the Constitution. But it's not a, it's, it's not some permanent state of affairs. It definitely won't last forever. And I, I say to people who wanna change, uh, any amendment, w- wanna make an amendment to the amendments, eh, eh, you know, in the Constitution, you almost don't have to, because major media companies have done it anyway. Right? Major media companies, uh, New York Times, CNN, etc., etc. Something your listeners might not know about called, uh, the Trusted News Initiative that's run by BBC, which is a whole collection of major media companies from all over the world who decide together on how to handle certain stories. And that's how you get, uh, you know, 5,000 headlines that say, uh, "Ivermectin is a, is a horse paste." Uh, Ivermectin is a, uh, an animal drug in the same way that, uh, antibiotics are an animal drug, meaning we have a shared biology with other animals and, uh, uh, a- and it can be given to all kinds of, of beings, but of course it's a people drug. Won the Nobel Prize as a people drug. Uh, given billions of times as a people drug. But when you looked at what happened with you, you had a monolithic approach in media, where everybody said the same thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

       Yeah.

   13. GBGavin de Becker1:02:41

       Horse paste. Horse paste. And that's because of, uh, a monolithic approach in corporate media right now.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:47

       And so who's at the helm of that?

   15. GBGavin de Becker1:02:49

       Well, the, the BBC Trusted News Initiative is certainly the most organized version that we're aware of, but I think in any of these things like what we're experiencing for the last two years, people wanna find a single villain. You know, it's Klaus Schwab, it's Bill Gates, it's pharma companies, whatever it may be, because it's a simpler narrative. And, and unfortunately it's not a simple narrative. What happens is this. Many, many people have competing incentives to exploit a new thing. So for example, when 9/11 happened, and, uh, you know, airplanes flown into buildings, there came up companies that reinforced the concrete on government buildings, as if they could stop a fucking airliner. Ridiculous. But the government spent millions of dollars on it, on reinforcing windows and reinforcing, you know, the outsides of buildings. My point being that for, in our current world, if you used to make perfume, now you make hand sanitizer. If you used to make bumper stickers, now you make stickers that say, "Stand six feet apart," that are on the, you know, the floor of the supermarket. Uh, if you used to make, uh, uh, you know, fabric, uh, scarves, now you make masks. And so everybody is inclined by the momentum of, uh, of commerce to jump onto anything that has everyone's attention.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:04:07

       Right.

   17. GBGavin de Becker1:04:07

       In, in attention there is money to be made, in the area of attention. So, when governments of the world say, uh, y- you know, "There's a virus, and i- if you're over 60, it'll kill you," that was the first, you know, that was the original information. And when that gets etched on the tablet, it's very hard to change people's minds after that, even though we learned that it was far more, uh, you know, you were far more vulnerable if you were older, if you were frail, if you were... I mean, s- look at, look at Canada. 70% of the people who died in Canada whose deaths are attributed to COVID were nursing home residents, meaning w- what do you go to a nursing home for, by the way?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:04:46

       You're dying.

   19. GBGavin de Becker1:04:46

       That's it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:04:47

       Yeah.

   21. GBGavin de Becker1:04:47

       I- in Los Angeles County, the average stay in a, in a nursing home, uh, uh, a, uh, a Medicare nursing home is six months. Right?

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:56

       You have six months to live.

   23. GBGavin de Becker1:04:58

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:58

       Yeah.

   25. GBGavin de Becker1:04:58

       So, so when we learned, I- myself included, I heard about the pandemic and thought, "Oh, shit, over 60, you get it, you die." So, all kinds of, uh, cautions and care and concern. Then I got that first report that came out of Italy which showed that 94% of the people had 2.7 fatal comorbidities, meaning they already had other diseases that could kill them. I didn't. And they already were elderly. I wasn't. They were, uh, in many cases overweight, all variety of problems. And the point being that it was highly age stratified. It, it, it... This disease is highly age and health stratified. And so, uh, young people, you know, a, a kid in college, y- y- you don't have a challenge from this disease. Now, quickly, if, uh, if, uh, Dr. Fauci were in my pocket right now, he would be climbing up here to yell at me, "Oh, yeah? But we've got a lot of young people who, who are killed and di-" Uh, first of all, it's not a lot, relative to anything. And, uh, and secondly, w- you know, people get killed in car accidents. Life is a sexually transmitted, always fatal, communicable disease. That is what life is, right? It is a condition that is sexually transmitted, always fatal, and communicable. We, we cannot eliminate all risk, and government always pretends they can. After 9/11, the color codes. It's a, it's a-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:18

       Yeah.

   27. GBGavin de Becker1:06:18

       ... red day, it's a yellow day.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:19

       Right.

   29. GBGavin de Becker1:06:20

       The UK is using the color codes i- uh, in this pandemic and it looks like comedy when you see it. You know, this is a yellow day. And what, what do I do? Duck? Not breathe? Uh, you know, stay under the kitchen counter? What do I do with this information? And then you see how do people actually die. Overweight, heart disease, diabetes, etc., etc., etc., etc. And, uh, that was a little diatribe you just heard.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:41

       So this Trusted News Network, like, in the, in this, the instance of COVID and, uh, in my recovery in particular, they concentrated on one thing, and that one thing was ivermectin. And it was one of many things that I listed. I r- listed, uh, Z-Pak. I listed, uh, prednisone. I listed monoclonal antibodies, and I said also ivermectin. And I said IV vitamin drips and NAD as well I think.... but the, all they concentrated on was ivermectin. And then there was all these stories, like all over the world, about me taking horse dewormer.

Episode duration: 2:51:58