Joe Rogan Experience #1896 - Bjorn Lomborg

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Would you like coffee?

   3. BLBjorn Lomborg0:13

      I ... So, see? I brought my, um, Mountain ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Oh, you're a Mountain Dew guy?

   5. BLBjorn Lomborg0:16

      Mountain Dew Diet.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Oh, boy. I like, I like a man who prepares for his podcasts.

   7. BLBjorn Lomborg0:21

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      All right, we rolling? We're up? Did you get that part?

   9. NANarrator0:23

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       This dude drinks Mountain Dew Diet.

   11. BLBjorn Lomborg0:25

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       That is like the anti-environmentalist beverage of choice.

   13. BLBjorn Lomborg0:28

       Is it?

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Like ... No, I'm kidding.

   15. BLBjorn Lomborg0:30

       So, I ...

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Aluminum is actually good, right? Because aluminum does get recycled.

   17. BLBjorn Lomborg0:33

       You can re- recycle it, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       It does get recycled. But-

   19. BLBjorn Lomborg0:34

       Oh, yeah, yeah. It's no problem.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       ... we were so heartbroken reading this article recently about plastics, about how w- ... It's like 5%, right?

   21. BLBjorn Lomborg0:41

       5%?

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Single-use plastics-

   23. BLBjorn Lomborg0:43

       Oh, right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       ... get recycled.

   25. BLBjorn Lomborg0:43

       Yeah, yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Like, all the, all ... Every time you throw your bottle in the right bin, you feel like you're a good person.

   27. BLBjorn Lomborg0:48

       Yeah. Mostly you're not.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       I'm like, "Oh, I'm a good person. I put it in the blue bin."

   29. BLBjorn Lomborg0:51

       Yes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       "I'm a good person."
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. So it... You…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      in the Earth's history where the Earth experienced asteroid impacts, comet impacts. And that there's a period around 12,000 something years ago where we, for sure, got hit by these big impacts of either exploding in the sky above Earth or hitting the ground. And there's plenty of, like, physical evidence of this, and it's called the Younger Dryas impact theory. But they were talking about the rapid change in the climate, how the, the sea levels rose, the ice caps melted all because we got pummeled by asteroids. Like, this shit has gone on forever. That's just natural stuff from getting hit by space. If you look at, like, the cycles of the... Like, if you go back a million years in Earth and look at all the highs and lows, you're like, "Oh, this thing's never been stable without us even existing. It's never been stable." So I guess the question is, how much of an effect are we having on these wild cycles? What can you really blame it on? And what can we do, if anything, to turn it around?

   2. BLBjorn Lomborg16:06

      Yeah. So it... You absolutely... Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:08

      Those are the reasonable questions, right?

   4. BLBjorn Lomborg16:09

      Yes, and a, and a long one. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:11

      Sorry.

   6. BLBjorn Lomborg16:11

      So... No, no, no.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:12

      Sorry about that. I get a little carried away.

   8. BLBjorn Lomborg16:13

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:13

      I get excited about this one-

   10. BLBjorn Lomborg16:14

       No, no.

   11. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       ... because it seems kind of cultish.

   12. BLBjorn Lomborg16:16

       It, it is. So, so look, if you look around and if you look back in time, absolutely there's been huge changes as, as you point out.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Yeah.

   14. BLBjorn Lomborg16:22

       You know, uh, sea levels from, from, uh, an ice age to today has gone up, what, 400 feet. Uh, so yeah-

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Without us even doing shit.

   16. BLBjorn Lomborg16:30

       With nothing from-

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       Yeah.

   18. BLBjorn Lomborg16:32

       ... you know, our, our impact. Uh, with all that said, so that's sort of the background, and that's important to know. We don't live in thousands or millions of years. Uh, we live right now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       Right.

   20. BLBjorn Lomborg16:42

       And we kind of care about what's gonna happen in the next 100 and next 200, uh, years. To a large extent also because we built all of our cities. So, you know, Austin is built in a pretty warm climate, I'm assuming. Uh, you know, coming from Southern Sweden, I think it's, uh, it's a lot warmer here than it is where, where I'm from.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:58

       Yeah, a lot warmer. Yeah.

   22. BLBjorn Lomborg16:59

       Yeah, yeah. So, you know, cities are built to the temperature that they used to have-

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       Right.

   24. BLBjorn Lomborg17:04

       ... like, for the last 100 years. So if temperatures change, even if it's just somewhat, it'll be inconvenient. It'll actually be a problem. And that, I think, is really why we're talking about global warming. It's a problem that we are causing, so we are actually changing the temperature, not by these enormous amounts that you're talking about. They're not the asteroids of the world, but there's, you know, uh, uh, an issue that we should be careful about and w- that we should pay attention to and that we should talk about it. So how do we fix it in the best possible way? But let's... I-

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       But before you get into that, how do we know...... how much of an impact our society is having on the overall effect? Like, if there is a warming of the globe-

   26. BLBjorn Lomborg17:43

       Hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       ... how do we know how much of an impact are pointing out... Is there a r- real science that points out the amount of carbon and the emissions that we release has X amount of effect which will equal this amount of temperature rise? Is that solidified?

   28. BLBjorn Lomborg17:58

       So I, I'm a social scientist, right?

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:00

       Okay.

   30. BLBjorn Lomborg18:00

       So I basically just read all the UN climate-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      has improved. Studies have reported a slowdown in this trend, have, uh, uh, studies that have reported a slowdown in this trend have also detected rises in the prevalence of obesity, metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes, what we were just saying, all well-known risk factors for heart disease. So it's not that climate change is causing heart disease. It's that people are doing things that they shouldn't be doing with their body, in terms of, like, letting their body get obese, or not taking action and going to the gym-

   2. BLBjorn Lomborg30:32

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:32

      ... and altering their diet, and they need encouragement. And it should be... If you really wanted to, like, lower cost for healthcare worldwide, especially nationwide, a, a national program encouraging people, instead of just putting, like, a black square on your Instagram on Tuesday, how about encouraging people through one entire month to do 100 sit-ups and 100 push-ups and go up, you know, w- walk 10,000 steps every day?

   4. BLBjorn Lomborg30:55

      Yep.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:55

      Just encouraging people, and everybody have to fucking be accountable online.

   6. BLBjorn Lomborg30:59

      Yep.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:59

      I- if everybody did that, y- uh, people would just-

   8. BLBjorn Lomborg31:02

      We'd be much better off, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:03

      ... shed weight.

   10. BLBjorn Lomborg31:03

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       They would shed weight. All sorts of medical problems would go away, if they're capable of doing this, of course.

   12. BLBjorn Lomborg31:07

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       If they're not, if they already have a health problem, that's n- it's obviously not their fault. But there's so many people that can improve their life-

   14. BLBjorn Lomborg31:13

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       ... and there's no encouragement to do it.

   16. BLBjorn Lomborg31:14

       Yep.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       All they talk about is, like, the fear of what happens if this comes for you, the fear. "The climate is gonna make you have a stroke."

   18. BLBjorn Lomborg31:23

       Hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:23

       "The climate is gonna make you stay indoors. The oceans are gonna boil." It's like, Jesus Christ-

   20. BLBjorn Lomborg31:28

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       ... tell me what I can do to make life better right now. Right?

   22. BLBjorn Lomborg31:31

       Yep. And so you're absolutely right. We can do a lot ourselves. Uh, w- with that said, though, it's not that there's n- nothing to this point. Uh, so can, can I just show, uh, the, the same, uh, uh, so B3?

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:41

       Well, I'd imagine if it gets hotter, people are gonna have heart attacks.

   24. BLBjorn Lomborg31:43

       Yeah. So, you know-

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Makes sense.

   26. BLBjorn Lomborg31:45

       Yeah, so-

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       But that's because-

   28. BLBjorn Lomborg31:45

       So-

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       ... they're not very resilient.

   30. BLBjorn Lomborg31:47

       Well, but, but-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. Uh, obviously that…

   1. BLBjorn Lomborg45:00

      they, they would probably parcel it out for, for, uh, uh, uh, for, um, obesity as well.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Yeah. Uh, obviously that was one of the big things that people had a problem with with COVID deaths, was people that were already terminally ill and got COVID and they attribute it to COVID. But y- you know, your body is like an ecosystem, and if you have, like, a major insult coming into your body, like being obese or a disease, or if you live in one of these horrible places that has m- massive amounts of pollution, that's something that must affect-

   3. BLBjorn Lomborg45:26

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:26

      I mean, that's a big, that is a big impact on longevity, right?

   5. BLBjorn Lomborg45:29

      A- and, and, and just being poor. Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:29

      Like, people that live in those polluted cities. Yeah. And just being poor.

   7. BLBjorn Lomborg45:32

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:32

      Bad nutrition, bad healthcare.

   9. BLBjorn Lomborg45:33

      Exactly.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       All the above. Stress. Violence. You know?

   11. BLBjorn Lomborg45:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       All of, all of that. Um, that, but that's not convenient. Bjorn, that's not good for our little conversation.

   13. BLBjorn Lomborg45:44

       No, no.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:44

       Our conversation is, I have to glue myself to the van Gogh and throw fucking soup at it.

   15. BLBjorn Lomborg45:49

       Can I, can I just show you on, uh, uh, sorry, B ... Jesus. Uh, B8.

   16. GPGuest (unidentified, likely producer/assistant)45:55

       Yeah. I have a quick question on the, uh, climate one. I was just watching this, a movie about World War I last night. That's why I asked this. Wouldn't war deaths, shouldn't they maybe be included or would they be very high in like this first area, like 1920 to 1940?

   17. BLBjorn Lomborg46:07

       Oh, so this-

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Climate-related?

   19. BLBjorn Lomborg46:08

       ... this was only for deaths-

   20. GPGuest (unidentified, likely producer/assistant)46:09

       No.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:09

       Wars?

   22. GPGuest (unidentified, likely producer/assistant)46:09

       Comparing to, like, you know, like, millions of people died because of war.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:13

       Yeah.

   24. GPGuest (unidentified, likely producer/assistant)46:13

       And other things be- due to the war.

   25. BLBjorn Lomborg46:15

       Oh, God, yes. The- these, this would be much b- uh, this would be much bigger and, you know, centered around 1940. Uh, but I'm only looking at the-

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       Right, but not for c- climate change.

   27. BLBjorn Lomborg46:24

       Floods, droughts, storms and wildfires.

   28. GPGuest (unidentified, likely producer/assistant)46:26

       That's, I, I was also like, I didn't ... What ... I haven't, I don't ... What giant floods are ... I'm not saying there weren't. I've just never heard of any that killed like hundreds of thousands of people.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       No, I think with, what he's talking about with climate-related deaths, it's mostly people freezing to death.

   30. BLBjorn Lomborg46:37

       Well, no, no. So, sorry.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:08:53

   (laughs) …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      uh, p- some cars like, uh, a Porsche Turbo, which is like a very efficient car and has incredible air filters and e- the air coming out of the exhaust is actually cleaner-

   2. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:10

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:10

      ... than the air going in.

   4. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:11

      There you go.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Make sure that's true. Make sure that's true, 'cause I'd- I'd be an asshole if it's not true. But Jeremy Clarkson definitely said that. And I remember thinking, like, "Wow, maybe that is the solution." If you can get something-

   6. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:20

      We should buy a Porsche to everyone.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:21

      No, not a Porsche.

   8. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:22

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:22

      But a car that's sucking in carbon. Everyone should, before they die, own one of those, though. Uh, but if you could get a, a car that is somehow or another utilizing that fuel that's in the air that's problematic, and if there's some sort of a way to extract that and convert it, maybe through some-

   10. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:40

       Hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       ... you know, unforeseen technology, convert that into energy.

   12. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:43

       This sounds implausible.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       Does it?

   14. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:46

       Tha- Yeah. It, it sounds like it's very ... So, we're doing the same thing with carbon, uh, that you're s- trying to suck out the carbon from the atmosphere.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       Mm-hmm.

   16. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:53

       And it turns out to be very expensive. It's just-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       Well, all combustion engines-

   18. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:57

       ... very hard to do that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       ... require oxygen, right?

   20. BLBjorn Lomborg1:00:58

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

       Would it be possible for a combu- com- combustion engine at least to somehow work carbon-neutral by pulling enough carbon out of the atmosphere that the ... Whatever comes out the back is actually not good. Okay.

   22. NANarrator1:01:11

       This is what he said.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

       Here it is. Jeremy Clarkson said, "When you drive this car through a really polluted city, Los Angeles, Kolkata," I don't know what the other one was.

   24. NANarrator1:01:18

       Harrogate (laughs) .

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       Harrogate. I think he was joking around. Something like that. "The gas coming out of the exhaust pipe is less toxic than the air going into the engine. And I'm not joking. That's true." And then, "This then is like a small, efficient, easy-to-use vacuum cleaner." Okay, so he's joking around about that. But is that true? Is it true? Does it say it's true, Jamie? What does it say?

   26. NANarrator1:01:42

       It doesn't say that it's true or false.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       It doesn't say if it's true or false. So that is his quote.

   28. NANarrator1:01:45

       Uh, "Well, I have seen concept cars that clean the air. I seriously doubt any car existing." Yeah, that's what this says, ex-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:50

       But again, you know, you-

   30. NANarrator1:01:51

       Except, you know, especially the Porsche 911.

Episode duration: 2:31:52