Joe Rogan Experience #1851 - Chris Williamson

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hi, Chris.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:13

      Hi, man. How are you?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      How are you doing?

   6. CWChris Williamson0:14

      Good, thank you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Very nice to meet you, man. I've really enjoyed your stuff online.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:17

      Thank you.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      You're a-

   10. CWChris Williamson0:17

       I appreciate that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:18

       ... you're a very good listener. You are one of the best listeners. You're really good at that. Is you're really good at knowing when to talk and when not to talk. That is a skill, and that, that is a, a rare sh- sign of social intelligence. So, I was looking forward to meeting you.

   12. CWChris Williamson0:32

       Thank you. I appreciate that, man.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       My pleasure.

   14. CWChris Williamson0:33

       You've been a big inspiration, so it's nice to hear that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Oh, thank you, thank you. Appreciate that too. We were talking about what, like, when someone's funny and when they're funny and not funny and why, and I don't know. (laughs) Like, I've met... 'Cause there's some people that I know that d- weren't funny for a long time and then they became funny. Like comics that were like, they're starting out and they just... Maybe they were kinda okay. May- I think maybe you have, if, if you have a spark, like a little ha-ha, just a spark, you could turn that into a flame. But if you don't have the spark, if there's no, there's nothing there, you're never funny, ever, you're fucked.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:05

       But that's different to training, like we were saying.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Yes, yes. We were talking-

   18. CWChris Williamson1:08

       You can be the skinniest or fattest guy or girl-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:11

       ... the right training program and some good macros, you're fixed.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       And you will definitely get stronger. You will definitely get fitter. Espi- particularly like cardiovascular. Cardiovascular, uh, fitness is 100% achievable. All you have to... As long as you don't have like some sort of a problem physically, some sort of an ailment, you could definitely get bette- better cardio.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:30

       Is it true about comics needing a messed up childhood or that's a performance enhancer, that they say the pain that they've gone through in the past is something that helps them to be funny when they grow up?

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       There's something there, there's something there. I think it's being ignored. I think when you're ignored as a child, uh, kids figure out a way to get attention and so they act out. And then in acting out, if you act out in a particular way, you get laughs and then you lean towards that. You know?

   24. CWChris Williamson1:58

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:58

       I didn't have a funny family. Like my family's not funny at all (laughs) . Like no one's funny. Like my mom's not funny, my dad's not, my step-dad's not funny. No one's funny. You know? It's just like, just... For me, it was, I guess, it was just, uh, having a weird childhood, moving around a lot, always having to make new friends and so just figured out what was funny about certain things.

   26. CWChris Williamson2:20

       And you ended up managing to get it right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:23

       Yeah, but again, it's fucking lucky, man. Either you're funny or not. Like I, I got into comedy because my friend Steve, who I'm still good friends with to this day, Steve Graham, told me, uh, I should do comedy, 'cause I would make him laugh. And I was like, "Dude, you, you are laughing 'cause you like me. Other people are just gonna think I'm an asshole."

   28. CWChris Williamson2:41

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Like this is not (laughs) this is not comedy, you know? But-

   30. CWChris Williamson2:44

       I feel like it is a skill. I feel like it's a skill that people can develop. But yeah, if you've got the wrong spark... I mean, everyone's seen that comedian that's trying-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      (smacks lips) a, a, a s- social safety net, like, there's... It's not that good, like, in America. I don't think a n- I think in t-... The worst-case scenario, it, it's, it's... (sighs) The worst, worst worry is that a social safety net encourages people to not be ambitious-

   2. CWChris Williamson15:21

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      ... and encourages people to sort... Like, that's what people were concerned with when it came to things like universal basic income, right? They were concerned that it was gonna alleviate people's ambition. And on the best-case scenario side, what I was... I was like looking at it with rose-colored glasses. I was like, "Maybe it'll encourage people to go out and do something they actually want to do for a living." And having their basic needs taken care of, like food and shelter, like, maybe that will give them whatever extra motivation they need to go out and do a thing that they really want to do, whether it's create music or become a painter or whatever the fuck it is.

   4. CWChris Williamson15:58

      Do you think that's the way that people are going to lean?

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:01

      (sighs) I think you have to have that in you, unfortunately.

   6. CWChris Williamson16:03

      Mm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:03

      I think there... I know people that are just not fucking ambitious. They have... They're just lazy. And if they didn't have any social safety net, maybe they would develop some discipline. But if there is a social safety net, they don't. And the thing that you were talking about earlier, like this, um... (smacks lips) The, there, there is a problem with generations that, that feel entitled. And they're given this a- There's this attitude, there's this s- sort of overwhelming idea that the government is responsible for you in a certain way, and if you're not doing well, the government has fucked you over. The government... It's your fault. And then people start looking to people that have a lot, like they start looking to billionaires. And they're like, "We need to tax them. We need to tax these billionaires." And, you know, like, there's people out there that are calling for a 90% tax of billionaires, which I always feel like is, at the very least, what they're trying to do... Some of 'em, for sure, are just putting on a show. They're just saying that because they want their constituents to go, "Yeah, they're fighting for us. They're fighting for the working class." Like (inhales) , are they? You know, I'm not sure they are. I think they're bullshitting. And I, I think that capitalism is a game, and whenever you're gonna have a game, (smacks lips) you're gonna have people that are like weekend players that go out there and put a little bit of effort into it and they're kind of okay at basketball, and then you're gonna have Michael Jordan. And you don't get a Michael Jordan without massive amounts of effort and time. And that's the same thing with capitalism. If it's a game, if we're all agreeing, like even if you're a waiter, right? You're waiting on tables, you do a good job, they give you tips. That's tips in America. We get tips for, for waiters when they do a good job.

   8. CWChris Williamson17:40

      Because they don't get paid, that's why.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:42

      Uh-huh.

   10. CWChris Williamson17:42

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Yeah, it's sneaky.

   12. CWChris Williamson17:43

       I had to adapt-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson17:44

       ... very, very quickly to that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:46

       Yeah, it's a sneaky thing. Oh, you're right, 'cause you're not used to giving tips.

   16. CWChris Williamson17:49

       Not a... Well-

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:49

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson17:49

       ... 10% maybe-ish.

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:51

       Right.

   20. CWChris Williamson17:51

       And I did that in a strip club in, uh, Austin, and the waitress turned the thing around and said, "Let's try this again." Slid it back-

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:58

       Whoa.

   22. CWChris Williamson17:58

       ... across the table to me and said

   23. NANarrator18:00

       (laughs)

   24. CWChris Williamson18:00

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       At a strip club.

   26. CWChris Williamson18:00

       Yeah (laughs) .

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:01

       Did you feel intimidated?

   28. CWChris Williamson18:02

       Uh...

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:03

       Like you were being, being bossed around?

   30. CWChris Williamson18:05

       It was kinda hot.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   You'd have to speak…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      see that. Well, why didn't they just do it where it's like that way, that way, that way, that way? Like, where both of them are turned, th- these, uh, upper right corner and, uh, lower left corner are turned sideways.

   2. CWChris Williamson30:10

      You'd have to speak to the designer. I'm not sure. So, anyway, he-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:12

      But how did ... I- I didn't see that. That's what's so crazy. Like, I looked at that, and I'm just looking at the flags as it ... in their entirety, but then I s- ... Now, I clearly see it.That's crazy. Yeah, that's a swastika.

   4. CWChris Williamson30:25

      So, he, he shares this, right?

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:27

      (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson30:27

      And, I mean, you've also got, you've also got, uh, news articles at the moment saying, uh, "Military veteran jailed or a- a- arrested for gay swastika."

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:36

      Oh my God.

   8. CWChris Williamson30:36

      Which is one of the (laughs) best headlines.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:38

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson30:38

       So anyway, they, the police arrive and they say, uh, or they, they contacted him and they said, um, "80 pound fine, and you have to go to a reeducation course."

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       Oh, a camp.

   12. CWChris Williamson30:47

       So he said-

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:49

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson30:49

       ... he said, "No, I don't wanna, I don't wanna do this." And they said, "Okay, well, we're gonna come and arrest you." So, he asked for a time when they were gonna come around, and he got Laurence, the guy that made it and also has a huge social media following online, got him to be there. So Laurence livestreamed it as it was happening, and as the police are there, he's livestreaming this thing, and there's a clip that's 30 seconds from the middle of it which has gone super, super viral online. It's had like three million plays over the weekend. And they ask the police officer why it is... That's the guy there that made it-

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       Right.

   16. CWChris Williamson31:16

       ... "Why am I being arrested?" And he said, "Well, obviously it's because your post has caused somebody social anxiety."

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       Social anxiety?

   18. CWChris Williamson31:23

       Yep.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       Wow.

   20. CWChris Williamson31:25

       'Cause we have these hate speech laws, non-crime hate incidents, I think they're logged as in the UK. And, yeah, they were, somebody-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:34

       Non-crime?

   22. CWChris Williamson31:35

       Non-crime hate incidents.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:35

       So, microaggression managed by bureaucracy.

   24. CWChris Williamson31:39

       Well, you remember that guy that got told, "We have to check your thinking," because he liked a post that was seen as problematic?

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       What was... Is that in the UK as well?

   26. CWChris Williamson31:46

       Yeah, correct. Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       Who was that? Who was the-

   28. CWChris Williamson31:47

       Somebody Miller. Uh, so it was the guy that was actually there. He was an ex-police officer, also a lawyer, understands the law very, very closely. He got arrested along with the Colin O'Brady guy. The only guy that didn't get arrested is the guy that made it, who was also happened to be there. The two people, one of them for obstructing arrest, 'cause he was saying, "You're not following this rule. Can you please show me your Section 35 of the whatever, whatever act? None of this is... W- you, you haven't reached the threshold for arrest and blah, blah, blah." So he got arrested for it as well (laughs) .

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       Wow.

   30. CWChris Williamson32:15

       And then the dudes that shared the post got arrested as well.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   What do you think…

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      with ideologies and with tribalism, because that's what people g- gravitate towards. They gravitate towards a, a group of people that they feel like they can fit into, and then they can adopt those patterns of thinking (coughing) and, and those thoughts. And instead of coming up with their own opinions, they form this sort of conglomeration of other people's opinions and then they fiercely defend them. And you see that a lot on Twitter, and you see that a lo- a lot of ideological capture on Twitter, and you see a lot of people. There's people that I, that I'm friends with and I, that I follow, that I, I go to their, their thing, and they're like, all day long they're just tweeting about politics and they're tweeting about the Democrats and defending the Democrats and attacking the Republicans. And it's really weird, it, 'cause it's some sort of a strange distraction, 'cause to a person, every one of those people that I'm talking about has a disappointing career. Every one of them. Every one of them is pretty fucking unsuccessful in their chosen craft.

   2. CWChris Williamson46:03

      What do you think that's, is that because they're spending too much time on Twitter or is it something that's deep seeded below that? Are they focusing too much on status games? Are they unable to prioritize what actually matters?

   3. JRJoe Rogan46:12

      I think when their life is not going well and their, their chosen career is not going well, they concentrate on other things to distract them instead of focusing on the very thing itself.

   4. CWChris Williamson46:23

      Mm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan46:24

      And they think that they're justified in doing that because those things are really important. It's really important to stop the G- the G-O-P. It's really important to do that. It's not so important that, you know, I sell out at the fucking Chuckle Hut this weekend. What's real- (laughs) what's really important-

   6. CWChris Williamson46:40

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan46:40

      It's not important that my jokes are good, it's not important that the audience comes and laughs and has a great time. No, what's really important is that I, I tweet bad things about Republicans and, and defend Kamala Harris.

   8. CWChris Williamson46:51

      There's kind of a compensatory control thing going on here, right? The fact that they, they feel like they don't have as much control over perhaps their main pursuit in their life-

   9. JRJoe Rogan46:58

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson46:59

       ... but they do have control over their Twitter.

   11. JRJoe Rogan47:01

       Sure. I mean, that's why Karens are almost always fat. They're like, they don't have control over their bodies, so they're yelling at other people. There's, there's something to that. There's something to like, the most complainy, bitchy people that are really shitty, that don't have a good-

   12. CWChris Williamson47:15

       They're never in shape.

   13. JRJoe Rogan47:15

       No. They're, they're not comfortable with their own skin and they're, they're... Generally speaking, they're not doing well. They're not doing well at the other aspects of their life. I bet their relationships are probably a mess. Their, their friendships are probably all fucked up. You know, it's n- they probably owe taxes. Th- they're a mess.

   14. CWChris Williamson47:33

       Why do you think it is that people are so concerned about politics at the moment?

   15. JRJoe Rogan47:37

       Well, Donald Trump broke a lot of people. He, he broke, he broke a lot of people's ability to objectively look at the other side as just having a, a different perspective on things. Instead of that, it's, it became, "You're evil." "We're good, you're evil." It, it, it got down to like, a really binary view of the way w- the world works. "You're either with us or you're against us." He was so... He was such a problem in that he's so confrontational and he, he causes so many arguments and he's, he attacks his enemies. Even while he was the president, he was doing this. So, it, it became this thing where it ramped up the resistance and ramped up aggression to the point where people like, ha- putting #Resistance, The Resistance in their Twitter posts about him. It's like, (sighs) I, I think people haven't, they, they haven't, uh, recovered from that. They haven't like, co- no one, no one has put forth any like, and especially no one that's progressive, has put forth any realistic-... Argument for why that's bad for you, why that's bad for your thinking, why that's bad for even the group that you support. You're encouraging the other side to attack you. You're encouraging this sort of divide that I think America is stricken with at the moment. And then, it's not to say that there's not negative things about the, the, the Republicans, and there most certainly are, but there's negative things about the Democrats too. And I think that aligning yourself with a particular party is always gonna be a problem, because some people feel like they can't talk about things that are not aligned with their party's values. Like, maybe they're a person who is very progressive, but they're also a free speech absolutist. And then they see people getting censored and they see, like, the Hunter Biden story getting censored by Twitter, and they see certain stories not making their way into the news because the actual results, the, the actual facts and statistics that points to this argument are problematic to their ideology. And so they either ignore them or they push against them or... You know, you, you run into these ideologically captured people, and the- it's very hard for people to break free because then you, you run the risk of being attacked by your own community.

   16. CWChris Williamson50:05

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan50:05

       And when, when you have this, like, very binary perspective on politics and social issues, whenever you deviate in any way, shape, or form, you run the risk of being attacked. Particularly right now, because again, people are so divided, and I really think this started... I mean, it always been, it's always been the case, but from 2016 on, it became much more aggressive.

   18. CWChris Williamson50:27

       In 2012, people stopped voting for the love of the side that they had and started voting for distaste of the other. So up until then, people that were Democrats were voting because they liked the Democrats. After that time, both Republicans and Democrats were basically doing a protest vote. How much do you hate the opposition versus how much do you love yourself?

   19. JRJoe Rogan50:45

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson50:46

       And it was more about, "I am not that than I am this." And it goes back to that fragile hatred of an outgroup, not mutual love of an ingroup thing from before.

   21. JRJoe Rogan50:54

       Right.

   22. CWChris Williamson50:54

       Right? You're constantly looking for, "Who can we shave off? Who can we get rid of?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan50:58

       (clears throat)

   24. CWChris Williamson50:58

       But I mean, why, why politics? 'Cause I, I can't remember a time, mostly 'cause I had my head up my ass, but I can't remember a time when the news wasn't talking about politics, but I know that there was one. You know, when it was other sorts of stories, but everything now seems to be so captured and any... Do you remember (laughs) ... Was it Nicki Minaj who became co-opted by the Republicans briefly when she was, like, vaccine skeptical a few years ago?

   25. JRJoe Rogan51:22

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson51:22

       Yeah, and it's like, anything, any opportunity to co-opt somebody in to become a political football that we can click about.

   27. JRJoe Rogan51:28

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson51:29

       It happened with you. Same thing with you as well.

   29. JRJoe Rogan51:31

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson51:31

       You know? I just wonder why everything is seen through the same frame of politics now. Whi- like, was it Trump? Was that the thing? It just-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:19

   Mm-hmm. Because you're going…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      use just because it's profitable. And then because of that and through that, people can abandon a lot of their aggressive tendencies and a lot of their ideas that are not suitable to a loving community.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:13

      Mm-hmm. Because you're going to align-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:14

      ... for once something which is good for society with something that is good for the company.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

      Yeah. And maybe these companies, in profiting off of these psychedelics, would start to invest in community centers and start to invest in rebuilding neighborhoods and rebuilding fucked up cities. And-

   6. CWChris Williamson1:00:32

      Why would they do that?

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

      They would do that because they're looking at their overall, uh, their overall image. If you're making-... insane amounts of money profiting off of psychedelics and you're using these psychedelics as well, you might feel, I would feel, that I had some sort of an obligation to enhance the community that was serving me.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:00:54

      Dude, if everybody in the company is on psychedelics, I don't, I, I don't know how much is going to get done.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson1:00:59

       I don't know if this is ever gonna make it to market.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       I know there's a lot of people that are using psychedelics in, in, um, in big tech and they're using them in, in microdosing and it's, uh, changing their perspectives. It's changing the way they interact with the market. They're, it's changing-

   12. CWChris Williamson1:01:18

       And their dog and the mirrors and everything. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       (laughs)

   14. NANarrator1:01:20

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       It depends upon dosage. Yeah. Yeah. Well, d- you know, to get back to what you were talking about, about i- i- embracing views, like, you know, being pro-Second Amendment but also being pro-choice.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:01:32

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       You know, like, that these things are supposed to ... You, you're supposed to not have that. You're supposed to be able to, uh, join a group and that group is, you know, you've got, "Oh, got all my, my ducks in a line here. What do I, what do I think about this? Oh, that." What do I think-

   18. CWChris Williamson1:01:47

       Let me consult the document.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       Yeah. What do I think about open borders? Oh, yeah, I'm for it, I think. I'm, I'm Liberal. Yeah. And then, then you look at this and you, you, you realize it, like, there's some things on this side that I don't agree with and there's some things on that side that I agree with. And then you realize, like, oh, wait a minute, I'm just a person. I'm a person with my own ideas on things and I'm not a Republican and I'm not a Democrat, I'm a human. And I resist these notions that I have to be classified in this very fucking clear and specific box.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:02:20

       The problem is, if I know one of your views and from it I can accurately predict everything else-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:24

       Right.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:02:25

       ... that you believe, you're not a serious thinker.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

       Right.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:02:27

       You've just adopted somebody else's ideology and you've plugged it in.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:02:31

       And I think this is one of the reasons why whenever I see people online, they always talk about the same stuff. You know, it, it's like an old leather pair of shoes, you can almost feel where it's going to go.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:42

       Mm-hmm.

   28. CWChris Williamson1:02:42

       You know what the opinion's going to be. Something news happened, the recession news about Wikipedia or whatever's happened, and you can tell what the take's going to be. There's ... You're never surprised.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:51

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson1:02:51

       That means that they're not a serious thinker.

Episode duration: 3:25:23