EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,053 words- 0:00 – 2:31
Life after Congress & what it takes to run for office
- NANarrator
(drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Hello, Tulsi.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hello, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's good to be back.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's cracking? How you been?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Nice seeing you.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's it been like, uh, retiring from-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... being a congresswoman for a wee bit?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) Yeah. I alwa- it feels so weird hearing that word.
- JRJoe Rogan
Retire?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's a, it's a dirty word.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I don't know what that means.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't believe in retirement.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I b- I believe in quitting. (laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Y- yeah. (laughs) I suppose. Uh, or, or moving on, rather.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Moving on. I, that's where I, I never... I've never seen politics as a "career". Some people are like, "Oh, how's it like retiring from Congress?" Like, I, I don't, I can't relate-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... to that. I'm just continuing the work, but in a different way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the way you did it though is what most people should do. Like, when people are running for office and then they're also in a job.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you're not doing a good job at that job. There's no way you can be.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, running for office, just campaign financing, just ra- raising the money for the campaign has to be crazy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It is.
- 2:31 – 6:00
Money in politics and the insider-trading controversy (Pelosi example)
- JRJoe Rogan
It really is. The, the, between money and politics and it's just like, it's, it's... I mean, it would be wonderful if we could get money entirely out of politics. If the only way that a politician could make money while they're in office is just their salary.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
If we said it that way.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, I'm sure you're aware of the Nancy Pelosi stuff. Like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh, absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's wild.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It is. And, and, and look, this is, I think this is one of the good things about social media is, of course, the, the mainstream corporate media is hardly covering it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
At all. But because of social media, things like that are spreading like wildfire. Like, "Hey, Paul Pelosi is doing these trades within this period of time of Nancy Pelosi voting on this bill or bringing a bill to the floor," because we've gotta remember, Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, nothing happens without her knowing about it or giving her stamp of approval. So regardless of whether it's happening in the Judiciary Committee or the Commerce Committee or the Armed Services Committee, if there's a bill coming to the floor and there's major legislation that's being passed or is being squashed, that is happening with her say-so. And so, so just in this, these last few days, you know, they... Once people started making noise saying, "Hey, you as a member of Congress or your spouse or your adult child should not be allowed to conduct insider trading-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... on issues that Congress is dealing with," which, which really covers every issue under the spectrum, they can't pretend anymore that they haven't been doing it. And yet even as Nancy Pelosi's like, "Okay, okay, fine, we'll draft legislation," but Congress is about to take a break as they head into the general elections, and once again, she's refusing to bring the bill to the floor for a vote, saying, "Oh, well, you know, we're not gonna bring it to the floor if it doesn't have support." Put people on the fricking spot. Make them cast that vote.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is the last thing she wants-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right before the elect-
- JRJoe Rogan
... is to lose that-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... honey pot (laughs) . She doesn't... First of all-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... she doesn't want it becoming a big important thing that people are talking about.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Where people start (clears throat) ... Excuse me (clears throat) ... where people start looking at it and say, "Uh, well, how much money have you made?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "Why are you worth $200 million? That's crazy. You make $200,000 a year, you're worth $200 million. Like, what's going on?" What, and you look at, like, Paul Pelosi's stock, like, what his, uh, his record is, he's better than Warren Buffet-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and George Soros, who are like wizards. (laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) Exactly. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Those guys are the best and he's-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... better than them.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- 6:00 – 8:19
“Permanent Washington”: media access, insider clubs, and why stories don’t get covered
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, wha- do you think that there's some...... discussion? Or is it just an understanding that you'll lose access to these people if you highlight this? Like, what is... Why are they not covering that?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's, it's like this, this chummy insiders club in Washington and, you know, a common term that's being used now is, is called Permanent Washington, which really fits when you think about it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... because it kind of encapsulates that whole swampy ecosystem of both those who've been elected into positions, those who are long time appointed or powerful bureaucrats, and the corporate media. They all go out to the same parties, the same social functions, you know, passing information to each other. Um, and so, you know, if the anchor of a big time news show says, "Hey guys, guess what? Nancy Pelosi and her husband are, are insider trading," then they have to think about, "Oh, well am I cut- am I burning a bridge? Am I cutting off access to-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"... you know, information that she or her staff might be feeding me that I can break news on and all this stuff?" So, you know, it's like, "You, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." And if you start pissing off certain people, then you get kicked out of the cool kids club.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That's, that's really what's at... what's at, uh, at the heart of it. And so they, they play along, 'cause this, this is... this issue's come up before. It came up years ago. Congress said, "Okay, we're gonna take action to stop insider trading and make sure that elected leaders aren't benefiting off of insider information." And so they passed the STOCK Act, which did nothing, essentially. It just said, "Okay, if you are going to, um, you know, trade in stocks or buy or sell stocks, uh, you have to report it. You have to be transparent about it." Most of Congress has failed to do even that. So it did nothing to stop it. Says, "You just gotta tell us," and most people are like, "Yeah, I don't... I'm not gonna tell you anyway."
- JRJoe Rogan
And there's no repercussions for-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And there's no re- Well, they might get like $100 fine.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
$200 fine.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ok.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
As, as they make millions in their-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... in their trade. So, you know, again, it's good. It's... This is, this is kind of like one of those things that should give us all a glimmer of hope, where if enough people, We the People make noise about it, um, they're forced to pay attention.
- 8:19 – 17:39
Going on Fox/Tucker as a Democrat—and the price of crossing narrative lines
- JRJoe Rogan
So now what, what about I- w- when you're talking about like, chumminess and like, sort of like the hidden rules, what about if you do right-wing talk shows? Like, if you're a Democrat-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and you decide to go on Tucker Carlson, for instance, like, what is that like?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Um, it, it ranges from people kind of like, giving you a cynical look, like, "Whose side are you really on?" To, uh, people just outright, um, ending, ending that friendship or that professional relationship 'cause they don't wanna have anything to do with you. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you experienced that?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Over and over.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Over and over. Um, and, and it's not just Tucker Carlson. There's been this negative stigma for almost as long as I've served in Congress against, uh, anyone who actually goes on Fox News, period. And so you could say, like... And I do have... Like, hey, more people watch Fox News than any other cable news channel, so my audience is speaking to the American people. If I have the opportunity to do that, and by the way, Fox News, more than CNN and MSNBC over the last decade, has, uh, been more fair to me in providing me that opportunity to speak to the American people, I'm gonna take advantage of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it seems like one of the things that Fox News does well, is if they have a Democrat on, they don't attack them. They allow them to express themselves.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is interesting.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Whether the host agrees or disagrees-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... that's not the point.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because when a right-wing person seems to be... W- if they're on MSNBC or if they're on CNN, it's like they have these weapons ready to go.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
The blades are sharp and they attack and they're trying to discredit that person-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... trying to mock them. They will talk over them, they will be rude to them, they will mock whatever position they have in- instead of like, trying to offer some sort of a reasonable debate against it. They will just... They will talk over it-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and, and mock it and they'll bring on an ex- another expert and that person talks over it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's, it's not even limited to those who bring like, a so-called right-wing perspective or conservative perspective. It's really anyone who brings a voice, a view, a perspective that, uh, is different from whatever the mainstream narrative is at that point.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Whatever the cause of the day, uh, may be. And so, um, as a Democrat serving in Congress, I experienced that over and over and over again, uh, exactly that reaction that you're talking about, uh, in, you know, not allowing me at least just to come and present my view.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
They can, they can ask me a tough question, they can present an opposing view. That's great. But so many times I've gone on these different shows and, uh, they don't, they don't... they don't even allow that. And, you know, the... It, it, it really just speaks to what, what is really a dangerous mentality amongst the Democratic Party leadership and kind of this, this, um, uh, establishment narrative in, in Washington, which is, uh, they don't believe in freedom. They don't believe in freedom of speech or freedom of thought. And for anyone who brings an opposing view, they, they choose to shut you up, silence you, smear you, try to ruin you or undermine your character and credibility, um, because, you know, they, they don't want the weakness or the insecurity of their own argument to be exposed. And also they immediately judge you as someone who may bring an opposing view, regardless of your political party, um, as, as the enemy, as a threat, as somebody who, who is, is less than and doesn't deserve a voice, which is really, really dangerous for our democracy when you really think about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, it's very spooky, and it's spooky how prevalent that m-... that mindset is, and how many Democrats, not even just politicians, just people that are Democrats, how many people share that position, that you should silence people that you don't agree with.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- 17:39 – 19:18
Woke politics, ideological policing, and the “prove your zeal” dynamic
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) But that, right, like that's, that's like the, um, that's the analogy. That is the, the example of exactly what we're talking about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
This whole mentality of, of wokeism, of being ideologues, that, that not only doesn't make sense, but if you don't agree with it, you're wrong, you're the enemy. If you're silent, right, if you just don't even... A, like, "I got no comment on this," well, you are now complicit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... in the problem.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly. Silence is violence.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And then e- silence is violence. And then, and again, I have experience with all of, like this whole spectrum. And then, like, if you're like, "Okay," like, like, "Get off my ass. Fine, I agree," they're like, "Well, prove it. Prove it. You need to stand on the street corner, you need to scream out loud, you need to do all this."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And, you know, f- the Women's March when Trump got elected, right?I didn't go. I was out of the country. Uh, I got harassed and harangued. "Why weren't you there wearing the pink pussy hat?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"What is wrong with you? You must not believe in, in women's rights. You must n-" And, and the irony is here we are, sitting now with a lot of these same people who like, "Oh, well, I don't know how to define a woman," and, "There is no such thing as a woman," and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It just... But I- all of these examples point to the hypocrisy, the fact that they don't believe in truth, and that whatever their cause of the moment is, is whatever they decide is the truth, and, and the thing that must be measured against, uh, for you. Like, you're either with us or you're against us, and if you're with us, you've got to prove your zealousness for, for the cause-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that a word?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I think so. I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Zealousness?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I think so. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Sounds good. (laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It fits. (laughs)
- 19:18 – 26:28
The ‘What is a woman?’ debate and concerns about medical transition—especially for kids
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, th- it's... There's a chess game, and the, the ultimate checkmate is, "What's a woman?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, when you're coming to... With, with wokeness and any... You can identify as a woman, you get to use the female restroom. Like, okay, but what is it?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a woman? You know, can a man get pregnant? Yes. Okay, well, what is it? Can a biological male get pregnant? And then people panic and they start... The, the pe- pe- people that identify as a woman-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... uh, are capable of being pregnant, and people that identify as a male are capable of also being pregnant. Like, what are you saying?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a... Let's say, if you identify as a woman, what are you identifying as? Like, that's the documentary, the Matt Walsh documentary-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
... which is fucking amazing, and also amazing that no one's reviewing it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm. No one-
- JRJoe Rogan
No one's reviewing it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
That documentary is fantastic, because Matt Walsh allou-... And you can only get it on The Daily Wire, I think, which is unfortunate, but I get it. You know, I get it. The Daily Wire produced it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They want people to sign up and they're creating this alternative platform for content. But that documentary is so good, because Matt Walsh simply asks questions.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he doesn't... And he does it deadpan.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's amazing watching these people just, like, twist reality into some weird fucking contortion-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Contortion. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's not.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like, what are you saying?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's so revealing.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is a woman?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
What does it mean?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. It's so revealing.
- 26:28 – 40:19
Schools, ‘furries,’ viral controversies, and the slippery-boundaries argument
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? Like what, is everyone out of their fucking mind? Like, we know children are incredibly malleable. We know children are impulsive. They, they dec- Like, there's kids... Ready for this? My friend, his wife is a school teacher. And she works at a school that had to install a litter box in the girls' room because there is a girl who's a furry-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh, my goodness.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who identifies as an animal, and her mother badgered the school until they agreed to put a litter box in one of the stalls.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So this girl goes into the litter room or to the girls' room and urinates or whatever. I don't know if she poops in it. That's pretty gross.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) That's gross.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, like, if you could teach your cat... By the way, here's the thing. If you could teach your cat to use the toilet, you would.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like you don't want a box of piss in your house. It's the worst.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I've had cats my whole life.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's the worst thing about having cats. You gotta clean that box of piss every day.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like it's the greatest thing about dogs. They go outside. Like you're, you're a fucking human.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
The cat's got their humans trained. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Imagine how crazy that is. You're a fucking human being and you prefer a litter box? You wanna piss into a pile of sand rather than use a bathroom-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that you could flush the toilet, wipe yourself like a normal person. Like you're so crazy-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Ugh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... with what you think an animal is that, not only have you said this, but you've conned the school-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... into putting this fucking litter box in a girl's room.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is bananas.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It is. It's absolutely insane.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure you saw the teacher in Washington State that has the giant rubber boobs.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh my God, I did.
- 40:19 – 52:24
Pronouns at work, social contagion claims, and fairness in women’s sports
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And how a lot of these same people who are saying, "Hey, if you refuse to use pronouns, you're fired." Uh, a friend of mine in a- in a huge New York law firm, corporate policy is you have to put your pronouns in your email signature block or you will have to talk to the HR department. And he's like, one of the partners at this law firm. He's like, "This is bullshit."
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) Now, why do they make that distinction? Why... What- what kind of pressure force them into having something as crazy as like, you have to have your pronouns.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I- I- I don't know. It, uh, it's I- I think that, um, it's driven by fear.
- JRJoe Rogan
But like what percentage of the people-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
All of this is driven by fear.
- JRJoe Rogan
... are having a problem identifying someone-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... without pronouns?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, how many people are we talking about?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I- I would imagine it's a very small number.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a very small number, uh, just the number of people that identify as trans is higher than it's ever been before, which is really weird that that's not consistent. And you could say, "Well, it's because they feel comfortable doing that because it's an accepted part of society." Like, maybe, but according to Abigail Shrier who wrote that bro- book, uh, Irreversible Damage-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... with young girls, it's up an extraordinary amount. Like a- a preposterous amount, where they have these clusters of girls who identify as trans in school where you get like eight, nine kids-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that just all in a friend group identify as trans. And she's like, "There is a very distinct possibility this is a social contagion."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that this is... That there are and with- without the denying that some people are trans 'cause there are, but it's like, how do you know now?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because this is one of those incredibly bizarre human issues where it's open to interpretation. Like, this guy, uh, or woman, whatever, with the giant rubber boobs can just say that they're a woman and everyone has to back off.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because of that... Because of a lack of an ability to prove something-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... now you're in this area where it's open to how someone feels.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that... You could just decide, well, that's how you get male prisoners-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who go into female prisons and impregnate inmates.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is so crazy. That's how you get male athletes who want to compete in women's sports and when the women complain, they get kicked off the team-
- 52:24 – 57:54
Title IX and Tulsi’s ‘Protect Women’s Sports Act’—and Biden’s rule changes
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. It's, um... Before I left Congress, I introduced a bill called the, uh, Protect Women's Sports Act.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is a woman?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Uh, exactly. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Um, I am a woman.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you a-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Just to make that clear.
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank you. Congratulations.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
I could be one, too. Don't, don't get cocky.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. I don't know. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) I'm gonna do my next podcast is "Shred the Rubber Boobs".
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I, I tell... I'm just, I'm gonna put myself out there and disagree wholeheartedly-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... with that, Joe Rogan.
- JRJoe Rogan
You are a bigot.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
I can't believe it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
You know-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's outrageous.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... I've been called worse things. (laughs) Um, we introduced this legislation. I introduced it with a Republican friend of mine named Markwayne Mullin from Oklahoma, and, uh, he's got, uh, six kids. Three of them are little girls. All of his kids wrestle. And the bill was very, very simple, in upholding the original intent of Title IX in, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you explain Title IX to people?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Title IX was passed, gosh, I think in the '70s, if I'm not mistaken. Um, and it was a huge landmark piece of legislation because it delineated... It, it provided a level playing field on the basis of sex, meaning males have opportunities, females deserve those same opportunities, whether it be in sports or in college, uh, in, um, and in all public-funded, in a public funding realm, essentially, th- where, where the federal government can impact it, it said there has to be a level playing field and equal opportunity. So people like my mom who grew up, she's very athletic, the only thing that was available to her in high school was, was cheerleading, and she did it, and she was great. But she would've liked the opportunity to be able to compete in other sports. Carla Esparza, I think is, is a more, uh, you know, modern day example. There were no girls, uh, wrestling teams in her high school. Uh, she got a scholarship to wrestle in college on a girls team, and obviously she has gone on to do amazing things. Um, so Title IX was created recognizing that difference on the basis of sex. Um, Democrats have championed Title IX and talked about this great accomplishment in passing this legislation for decades, and that's where it makes no sense. So our, our legislation basically just said, "Hey, we wanna uphold the original intent of Title IX in recognizing the biological differences between males and females." Period. They should not be competing against each other. Uh, the legislation didn't move forward for obvious reasons. Um, we were excoriated for having the audacity to uphold the original intent of Title IX, and-... now what we're seeing with the Biden administration is administratively, not even through passing legislation, they're trying to backdoor this move to change the rules around Title IX to include gender identity, rather than having it be on the basis of biological sex, to include gender identity, and threatening schools that they will withhold federal funding unless they adopt this rule change within the Biden administration. Again, not running through Congress, not allowing the people's voices to be heard, but trying to backdoor this through in, and, and, uh, making threats to publicly funded educational institutions as a means of, of, uh, trying to implement this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, why do you think they're doing that, and is that publicly supported? Because the only thing that makes sense is politically they would do that because that would help them in terms of an election. Why else would they do that?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
There are polls that have been done-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... that show not only a majority of Americans disagree with this, uh, but also a majority of Democrats disagree with this. And so, why they're doing it, they're-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... catering to, um, the, those ideological zealots within the Democratic Party and trying to placate them in their, uh, radical, uh, policies and their extremes, rather than actually standing up and saying, "You know what? No. This is science, this is biology, and this is what's right. And, oh, by the way, it's also poli- it would also be politically, uh, beneficial given where the vast majority of Democrats and Americans are on this."
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's just wild that no one's pushing back.
- 57:54 – 1:01:32
Tulsi’s turning point: leaving the Democratic Party and becoming Independent
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly. And that's, that's the danger of it is, the people in charge of the Democratic Party, whether they actually hold positions or they just are influential in the Democratic Party, uh, have created this cult-like atmosphere and fomented this fear, so much so that people who are really in a position to impact this, to stand up against it and say, "Hold on, guys. This is literally insane and needs to, needs to stop," they're too afraid to do so because of what the ramifications will be. Uh, the Democratic Party of the past, the Democratic Party that I joined doesn't exist anymore. The party that was, um, you know, the party of JFK, of Dr. Martin Luther King, the party of inclusivity, the big tent party that welcomed and encouraged this marketplace of ideas and conversations and people who held different views, the party of, uh, you know, that championed women and equality and the rights of people in our society. That party just, it doesn't exist anymore. And instead, we have a party that's being led by, by people who have gone insane with this ideological, uh, fanaticism. And there are a lot of different issues, a lot of different examples. You know, the whole issue of, of, uh, biology and, uh, the trans issue is just one of them. There are so many different others. You know, parents don't have a, you don't have a right to raise your kids now. You don't have a right to say what they're being taught in schools now. The state, the government, the u- the, the teachers' unions only, they have that right and responsibility. They're undermining families. Uh, they don't believe in the rule of law. It's, "Yeah, defund the police, the Supreme Court, we don't agree with them so they're illegitimate." There's so many different examples of this, this, um, i- the, these ideologues who have taken control of the Democratic Party, who don't actually care about the people. It's all about themselves, their power, and their maintaining control. And that's the real threat to our democracy that they pose, is they don't believe in freedom of speech, they don't believe in freedom of thought, they don't believe in freedom of religion. All they believe in is, you've got to buy into whatever they're selling at any given day. And, and like I said, not only... It's not enough to agree. You've got to go out there, you've got to march in the parade, you've got to carry the sign, you've got to scream and yell, and don't you dare even think about talking to Republicans. Don't, don't even think about working with Republicans because that, that directly undermines their, their authority. And, and frankly, Joe, this is something that I've, I've been, um, I've been trying to fight against within the Democratic Party back when I was vice chair of the DNC, uh, for years, and it's, it's gotten to a point where, um, those who have been in charge for a long time remain in charge, uh, are not willing to change. And, uh, and so I'm, I'm, I'm leaving the Democratic Party.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that this big announcement?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're leaving the Democratic Party?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I'm leaving the Democratic Party because I've tried to enact that change from within. It's not... I, I, I, I don't see the Democratic Party as being saveable. And I know that I can make an impact, uh-... more from the outside. And I, and, and frankly I just, I can't be associated and stand by, uh, this, this insanity that's been going on and continues to worsen day by day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you going to be an Independent?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
So that's how you're moving forward?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- 1:01:32 – 1:19:16
Why America stays stuck with two parties: spoilers, debates, and Electoral College reforms
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what is it about this country that is so politically married to having two teams, and two teams only? And how do we fix that? Because there i- there, there is very little room for someone who's a third party candidate to be taken seriously in this country. And when you do vote for a Libertarian, you do vote for an Independent, many people think of it as a protest vote.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Spoiler, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Or, or at the very least, you say, you know, "That, that's why I voted for Jo Jorgensen. That, that is me personally why I did." Because I was like, "This is ... I'm not voting for him and I'm not voting for her."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Fuck this." And then I'm not voting ... Or that was, with this one it was Biden actually. But that was also why I was voting for Gary Johnson. It was like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... "I'm not voting for her and I'm not voting for him."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
"I'll vote for that guy even if, if he doesn't know where Aleppo is."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like ... (laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) That's right, I forgot about that.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I don't ... That, that wasn't that big of a deal to me. That, to me, was like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It seems like ... I mean, it was a big deal at the time, but it seems like so minor now compared to, you know, our Vice President standing at the DMZ-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... saying, "We are great allies with North Korea." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What a fuck-up that was.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And that didn't even make the news.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh my gosh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like p- people barely talked about it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
"A great partnership with North Korea." Like what?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
North Korea? You're at the DMZ-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And not ... She didn't even stand there and be like, "I'm sorry, I misspoke."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, sometimes people, like you don't realize you're ... I do that all the time. Like Jamie will correct me all the time. I'll say something that I thought, I thought I said another thing-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- 1:19:16 – 1:26:38
Military-industrial complex and Ukraine: proxy war claims and nuclear-war risk
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think that the biggest challenge or one of the, uh, one, I should just rephrase that. One of the biggest challenges, I believe, is the influence of money. And when you look at, one of, Dave Smith was on the podcast recently, and we went over the defense budget. And-I had no idea it was that much. It's, it's such an insane-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... amount of money. How can decisions be made that are not influenced by that money when you're talking about whatever the- What, what was it? $1.7 trillion? That is a preposterously huge amount of money per year.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was t- the 2022 budget, apparently. What can be done to remove money from the equation of doing the right thing, doing the safe thing, doing the, the, the, the th- the thing that's gonna secure the future of America and put- put us in a good direction? It seems like money is so inexorably tied to all the political decisions that get made in this country, particularly when it t- has to do with foreign policy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you're talking about... And you have been a very outspoken critic of inter- interventionist, uh, foreign policy and wars that are unnecessary and that put lives in danger and costs incredible amounts of money, but enrich the coffers of all these corporations.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And that undermine our own-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... interests and security interests. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. And this is exactly what Eisenhower warned of when he was leaving office.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
The military-industrial complex. I mean, that is such a nefarious term. And to most people, it's sort of abstract. Like you hear that term, the military-industrial complex. Like you, if you go to the average person on the street, even a well-educated person, like, "Define that."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
What does that mean? Like where, what... How do they affect policy and change? And what's the defense budget? Like w- how much money are we talking about?
Episode duration: 2:16:41
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Transcript of episode 1w01QRhD3e0
