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Joe Rogan Experience #1865 - Aaron Rodgers

Aaron Rodgers is a quarterback for the Green Bay Packers and 4-time winner of the NFL Most Valuable Player. www.nfl.com/players/aaron-rodgers/

Joe RoganhostAaron Rodgersguest
Jun 27, 20243h 0mWatch on YouTube ↗

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  1. 0:00 – 1:18

    Rodgers on the backlash for being unvaccinated (Djokovic comparisons)

    1. NA

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

    4. JR

      So it's good to see you, man.

    5. AR

      Good to see you, man. Thanks for having me on.

    6. JR

      How are you doing? My pleasure. How you doing?

    7. AR

      I'm doing great. Yeah, it's been a interesting, uh, year or so, but man, it's been, it's been a good year.

    8. JR

      What was the, the craziness like? Like when all the people were calling you a plague rat and ... (laughs)

    9. AR

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      I mean, it's, it's you and, uh, how do you say the guy's name? The tennis player?

    11. AR

      Uh ...

    12. Novak Djokovic.

    13. JR

      Yeah, Djokovic. I mean, we talk about the healthiest human beings on earth, professional athletes.

    14. AR

      He shouldn't play in the, in the US Open now-

    15. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, I know.

    16. AR

      ... because of this.

    17. JR

      Which is bananas. The guy's already had COVID, recovered from it. I think he had it twice.

    18. AR

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      And he's one of the best athletes in the world. I mean, the guy's body's in tip-top condition.

    20. AR

      Tennis players are in incredible fitness.

    21. JR

      Incredible.

    22. AR

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Yeah. And, "No, you can't come. You didn't follow the rules." Like, it, it's, uh, it defies science, defies logic. It doesn't make any sense. None of it makes sense, especially at this stage of the, the pandemic, air quotes. I mean, what the fuck, man?

    24. AR

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      What was it like for you?

  2. 1:18 – 3:03

    Why Rodgers didn’t get the shot: PEG allergy, J&J clot concerns, and seeking alternatives

    1. AR

      It, it was, it was really difficult, for sure, and a lot of different reasons. I think ... I knew that this was coming down, that at some point I was gonna talk about my status, because I'd chosen to not get vaxxed, for reasons that you talked about, uh, on your show and I talked about on, on-

    2. JR

      We should just say it, because, uh, it's kind of important. You, you're allergic to a medication, or, or, uh, a part of the vaccine.

    3. AR

      Right.

    4. JR

      What is it called?

    5. AR

      PEG, polyethylene glycol. And, uh ... So I did my research. Um, I, I, now, I think f- typically speaking, because I'm healthy and I take care of myself, um, getting vaccinated was not on the top of my list. But, you know, I wanted to look into it because everybody was doing it and talking about it and, and trying to be safe, and I wanted to make sure I was, you know, doing my part if that's what was necessary to keep myself safe and my loved ones safe and my teammates safe. Then I, I looked into it, and at the time, I went on the CDC website and they specifically said, you know, "If, if you're allergic to PEGs, we do, we do not recommend you get vaccinated with the MRNA vaccinations." So, the only other one available was Johnson & Johnson, and it had just got pulled at the time for blood clots. So, I looked into other options, which included, uh, an immunization process through a holistic doctor, and I researched and talked to probably a dozen different MDs and found a protocol that I felt like was, was the best available.

  3. 3:03 – 4:12

    The alternative “immunization” protocol and why he avoids details

    1. JR

      And what is, uh, what, what's involved in that protocol?

    2. AR

      It involved, um, basically, uh, a couple month process of taking a diluted, um, strand of the virus. So, I was doing basically what the vaccine is supposed to do without-

    3. JR

      How did they do that?

    4. AR

      I don't know the, the, the exact way that they did that, but, um, but it was-

    5. JR

      It was by injection?

    6. AR

      No. No, it was, it was, um, it was oral, and ...

    7. JR

      How are they even getting a diluted strand of the virus?

    8. AR

      I don't, I don't know that exactly or want to get into that exactly. (laughs)

    9. JR

      Okay. (laughs)

    10. AR

      I don't think. (laughs) But, um, but there was, uh, hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of people that I knew in this circle that, that were using, that had been doing this to protect ourselves, 'cause we were thinking, hey, look, um, you know, for me, I didn't want to risk anaphylactic shock, uh, or any type of clotting with, you know, especially with a vaccine. So, um, so my ... That was my only option. Either do nothing or do this process, and I felt like that this was

  4. 4:12 – 11:30

    Two-tier NFL life: wristbands, restrictions, daily testing, and the Halloween party fine

    1. AR

      the best way to protect myself and my teammates, and that the NFL would understand, you know, and maybe grant me a waiver, because one of the most difficult parts about the whole process was that there was clearly two classes of player at the facility. There was the vaxxed and the unvaxxed, and the vaxxed had full privileges. Uh, they tested once every two weeks. They had full privileges on the road. They could go out to dinner on the road. They could go to a concert in town. They could go to a comedy show if it wa- if it was in town. They could be at any place they wanted to, right, and live life normally. Non-vaxxed, fully masked, zero privileges on the road, could not go into establishments more than 15 people. You could not be around more than, uh, three, uh, uh, three individuals from the team outside the facility. All these different, what I think now we all realize were crazy, uh, policies, and that's what actually got me in, into, into trouble, was that I attended a Halloween party in a 10,000 square foot warehouse with 18 other individuals, all fully vaccinated, and myself, not vaxxed, and was eventually fined for that, end up getting COVID from, uh, a vaccinated teammate of mine who contracted COVID and spread it. And that's where it gets a little bit crazy, and I, I told this story I think on the McAfee show, but I said when I came to camp, they knew I was not vaccinated. Right? So you had to, you had to submit a vaccination card. That went into the system with the NFL.... and obviously I didn't have one, so I was given, we were given wristbands too. So everybody in the facility knew who was vaxxed and who wasn't vaxxed. Vaxxed was green, non-vaxxed was yellow.

    2. JR

      Oof.

    3. AR

      So already it's weird-

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. AR

      ... you know, like, wearing your colors out there. And I think, you know, to, to do an aside here, there was a lot of shaming involved in it. There was a lot of public shaming that was attempted to coerce people to get vaccinated. Because not only are you wearing a yellow wristband, you're the only ones wearing masks, and you, you have to work out by yourself, can't work out with your teammates.

    6. JR

      So no drills, nothing?

    7. AR

      Well, you could at practice, but weight room stuff, our hour at weight room every day, we're working out on the side, just the seven of us not vaxxed.

    8. JR

      Is it because practice is outside and the weight room's inside? Is it, was that-

    9. AR

      Supposedly, yeah. But, so they knew my vaccination status from the start, um, as did all my teammates. There was a lot of talk about I endangered my teammates and, you know, I lied to my teammates or my team. From day one that I returned, which was July 25th probably of 2021, they knew where I was at. Everybody did. Also, on the side, I, uh, had an appeal going with the NFL, 'cause I said, "Look, here's my, uh, health issues. Here's the protocol I went through. Here's the research behind it." Gave them 500 pages of research from a number of people that put together, um, case reviewed studies around homeopathy and, uh, and immunizations and the safety in them and the, also the efficacy of them. And then I had a conversation with the league, and the league said in this conversation, this is when I knew that my appeal was definitely not gonna happen, was they said, "It's not possible for a vaccinated player, person," sorry, "to contract or transmit COVID if they've been vaccinated." And I said, "You gotta be kidding me, 'cause I showed up and five people, non-players, five people fully vaxxed are out with COVID. So what are you talking about?" And he said, "You're a conspiracy theorist."

    10. JR

      Oh boy.

    11. AR

      And I said, "No, I just think I'm a realist. I'm just looking at the facts here, like you just told me."

    12. JR

      And what, what point in the pandemic was this?

    13. AR

      This was, like, beginning of August 2021.

    14. JR

      So by then they had already known that breakthrough infections were real? By then the, it had already, I mean, the, the vaccines started being rolled out, um, was it, when, what was the first year? It was January of 2020 where they started giving them to older people, right? Right, I'm sorry. January of 2021 rather. Yeah, yeah.

    15. AR

      Sorry. January of 2021 they started giving it out to older people, wasn't that it? They started rolling them out in March and April, 'cause that's when I was going through the process of researching and looking into what I could do-

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. AR

      ... to protect myself having the, you know, the allergy that I had.

    18. JR

      And by August people were still, they were already getting it?

    19. AR

      Yes.

    20. JR

      Even though they had been vaccinated. So this was not, you know-

    21. AR

      It wasn't talked about, I don't think, a whole lot.

    22. JR

      Right, but it was four months after-

    23. AR

      But it was definitely happening, yeah.

    24. JR

      So it was definitely happening, yeah.

    25. AR

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      I had only known one person at that time, somewhere around April, that had been vaccinated and also got COVID, and I just thought it was an aberration.

    27. AR

      I didn't, based on what I saw in the first few weeks-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. AR

      ... at the facility, and that's why I thought that there was an opportunity. Um, but it was difficult because we were separated. There was a whole other situation that was going on that, uh, you know, also was going on in, in, in the rest of society is that-

    30. JR

      Uh-huh.

  5. 11:30 – 14:55

    The “immunized” answer, media storm, and Rodgers’ defense of integrity

    1. AR

      guys were saying, you know, it's, you know, m- y- you know, it's personal or whatever, you know, didn't wanna talk about their status, and it almost guaranteed you weren't vaccinated, right? So then they were getting ripped and certain guys said, "Yes, I'm vaccinated." And you know, then they tried to get them to say shit about their teammates, you know, who weren't vaccinated, like dog their teammates out. So I had been ready the entire time for this question, and had thought about how I wanted to answer it. And I had come to the conclusion, I'm gonna say, "I've been immunized." And if there was a follow-up, then talk about my process. But thought there's a possibility that I'd say, "I'm immunized."... maybe they understand what that means, maybe they don't. Maybe they follow up. They didn't follow up. So then I go the season, them thinking, some of them, that I was vaccinated. Right? Because they fall- the only follow-up they asked was basically asking me to rip on my teammates. Like, "What do you say to your teammates who aren't vaccinated?" Like, "What kind of example do you feel like you're setting, you know, to your teammates who aren't vaccinated?" And I said, "It's everybody's own decision with their body, and we're super healthy individuals. We take care of ourselves, we understand what goes in our bodies, and I don't have any judgment on any decision that a guy makes with their own body," right? But I knew at some point, if I contracted COVID or if word got out, because it's the NFL and there's leaks everywhere, it was possible I'd have to answer the questions. And then sure enough, I contract COVID in, uh, well, the beginning of November, end of October, um, and that's when the shit storm hit. Because now I'm a liar, I'm in- you know, endangering, uh, you know, the community, my teammates-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. AR

      ... all these people. And that, you know, the- you know, the- the attempted take-down of me and, you know, my word and my integrity, uh, began. But, um, so that was, that was difficult. But I will say, and I- and I'm thankful to be on this show. Like, I really appreciate you, and you helping me out during that time. I reached out to you, uh, I think beginning of the season, I feel like, and just said, "Hey." 'Cause you had talked about it on your podcast a little bit. You'd had some, um, you know, controversial, maybe less controversial now, um, people on there talking about-

    4. JR

      Quite a bit less controversial now.

    5. AR

      (laughs) Talking about their, uh, you know, their ex- people, experts in the field, talking about, you know, their own, uh, ideas about COVID. And- and, uh, and, you know, you helped me with a, uh, you know, a- a game plan to be ready in case I did get COVID. And- and I followed it to a T, and when I got COVID, you know, within 36 hours I was, you know, symptom-free and feeling amazing. But the protocols was you were off for 10 days. So I missed a game. We lost a football game. I came back, had to answer a ton of questions about it. Obviously, I had my, you know ... Basically, I lost, you know, the majority of allies I thought I had in the media. The good thing is, it drew a real line in the sand, and everybody who wanted to jump on me and- and trash me did and showed their true colors. And very few people, uh, you know, kind of in the media at least, uh, stuck by me.

  6. 14:55 – 27:43

    Narratives, scapegoats, and shifting rules: MVP vote controversy and playoff testing changes

    1. JR

      Well, it was like McCarthyism at cert- at a certain point in time. It was, it was like a red scare. Like, everybody was looking for Communists. They were just looking for non-vaxxers.

    2. AR

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      There ... It was, it was like a fever in the air, because people had been convinced that this was the thing that was gonna get us out of the pandemic, and if you didn't follow that thing, that you were the enemy of it. So, I could kind of understand why people had that perspective if they hadn't looked into it, which is a weird term. Or at least if they hadn't, uh-

    4. AR

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      ... you know, it's a- it's kind of a-

    6. AR

      Right.

    7. JR

      ... shallow term. But if they hadn't, you know, consulted with real experts, especially in your case, that when you had an actual allergy. It was a- it's a particular issue. And the desire to not take the medication that was pulled for clots, that seems pretty fucking reasonable. But reason was out the window at that point in time.

    8. AR

      Well, that's what was crazy to me, was people just saying, "Oh, just get the jab." You know, the Keith Olbermanns of the world. "Just get the damn jab." And I'm like ...

    9. JR

      That guy is the gift that keeps giving.

    10. AR

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      He is fucking hilarious.

    12. AR

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      Unintentionally hilarious like he's a character in a movie. I love it. I hope he keeps talking.

    14. AR

      But that was the- that was the sentiment. I'm like-

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. AR

      ... uh, anaphylactic shock. Uh, also, I'm super healthy and take care of myself really well and, oh, by the way, I just went from woke up, really bad symptoms, to 36 hours later, I feel great.

    17. JR

      Yeah, no one wanted to hear that. No one wanted to hear that there was a way that you could get through it without being vaccinated, and that you would recover very quickly. No one wanted to hear that.

    18. AR

      No.

    19. JR

      And they were coming with all sorts of reasons why you- you shouldn't even say that.

    20. AR

      Oh, and they- yeah, they came after you about horse dewormer and, you know, Sanjay was on here and you mopped the floor with him and, you know. And then, you know, then he goes back on CNN and- and basically, you know, tries to rip you. It's just like- it was- it was ridiculous. But let me just say this point, 'cause I think this is really important. The- you know, the two main things against me that they wanted to say. One, that I lied. I didn't. I didn't- you didn't ask me a follow-up.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. AR

      But I said I was immunized and I went through an immunization process, so I don't know how you would classify that other than to say I was immunized, but that, to me, was the truth, is the truth. You didn't ask a follow-up. You ask a follow-up, I'd tell you what I mean. That- that's one. Number two, that I really- I- I don't like, um, and didn't like the characterization, that I put people in danger. Right? That I endangered my teammates, I lied to my teammates. And I already said from day one they knew. The medical staff, everybody in the organization, everybody knew I'm wearing a yellow wristband. I'm not vaxxed. Everybody knew my status. But number two, what non-vaxxed players had to do is we had to test every single morning. So, vaccinated players, testing every- once, once every two weeks. Right? Non-vaxxed, every single morning. Every off-day, uh, every day of the bye week. Off for a week while everybody else is off traveling, enjoying their life. We stay in Green Bay and we tested every single day. So, every day that you saw me, and I've said it before, I go to about two places in Green Bay. I go to the grocery store and I go to Barnes & Noble (laughs) , you know? Like, I love to read and I gotta get my groceries. If you saw me at those two places, you can be 100% sure that I tested that morning and that I tested negative. Before I even could walk into the facility, I had to test, wait in my car-... and then wait for 30 minutes for them to text, to text me and say that you're, that you're negative, you can enter the building. So, every single day, I was at the facility, every single day that any of my teammates saw me, any of my coaches, every single day that you saw me at Barnes & Noble or at the grocery store, I was negative for that day. Like I, I took it seriously because obviously there was a lot of, a lot going on. Now, I didn't believe, uh, in wearing a mask at a press conference. You have a room full of em- reporters who are fully vaxxed, wearing masks, sitting 30 feet away from me, and again, this goes to the shame, they wanted me as a non-vax player to wear a mask for an interview.

    23. JR

      (laughs) While you're negative? You were tested that day.

    24. AR

      While I'm negative that morning-

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. AR

      ... in a room full of fully vaccinated people who are, none of them are closer than 30 feet away from me.

    27. JR

      I don't think, during a pandemic, there's anything wrong with testing people every day. I mean, I think if you want to keep people safe, and you want to keep that from spreading throughout the team, that's probably the best way to approach it. But everything else just seems so nuts. But we're looking at it, you know, hindsight is 20/20, right? We're looking at it from after it's over. And so many people, they just bought the narrative that was being promoted by CNN and MSNBC and wherever that if the, if you get vaccinated, you can't get COVID, you can't spread COVID. That was the narrative.

    28. AR

      And that's my thing. Let's ... I get it. Like-

    29. JR

      Uh-huh.

    30. AR

      ... you want to test every- everybody every day?

  7. 27:43 – 29:31

    From COVID to cultural control: robots, ‘eat the bugs,’ and WEF skepticism

    1. JR

      (laughs) It's hard. It's coming. We're fucked.

    2. AR

      Ugh.

    3. JR

      We're fucked. They're coming. I mean, whether they're using them for military or they're gonna use them for law enforcement, but, uh, we're gonna have robots wandering through the streets telling you, "Show your papers."

    4. AR

      I, Robot, man. That's, it's-

    5. JR

      Yeah. It's gonna happen. W- I remember that movie used to be so fun 'cause I used to think of it as like, "Oh, wow, this is never gonna happen but this is kind of crazy if it did," and now I'm like, "Jesus, when is that gonna happen?" Because y- you see those, um, those, uh, Boston dynamics robots. Like, my friend Lex Fridman has one and it was over at his house. I was like, "Jesus, man." It's like, it's like someone having a werewolf in their house. Like, "What are you doing with this fucking thing? Get this out of here." (laughs) Like ... (laughs) It's got-

    6. AR

      I saw a, a robot video the other day, a robot shooting at targets and they were fucking with it. You know, they were-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. AR

      ... hitting in the back and messing around and it'd still find its range and pshut- you know.

    9. JR

      I think that's fake. Isn't that one fake? 'Cause there's a, there's a series of guys that do these amazing CGI things and I think that's one of the things they did. I think-

    10. AR

      I hope it's fake.

    11. JR

      ... they were turning-

    12. AR

      'Cause that was scary.

    13. JR

      Yeah, it's scary.

    14. AR

      But some of the little dog robots?

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. AR

      That opened doors and stuff? That's ...

    17. JR

      D- have you ever seen that, um, I think it's called Heavy Metal? It's an episode of, uh, Black Mirror?

    18. AR

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Have you ever seen that episode-

    20. AR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      ... where the robot's chasing after the lady and it-

    22. AR

      Yep.

    23. JR

      Well, that is so possible. So possible.

    24. AR

      Probable.

    25. JR

      All they'd have to do is be able ... Yeah, and if it's tracking with satellite and if you, you have a fucking RFID chip that they can track or some sort of a Bluetooth locator, like a AirTag and they know where you are at all times. (sighs) We're gonna, we're gonna, we're about a decade away from a very strange world.

    26. AR

      And we're all eating, and we're all eating insects?

    27. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    28. AR

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      We're eating insects or Bill Gates fake meat.

    30. AR

      (sighs)

  8. 29:31 – 39:11

    Fear Factor food extremes: bugs, balut, and the psychology of disgust

    1. JR

      Because these non-health experts, these really unhealthy people that want to tell people how to be healthy, it's very strange. And they all wanna use climate change as this, uh, this is the main reason why you have to follow this rule that's gonna enrich them beyond imagination. If they can really get you to get off of meat and start eating a plant-based burger that their company develops or a bug-based burger. I'm not opposed to eating bugs, I was the host of Fear Factor, right? I've eaten a lot of bugs. And when I, uh, last time I went to Mexico actually, um, when we, we went to this resort and we got to this place and they had a bowl of, like, stir-fried crickets-

    2. AR

      Ugh.

    3. JR

      ... that, uh, it was like a teriyaki flavored stir-fried cricket. I was like, "What the fuck is this?" This is like a few years back before the pandemic and I tried it and it's like, "It's not bad." It's kind of salty. They were good. It's like, just like ... A bug is no different than a crab. Crabs are delicious. They're just big bugs. That's what they are. In fact, one of the things we found out...... from Fear Factor, is that people that are allergic to shellfish are also allergic to roaches.

    4. AR

      (sighs)

    5. JR

      And we found that out the hard way. (laughs)

    6. AR

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      This guy, but he ... I ate a roach.

    8. AR

      That was great.

    9. JR

      I ate a roach on Fear Factor.

    10. AR

      Great show, by the way.

    11. JR

      It's a fun show.

    12. AR

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      But roaches don't taste bad. They don't. They taste like almost nothing. It's like a flavor ... It's gross that you're eating a roach, but when you're eating it, I was like, "This is nothing. There's not much going on here." If I had to eat roaches to stay alive, I'd eat roaches.

    14. AR

      All right.

    15. JR

      Like, if I was trapped somewhere and I had to eat roaches, yeah.

    16. AR

      It's fast.

    17. JR

      Nah. Nah, I'd rather be full.

    18. AR

      (laughs) I'd rather eat meat.

    19. JR

      And that's scary. I, I have a distorted perception of food, obviously, because of Fear Factor, I think. I know what you can eat and what you can't eat, and it's, uh ... Most of it's psychological, and a lot of the things that we serve people, in fact, were delicacies in other countries. Like, I had a lot of Filipino friends, and, uh, they ... We, we served balut, which is a, it's a ... I believe it's a duck. It's a fertilized duck egg. And so-

    20. AR

      Oh, yeah.

    21. JR

      ... it has, like, the embryo-

    22. AR

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      ... in the egg.

    24. AR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. JR

      And it's a delicacy in the Philippines, and so my Filipino friends were like, "That's hilarious."

    26. AR

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      "We eat that all the time. We love it." (laughs)

    28. AR

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      Have you ever seen Balut?

    30. AR

      Yeah, I have now. I feel like I've seen the episode. I-

  9. 39:11 – 43:25

    NFL pain management and opioid culture: Percocet, Toradol, and addiction fallout

    1. AR

      Yeah, I mean, the pain management, especially with our sport, it's fascinating to see how things, uh, are treated. And I use quotations untreated because, um, up until probably a decade ago, you know, it was easily accessible to get Oxy, Percocet, Vicodin, whatever you wanted. Um, yeah.

    2. JR

      Did they make sure you weren't playing on that stuff?

    3. AR

      No, you played definitely. Yeah.

    4. JR

      (exhales) Wow. And what ... Did you ever play on it?

    5. AR

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      What did you play on?

    7. AR

      Percocet.

    8. JR

      And what was the impact on your physical performance?

    9. AR

      I just ... I mean, it was more for pain management, so I wasn't taking, like, uh, you know, any high dosage. But, um, stupid, ultimately. You know, just ... You know, here's the thing. I've had, I had knee issues for a long time. And, you know, you take anti-inflammatories, right? So you're taking anti-inflammatories that all come with a warning. If you take this more than a few weeks, you gotta get your blood tested, right? Because it can do damage to your liver. There is so many different things you can take now for, uh, you know, anti-inflammatory things that are natural, that don't cause damage to your body.

    10. JR

      Right. CBD?

    11. AR

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. AR

      But CBD is frowned upon, and it's always said, "Well, there's not enough research yet about, you know, CBD in any, you know, positive, you know, uh, you know, uh, help that it can do for your body." But we're still giving out painkillers. Way less, and it's actually monitored now 'cause there were a few teams that were abusing that. Um, again, this was over a decade ago, I think, when they really changed the policy. But, um, but no, it's just, it's, it's ass backwards, the, the whole treatment of, of the professional a- It does, definitely in our sport, you know, that we're still giving out that kinda stuff.

    14. JR

      When did they stop doing it as frequently? Was it when the opioid-

    15. AR

      There was-

    16. JR

      ... crisis kicked in?

    17. AR

      No. There was a, you, I think there was one team that, uh, you know, that people were kinda raiding the, uh, the cupboards.

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. AR

      And then they put a, they put a stop to it. So now, it's more of a pharmacy-based thing, where you gotta sign in and sign out, and it's monitored and different things.

    20. JR

      But they don't discourage players from playing on pain pills?

    21. AR

      No, I don't think so.

    22. JR

      (exhales) I mean, I can't imagine someone fighting on that stuff. I mean, that, their, the, USADA is very strict in terms of, like, what you're allowed to take and what you're not allowed to take. And, you know, they test people very frequently. So much so that, you know, Paulo Costa, who just fought in the last UFC, they actually tested him the day of the weigh-in, which c- caused a huge outrage, because this guy cuts a lot of weight and he was dehydrating himself. And they show up at his house at 6:00 in the morning and asked him to test, which is egregious, ridiculous. And that'll never happen again. They put a stop to it, and made sure USADA doesn't step outta line. But at least they stop people from competing on things.

    23. AR

      Which they should.

    24. JR

      At least.

    25. AR

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      Yeah. I mean, 'cause I couldn't imagine if-

    27. AR

      But, I mean, in the NFL, I mean, for years, in, you know, '70s and '80s, there was a lot of stuff, you know, guys were taking some crazy stuff. Even when I was in high school, people were taking Rip Fuel, which is basically speed-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. AR

      ... you know, and playing on that.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  10. 43:25 – 49:52

    Distrust of pharma and regulators: Vioxx, advertising, peer review limits, and liability

    1. JR

      But see, they're so addictive. And that's another thing that this pharmaceutical company tried to lie about. The pharmaceutical companies tried to lie. I mean, that's, uh, Dopesick, that's the premise of that, that whole show. Like, they were lying about whether or not these things were addictive when they knew they were. These are the same people. The same people that were telling you that you had to get jabbed are the same people that were telling you that opioids were not addictive, that-

    2. AR

      They paid out $2.3 billion on the-

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. AR

      ... biggest fraud case in the history of the world.

    5. JR

      Yeah, and then there's the Vioxx case that killed more than-

    6. AR

      Which-

    7. JR

      ... 60,000 Americans.

    8. AR

      Which, when I was in college, everybody was taking Vioxx.

    9. JR

      Wow.

    10. AR

      Everybody. All my teammates were taking Vioxx.

    11. JR

      It's dangerous shit. I know a guy who had a stroke from it, a guy who-

    12. AR

      And-

    13. JR

      ... fought in the UFC.

    14. AR

      ... well, Chantix, right?

    15. JR

      Yeah, yep.

    16. AR

      As well.

    17. JR

      Yep.

    18. AR

      I think you said on your show, but there's something crazy ... I can't remember the exact number, but how many different products get pulled every single month that-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. AR

      ... were ...

    21. JR

      FDA approved.

    22. AR

      FDA approved.

    23. JR

      Yeah. It's a lot.

    24. AR

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Yeah. That was with John Abramson, who is, um, a doctor who's worked to litigate against pharmaceutical companies and in particular against Vioxx when they were doing that. They had clear information that Vioxx was gonna be damaging to people. They knew there was problems and they s- they literally said, "There's going to be some issues, but we're gonna do very well." That's literally internal memos saying, "We're gonna do well financially, but people are gonna have ..." Like, that, those kind of issues, like cardiovascular issues, blood clotting issues, strokes, they knew it was gonna kill people. They knew it. And they got charged ... I, I believe what happened was they made 12 billion and they were fined five, which is, uh-

    26. AR

      It's a good profit margin.

    27. JR

      (clears throat) It's just crazy that you can have any profit margin off of killing 60,000 people. And these are the people we're supposed to trust? Like, all of a sudden, people put aside all of their thoughts that they had kept ... Every ... You talk to anyone about whether or not the pharmaceutical companies were ethical, whether or not they were telling the truth, whether or not they promoted dangerous medications that were unnecessary and everybody would say yes. Those same people were calling you a plague rat. (laughs)

    28. AR

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      It's kind of funny now that it's over, but in the heat of it-

    30. AR

      It wasn't exactly the healthiest swath of the population either that was, uh-

  11. 49:52 – 1:09:49

    Education pressure, student debt traps, and a ‘food appreciation’ vendetta at Cal

    1. AR

      Yeah, then you get into student loans.

    2. JR

      (sighs) Well, that's the craziest one, right? Because you can't even get rid of those.

    3. AR

      Right. Every other, every other, right, uh, uh-

    4. JR

      Every other loan.

    5. AR

      ... loan-

    6. JR

      Yeah. You can go bankrupt.

    7. AR

      ... you can bankrupt.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. AR

      Except for?

    10. JR

      Student loans. I know of people that are getting Social Security docked. Their Social Security money is being docked because they owe student loans. So, you're at the finish line, it's the end of your life and you owe money for loans you took out when you were 18, and now you're 65.

    11. AR

      (sighs) Ooh.

    12. JR

      That's a rough way to l- leave this life. It's, it's a rough... And, and the amount of interest based on it. I was reading about this woman who took out $150,000 in student loans, and now she owes $250,000 because of all the interest and all the time.

    13. AR

      Yeah. And how much ov- over the course of that loan, what are you into... What are you paying?

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. AR

      Like, seven figures for sure, right?

    16. JR

      (laughs) Fucking crazy. (laughs)

    17. AR

      Off of that.

    18. JR

      I mean, it's, it's a fucking business. And it's also, for many people, something that they're not gonna use for whatever occupation they choose. I mean, maybe it will help them get a job if it shows that they have a bachelor's in this or a master's in that. But there's a large amount of people out there that are out there working in a field that is not even their field of study in college. So, they have this student loan that didn't even apply to what they wound up doing for a living, and then they have to pay it off forever. And it's subsidized by the government, so it's e- it's an extraordinarily expensive endeavor. And you're making this choice when you're 18, you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

    19. AR

      No.

    20. JR

      You have zero idea. It's the most vulnerable time in your life before your, your frontal lobe forms. You're, you're not even 25 years old and you're making these life decisions that will affect you forever.

    21. AR

      But it's not pushed, uh, you know, it's shame, you're shamed almost-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. AR

      ... if you don't go to college, right?

    24. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    25. AR

      It's never pushed like, "Hey, go learn a technical s- skill-"

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. AR

      "... where you can do a year of apprenticeship or college or study-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. AR

      ... and then go make se- six figures in a job."

    30. JR

      One of the biggest times in my life where I felt like a loser was right outta high school, 'cause I took a year off. And I remember just telling people that I was gonna take a year off and they were like-

  12. 1:09:49 – 1:43:58

    Politics, media trust, and institutional incentives: IRS, civil forfeiture, CNN/Trump cycles

    1. JR

      And hired 87,000 IRS agents.

    2. AR

      And arm 'em.

    3. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    4. AR

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      That was one of the best things about the ad, when they were, uh, calling out for people, that you might have to use lethal force. Like, since when does a fucking IRS agent shoot people? Like, uh, aren't you just supposed to collect money?

    6. AR

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      Like, why are you shooting people? (laughs) Why is that in the job description?

    8. AR

      Well, I don't know if you, if you remember this, and maybe Jamie can look it up so he verifies this, but I believe a few years ago when there was an ammo shortage, there was conversation around, uh, the fact that, kind of bizarrely, the government and, and I believe at the time, the IRS had bought up something like over a billion or a couple billion rounds of ammunition. I remember th- thinking at the time, and maybe it's TSA as well, but we're thinking, "What... But I feel like the IRS is... What do they need ammunition for?" That's kind of strange, right?

    9. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, I don't know why the IRS would need ammunition. Unless there's some person who won't pay taxes and is holed up. GOP wants answers on IRS's 700,000 ammo stockpile, $700,000 ammo stockpile, as Dems okay $80 billion for agency enforcement. And this is in August of 2022, so this is-

    10. AR

      But I'm talking about like five-

    11. JR

      ... just a week-

    12. AR

      ... six, seven years ago.

    13. JR

      Ah, well, this is just a week ago.

    14. AR

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Yeah, that's a lot of ammo. (laughs)

    16. AR

      For what? Uh, isn't it a bunch of CPAs and, uh... (laughs)

    17. JR

      Yeah. (laughs) They like to be strapped.

    18. AR

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Just in case someone comes for the files. But I would imagine there would be a situation where someone was, um, a criminal and they were hiding their taxes. And, uh, the IRS agents were in danger because they were gonna target the IRS agent that was investigating their case. I could imagine that. But I think that would be a rare thing, and you would involve-

    20. AR

      But they're not-

    21. JR

      ... traditional law enforcement.

    22. AR

      I, that's what I'm saying. They're not law enforcement.

    23. JR

      Right, right.

    24. AR

      The IRS isn't, right? Unless they're under that...

    25. JR

      I mean, are they technically law enforcement? What is the... What's the techninal (sic) - technical definition of IRS? It's not law enforcement, is it?

    26. AR

      Well, uh-

    27. JR

      I guess so, right? Kind of.

    28. AR

      Revenues, service. Responsible for collecting taxes and administering their internal revenue code, the main body of the federal statutory tax law.

    29. JR

      Strapped.

    30. AR

      Got it. So-

Episode duration: 3:00:57

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