Joe Rogan Experience #1895 - Matt Walsh

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Matt Walsh 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Hello, Matt Walsh. Joe Rogan- Hi. ... nice to meet you. Yeah, you too. Officially. Um, your documentary's a, a w- it's- (sighs) I can't tell you how many people have asked me if I've seen it. It's- I think it's one of the most eye-opening things that's ever been done on this whole gender confusion thing that we're going through right now in our culture. And, it was just like one of those things where I- I had to watch. Like so many people were like, "You have to see this. You have to see this." And I expected it to be like- (deep breath) I mean, I- I thought it would be like arguments with people or it would be very, you know, very confrontational, but instead, I think you did it masterfully. What you did is you just let these people explain themselves the way they would talk if you weren't there. The way they would talk to people who agree with what they're saying. And by not pushing back, I think you allowed them to- to let all the crazy out. And it's like- it's- it's dis- it's hard to describe to people that aren't aware of what's going on- Yeah. ... of how wild this stuff has gotten. But first of all, tell me, what was the process of making this? Like how long did it take? What- what was the- what was the motivation behind it? (smacks lips) Yeah. Um, thanks for talking about it so much on your podcast, by the way. It's been, uh, it's been a huge boost for us. And we- you know, I- I had this idea- (sighs) you really have to go back several years, because it occurred to me maybe back in, I don't know, 2017 that, uh, when this- when this transgender stuff w- was starting to really gain mainstream traction, which I think happened really- that was like, uh, maybe when Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn Jenner. That was the- that was the moment that I think it exploded onto the mainstream. Not- not when it began, but it exploded onto the mainstream. Right around

Matt Walsh 2:06 that time, it- it sort of occurred to me that- that the people promoting this stuff have a- a problem, which is that we're- we're supposed to accept someone like Bruce as a woman, but then what- what exactly does that mean? What are we accepting him as? Like, he says, "I identify as a woman." Well, what are you identifying as? What are we if you're a woman? Well, I- I know what a woman was before, but if now we're including a guy like Bruce, then what is a woman now? And so, I started asking this question, it was really basic, just like, "What is a woman? What- what are you trying to say about womanhood now?" And, uh, couldn't get anyone to answer it. I mean, and mostly it's just on Twitter, you know? And, uh, challenging someone on the left, "Just give me a definition. What- what's your definition of the word?" And, um, none of them would do it, so at a certain point, I thought, "Well, we have to find a way to go out and put this question in front of them." Um, and that's sort of where the idea for the documentary came from. And- and we knew going in that we wanted- we wanted two things. Well, three things. One is we have the- we have the mission behind it, the- the message that we wanna get across. Uh, but we also want it to be a piece of enter- entertainment, you know? Because a lot of conservative documentaries, not all of them, but many of them are just- you feel like you're watching an extended version of a podcast or something. It's not- there's- it's not a piece of entertainment. So, we wanted it to be that. And then, we also knew that, uh, the way this is going to work, if it works at all is if I'm just asking questions and I'm- 'cause if I- if it's- if it's me going on a tour around the country yelling at people, that would be satisfying for me emotionally, but it just wouldn't- it wouldn't prove anything other than what people already know, which is that two sides yell at each other. Uh, so we wanted to give sort of gender ideology a chance to hang itself by its own incoherences, which is- which I think is what- what happened. T- I think you definitely accomplished that. And th- that- it's- it's so funny that that question, "What is a woman?" is so difficult to answer. And then they'll say, "Well, someone who identifies as a woman." And you said, "Well, what does that mean though?" Right, so then- And then, they wanna just stop talking. Like- Yeah. ... what- what was the- the politician that actually had you leave his office when you...? Yeah, we actually- we had a couple that, uh, stormed out, but only one made it on- on camera, and that was the- that was, um, uh, Mark Takano, congressman in, uh, California. And he's one of the- he's one of the advocates. There- there's a reason why- there's a reason we chose all these people. It wasn't just random. He's an advocate. He's not just a Democrat politician. He's an advocate for the Equality Act, which is, uh, this push by Democrats to kind of federalize all this stuff on a national level, so that all across the country, for example, men have the right to use the women's restroom and opens up all the sports teams and all that. It just settles it. Takes it away from the states. And so, he's an advocate of that, and he's a- so a good guy to talk to. And, um, we- we- he- he sat there for about 30 minutes, uh, especially when I'm asking him the easy questions, and he would give his like filibustering answer, but then once I started asking real questions, that's when he got really uncomfortable. Y- you could even see in the film, he keeps

Matt Walsh 5:07 looking over my shoulder, and that's because his aide is standing right behind my back the entire time. And, uh, but she never- I- I was- I kept expecting her to cut it off and- and shut it down, but she never did. And eventually, he just had enough of it and he got up and left. But the thing that made him leave was, I didn't even get to ask him the what is a woman question. I asked him, uh, I- I- I asked him, you know, there- there are males who want to use the women's restroom or the women's locker room, but then there are females who don't want to see an individual with a penis in the locker room, so you've got two competing claims here, two people who have feelings, the women who feel like they don't want to see this, it makes them feel bad to see it, and then the men who it makes them feel bad if they can't use the restroom. So, who wins out? How do you balance that? I think it's a fair question. And- It's a very good question. And that's when he just got up and said, "The interview's over," and walked out. Well, th- in those scenarios where- this is where women, particularly feminists who have always been like hardcore lefties, they're li- like they're finding themselves in this ideological quagmire. Yeah. They're like, they're- they're feminists-

Joe Rogan 6:09 ... they're pro-women's rights, they're on the left, and they're not anti-trans. But then all the sudden, this is getting imposed into their world, and they're told they have to accept it, or they're transphobic, regardless of this person's sexual history. Like, if this person is a sexual abuser, if this person is a, a, a, like a literally registered sex offender, they can go into certain places, dress like a woman, and use women's spaces.

Matt Walsh 6:38 Yeah. It's the Louise Spa case in, in Los Angeles.

Joe Rogan 6:40 Yes, that's exactly what it is. It's like, I mean, there's so many instances of people gaming the system, right? There's the prisoner who went to jail and immediately decided they were trans and impregnated two prisoners while they're in there.

Matt Walsh 6:53 Yeah. That, that's happening all over the country, by the way.

Joe Rogan 6:54 Yes.

Matt Walsh 6:55 And these, these women have no... You wanna talk about giving a voice to the voiceless? These women have no voice. They're in prison. What are they, who are they supposed to talk to? And, uh, and, and they're getting locked in a... Can you imagine that? You're a, a woman. Most... And many women who are in jail are in, are in jail for non-violent offenses. Um, and now they're in, locked in a cage 24 hours a day with men, many of them are sex offenders.

Joe Rogan 7:17 Well, that guy was a murderer.

Matt Walsh 7:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:19 I mean, that guy had murdered his foster care father, and the, the, the cops who went to the crime scene said it was the worst murder they had ever seen. He'd been stabbed from his face down to his ankles. Like, his... He'd just been stabbed an insane amount of times, just a-

Matt Walsh 7:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:36 ... bloodbath. This is the person that just decided right after getting arrested that they identify as a woman.

Matt Walsh 7:43 And, you know, the other thing to keep in mind too is that, yeah, there are men who are just gaming the system, as you point out. I think in prison, that's, that happens a lot, because they'd rather be in a women's prison than a men's prison. Uh, but also in general, like, there are different categories of, uh, of people who, who transition, and we kind of talk about them like they're all the same, but they're not. And you can kind of break it down by age, like there's the very young children, f- a five-year-old, and we hear that, "Oh, my five-year-old is trans." That's 1,000% the parent just deciding they're gonna do that to the child, because no child is gonna admit, no child even knows what that is, so you have to, you have to suggest that to them. Then you have the adolescent girls, and, you know, Abigail Shrier has written about this in her great book.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 8:22 Uh, and, and they're, that's the social contagion. They pick it up from society. But then there's the older men who are adults and decide one day that they're women, and for so many of them, this is a fetish. I mean, this is like the, uh, the thing we're not allowed to say or acknowledge, but it's totally true, that for most of, for most of these older men who decide that, "I'm a woman," it's a fetish. It's autogynephilia.

Joe Rogan 8:43 Yes.

Matt Walsh 8:43 They're, they're, they're, uh, enchanted by the idea of themselves as women. And so now, now we have to participate in your fetish? Like, you, you get off on the idea of being seen as a woman, and I have to be, I have to be a participant in that. It's r- it's really a, it's really d- degrading and, to all of us, you know, that, that we're all being forced into this.

Joe Rogan 9:04 Well, it's always been a, a psychological condition. It's always been known as being like a psychiatric condition, like it's a mental health issue.

Matt Walsh 9:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:13 And now, it's being accepted as a gender identity issue. Where it was always just like a weird kink that people had, and now you, you're, ag- reg- again, regardless of whether or not this person's a sex offender, registered sex offender, repeated sex offender, you have to accept this. Otherwise, you're a bigot. It's just this, this rigid adherence to ideology is so cult-like, it's so wi- it's so fucking Handsmaid Tale. It's, it's so wild that people are just wholesale adopting this. And this is not to deny that there's people that are trans. I've met people that are trans. It exists in nature. I mean, you occasionally, guys will shoot a buck and they'll find out that it's actually a female with antlers. Nature's weird, right? I think nature does put people, uh, make humans, for whatever reason, that really feel like they should have been born a female or should have been born a male. But that's not all of what's happening. And in our desire to be compassionate and to have care for these people and to, to l- love these people and respect these people, we're opening the door to all this chaos.

Matt Walsh 10:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:27 And I think that's what you highlight so well in this film, and it's just, it's so strange to me how so many people on the left, people that I've, you know, before this, I generally respected their opinion, just buy into it wholesale and will spout out things as if they're facts about how much this helps people and keeps people from killing themselves and, and, and, and helps kids. Like, but it's not true.

Matt Walsh 10:54 Yeah. It's not true. And the, and the, the suicide stuff is so, it's just so sinister, because this is the emotional blackmail that they, that they-

Joe Rogan 11:01 Yes.

Matt Walsh 11:01 ... tell parents. That, uh, you know, your daughter identifies as a, as your son now, and then the classic line, the now classic line is, "Would you rather have a, a dead daughter or a living son?" Like, you have to affirm this or your daughter's gonna kill themselves. And so many parents especially, you know, you go back a couple years when this conversation wasn't being had on a, uh, at a very visible level, they're, they just, they don't know what to do. They're just like, they- they're panicked. And, uh, they've just been told by a mental health provider who they trust that if they don't go along with their child's delusion, that their child's gonna commit suicide. So, I, I can understand when you're told that, that you're gonna kinda panic. But it's just, it's not true. Um, the evidence, in fact, tells us the opposite, that suicidality, we cover this in the film, Scott Newgent mentions it, that the, the only reliable long-term study we have on this sh- shows that suicidality is the highest after, years after transition. That's the highest point for suicidality among trans people. But the other problem too is that, is that there are a couple of maybe reliable long-term studies, but there aren't that many, because we haven't done this to people on this scale ever before in human history. So, the current crop of, uh, especially trans, quote unquote trans kids, they're the, the guinea pigs. They're the, we're experimenting on them.... and they're making a lot of ... the, the healthcare providers are making a lot of promises about how this is going to turn out when they can't possibly know this, because we've never done it before to people.

Joe Rogan 12:23 Well, that's the, one of the more sinister aspects of it for me, is the way they're encouraging hormone blockers and hormone transition for people that are going through puberty or haven't gone through puberty. It's just, uh, we don't have any long-term studies on this, and now they're finding that these hormone blockers aren't innocuous, and that they, they cause a lot of health problems. And they're, they're saying this now, out in the open-

Matt Walsh 12:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:47 ... when people have been, for years, the last few years, promoting this as if it's a pause button.

Matt Walsh 12:53 And that's ... and it's just absurd, because that's not, that's not how human biology works.

Joe Rogan 12:56 No.

Matt Walsh 12:57 I, I think there's a lot, a lot of what they claim, it just, i- i- it shouldn't, i- intuitively it doesn't make any sense. It, it defies common sense, even before you look at the data. Then you look at the data and you realize that, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But even before that, it ... you can't ... w- w- what, what's being claimed, that you can kind of put a child in a state of suspended animation, where they're l- l- they're kind of lingering on, on pause? That's not how the human body works. If you ... what you can do is try to suppress the human body's normal natural functions, but when you do that, it's a trade-off. There are consequences.

Joe Rogan 13:28 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 13:28 There are always consequences. That's how nature works. And, um, and we also know that one of the drugs they use, like, Lupron is a drug they use as a puberty blocker, and it's just a fact that this drug, number one, to begin with, is a cancer drug, originally for, for, for older men who have prostate cancer. And, uh, and they've also used it to chemically castrate sex offenders. I think in, uh, Georgia they've used it for that purpose. So, it's an actual chemical castration drugs, drug, used off-label for, you know, t- 10-year-old or 11-year-old, 12-year-old kids.

Joe Rogan 13:58 With no long-term data-

Matt Walsh 14:00 Right, because there can't be.

Joe Rogan 14:02 ... and they're promo- they're promoting it as this, this is the silver bullet. This is gonna fix you.

Matt Walsh 14:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:06 This is the thing that's gonna fix all your ails.

Matt Walsh 14:08 And the other thing they do is they, they say that, "Well, we don't, uh ..." because as this conversation has grown about, um, s- s- actual surgery for children, which is happening all across the country, but what they always say is that, "Well, that's not, you know, that, that's not really what's happening, especially younger kids. We just ... it's puberty blockers, not surgery." And yeah, it might be true that they're not performing actual surgeries on 12-year-olds at this point. You know, at least that hasn't, that's not a common practice, but what they don't tell you is that once you put the kid on this conveyor belt, um, they're gonna probably stay on it all the way to the surgery. You've put them in the system. You've put them on ... it is like a conveyor belt system, and they're most likely not gonna jump off. You start with the puberty blockers. Almo- in almost every case it's gonna lead to the, uh, to hormone therapy, and then in a great many cases, they go from there to, uh, to surgery. The other thing, too, is that you've ... as you're, as they're going along with these drugs, you are taking away ... you're sterilizing them, you're, you're oftentimes permanently taking away their future fertility. So, you know, you, you've taken away their capacity to ... like a girl. You've, you've, you've made it so she'll never be able to have kids in the future. You've already taken that from her. She, she has given it up before she even could know what she's even given up. Um, and then for her, it's kind of a logical process. "Well, I've already given that up, so I might as well go get the double mastectomy," and then all down the line.

Joe Rogan 15:25 (sighs) And then there's the, the euphoria that comes with taking testosterone that happens to them, like, almost immediately. They have a different feeling, and they go, "Oh, this is how I should have been all along. Now the medicine is helping me." It's, i- i- it's also if someone identifies as male or identifies as female, and this is just how they feel they are, what is th- like, what's the logical argument for starting to give them hormones that are not natural in their system?

Matt Walsh 15:55 I, I don't think there is a, a logical argument. Um, the only argument you ever hear from them, and I know because I've a- I've asked, is, uh, is the emotional blackmail argument, that it just you have to do it, because if you don't, they're going to kill the ... But, but, uh, another point about the suicide thing I wanna mention is that, you know, we, we know that trans identification has risen, in the youngest generation, has risen, like, 20 or 30-fold. Right? And what, what they tell us on the left is that, "Well, that's not social contagion. This is just people now feel comfortable to live their truth, so there's always been this many trans people. It's just that in the past they couldn't announce that to the world, because it was, it was an un-affirming society."

Joe Rogan 16:37 Right.

Matt Walsh 16:37 That's what they tell you. Well, if that's true, and you had, you had, you had, like, millions of trans people in the past who are living in these un-affirming societies, and we're also told that if you don't affirm trans people, it leads to suicide, then shouldn't we see, if we look back through history, just this unbroken mass epidemic across the world of people killing themselves en masse because they're not being affirmed as trans? That's not what we find. Shouldn't we see, like ... you know, you, you should, you should be able to go back to 1850 and find millions of kids killing themselves because it turns out they were trans and not being affirmed. But s- child suicide almost, like, didn't exist up until very recently. Um, it was basically unheard of. So, it's just ... everything they say d- just ... when you, when you, when you apply a little bit of common sense, it all starts to break down.

Joe Rogan 17:24 When do you think this sh- do you think it's the Caitlyn Jenner thing that shifted it? Like, when did this become a big part of the cultural narrative? Because I would have never imagined, if you came up to me 20 years ago and said, "In 20 years from now, like, g- gender identity will be one of the big points of contention in our culture, among politics."

Matt Walsh 17:47 Yeah, I, I think it ... you kinda decide where you wanna start, because like in the film, we go back to, uh, Alfred Money and, uh, or Alfred Kinsey and John Money.

Joe Rogan 17:56 Right.

Matt Walsh 17:56 That's mid-20th Century. So, these ideas were out there. I mean, these are the guys who came up with ... like, they, the phrase "gender identity" was invented by, by these guys.

Joe Rogan 18:04 Kinsey was a wild dude.

Matt Walsh 18:06 Y- y- yeah. He was. They, they both, they both were. They were degenerate pedophiles. Um, and it, it's clear in both of the, especially Kinsey, it's pretty clear that he had his, uh, sexual...... fetishes and fascinations, and he wanted to prove to himself that he's not weird, because everyone's like this.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 18:23 And so, he, he goes out and, uh, y- you know, he, he declares... I think he said that 10% of adult males are gay or something like that. And, uh, and then you find out that he's, he's m- mostly serving prisoners and sex offenders and, you know, people like that. He's not, he's not going to just a, uh, a normal intersection of, of, of Americans. So, you go back to those guys, but I think ... what's, what's the moment when all this exploded into the mainstream? It kind of ... it was, like, seeded into our institutions, and then there was a moment when it, when it all became mainstream. And I don't know if Bruce Jenner is the definite starting point, but I do think that that was a, uh, a pivotal, pivotal moment. It was a pivotal moment, not just because now the media is celebrating this, but also because conservatives, you know, had an opportunity right then and there to, to, to take a stand against this, to recognize it for what it is, for the threat that it is, and to take a firm stand. And I think so many conservatives didn't, because they just imagined that this is ... either they don't wanna get in trouble, be called a transphobe, or they just thought it's sort of a sideshow. And, um, and so they just ... many conservative, uh, basically ignored it, up until-

Joe Rogan 19:28 I don't think anybody realized it was gonna get this big.

Matt Walsh 19:32 Yeah. I, I think a lot of people didn't, but, I mean ... it, it should have been, it should have been more clear. I guess woulda, coulda, shoulda, but it, it should have been more clear because this was a, this was ... they're waging an assault on, like, basic, fundamental reality, and, uh, so it goes way beyond. This is not just about gender. This is about reality. That's why in the film, every conversation I had with someone on that side of it, every single one devolved into this, "Well, what is truth? And who's truth? And how do you know what truth is?" And-

Joe Rogan 20:04 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 20:05 You know, so I'm sitting in the same room as someone and, and, and th- but I can't get them to acknowledge that we exist in the same reality. We can share a room, but we, but we don't share a, a reality. You know, I, I had ... there was ... in the film, there's one woman that we talked to on the street, and she was giving me this, "We all have our own truth," thing. And then I said, uh, "Well, what if it's my truth that you don't exist?" And she said, "Well, then I don't exist."

Joe Rogan 20:28 (laughs)

Matt Walsh 20:28 Like, she was willing to j- erase her own existence, if that's how I perceive it. It's to- it's totally incoherent.

Joe Rogan 20:34 I found out about a- the, the w- the r- the reaction that people have to this and how strongly they're committed to this when there was a transgender fighter that was, uh-

Matt Walsh 20:47 Falcon.

Joe Rogan 20:47 ... hiding the fact ... Fallon Fox was hiding the fact that they were biologically male and competed twice as a woman, beaten the fuck out of these women. And I was like, "This is crazy." Like, you can't ... and then ... and trying to say that it was just a medical procedure. And when I, I thought, rightly, got angry at it, I saw all these articles written, all these pieces about how transphobic my position was and what a horrible person I was. And like, w- we're, we're literally talking about someone not telling someone. I said that, look, if you are a, a transgender athlete and you tell someone, "Hey, I, uh, was biologically male, but now I identify as a female. Would you like to fight?" And that person still says yes, all in. Go ahead. Have fun. Just like I think you should be able to ride bulls and go dirt biking and skydiving. Do whatever wild, dangerous shit you wanna do. But to hide the fact that you're biologically male and you were a male for 30-plus years, that was madness to me.

Matt Walsh 21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 But they had already drawn this line in the sand. And I was ... I remember arguing with someone on Twitter about it, when this woman said, "She was always a woman." I go, "Even when this person impregnated a woman and had a child with them." She's like, "Even then." Like, even then. She stuck her penis in a woman, got her pregnant-

Matt Walsh 22:12 That's a science. Follow the science. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:14 ... became a father, and even that, during that act, she was a woman. Like, what are ... exactly what is a woman? What the fuck are we talking about?

Matt Walsh 22:22 They, they ... what they're really saying is that this person ... they're talking about self-perception, like, this person perceived himself that way. But s- but self-perception is not always reality. There's like ... of course, we all re- ... in, in most other contexts, we recognize that a person can have a self-perception that just is not true, it's just inaccurate. I mean, you, you could walk down the street, uh, in any city and find drug-addled homeless people talking to themselves, and if you were to ask them about themselves, you're gonna find ... they're gonna say a lot of things that just don't line up with reality. Uh, and in every other context, we're allowed to acknowledge that, even in medical contexts. I mean, uh, someone who has b- body dysmorphia in the form of, uh, anorexia. You know, a young woman goes to the doctor and she's 90 pounds, and she says, "I, I feel like I'm a 300-pound, you know, fat ass."

Joe Rogan 23:11 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 23:12 The doctor, doctor is not going to affirm that and say, "Well, if that's how you feel, that's how you ..." Uh, fatness is on a spectrum. I mean, th- they're not gonna give her diet pills. They're going to-

Joe Rogan 23:19 But, but why gender? Like, why is gender this ideological battleground? Like, how the fuck did that become this thing where it's, it's encouraging, like, this cult-like mentality, where you cannot ... uh, e- even though things are clearly odd, th- clear- clearly don't make any sense. They don't s- they don't fit with logical reality. You have to adhere to whatever this ideology is promu- promoting.

Matt Walsh 23:47 I think it's, it's ... I mean, on a mo- uh, most basic level, I think that this is a, it's a ... like I said, it's an attack on, on truth. And this is ... you know, if you want to, uh ... if your project is kind of ... is relativism, and you wanna get rid of, uh, objective ideas of truth, what are you gonna go after? I mean, if you can go after someone's really fundamental, uh, t- understanding of themselves, it's, it's not just that they're attacking reality. It's like they're attacking the reality of the self, and so they're depriving a person of the ability to understand their own th- themselves. Um, and once you do that, if you're successful on a societal level, then it's sort of like y- it ... the sky's the limit. You can go anywhere from there.... I think.

Joe Rogan 24:31 So, do you think this is, like, a conscious decision, or do you think this is just something that people have adopted because it seems to be the ideology du jour?

Matt Walsh 24:40 I think it's, uh, it, it depends on who you're talking about. I mean, uh, at an institutional level, I think it, I think a lot of it is conscious. I think some of the people that I talked about, talked to in the film, I think that they, they know that this doesn't make any sense and that it's wrong. Uh, and, and I think because they have to know it. You know? If you're a doctor, like, you, you do have a basic understanding of male and female. You must. That you wouldn't have been able to get through medical school if you don't. So, I think that for them, it's intensely ideological. It's also, it's also profit-driven. They've got... They're making a lot of money off of this. You know? If a, if a six-year-old boy says, "I feel like I'm a girl," and the response to the boy is, "No, you're a boy, and that's, that's what you are, and that's okay," and he'll get over it, and he'll get over it because it's just a phase, and he'll live a normal life, and that's fine. But there's not... There's no money in that. Whereas, if you encourage the delusion, now that boy individually is worth millions of dollars down the line to, uh, therapists and doctors and endocrinologists and surgeons and everything.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 25:33 So, I think it's, I think it's profit-driven, and then there... And then there's also just a lot of actual confusion out there. People don't really understand what's going on. And then there's cowardice, too. People are, are just terrified, you know? We... I- I've certainly seen a lot of that. People just are... They are scared shitless about being accused of bigotry.

Joe Rogan 25:52 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 25:53 Uh, losing their social media platforms, losing their jobs, losing their friends. I get this question all the time everywhere I go. Um, "Well, how do I deal with this at my job? Because if I reveal that I understand reality at my job, I'll lose my job, or I'll lose my family."

Joe Rogan 26:06 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 26:06 You know? It's... This is what people are dealing with.

Joe Rogan 26:08 And it is what people are dealing w- dealing with. It r- rea- That really is what's happening-

Matt Walsh 26:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:12 ... which is one of the more confusing aspects of this, is that there's no logical discussion about this. It's just you are either on the good side, or you're a bigot, and that's the binary.

Matt Walsh 26:25 Yeah. But... And, and that's because they, they know that they can't... The people that are pushing this stuff know that they can't def- defend it. They can't defend it int- intellectually. They also feel like they shouldn't have to. I think that they... Some of the people we talked to at What Is a Woman?, it, it's... They were all... They were offended that we were even questioning them, because from their perspective, especially if you're a college professor or something, the relationship is supposed to be, "I pontificate, and you just sit there slack-jawed and nod your head-

Joe Rogan 26:51 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 26:51 ... and, and, and go along with it." So, they feel like they shouldn't have to defend it. But they also know that they can't, and so, uh, what are you left with? You're left with speech suppression, scaring people. That's, that's the only tool in your, in your, um, bag, and it's been really effective, unfortunately, so far.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Now, what has the response to your film been? What's it been like? Uh, w-

Matt Walsh 27:11 And it s-

Joe Rogan 27:12 ... was c- Is... Was anything surprising?

Matt Walsh 27:15 I guess I would say I was surprised by the... By just how, um... By just how big the, the, the response was. I knew we had something. You know, I knew it was a good... It was an i- I knew, I knew we had something with the idea, and then once we filmed all the footage, before we even put it together, I'm like, "I, I know we have something explosive here." But you never know exactly how people will respond to something, because it's the first time I've been involved in a, in a film myself. So, um, I was, I was expecting a, a big reaction, but not quite to the extent that we got. Um, and across the spectrum, too, because, you know, I knew that our audience at The Daily Wire would love the film and appreciate it. But, uh, it's, it's gone way beyond that. I mean, I hear from people who tell me that they're... They identify as liberal, or they're independent, they're not ideological. They saw the film. They tell everyone to watch it. You know, I f- I h- I hear that all the time from people.

Joe Rogan 27:58 Well, that's where I got it from. I got it from a, a liberal mother.

Matt Walsh 28:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:02 She was one of the first people to tell me about it, and she's concerned about it, because she sees children in her s- kids' school that are identifying in this way, and she has this fear that it's a social contagion. But she also feels the suppression of that idea, like that other parents, if she brings it up with them, they're either dismissive, or they don't wanna talk about it. And she's like, "Jesus Christ, it feels like, like people are under a spell."

Matt Walsh 28:26 Yeah, it, it does feel like that. It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers or something.

Joe Rogan 28:29 Exactly.

Matt Walsh 28:30 It, it, uh, it does. And the other thing that I hear from people about the, the movie... Probably the number one, uh, piece of feedback I get is that, uh, they just didn't realize it was this... They didn't, they didn't realize how, how bad it was or how pervasive it was. I think a lot... Even, uh, even people that I thought were sort of, uh, politically engaged on the right, I hear the same thing. It's like, "I d- I didn't know that it was this bad. I didn't know that it was... That it had gone to this extent."

Joe Rogan 28:54 Well, when Jordan Peterson s- first started talking about compelled speech and compelled use of pronouns, I re- um, remember people thinking, like, "Why do you care about this? This is, like, such a small issue with a marginalized group of people. Like, let them have their identity and use the pronouns they want." And, you know, this was like... What was it? 2015? 2016? And I remember his warning, and I remember many other people, like, "This is going to spill over." Like this... If you can enforce this on a professor, and if you can enforce compelled speech. 'Cause Canada doesn't have the same free speech law as we do in America.

Matt Walsh 29:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:32 And if you can... Like, where does it go? How are you compelling it? Well, it means through violence or through police or through the, the, the, the fear of being arrested, the fear of having your job taken away from you. Like, this is literally what happens when you use laws to compel people. Like, you have to have some sort of a punishment if they don't, they don't follow through, if they don't follow your orders. And this is what he was worr- worrying about. And I remember at the time being like, "I hope he's wrong." Like, "I hope it doesn't get that big." But now here we are, seven years later-

Matt Walsh 30:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:05 ... and he was right.

Matt Walsh 30:07 Because there's also a difference between telling people they can't say something, which is what free speech suppression usually is, uh, and that's bad enough, but then telling people that they, that they have to say something-

Joe Rogan 30:19 Yes.

Matt Walsh 30:19 ... compelling them to actually say something, putting words in their mouth and telling them, "You have to say this." Um, and it's not just... It's not, it's not a... You know, pronouns, it's not a small thing, because when you, when you use the she for a he, uh, you're not only being forced to say something, but you're, you're being forced to...... affirm and acquiesce to a claim that you don't agree with. You're, you're being forced to express a belief that's not yours. I mean, it's like, uh, it, it's not much different from, y- you know, a, a dictatorship forcing someone to profess belief in a religion. You know? Forced ... It's like, it's forced conversion, basically, is what it is.

Joe Rogan 30:55 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 30:56 Um, and, uh, and o- once you allow that, it doesn't matter. Of course it's gonna start somewhere small. It's just pronouns. It always starts that way. But, but like I said, it's, it's also, it's actually not small. Pronouns are ... There's a reason why the left makes a big deal out of it. So any- any time people on the right say, "Oh, it's not a big deal," in response to the left making a big deal about something, well, they wouldn't be making a big deal about it if it wasn't a big deal. Th- the fact that they, that th- that they're choosing this hill to defend should tell you that there's something here worth fighting over.

Joe Rogan 31:25 My kid was going to school with a girl who was a they/them. She decided she was a they/them. And she demanded that they talk in they/them way. Like, you had to use, when you were referring to her, as a plural.

Matt Walsh 31:38 Th-

Joe Rogan 31:38 This girl wore makeup, dressed like a girl, just decided that she was a they/them, and would get angry if you misgendered her.

Matt Walsh 31:47 And, and what-

Joe Rogan 31:48 Like, not calling her, her a plural.

Matt Walsh 31:50 Yeah. And what does that ... What does that mean? So, we, we have enough of a problem getting someone who identifies as a woman to tell us what a woman is, but ...

Joe Rogan 31:56 Right. What's a they?

Matt Walsh 31:57 Yeah. What do you, what do you ... Like, describe to me the feelings of being a they. Describe, you know ... Can you describe that? What is that, what is that experience like? And, uh, and any time you ask someone to do that, it immediately descends into, into incoherence. And also, by the way, the actual, uh, gender-neutral pronoun for an individual is it. It's not they. So it's interesting-

Joe Rogan 32:18 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 32:18 ... that ... Well, nobody wants to be an it because it's dehumanizing.

Joe Rogan 32:20 That's offensive.

Matt Walsh 32:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:21 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 32:21 They wanna be a, a they. But yeah, you ha- ... If you're calling yourself non-binary, you have dehumanized yourself, because human beings exist in a, in a sex binary, male and female. If you're rejecting that, you are rejecting your human identity, and so you've already dehumanized yourself. You, you are actually an it. If it's true that you are not a male or female, then you are an it. We don't know what else to call you.

Joe Rogan 32:40 And then, maybe more importantly, one, one of the things that you're doing when you're doing that is you're giving people ... Especially if you do it to young people. You're giving them an opportunity to be special and to get special treatment without any special act. They haven't done anything that warrants that unique behavior.

Matt Walsh 32:59 Yeah. I, I think that's a really important point. I think, I think that's, uh, that's actually so much of this that ... And, and, and people don't notice it. But a lot of this is, uh, is just, it's just standard narcissism.

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yes.

Matt Walsh 33:09 Especially, you listen to these ... You know, why is this so common among celebrities now? All the celebrities have, have, uh, trans kids and they're coming out as non-binary and whatever else. And then you listen to, like, Demi Lovato or whoever, and you, you listen to them explain why they're a they/them. It's always, "Well, I just, uh, I, I just ... I don't identify with these labels. I'm beyond that. I'm above that."

Joe Rogan 33:28 (laughs)

Matt Walsh 33:28 It's like, these labels were good enough for billions of humans before you, but it's not good enough for you? That you can't find yourself there? But, but all these other billions of human beings, it was fine, they had no problem. But you're so special that we need to change the rules of the English language for you specifically. It's, it's incredibly egotistical.

Joe Rogan 33:49 It's bizarre. It's like, i- if you feel that you're different than everyone else, you're still a female, you're just a different human being who happens to be a female. If you're so unique, go prove it with your actions. Prove-

Matt Walsh 34:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:02 ... it with your work. Prove it out there in the world. But to demand this very special attention. And th- and that's what we give people. Like, if you give people that thing today, they'll tell ... Th- there's groups of people that will tell you, "You're amazing, you're incredible, you're beautiful, you're brave." It gives them positive affirmation for making these decisions.

Matt Walsh 34:24 It's also, it's also, uh ... A part of what you're describing is, is personality, right? I mean, it, it ... So, if you're saying, "Oh, I'm a, I'm a female but I don't identify with girly things and I don't like the color pink," and whatever, okay, that's your personality.

Joe Rogan 34:39 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 34:39 And, and it's fine. There, there are many ways to be a woman. There are many ways to be a man. Th- there's, like, almost infinite ways of doing it, because each man and woman has their own personality, their own perspective of the world, and that's fine. So I, I think that w- what I'm expressing is more ... The, the kind of traditional idea is much more, uh, expansive, because it allows you, as a man, to just, you know, be, be who you are -- you're still a man -- but be who you are. The, the idea now is that if you're ... Well, if you're a man but you, um, you have interests or ideas that fall outside of the standard norm, now you lose your manhood. You're actually a woman. So they're actually reinforcing the gender binary while, while trying to destroy it at the same time, which is interesting. But mo- ... I think most of what they're trying to describe is actually just personality.

Joe Rogan 35:23 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 35:23 And now we have this situation where, you know, you could have a person who has five different genders and six sexual orientations, but no personality, because their personality has been subsumed by all of these labels. They've categorized and labeled and ev- everything, and, and it's, uh, it's really strange.

Joe Rogan 35:39 The, uh, art exhibit recently where the girls threw soup on the van Gogh. Y- you know about that story?

Matt Walsh 35:44 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:45 The, they asked, uh ... Someone was interviewing them. Oh, Patrick Bet-David was interviewing them and asked them, uh, "Well, can I ask what your pronouns are?" And she said she was he, she, they.

Matt Walsh 35:57 He, she, and they. So sh-

Joe Rogan 35:58 I go, "So you're masculine, you're feminine, and you're plural."

Matt Walsh 36:01 She's all of them.

Joe Rogan 36:02 (laughs) She's everything.

Matt Walsh 36:03 But-

Joe Rogan 36:03 She's basically like a Hindu god (laughs) . It's like, like, "What are you?"

Matt Walsh 36:07 This is just laziness. At least choose one.

Joe Rogan 36:09 It's just pompous nonsense. It's just ... The, uh ... In that particular case, thinking that you're gonna fucking cure climate change by throwing soup on a priceless painting and then gluing yourself to a wall.

Matt Walsh 36:24 And also, what does it tell you that the person interviewing her knew that she definitely has different pronouns? Like-

Joe Rogan 36:30 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 36:30 ... you just, you just know.

Joe Rogan 36:31 For sure.

Matt Walsh 36:31 It, it comes with the, with the package, which tells you-

Joe Rogan 36:34 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 36:34 ... again, that this is, uh, an ideological and political thing. It's not an actual-... identity.

Joe Rogan 36:38 If you were one of those people that thought that there was a, a literal attack on the foundations of this country to tr- try to destroy it from the youth up, what better way to do it than with social media reinforcing all this stuff? I mean, how many, how many TikTok videos have you seen? Like, Libs of TikTok-

Matt Walsh 36:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:58 ... is a fucking insane account, and so many people get so angry at that account. She's not creating anything, she's curating.

Matt Walsh 37:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:07 So, she's finding all these videos that absolutely exist, and you're angry that someone puts these videos that actually exist of people actually saying insane things about recruiting kids and about, you know, teaching kids things in class that makes parents upset about gender, and that all your kids are gonna be trans, and all, all these videos that she's posted. And people are furious, calling it this hard right, you know, far right account of hate mongering account. Like-

Matt Walsh 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 ... it's a curated account. They're just, she's just finding insane shit that kids are actually being exposed to, en masse, and, and bringing it to people that may not be aware of it.

Matt Walsh 37:51 Which is journalism.

Joe Rogan 37:52 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 37:52 That's why I, I really think Libs of TikTok is one of the most important journalists in America, right? One, one of the only ones, because there's not, there, there aren't many journalists out there that are actually doing their jobs of finding things people don't know about and alerting them to it, because that's what you're supposed to do. But I think a lot of it is, is, uh, yeah, these are things that people post on their own. Also, when she posts, um, uh, s- stuff from a, you know, children's hospital saying-

Joe Rogan 38:14 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 38:14 ... that these are the, these are the procedures we perform on kids, they're just reposting what the hospital said themselves.

Joe Rogan 38:20 Yes.

Matt Walsh 38:20 But the point is that it's, they don't want us to see it.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Exactly.

Matt Walsh 38:24 So, the children's hospital, they've got it on their website, and they want only the people who have already bought it. 'Cause if, if you're going to a children's hospital's website to look up gender affirmation care, quote-unquote, then most of the time, you've already bought in. And so, they want you to see that. Uh, TikTok, they, they look at that as, like, it's all the young, progressive people, um, and they're okay with them seeing it. But they don't want, uh, us outside of those bubbles to see these things.

Joe Rogan 38:46 Yeah, and the idea is against it, is that it's misrepresenting, that she's, uh, unfairly highlighting these radical people that are th- not the norm. But, like, says who? Says who? These are just w- all you're doing is looking at real videos. Like, if you look, look at Project Veritas, and you catch Twitter employees talking about how they silence conservatives, and they have, like, some hidden camera. The, the argument, "Oh, they caught those people off camera." Like, how do you fucking know? Are you talking to them? Like, this is our only window into this.

Matt Walsh 39:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:19 Like, to deny that you get a chance to see a doctor saying, "Oh, we'll, we'll, we'll get a kid in at 16. It's okay." "Well, I thought you only do it at 18." "No, we'll do 16." Like, they've said that before. Like, so we will accept minors for surgery.

Matt Walsh 39:33 Yeah. Yeah, that's w- w- when we, uh ... It ... In Nashville, we got Vanderbilt Hospital, and, uh, they were doing this, this stuff to kids too. And, um, I did my own Libs of TikTok routine, where I put, on Twitter, I had this whole thread outlining what, what Vanderbilt, all the, all the services they provide. And, um, and I was accused of the same thing. "Oh, you're taking it out of context," or, "This is, this is misinformation." It's like, I, I'm s- this is, I'm d- documented. This is what they said. This is on their website. I have the documents. I have the videos. And, uh, they said all that, but then the interesting thing is that after the, uh, after we reported on it and it was this big deal, Vanderbilt Hospital, after a couple weeks, sent a letter to our state legislators saying that they're gonna put a pause on gender affirmation surgery for, for minors. Well, if you're pausing it, it ... I- I thought it wasn't happening. 'Cause if you're pausing it, it means that it was happening.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Right.

Matt Walsh 40:22 Um, because of course, it is h- it is happening. Especially, the, the, uh ... Another thing that they, they do to kind of obfuscate is they say, "Well, uh, genital surgeries are not happening to minors." And even that isn't true, because that is happening, but that is more rare. What is much more common are, uh, double mastectomies on minors. And that's, and that is very common, and that's happening in almost every state in the country at, uh, at, you know, exponentially increasing rates. And we're, we're, we are, you know, you're taking the body parts away from girls without them understanding, again, what they're actually giving up or what the, uh, what the consequences will be in the future.

Joe Rogan 40:59 And especially knowing what we know about the human mind and the development of the human mind, that, you know, your frontal lobe's not even fully formed 'til you're in your 20s.

Matt Walsh 41:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:08 To make, to give these people this ... E- even to give them the option to change your life forever irrevocably, y- you're going to give them a surgery. You're gonna allow them to have a surgery, or force them to have a surgery, or encourage them to have a surgery that's gonna change their life forever. You don't allow them to do that with anything. You can't even get fucking tattooed.

Matt Walsh 41:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:31 You can't get tattooed until you're 18.

Matt Walsh 41:33 Yeah, I mean, when I was growing up, I, I remember the job of adults was always to stop us from doing all the incredibly stupid things we always wanted to do.

Joe Rogan 41:41 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 41:42 Especially as you become a teenager, you're hormonal, you're, uh, you know, you're impulsive. And so, the jobs of an adult is to be the guiding force, to be a, to be, you know, to provide insight, to be a, a source of maturity. But they've just abdicated that completely. I mean, I, I was ... Dwyane Wade has a quote-unquote trans kid, the M- the NBA player. And, um, and now his, his ex-wife has come out and said that she, that he thinks, that she thinks that he has sort- is encouraging this and has imposed it on his son and is ... So, so he can profit off of it, which, which seems like a fair theory to me. But anyway, there was an interview he did where he was on a red carpet somewhere, and he was being praised by the journalist saying, "Oh, you're so great. D- do you have advice for parents out there?" And he said that, "Yeah, your, your job as a parent is to sit back and see where your kids want to go and go there with them." And I'm thinking ... I mean, I have four kids, and if, if I-... adopted that strategy as a parent, all of my kids would be dead by the time they're two years old. Like, sit back and see where they wanna go and just go with them? That's, that's, that's, that's like the opposite of your job as a parent. Your job as a parent is to be... You, you can listen to what they want, but then you are going to... You, you, you have their desires and their opinions, and you're filtering it through your own understanding, your, your much superior understanding of reality, and, uh, then you decide what, what makes sense for them to, to do.

Joe Rogan 43:05 Yeah, that's a ridiculous notion, that you're just supposed to sit back and watch. You're supposed to have wisdom. You're supposed to have a, a life lived longer and more knowledge, more information, and you do your very best to help them develop and find their own way through life, while protecting them from dangers and from things that they don't understand yet.

Matt Walsh 43:25 And protecting them from s- from themselves-

Joe Rogan 43:27 Yes.

Matt Walsh 43:27 ... oftentimes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:27 Yes. And, you know, there's this notion that this is the one time where we're supposed to abandon all these principles when it comes to gender. That's what's so confusing. The, uh, th- there's, there's a political push for this that comes from the left, and one of the things that I found when I was going over that, uh, prisoner case, uh, was that the, the whole thing about it where, um, they all- made it, made it optional, it was, um... I'm trying to find this fucking article. I know I saved it. But the, the, the story about it was that it was, uh, something that George Soros was involved with. Yeah.

Matt Walsh 44:12 That wouldn't surprise me.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Yeah. I'm gonna find it here. H- so the, that person has a website, uh, and you can go to the website, and it's like Justice for Demi. They call themselves Demi now, you know, and again, this is the person that stabbed, stabbed their, uh, foster father 27 times at age 16, and then, you know, afterwards got arrested and said that they were female. But that it was, uh, a part of, uh, a program that was like a gender self ID. That was the, uh, the program behind it. Yeah. Gender self ID policy, and, uh, by George Soros Open Society Foundations. So that-

Matt Walsh 44:53 Of course.

Joe Rogan 44:53 They're the ones who pushed this through in New Jersey.

Matt Walsh 44:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:56 So gender self ID is like a policy that they, they instituted for prisoners, that they had done that in New Jersey just a year before that. And so this was just like, "What are you?" "I'm a boy." "Okay, you get to go to the boys' prison if you're a girl." If, "What are you?" "I'm a, I'm a girl." "You get to go to the girls' prison if you're a boy." Like, all you have to do is just say it.

Matt Walsh 45:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:18 Like, which is fucking madness when you're talking about someone who got arrested for fraud, has a fake Rolex, three criminal aliases.

Matt Walsh 45:25 Yeah, he would never lie, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:26 (laughs) This is like-

Matt Walsh 45:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:27 ... like a literal liar and a murderer. And you're like, "Well, he wouldn't lie about gender."

Matt Walsh 45:32 That's a, it's impossible.

Joe Rogan 45:33 There's no way someone scamming the system.

Matt Walsh 45:35 Well, they, they have no, they really have no choice but to institute policies like this. Th- this is the corner they painted themselves into. It's like, 'cause, because if they, if they suggest that there's any... That you have to offer any proof at all, then that is to acknowledge that there's some sort of reality outside of the individual whim, you know?

Joe Rogan 45:56 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 45:57 Um, even to say that, "Well, there has to be a letter from..." 'Cause this used to be the thing, that you've gotta get a letter from two health c- mental health providers who will affirm that this is true about you. Well, they, they don't even want that because then, well, who's to say, why does that person get to say? He's like, "Only I, I, I'm the only one who gets to determine my own biological identity." And, uh, and you end up with policies like that. And not surprising that George Soros is behind it.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Well, Oregon is one of the weirder ones, because Oregon will allow places to prescribe testosterone to young girls when they're as young as 15 years old without consent from the parents at all.

Matt Walsh 46:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:29 There's not another thing that you can get at 15-

Matt Walsh 46:33 Of course not.

Joe Rogan 46:33 ... that's gonna change your life like that.

Matt Walsh 46:35 Yeah. And that might, that might change, because they are, you know, they are, uh, changing the ideas of, of consent that we've all agreed to, we all, we all understand. We all understand that children cannot consent. Even if they say yes to something, they're not really consenting, because they don't understand what they're doing. They don't have, they don't have a fully formed brain, you know? It's not-

Joe Rogan 46:58 Especially taking hormones that-

Matt Walsh 47:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:00 ... that aren't natural to your body at 15 years old.

Matt Walsh 47:03 And you're, and you're s- you're, you're sterilizing the kid. They're not gonna be able to have kids in the future. And you could say all you want, "Well, they, we, we told them that, and they were okay with it." At 15, they were okay with it? I mean...

Joe Rogan 47:13 Right.

Matt Walsh 47:13 You know, I, I had started having kids when I was 26. If you had asked me when I was 24, I would have said, "No, I don't want, I don't want any kids." You know, 'cause even-

Joe Rogan 47:20 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 47:20 ... when I was 24, I couldn't imagine having a kid. I couldn't imagine wanting a kid. Now I have four kids. I can't imagine not having kids. But that's, that, those are the changes that happen. Even in your mid-20s-

Joe Rogan 47:29 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 47:29 ... you know, people go through changes like that. So the idea that a 15-year-old can just resign from childbearing and that's supposed to be a meaningful choice, like they know what they're doing, it's, it's total madness.

Joe Rogan 47:42 Now have you received offers to debate people that have differing opinions on this?

Matt Walsh 47:48 Oh, no. Definitely-

Joe Rogan 47:49 No.

Matt Walsh 47:49 ... no, no. I, I would love to. I've, I've challenged, I've put the, put the challenge out there. Why... I go around to college campuses. We're, we're on a college campus tour right now screening the film, and, um, everywhere I go, of course there's protests and everything, but it's a YAFF Tour, and uh, Young Americas for Freedom and, and the p- the policy there is if you're in the room for the lecture when we get to the Q&A portion, if you disagree, you move right to the front of the line. And, um, but no one... They'll, they'll stand outside with signs and they'll scream and, uh, at one of the most recent ones I was at, they were tearing pages out of a Bible and eating them. So that's...

Joe Rogan 48:23 (laughs)

Matt Walsh 48:23 So they'll eat, they will eat the Bible.

Joe Rogan 48:25 (laughs)

Matt Walsh 48:26 Uh, but they won't come in and, and like, just talk to me.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Isn't that in the Bible? (laughs)

Matt Walsh 48:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:30 That might be in the Bible.

Matt Walsh 48:32 I don't know. It's just-

Joe Rogan 48:33 (laughs) That'd be the sign of the apocalypse, people are eating the Bible.

Matt Walsh 48:36 It, it might have a kind of an Exorcist, like an exorcism type effect.

Joe Rogan 48:38 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 48:38 I don't know. We'll see, but...

Joe Rogan 48:39 What the fuck?

Matt Walsh 48:41 Yeah, but they w- they, no, they don't, they don't wanna, uh-... they only want to talk to you if you're a conservative, if they think they can roll you. Like, that's the, these are the conservatives that are allowed to go on CNN and all the rest of it. They think that, they, they, they believe that you're gonna play the patsy, but if you make it clear that you're not gonna play that role, then they have no interest.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Did you see that Jon Stewart, uh, very confrontational interview that he had with the, that woman who was-

Matt Walsh 49:04 Yeah, that whole, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... bizarre.

Matt Walsh 49:06 Yeah. The, the, the whole, the whole episode was, uh, was just, was frustrating to watch, because it was total nonsense. Uh, whole, he, he was burning down a whole bunch of straw men with that episode, and then-

Joe Rogan 49:16 Yes.

Matt Walsh 49:16 ... yeah, John Oliver did the same thing.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Yes.

Matt Walsh 49:18 Um, and the woman that he was, that was the attorney general of, uh, I forget. Ar- Arkansas, I think.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 49:25 And, (sighs) yeah. He, he, you know, it was, it's, not everyone, uh, w- what she is doing to protect kids is, is great. I mean, she's a great American for doing that, and she has a lot of political courage. But not everyone is equipped to sit in a room with the cameras going and, uh, you know, defend their position in that kind of environment. And so, she got kind of, uh, she did get a little bit rolled during that conversation, which is unfortunate. I would love to sit down and talk to him, and-

Joe Rogan 49:51 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 49:52 ... but, but he's not gonna talk to somebody like me.

Joe Rogan 49:53 That, well, why, these, that's the point. Like, that would be a real conversation, and the way he did it with the straw men and the way he was talking about-

Matt Walsh 50:00 Yes, his-

Joe Rogan 50:00 ... affirming their healthcare and affirming their gender.

Matt Walsh 50:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:02 And-

Matt Walsh 50:03 His ent-, his whole thing with her was just about the medical consensus, and he kept saying, "Well, all these, all these doctors say that, uh, we should be transitioning kids, so who are you to say el-, say otherwise?" The mistake that she made was to play that game, and then she said, "Well, but there are other doctors who s-, who say that it's not okay." And so now, you're playing this credentialism game.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Right.

Matt Walsh 50:21 Um, and you're-

Joe Rogan 50:21 Appeal to authority.

Matt Walsh 50:22 Right. And, and o- once you do that, you, first of all, you're gonna lose, because it is true that the medical industry has largely bought into this, and so you're gonna lose that, that contest. But what you should be pointing out is that, first of all, the people that you're appealing to as authorities are all of the people who, who are making a lot of money off of this. So, the only people we should trust about the questions of gender affirmation are the ones who have a financial stake in it? That, that doesn't make any sense to me. Um, and then, and then also, I don't care who, I don't care how many, what letters they have next to their name. I don't care if they went to med, med, medical school. If they're making claims, we can assess those claims on their merits. We don't have to be credentialed to do that. And I'm, and I can say that what these doctors are, are saying is, i- i- it just doesn't make any sense.

Joe Rogan 51:08 But it is bizarre that so many are saying it. It is bizarre that so many in the community that we have always assumed is protecting the best interests of personal health and, and wellness, that these are the people that are saying it so often.

Matt Walsh 51:27 Well, there's the money. I, I think that-

Joe Rogan 51:29 The money part scares the shit out of me-

Matt Walsh 51:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:31 ... because I don't wanna think that that's real. I, I mean, I, I wanna hold out hope for the better aspects of human nature-

Matt Walsh 51:39 Well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:40 ... that y-, people wouldn't do that and, and think of children, and being able to diffuse responsibility and say, "Well, this is bigger than me, and I'm just part of this, and this is what we're doing now, and..."

Matt Walsh 51:51 Yeah. You, you would hope a person individually wouldn't do that, but, but p-, but-

Joe Rogan 51:54 Yes.

Matt Walsh 51:54 ... people definitely will do that. I mean, a- acting as a group, you know? And when you've got the, when you've got the twin pressures of, uh, well, you've got twin incentives of the political ideological incentives and the monetary incentive, that's, that's very powerful, and I think that does explain it. I mean, there are, there are, uh, you know, there are, and, like, child endocrinology clinics barely exist anymore because they've all become transgender. They've, they've all, that's, this is what they do now. There, there, there are a lot of, uh, there are a lot of peop- doctors who got into the medical field and they did a certain thing, and then the transgender stuff came along, and that's, and that's their whole, that's what they do. Well, i- it's the same for a lot of plastic surgeons, that this is, this is basically their whole business now, is doing the gender surgeries. Um, and so you see the incentive for them. I mean, they've, they've, they have staked everything on this. They've also staked their p- professional reputation, 'cause that's the other problem. Not only is it the political incentive and the money, but if they admit that they're wrong, then they're also admitting that they have horribly disfigured and abused thousands, maybe millions of kids.

Joe Rogan 52:57 How many people have had this done?

Matt Walsh 52:59 Depends on what... Uh, I don't think we have exact numbers, but it's, if we're talking about the drugs, it's, I mean, millions. Um-

Joe Rogan 53:06 You're talking about humo-, hormone blockers?

Matt Walsh 53:08 Yeah. Uh, blockers and-

Joe Rogan 53:09 Millions of kids have been on hormone blockers, really?

Matt Walsh 53:12 Uh, I, I'm sure someone's gonna fact-check me on the other, but my, my, my guess is that we're in, we're into the millions now at this point. Yeah, that would be my guess. Um, uh, I, I can say for double mastectomies, the most re-, I, I read a report recently that, um, there were over 1,000 done between 2016 and 2019, and when you compare that to how many were done between, you know, 2008 and 2015, it's just a, it's a massive increase. And, uh, a th-, over 1,000 girls had double masti-, gend- gender-affirming double mastectomies in that, in that timeframe. And but that's, that's-

Joe Rogan 53:46 And when you say girls, you're talking about prepubescent?

Matt Walsh 53:48 Right, minors. Uh, and that's just up until 2019, and then we know that, uh, there's been this exponential increase with all of this stuff year over year. So, um, it's, it's a lot. It's too many, you know? One, having this happen to one kid is way too many. It's a lot more than one.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Yeah. Look, if you're an adult and you wanna do that, and you understand who you are and what you are and this is how you feel you should progress, you're an adult. This is a free country. You should be able to do whatever you want. But when you're talking about doing that to children, the fact that so many people are on board and so many people are angry, if you ha-, like, people are gonna be angry at us that we're having these conversations.

Matt Walsh 54:25 Yeah. They will be. And I, and I also, I, I actually think that, uh, that, that this shouldn't, this shouldn't be happening to...

Joe Rogan 54:34 Th- this, it's a very small number, if that's right. I'll check on it. It says over the last five years, there were at least 4,780 adolescents who started puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis. It says it's kind of undercounted, but that's- That would be a big undercounting. ... less than 1,000 people a year. Yeah.

Matt Walsh 54:54 ... yeah, I mean, I, I, I would guess hu- you know, hundreds of thousands at this point. I could be wrong.

Joe Rogan 54:59 Million sounds great. (laughs)

Matt Walsh 55:02 Yeah. I could be wrong.

Joe Rogan 55:02 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 55:03 Um, the media managers will have fun with that clip.

Joe Rogan 55:05 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 55:05 "Matt Walsh claims it m-" Uh, but part of the problem, though, is that we don't ... It's, it's very hard to get numbers on any of this stuff, and ... and, you know, who are you gonna trust when they're telling you the numbers? So, that's, that's one of the issues, with, with, with all this stuff. It's what, what-

Joe Rogan 55:21 Does this have to be reported? Is there a database where they're looking at, like, long-term, like, results of how this works out, in terms of ... I mean, are they studying this now, in terms of following these kids? 'Cause if we don't have long-term data on what happens when you give young children puberty blockers or double mastectomies-

Matt Walsh 55:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:42 I mean, are they at least following up on these kids, so we can have long-term data in the future?

Matt Walsh 55:47 I think each, each clinic has their own policy. I've, I've asked this question of, of, uh ... I've asked this question of some of the, you know, some of the de-transitioners who went through this and then de-transed.

Joe Rogan 55:57 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 55:57 And what was the follow-up process like? And, uh, I've heard different, I've heard different things. But it's not, it's not extensive. Like, uh, I haven't heard that they're following up five years later, just to see how you're doing, kind of thing. I have, I certainly haven't heard that. And the one thing that I, that I always hear is that, um ... is that if they have complications, it's very difficult for them to get those complications addressed. Um, because the doctors that did this to them aren't interested in dealing with it, and then there are other doctors, too, who don't, who don't know how to deal with some of this stuff. So ...

Joe Rogan 56:27 What kind of complications are they experiencing?

Matt Walsh 56:30 Well, it depends on what we're talking about. I mean, you know, if we're talking about genital surgeries, the complications are just, are endless. I mean, you're trying to create a false, uh, genitals on someone. And it's just, it's, it's, uh, it is a ... In fact, one of the ... We talked to Marcy Bowers, who's a sex-change surgeon in the film. And he said, I think he said it's a F- it's a Faustian bargain. Like, he even admitted that this stuff ... He says it's more, it's more sophisticated now than it was, but there are a lot of complications. Um, and all this stuff is experimental. It's not like you have centuries of, you know, data to fall back on here.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Yeah. And another thing that's interesting, as I've been paying attention to this, is the experience of the de-transitioners when they go public with it, the amount of hate they experience, and that they get attacked. It's like, you're, you're talking about someone who should be an example, a cautionary tale of like, "Hey, this doesn't always work out well. Let's look at this, and get an accurate as-" If you were looking at this in good faith, so that you would say, "Look at, let's look at this and get an accurate assessment-"

Matt Walsh 57:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:38 "... of like, what's the worst-case scenario? What, what happens to some people?" But that's not what's happening. They're getting attacked. I mean, it's ... I've, I've paid attention to some of it, uh, particularly some of these girls that transitioned to boys then tried to go back to being a girl again. It's horrific.

Matt Walsh 57:55 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we had, uh ... We did a rally on this, uh, a couple, couple weeks ago in Nashville, against child mutilation. And we had a, uh, a, uh, de-transitioner named Chloe Cole, who came and, and spoke. She's 18 years old, and she got double mastectomy when she was, I believe, 16. Um, and she's up ... She spoke at our rally, and she's up on, on the, you know, at, at the microphone telling her story, and that's all she was doing, is trying ... She was there to tell her story. I wanted her there to tell her story. And she's getting screamed at by counter-protestors in the crowd, saying, "Eff you, fascist," to an 18-

Joe Rogan 58:28 "Fascist"?

Matt Walsh 58:28 Yeah, "Eff you, fascist," to an 18-year-old girl who is a victim of, uh, of, of, you know, medical negligence, and worse. Um, but this, this is the, this is the response that they get.

Joe Rogan 58:39 What-

Matt Walsh 58:39 Because you're, you're ... You know, they also see ... It's like, "You're a traitor to the community," or whatever.

Joe Rogan 58:44 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 58:44 Um, so they, they get what someone like ... You know, they'll get what I get, which is just, "You're speaking out against this, so we hate you." But then it's ramped up even more, because there's this element of, uh, perceived betrayal.

Joe Rogan 58:56 What a bizarre definition of fascism. Call her a fascist, because she's talking about medical malpractice and getting her breasts removed when she was 16 years old, before she knew what the fuck was going on, talking about this horrible experience that she's had.

Matt Walsh 59:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:11 And you decide that that makes you fascist?

Matt Walsh 59:12 Yeah. I mean, fascism, the word is way overused, but if it, if it means anything, I would think use- using intimidation tactics to stop someone from speaking ... If fascism means anything these days, then that, that certainly has to qualify, so I would call that fascism. I mean, you're literally ... And in this case, it was like, you're in the crowd, trying to drown out her voice-

Joe Rogan 59:32 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 59:32 ... by, by screaming at her. Uh, I don't, I don't use the fascism label, 'cause I think it's a silly how it's often used. But I would ... If we're to call, if we're to call something fascist, I would call that a fascist response.

Joe Rogan 59:42 It's certainly more fascist than her. It's, um, it's bizarre to me that no one is standing up to try to counter your claims, in, in wanting to go public, in wanting to have some sort of a public debate. 'Cause I, I would imagine that something that's so ideologically rigid in people's minds, that someone would at least have the ego to step up and say, "I can counter these arguments, and I could be the person to publicly shame this person, and, and have a debate with them, and trounce them."

Matt Walsh 1:00:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 With facts and reality and opinions, and des- describe the shared experiences of these people that have gone through this, and it's greatly enhanced their lives. But no one's doing that.

Matt Walsh 1:00:25 Yeah. I mean, there have been, uh ... Right. They, they might post something on Twitter, or they'll, they'll say something in their own bubble. But to me directly, they're not gonna do it. I mean, even, even just getting media outlets to review the film. I, I thought ... I put this film out. I knew it was gonna be panned in, in corporate media, but I figured-

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Was it?

Matt Walsh 1:00:45 Well, no, because they just ig- they just ignored it, you know? They just pretended it didn't exist. I mean, if you go to Rotten Tomatoes right now, I think we have something like, I don't know, five reviews or something. We've got thousands and thousands of, uh, of audience reviews, but we've got, I think, five reviews. And none of them are from the, from the major, um, media outlets, either. So, they're just ig- they're just ignoring it. But ...I don't think, they don't, they don't wanna se- it, they don't, they don't wanna sit down in an uncontrolled environment and, uh, and t- and talk to you because I think, again, that they know at some level that what they're saying doesn't make any sense. And that, and they also know that, they know they can't answer the question. You know, I've, I've staked everything on this what is a woman question and if one of them could come along and coherently answer it, then that would just, that would blow me out of the water. I mean, that's, everything's done then.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:01:27 Um, and they've had all this time to come up with i- with an answer, and none of them have gone with it. So, they know, they're, they're not gonna sit down with you 'cause they know that it's, th- that's gonna be a big part of the conversation. Like if you, you gotta, we gotta start by you defining your terms. And if you can't do that, then I, I don't know how to talk to you if, if we can't define the terms.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Well, they always wanna dismiss you as some far right talking point person. That's the, the first way they do it.

Matt Walsh 1:01:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 And to ignore your film seems to me to, you're, you're ignoring an opportunity to take something apart that you disagree with. Like, why would they do that? They do that with everything else. It's, one of, one of the more unique things is the, the igno- uh, they feel like things are moving in the right direction. It's almost like strategically it would be detrimental to engage with you, because they must understand that a lot of these belief systems that they've adhered to, they're, they're cult-like. It's ideological. It doesn't make sense. It's not, it's not grounded in reality. It's all, i- also, there are inherent dangers to doing this to children that are very difficult to ignore.

Matt Walsh 1:02:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 And that parents are gonna resonate with, like instantaneously when they think about their children and how vulnerable children are and how malleable they are and how susceptible they are to cultural trends.

Matt Walsh 1:02:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 And the fact that they won't engage with you on this, it really speaks volumes.

Matt Walsh 1:02:49 Yeah. I mean, i- it does. I think they also realize that, um... and we call it ideological and political. I think it's, it's, it's also, it's, it's a really a spiritual, it's like a religious claim. I mean, that this is a, gender ideology is a religion, I think. Um, it behaves in every way like a religion. And, um, it's actually interesting, it's kinda revealing that one thing you hear from the proponents is this claim that, um, actually, uh, there are analogs for transgenderism all across the world in other cultures and throughout history. That's what they al- they always say. Um, we tested this in the film. We went outside of the Western culture bubble. We went all the way to Africa, talked to-

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:03:23 ... a traditional tribe there about this stuff. And, um, and they were t- just... (laughs) they were, their, their minds were blown by it, in a bad way. Um, they had never encountered ideas like this before because, of course, these, you know, the, the, the gender binary is not a Western construct. Th- the rejection of the gender binary is a, is a Western construct. But, uh, going back to, you know, when they point to what, what are supposed to be analogs or other examples of this kinda thing in other cultures, sometimes they're just making it up. But then the o- there are, there are times when, when, you know, there might be a culture that has some notion of, like, you know, uh, m- maybe a man acting out the part of a woman or something like that. Th- that happens in other cultures. Cross-dressing, yeah, that exists in other cultures. But the difference is, number one, they don't... in those cultures, they don't think that the man actually is a woman. Like, they don't believe in pregnant men in those cultures. They know that he's acting out something. That's the point. And then the other point too is that in m- in these other cultures where this exists, very often it is like a religious, spiritual sort of thing. They talk about, um... in fact, they cl- they include it now in the LGBT acronym- acronym as Two-Spirit, which is supposed to be the, the, the, uh, Native American version of transgenderism.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Yes.

Matt Walsh 1:04:31 Um, and that was invented in 1990 by gay activists, so it's not like this goes all the way back to the, you know, Comanches on the Great Plains. But even that, it's... think about the Two-Spirit. It's, it's a, it's a spiritual, it's a, it's a re- it, that's a religious thing. Um, which is really what they're doing here. This is really-

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 That's what the two is?

Matt Walsh 1:04:48 Yeah, 2-S, Two-Spirit. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:49 So, in the LBGTIA2+...

Matt Walsh 1:04:54 Yeah. 2-S, that's what, it's, yeah, it's, the l- the acronym has a-

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 That's the, that's what two is, is Two-Spirit.

Matt Walsh 1:04:59 Two-Spirit. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 That's a new one. How long is that gonna get?

Matt Walsh 1:05:03 W- I mean, th- there's, there's no limit because they c- and, and also because the identities, the identities c- are, are becoming redundant, you know? They, they, they, like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 Right. Like gay and queer.

Matt Walsh 1:05:12 Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, demisexual is one of the newer ones, I think.

Joe Rogan 1:05:16 Is that in there? I mean-

Matt Walsh 1:05:18 I don't know if it's in there. I, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a thing, demisexual.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Should be. What are they, bigots? Put it in there.

Matt Walsh 1:05:22 Yeah. And, but what does... you know, a demis- I looked it up once. Demisexual is, um, a, a person who needs to be emotionally attr- like attached to someone or needs to f- emotionally connect to someone in order to be sexually attracted to them. And you hear that and you're like, "Well, that's just, so that's women. That's what a woman"

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 (laughs)

Matt Walsh 1:05:40 That's, that's like every woman. Um, and then there's, and then there's also, it's, it's just, it's, it's ridiculous, 'cause th- they're, they're... I, I don't remember the label, but there's the opposite of that, too. They're the people that don't need the emotional attachment, but they still have, you know, sexual or erotic feelings.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 Hmm. I was under the impression that in Native American populations that that Two-Spirit thing was, that was a historical thing, that they had always had members of their tribe th- and that they valued that seemed to have the perspective of both a female and a male.

Matt Walsh 1:06:12 No.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 And that they could make sense of things.

Matt Walsh 1:06:14 The term Two-Spirit was coined, I believe, in 1990. Um, what they'll claim is that, yeah, the cur- the term might've been coined in 1990, but it, it speaks to something that existed before.

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 Right.

Matt Walsh 1:06:26 But even if that's true, my point is that, number one, you're talking about s- you are talking about something spiritual, okay? Which is not what the gender ideologues are claiming here. They're claiming something... they're not saying it's spiritual. They're saying it's, it's physical. Like, a trans woman is a woman. Like, a, a, a man who says he's a woman actually really is one.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:06:45 Not just spiritually is one-

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 Right.

Matt Walsh 1:06:46 ... but is one.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 That's the difference in w-

Matt Walsh 1:06:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 ... the way it's being approached today.

Matt Walsh 1:06:50 And it's-

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:06:50 ... it's a really significant difference. Now, if we, if we wanna, if they want to j- just admit that they're making a spiritual claim and what they're claiming is that, I don't know, a man can end up with a woman, with the soul of a woman or something like that, um, I, that would be progress, at least, because now we're, now we are framing this conversation correctly. I still think it's an incoherent claim, but I mean, how can a, a man have the soul of a woman? Um-... sort of by, by definition, a man's... If a man has a soul, then it's a man's soul by definition. It's like, how do you define a, a, the soul of a man? But-

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah, I guess. That's a tricky one, because what's, how, you know, prove a soul?

Matt Walsh 1:07:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:28 You know?

Matt Walsh 1:07:28 But that's, but that's my point.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:07:29 If, at, at least if they, if they would just admit that this is a, a sp- What, what we're, what we're trying to point to is something, some kind of spiritual essence, um, then we can have that conversation. And I still disagree, but, you know, at least you're admitting that this isn't, that there's, there's nothing, there's nothing physical here.

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 What is, what is the longest conversation you had when you were filming this documentary? Like, what is, what is the, the longest sit-down you had with some of these people?

Matt Walsh 1:07:55 Um, somebody on the-

Joe Rogan 1:07:57 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:07:57 ... it was like... Probably Marcy Bowers, the, the, uh, the sex-change surgeon. Talked to him, who identifies as a her.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:08:08 For, um, I don't remember the exact amount, but I think it was over an hour.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 She seemed very confident when she was talking about these things.

Matt Walsh 1:08:15 Yeah, uh, that would... Most of the people we talked to on that side were, were really closed off and didn't wanna open up and say anything. That was not the case with, with, uh, Marcy Bowers. Although, there's an interesting, there's an interesting thing that made it into the film there, where I brought up, um, uh, trans-abled people, which is a real phenomenon.

Joe Rogan 1:08:33 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:08:33 People who feel like, you know, they have two arms... Someone who has two arms feels like he should have one arm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:08:39 Um, should we take that self-identity seriously? And what I was told by Marcy Bowers is, "No, that's kooky." Exact words. But then, the, uh, WPATH, which is the World, uh, which is the, the, you know, supposed to be the preeminent transgender health organization in the world, they had their conference, uh, I think it was in Canada a few weeks ago. And they had a guy pre- presenting something in the conference saying that, um, actually this kind of body dysmorphia is now a valid gender identity. A eunuch, you know, someone who's a eunuch who wants to amputate their male genitals and yet does not identify as female, just wants to amputate them, they identify as that way, um, that now that's a valid, that's a valid gender identity. So, I was told a few, a few months before that, that that's kooky, and then fast-forward a few months, WPATH is saying, "Well, no, that's a valid gender id- gender identity."

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 That's what's, uh, interesting about the social contagion aspect of it, is that it does seem to spread and change and morph, depending on what people accept and what people are willing to agree to. And then once people do agree to that, that a eunuch is a valid sexual identity, well, then that'll become doctrine.

Matt Walsh 1:09:48 Yeah. Yeah, and because it, it makes sense, too. Because if you, if what, if what we're s- being told is that, uh, you cannot disagree with someone's self-identity, then there, you know, there's no floor there. I mean, uh, then whatever someone claims about themselves, we have to affirm it. And, you know, that, that includes trans-species, trans-racial, all that kind of stuff. You know, that, and that's not even... I don't even think of that as slippery slope. Something like trans-racialism, um, that's not further down on the slope. That's actually less crazy than transgenderism.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 Yeah, because all human beings evolved from Africa.

Matt Walsh 1:10:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 It is less crazy. And there-

Matt Walsh 1:10:27 I mean, w-

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 The reason why there's differs, the, the differences in the way human beings, uh, look and the way we evolve is 'cause we spread to different climates in the world, and the human body adapted to those climates. It's the reason why people are so pale in the place where there's no fucking sun.

Matt Walsh 1:10:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 I mean, this is all, this is all biology. They understand this. It's, it's more logical to be trans-racial.

Matt Walsh 1:10:50 And race actually is fluid.

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:10:51 Like, you can be multiple races.

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:10:53 Um, so that makes it... But, but we kinda... We skipped that, and we just went right to the transgender thing.

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 Yeah.

Matt Walsh 1:11:00 Um, and most people that, that support transgenderism will say that trans ra-