EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,023 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drum music) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- JRJoe Rogan
(drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- MWMatt Walsh
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Hello, Matt Walsh. Joe Rogan- Hi. ... nice to meet you. Yeah, you too. Officially. Um, your documentary's a, a w- it's- (sighs) I can't tell you how many people have asked me if I've seen it. It's- I think it's one of the most eye-opening things that's ever been done on this whole gender confusion thing that we're going through right now in our culture. And, it was just like one of those things where I- I had to watch. Like so many people were like, "You have to see this. You have to see this." And I expected it to be like- (deep breath) I mean, I- I thought it would be like arguments with people or it would be very, you know, very confrontational, but instead, I think you did it masterfully. What you did is you just let these people explain themselves the way they would talk if you weren't there. The way they would talk to people who agree with what they're saying. And by not pushing back, I think you allowed them to- to let all the crazy out. And it's like- it's- it's dis- it's hard to describe to people that aren't aware of what's going on- Yeah. ... of how wild this stuff has gotten. But first of all, tell me, what was the process of making this? Like how long did it take? What- what was the- what was the motivation behind it? (smacks lips) Yeah. Um, thanks for talking about it so much on your podcast, by the way. It's been, uh, it's been a huge boost for us. And we- you know, I- I had this idea- (sighs) you really have to go back several years, because it occurred to me maybe back in, I don't know, 2017 that, uh, when this- when this transgender stuff w- was starting to really gain mainstream traction, which I think happened really- that was like, uh, maybe when Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner. That was the- that was the moment that I think it exploded onto the mainstream. Not- not when it began, but it exploded onto the mainstream. Right around that time, it- it sort of occurred to me that- that the people promoting this stuff have a- a problem, which is that we're- we're supposed to accept someone like Bruce as a woman, but then what- what exactly does that mean? What are we accepting him as? Like, he says, "I identify as a woman." Well, what are you identifying as? What are we if you're a woman? Well, I- I know what a woman was before, but if now we're including a guy like Bruce, then what is a woman now? And so, I started asking this question, it was really basic, just like, "What is a woman? What- what are you trying to say about womanhood now?" And, uh, couldn't get anyone to answer it. I mean, and mostly it's just on Twitter, you know? And, uh, challenging someone on the left, "Just give me a definition. What- what's your definition of the word?" And, um, none of them would do it, so at a certain point, I thought, "Well, we have to find a way to go out and put this question in front of them." Um, and that's sort of where the idea for the documentary came from. And- and we knew going in that we wanted- we wanted two things. Well, three things. One is we have the- we have the mission behind it, the- the message that we wanna get across. Uh, but we also want it to be a piece of enter- entertainment, you know? Because a lot of conservative documentaries, not all of them, but many of them are just- you feel like you're watching an extended version of a podcast or something. It's not- there's- it's not a piece of entertainment. So, we wanted it to be that. And then, we also knew that, uh, the way this is going to work, if it works at all is if I'm just asking questions and I'm- 'cause if I- if it's- if it's me going on a tour around the country yelling at people, that would be satisfying for me emotionally, but it just wouldn't- it wouldn't prove anything other than what people already know, which is that two sides yell at each other. Uh, so we wanted to give sort of gender ideology a chance to hang itself by its own incoherences, which is- which I think is what- what happened. T- I think you definitely accomplished that. And th- that- it's- it's so funny that that question, "What is a woman?" is so difficult to answer. And then they'll say, "Well, someone who identifies as a woman." And you said, "Well, what does that mean though?" Right, so then- And then, they wanna just stop talking. Like- Yeah. ... what- what was the- the politician that actually had you leave his office when you...? Yeah, we actually- we had a couple that, uh, stormed out, but only one made it on- on camera, and that was the- that was, um, uh, Mark Takano, congressman in, uh, California. And he's one of the- he's one of the advocates. There- there's a reason why- there's a reason we chose all these people. It wasn't just random. He's an advocate. He's not just a Democrat politician. He's an advocate for the Equality Act, which is, uh, this push by Democrats to kind of federalize all this stuff on a national level, so that all across the country, for example, men have the right to use the women's restroom and opens up all the sports teams and all that. It just settles it. Takes it away from the states. And so, he's an advocate of that, and he's a- so a good guy to talk to. And, um, we- we- he- he sat there for about 30 minutes, uh, especially when I'm asking him the easy questions, and he would give his like filibustering answer, but then once I started asking real questions, that's when he got really uncomfortable. Y- you could even see in the film, he keeps looking over my shoulder, and that's because his aide is standing right behind my back the entire time. And, uh, but she never- I- I was- I kept expecting her to cut it off and- and shut it down, but she never did. And eventually, he just had enough of it and he got up and left. But the thing that made him leave was, I didn't even get to ask him the what is a woman question. I asked him, uh, I- I- I asked him, you know, there- there are males who want to use the women's restroom or the women's locker room, but then there are females who don't want to see an individual with a penis in the locker room, so you've got two competing claims here, two people who have feelings, the women who feel like they don't want to see this, it makes them feel bad to see it, and then the men who it makes them feel bad if they can't use the restroom. So, who wins out? How do you balance that? I think it's a fair question. And- It's a very good question. And that's when he just got up and said, "The interview's over," and walked out. Well, th- in those scenarios where- this is where women, particularly feminists who have always been like hardcore lefties, they're li- like they're finding themselves in this ideological quagmire. Yeah. They're like, they're- they're feminists-
- JRJoe Rogan
... they're pro-women's rights, they're on the left, and they're not anti-trans. But then all the sudden, this is getting imposed into their world, and they're told they have to accept it, or they're transphobic, regardless of this person's sexual history. Like, if this person is a sexual abuser, if this person is a, a, a, like a literally registered sex offender, they can go into certain places, dress like a woman, and use women's spaces.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. It's the Louise Spa case in, in Los Angeles.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, that's exactly what it is. It's like, I mean, there's so many instances of people gaming the system, right? There's the prisoner who went to jail and immediately decided they were trans and impregnated two prisoners while they're in there.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. That, that's happening all over the country, by the way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
And these, these women have no... You wanna talk about giving a voice to the voiceless? These women have no voice. They're in prison. What are they, who are they supposed to talk to? And, uh, and, and they're getting locked in a... Can you imagine that? You're a, a woman. Most... And many women who are in jail are in, are in jail for non-violent offenses. Um, and now they're in, locked in a cage 24 hours a day with men, many of them are sex offenders.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that guy was a murderer.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that guy had murdered his foster care father, and the, the, the cops who went to the crime scene said it was the worst murder they had ever seen. He'd been stabbed from his face down to his ankles. Like, his... He'd just been stabbed an insane amount of times, just a-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... bloodbath. This is the person that just decided right after getting arrested that they identify as a woman.
- MWMatt Walsh
And, you know, the other thing to keep in mind too is that, yeah, there are men who are just gaming the system, as you point out. I think in prison, that's, that happens a lot, because they'd rather be in a women's prison than a men's prison. Uh, but also in general, like, there are different categories of, uh, of people who, who transition, and we kind of talk about them like they're all the same, but they're not. And you can kind of break it down by age, like there's the very young children, f- a five-year-old, and we hear that, "Oh, my five-year-old is trans." That's 1,000% the parent just deciding they're gonna do that to the child, because no child is gonna admit, no child even knows what that is, so you have to, you have to suggest that to them. Then you have the adolescent girls, and, you know, Abigail Shrier has written about this in her great book.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, and, and they're, that's the social contagion. They pick it up from society. But then there's the older men who are adults and decide one day that they're women, and for so many of them, this is a fetish. I mean, this is like the, uh, the thing we're not allowed to say or acknowledge, but it's totally true, that for most of, for most of these older men who decide that, "I'm a woman," it's a fetish. It's autogynephilia.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
They're, they're, they're, uh, enchanted by the idea of themselves as women. And so now, now we have to participate in your fetish? Like, you, you get off on the idea of being seen as a woman, and I have to be, I have to be a participant in that. It's r- it's really a, it's really d- degrading and, to all of us, you know, that, that we're all being forced into this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's always been a, a psychological condition. It's always been known as being like a psychiatric condition, like it's a mental health issue.
- MWMatt Walsh
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And now, it's being accepted as a gender identity issue. Where it was always just like a weird kink that people had, and now you, you're, ag- reg- again, regardless of whether or not this person's a sex offender, registered sex offender, repeated sex offender, you have to accept this. Otherwise, you're a bigot. It's just this, this rigid adherence to ideology is so cult-like, it's so wi- it's so fucking Handsmaid Tale. It's, it's so wild that people are just wholesale adopting this. And this is not to deny that there's people that are trans. I've met people that are trans. It exists in nature. I mean, you occasionally, guys will shoot a buck and they'll find out that it's actually a female with antlers. Nature's weird, right? I think nature does put people, uh, make humans, for whatever reason, that really feel like they should have been born a female or should have been born a male. But that's not all of what's happening. And in our desire to be compassionate and to have care for these people and to, to l- love these people and respect these people, we're opening the door to all this chaos.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think that's what you highlight so well in this film, and it's just, it's so strange to me how so many people on the left, people that I've, you know, before this, I generally respected their opinion, just buy into it wholesale and will spout out things as if they're facts about how much this helps people and keeps people from killing themselves and, and, and, and helps kids. Like, but it's not true.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. It's not true. And the, and the, the suicide stuff is so, it's just so sinister, because this is the emotional blackmail that they, that they-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
... tell parents. That, uh, you know, your daughter identifies as a, as your son now, and then the classic line, the now classic line is, "Would you rather have a, a dead daughter or a living son?" Like, you have to affirm this or your daughter's gonna kill themselves. And so many parents especially, you know, you go back a couple years when this conversation wasn't being had on a, uh, at a very visible level, they're, they just, they don't know what to do. They're just like, they- they're panicked. And, uh, they've just been told by a mental health provider who they trust that if they don't go along with their child's delusion, that their child's gonna commit suicide. So, I, I can understand when you're told that, that you're gonna kinda panic. But it's just, it's not true. Um, the evidence, in fact, tells us the opposite, that suicidality, we cover this in the film, Scott Newgent mentions it, that the, the only reliable long-term study we have on this sh- shows that suicidality is the highest after, years after transition. That's the highest point for suicidality among trans people. But the other problem too is that, is that there are a couple of maybe reliable long-term studies, but there aren't that many, because we haven't done this to people on this scale ever before in human history. So, the current crop of, uh, especially trans, quote unquote trans kids, they're the, the guinea pigs. They're the, we're experimenting on them.... and they're making a lot of ... the, the healthcare providers are making a lot of promises about how this is going to turn out when they can't possibly know this, because we've never done it before to people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's the, one of the more sinister aspects of it for me, is the way they're encouraging hormone blockers and hormone transition for people that are going through puberty or haven't gone through puberty. It's just, uh, we don't have any long-term studies on this, and now they're finding that these hormone blockers aren't innocuous, and that they, they cause a lot of health problems. And they're, they're saying this now, out in the open-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when people have been, for years, the last few years, promoting this as if it's a pause button.
- MWMatt Walsh
And that's ... and it's just absurd, because that's not, that's not how human biology works.
- 15:00 – 30:00
(sighs) And then there's…
- MWMatt Walsh
them, you're, you're oftentimes permanently taking away their future fertility. So, you know, you, you've taken away their capacity to ... like a girl. You've, you've, you've made it so she'll never be able to have kids in the future. You've already taken that from her. She, she has given it up before she even could know what she's even given up. Um, and then for her, it's kind of a logical process. "Well, I've already given that up, so I might as well go get the double mastectomy," and then all down the line.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) And then there's the, the euphoria that comes with taking testosterone that happens to them, like, almost immediately. They have a different feeling, and they go, "Oh, this is how I should have been all along. Now the medicine is helping me." It's, i- i- it's also if someone identifies as male or identifies as female, and this is just how they feel they are, what is th- like, what's the logical argument for starting to give them hormones that are not natural in their system?
- MWMatt Walsh
I, I don't think there is a, a logical argument. Um, the only argument you ever hear from them, and I know because I've a- I've asked, is, uh, is the emotional blackmail argument, that it just you have to do it, because if you don't, they're going to kill the ... But, but, uh, another point about the suicide thing I wanna mention is that, you know, we, we know that trans identification has risen, in the youngest generation, has risen, like, 20 or 30-fold. Right? And what, what they tell us on the left is that, "Well, that's not social contagion. This is just people now feel comfortable to live their truth, so there's always been this many trans people. It's just that in the past they couldn't announce that to the world, because it was, it was an un-affirming society."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
That's what they tell you. Well, if that's true, and you had, you had, you had, like, millions of trans people in the past who are living in these un-affirming societies, and we're also told that if you don't affirm trans people, it leads to suicide, then shouldn't we see, if we look back through history, just this unbroken mass epidemic across the world of people killing themselves en masse because they're not being affirmed as trans? That's not what we find. Shouldn't we see, like ... you know, you, you should, you should be able to go back to 1850 and find millions of kids killing themselves because it turns out they were trans and not being affirmed. But s- child suicide almost, like, didn't exist up until very recently. Um, it was basically unheard of. So, it's just ... everything they say d- just ... when you, when you, when you apply a little bit of common sense, it all starts to break down.
- JRJoe Rogan
When do you think this sh- do you think it's the Caitlyn Jenner thing that shifted it? Like, when did this become a big part of the cultural narrative? Because I would have never imagined, if you came up to me 20 years ago and said, "In 20 years from now, like, g- gender identity will be one of the big points of contention in our culture, among politics."
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, I, I think it ... you kinda decide where you wanna start, because like in the film, we go back to, uh, Alfred Money and, uh, or Alfred Kinsey and John Money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
That's mid-20th Century. So, these ideas were out there. I mean, these are the guys who came up with ... like, they, the phrase "gender identity" was invented by, by these guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Kinsey was a wild dude.
- MWMatt Walsh
Y- y- yeah. He was. They, they both, they both were. They were degenerate pedophiles. Um, and it, it's clear in both of the, especially Kinsey, it's pretty clear that he had his, uh, sexual...... fetishes and fascinations, and he wanted to prove to himself that he's not weird, because everyone's like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
And so, he, he goes out and, uh, y- you know, he, he declares... I think he said that 10% of adult males are gay or something like that. And, uh, and then you find out that he's, he's m- mostly serving prisoners and sex offenders and, you know, people like that. He's not, he's not going to just a, uh, a normal intersection of, of, of Americans. So, you go back to those guys, but I think ... what's, what's the moment when all this exploded into the mainstream? It kind of ... it was, like, seeded into our institutions, and then there was a moment when it, when it all became mainstream. And I don't know if Bruce Jenner is the definite starting point, but I do think that that was a, uh, a pivotal, pivotal moment. It was a pivotal moment, not just because now the media is celebrating this, but also because conservatives, you know, had an opportunity right then and there to, to, to take a stand against this, to recognize it for what it is, for the threat that it is, and to take a firm stand. And I think so many conservatives didn't, because they just imagined that this is ... either they don't wanna get in trouble, be called a transphobe, or they just thought it's sort of a sideshow. And, um, and so they just ... many conservative, uh, basically ignored it, up until-
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think anybody realized it was gonna get this big.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. I, I think a lot of people didn't, but, I mean ... it, it should have been, it should have been more clear. I guess woulda, coulda, shoulda, but it, it should have been more clear because this was a, this was ... they're waging an assault on, like, basic, fundamental reality, and, uh, so it goes way beyond. This is not just about gender. This is about reality. That's why in the film, every conversation I had with someone on that side of it, every single one devolved into this, "Well, what is truth? And who's truth? And how do you know what truth is?" And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
You know, so I'm sitting in the same room as someone and, and, and th- but I can't get them to acknowledge that we exist in the same reality. We can share a room, but we, but we don't share a, a reality. You know, I, I had ... there was ... in the film, there's one woman that we talked to on the street, and she was giving me this, "We all have our own truth," thing. And then I said, uh, "Well, what if it's my truth that you don't exist?" And she said, "Well, then I don't exist."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
Like, she was willing to j- erase her own existence, if that's how I perceive it. It's to- it's totally incoherent.
- JRJoe Rogan
I found out about a- the, the w- the r- the reaction that people have to this and how strongly they're committed to this when there was a transgender fighter that was, uh-
- MWMatt Walsh
Falcon.
- JRJoe Rogan
... hiding the fact ... Fallon Fox was hiding the fact that they were biologically male and competed twice as a woman, beaten the fuck out of these women. And I was like, "This is crazy." Like, you can't ... and then ... and trying to say that it was just a medical procedure. And when I, I thought, rightly, got angry at it, I saw all these articles written, all these pieces about how transphobic my position was and what a horrible person I was. And like, w- we're, we're literally talking about someone not telling someone. I said that, look, if you are a, a transgender athlete and you tell someone, "Hey, I, uh, was biologically male, but now I identify as a female. Would you like to fight?" And that person still says yes, all in. Go ahead. Have fun. Just like I think you should be able to ride bulls and go dirt biking and skydiving. Do whatever wild, dangerous shit you wanna do. But to hide the fact that you're biologically male and you were a male for 30-plus years, that was madness to me.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But they had already drawn this line in the sand. And I was ... I remember arguing with someone on Twitter about it, when this woman said, "She was always a woman." I go, "Even when this person impregnated a woman and had a child with them." She's like, "Even then." Like, even then. She stuck her penis in a woman, got her pregnant-
- MWMatt Walsh
That's a science. Follow the science. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... became a father, and even that, during that act, she was a woman. Like, what are ... exactly what is a woman? What the fuck are we talking about?
- MWMatt Walsh
They, they ... what they're really saying is that this person ... they're talking about self-perception, like, this person perceived himself that way. But s- but self-perception is not always reality. There's like ... of course, we all re- ... in, in most other contexts, we recognize that a person can have a self-perception that just is not true, it's just inaccurate. I mean, you, you could walk down the street, uh, in any city and find drug-addled homeless people talking to themselves, and if you were to ask them about themselves, you're gonna find ... they're gonna say a lot of things that just don't line up with reality. Uh, and in every other context, we're allowed to acknowledge that, even in medical contexts. I mean, uh, someone who has b- body dysmorphia in the form of, uh, anorexia. You know, a young woman goes to the doctor and she's 90 pounds, and she says, "I, I feel like I'm a 300-pound, you know, fat ass."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
The doctor, doctor is not going to affirm that and say, "Well, if that's how you feel, that's how you ..." Uh, fatness is on a spectrum. I mean, th- they're not gonna give her diet pills. They're going to-
- JRJoe Rogan
But, but why gender? Like, why is gender this ideological battleground? Like, how the fuck did that become this thing where it's, it's encouraging, like, this cult-like mentality, where you cannot ... uh, e- even though things are clearly odd, th- clear- clearly don't make any sense. They don't s- they don't fit with logical reality. You have to adhere to whatever this ideology is promu- promoting.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "I hope it doesn't get that big." But now here we are, seven years later-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and he was right.
- MWMatt Walsh
Because there's also a difference between telling people they can't say something, which is what free speech suppression usually is, uh, and that's bad enough, but then telling people that they, that they have to say something-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
... compelling them to actually say something, putting words in their mouth and telling them, "You have to say this." Um, and it's not just... It's not, it's not a... You know, pronouns, it's not a small thing, because when you, when you use the she for a he, uh, you're not only being forced to say something, but you're, you're being forced to...... affirm and acquiesce to a claim that you don't agree with. You're, you're being forced to express a belief that's not yours. I mean, it's like, uh, it, it's not much different from, y- you know, a, a dictatorship forcing someone to profess belief in a religion. You know? Forced ... It's like, it's forced conversion, basically, is what it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Um, and, uh, and o- once you allow that, it doesn't matter. Of course it's gonna start somewhere small. It's just pronouns. It always starts that way. But, but like I said, it's, it's also, it's actually not small. Pronouns are ... There's a reason why the left makes a big deal out of it. So any- any time people on the right say, "Oh, it's not a big deal," in response to the left making a big deal about something, well, they wouldn't be making a big deal about it if it wasn't a big deal. Th- the fact that they, that th- that they're choosing this hill to defend should tell you that there's something here worth fighting over.
- JRJoe Rogan
My kid was going to school with a girl who was a they/them. She decided she was a they/them. And she demanded that they talk in they/them way. Like, you had to use, when you were referring to her, as a plural.
- MWMatt Walsh
Th-
- JRJoe Rogan
This girl wore makeup, dressed like a girl, just decided that she was a they/them, and would get angry if you misgendered her.
- MWMatt Walsh
And, and what-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, not calling her, her a plural.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. And what does that ... What does that mean? So, we, we have enough of a problem getting someone who identifies as a woman to tell us what a woman is, but ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. What's a they?
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. What do you, what do you ... Like, describe to me the feelings of being a they. Describe, you know ... Can you describe that? What is that, what is that experience like? And, uh, and any time you ask someone to do that, it immediately descends into, into incoherence. And also, by the way, the actual, uh, gender-neutral pronoun for an individual is it. It's not they. So it's interesting-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... that ... Well, nobody wants to be an it because it's dehumanizing.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's offensive.
- MWMatt Walsh
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
They wanna be a, a they. But yeah, you ha- ... If you're calling yourself non-binary, you have dehumanized yourself, because human beings exist in a, in a sex binary, male and female. If you're rejecting that, you are rejecting your human identity, and so you've already dehumanized yourself. You, you are actually an it. If it's true that you are not a male or female, then you are an it. We don't know what else to call you.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then, maybe more importantly, one, one of the things that you're doing when you're doing that is you're giving people ... Especially if you do it to young people. You're giving them an opportunity to be special and to get special treatment without any special act. They haven't done anything that warrants that unique behavior.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. I, I think that's a really important point. I think, I think that's, uh, that's actually so much of this that ... And, and, and people don't notice it. But a lot of this is, uh, is just, it's just standard narcissism.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
Especially, you listen to these ... You know, why is this so common among celebrities now? All the celebrities have, have, uh, trans kids and they're coming out as non-binary and whatever else. And then you listen to, like, Demi Lovato or whoever, and you, you listen to them explain why they're a they/them. It's always, "Well, I just, uh, I, I just ... I don't identify with these labels. I'm beyond that. I'm above that."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
It's like, these labels were good enough for billions of humans before you, but it's not good enough for you? That you can't find yourself there? But, but all these other billions of human beings, it was fine, they had no problem. But you're so special that we need to change the rules of the English language for you specifically. It's, it's incredibly egotistical.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's bizarre. It's like, i- if you feel that you're different than everyone else, you're still a female, you're just a different human being who happens to be a female. If you're so unique, go prove it with your actions. Prove-
- MWMatt Walsh
Right.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
instituted for prisoners, that they had done that in New Jersey just a year before that. And so this was just like, "What are you?" "I'm a boy." "Okay, you get to go to the boys' prison if you're a girl." If, "What are you?" "I'm a, I'm a girl." "You get to go to the girls' prison if you're a boy." Like, all you have to do is just say it.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, which is fucking madness when you're talking about someone who got arrested for fraud, has a fake Rolex, three criminal aliases.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, he would never lie, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) This is like-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... like a literal liar and a murderer. And you're like, "Well, he wouldn't lie about gender."
- MWMatt Walsh
That's a, it's impossible.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's no way someone scamming the system.
- MWMatt Walsh
Well, they, they have no, they really have no choice but to institute policies like this. Th- this is the corner they painted themselves into. It's like, 'cause, because if they, if they suggest that there's any... That you have to offer any proof at all, then that is to acknowledge that there's some sort of reality outside of the individual whim, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Um, even to say that, "Well, there has to be a letter from..." 'Cause this used to be the thing, that you've gotta get a letter from two health c- mental health providers who will affirm that this is true about you. Well, they, they don't even want that because then, well, who's to say, why does that person get to say? He's like, "Only I, I, I'm the only one who gets to determine my own biological identity." And, uh, and you end up with policies like that. And not surprising that George Soros is behind it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, Oregon is one of the weirder ones, because Oregon will allow places to prescribe testosterone to young girls when they're as young as 15 years old without consent from the parents at all.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's not another thing that you can get at 15-
- MWMatt Walsh
Of course not.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that's gonna change your life like that.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. And that might, that might change, because they are, you know, they are, uh, changing the ideas of, of consent that we've all agreed to, we all, we all understand. We all understand that children cannot consent. Even if they say yes to something, they're not really consenting, because they don't understand what they're doing. They don't have, they don't have a fully formed brain, you know? It's not-
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially taking hormones that-
- MWMatt Walsh
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that aren't natural to your body at 15 years old.
- MWMatt Walsh
And you're, and you're s- you're, you're sterilizing the kid. They're not gonna be able to have kids in the future. And you could say all you want, "Well, they, we, we told them that, and they were okay with it." At 15, they were okay with it? I mean...
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
You know, I, I had started having kids when I was 26. If you had asked me when I was 24, I would have said, "No, I don't want, I don't want any kids." You know, 'cause even-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... when I was 24, I couldn't imagine having a kid. I couldn't imagine wanting a kid. Now I have four kids. I can't imagine not having kids. But that's, that, those are the changes that happen. Even in your mid-20s-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... you know, people go through changes like that. So the idea that a 15-year-old can just resign from childbearing and that's supposed to be a meaningful choice, like they know what they're doing, it's, it's total madness.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now have you received offers to debate people that have differing opinions on this?
- MWMatt Walsh
Oh, no. Definitely-
- 1:00:00 – 1:11:06
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
ideologically rigid in people's minds, that someone would at least have the ego to step up and say, "I can counter these arguments, and I could be the person to publicly shame this person, and, and have a debate with them, and trounce them."
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
With facts and reality and opinions, and des- describe the shared experiences of these people that have gone through this, and it's greatly enhanced their lives. But no one's doing that.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. I mean, there have been, uh ... Right. They, they might post something on Twitter, or they'll, they'll say something in their own bubble. But to me directly, they're not gonna do it. I mean, even, even just getting media outlets to review the film. I, I thought ... I put this film out. I knew it was gonna be panned in, in corporate media, but I figured-
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it?
- MWMatt Walsh
Well, no, because they just ig- they just ignored it, you know? They just pretended it didn't exist. I mean, if you go to Rotten Tomatoes right now, I think we have something like, I don't know, five reviews or something. We've got thousands and thousands of, uh, of audience reviews, but we've got, I think, five reviews. And none of them are from the, from the major, um, media outlets, either. So, they're just ig- they're just ignoring it. But ...I don't think, they don't, they don't wanna se- it, they don't, they don't wanna sit down in an uncontrolled environment and, uh, and t- and talk to you because I think, again, that they know at some level that what they're saying doesn't make any sense. And that, and they also know that, they know they can't answer the question. You know, I've, I've staked everything on this what is a woman question and if one of them could come along and coherently answer it, then that would just, that would blow me out of the water. I mean, that's, everything's done then.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Um, and they've had all this time to come up with i- with an answer, and none of them have gone with it. So, they know, they're, they're not gonna sit down with you 'cause they know that it's, th- that's gonna be a big part of the conversation. Like if you, you gotta, we gotta start by you defining your terms. And if you can't do that, then I, I don't know how to talk to you if, if we can't define the terms.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they always wanna dismiss you as some far right talking point person. That's the, the first way they do it.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And to ignore your film seems to me to, you're, you're ignoring an opportunity to take something apart that you disagree with. Like, why would they do that? They do that with everything else. It's, one of, one of the more unique things is the, the igno- uh, they feel like things are moving in the right direction. It's almost like strategically it would be detrimental to engage with you, because they must understand that a lot of these belief systems that they've adhered to, they're, they're cult-like. It's ideological. It doesn't make sense. It's not, it's not grounded in reality. It's all, i- also, there are inherent dangers to doing this to children that are very difficult to ignore.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that parents are gonna resonate with, like instantaneously when they think about their children and how vulnerable children are and how malleable they are and how susceptible they are to cultural trends.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the fact that they won't engage with you on this, it really speaks volumes.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. I mean, i- it does. I think they also realize that, um... and we call it ideological and political. I think it's, it's, it's also, it's, it's a really a spiritual, it's like a religious claim. I mean, that this is a, gender ideology is a religion, I think. Um, it behaves in every way like a religion. And, um, it's actually interesting, it's kinda revealing that one thing you hear from the proponents is this claim that, um, actually, uh, there are analogs for transgenderism all across the world in other cultures and throughout history. That's what they al- they always say. Um, we tested this in the film. We went outside of the Western culture bubble. We went all the way to Africa, talked to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... a traditional tribe there about this stuff. And, um, and they were t- just... (laughs) they were, their, their minds were blown by it, in a bad way. Um, they had never encountered ideas like this before because, of course, these, you know, the, the, the gender binary is not a Western construct. Th- the rejection of the gender binary is a, is a Western construct. But, uh, going back to, you know, when they point to what, what are supposed to be analogs or other examples of this kinda thing in other cultures, sometimes they're just making it up. But then the o- there are, there are times when, when, you know, there might be a culture that has some notion of, like, you know, uh, m- maybe a man acting out the part of a woman or something like that. Th- that happens in other cultures. Cross-dressing, yeah, that exists in other cultures. But the difference is, number one, they don't... in those cultures, they don't think that the man actually is a woman. Like, they don't believe in pregnant men in those cultures. They know that he's acting out something. That's the point. And then the other point too is that in m- in these other cultures where this exists, very often it is like a religious, spiritual sort of thing. They talk about, um... in fact, they cl- they include it now in the LGBT acronym- acronym as Two-Spirit, which is supposed to be the, the, the, uh, Native American version of transgenderism.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MWMatt Walsh
Um, and that was invented in 1990 by gay activists, so it's not like this goes all the way back to the, you know, Comanches on the Great Plains. But even that, it's... think about the Two-Spirit. It's, it's a, it's a spiritual, it's a, it's a re- it, that's a religious thing. Um, which is really what they're doing here. This is really-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what the two is?
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, 2-S, Two-Spirit. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, in the LBGTIA2+...
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. 2-S, that's what, it's, yeah, it's, the l- the acronym has a-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the, that's what two is, is Two-Spirit.
- MWMatt Walsh
Two-Spirit. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a new one. How long is that gonna get?
- MWMatt Walsh
W- I mean, th- there's, there's no limit because they c- and, and also because the identities, the identities c- are, are becoming redundant, you know? They, they, they, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Like gay and queer.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, demisexual is one of the newer ones, I think.
Episode duration: 3:08:57
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