Joe Rogan Experience #1855 - Chris Best

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. CBChris Best0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      What's up, Chris? How are you?

   4. CBChris Best0:15

      Good.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      What's going on? (laughs) Have you done podcasts before?

   6. CBChris Best0:19

      Uh, nothing like this. I've done a few.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Yeah? Okay, cool. Um, so tell me... First of all, tell me, what was the inspiration to start Substack? Like, how did it, how did it come about?

   8. CBChris Best0:32

      I've always been an avid reader. Uh, my dad was an English teacher growing up. We had books around the house. And I've always thought that what you read matters. Like, it shapes who you are, it shapes how you think, it creates, like, who you are as a person. And so great writing matters a lot. Right? I'm a- s- I- in my other life I do software. Software's this magical thing where you can run- write a piece of code and it does something for a million people. If you write a great essay, a great book, a great thought, you can change who a million people are. And so great writing is this valuable thing. And when I took s- a sabbatical from a company that I'd done, I was like, "I should be a writer. That would be good. Like, how hard could it be? Um, these guys are doing, doing good things." And I started writing what I thought was gonna be, like, a essay or a blog post or a screed or something, outlining my frustration with the state of the media industry, the state of incentives on the internet. Basically, complaining, uh, "Wah, wah, wah. Social media's breaking our brains." You know, this kind of shit. And I sent it to my friend Hamish, who's really a writer, and he told me, like, "Anybody can complain about this stuff. You're not as original as you think. All of my friends who are writers know all of this stuff. The more interesting question is, if all of this is true, what could you do about it?" And that bec- that turned into Substack.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:54

      And what year was this?

   10. CBChris Best1:56

       2017.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       It's really perfect timing for when everything started getting really heavy in terms of censorship and also the, the chaos that came about because of the pandemic and journalists getting canceled. And th- there was so much weird stuff in terms of what you were allowed to write about or not allowed to write about. And then, of course, the Hunter Biden thing, the laptop. Like, all that stuff, like, came about in the first few years.

   12. CBChris Best2:24

       A lot of the best writers in the world, in my estimation, were getting kind of tissue rejected from the places where they would have been before.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       Tissue rejected?

   14. CBChris Best2:33

       Like, uh, it's an, uh, an analogy. Like, they're getting... Like, an organ transplant that fails-

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       Oh. Oh.

   16. CBChris Best2:38

       ... kind of thing. They're getting sort of pushed out from the, the places that would have been their home and where they could have done the thing that, that mattered f- to them before.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:47

       What happened? How did, how do you think that... Like, what, what steps fell into place that caused all this?

   18. CBChris Best2:55

       My theory on this is that it's a combination of natural human affairs. Right? Like, there's human nature. People act in certain ways. There's dark tendencies that come out when you get people together at scale colliding with the consequences of the first generation of the internet revolution, basically. The way that the first generation of the internet played out was this massive land grab for human attention. So first of all, the computer, and then even more so the smartphone, kind of gobbled up all of this slices of people's lives that were just sitting there. People used to get bored, and then the smartphone came along and that just didn't exist anymore. And in that phase, the things that won were the things that were the most efficient at gobbling up everyone's attention. And so you had this sort of com- The, the game that everyone played was like get everyone's eyeballs, and the things that you do to, to win at that game create an incentive landscape that drives everyone crazy.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       Yeah. The, the way to win at that game is be outraged or get people outraged.

   20. CBChris Best4:01

       Yeah. The way to win at Twitter is be bad in a lot of ways. And if you don't want to do it, somebody else will.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:06

       Be bad?

   22. CBChris Best4:08

       Well, I mean, bad in some, like, be outrageous, be the, the, the ultimate tweet, as I've found out (laughs) myself sometimes, is not the thing that everyone agrees with or even the thing that everyone hates. It's the thing that maximally divides people, the thing that most separates the people that are in your tribe on your side and makes them kind of like cheer, and at the same time spits in the face of, of the other people. That is the, the recipe for a successful tweet because that's the incentive landscape that makes Twitter succeed.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:41

       Yeah, it's just... I go on Twitter once a day, maybe twice a day, just to see what kind of shit the monkeys are throwing at each other.

   24. CBChris Best4:49

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       That's... It seems like a, like a mental institution sometimes. I see people arguing over things and things that are trending that have zero impact in my life, and I, I don't understand why people are putting so much attention to it. But it seems like the recreational outrage that comes about wh- for... because of Twitter is one of the most addictive things I've ever witnessed people take part in. I mean, I say people. I've, I took part in it a little bit for a while, but now I don't engage at all. I d- Literally, I don't read my mentions. I, I occasionally post things, and then I just get the fuck out of there. I, I just think it's too... It's just too poisoned.

   26. CBChris Best5:30

       Yup. You're a wiser man than most.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       Well, I just see it. I see it in other people. I see what it does to people, you know? I, it's just... It, it's very strange, because I never thought Twitter was gonna become that. I always thought Twitter was just, like, some innocuous thing when it first came around. It was silly. A lot of comedians loved it, 'cause it was a great little, uh, because the, in the beginning it was only 140 characters. That's great to keep your jokes succinct in little short little blurbs and try to fun, find fun, funny things to say. But then it just became...... some, some strange way for people to expose their mental illness.

   28. CBChris Best6:09

       Yeah. And none of that stuff is new. None of the, the bad things that people do on social media are a new facet of humanity. It's just, it amplifies it and it creates this, like, false reality that everyone sees that slowly drives us crazy.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:24

       So how difficult was it to, A, start Substack, and then B, get journalists to come on board?

   30. CBChris Best6:31

       The hardest part of starting Substack was convincing ourselves that it could work. 'Cause it started as, I was literally writing this essay, and Hamish and I were talking and we just came across this idea of like, "What if we let writers go independent themselves? What if we let you start your own thing, you get the email addresses, you own everything, people can pay you directly. Now you're getting hired and fired by your readers." It's this super, it, it sounded too simple to possibly work, where like if this thing could work, somebody would have done this already. It seems stupid. But we kinda talked each other into it. And, you know, I'm a tech nerd, I'm a product guy. Hamish is not that. He's a writer, he knows that world. And we kinda both thought that it could work, and so we just sort of, like, slowly talked each other into it. He had a friend who was a writer who, like, needed it right away, basically. Um, had wanted something like this and became our first customer. Uh, a guy called Bill Bishop writes Cynicism, it's a newsletter about China that everybody in business and government reads.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. No, I couldn't…

   1. CBChris Best15:00

      to have people have a platform and have freedom of speech and let that stuff get sorted out because all of the alternatives that sound really good end up in disaster.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:12

      Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I mean, a good (laughs) yeah, funny example is Trump's Truth Social, right? So he, he puts out this new social media platform, Truth Social, and then they start censoring people who talk about January 6th.

   3. CBChris Best15:30

      (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      Like, apparently, they're ... (laughs)

   5. CBChris Best15:33

      Like, like, like you talk about it in a negative way.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:35

      Yes.

   7. CBChris Best15:35

      If they're like, "January 6th might not have been great," they're like, "That's, you're banned. You're not a-"

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      Well, I don't think it's that simple. I think when they start talking about people who, uh, either incited or were saying things or, uh ... F- let's find out, find out what ... 'Cause Truth Social does censor things on the January 6th committee and all the, uh, investigations that are currently underway. They, I don't think they want to shine a light on the fact that, you know, that not only did that happen, but there's some really troubling things about a lot of the people that were involved in it.

   9. CBChris Best16:14

      Yeah, and as soon as you get, as soon as you get to the place where you think your job as a platform, as a, as somebody that's making the things where people are publishing their ideas, is not to let people publish what they want and let it, let the market sort it out, but instead to push some narrative. Even if the narrative is right, even if you're like, you know, doing stuff, trying to push something that's unambiguously good and true, by trying to publish it through censorship and through forced conformity, you end up doing more harm than good, at least we believe.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       Do you think that social media was the driving force for these ideologically driven journalists now? Instead of being a journalist that reports uncomfortable truths even if they don't agree, uh, e- even if the, the side that they're supposedly on, whether they're conservative or liberal, whatever tha- those uncomfortable truths are that fly in the face of whatever the narrative is that that side is pushing. Like, is, is it social media and the echo chambers and worried about the blowback from either followers or other journalists? Like, what caused that?

   11. CBChris Best17:30

       I think it's definitely part of it, and I think, you know, it's not a new thing, right? If you look in every a- in every age, people who are telling, saying things that are true and are uncomfortable to some dominant narrative, that's always, like people always take flak. There's always efforts to censor them. You can go back and look at, you know, people w- who were accused of being communists in the-

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:52

       Yeah.

   13. CBChris Best17:52

       ... in the '60s and '70s. Like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:54

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CBChris Best17:54

       ... um, in every age, that thing exists. I do think that social media amplifies that impulse and creates a, uh, situation where a few people who are displaying being very upset can create a false sense of consensus.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       Yes.

   17. CBChris Best18:15

       Right? There's this, there's, there's, like, the w- you know, Twitter and some of these platforms, you can get like 100 or like even like t- 30 or 40 people that are just really mad, can make it look like-... the whole world is coming down around you, and that everybody hates you and wants to burn you as a witch, um, even if that's not actually true. Even if that's- just a small fraction of people feel that way. And if either you aren't strong enough to deal with that or, more likely, if you're part of an institution that doesn't have the fortitude and the principles to push back against that, um, that's where I think that force can cause things to crumble in a way they ought not to.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:53

       Y- and that is what we're seeing. Yeah. And, and it is- Well, it's an increasingly growing number of people, but it was relatively small initially, and now it seems like there's these mobs of people that hop on any- any narrative to try to enforce, like- It's almost like they're just trying to get a win for the team, you know? And it's- it seems very strange that that- that's taking place in journalism. Because it- it's always disturbing to me that people don't remember the lessons of the past, and we have to, like, keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Like, the example that you used with ACLU, how they were literally defending Nazis and their right to free speech, because their perspective was free speech should be an absolute thing, and your in- their- the- the correct response to that is not to censor these people, it's to correct them with- with correct speech.

   19. CBChris Best19:51

       The optimistic take on this is that every generation has to learn this for themselves.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:55

       Yeah.

   21. CBChris Best19:55

       Like, they don't- people forget. They don't, you know- the- the lessons from the past don't feel real until you've lived through it. But that once we live through it, people will understand, right? That you start- I think people are starting to get a new appreciation for why free speech is a principle that matters. I think it's something we- you- if you come up taking that for granted and living in a world that you enjoy all the benefits of that without ever having to really, like, think about it, you can forget why it matters, and then as soon as that comes for you, it flips it back on. I think we'll see-

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:31

       Yeah.

   23. CBChris Best20:31

       ... people will come in the other direction.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:33

       I think people are starting to turn in that direction now, I- and I think that's- it speaks to the success of Substack, that people are recognizing that you really do have to have some sort of a forum where someone can speak their mind and- and not have, uh- I mean, your fears of criticism, I mean, that's not- that's not the issue. The issue is being deplatformed, where you can't express yourself anymore because whatever you're saying troubles people.

   25. CBChris Best21:02

       Right. And then the- and then the, you know- the consensus reality is that these viewpoints, nobody is saying these things, uh, when in fact there are people that would be saying them if- if- if they hadn't been kicked out of the- kicked out of the thing. That's a- that's- that has been one of the things that we've deliberately, like, put our minds to at Substack. This is one of the things that was in- in my whiny essay that I wrote for Hamish (laughs) complaining about everything that's broken. But it's not even the whole problem, I don't think. I think it's one of the things that's gone wrong, and the other one is just, like, the way that we spend our attention at all and the way that we can value quality versus just time and entertainment has been eroded because of the platforms that have taken over, and these two things, like, go hand in hand. But having people read things that are smart and good by somebody whose incentive is to like, earn and keep people's trust, even if it's not- you know, even if it's not something they're gonna get canceled for, that stuff doesn't always exist unless you have a model that supports it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:08

       And with Substack, do you have an algorithm, like say if you enjoy Bari Weiss's work, I recommend this?

   27. CBChris Best22:18

       So this- the way we do this is very thoughtful because on the one hand, we wanna have a network effect for the platform, right? We want it to be true that when you come to Substack, you know, yes, it's a great tool, yes, it's all these good things, it's free until you take money and then we charge you 10%, um, but we also want it to be like you're gonna grow, right? You're gonna find people who would love your stuff are gonna be able to find it, and by being here, you get more benefit than we're asking in return. On the flip side, all of the obvious ways that you would do that, if we were to copy the way that Twitter does this or the way that YouTube does this, um, we would just be recreating some of the things that we kind of like set out to- to fight against.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:57

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CBChris Best22:57

       And so as we build those features, we do have a thing that introduces you to recommended writers. The difference is it's not Substack or Substack's algorithm that it's recommending, it's the writer that you already subscribed to that's recommending.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:09

       Oh.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yes. Yeah. …

   1. CBChris Best30:00

      in a way that breaks the thing. And they've been... You know, we talk about the, the way the internet changed all this stuff. The internet changed all these businesses too, because they exist in a world where they're competing for a slice of people's attention with Twitter, with TikTok, with YouTube, with everything.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      Yes. Yeah.

   3. CBChris Best30:17

      And so there's this, like, this game where you're, like, trying to grab people at all costs.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:22

      Yeah.

   5. CBChris Best30:23

      Uh, is just a tough game for the truth.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:27

      Mm. Yeah. It is a tough game for the truth. But isn't that sort of what creates the interest for your very business? Like, that's kind of cool for you. I mean, it's... It really is, like, kind of a perfect storm in many ways.

   7. CBChris Best30:44

      The thing that I, that I-... c- get the most excited about, uh, with Substack is getting to hang out with my heroes a bunch. Like, getting to meet people who are making things on Substack that I think matter for the world.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:57

      Who are your, like, some of the ones that you go to on a regular basis on Substack?

   9. CBChris Best31:01

      Who are some good ones? Um, you should have Ethan Strauss on here. This guy does House of Strauss. It's like a, he's like an ex- sports journalist.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       Stress, stress?

   11. CBChris Best31:09

       Strauss.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:10

       Strauss.

   13. CBChris Best31:10

       Uh, S-T-R-A-U-S-S. And he ... This is just at the tip of my tongue. He was a sports journalist and kind of like left the, for a bunch of these same things. He kind of like got disillusioned with how things were going and just started a newsletter and a podcast on Substack. And it's just fas- ... I'm not even a sports guy, like I'm a, I'm a computer nerd. I don't follow sports. Um, but I read and listen to this guy, and it's just fascinating. Um-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       You guys have podcasts on Substack?

   15. CBChris Best31:38

       Yeah, we added a podcast thing, so you can do-

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:40

       Ooh.

   17. CBChris Best31:40

       A lot of writers wanna like ..........................

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       Interesting. Interesting.

   19. CBChris Best31:43

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Do you have video?

   21. CBChris Best31:45

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       Oh.

   23. CBChris Best31:46

       Yeah, we had a video.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CBChris Best31:48

       Um, that's going pretty good actually. Um ...

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:52

       That's great.

   27. CBChris Best31:53

       W- why do you ask?

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       Well, I mean, I, why do I ask is, I, I was very concerned with where podcasts were go- ... I mean, uh, Apple has been pretty cool. They, they never gave us a hard time. But YouTube, they, uh, gave us a hard time about, uh, a bunch of episodes, particularly during the pandemic when they didn't like having-

   29. CBChris Best32:12

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       ... dissenting opinions and different scientists that had different perspectives.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. CBChris Best45:00

      we get to solve. I'll tell you some of the stuff that's working really well so far is this principle of putting the writers in charge and putting the readers in charge. So with, you know, we added a recommendations feature and rather than say we're gonna figure out who you wanna do, we let the writers pick, and you don't have to pick anyone. You can say I'm not gonna, you know, if people come to me I'm not gonna send any- anybody anywhere. Or you can say, "Hey, if you're coming to me, one of the things that I can do for you is put you onto other things that I think are interesting, that I think are worthwhile, and I'm sort of putting my name on that as something that you would check out." Now, that's gonna be less efficient if you just look at the numbers of like how much engagement does that get. It's gonna be impossible to build something that is as efficient as like the YouTube page that's like, "I know what you want better than you do yourself."

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:46

      Yeah.

   3. CBChris Best45:46

      But, as a reader, I'm gonna choose to spend my time on Substack around that stuff because it creates a real alternative, because I know that I'm not giving my mind to something that's kinda operating against me, and I know that if I'm seeing something, I'm, there's like a human being that I, that made that decision and I know who they are and I, it's sort of like about that trusted relationship rather than the algorithm, the scary thing.

   4. JRJoe Rogan46:13

      Are you Canadian?

   5. CBChris Best46:14

      I am. Thank you for noticing.

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:15

      Snuck it out.

   7. CBChris Best46:16

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:16

      A boat.

   9. CBChris Best46:17

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       I heard it, buddy. You only had one.

   11. CBChris Best46:18

       It's been, it's been like slowly disappearing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       (laughs)

   13. CBChris Best46:21

       There was a period of time when I first moved where I, my ears accommodated before my voice, and so I sounded like I had a funny accent to myself, which was very unsettling.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:31

       I, I, I feel you 'cause I had a Boston accent for a while, and then I heard myself on television. I was like, "Ew."

   15. CBChris Best46:37

       Can you still do the Boston accent?

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       Oh yeah, if I get drunk.

   17. CBChris Best46:39

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:40

       Yeah. (laughs)

   19. CBChris Best46:41

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       Especially if I'm drunk with my friends from high school.

   21. CBChris Best46:43

       Nice.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:43

       Yeah, it'll come out 'cause they have it hard.

   23. CBChris Best46:46

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       They still live there. Um, you, are you a public company?

   25. CBChris Best46:50

       No. Private company.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       Uh, do you intend on staying that way? It seems like that's the only way you could avoid influence.

   27. CBChris Best47:00

       I'm not sure that's true. Um, I think there... I mean, the thing that, success for Substack looks like being an independent company, right? We're trying to bring this thing into the world that's new and we think that it's got a real business model that works. We think we're onto something important, and the way that we can best serve that is staying independent and running it ourst- ourselves and making it into the best thing that it can be.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:22

       Yeah.

   29. CBChris Best47:23

       Uh, and I think at some point, you know, you can go public and do that, and there's ways to do it that, that are not... Uh, don't subject you to the kinds of pressures.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:34

       How could you do that, though, if, if the whole business model is about... I mean, if, if, if it's a public company and people buy stock in the company, you have, uh, an obligation to your stockholders to make a maximum amount of money.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Yeah, you pay attention…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      humans? None of the cases in two Chinese provinces so far resulted in people dying. That's what I wanted to know. So 35 people got it, no one's dead. Experts believe the virus is passed on by animals, including shrews. Doctors have raised the alarm over a brand new virus. My, uh, you know, I'm fucking terrified that we've been c- become conditioned now to start freaking out about every virus that comes our way, because we've always had swine flu and avian flu and-

   2. CBChris Best1:00:25

      Yeah, you pay attention now. You know what would be good, though, is if we actually took the lessons we learned from coronavirus and prepared correctly for the next thing.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

      Well-

   4. CBChris Best1:00:34

      Instead of just-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

      ... we need a Substack for medicine.

   6. CBChris Best1:00:37

      That would be a good idea.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

      I mean, y- obviously you have it, and there's some great doctors and, and, um, clinical researchers that do post on Substack. And I've, I've read a lot of their work and... You know, the problem is, there's great consequences in those industries if you step outside the lines and you talk about things that are unpopular. And that's one of the, the real positive things about Substack, is you, you do give people, uh, if they get cast out of these institutions, you give them a very viable and often better alternative. And, and now, because of the popularity of Substack, there's a real good argument that they wouldn't just reach the same amount of people, they'd reach more people, particularly if it gets... if, uh, these, these things get promoted by other people like Barry or other journalists that are very popular-

   8. CBChris Best1:01:28

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

      ... in Substack.

   10. CBChris Best1:01:29

       And there, you know, there is a cost to that, right? Sometimes people get cast out of places 'cause they're nuts and they're wrong and they're crazy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

       Right.

   12. CBChris Best1:01:36

       Like, that-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       Yeah.

   14. CBChris Best1:01:37

       That does happen, right? And so if you have a platform where people can publish, like, you're gonna get some, some, some crazy people. Um, but you're also gonna get the people who are cast out for the wrong reasons.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:50

       Yeah.

   16. CBChris Best1:01:50

       And this is why the thing where...... you know, choosing which human beings you trust on Substack, building a relationship over time with people, making your own guess of their in- integrity. And then, being able to find out, like, who's reading what, who's, like, sharing what, who's promoting what, um, I think is a better answer to how can we get- get all of the points of view out, um, even though it's still imperfect, right? There's still gonna be downsides to every- any tack you can take with this stuff.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:18

       What's the big dispute in the Substack office when you guys discuss these things? Is everybody on the same page?

   18. CBChris Best1:02:26

       I think mostly. I mean, one thing that we've done fairly carefully is that we've- we know what our stance is on these things, and we've written down... Uh, we've, like, written h- Hamish and I and Jay have written essays about, like... Excuse me. (coughs) We gotta-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:48

       There's a little cough button there too if you wanna use it. I love using that thing.

   20. CBChris Best1:02:50

       Oh, that's smart.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:53

       (coughs) Love the cough button. Makes me feel-

   22. CBChris Best1:02:55

       That's-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:55

       ... like we're a real show.

   24. CBChris Best1:02:57

       That's a genius invention. Um, you know, we wrote down this stuff, and we made it public, and we made it public before we had... We were in some controversy or people were mad at us. We sort of, like, take the time to think, like, "What do we believe? Why do we believe it? Why are we working on this thing? Why is it worth working on?" And then when people join the company, they know that stuff. And if you come to Substack and you're like, "Actually, I think you should, you know, not give people a platform and not put writers in charge and have this tight view of what's real," it would just be crazy, because it's just not the... Putting the work into something that's against what you believe in doesn't make sense.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:33

       Also, it would be kind of like managing at scale. Like, how could you when you have tens of thousands? So, that means you would have to have tens of thousands of people going over everyone's stuff, making sure that it's accurate and it- i- it doesn't promote some harmful narrative.

   26. CBChris Best1:03:51

       And those people end up making mistakes, and the mistakes are really unfair.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:54

       Right.

   28. CBChris Best1:03:54

       And like... And- a- and I think people have had this experience at this point. There's been lots of people that just have had, like, you know, uh, warnings or bans from Twitter for just... D- over dumb stuff that was... And then, the company's like, "Oh, yeah. That was a mistake." Like, it's just hard. It's not feasible to be an arbiter of what's true and what's good at scale. If it were, a lot of our problems would just go away.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:14

       Yeah.

   30. CBChris Best1:04:14

       But it- but it's not.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:15:38

   Right. The magic is…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      meticulous about the way you think about things, and also, you have to spend a lot of time alone thinking. Like, r- genuinely alone, no electronics, thinking about how you view life, how you view yourself, how you view all the, the various projects you have that you're doing, and, uh, w- what are you doing with 'em? Why are you doing it?

   2. CBChris Best1:15:24

      Right. The magic is not, "I'm gonna be immune to the influence of everything that I read and see." The magic is, "At some point, I control where I spend my time and attention."

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:33

      Yes.

   4. CBChris Best1:15:33

      "I control whether I'm gonna go for a walk or whether I'm gonna, who I'm gonna listen to and spend my time with."

Episode duration: 2:35:00