Joe Rogan Experience #1884 - Anthony Kiedis

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Anthony Kiedis 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Good to see you, man. What's happening?

Joe Rogan 0:14 How do you feel? What is really happening?

Anthony Kiedis 0:15 Your show was fucking great.

Joe Rogan 0:17 I- thank you.

Anthony Kiedis 0:18 I really enjoyed it.

Joe Rogan 0:19 I'm so happy to hear that. What that means to me is, even on a off night, we're still pretty damn good.

Anthony Kiedis 0:23 That was an off night?

Joe Rogan 0:25 Way off.

Anthony Kiedis 0:25 Really?

Joe Rogan 0:26 Bad sound. But-

Anthony Kiedis 0:28 Sound was bad?

Joe Rogan 0:29 For me.

Anthony Kiedis 0:30 Sounded good.

Joe Rogan 0:32 We have high standards.

Anthony Kiedis 0:33 (laughs) I guess. I mean, it was, it was excellent.

Joe Rogan 0:35 Thank you.

Anthony Kiedis 0:36 W- so what else was wrong? High s- the sound?

Joe Rogan 0:39 Well, I like to dance, and I like to get the, the mojo flowing-

Anthony Kiedis 0:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 0:44 ... at maximum f- photon speed.

Anthony Kiedis 0:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 0:47 And my knee was locked up, so I couldn't fully flow, which is disconcerting, and it actually throws my singing off as well.

Anthony Kiedis 0:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 0:57 But-

Anthony Kiedis 0:57 Well, we talked afterwards about your knee injury, but while you were on stage, I didn't notice anything. You moved great.

Joe Rogan 1:03 Mm. I can move better, but thanks. The good news for me is-

Anthony Kiedis 1:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06 ... I'm surrounded by Jon, Chad, and Flea, which is just, like, a, a huge uplifting energy circle, so. They carry me.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20 How did you injure your knee? Is it just from all the years of dancing on stage?

Joe Rogan 1:24 Pounding.

Anthony Kiedis 1:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Pounding onstage for 100 years, yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:27 You know Maynard from Tool? He's got a, uh, artificial hip.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:32 Just from stomping.

Joe Rogan 1:33 (laughs) From stomping?

Anthony Kiedis 1:34 From stomping onstage, he blew his fucking hip out.

Joe Rogan 1:37 I'm not surprised. What I am surprised is that Mick Jagger hasn't blown both of his hips out.

Anthony Kiedis 1:42 Oh, man. We saw him when he was at COTA, the Circuit of the Americas here in Austin. It was insane. For a- first of all, it was like a psychedelic experience just seeing him.

Joe Rogan 1:51 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:51 'Cause you can't believe, "That's really Mick Jagger up there."

Joe Rogan 1:54 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:54 Like, "That's the fucking Rolling Stones." They were incredible. And he's still dancing around. He's as old as Biden.

Joe Rogan 2:03 He's as old as- (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 2:05 Need to understand-

Joe Rogan 2:05 Wh- which is a official expression, by the way.

Anthony Kiedis 2:07 Yeah, I mean, that's- he's, like, commensurate. It's like, I think he's basically the same age, right? Like, what is Biden? Biden's like 78? And I think Mick Jagger is, like, 78 as well. I think he's in the neighborhood. Right? How old is he? You can ask your friend. I, I, I think- He's 79. ... it's because he's-

Joe Rogan 2:25 79.

Anthony Kiedis 2:25 He's 79.

Joe Rogan 2:26 79.

Anthony Kiedis 2:26 Geez.

Joe Rogan 2:26 He's so light.

Anthony Kiedis 2:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28 His bone structure, his anatomy is light.

Anthony Kiedis 2:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:32 And-

Anthony Kiedis 2:33 He's older.

Joe Rogan 2:33 ... he's written a song or two.

Anthony Kiedis 2:34 Y- oh yeah. He's older by four months or so. He's older than Biden? Yeah. That's insane.

Joe Rogan 2:39 As you said, he's older than Biden.

Anthony Kiedis 2:40 But meanwhile, he talks great. Hold on. No he's not, no he's not, I'm sorry. No? No, I misread that.

Joe Rogan 2:45 They're twins.

Anthony Kiedis 2:46 Biden's older by, like, s- eight months. Oh, okay, Biden's old- November of 42 versus July 23. Those eight months were a motherfucker. If they're eight months, there's a difference.

Joe Rogan 2:52 We'll see.

Anthony Kiedis 2:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:52 You and I shall see.

Anthony Kiedis 2:54 Hopefully we'll see.

Joe Rogan 2:55 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 2:55 If we're lucky.

Joe Rogan 2:56 We need those black-

Anthony Kiedis 2:57 How old are you now?

Joe Rogan 2:58 (clicks tongue) I am looking at 60.

Anthony Kiedis 2:59 Looking at it.

Joe Rogan 3:00 I'm looking at it.

Anthony Kiedis 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Two weeks away.

Anthony Kiedis 3:02 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:03 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 3:03 How's it feel?

Joe Rogan 3:05 (inhales deeply)

Anthony Kiedis 3:05 You look great.

Joe Rogan 3:06 I feel ... thank you. You look great too.

Anthony Kiedis 3:08 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yep.

Anthony Kiedis 3:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:10 Um, I don't know how old you are, but-

Anthony Kiedis 3:11 55.

Joe Rogan 3:12 Oh. Wow. You look real good.

Anthony Kiedis 3:14 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 3:15 Yeah. We could grapple later.

Anthony Kiedis 3:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:18 Um, it

Joe Rogan 3:20 feels wonderful. It feels so good. If I can, if I can do what I want to do for the next 20, 30 years, I'm just, hallelujah.

Anthony Kiedis 3:29 It's just a matter of the joints, the joints holding up.

Joe Rogan 3:32 I think they're gonna repair.

Anthony Kiedis 3:33 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 3:33 I think they're gonna repair. I went hard last night, and I feel better today than I did when I saw you a week ago.

Anthony Kiedis 3:38 Oh, well that's great. Did you get any treatments done on the knee or anything?

Joe Rogan 3:42 Osteopathy.

Anthony Kiedis 3:43 Osteopathy. What is that?

Joe Rogan 3:46 Osteopathy is a medicine, a hands-on medicine, where you have to study for 12 years before you can touch a patient. And they, they study anatomy, connectivity, all tissues, all bones. And this girl is French, Lucille, and she gets in there and she starts feeling the hamstrings connected to the knee bones, connected to the calf things, connected to the arch of your foot, and she just starts allowing your body to heal. So, she makes some space with her hands and her mind.

Anthony Kiedis 4:15 Her mind?

Joe Rogan 4:16 Oh, yeah. You have to be focused. There's a concentration to it.

Anthony Kiedis 4:20 Hm.

Joe Rogan 4:21 It's not the biggest part, but it's a part. You looking at me?

Anthony Kiedis 4:25 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:25 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 4:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:26 Anyway, I had a frozen shoulder. I went to every doctor in the world, nothing.

Anthony Kiedis 4:32 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 4:32 Three visits with Lucille.

Anthony Kiedis 4:35 You know what's great for shoulders is hanging from your, your hands.

Joe Rogan 4:39 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 4:39 Like a, a chin-up bar.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 4:40 It's really good for that.

Joe Rogan 4:41 Sounds good.

Anthony Kiedis 4:41 If you have frozen shoulders, impingements-

Joe Rogan 4:44 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 4:44 ... and things like that. And there's a theory that, you know, as we are primates, our ancestors swung from trees and h- hung on trees, and that the joint, uh, i- expresses itself better when it's, like, constantly put through a range of motion-

Joe Rogan 4:59 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 4:59 ... and hanging from things. And people, especially people with sedentary lifestyles that n- never really, uh, put that kind of like, where your, your body weight sort of stretches out your joint, your joints can kind of collapse, and they get impinged, and they, th- th- you know, they get kinda fucked up.

Joe Rogan 5:17 I, I hear that. That makes sense. We are primates, and it's also mental. Your brain depends on walking.

Anthony Kiedis 5:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:25 So, old school us, we would walk all day every day.

Anthony Kiedis 5:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:29 However-

Anthony Kiedis 5:29 Sure.

Joe Rogan 5:29 ... 20, 30 miles. And it's good for your brain. It keeps the-

Anthony Kiedis 5:32 It is.

Joe Rogan 5:32 ... Alzheimer's away.

Anthony Kiedis 5:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:34 You stop, you stop walking, and the brain kind of freezes up.

Anthony Kiedis 5:37 Yeah. That's true. Yeah, activity is one of the very best ways to fight off all sorts of, um, mental degeneration. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 5:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:47 And, and music.

Anthony Kiedis 5:49 Yeah, well that's why, you know, you look so great at 60, 'cause you're always bouncing around and moving, and you, you ... I feel bad for people that aren't, like, active.

Joe Rogan 5:58 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 5:58 You know, 'cause you, you, you w- will deteriorate to a point where you're not gonna be able to bring it back. If you can maintain, it's so much better to maintain than it is to try to rebuild.

Joe Rogan 6:09 (clicks tongue) Yeah.... agreed. People need a push, people need inspiration.

Anthony Kiedis 6:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:12 They need something that they love, and they need maybe somebody to do it with.

Anthony Kiedis 6:16 Right. They need something fun.

Joe Rogan 6:17 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 6:18 Yeah. That's, that's one of the key. Like, some people love running, some people love skiing. Like, whatever you love, like doing something that you really enjoy doing that keeps you active, I think is a, is a great key to that.

Joe Rogan 6:28 I need the push.

Anthony Kiedis 6:30 You've been ... I mean, when did you start mu- you've basically been doing music your whole life.

Joe Rogan 6:38 I feel like I started late, relatively speaking.

Anthony Kiedis 6:42 Relatively.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Yeah. So-

Anthony Kiedis 6:43 But you've been performing since you were how old?

Joe Rogan 6:46 83, which would put me at 21.

Anthony Kiedis 6:49 That's pretty young.

Joe Rogan 6:50 But my friends had been studying and playing and practicing music since they were 10, the guys that I hooked up with musically.

Anthony Kiedis 6:57 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:58 So, 21 is kind of like, you already have to have started music. Let's, like with a sport-

Anthony Kiedis 7:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:05 ... if you start at 21-

Anthony Kiedis 7:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:07 ... uh, it's kind of late in the game.

Anthony Kiedis 7:08 That's true.

Joe Rogan 7:09 So I just got lucky that I had been studying other things that fed into music, so I had something to say. I had rhythm, I had love for dance, love for sound, love for my friends. But I have been performing since I was 21.

Anthony Kiedis 7:26 That's a long time to be in the public eye, living that life.

Joe Rogan 7:30 Hmm. It is and it's, it's both wonderful and horrific at the same time.

Anthony Kiedis 7:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:37 The public eye, specifically.

Anthony Kiedis 7:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:40 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 7:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:40 Um, I don't think I would trade it because it comes with joy and perks and it's a unique experience. But I love my anonymity to pieces.

Anthony Kiedis 7:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:53 I love going out in the world and just not get-

Anthony Kiedis 7:56 Can you still do that?

Joe Rogan 7:59 Yes. Not often, but when I do, I love it.

Anthony Kiedis 8:03 When you can sneak by?

Joe Rogan 8:05 Uh, I'm not even sneaking. I just-

Anthony Kiedis 8:06 Not, I mean, you don't have to sneak, but I mean-

Joe Rogan 8:08 I think it's the anti-sneak approach that makes you invisible.

Anthony Kiedis 8:10 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:11 You go about your business and maybe you just blend in.

Anthony Kiedis 8:15 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:16 Los Angeles, California is the place where I get noticed and messed with the least.

Anthony Kiedis 8:24 'Cause they're so used to famous people there.

Joe Rogan 8:26 Jaded.

Anthony Kiedis 8:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:28 In a bubble, self-absorbed.

Anthony Kiedis 8:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:30 They could care less. The minute y- I walk around New York City, "Hey, Kidis!"

Anthony Kiedis 8:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:37 "Caught you on the TV!" Whatever.

Anthony Kiedis 8:40 Yeah, completely different sort of scenarios with giant masses of people. The New York mass of people is not connected to show business.

Joe Rogan 8:49 No. I- I-

Anthony Kiedis 8:50 So you have less of the self-obsession.

Joe Rogan 8:52 And they love seeing people that they relate to.

Anthony Kiedis 8:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:55 And they'll let you know about it.

Anthony Kiedis 8:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:56 They'll, they'll stop the car.

Anthony Kiedis 8:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 9:00 Yeah. But the Los Angeles scene. Yeah, that's, that's so true. That, that's one, one of the reasons why a lot of people that are famous actually enjoy living in Los Angeles, 'cause people are jaded.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 9:10 And you can, you know, it's kind of normal.

Joe Rogan 9:12 You can hang out.

Anthony Kiedis 9:13 People don't care, they leave you alone.

Joe Rogan 9:15 I agree. I miss you, uh, as a fellow resident. I understand. But,

Joe Rogan 9:23 yeah, L- LA geographically it's gorgeous. It's, it's, it's a harsh toke these days.

Anthony Kiedis 9:29 It's different, you know. I got out in, um ... We started looking in May of 2020, like right when, uh, right when they expanded, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve and it got to, uh, a month and a half, and I was like, "Oh, this is not going away."

Joe Rogan 9:45 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 9:46 And I started seeing that there was other places where they were taking a more sane approach. I immediately started looking.

Joe Rogan 9:52 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 9:53 But I had been thinking about getting out of LA anyway, just that I get anxiety about the sheer numbers of people. The sheer ... There's the traffic, the, the just the untenable volume of human beings was just ... Like, there's a certain level of anxiety that comes with that.

Joe Rogan 10:12 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 10:12 That when I would go to other places, like if I would go to Montana or go to, like, Utah, it was like, "Oh, this feels better. Like, this is relaxing. There's, like, less humans."

Joe Rogan 10:22 I hear that. You did live in the boondocks, did you not?

Anthony Kiedis 10:27 I lived a little outside. Like, I didn't live in the city-city, but, so it was nice that I got my little break there.

Joe Rogan 10:33 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 10:33 But it was always, I was always aware it was around the corner. It was always there. I mean, I was, I was living near, there was a lot of, like, owls and coyotes and, you know, those mountain lions. There's a lot of shit out where I live.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Those are my people.

Anthony Kiedis 10:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:47 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 10:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:48 Those are my people. You're naming my people.

Anthony Kiedis 10:50 Those are your creatures.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 10:52 Yeah. There's a lot of that here.

Anthony Kiedis 10:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:54 Yeah, the traffic thing is hell. I ride a motorcycle to circumvent as much of it as possible.

Anthony Kiedis 11:01 Do you really?

Joe Rogan 11:02 Every day.

Anthony Kiedis 11:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 11:04 Every day, unless it's freezing or raining.

Anthony Kiedis 11:07 That is a wild thing to do in Los Angeles, to ride a motorcycle, 'cause there's so many people on their phone-

Joe Rogan 11:12 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 11:12 ... and there's so many cars.

Joe Rogan 11:14 It's nor-

Anthony Kiedis 11:14 You just have to be defensive.

Joe Rogan 11:15 It's normal to me.

Anthony Kiedis 11:16 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 11:16 It's second nature.

Anthony Kiedis 11:17 Have you always ran- r- ridden a motorcycle?

Joe Rogan 11:20 Uh, I started off crashing mini bikes through backyard fences-

Anthony Kiedis 11:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:25 ... in Michigan, and I put it down for a while. And then sometime in the '80s, Chad Smith showed up on a Suzuki and I was like, "Let me try that big bike," and I was hooked.

Anthony Kiedis 11:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 11:38 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 11:38 So you just get around on motorcycles?

Joe Rogan 11:40 I do, on a cop bike.

Anthony Kiedis 11:41 Really?

Joe Rogan 11:42 A cop ... Yeah, it's the bike that the California Highway Patrol use.

Anthony Kiedis 11:47 So it's a big cruiser?

Joe Rogan 11:49 It's big, it has a windshield, it's fast. It handles like a magic carpet.

Anthony Kiedis 11:54 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 11:54 Um, yeah. I love it.

Anthony Kiedis 11:57 Wow.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 11:58 That's ... Do you have a car too, or do you only-

Joe Rogan 12:01 No, I have a couple of cars. Um, but it's a pain in the ass, like to go down the PCH and just-

Anthony Kiedis 12:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:07 ... wait for an hour to go somewhere.

Anthony Kiedis 12:09 That's the thing about LA too, you're allowed to split the lanes.

Joe Rogan 12:14 ... and people are starting to recognize, (clears throat) like, "Oh, there's a bike, I have to make space."

Anthony Kiedis 12:19 Yeah. Well, that's nice.

Joe Rogan 12:21 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 12:21 Some people are dicks, though. They just like-

Joe Rogan 12:23 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 12:24 ... scoot over so you can't go by.

Joe Rogan 12:27 I have moments. It's, it's also an opportunity to see where I'm at as a human being. Like, do I wanna kill these people or do I just wanna-

Anthony Kiedis 12:35 Forgive 'em.

Joe Rogan 12:36 ... just forgive 'em and carry on with my life.

Anthony Kiedis 12:39 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 12:39 Not worry about it. It's better.

Anthony Kiedis 12:41 It takes a little opportunity to just exercise that aspect of your thought.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Yeah, e- also in a car.

Anthony Kiedis 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:47 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 12:47 Oh, yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 12:49 Who am I?

Anthony Kiedis 12:50 Well, that's one of the nice things about here, like, people let you in. It's so different. They let you in the lane, they wave. It's like it's a different, like, they're more friendly. People f- feel, like, I think in Los Angeles, the problem is there's so many human beings that human beings become a bother. Like, "God, there's so many people." Whereas here, it's only like a million people, so it's like people are just a little bit more appreciative of each other. It's th- they don't, there's not that level of tension.

Joe Rogan 13:18 This is what I hear.

Anthony Kiedis 13:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:20 I had a conversation with guy on the way over here who's kind of investigating options. Texas nice, no taxes. And I was like, "Well, what do you like about it? What, what's your main attraction?" And he said, "People are kinder. People are more thoughtful."

Anthony Kiedis 13:36 Yeah, and I don't think that's something that people would necessarily associate with Texas.

Joe Rogan 13:41 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 13:41 But that's, they call it Texas-friendly. It's, like, literally how they describe it.

Joe Rogan 13:47 There is no LA-friendly.

Anthony Kiedis 13:49 Not really, unfortunately. There's, there's some friendly people. The, on the plus side is when you do meet a person who's friendly, you really appreciate it.

Joe Rogan 13:56 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 13:56 It's like a sunny day in Seattle.

Joe Rogan 13:58 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 13:59 You know?

Joe Rogan 13:59 Good point, good point.

Anthony Kiedis 13:59 It, it mean, they mean a lot to you.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Yup.

Anthony Kiedis 14:01 If you find a really kind, cool person in Los Angeles, it means a lot.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Well noted.

Anthony Kiedis 14:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 14:10 So what's the horrific, the horrific aspect of being famous for so long?

Joe Rogan 14:17 Uh, lack of anonymity.

Anthony Kiedis 14:19 So that's the big one for you?

Joe Rogan 14:20 Uh, yes.

Joe Rogan 14:22 I, I, I really have no complaints. I, I love my job so much. I don't know h- what I did to deserve it, but it is...

Anthony Kiedis 14:30 You're really good at it. That's what you did to deserve it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:34 (laughs) I do work hard, um, but I was taught how to work hard by my boys in the band, 'cause they all work hard, really hard.

Anthony Kiedis 14:42 They could tell.

Joe Rogan 14:42 They're, they're obsessed. They're obsessed with practicing and learning and pushing the boundaries and evolving and tapping into that which you cannot see or, or totally understand. Horrific. May- maybe I exaggerated with the word horrific, um...

Anthony Kiedis 14:59 It's a good word, though.

Joe Rogan 15:00 It's a good word. It's got the word horror. I know you like some horror.

Anthony Kiedis 15:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:06 Yeah, it's not really horrific if I think about it.

Anthony Kiedis 15:09 No.

Joe Rogan 15:09 I take that back.

Anthony Kiedis 15:10 It's just inconvenient sometimes, maybe.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Sometimes I'm shy and bashful and reclusive and I just wanna-

Anthony Kiedis 15:20 Chill.

Joe Rogan 15:20 ... chill, and people wanna take pictures or have me-

Anthony Kiedis 15:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:25 ... have me talk to their girlfriend on the phone, or...

Anthony Kiedis 15:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:28 Small price, small price. This brings me to my new philosophy in life, which I remind myself every day. Can I give it to you?

Anthony Kiedis 15:38 Yeah, please.

Joe Rogan 15:40 So two months ago, we were playing at the MetLife Stadium in New Jersey, big, beautiful stadium full of people excited to sing and dance, and these two Painter sisters from Texas, raised in Manhattan, brought their friend to the show. We're like, "Great. Come and we'll hook you up with tickets and passes. Come say hello, beautiful people." And the girl they brought was radiant in every aspect of the word, physically, beautiful, energy, kindness, just light. And all of my friends are like, "Who's that girl? That girl's amazing." Just a f- a friend of our Painter friends. And a week went by, and I opened the paper, and I saw this girl had died unexpectedly. One, 33-year-old actor/model/artist.

Anthony Kiedis 16:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:33 And she woke up and died, and they're not sure why, maybe sepsis. (clears throat) Who knows? Young people are dying these days. (clears throat) And I thought to myself, I woke up today and I complained about how long my room service took, how muggy it was outside, and the traffic, and, and I decided this, this girl h- was just a giver of a human being, and she got plucked. So I said to myself, "Don't be a bitch." Nothing to do with gender or animals.

Anthony Kiedis 17:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:11 Just bitchly-ness, selfishness-

Anthony Kiedis 17:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:13 ... self-obsessed, self-centered, whiny...

Anthony Kiedis 17:16 Weakness.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Yeah. And, and what do I have to complain about?

Anthony Kiedis 17:20 Right. None.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Very little, very little.

Anthony Kiedis 17:23 Uh, relatively speaking, it's almost like you can't complain.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Can't complain.

Anthony Kiedis 17:27 Yeah, you can't.

Joe Rogan 17:27 I mean, let's look around the world.

Anthony Kiedis 17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 Syria, Yemen, Ukraine.

Anthony Kiedis 17:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:33 On and on.

Anthony Kiedis 17:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:34 So every time I go there, which is daily, I wake up and I'm like, "Uh, where, where's my thing? And how come these people aren't doing what I want them to do?" The voice comes into my head, "Don't be a bitch."

Anthony Kiedis 17:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:45 So that's my new live by philosophy.

Anthony Kiedis 17:48 It's a good philosophy. It's, it's hard for people sometimes to have perspective, you know, 'cause your life is your life, and any little irritation, you know, if you just allow momentum to take you in that general direction, which is a lot of what people do, they sort of operate on momentum. They don't think, they just react, and then you, you lose perspective.

Joe Rogan 18:08 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 18:08 It's hard sometimes to pull it back, and that's, do you meditate at all?

Joe Rogan 18:13 I do meditate at all, not enough-

Anthony Kiedis 18:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:17 ... but I do, and I love it, and it's my go-to.

Anthony Kiedis 18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 And, uh, I believe in it.Rick Rubin actually shared the, the art of meditation with me when I was a kid, younger, early '90s. Um, he brought the TM Institute-

Anthony Kiedis 18:35 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:35 ... into his living room and offered the whole band an opportunity to learn. And we were so crass and obnoxious that we laughed through the entire lesson.

Anthony Kiedis 18:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:48 This, you know, East Indian guy's up there with a chalkboard pointing at sound waves and different transcendental meditation concepts, and we're just laughing obtrusively. Can't stop. But it wasn't because we didn't feel it or understand it or believe in it. It was just the presentation itself. But it stuck, and we got our mantras, and we got our practice, and I did it religiously for a while, and then I put it down. But now, whenever I feel like the, the monkey mind-

Anthony Kiedis 19:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:24 ... in a car, in a plane, in a train, in my bathtub, in a tiny little kids chair somewhere on the back porch, I'll take 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and it's profound.

Anthony Kiedis 19:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:37 You?

Anthony Kiedis 19:38 Yeah, I do. I do. Uh, I, I like to do it in different places. I do it, uh, a lot of times in the sauna. I like to do deep breathing exercises in the sauna so I'm kinda uncomfortable at the same time.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 19:50 And also, uh, like, I multitask. Kill two birds with one stone that way.

Joe Rogan 19:54 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 19:54 But it allows me to... Resetting, like, and just having time alone with your thoughts. Um, I have friends in show business that are never alone, and they're the most troubled, I, I find. Because they don't have space to just sit and just sort of put it all into perspective and bring yourself back to baseline and appreciate it.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 20:18 And sometimes you just constantly... Look what I was talking about momentum. That's a real problem with people, is that you- you're doing things and things are happening and you keep going, and then the stresses of these things compile and pile on, and you never have a chance to step back and go, "Wow, what a wild ride I'm on. This is incredible. This is amazing. I should be so thankful and so appreciative." Instead, you're just so caught up. My agent said, "What?"

Joe Rogan 20:42 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 20:42 "And what am I doing? Why do we have to be there then and dah, dah, dah." You have to shoo, bring it back to baseline, appreciate where you're at and say, "Wow, how lucky. How lucky, how lucky just to be a human in 2022. What a great time. We don't die of cholera." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:57 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 20:57 What a, what a, what a great time with all the medicine and fucking technology and, and all the... You know, there's a- obviously there's downsides to all that stuff too, but pretty fucking good time to be alive. What a great roll of the dice to be here, and to be an American in th- in this, this place where you can... You're free to pursue your go... You don't have to wear a head scarf. You're not, you're not, well, like, in a religious, uh, autocrat society where you're told what to do. W- which happens in 2022. You're, so you're in this place, as imperfect as it is, which p- provides you with an immense amount of freedom. We're fu- fucking so fortunate. So fortunate.

Joe Rogan 21:34 We're fortunate at this very moment.

Anthony Kiedis 21:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 21:36 However, Steve Van Zandt is required to wear a head scarf.

Anthony Kiedis 21:39 Oh, he has to.

Joe Rogan 21:40 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 21:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:40 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 21:41 That's part of his gig, though.

Joe Rogan 21:41 It's New Jersey.

Anthony Kiedis 21:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:42 So that's a law.

Anthony Kiedis 21:43 Well, he's-

Joe Rogan 21:43 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 21:44 You know. Well, seeing him on The Sopranos with the fucking wig on, I was like, "Wow."

Joe Rogan 21:48 Ooh.

Anthony Kiedis 21:49 That's pretty... He, he-

Joe Rogan 21:50 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 21:50 He was amazing. Isn't it amazing when someone's a, a really great musician, but also can act their ass off?

Joe Rogan 21:57 He did great. I think it was very custom for his-

Anthony Kiedis 22:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:00 ... sensibility. And he's a good musician. I respect him as a musician, no doubt. Not that he cares. But he's an even better musical historian.

Anthony Kiedis 22:11 Is he?

Joe Rogan 22:12 His radio show, Underground Garage?

Anthony Kiedis 22:14 Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:15 Oh my God.

Anthony Kiedis 22:16 I've heard some amazing-

Joe Rogan 22:17 He breaks it down. The players, the people, the producers, the eras, the cities.

Anthony Kiedis 22:23 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:24 The, the what led to what led to what. He's good.

Anthony Kiedis 22:28 I really appreciate musicians that have a deep appreciation for the history of music and, and other... Like, you know who's great about that? Henry Rollins.

Joe Rogan 22:37 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 22:37 That motherfucker loves music so much. He has this incredible stereo system in his house, this amazing, like, collection of records. And, you know, he has a radio show as well. I'm not sure if he's still doing it. But when I had him on the podcast to talk to him about his love of music and love of collecting records and everything.

Joe Rogan 22:56 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 22:56 Like, the- just the fucking excitement in his voice and his- the passion in his eyes, the way he describes these things. It's so infectious.

Joe Rogan 23:03 It's infectious. It's also a beautiful subject, historical subject to-

Anthony Kiedis 23:08 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:08 ... spend your life studying.

Anthony Kiedis 23:10 Well. Well, you're in it, right? You are a musician. But to someone observing it from the outside, like myself, it's one of the more fascinating aspects of human culture, is that people create sounds and th- you- that you, you create them with lyrics and you put it together in this way that literally acts as a drug.

Joe Rogan 23:34 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 23:34 Like, it makes people feel good.

Joe Rogan 23:37 That's why-

Anthony Kiedis 23:38 You know, there's something about that. There's something about it. When the music... Like, when a song comes on that you haven't heard in a long time, you know, like Midnight Rider, like the Allman Brothers. Like the begin-

Joe Rogan 23:51 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 23:51 ... doo, doo, doom, doom, da, doom. You're like, "Holy shit. That fucking song." Like, "Whoo!" You get-

Joe Rogan 23:57 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 23:57 It's a drug.

Joe Rogan 23:58 Yes. It-

Anthony Kiedis 23:59 It's a drug.

Joe Rogan 23:59 Well, literally. Your, your brain-

Anthony Kiedis 24:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 24:01 ... is releasing its serotonins and-

Anthony Kiedis 24:04 Yes. And it's, there's something that we, we've come to expect because it's a normal part of life. We all listen to music. It's... But there's moments where you can just step outside of it and realize, like, how amazing the creation of music is. It's so amazing.

Joe Rogan 24:23 That's why I became a musician, because of the high that I got from listening...... to Henry Rollins, Black Flag-

Anthony Kiedis 24:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 24:30 ... drinking black coffee, made me feel so alive, so full of everything, so drugged up. I wanna make people feel like that. Defunct made me dance like lightning bolts on the dance floor. I wanna make people feel like that. That was my number one motivation, and, and the love of my found family, my high school boys, just wanting to hang out with them. But more than anything, it was h- I heard The Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

Anthony Kiedis 25:02 Mm.

Joe Rogan 25:02 And I just wanted to roll down the street lighter than air. How do I make people feel like that? How can I be a part of something that makes people feel like floating down the street?

Anthony Kiedis 25:14 Hmm. It really is. It's, it's a drug.

Joe Rogan 25:19 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 25:20 It's a super positive, creative drug that makes you incredibly connected to the people that, that make it. You know, I mean, I was watching the, uh, I don't know if you've seen the Elvis movie, the new movie on Elvis?

Joe Rogan 25:33 Did not. I, I-

Anthony Kiedis 25:34 Pretty interesting.

Joe Rogan 25:35 I have my own movie of Elvis in my head that I didn't wanna change.

Anthony Kiedis 25:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:41 But go ahead.

Anthony Kiedis 25:41 I don't think it'll change it.

Joe Rogan 25:43 All right.

Anthony Kiedis 25:43 I mean, it's, you know, it's dramatizations. Obviously Tom Hanks is the Colonel. You're, you're seeing Tom Hanks.

Joe Rogan 25:49 That's decent casting.

Anthony Kiedis 25:50 Oh, it's great.

Joe Rogan 25:51 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 25:51 Oh, he's great in it. He's great in it. It's, it's, it's really good. It's really good. I mean, it leaves out a lot and kinda glosses over a lot of shit. Um, but you realize that the reaction that these people are having to his music, it's like... And, and everybody's like, "What the fuck is going on?" It's like they're all on drugs. Like all these women-

Joe Rogan 26:11 Mm.

Anthony Kiedis 26:11 ... are on drugs. They're screaming. They're throwing panties at him. And back then, there wasn't really someone like him before him. You know, so he comes around and they all freak out because it's a new drug.

Joe Rogan 26:25 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 26:25 And it's this new feeling that you get from this, this creation, this, you know, combination of artist, and music, and sounds with the... delivered by this one guy. And he's singing, "You ain't nothing but a hound dog." And they're all going, "Crack." It's wild.

Joe Rogan 26:38 That's what I have been.

Anthony Kiedis 26:39 Wild.

Joe Rogan 26:41 It was great. It took me so long to realize how good he was. Part of my, my fuel as a teenager and young 20s was just hate of other people's art. Like, "Ah."

Anthony Kiedis 26:54 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:55 "We'll show you. We'll make something different and better."

Anthony Kiedis 26:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Which is positive. It has to happen. You have to rebel against that which has come before you at a certain point.

Anthony Kiedis 27:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:05 But as I got older, I realized this man is the real deal, as was Little Richard-

Anthony Kiedis 27:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:12 ... as were The Everly Brothers, as were all the boys that led up to Elvis.

Anthony Kiedis 27:16 Sure.

Joe Rogan 27:16 (clears throat) Flea and I went to Graceland in the early '80s. We were on tour. We were in a van. We hadn't slept on a bed for months. We, all we had was the leather jackets on our back and nothing else. But we were like in Memphis playing a show, you know, probably in a barn or something. And we're like, "Didn't Elvis have a house here? Can't we go, like, go walk through his house?" So we went to Graceland when it was not, uh, commercialized. It was a very small little tour. You could walk right through the house into his cars, the garage. There were no restrictions. And I went in there and I was so obnoxious-

Anthony Kiedis 27:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:59 ... and so horrible 'cause all these people were just in awe of every little element of Elvis's life. I was like, "Isn't this where he took a shit on the toilet and, like, OD'd on pills and..." 'Cause I was just a little idiotic punk rocker-

Anthony Kiedis 28:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:15 ... who had no broader sense of greatness and how people might be relating to this guy.

Anthony Kiedis 28:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:23 It's just a, a stupid little memory I feel embarrassed about, but that's who I was at the time.

Anthony Kiedis 28:30 Well, that's so normal for young artists to hate on art that they think is uncool or commercial or derivative.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 28:41 Like that was the knock on Elvis. He was d- derivative of Black culture. But what's he gonna do? That's what he likes. You know, he's like, uh, he's affected and influenced by those people and he's creating his own music. Like what is he supposed to do? Not do it? Obviously people loved it. It was amazing.

Joe Rogan 28:57 You-

Anthony Kiedis 28:57 I mean, uh, but I, I get the resentment from those artists. I understand that. But it's just there's a thing from young people coming up where you just wanna, you wanna hate on the things that you think are uncool,

Anthony Kiedis 29:10 you know?

Joe Rogan 29:10 We, we made a, a career out of that for a couple of years.

Anthony Kiedis 29:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:15 Um, but as far as, like, borrowing and using culture that you love, which I, you know, can be construed as appropriation, I'm all for it. I want to be appropriated and I think that's what culture is for.

Anthony Kiedis 29:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Enjoying, and loving, and learning, and taking, and assimilating.

Anthony Kiedis 29:37 Yeah. It should be that.

Joe Rogan 29:39 We, we went to a... Yeah, it should be that. I wanna dress like you 'cause you look great.

Anthony Kiedis 29:43 I mean, it should be that with art, with food, with everything, with architecture.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Yeah, appropriate on.

Anthony Kiedis 29:48 Yeah. I mean, that's, that's... Literally we are, are building on the backs of the people that came before us. All of us are in everything we do. In the way we talk, in literature, in everything. We, we build upon the people that came before. And this just, this idea of cultural appropriation being a negative thing, to me, is preposterous. Like it's, it's a respect. There's no... You don't culturally appropriate things that you don't love.

Joe Rogan 30:16 (laughs) It's a love.

Anthony Kiedis 30:17 You love those things, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:19 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 30:19 If you're cooking Mexican food and you happen to be Dutch-

Joe Rogan 30:22 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 30:22 ... like who gives a shit, man? It's...

Joe Rogan 30:23 That's not gonna be good Mexican, but yes, who gives a shit?

Anthony Kiedis 30:25 It might be.

Joe Rogan 30:26 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 30:27 Who's that guy? Rick Bayless?... Skip Bayless's brother.

Joe Rogan 30:31 What?

Anthony Kiedis 30:31 Right? Skip Bayless's brother. Rick Bayless is like one of the premier Mexican food chefs in the world. And he's an American. And people shit on him because this guy has, like, this deep love of Mexican cuisine. It's very infectious.

Joe Rogan 30:48 (laughs) Don't shit on him, please.

Anthony Kiedis 30:49 He makes all... I mean, not physically. He makes all these videos and he talks about... I mean, he's like famous. He's got a restaurant in Chicago that's like this famous Mexican restaurant. This is the guy. But this guy, he's like super into Mexican food. Is that his, uh, Instagram?

Joe Rogan 31:04 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 31:04 Rick_Bayless.

Joe Rogan 31:07 Mexican food.

Anthony Kiedis 31:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:07 So it's really all about the burrito. Can he make a good burrito?

Anthony Kiedis 31:10 I bet he can make anything, man.

Joe Rogan 31:11 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 31:12 Like he... That fucking guy loves Mexican food. I mean, but it's real. It's a real love. Like, what do you want him to do? Not do it?

Joe Rogan 31:19 I want him to do it.

Anthony Kiedis 31:19 So don't... Yeah, but ima- imagine people that are mad at him. Like, "Don't do what you love because you weren't born-"

Joe Rogan 31:25 It's what you love.

Anthony Kiedis 31:25 "... on the same patch of dirt-"

Joe Rogan 31:26 Nope.

Anthony Kiedis 31:26 "... as the people." But come on, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 31:28 No, I love appropriating.

Anthony Kiedis 31:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:29 I've, I've, I've been doing it my whole life and I love it. I'll never stop. We went to a, a Native American reservation Wednesday, last Wednesday, to play a show. And about nine months ago, we were putting out all this music and Flea had been to a, a pow-wow. And he was like, "The dancing blew me away. They're so dedicated. They're so beautiful, so artful." He's like, "We gotta get to a reservation and play music." I was like, "Great idea. Let's do it." So it finally came to pass last Wednesday, and, uh, somehow we chose the Hoopa Tribe in Northern California, in Hoopa Valley, California. And we arrive and it's a school gymnasium and it's a free concert and all of our equipment is there, and it's just cool people. They're very poor and very isolated, and we just wanted to go rock out for them. But the first thing they did was give us all this cool stuff that they made, which is Native American gear.

Anthony Kiedis 32:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:38 And they wanted us to wear it. They're not worried about appropriation. We could sing songs all day long about our take, like my band, on their experience. They love it. If we get it right, if we get it wrong, they just love that we care.

Anthony Kiedis 32:52 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:53 And it was the best show of the year for us, 'cause nobody paid. It was kids in a school gymnasium in the middle of nowhere. Surreal. They didn't believe we were coming.

Anthony Kiedis 33:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:05 They were like, "We don't believe it."

Anthony Kiedis 33:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:07 "Why? Why us?" We're like, "Uh, we chose you. Let's just have fun."

Anthony Kiedis 33:12 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 33:13 But they, they definitely defied the concept of appropriation, like right off the bat. "Here's our stuff. Please, please wear it."

Anthony Kiedis 33:22 Well, I think that's, that's great. Like, they loved the fact that you appreciated their culture.

Joe Rogan 33:28 We love the culture. We love it. And, you know, people are people. Um, I don't care what class you come from, what race you come from, what gender you come from. People are people. You're gonna be assholes and you're gonna be amazing people. Just people are people.

Anthony Kiedis 33:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:46 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 33:47 Yeah, and the variables, the v- the differences. That's one of the cooler things.

Joe Rogan 33:51 Of course.

Anthony Kiedis 33:52 Yeah, I mean, w- I don't want everybody to assimilate-

Joe Rogan 33:54 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 33:54 ... and become one thing, but I, I do love the fact there are so many vari- there's so much variety of types of cultures. There's so much-

Joe Rogan 34:03 Thank God.

Anthony Kiedis 34:04 ... dif- Thank God. It's one of the cooler things about humans. There's so much different wa- there's so many different ways to live life.

Joe Rogan 34:12 It's one of the cooler things about the USA.

Anthony Kiedis 34:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:15 That, that was our secret weapon to being-

Anthony Kiedis 34:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 ... a culturally interesting place-

Anthony Kiedis 34:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:21 ... th- that invented things like jazz and the blues and rock and roll.

Anthony Kiedis 34:24 Standup comedy.

Joe Rogan 34:26 Standup comedy.

Anthony Kiedis 34:27 Yeah. It's an American art

Anthony Kiedis 34:29 form.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Yes, because we have the great confluence of everybody.

Anthony Kiedis 34:33 Mm-hmm. Everybody together.

Joe Rogan 34:35 Everybody.

Anthony Kiedis 34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:37 I, I love all these other countries we visit on tour, but it's one flavor. It's primarily one flavor. And then you get here and it's the appropriated, assimilated melting pot.

Anthony Kiedis 34:49 Yeah, it really is. It's a wild place to be. We're very fortunate in that regard. I mean, even Texas barbecue.

Joe Rogan 34:57 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 34:57 Texas barbecue comes from Germany.

Joe Rogan 35:00 What?

Anthony Kiedis 35:00 Yeah. It's Germans.

Joe Rogan 35:02 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 35:02 Ger- the Germans that moved to this part of Texas, they, uh, smoked their meats and they, they, uh, they changed it a little bit and adapted it and it ultimately became Texas barbecue. But like Texas barbecue, like brisket.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 35:17 Like, brisket is a cheap cut of meat. Brisket was for poor people. And so, you know, everybody... The expensive cuts of meat, so like T-bones and rib eyes, right?

Joe Rogan 35:25 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 35:26 Well, brisket, they had to figure out how to cook it and make it edible. And 'cause it's a tough... You know, brisket is like the, the, the below the ribcage, like chest area. It's like a tough-

Joe Rogan 35:39 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 35:40 ... like kind of r- you know, like bristly v- not that much fat in it. And so they figured out cooking it slowly over low heat and doing it with smoke.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 35:51 And that's how they created Texas brisket, which is now like the preferred meat. You go to a barbecue, everybody wants the brisket.

Joe Rogan 35:58 I got introduced to brisket through the Jewish community.

Anthony Kiedis 36:01 Ah, so they love it too. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:02 I always, I always thought it was Jewish. I didn't even realize it was a German-

Anthony Kiedis 36:06 German.

Joe Rogan 36:06 ... Texas barbecue thing.

Anthony Kiedis 36:08 Yeah. Well, I mean, that's different chains of it, right? That's what's interesting. Like corned beef and, you know, like, uh, pastrami. Very Jewish, right?

Joe Rogan 36:17 (laughs) Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 36:17 And that's their, their way of cooking that food. You know, and, uh, if you go to, uh, Montreal, they, they have s- they call it smoked meat. You know, and you get, uh, like smoked meat sandwiches and it's basically like pastrami and corned beef, and they have their version of it up there. It's delicious.

Joe Rogan 36:35 Have you considered starting a...... a, a wild animal barbecue

Joe Rogan 36:41 establishment?

Anthony Kiedis 36:42 Y- it's so funny that you say that, 'cause I actually have. I actually talked to, uh, my friend, Phillip Franklin Lee, who's a, uh, he's a, a Michelin star chef who, uh, he started the, um, this place, uh, Sushi Bar ATX and now he runs, uh, Sushi By Scratch, which is literally the most amazing sushi I've ever had in my life.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 37:02 And, uh, he's got a new burger place out here that he just opened. What is it called? Not A Chance Burgers? Is that what it's called?

Joe Rogan 37:09 Not A Damn Chance, yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 37:09 Not A Damn Chance Burgers.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 37:11 Fantastic chef, and he and I actually talked about that 'cause one of the things about Texas, as opposed to, um, most other states is that you can actually sell wild game here, because, um, w- wild game that's not indigenous to Texas, uh, they have a lot of, um, introduced species. Like, there's i- an insane amount of animals that they've introduced into private ranches in Texas-

Joe Rogan 37:38 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 37:38 ... that have come from Africa and India. And, like, animals that are, like, endangered in other countries are prevalent here.

Joe Rogan 37:46 (inhales deeply)

Anthony Kiedis 37:46 Like oryx, like a scimitar oryx, it's very endangered, I think... Where are they from? From India or Africa? They're very endangered wherever they're from. Here, they're common, y-

Joe Rogan 37:56 Sounds like a deer.

Anthony Kiedis 37:57 It's like a, it's an, like an antelope.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 38:00 It's like, uh, they're, they're wild-looking creatures. Let's pull up a scimitar o- it's like, almost like a... It looks like it's kind of in the goat family or something. They're, they're crazy-looking things. Scimitar oryx.

Joe Rogan 38:13 North Africa.

Anthony Kiedis 38:13 Africa?

Joe Rogan 38:14 North.

Anthony Kiedis 38:14 Well, N- North Africa. L- look at that thing. That is a c- wild-looking animal, right?

Joe Rogan 38:20 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 38:21 Well, in, uh, Texas, they're common.

Joe Rogan 38:23 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 38:24 A lot of people, a lot of people have 'em, but it, wherever the fuck, what part of North Africa they're from, there's more tigers in captivity in Texas-

Joe Rogan 38:32 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 38:32 ... in private collections-

Joe Rogan 38:33 How many?

Anthony Kiedis 38:34 ... than there are in all of the wild of the world.

Joe Rogan 38:37 What's that number?

Anthony Kiedis 38:37 Thousands.

Joe Rogan 38:38 Thousands?

Anthony Kiedis 38:39 Thousands.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 38:39 I think it's somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000. There you go.

Joe Rogan 38:43 There you go.

Anthony Kiedis 38:43 I got one on my arm too, bro.

Joe Rogan 38:44 Yes, Year of the Tiger.

Anthony Kiedis 38:46 I have, uh, a tiger with, uh, Miyamoto Musashi from The Book of Five Rings.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 38:52 Do you know who that is?

Joe Rogan 38:53 I don't.

Anthony Kiedis 38:54 (clicks tongue) He's a-

Joe Rogan 38:54 He sounds Japanese.

Anthony Kiedis 38:55 ... samurai from the 1400s-

Joe Rogan 38:57 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 38:57 ... who, uh, defeated 62 men in one-on-one combat, and he wrote a book on strategy that I read when I was a teenager-

Joe Rogan 39:07 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 39:07 ... when I was doing martial arts competitions.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Cool.

Anthony Kiedis 39:09 It's called The Book of Five Rings, and it sort of shaped my philosophy in many ways of, on life-

Joe Rogan 39:16 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 39:16 ... because as a samurai, he believed that to be the best sword fighter, you had to be balanced. You had to do calligraphy and poetry-

Joe Rogan 39:27 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 39:27 ... and art, and you had, you couldn't have any, like, holes in your game, your mental game, your spiritual game, and you...

Joe Rogan 39:34 I like that.

Anthony Kiedis 39:35 And he had a statement that, he had a thing that he wrote that carried me throughout my whole life. It's, "Once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in all things." And the idea is the way of sword fighting was much like the way of carpentry, was much like the way of art. You see what the way is. It's like, get out of your own way-

Joe Rogan 39:58 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 39:58 ... and see the path to greatness, see the path to creation, and that you can find it in all things. So once you see it, once you truly understand it, you're not bullshitting yourself, you're not filled with ego, you're not filled with false bravado and fake confidence, get out of that. Once you see the path, you'll see it in everything. It's like you-

Joe Rogan 40:18 Love it.

Anthony Kiedis 40:18 ... see a pattern, and that pattern is of creation, and of, and, uh, I think you recognize that. It's one of the things that I love about great things. When I see something great, whether it's g- great piano playing or someone who's great at chess or someone's gr-... I love seeing the path.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 40:36 And seeing someone who just, like, finds the thing to express whatever the energy inside of them is.

Joe Rogan 40:43 You do have to get out of your own way.

Anthony Kiedis 40:44 Gotta get outta your own way.

Joe Rogan 40:45 You really do.

Anthony Kiedis 40:46 And people that don't get out of their own way, it's so sad. Like, I have friends that don't get out of their own way. I'm like, "Oh, I wish I could tell you how to do that."

Joe Rogan 40:54 Did I see your man in the lobby? The Book of Five Rings chap?

Anthony Kiedis 40:58 Um, oh, the-

Joe Rogan 41:00 Is he, is he pictured?

Anthony Kiedis 41:00 The armor?

Joe Rogan 41:01 Uh, it's a-

Anthony Kiedis 41:02 There's a, there's a, there's a painting, a Greg Overton samurai painting-

Joe Rogan 41:05 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 41:05 ... but it's not necessarily Musashi.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Oh, okay.

Anthony Kiedis 41:07 This is, (zipper unzips) this is Musashi. That's him.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 41:16 That's him with the tiger.

Joe Rogan 41:17 Yeah. Did he study animals?

Anthony Kiedis 41:20 No, it's just, I just-

Joe Rogan 41:21 To figure out there-

Anthony Kiedis 41:22 My, uh, my buddy, Aaron DellaDova, who's the, uh, tattoo artist that did that, he came up with this design just like...

Joe Rogan 41:29 It's nice to have a tiger.

Anthony Kiedis 41:30 Yeah. Tigers are always cool.

Joe Rogan 41:33 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 41:33 But anyway, Texas has-

Joe Rogan 41:34 So circling back.

Anthony Kiedis 41:35 You can get wild game here-

Joe Rogan 41:37 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 41:37 ... and you could sell it. So there's a lot of restaurants here. There's, like, a great place called The Lonesome Dove here in Austin and, uh, Lonesome Dove actually serves wild game, Texas wild game. They serve, like, uh, they have, like, rattlesnake sausage.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 41:51 And, um-

Joe Rogan 41:52 I would eat that.

Anthony Kiedis 41:53 Nihal guy, which is, uh, an Indian animal. It's really cool-looking. Have you ever seen a Nihal guy?

Joe Rogan 41:58 Mm-mm.

Anthony Kiedis 41:59 Oh. Show that. I'm actually going hunting for one of these things in the, with the television show Meat Eater in December, but, uh, a Nihal guy is this enormous, like, 700-pound crazy antelope-looking thing. Look at that. That's a Nihal guy.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Looks meaty.

Anthony Kiedis 42:16 Isn't that wild-looking?

Joe Rogan 42:17 Buff. Powerful.

Anthony Kiedis 42:20 You were a vegetarian for a while, right?

Joe Rogan 42:22 So on the, on the subject of food-

Anthony Kiedis 42:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:25 ... I love food.

Anthony Kiedis 42:26 Me too.

Joe Rogan 42:26 I love eating food.

Anthony Kiedis 42:28 Who doesn't?

Joe Rogan 42:29 I love it. I eat it all day, and I really respect everybody's choice to find their path for eating.... I, I, I don't impose my concepts of eating on other people. I want everyone to find what, what works for them, 'cause we're all different.

Anthony Kiedis 42:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:46 We all have different metabolisms, different genetics.

Anthony Kiedis 42:49 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 42:51 And it has been a fantastic journey of trying everything under the sun. For the longest time, I just ate whatever you had. I was so poor and so hungry, whatever you're cooking, that's what I ... That's my diet. And then, when I got to the point where I started learning about food, I met a girl and her family was vegetarian. And she was so full of love, ionic sky, love, and light, and just a good person, and her whole vibe in the, the family house. I was like, "I'll try that." So, I did the vegetarian for a few years, got poor again and started eating whatever was available to sustain, and then I tried everything, pescatarian, vegan, wh- and m- my body just never totally vibed with any of those things perfectly. Then I met this girl, Terri Cochran, who's a scientist and a nutritionist, and she studies your genes, 23andMe-

Anthony Kiedis 43:54 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:55 ... takes days to study your genes, and plans out your food based on your genetics. And for me, it was wild freaking animals.

Anthony Kiedis 44:05 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:05 That's what I was resonating with. She's like, "I want you to eat alligator, elk, moose, kangaroo." I was like, "Really?" She's like, "Yes, all the injuries you're having are gonna sort out for you." I was like, "I'll try it." And the pandemic hit. I went to Kauai. I hired a chef who could source all of those things, half of these pictures you're showing, antelope, and I had no choice but to eat it, 'cause that's all that was in my fridge. The dude would cook and leave me food. I felt the best I've ever felt in my life. The strongest, the fastest, the sharpest, mental clarity. So, that's my diet now.

Anthony Kiedis 44:47 Well, it's the most nutrient-dense food on earth. If you get wild game, it's, it has the most protein, the most vitamins. When you, we're talking about like a piece of elk meat, if you look at it, it's a deep red color.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Very red.

Anthony Kiedis 45:03 And it's just rich with protein and amino acids. It's fantastic for you.

Joe Rogan 45:08 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 45:09 You know, and I, I mean, and I know a lot of people ethically, they don't like the idea of eating animals. I understand it. I, I get where you're coming from.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Yeah, I understand that too. I love animals.

Anthony Kiedis 45:18 Yeah, I do too.

Joe Rogan 45:18 Those, that's who I relate to.

Anthony Kiedis 45:20 The thing about animals is, they don't live forever, and the way they die in the wild is horrific in comparison to the way I get them. The, the way they die without me is way worse, and they're not gonna live forever.

Joe Rogan 45:33 Nope.

Anthony Kiedis 45:34 They, they have, if they're lucky, they get to 10, 11, 12. Crazy if they get to 12.

Joe Rogan 45:39 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 45:40 And most of the time, they're getting t- torn apart by animals, or they freeze to death.

Joe Rogan 45:46 And the farm world is no bueno.

Anthony Kiedis 45:48 No bueno.

Joe Rogan 45:48 No, it's not good for us, not good for them.

Anthony Kiedis 45:50 No, except regenerative agriculture. When people are doing it correctly and they're allowing these animals to roam free on grass-fed farms-

Joe Rogan 45:58 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 45:59 ... and, you know, there's, there's ways that people do it. Like, there's a guy named Joel Salatin, who's got this, uh, place called, uh, Polyface Farms, and he is, uh, an expert and a proponent of regenerative agriculture, where the manure from the cows is the, is the fertilizer for the plants.

Joe Rogan 46:17 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 46:18 And the pigs, they roam free, and they, they chew up the ground to get roots, and then the chickens come along, and it's like all these animals, they have this symbiotic relationship with the Earth-

Joe Rogan 46:29 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 46:29 ... and that it's, it's actually carbon neutral when it's done correctly.

Joe Rogan 46:33 Well done.

Anthony Kiedis 46:34 The, the real question is, though, and this is what I, I've asked a lot of people this, and I can't really get a square answer. It's like, is that sustainable for enormous populations? It doesn't seem like it is.

Joe Rogan 46:46 I think nature has a way of creating sustainability. And if you study nature, which that sounds closer to-

Anthony Kiedis 46:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:52 ... it might be more sustainable than we think. Population is

Joe Rogan 46:57 a, is a beast.

Anthony Kiedis 46:58 Population's a beast. That's the, the issue is, what's unnatural is a city. When you can jam 20 million people into an area that's not growing anything other than weed.

Joe Rogan 47:07 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 47:07 It's kind of weird.

Joe Rogan 47:08 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 47:09 It's kind of weird. I mean, you're stuffing all these people into this area, as very, like Los Angeles, for example, very little water, you know, and everybody's like condensed, and they're all getting food from somewhere. Well, they're, they're not growing it.

Joe Rogan 47:20 They're getting the weed too.

Anthony Kiedis 47:21 Everything has to be shi- Yeah. Everything has to be shipped in, so you got all this, you know, the carbon that's coming from all the trucks-

Joe Rogan 47:27 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 47:27 ... that are shipping things in.

Joe Rogan 47:29 My favorite is the wild boar.

Anthony Kiedis 47:31 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 47:32 I love it to pieces. And really, it comes down to, what are these animals eating? Because that, that's-

Anthony Kiedis 47:37 Yes.

Joe Rogan 47:38 ... what makes their composition.

Anthony Kiedis 47:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:40 So, you look at a wild boar, like you said, they're eating roots and leaves and grubs and all this good stuff off the forest floor.

Anthony Kiedis 47:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:49 And that's turning their meat into something beautiful.

Anthony Kiedis 47:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:53 And I honor their life and I, and I respect the fact that I'm taking a life, but they don't live forever, and you're taking the body, you're not taking the spirit.

Anthony Kiedis 48:04 The thing about wild boar here in Texas, and in California as well, they have to shoot them, 'cause they're an invasive species. They brought them in, in, you know, when the, uh, Europeans came, like in, in the w- whatever year they brought them over to this country.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 48:19 And now, now they're everywhere. There's millions of them in Texas. And they, they literally have to hunt them. They have to, because there's no natural predators, or n- certainly not enough. I mean, there only natural predators really are mountain lions. And there's no way mountain lions can keep up with the way they breed. They, their, their gestation period is, I think, it's like three months, three weeks, and three days. So, they can, um, in a perfect world, they can have three cycles of gestation every year. So, they could have three litters a year.

Joe Rogan 48:52 They're making babies.

Anthony Kiedis 48:53 Yeah, it's crazy how many they make. And they just go, from the time they're six months old. When they're six months old, they can give birth.... which is crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:03 A little young.

Anthony Kiedis 49:04 And they're just shooting out piglets.

Joe Rogan 49:05 Yep. Yep.

Anthony Kiedis 49:06 And those little piglets are running around destroying crops, and there's no natural predators.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Well, let me know when you start your wild game barbecue joint.

Anthony Kiedis 49:14 All right, buddy.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Please.

Anthony Kiedis 49:15 I will. I wish... If you lived out here, man-

Joe Rogan 49:17 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 49:17 ... I'd supply you with food. I have a lot of meat. I, I hook up a lot of my friends with, uh, elk meat.

Joe Rogan 49:23 It's surprisingly attainable. I got elk coming down the pike. I have a, a little, tiny Irish chef called Anya, and if I say any animal to her, like, "I'd like to try some alligator," she's like, on the phone getting the alligator-

Anthony Kiedis 49:38 Ah.

Joe Rogan 49:38 ... sent. It works.

Anthony Kiedis 49:40 Nice.

Joe Rogan 49:41 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 49:41 Yeah. I alligator hunted in Florida this year.

Joe Rogan 49:44 You hunted?

Anthony Kiedis 49:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:46 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 49:46 It's heavy.

Joe Rogan 49:47 I respect it. I can't do it. I'm too much of a punk to be able to

Joe Rogan 49:51 do it.

Anthony Kiedis 49:51 You're not a punk. You just don't want to do it. It's okay. I, I get it. I wouldn't want to do it either if I didn't... But I just... I was either going to become a vegan, or I was be- going to become a hunter.

Joe Rogan 50:03 Hmm. Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 50:03 That was my... Those were my two paths.

Joe Rogan 50:05 You should be able to kill the animal.

Anthony Kiedis 50:06 Yeah. That's what I had... I had seen too many of those factory farming videos, and I was like, "Fuck all that." And, um, and my friend, Steve Rinella, from the show, Meat Eater, that I was talking to you about, he took me hunting, and I actually shot that deer right there. That's the first animal I ever shot. That, that skull on the table-

Joe Rogan 50:24 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 50:24 ... it's a mule deer-

Joe Rogan 50:25 That's a mule.

Anthony Kiedis 50:25 ... that we shot. Yeah. Well, it's a deer. It's called-

Joe Rogan 50:28 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 50:28 ... a mule deer.

Joe Rogan 50:28 Yeah, y- mule deer.

Anthony Kiedis 50:29 Um, and it's, uh, from Montana. We shot that, and, uh, I ate it, and I was like, "Okay, that makes sense. This makes sense." The experience is d- it's difficult to attain.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 50:39 You have to work really hard for it. You're hiking in the mountains. You have to play the wind. You have to be smart, you know? There's a lot going on, and then the reward for it is, you know, a mule deer like that was like a 250-pound animal.

Joe Rogan 50:52 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 50:52 So I'm eating that for a couple months.

Joe Rogan 50:53 You've got some freezers.

Anthony Kiedis 50:54 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 50:56 (laughs) No, I respect that, and I wish I had it in me to come face to face with the creature that I'm eating, that I'm taking. I just haven't found it yet.

Anthony Kiedis 51:05 You don't have to. You don't have to.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Especially an alligator. I love those guys.

Anthony Kiedis 51:09 I fucking hate those things.

Joe Rogan 51:10 I love them.

Anthony Kiedis 51:11 I hate those things, 'cause when I was a little kid, I used to live in Florida.

Joe Rogan 51:13 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 51:13 I lived in Gainesville, and there was a lady that, uh, lived in my neighborhood, and her dog got snatched. She was walking her dog, and this fucking alligator comes over and snatches her dog.

Joe Rogan 51:22 There's no convenient market for the alligator.

Anthony Kiedis 51:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:25 He's got, he's got to find his dog every day. We can walk into a shop. They cannot.

Anthony Kiedis 51:30 That's true, but fuck them (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 51:33 I love them.

Anthony Kiedis 51:33 They eat kids, man. They eat everything.

Joe Rogan 51:36 They should.

Anthony Kiedis 51:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:36 They've been, they've been, they've been here 500 million years-

Anthony Kiedis 51:41 They have.

Joe Rogan 51:41 ... second only to the damn shark.

Anthony Kiedis 51:43 They make good belts.

Joe Rogan 51:45 I can't argue that, but-

Anthony Kiedis 51:46 I buy alligator leather whenever I can. I don't like them.

Joe Rogan 51:50 I like them. I love them.

Anthony Kiedis 51:51 Really?

Joe Rogan 51:51 And I love them-

Anthony Kiedis 51:52 I find them to be-

Joe Rogan 51:52 ... in my tacos, too.

Anthony Kiedis 51:53 ... soulless, evil creatures-

Joe Rogan 51:55 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 51:55 ... that are killing machines.

Joe Rogan 51:58 This guy raised a baby alligator on his couch watching, you know, NFL games or something.

Anthony Kiedis 52:02 Yeah, it's gonna bite his dick when he's not looking (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 52:04 It hasn't bitten his dick yet. They cuddle. They kiss.

Anthony Kiedis 52:09 Really?

Joe Rogan 52:09 They... They're like this on the couch.

Anthony Kiedis 52:11 Aw. That's cute.

Joe Rogan 52:11 Give them a chance.

Anthony Kiedis 52:12 Okay. That's cute.

Joe Rogan 52:14 They're survivors.

Anthony Kiedis 52:15 Well, they definitely are survivors.

Joe Rogan 52:16 They're gorgeous.

Anthony Kiedis 52:16 I mean, they've been here forever.

Joe Rogan 52:18 They're gorgeous.

Anthony Kiedis 52:18 I definitely prefer them to crocodiles. Crocodiles can go fuck themselves.

Joe Rogan 52:21 Tougher. Tougher.

Anthony Kiedis 52:22 They're meaner.

Joe Rogan 52:23 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 52:23 They're mean. There was a, a-

Joe Rogan 52:24 As are we, by the way, Joe.

Anthony Kiedis 52:26 Yeah, we're pretty mean.

Joe Rogan 52:26 We're very mean.

Anthony Kiedis 52:27 Yeah. Well, we use nuclear weapons. Crocodiles just one, one creature at a time.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Because there's no shopping malls for them.

Anthony Kiedis 52:34 It's true.

Anthony Kiedis 52:35 It's true.

Joe Rogan 52:35 What do they gotta do?

Anthony Kiedis 52:36 They... Yeah, they can't go to HEB and-

Joe Rogan 52:38 They have to be clever.

Anthony Kiedis 52:39 ... cruise the meat aisle.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Yep.

Anthony Kiedis 52:40 Yeah. It's true. That's true. I mean, I respect it. I get it.

Joe Rogan 52:44 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 52:44 I understand it, but also, fuck you (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 52:48 Best alligator farm on earth. Not a farm. It's kind of a, a sanctuary. St. Augustine, Florida. Have you been there?

Anthony Kiedis 52:56 Uh, I've been to St. Augustine, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:58 Oldest city in the United States of America.

Anthony Kiedis 53:00 Is it really?

Joe Rogan 53:01 The single oldest city.

Anthony Kiedis 53:02 Is that where, like, Cabeza de Vaca landed or something?

Joe Rogan 53:04 The Spanish landed there.

Anthony Kiedis 53:05 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 53:07 Yeah, found the-

Anthony Kiedis 53:07 St. Augustine. That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 53:09 It's a gorgeous town, and some weird animal dude, rich guy, philanthropist, something, has a sanctuary with something like 700 different breeds of alligators and crocodiles.

Anthony Kiedis 53:23 I didn't know-

Joe Rogan 53:23 All, all very well kept.

Anthony Kiedis 53:24 ... there was that many breeds. Really?

Joe Rogan 53:26 It's endless.

Anthony Kiedis 53:28 Wow.

Joe Rogan 53:28 From the biggest, to the tiniest, to the albinos, to the blue.

Anthony Kiedis 53:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 53:32 Pretty fascinating.

Anthony Kiedis 53:33 Blue?

Joe Rogan 53:35 Blue hue.

Anthony Kiedis 53:36 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 53:36 The albino was the, the wildest looking one.

Anthony Kiedis 53:39 They're pretty freaky.

Joe Rogan 53:40 Freaky and also a little extra aggressive.

Anthony Kiedis 53:43 Really?

Joe Rogan 53:44 By nature.

Anthony Kiedis 53:45 Wow!

Anthony Kiedis 53:46 The albino ones are.

Joe Rogan 53:48 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 53:48 I saw an albino elk a couple of years ago. They, they, they're very rare, but it's occasional. It was a cow elk, female elk, and it was albino.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 53:57 It was really wild to see. It was like a ghost.

Joe Rogan 54:00 That's like a spirit animal.

Anthony Kiedis 54:02 Yeah, it was... And it was really fascinating, because I was hunting the males, so I wasn't interested in shooting her at all.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Right (laughs) .

Anthony Kiedis 54:09 I just wanted to look at her. I was like, "Wow, look at that thing. It's white." Just a pure white elk.

Joe Rogan 54:14 Rare.

Anthony Kiedis 54:15 Oh, so rare. Very, very rare. They ha- uh, they have them in deer as well.

Joe Rogan 54:19 And buffalo.

Anthony Kiedis 54:20 Oh, they got white buffalo?

Joe Rogan 54:21 White buffalo, very sacred to the natives of Dakotas.

Anthony Kiedis 54:24 Didn't Ted Nugent have a song about that? Ted Nugent might've had a song about the white buffalo. Great White Buffalo.

Joe Rogan 54:31 A song about him getting trampled by the buffalo?

Anthony Kiedis 54:33 No, look at that. Look at that thing.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 54:34 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 54:35 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 54:36 God, that's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 54:38 They... It snuck into our lyrics on this last record.

Anthony Kiedis 54:41 Wow. What a fucking cool animal. By the way, that is some of the most nutritious meat on Earth.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Buffalo. Not the-

Anthony Kiedis 54:47 Oh, it's so good.

Joe Rogan 54:48 Not necessarily the white, but just buffalo in general.

Anthony Kiedis 54:50 No, not necessarily the white.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 54:51 I w- I probably wouldn't shoot the white ones.

Joe Rogan 54:52 Nope. Nope.

Anthony Kiedis 54:53 It's too, too rare. You're supposed to let it go.

Joe Rogan 54:55 You are. Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 54:56 I think.

Joe Rogan 54:57 They're too inspiring.

Anthony Kiedis 54:58 Well, it's also, it's like, you know... You know, you just... You want to kill the common.

Joe Rogan 55:04 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Anthony Kiedis 55:04 You want to kill that rare...

Joe Rogan 55:07 ... the occasional whale shows up with no pigment.

Anthony Kiedis 55:10 Real? I've seen pink dolphins. Have you ever seen that?

Joe Rogan 55:12 White whales. Uh, in the Amazon you have the pink dolphin. Yeah. But in the Pacific, you have the white-ass whale.

Anthony Kiedis 55:19 Actually white?

Joe Rogan 55:20 Pure white.

Anthony Kiedis 55:21 Wow.

Joe Rogan 55:22 The beluga is-

Anthony Kiedis 55:23 Oh, that's right.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Different than us, or-

Anthony Kiedis 55:24 Belugas. Yeah, they're pretty white.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Uh, belugas are white, but there's also, like, an albino humpback, perhaps. Let me... Cruising the coast of Australia somewhere.

Anthony Kiedis 55:35 Oh, like a very, very rare version of it.

Joe Rogan 55:37 Rare. Yeah, there we go. Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 55:39 Whoa. Wow.

Joe Rogan 55:43 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 55:44 We went, uh, whale sighting in Hawaii. Uh, I forget what time of the year it was. I wanna say it's, like, around now. When does the... One of the whales, they're... But anyway, you, uh, you go out on a boat. And, uh, you just go out into the ocean and they just look for them in the distance and you get close to them and you get to watch them breach. And they just fly through the water and it's just... It's incredible. You can't even... I mean, you know they're big, but until you actually see them in real life, like it doesn't sort of compute.

Joe Rogan 56:20 And strong.

Anthony Kiedis 56:21 Oh my God. And majestic. Like, intelligent, bizarre-

Joe Rogan 56:25 Beyond.

Anthony Kiedis 56:26 ... mammals-

Joe Rogan 56:27 Yes.

Anthony Kiedis 56:28 ... that live in the ocean.

Joe Rogan 56:29 That for some reason don't have hands and can't build stuff.

Anthony Kiedis 56:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 56:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:34 Which is maybe a, a blessing for them.

Anthony Kiedis 56:35 And they talk.

Joe Rogan 56:37 And sing.

Anthony Kiedis 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:38 And love.

Anthony Kiedis 56:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:40 And yeah. I had a day of surfing with a, a mother and her calf-

Anthony Kiedis 56:46 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 56:46 ... where I live in Malibu, and it was a great wave day. Just epically beautiful, clear, perfectly shaped waves. But then we had a humpback and her kid on the sandbar 'cause they like to rub their bellies on the sandbar, and she was kinda sitting right on the takeoff spot for surfing.

Anthony Kiedis 57:06 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 57:06 I was like, "I don't really want to disturb mother and child, but I do have to get that wave." (laughs) So I got as close as I could to the takeoff spot and they didn't care. They were like, "Go for it." You know, "We're just, we're here, you're here." Spent hours surfing with a whale in my

Joe Rogan 57:23 company.

Anthony Kiedis 57:23 Wow. My friend, Peter Atia, he's a, a doctor. He told me that orcas, the sounds that they make and the, the sounds that, that... Their ability to detect sounds, like the frequency that they can project is similar to ultrasound.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 57:45 Like, you know how use, they use ultrasound-

Joe Rogan 57:47 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 57:47 ... to detect an injury and they rub a-

Joe Rogan 57:49 They can see through you.

Anthony Kiedis 57:50 They can see through you. Literally can see through you through the ocean. He goes, "It's mind-boggling." Like, we don't even understand, like, what's going on in them. And when you see, like, an orca's brain in comparison to a human brain.

Joe Rogan 58:03 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 58:03 Like, they've, um, they've done... And, uh, dolphins as well. Like, dolphins, their cerebral cortex is like 40% larger than a human being's. So like s- massive brains, where dolphins can have one... And a orca is basically a dolphin. It's like the cousin of a dolphin.

Joe Rogan 58:17 Dolphin family.

Anthony Kiedis 58:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:18 Dolphin family, yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 58:19 They can... They shut one half of their brain down when they go to sleep.

Joe Rogan 58:24 Beautiful.

Anthony Kiedis 58:24 So one half is always awake to look out for danger and problems. So that's how they sleep. They don't sleep like us. They sleep, like one half shuts off.

Joe Rogan 58:35 Orcas, my guy.

Anthony Kiedis 58:36 They're amazing, man.

Joe Rogan 58:37 That, that's what's on my back.

Anthony Kiedis 58:38 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 58:39 Yes. Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 58:41 Only killed people in captivity.

Joe Rogan 58:43 As, as long we're showing ink.

Anthony Kiedis 58:46 Machine. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 So that face in the middle is the, the Haida interpretation of the orca.

Anthony Kiedis 58:53 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Yeah, they don't kill people.

Anthony Kiedis 58:56 Only in captivity, when they're getting fucking-

Joe Rogan 58:58 Which is fair game.

Anthony Kiedis 58:59 Fuck yeah it's fair game.

Joe Rogan 58:59 Fair game.

Anthony Kiedis 59:01 They're getting tortured. Any, anybody who's seen Blackfish or anybody who knows what's going on in Marineland, all that shit that's going on in Canada right now.

Joe Rogan 59:09 Hate it.

Anthony Kiedis 59:09 It's horrible, man. It's horrible. It's, it's like, it's, it's a form of torture to a sentient animal that might be as smart as us. And one day, we're gonna look back on the captivity of orcas and dolphins and we're gonna be horrified that people were so callous.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Or right now.

Anthony Kiedis 59:27 Or right now.

Joe Rogan 59:28 Pretty horrified right now.

Anthony Kiedis 59:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:29 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 59:29 But I think there's too many people that still don't under- understand. They still don't know and they'll still go to sea, SeaWorld and watch them jump out of the water.

Joe Rogan 59:36 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 59:37 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 59:38 And they're very family.

Anthony Kiedis 59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:40 They're all about their pod.

Anthony Kiedis 59:41 Right, which is why it's so sick that they take them from their pod-

Joe Rogan 59:44 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 59:45 ... and put them in a fucking swimming pool.

Joe Rogan 59:47 Yeah, we can do better than that.

Anthony Kiedis 59:48 Yeah. We, well, you know, we should observe them only in the wild. That's what we should do. I mean, there's, they shouldn't allow those places. They shouldn't exist. If you wanna have a Marineland or a SeaWorld, it should literally be, like, a place where you can go and they have a giant screen and you watch documentaries of these creatures-

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:06 ... so you can appreciate them, and maybe you could donate to some sort of a conservation group and they put some of that money to it. But to have them in captivity? Fuck that. There's no reason for that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Agreed.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:17 There's zero reason for that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 On my bucket list, which I don't really have, but if I did have a bucket list, hanging out in the wild with the orca, preferably surfing, which can be done, but also I would just swim out to one. I feel it has to be done. That's, that's a fear that I wanna face.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:36 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 'Cause, 'cause they could just...

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:38 If they wanted to, just swallow you.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 ... qu- Yeah, swallow.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 But they won't 'cause they never have.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:43 No. No, they don't. Isn't that wild? That they, they've actually helped people. There's people that have been drowning, people that have fallen off of boats and they've helped them. They've actually rescued humans.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:00:52 Like, they're so smart, man. They're, they've just evolved in a way where they've never figured out how to manipulate their environment. They don't have to.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 They don't have to.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:01 They maneuver through 3D space. They, they use sound, and they, they communicate in a way that we can't even decipher.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:09 I mean, think of all the, the code smashers, all these people that have figured out these complex codes and they can decipher them. They have no idea what those orcas are saying. They know that they have dialects-

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:21 ... so I know they sound different in one part of the world than they do in other parts of the world, but they don't know what the fuck they're saying. They have no idea.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 Half of it's song.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 They just like singing.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:30 I bet, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 And dancing.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:32 Have you ever heard of John Lilly?... John Lilly's the man who developed the sensory deprivation tank, and he's also a pioneer in inter-species communication. And one of the things he was doing, he was a legitimate scientist.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:47 One of the things he was doing was, um, trying to decipher dolphin communication and trying to get dolphins to speak English. And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:01:58 ... they, yeah, he was wi- he was a wild dude. He would take acid and get in a sensory deprivation tank right next to a, a tank filled with, uh, orcas, and he would try to communicate with them while he was tripping. And one of the things he did was he developed this research center where they had an orca that lived with a woman, and she lived in this house that was filled with water so the orca could swim around. So, for her to get to her bed, she had to like, you know, the water was like... It wasn't an orca, excuse me, it was a dolphin. And the water was like, you know, chest high, so the dolphin would swim around in this hi- in this house, and then to get into the bed, she'd have to like climb out of the water and into the bed. And the dolphin was a male dolphin, and it would get distracted 'cause it was so hypersexual.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:02:46 So she would jerk off the dolphin.

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 Mm-hmm. Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 1:02:48 And when they found out about it, they killed the research. It-

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 They should, they should've upped the-

Anthony Kiedis 1:02:53 They should've upped the money.

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 ... the, the money, yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:02:56 (laughs) Hire someone to jerk them off more.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 They're v- they're, they're just as fricking sexual as we are.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:00 Maybe even more so. But the only way it would participate in these activities-

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:05 ... was if it got jerked off.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Hand job, hand job.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:07 So, they, they found out and they killed the science.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Yeah, they're humping everything.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:13 Yeah, constantly.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 So, without knowing any of that story prior to right now, great story, in 1983 the sensory deprivation tank had become a little bit of a thing in Hollywood.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:26 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 And you could go and rent a little time.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:29 We have one here.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 You have one here, but this is early days.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 This is John Lilly days.

Anthony Kiedis 1:03:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 And out of nowhere I decided to give my best friend at the time, Tri, some LSD. I said, "Let's take this LSD, go up to the apartment complex, and we're gonna rent an hour in the tank side-by-side." And he was like, "Okay, let's do it." So, we took the LSD, we drove his car, we got in the tanks. I thought it was just gonna be, ooh, trippy-dippy. Forget it. I was 10 billion miles away in outer space.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 An astral plane experience.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 Completely conscious but no body, just flying through the, the quiet vastness of space. It was almost more than we could handle, but those things are real, the elements combined. I don't do LSD anymore, but as a, as a young man, it made sense to me.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:33 The combination of the two things is what's really phenomenal because what Lilly... He, he invented the sensory deprivation tank because he was trying to figure out a way to separate the mind from any of the physical input of the body.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 It works.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:46 It does work, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 Probably without LSD.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:48 Oh, it definitely does-

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:49 ... without LSD.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:50 Yeah. It's- it's one of the best ways to achieve a psychedelic state without any drugs. A- and also you can end it at any time, just open the door-

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 The door.

Anthony Kiedis 1:04:58 ... and it, it's over. It's not like you have to come down from it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:01 Just goes away.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 I had to come down on that day.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:03 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:04 I bet.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 I had to get home.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:05 I bet you did.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:06 How'd you get home? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 It was tough. It was tough. The roads were disappearing under the car.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 You have a tank here in the, in the office or-

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:13 It's in the gym.

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:15 Yeah, it's right next door. I'll show it to you.

Joe Rogan 1:05:16 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:16 It's awesome. It's from Los Angeles. There's a place called the Float Lab.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:21 It's in Venice. It's the premier-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:22 ... float destination on Earth.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Ooh.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:24 My friend Crash runs it. It's incredible. And, uh, Crash is a mad scientist, and he's developed a sensory deprivation tank that's like super advanced with like ozone filtration and... The water filtration is like i- he, he gets these systems that are from like commercial water filtration for like, like people's drinking water and shit.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:45 And he, he has this whole process of... And then it's a giant tank too.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Mm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:50 It's like a, like a meat freezer.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Size of this room?

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:53 No, no, no. It's like, like from this, from this-

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Okay.

Anthony Kiedis 1:05:56 ... back to there. But it's like w- nice and wide where you could reach around, you touch this side and touch that side, so you sort of center yourself in the water.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 How about just floating on water?

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Pretty good.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:07 It's amazing. And there's a thousand pounds of Epsom salts in there, so it's, you're very buoyant, you just like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 Body temp?

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:12 Body temp.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 You don't feel it.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:14 94 degrees, you don't feel it. It's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Dark?

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:16 Yeah. Pitch black.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 Yep.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:17 Yeah, and just, you, you just blend into nothingness. And when the mind is detached from the physical sensations of the body, your brain becomes supercharged. And the way I always describe it is like if we were having this conversation and there was someone next to us with a jackhammer, it'd be super distracting.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 Mm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:34 We'd be like let's get over there-

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:35 ... so we can talk. We can't hear. But everything is input, the sensory input of your butt touching this chair-

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:43 ... right? Your, your hands touching this desk, the ear, the, the earphones on, the microphone in front of your face, the physical space, the, the, you and I exchanging social cues and communicating with sound, like all that stuff is input. Well, in the sensory deprivation tank, there's none.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:06:59 Zero. And then with the water being the same temperature as your skin, it feels like you're flying.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 That was my experience.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:06 It's amazing. On acid it must be s- insane. I've never done it on acid.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 And I, I think it just, you know, exacerbated the whole aspect of what you're talking about-

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:15 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 ... where there's no body.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 Your, your brain is free to go wherever it likes. I loved it. To me it was pretty monumental. I don't think I would repeat it in, under those circumstances.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 But I'm happy I did.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:28 Well, if you did, you'd want more time. One hour is like, beep, time's up, Anthony. Like, boom.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Time was up. Time was up. Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:33 What do you mean time's up? I'm on Jupiter.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 But f- now for me I get...... an even better feeling in the ocean.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:41 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 The ocean is so full of life and peace and nature and excitement. That, that's my, my tank these days.

Anthony Kiedis 1:07:50 Yeah, you were telling me about your love of surfing the other day. You love it, huh?

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 I do because it gives me that, that feeling, that freedom, and, uh, there's an energy. I'm late to the game, late to the party, late as you can be. Started in my 40s, tried a handful of times before that, made no sense. And then when I finally found it, through Takuji Masuda, my teacher, my Japanese teacher, um, I just, that's what I wanna do till the day I die.

Anthony Kiedis 1:08:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Just go sit out there, waiting for a wave. If you think about the storms 3,000 miles away, raging in the ocean, sending that, that wave of energy through the water, when it finally releases, when it hits the shallows, it's a rush. It's a drug. It's a high. It's a natural high where you're next to whales and dolphins and pelicans and eels and anemones and just looking back at the coast with a different point of view. No phone. No technology whatsoever, just water and a board.

Anthony Kiedis 1:08:59 And that water's charged too. It's like there's life in that water. That water's not just water. That water's like a giant living superorganism.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 Superorganism.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:08 Sustains life.

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 Ions and minerals.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:11 Yes. There's energy to it. Yeah. A, a lot of my jujitsu friends love surfing 'cause a lot of Brazilians surf. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 Mm. I've seen 'em out there.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:19 Yeah. And, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:21 ... like they, a lot of them come from Rio, and a lot of surfers in Rio-

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:24 ... and they come over to America so they surf in America.

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 All over the world-

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 ... you see them in the water.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:28 Mm. Yeah. They love it. And it's also, it's a great exercise for jujitsu too because it's so balance-based. There's so much going on. There's ... It's also a flow exercise.

Joe Rogan 1:09:37 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:38 Jujitsu's very much about, like, flowing.

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 Right. Scrambling.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:43 Yeah. There's a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 You gotta scramble with the wave.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 You don't know what it's gonna give you.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 One wave jacks up more than another.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:49 Yeah. Have you ever done a w- one of those wave pools, those crazy places that they dev- ... There's one out here in Waco-

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:09:56 ... that, like, develops waves and ... App- apparently, it's a great way to learn because you get to ride.

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 It's pr- ... It's a good way to practice.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:02 You get to ride a lot of different-

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 It's-

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:04 ... waves.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 If not an organism.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:05 Right. Right. But it's a way-

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 And-

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:07 ... to get used to surfing itself.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 If, if you wanna train and, and really work on your, your technique and get better, uh, rather than have this experience with nature, it's definitely the place to go. And also if you live in Texas.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:22 Mm. Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 So people that are competitive in, in the leagues and wanna go to the Olympics, it's the greatest invention ever 'cause you can just work on turns, p- specific turns. I don't care about any of that. I just wanna go paddle out into the unknown.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:38 I get it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:39 But I, I see the value.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 And they're po- they're popping up everywhere.

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:43 Yeah, they're everywhere, right? There was one that just got shot down in Palm Springs.

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 Shot down?

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:49 Yeah, unfortunately. There's, uh, you know, concern that it's gonna bring a bunch of fucking crazy hippies in their VW buses playing their loud-

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 I hope so. (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:10:58 ... loud rock and roll. I don't know why they shot it down. I mean, I think they might have shot it down also 'cause of concern that it, it uses a lot of water.

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 Water. Water.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:06 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:07 But can't they just get that water from the ocean?

Joe Rogan 1:11:09 You would think. It's not that far from the Sea of Cortez.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:13 There's plenty of water out there. They gotta just-

Joe Rogan 1:11:15 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:15 ... get the salt out of the water.

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 They do.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:17 That's the problem.

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 They do.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:18 The problem is not the lack of water.

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:20 It's salt.

Joe Rogan 1:11:21 Well, there are lots of, uh, people working on that.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:26 Yeah, they should.

Joe Rogan 1:11:26 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:27 That would fix California (snaps fingers) like that.

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 It's expensive right now.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:30 Fuck yeah, it's expensive.

Joe Rogan 1:11:31 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:32 Yeah, but why, why? Why, why haven't you guys ... You know, nuclear-powered desalination plants.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:38 You're welcome. Fix it.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:40 Fix it. California should look like a fucking jungle. It should be beautiful and green-

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 Wow.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:45 ... and lush. All that fucking sun.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:48 All that sun, if it ... You're constantly spraying water over everything. It would be amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 We have some lush. Cal-

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:54 It's all right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 We have some lush. I just ... Hoopa Valley, lush.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:57 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:11:57 Northern California. Yeah. I went to, uh, Northern California a few years back with my family, went to the rainforest, the, uh, the, to see-

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 The redwoods.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:07 All the redwoods.

Joe Rogan 1:12:07 Ah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:09 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 That's lush.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:10 Well, that's the thing about California, right? There's so many different ecosystems that are all combined. You have your desert. You know, you have, like, the rainy as fuck in Northern California.

Joe Rogan 1:12:20 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:20 There's so much. You know, mountains are right there, the oceans right there.

Joe Rogan 1:12:23 Mountains, sea, the whole deal.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:24 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 It is.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:26 Yeah, it's an amazing state.

Joe Rogan 1:12:27 I, I, I can't pull myself away.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:29 I get it. I get it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:31 Maybe-

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:31 If I was gonna live somewhere, I'd live where you live though.

Joe Rogan 1:12:34 I have a-

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:34 Malibu's the spot.

Joe Rogan 1:12:34 ... I have a spare lot. (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:36 I do. I was saving it for my son, but ...

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:40 Is it right next door to you?

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 It is.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:41 I'll be your neighbor.

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:43 I would live in Malibu. If I was gonna live anywhere in California, I think Mal- ... Malibu's got a great vibe. There's also a thing about being next to the ocean that's very humbling. I think it's very good for people-

Joe Rogan 1:12:54 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:12:54 ... to be sur- ... Just confronted by inescapable beauty and power of nature.

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:01 And that's what, uh, oceans do.

Joe Rogan 1:13:03 I need that. I need to be humbled daily.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:05 It's good for everybody. The mountains do the same thing.

Joe Rogan 1:13:08 They do.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 100%.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:11 You know what the, the root of that word is?

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:14 Which word? Humble?

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 Humble.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:15 No.

Joe Rogan 1:13:15 To be close to the ground, to be low to the ground.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:18 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:19 That makes sense. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:21 Yeah. Feels right.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:22 Yeah. Yeah. Humble, like, p- people look at that as, like, a negative. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 Ooh.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:26 ... that's not good. So positive. Uh, y- you should be humble, man. You're in space. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:31 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:32 I go to, um-... the, um, the big island. I try to go, like, you know, once every few years. But whenever I do go, we go to the Keck Observatory.

Joe Rogan 1:13:41 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:42 I don't know if you've ever been up there.

Joe Rogan 1:13:43 Mauna Kea or whatever it is?

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:44 I think that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 Yeah, yeah. The big mountain.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:46 Um, Mauna Loa, maybe? Mauna Kea? Uh, whatever the mountain is that's up there, um, there's an observatory-

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Yep.

Anthony Kiedis 1:13:51 ... that you get to. It's, like, many thousand feet above sea level and if you can time it right, if you could visit during no moon, when the moon's not out, it's fucking spectacular.

Joe Rogan 1:14:02 You're in space.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:03 You are ... You literally, like, on a spaceship with a glass dome over you. That's what it looks like. Like, you have an un- an unhindered view of the cosmos that I've never experienced before. I mean, I've been in the country when it's, uh, a, a beautiful dark night and you get to see all the stars, and it looks amazing. But up there, you're through the clouds.

Joe Rogan 1:14:25 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:25 I think you're like 11-

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 13.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:26 Is it 13?

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 I think it's 13.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:28 13,000 feet above sea level?

Joe Rogan 1:14:28 I could be wrong. I think it's 13.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:29 Super high up there. That's what it looks like. But that's literally what it looks like, man. That's not an exaggeration. That's not, that's not a fake image. It's so incredible that I remember going there once, changed the way I feel about our relationship to space.

Joe Rogan 1:14:44 Mm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:45 Like, forever. I c- ... I ... And I also got so upset thinking, like, "How fucked is it that that's not available to us just because we're so weird with light?"

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:14:55 We want everything lit up at night, you know? We want the cities lit up and we want everything to be lit up. And when you get that light pollution, you miss the majesty of the cosmos, which is what I think humbled our ancestors.

Joe Rogan 1:15:09 Hmm. Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:10 I think all of our ancestors were completely connected to the cosmos. If you look at, like, the Mayans, the Mayans, they designed all of their structions- uh, structures in their cities to represent the cosmos, to represent constellations, and so did the Egyptians.

Joe Rogan 1:15:27 They were connected to the cosmos.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:28 Yes, they ... it was inescapable.

Joe Rogan 1:15:30 They also didn't have television, radio, film.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:33 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:34 Uh, you know-

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:34 ... computers. So you had to deal with the elements.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 Which is what made a lot of those people so smart, 'cause from sunup to sundown, you're working on-

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 ... your connection.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:47 Da Vinci.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:48 No distractions.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:49 None. Just art.

Joe Rogan 1:15:51 Just art-

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:52 ... and invention and philosophy and ...

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:15:55 All day, every day.

Anthony Kiedis 1:15:56 Yeah. There's something about that view of the cosmos that I really wish more people would get.

Joe Rogan 1:16:02 (laughs) I'm gonna go check it out. I've never been up there. I've ridden my motorcycle all around that island many times, but I've never ridden up to the top of that mountain.

Anthony Kiedis 1:16:10 It's wild. You gotta go up there when, like ... Find out when the next dark night is.

Joe Rogan 1:16:15 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:16:16 Like, what do they call it? Was it a dark ... What is it called when it's, like, no moon at all? New moon. New moon. New moon? New moon. It's, uh, y- you could, you know, obviously you could look at it on a calendar. But if you get up there during that time, it's pretty fucking amazing. I mean, it really ... It blew me away. My oldest daughter, uh, was, I think she was, like, nine or 10 at the time, I think she was too young to appreciate it. But we w- when we were up there the last time, we were just, like, standing there staring at it. And I, I remember thinking, "I'm never gonna forget this. I'm never gonna forget what this feels like." It just f- it just ... Um, I was like, "Oh, we're in space!"

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 I don't think she'll forget it either.

Anthony Kiedis 1:16:59 I hope not.

Joe Rogan 1:17:00 I don't think she will. I think at that age, you're still-

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 ... impressionable.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:06 I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:07 Shit, I'm impressionable now and I'm 55.

Joe Rogan 1:17:08 (laughs)

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:10 But you might have gone through a, a patch where you were less impressionable.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:13 Hopefully.

Joe Rogan 1:17:14 Yeah. My, my teenage son is like, "What?"

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:18 "Cosmos."

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:19 "Fuck outta here, bitch. I'm on TikTok."

Joe Rogan 1:17:20 "Uh, yeah, I'm going to Subway. What are you talking about?"

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:24 (laughs) Well, teenage boys in particular, they're feeling their oats and their testosterone-

Joe Rogan 1:17:29 Yes! Oh.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:30 ... flowing through their system.

Joe Rogan 1:17:31 Rebel. Rebels.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:32 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:33 But you need that.

Joe Rogan 1:17:33 I love it.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:36 Yeah, it's a-

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:36 ... it's a, it's a push and a pull.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:39 Does he have, like, a, a physical outlet to ex- expresses his, uh, physical energy?

Joe Rogan 1:17:46 Not enough.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:47 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:47 I wish he had more. He is a baller. He plays the basketball.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:51 Oh, that's good. Basketball's a great way.

Joe Rogan 1:17:53 It is.

Anthony Kiedis 1:17:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:54 It is. I, I beg him to go surfing, but it's my thing, in his mind. That's your thing, Dad.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:01 Hmm. Oh, he doesn't wanna fuck with your thing.

Joe Rogan 1:18:03 He doesn't wanna fuck with my thing.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:05 He's gotta be a rebel.

Joe Rogan 1:18:05 But, but when he does paddle out, his eyes light up.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 And he's a natural.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:13 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:18:13 He's a big strong boy, so I'll just let him find it.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:17 Get him in jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 1:18:19 I ... He was in jujitsu as a child.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:21 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:18:21 As a little boy. Yeah, I had, I had good teachers coming over and he was, uh, willing.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:27 One thing-

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 Not anymore.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:28 One thing about California, there's a lot of jujitsu out there.

Joe Rogan 1:18:32 Good teachers.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:32 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:18:33 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:33 I could steer you in the right place. Let me know.

Joe Rogan 1:18:35 Could you?

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:36 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:36 You know, you know something about that?

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:37 Oh, yeah. I know a lot of my good-

Joe Rogan 1:18:38 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:38 ... friends out there teach.

Joe Rogan 1:18:41 I tried it three times in my life.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:43 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 It hurt.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:47 It fricking hurt.

Anthony Kiedis 1:18:49 It's designed to hurt.

Joe Rogan 1:18:50 It hurt. Like, I liked it, um, but I was so competitive that I got home and I realized there was no skin on my feet-

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:00 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:19:00 ... from the mats.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:01 Like, I have no technique.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:03 So I'm just trying to muscle it, you know, dig in.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:05 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:19:06 I did all right. I fought some guys. It was fun. Hurt.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:11 The key to learning jujitsu is to learn how to play. Like, the Gracies, they always, they always have this phrase, like, uh, Rener Gracie and Ryron Gracie, they say, "Keep it playful."

Joe Rogan 1:19:21 Right.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:21 And it's great advice. If you could really follow that advice, that's how you learn.

Joe Rogan 1:19:26 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:27 Because you learn how to not muscle things, you learn how to only use technique and to have fun and just to ... Don't be crazy competitive. Know that you're gonna get tapped out, know that you're gonna tap other people. It's gonna be fine.

Joe Rogan 1:19:39 Hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:39 But if you just always try to win every time, you're not gonna learn.

Joe Rogan 1:19:43 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:43 You're gonna be too tense. You're gonna be too ... You're not gonna open yourself up.... so you're not gonna take chances or you're not gonna learn as much.

Joe Rogan 1:19:50 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:50 Y- it'll hinder you. You think you're doing good because you're not getting tapped, but really you're doing bad-

Joe Rogan 1:19:55 Yeah.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:56 ... because you're not learning enough.

Joe Rogan 1:19:58 That was my experience.

Anthony Kiedis 1:19:59 It's normal. M- most men do. I mean, uh, it's interesting when you see guys do it for, like, the first few times. Like, you see the- the tension in them.

Joe Rogan 1:20:08 Mm-hmm.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20:08 They can't breathe. They're so fucking tense and they get tired so quick, and s-

Joe Rogan 1:20:11 Gotta play.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20:12 Yeah, you gotta keep it playful. Relax. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:15 I love watching it. I l- I love the art. I love the chess match of all that. Fascinating. Can't get enough of it.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20:25 What do you do physically other than surf? You're in really good shape.

Joe Rogan 1:20:29 Um, very ... I mean, not to be a jerk, but very little. Very, very little.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20:34 You just have great genes?

Joe Rogan 1:20:36 No, I- I- I- I am a performer for a living, so that's two hours of good exercise.

Anthony Kiedis 1:20:41 That's a lot of aerobics.

Joe Rogan 1:20:43 Uh, I like the bicycle very much. I get on a bike almost every day just to go ride next to the ocean and be humbled. Um, and surf is super limited 'cause we don't always have waves, and, and if it's like a show day or a rehearsal day I can't go surf. Being a dad, you know, wrestling my son a bit.

Anthony Kiedis 1:21:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:21:05 That kinda thing. But I don't, I don't have a, a discipline that I go to. Just engaging life physically, always, since I was a kid. But I don't really have a routine. I don't have a, a beach workout or