Joe Rogan Experience #1897 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

1. 0:00 – 2:31

   Netflix ‘Ancient Apocalypse’ launch: Younger Dryas as the missing chapter of history

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. RCRandall Carlson0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      These are some of my all-time favorite podcasts. I just have to tell you. I'm so excited to have you guys in today. I really was. All weekend, I was giddy.

   5. GHGraham Hancock0:20

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      I was giddy thinking about today. So congratulations on the Netflix series. I am super excited to, first of all, to have that on a mainstream platform-

   7. GHGraham Hancock0:30

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      ... is such a huge victory for you. So-

   9. GHGraham Hancock0:33

      Thank you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (claps) Congratulations to you.

   11. GHGraham Hancock0:36

       Thank you.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       It's all turning in both of your way. I mean-

   13. GHGraham Hancock0:39

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       ... there was so much skepticism, uh, just years ago, but now it seems like with-

   15. GHGraham Hancock0:44

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       And even Michael Shermer. You were showing me, uh, something that he tweeted today.

   17. GHGraham Hancock0:48

       Yeah. Well, no. He tweeted it a while ago, but-

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Oh, okay.

   19. GHGraham Hancock0:50

       But, uh, you know, he, he walked back on, on some of his crit- criticisms of, of our work, and-

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       It was in light of new evidence-

   21. GHGraham Hancock0:58

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       ... of the Younger Dryas impact theory.

   23. GHGraham Hancock1:00

       Exactly. Exactly. No, it's been a, it's been a, a major challenge getting this show, getting this show done, but, uh, it, it's the first time I think that these radical ideas have got onto a major platform, um, and, um, the whole, the whole focus of the thing is summed up in the title of the show, Ancient Apocalypse, because we had an incredible apocalypse that hit this planet, and it wasn't just one moment. It was 1,200 years of hell on Earth between roughly 12,800 and 11,600 years ago.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Wow.

   25. GHGraham Hancock1:34

       And, and that is not taken into account by mainstream historians and archeologists. Something that really changed the world needs to be taken into account if we're claiming to have a full knowledge of the past of humanity. And so I'm just really glad that, that Netflix have taken this show on and they're gonna blast it out to a worldwide audience, and, and hopefully that will begin to put more pressure on the academics, who, frankly, I'm not a conspiracist, but they do act as gatekeepers as to what may be allowed out in front of the public and what may be not allowed.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Yes.

   27. GHGraham Hancock2:07

       Like-

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:08

       And that seems to be because of the books they've written, the lectures they've given, that they've given all these lectures and they've written all these books that have theories that are outdated, and they don't wanna let those theories go in light of the new evidence. They, they wanna push back as much as possible-

   29. GHGraham Hancock2:25

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       ... because it, frankly, weakens their credibility as the arbiters of the truth.

2. 2:31 – 3:53

   Gatekeeping and access battles: bans from Egypt and Serpent Mound

   1. GHGraham Hancock2:31

      Yeah. I think that's, I think that's the issue, but it's, uh, uh, really some quite sinister things have, have happened, uh, be- you know, because of this show. I got banned from Egypt. Uh, they just... That's the very clever way for archeologists to make sure that no criticism can come, can come in of their sites is just to, of their take on things, is just to ban the critic from, from coming there. I got banned from Serpent Mound in Ohio. Can you imagine that? I mean, Serpent Mound is a national landmark. People should not get banned from, from, from going there.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:00

      When you say banned, meaning you tried to go there to film or just to visit?

   3. GHGraham Hancock3:03

      Yeah. When, when, when we a- when we approached them to make an episode of, of my Netflix series at Serpent Mound, initially they were welcoming, and then they heard that Graham Hancock was presenting the series, and immediately they turned around and said, "No. Filming permission is refused because Hancock's views differ from our own." Well, I was able to make a virtue of that, um, in the sense that I stood at the gates of Serpent Mound, which were closed, and, uh, I read out their letter where they, where they say that just because I don't agree with them, they won't allow me access to the site. Fortunately, we have masses of footage, drones and, and, and, and other things, and we were able to do the show. But it shows again the limited mentality, and people must be very insecure in their ideas if they, if they actually have to ban critics from expressing alternative ideas.

3. 3:53 – 6:07

   Serpent Mound’s possible deep age: archaeoastronomy and reconstruction over millennia

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:53

      And what is the significance of Serpent Mound?

   2. GHGraham Hancock3:56

      Well, Serpent, the first, the first and foremost thing is it's an incredible, beautiful, amazing site, which everybody who can get to Ohio should, should go and see. It's just a most incredible place. But secondly, there are indications that it's much older than it's supposed to be, and that has particularly to do with the way that the jaws of the serpent line up to the setting sun and because the changing positions of the sunset due to changes in the Earth's motion.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:21

      So this is it here?

   4. GHGraham Hancock4:22

      That's it there.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:23

      Yeah.

   6. GHGraham Hancock4:23

      We're looking at the, the, the, the... That's the head of the serpent, and it's looking straight at the setting sun. And this, uh, this alignment was perfect about 12 and a half thousand years ago. It's slightly off today, and that's because of changes in the rising point of the sun over thousands and thousands of years.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:41

      And-

   8. GHGraham Hancock4:41

      And, and that's what they don't like. They don't want Serpent Mound to be older. There's one group of archeologists think it's just 1,000 years old. Another group think, well, maybe it's two and a half or 3,000 years old. Um, but the notion that it might be 12,000 years old is something they don't want to, anybody to hear really.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:55

      And is the evidence that it's 12,000 years old just based with the alignment of the sun, or is there other evidence?

   10. GHGraham Hancock5:01

       No. There's other evidence as well. There's material from that time that have been found at Serpent Mound that archeologists considered, consider it to be irrelevant to the date of Serpent Mound.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       Yeah. Material, like what kind of material?

   12. GHGraham Hancock5:13

       Carbon dateable material, objects, uh, bits of wood that were burnt.

   13. JRJoe Rogan5:17

       Mm.

   14. GHGraham Hancock5:17

       People were there. People were doing stuff. It's clear that that site has been constructed and reconstructed multiple times over thousands and thousands of years, and this is a theme that I've found throughout making Ancient Apocalypse, that wh- when you look at a, a particular site, what you're looking at is the latest incarnation of that site. But the site itself has been sacred for millennia, and it needs repair. It re- needs renovation, uh, particularly if it's an earthen mound like, like Serpent Mound.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       And so that's, the, that is a theme that does seem to be repeated even under modern accepted archaeological, uh, understandings of ancient sites, like the Parthenon and the Acropolis.

   16. GHGraham Hancock6:03

       Well, less, I mean, less, less so. Uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:05

       Less so in terms of the timeline.

4. 6:07 – 8:07

   Layered monuments worldwide: Cholula’s ‘pyramid within pyramids’

   1. GHGraham Hancock6:07

      L- L- Less, less so in terms, in terms of the timeline. I mean, one of the sites we, we visited for this series is an incredible pyramid in Mexico, uh, at a, at a place called Cholula. And it is, in fact, the largest pyramid in the world. Very few people have even heard of it, but it's a much bigger pyramid than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. It's not as high, but its footprint is massive. So it's a huge, humongous thing sitting there on the ground. And it turns out that inside it are four other pyramids that were built on top of what we see, on what we see now. What we see now was built on top of those (laughs) , of those older pyramids. And then at the very heart of it is a sort of sacred spring that seems to have been the reason for the creation of that. And we, again, explore the possibility that the origins of this site may be much older than the archaeological dating.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:54

      So how long did it take you guys to do this series?

   3. GHGraham Hancock6:57

      Well, uh, to-

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:59

      (clears throat)

   5. GHGraham Hancock6:59

      ... to be clear, it was, the, the, the series is me, and, and it's me making it. But Randall plays an incredibly important role in the series. Randall and I are comrades in arms. (laughs) We're, we're working together against the mainstream to, to bring an alternative point of view. And Randall is the star of episode eight, and episode eight is the eight where, is, is the episode where we bring the whole story of the ancient apocalypse together, the terrible things that happened to this world, the terrible things. That was the time when all the great megafauna went extinct, the saber-toothed tigers, the wooly rhinos, and so on and so forth. They all went extinct between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago. And there's evidence of just utterly cataclysmic flooding in North America, particularly in the Channeled Scablands in the Pacific Northwest. And that flooding came off the ice cap, and something made it come off the ice cap really, really fast. And Randall has just devoted years of his life to studying this mystery. What really went on there? And let's not underestimate it. Let's not, let's just not talk about lakes bursting their banks. Let's, let's talk about something huge that took place, and the landscape peak speaks to that, to that huge event.

5. 8:07 – 15:09

   Randall Carlson’s catastrophism origin story: underfit rivers and Lake Agassiz outburst floods

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:07

      And Randall, you've discussed this on the podcast before, but in the interest of making this a standalone show, we should probably get into it before. You, uh, came up with this idea at what, what year was it when you first, when that, that idea first came to your mind that... Remember, you, you were telling me-

   2. GHGraham Hancock8:27

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:27

      ... you were on acid and you were looking at how- (laughs)

   4. RCRandall Carlson8:29

      Oh, that?

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:30

      (laughs)

   6. RCRandall Carlson8:30

      Well, that (coughs) , that was 1969.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:33

      Yeah.

   8. RCRandall Carlson8:33

      (coughs) And (laughs) , uh, I didn't quite formulate a specific theory at that point.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:38

      But you had a thought.

   10. RCRandall Carlson8:39

       I had an impression. I call it an impression. I was looking at a, an underfit river. You know what that is?

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:46

       No.

   12. RCRandall Carlson8:47

       Um, Jamie, can we do a map? And I'm gonna show, I'm gonna show you exactly, um, what we're talking about here. Uh, I'm gonna zoom in on... Okay, well-

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:03

       I'll just give you the... Oh, here you go.

   14. RCRandall Carlson9:04

       Oh, okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:05

       Nice.

   16. RCRandall Carlson9:06

       Okay.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:06

       Little HDMI action.

   18. RCRandall Carlson9:08

       Yep, yep. Uh, there we go.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       Okay.

   20. RCRandall Carlson9:16

       All right. You're gonna learn a new term, Joe. It's underfit river. Okay, so it was little different back in 1969, but Eden Prairie was a, a location of an airport. Let me put this onto terrain. All right, here we go. Um, and let me... Here we go. So this is the Minnesota River Valley, and I was standing... I can actually, I actually went back and found the, a few years ago, found the spot I was standing. And it was right here on this bluff, looking into this valley. Now, if you go here, you can see there's another side to it over here. And if you look back here, you're gonna see, this is what's an underfit river. An underfit river is where the modern river is diminutive relative to the channel that it's flowing in. And the channel was part of what they called the Spillway of Lake Agassiz, which was a gigantic meltwater lake that formed in that interval that we, Graham was just talking about. So, this is the modern Minnesota River, which is a fairly substantial river, probably close to the Colorado here that runs through Austin. But you can see the channel. The channel is huge relative to the river. A few geologists have worked on it and concluded that the meltwater flow here, through here was 4,000 times greater than the modern flow of the Minnesota River. So anyways, I was standing here looking out into this, and what I saw was the modern river with a, entrenched within a couple of banks. And then I'm looking at this huge channel, and I just had this impression that, was this a huge river channel? You know, how... 'Cause, see, when I was l- looking-

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:12

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RCRandall Carlson11:12

       ... three miles across, there's another set of 200-foot-high bluffs matching the ones that I was standing on. And then below me was the modern Minnesota River with its banks, which were like miniature versions of the bluffs. Now, it was a full decade before I actually came back to the idea, as I was beginning to learn more about catastrophism, which was still very much in the, in the seminal stages back in the, say, since '70s. Um, you know, we've learned so much more about the catastrophic history of this planet since then. Um, but then, uh, I began to think, "Well..." And this was before I even knew about Glacial River Warren, it was called, which was the, the flow through here. And you can actually... I took Gra- We, Graham, we went there. If we chased-

   23. GHGraham Hancock11:57

       We did indeed.

   24. RCRandall Carlson11:58

       We did, right up here by Ortonville.... is Big Stone- see Big Stone City. So this is the southern outlet of Lake Agassiz, and this was one of the outburst floods, many outburst floods of gigantic flows of melt water coming off the ice sheet. Big Stone City, now when you look at names of lakes and towns and places, oftentimes there's clues. Like Big Stone City and Big Stone Lake. If you go there, there's big stones laying all over the landscape that were flushed out in this catastrophic draining of Lake Agassiz.

   25. GHGraham Hancock12:32

       Because these drainings would have involved not just water, but icebergs.

   26. RCRandall Carlson12:36

       Yes.

   27. GHGraham Hancock12:37

       Turbulent flows of water filled with icebergs the size of oil tankers, and inside those icebergs, locked up, are huge chunks of rock. And eventually, the iceberg melts and it releases the lock, the rock, and that's how you get the big stone.

   28. RCRandall Carlson12:50

       Yeah. And then the last place we went, Graham, was the, the potholes at Saint Croix Falls. I'll zoom in here, and this is an interesting place. Um, there's a constriction in the bedrock. This is hard basalt bedrock. When you have water flow coming along, it's got a, uh, a, a conservation of volume, so that if you have a narrow part of the channel, the water coming in as it's going into that constricted channel speeds up. Because if you take measure of the water flow at any two points along the channel, it's gonna be the same. Whether it's a wide channel with shallower water moving slower, or a narrower channel with deeper water moving faster, the, the discharge through that channel is gonna be the same. But what happens is if it comes into a constriction, it has to speed up then. When it speeds up, it becomes more erosive, and that's exactly what happened right here at Taylor's Falls. And right here at Interstate Park is a series of gigantic potholes. Now, these potholes are evidence of intense turbulence within swiftly moving deep water. In a minute here, I'll pull up... I've got a great shot. When Graham and I were there, I was in the bottom of one of these potholes, and Graham is peering over the rim, and I... It's a great shot, because you can really get the sense of the scale. I'll pull it up here in a second. But if we go, where did this water come from? This water came from right up here, Lake Nipigon. That was the source of this water. And when you go south of Lake Nipigon, the whole landscape is channel scab lands, just like Graham and I were seeing out in Washington.

   29. GHGraham Hancock14:35

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RCRandall Carlson14:35

       And this is very convincing evidence of really catastrophic water flows. And I've always thought it's interesting, or at least for the last decade or so, that if you look at the elevation of the land here, you look at the elevation of the land over here, it's the same. But if you go in the middle here, it's 500 to 1,000 feet lower. What happened here, there was a major discharge south out of, out of Lake Nipigon, came down through-
6. 15:09 – 20:19

   Dating the megafloods and the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis as a causal mechanism

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      What is the conventional explanation for these massive bluffs that are very far apart from each other with a relatively small river running through the middle of it?

   2. RCRandall Carlson15:17

      Try as I might, I've never found an explanation.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      Mm-hmm.

   4. RCRandall Carlson15:20

      But you can look here at this, and this is, this is pure, what you call scab land, which is the result of major erosional, intense erosion, cutting out... This is a coulee, but you look at the-

   5. GHGraham Hancock15:33

      It looks like somebody's just been picking scabs off the skin of the land, and that was these water flows rushing through it, filled with icebergs and whole forest rips, ripped up by their roots. Naturally, it looks like s- torn-up scabs.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:45

      And so-

   7. RCRandall Carlson15:45

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:46

      ... it's, it's your assertion that this all came out of the cataclysm, that this all came out of the impacts-

   9. RCRandall Carlson15:53

      Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       ... the comet impacts?

   11. RCRandall Carlson15:54

       Uh, James, James Teller, a geologist, has dated these flows, 12,800 to 12,900 years ago.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       And how has he done that?

   13. RCRandall Carlson16:03

       Radiocarbon dating, primarily by finding... If you have a flood and it's picking up anything organic, bone, wood, whatever, and you, you, you look in that, in those deposits, and you sample, and the samples... Let's say, because it's a flood, what it's gonna do, it's gonna pick up younger and older material, because it's washing away, it's excavating, uh, other land. And, and so what you do is you get enough, uh, dateable material, and if it keeps coming up that the maximum age is a given age, that's probably when the flood happened, or a minimum age, rather, not a maximum age. In other words, a flood might pick up stuff that's 15,000 years old and 12,000. Well, when did the flood happen? At 15,000 or 12,000? So what you do is you look for the youngest dateable material, and that should usually give you a pretty good idea of when the flood happened. So James Teller has dated this overflow here, and a- again, it comes out perfectly, uh, consistent with the Younger Dryas.

   14. GHGraham Hancock17:01

       I think it's important to, to add at that point that, that there's a reason for all of this, and this is, and, and this is a, a huge controversy in science at the moment. It's is, we, we know that there was enormous flooding 12,800 years ago, but the question is, what, what caused it? Why did it, why did it happen then? Uh, and, and there's a very powerful theory which is now backed by, by more than a hundred mainstream scientists, that, that the Earth passed through the debris stream of a disintegrating comet, and that theory is called the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis. And those several bits of that disintegrating comet might have been pretty big, maybe up to a kilometer in diameter, and they landed on the North American ice cap, generating huge amounts of heat, tremendous shockwave hits, hits the ice cap, and it turns that ice into water, and it rushes down southwards, fills up these lakes, overflows these lakes, and tears up the landscape un- un- underneath it. And this Younger Dryas impact hypothesis is by far, in my view, the best explanation of what's going on, and I'm...... I'm very happy to say that the Comet Research Group, the, the 100 scientists who are behind this, they've been funding their own research for nearly two decades because no big mainstream institution would get behind them. But just in the last couple of years, some big funding has come into the Comet Research Group and they're now in a position to go look at Antarctic ice, to go look at all the evidence from all over the world that shows that this cataclysm did happen 12,800 years ago, and that we're, we're dealing with something really that, that is almost unimaginable, uh, in it- in its scope, and which should change the way that we look at the history of the human species if it were not for this resistance. I, I wonder if we could, if we could just show a, a short clip which, which has got-

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:50

       Sure.

   16. GHGraham Hancock18:50

       ... Randall in it, the, the, the, the Randall clip-

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       Ah.

   18. GHGraham Hancock18:54

       ... um, which-

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       Give you the HDMI back.

   20. GHGraham Hancock18:56

       ... which, which, uh, whi- which is from The Ancient Apo- Apocalypse show, um, and, and, um, wh- where Randall makes the point at, at the end of it that o- once we take this into account, the whole story of history is going to, is, is, is gonna change completely, and that's what we're fighting for. We're fighting for some recognition that something really important is missing.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:19

       All right, here we go.

   22. GHGraham Hancock19:20

       Ancient structures built with surprising sophistication.

   23. NANarrator19:25

       It's the most amazing archeoastronomy site in North America.

   24. GHGraham Hancock19:30

       Revealing the fingerprints of an advanced prehistoric civilization.

   25. GCGuest (Graham Hancock or Randall Carlson, brief clip/voiceover)19:34

       This pillar is like our Rosetta Stone.

   26. GHGraham Hancock19:37

       The possibility of civilization emerging earlier than we think gets much stronger.

   27. RCRandall Carlson19:43

       It's gonna absolutely demand a rewriting of history as we know it.

   28. GHGraham Hancock19:49

       Ooh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       (laughs)

   30. GHGraham Hancock19:52

       (laughs) And this is the point, this is the point, this is why I've made this, I've made this series, because, because that idea has to get out there, that we've gotta stop being so complacent about how we look at our past, and for the very same reason, we d- need to stop being so complacent about how we look at our future as well. We live in a hazardous cosmic environment. It just happens that we live at a time in the human story where if we chose to do so, we could actually do something about it.

7. 20:19 – 24:36

   Hancock’s intellectual journey: from journalist to ‘Fingerprints’ and the controversy cycle

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:19

      What ma- what motivated you to get involved in this? Like, I know Fingerprints of the Gods you released in the '90s. It was '90-

   2. GHGraham Hancock20:25

      1995, Fingerprints of the Gods.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:26

      That's when I, I first read it-

   4. GHGraham Hancock20:27

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:28

      ... and I became obsessed. What, what motivated you to put that out?

   6. GHGraham Hancock20:33

      It was a process, really. Um, I, I used to be a current affairs journalist. I wa- I was the East Africa correspondent for The Economist. I had no interest in, in history whatsoever, but I began to come across things, particularly traveling initially in Ethiopia and then in Egypt, which made me wonder about the past. And, you know, standing in front of the Great Pyramid of Egypt is, is an awe-inspiring experience, especially when you've never seen it before. And in 1989 when I first saw it, I had never seen it before. Six million tons, 481 foot high, 13 acre footprint, this massive thing and archeologists are saying it's just the tomb of a pharaoh, and yet no pharaoh's body was ever found inside it or indeed inside any ancient Egyptian pyramid. There had to be another explanation. And I started to... I've always been a contrarian. I, I, I've always tried to give an opposite point of view. I hate it when there's just a single narrative that says, "This is the truth and there is no other truth." And so I, I, I felt it was important to start giving an alternative point of view and I started to look into it in depth. Could there be something missing from the story of our past? And that's, that's why I ended up writing Fingerprints of the Gods, to, to put that information before the public, to allow people access to information that they had not had access to before, and to begin to think for themselves instead of just accepting the word of the so-called experts. The experts know a great deal. I couldn't do anything I do without, uh, without the work that archeologists do, but they shouldn't be given a monopoly over the story of the human past. Our past belongs to us. It belongs to all of us. And everybody, whether they're an academic or whether they're a man in the street, they've got something to contribute to the idea of our past.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:13

      And the Younger Dryas impact theory, when was that first brought out?

   8. GHGraham Hancock22:18

      2007. That was, that was when it first brought out and immediately, it immediately caught my eye, uh, because when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods, I proposed that there had been a gigantic global cataclysm about 12,500 years ago, but I didn't really know what had caused it. I suggested a number of possibilities. And then suddenly in 2007, out comes this hypothesis with mainstream backing by mainstream scientists saying that it looks like there was a series, a s- not just one impact, but multiple impacts all over the Earth around 12,800 years ago that, that, that caused this cataclysm. And I began to follow that theory, and by about 2013, it became clear to me that these scientists were onto something really big and I dived back into it and, and ended up writing another couple of books, Magicians of the Gods and, and America Before, which we talked about on your show back in 20, in 2019, just to try to put that information out there. And, and it's fascinating really, and very lazy, the way that, uh, archeologists react to an alternative point of view. In my case, they almost never get to grips with the material that I've put out there in the books. They just say, "Oh, Hancock, he's a pseudo-scientist. Uh, he's a fraud. Uh, he's a liar." But they never say why I'm a pseudo-scientist, why I'm a fraud, or why I'm a liar. They just throw those words out and then you go to Wikipedia and that's what you see. And the point about Wikipedia is that's the first place ev- somebody hears my name or hears about my ideas, first place they're gonna go have a look is Wikipedia. And immediately, they're gonna get turned off. And you can't edit my Wikipedia page. They've locked it, and it's controlled by a group of academics. Uh, so I, I do find this, I do find this incredibly irritating, but the only thing to do is to keep on going. And this is why, frankly, Joe, your show has been so im-... important because you're one of the very few people who's allowed this information to get out to the general public, this contrary information which the mainstream doesn't want to hear. You're a powerful platform that's allowed this information to reach so many more people than it otherwise would have reached, and I'm grateful to you for that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:22

      Well, I'm grateful to you guys. Uh, I'm really grateful because this is s- it's such an exciting notion, it's such an exciting idea, and it makes sense when you look at these incredible structures that we don't really have an explanation for.

   10. GHGraham Hancock24:36

       Mm-hmm.

8. 24:36 – 32:44

   Göbekli Tepe, the 11,600-year date, and Atlantis as a chronological anchor

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:36

      And y- y- when we think about the conventional dating of modern history and modern civilization, they wanna put it at around 6,000-ish years ago.

   2. GHGraham Hancock24:47

      That's right. That's right. And, and, and then, you know, that has, that was the view really for decades, that they, that civilization began about 6,000 years ago, and before that, there was no such thing as civilization. And they say that the first big megalithic structures were created by societies that were already agricultural societies, so they were generating surpluses which allowed specialists to have the time to learn how to be architects and engineers and builders. But then suddenly out of the blue, and we've got an episode on this in the series, comes Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, which is 11,600 years old. It's, it's 5,000 years older than the supposed oldest megalithic structures, and it's a fucking enormous megalithic structure, probably the biggest megalithic structure on Earth because so much of it is still underground, although we've, we know what's there because of ground, ground-penetrating radar. Highly sophisticated, 20-ton pillars, beautiful astronomical alignments, buried, deliberately buried by the people who created. They ran it for about 1,000 years and, and then they deliberately buried it, and archeology is still struggling to explain this. They've now had to say, "Well, okay, uh, somehow megalithic architecture began thousands of years before we thought it began. How are we going to, how are we going to explain this?" And, and, and they have to accept, this is one of the mysteries of Gobekli Tepe, that, uh, the archeology does show this quite clearly that when the work began on Gobekli Tepe 11,600 years ago, the entire population there were hunter-gatherers. They were not agriculturalists generating those supposed surpluses that would allow experts in archeo- in, in architecture to emerge. They were hunter-gatherers. And how in God's name do a group of hunter-gatherers wake up one morning and create something like this? This i- this enormous scale? And then the mystery deepens because at the same time that they're building the megalithic site, they're also suddenly doing agriculture. And I look at that as a contrarian, and I say I actually don't think that this was something that was just dreamed up overnight by a group of hunter-gatherers. I think I'm looking at a transfer of technology. I think people came to that site who already knew how to do this stuff, and maybe they used that site to mobilize the local population to push them into a new direction, and that was truly the beginnings of civilization as we know it. But I think it was a restarting of civilization, a reboot, not the actual beginnings. I think there was an earlier lost civilization. And that's the, the, the whole point of the, of the show I've made.

   3. RCRandall Carlson27:17

      Well, why don't you men- about that particular date, 11,600?

   4. GHGraham Hancock27:20

      Well, it's incredibly important. It's an incredibly important date because the Younger Dryas begins 12,800 years ago with a cataclysm, with a puzzling mysterious rise in sea level at the same point, 1,000 years of freezing temperatures, mass extinctions of animal species all over the world. And then 11,600 years ago, global temperature shoots up, the last of the ice caps collapse into the sea, sea level rises enormously. That is the date that work starts at Gobekli Tepe, and that is a point I've made many times but it's really worth making because archeologists roll their eyes every time you say the word Atlantis, but that is precisely the date that Plato, which is the earliest surviving reference to Atlantis, that's precisely the date he gives for the destruction of Atlantis, 11,600 years before our time. He puts it this way, that his ancestor Solon visited Egypt, and we know about that visit. It's historically recorded. That visit to Egypt was in 600 BC, and there Solon claimed to have been told by Egyptian priests about this great advanced civilization that once existed, but that angered the gods and was destroyed in an enormous flood. And Solon asked those Egyptian priests, "When did this happen?" And they said, "Oh, 9,000 years ago." Well, do the math. That's in 600 BC. That's 9,000 years before 600 BC. We call that 9600 BC. That's 11,600 years ago. That's exactly the date of the end of y- of the Younger Dryas, and it's exactly the date of what is called meltwater pulse 1B, one of the biggest single rises overnight in sea level that ever occurred. So if Plato made it up, it's really weird that he picked a date that is precisely a date that coincides with the latest geological evidence on cataclysmic sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age.

   5. RCRandall Carlson29:17

      Could be a coincidence, but, uh...

   6. GHGraham Hancock29:18

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:19

      (laughs) A pretty good one.

   8. RCRandall Carlson29:20

      I will mention, I did a two-part, two-parter on all of the d- the, what Graham's just talking about and the geological evidence that confirms or refutes Plato's account, and it's available on my website, um, for download. And, uh, it's, like, seven hours.

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:39

      (laughs)

   10. RCRandall Carlson29:39

       Seven hours of detailed unpacking.

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:41

       Yeah, you go deep, bro. You go deep. (laughs)

   12. GHGraham Hancock29:43

       And you see, the academics have never bothered to do this because they, in their pride and in their arrogance, they just say, "Oh, we know that Plate- that, that Plato just made it up, that it's just a fantasy." They don't know that, and, and it's people right, like Randall coming from the outside who are actually doing the legwork that makes us think about all this again.

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:58

       And there's plenty of evidence that there were, were many sites like this that were thought to be just legend and myth, like Troy, for instance.

   14. GHGraham Hancock30:07

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:08

       ... that has now been proven to be an actual real city that mimics the initial descriptions of it-

   16. GHGraham Hancock30:13

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:13

       ... the historical descriptions of it.

   18. GHGraham Hancock30:14

       We should never dismiss myths. We should, we should always listen to them. They're the memory, they're the memory bank of our species, and they may be expressed in symbolic language. There may be wonderful stories built around them, but at the core is factual information. And what better way to ensure that factual information is passed down to the future than to record it in a fantastic story-

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Yeah.

   20. GHGraham Hancock30:38

       ... that people will pass on? People love telling stories, and they don't even need to understand what the heart of the story is. As long as it's a great story, they're gonna keep on passing it down to the future. So, I, I, I think myth is, myth is very important and that's something that we, we do in my Netflix series, is we look at the myths. The story of Atlantis is not alone. There are thousands-

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       Mm-hmm.

   22. GHGraham Hancock30:57

       ... of traditions from all around the world speaking of a global flood that destroyed a former civilization, that brought to an end a golden age.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       With all this physical evidence, and with all these myths, are there more and more people that are e- accepting this or exploring this with, with curiosity and open-mindedness now?

   24. RCRandall Carlson31:18

       I would say yes. And, and one of the things that m- makes me confident that that's happening is because I am getting a lot of emails and communications from people, young people going, "You know what? I was watching your stuff and Graham's stuff, I've decided I'm gonna go into geology."

   25. GHGraham Hancock31:35

       Yeah.

   26. RCRandall Carlson31:35

       I mean, I've gotten dozens. Or, "I'm gonna go into paleontology or archeoastronomy or, or archeology." So, just the fact that I'm getting those kinds of communications from people, that's, every time I get one, that's encouraging to me. Um, because I think it's, it's the old, uh, the old axiom that, you know, sometimes, y- you know, in order to evolve past a, an entrenched theory, the, the, the gatekeepers have to pass away and a new generation-

   27. GHGraham Hancock32:03

       Hmm.

   28. RCRandall Carlson32:03

       ... has to come along who's a little more willing to look outside that dogmatic framework.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:07

       Well, also, if you are a young archeologist and you're trying to carve your way in the world, what better way than to explore this with tons of evidence-

   30. RCRandall Carlson32:16

       Mm-hmm.
9. 32:44 – 50:29

   Psychedelics and consciousness: from ancient rites to modern therapy and DMT research

   1. JRJoe Rogan32:44

      I'm hopeful, I really am, and one of the things that gives me hope is Brian Muraresku's-

   2. GHGraham Hancock32:50

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:50

      ... r- r- the reception of his material, that book, The Immortality Key, which is fantastic, which points to real, clear-

   4. GHGraham Hancock32:57

      Which I, which I wrote the forward to.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:59

      Yes.

   6. GHGraham Hancock32:59

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:59

      And, and you did that podcast with us-

   8. GHGraham Hancock33:01

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan33:01

      ... remotely.

   10. GHGraham Hancock33:01

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Um, when we did that and he expressed all this d- all this information, we talked about these, uh, ancient clay vessels-

   12. GHGraham Hancock33:11

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan33:11

       ... that show clear evidence of some sort of psychedelic that was-

   14. GHGraham Hancock33:15

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       ... mixed in with wine that was probably the origins of a lot of these, a lot of the, like, the th- even democracy.

   16. GHGraham Hancock33:24

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:24

       A lot, like, the enlightenment, a lot of it came from these meetings, and people came from all over the world to participate in these rituals. This is now being widely accepted-

   18. GHGraham Hancock33:35

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:35

       ... and it's a field of study at Harvard.

   20. GHGraham Hancock33:36

       Yeah. And, you know, we're-

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       (laughs)

   22. GHGraham Hancock33:38

       L- let's think about it. If, if you're, if you're locked... L- this is one of the reasons why, why psychedelics are being so successful in healing people with, with profound depression. Because what is profound depression otherwise that you're locked in a very narrow frame that you just can't escape from? And what psychedelics seem to do is they break that lock and they allow a kind of openness to come in, and new, and new thoughts to come in. So it's, so it's not surprising that, that psychedelics revolutionized the ancient world. And I'm, I'm absolutely convinced that there isn't a religion in the world, and this is going to annoy (laughs) a lot of people, that there isn't a religion in the world that didn't begin with experiences in altered states of consciousness. And when we talk about a lost civilization, I believe that that was a civilization that grew out of shamanism and to which, for which altered states of consciousness were fundamental. We've been taught to despise altered states of consciousness in our society today. We're supposed to just be alert problem-solvers and not doing anything else. But it's out of altered states of consciousness that the real creativity comes, and the changes in mindset come, and the k- people can break free from previous restrictions and move in new directions.

   23. RCRandall Carlson34:48

       I have mentioned to you, uh, a friend of mine, uh, Ben Johnson. He's a former Navy SEAL, 11 years as a Navy SEAL, suffering from PTSD, discovered psilocybin mushrooms. This is maybe 12 years ago, 13 years ago. And he began to... Uh, a lot of his brothers in arms also were having the same issues with PTSD, discovered that psilocybin mushrooms were an e- a very effective treatment for it. So, he began looking into, um... He became a grower. And he's perfected in over, over, like, 11 or 12 years, he's perfected the growing technique. And he has now been granted the first federal license to legally grow psilocybin. And they're building a laboratory in North Georgia, and it'll probably be where we eventually will get all of our shrooms from. It would be a very interesting discussion for you to talk to him-

   24. JRJoe Rogan35:45

       I would love to talk to him.

   25. RCRandall Carlson35:46

       ... about, about what he's got going on. Um, and I've asked, I said, "Would you ever think about going on Joe's show and see, a- and talk about what you're doing?" He said, "I'd love to." Um, he's a very interesting man. But, yeah, e- eleven years as a Navy SEAL and he saw it all, and...... mushrooms is what saved his life. And now, he's building a laboratory. He's got funding, he's building a multimillion-dollar laboratory in North Georgia. I've seen this operation. It's mind-blowingly impressive what he's got going on.

   26. JRJoe Rogan36:15

       Well, that connects us with, uh, Dennis McKenna and Ter- Terence McKenna's-

   27. RCRandall Carlson36:19

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan36:19

       ... ideas-

   29. RCRandall Carlson36:19

       Mm-hmm.

   30. GHGraham Hancock36:20

       Yeah.
10. 50:29 – 54:33

    Cosmic hazard today: Taurid meteor stream, fireballs, and the purpose of ‘Ancient Apocalypse’

    1. GHGraham Hancock50:29

       It, it is indeed possible for, for it to happen again. And, and in, in the eighth episode of, of Ancient Apocalypse, one of, one of the scientists from the Comet Research Group makes that point, that, that the comet that disintegrated, that caused so much damage on Earth 12,800 years ago, its debris stream is still in orbit. The Earth passes through it twice a year, and in the next 30 years, we're gonna be passing through a very lumpy bit of this 30 million kilometer wide debris stream that's called the Taurid meteor stream. We should be paying much more attention to that because it's not doom and gloom, because we can do something about it, should we choose to do so. And let's, you know, let's stop focusing all our efforts on fighting one another and hating one another and filling the word with, world with anger and fury, and let's, let's work together as a human species to make life on this planet better for, better for everybody. That's, that's, that's what's going on now. There's a, there's a new mindset, uh, which is, which is, which is coming into force. And I, I celebrate the youth of our society today because they are refusing to be bound by the orders that are given to them by the powers that be. There's a new spirit of thinking for ourselves, and that new spirit is, in my view, gonna change everything. It seems like a dark time right now. A lot of stuff is going on. That's always the case when you're in the middle of a paradigm shift. It seems like a dark time. We're... But we're privileged to live at this time because 200, 300 years from now, this time is going to be looked back on as a turning point in the human story.

    2. RCRandall Carlson52:01

       We might mention it, speaking of the Taurid meteor shower, we are e- passing through the Taurid meteor stream right now as we speak.

    3. GHGraham Hancock52:08

       As we speak, yeah, yeah.

    4. RCRandall Carlson52:10

       Late October to about the second week in November, up till about the 15th or 17th of November, Earth is passing through that stream, and it probably is the most important meteor stream in terms of the history o- of recent life on this planet. And this goes, um, you know, to people like Bill Napier and-

    5. GHGraham Hancock52:28

       Yeah.

    6. RCRandall Carlson52:29

       ... Kube and all of those guys who've-

    7. GHGraham Hancock52:30

       Major astronomers-

    8. RCRandall Carlson52:32

       Yeah.

    9. GHGraham Hancock52:32

       ... uh, are, are very aware of this, and, and, and it's almost like something is trying to shut them down and stop the, stop the word getting out there. Yes, NASA has a, a search for near-Earth asteroids, but weirdly, they're not paying any attention to the Taurid meteor stream. We know that there's 200 objects in the Taurid meteor stream that are a kilometer or more in diameter. Comet Encke, which is the, at the heart of the stream, is, is almost five kilometers in diameter. Uh, it's all part of the, it's all of... These are all fragments of that original giant comet that began to disintegrate 12,800 years ago and that the Earth, that the Earth ran into.

    10. JRJoe Rogan53:08

        So is this... What are you showing me, Jimmy? This is a video on Twitter of the Taurid meteor stream, uh-

    11. GHGraham Hancock53:13

        It's a great time to see shooting stars.

    12. JRJoe Rogan53:14

        You can see one fireball pop up.

    13. GHGraham Hancock53:16

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan53:16

        Bam.

    15. GHGraham Hancock53:16

        There they go.

    16. RCRandall Carlson53:17

        Mm-hmm.

    17. GHGraham Hancock53:18

        That, that's exactly what happens. We're, we're, we're in that, we're in that time period now. And fortunately, most of those, those fireballs are caused by little objects, maybe the size of your fist, maybe just the size of a fingertip, maybe just a speck of dust burning up into the atmosphere. But they are shrouding very large objects that are on that same orbital trajectory which the Earth crosses twice a year, and we should be paying attention to those large objects because we can actually do something about them. And the evidence shows that they did something terrible to the Earth 12,800 years ago, and they changed everything, changed everything.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:00

        And that is what this Netflix series is all about.

    19. GHGraham Hancock54:03

        That's what Ancient Apocalypse is all about. It's why it's called Ancient Apocalypse because that's what it ultimately comes down to. Now, there's masses of material in the series about the possibility of a lost civilization and presenting the evidence for a lost civilization. Um, but, but ultimately, when you talk of a lost civilization, how did it become lost? What happened that took it away, that obliterated it from human memory? And this apocalyptic episode called the Younger Dryas is the

11. 54:33 – 1:05:24

    Sea-level rise, underwater archaeology, and anomalous sites: Bimini Road & Ice Age maps

    1. GHGraham Hancock54:33

       answer to that. The point I often make which I think is worth making again and again is how different the world was during the Ice Age.

    2. JRJoe Rogan54:40

       Mm-hmm.

    3. GHGraham Hancock54:41

       The Sahara Desert was green. It was a fertile place. Nobody's doing much archeology in the Sahara Desert today-... the Amazon rainforest, 5 million plus square kilometers under deep canopy. Hardly any archeology has been done there, and yet we know from lidar surveys that there are enormous structures under that canopy. And then what about sea level rise? 400 feet sea level rise at the end of the Ice Age, the prime real estate on Earth, 27 million square kilometers, it's about 10 million square miles, were submerged by rising sea levels at the end of the, at the end of the Ice Age. And again, archeology, there is marine archeology, but they're not really looking very closely at that. I wonder, Jamie, would it be possible to pull up the, the diving clip?

    4. JRJoe Rogan55:27

       Is this from Japan?

    5. GHGraham Hancock55:29

       No. This one's actually from Bimini. We have an episode on, on, on Bimini and on the very controversial structure called the Bimini Road.

    6. JRJoe Rogan55:36

       Oh, right.

    7. GHGraham Hancock55:38

       And this is just a little clip from that. My suspicion is humans are a species with amnesia. We have forgotten something incredibly important in our own past. And I think that that incredibly important forgotten thing is a lost advanced civilization of the Ice Age. I've spent decades searching for proof of this lost civilization at sites around the globe.

    8. JRJoe Rogan56:08

       Oh, wow.

    9. GHGraham Hancock56:10

       Now, my aim is to piece together these clues. And that seems extremely, uh, strange. To show you evidence that challenges the traditional view of human history.

    10. JRJoe Rogan56:23

        You see that?

    11. GHGraham Hancock56:24

        That-

    12. JRJoe Rogan56:24

        The Bimini Road.

    13. GHGraham Hancock56:25

        Mm-hmm. The Bimini Road (laughs) is not even very deep. It's only, it's only about 20 feet, 20 feet deep. It was one of the last things to be covered by Ice Age sea level rise, and that's why we show a graphic reconstruction of it above, above water. Um, it's made of extremely regular blocks, megalithic blocks, on a very large scale, more than 1,000 feet in length. Um, and, and, um, when you dive on it, and I've dived on it multiple times, and I went back to diving in order to dive on it again in this, in, in this series, it's impossible to believe that it's entirely a work of nature. And I took an, uh, uh, uh, a, a marine biologist there with me who's dived all over the world, and he agreed with me that there's just, there's just no way that this thing can be, can be explained as a totally natural phenomenon. When you look at-

    14. JRJoe Rogan57:10

        Can we see it, Jamie? Yeah, I'm trying to find a good picture. And what is the conventional reasoning for this?

    15. GHGraham Hancock57:17

        The conventional reasoning is that it's just beach rock, uh, fractured into natural patterns. But when you get there and get underneath those rocks, you see that they're propped up, they're leveled out with, with rocks underneath them, that the whole thing is been very carefully structured by, by human beings. And the point is then, another point I'd like to make is Bimini today is a tiny, tiny island, but Bimini during the Ice Age was part of an enormous island. The whole Grand Bahama Bank was above water, uh, an enormous island, and weirdly, that island turns up on an ancient map. It turns up, that's not the Bimini Road. But that-

    16. JRJoe Rogan57:58

        This is-

    17. GHGraham Hancock57:58

        ... is on the left, that's the Bimini Road, you've got the cursor on there. Yeah. Those are, those are shots of Bimini Road.

    18. JRJoe Rogan58:03

        Yeah, it's hard to believe that these uniform stones occurred naturally.

    19. GHGraham Hancock58:08

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan58:08

        And how long is this?

    21. GHGraham Hancock58:09

        About 1,000 feet in length, and it's not just a straight line. There's, it's, it's got a J-shaped curve at one end of it as well. Um, and, and we know that it's been underwater for about 6 or 7,000 years, but the question is how long before that was it made? How long did it stand there above water at a very prominent point on this ancient island that we now call the Grand Bahama Banks? And, and one of the mysteries I look into is that on an ancient map, the famous Piri Reis map drawn by a Turkish admiral in 1513, that Grand Bahama Banks as an above water island is shown, it is featured on the Piri Reis map. And what do you see running down it but a, an image of the Bimini Road, uh, above water. Now, how could Piri Reis, who's drew his map in 1513, have known this? He tells us the answer, that he based his map on more than 20 older source maps, all of which are now lost. And he suggests that those maps had come out of the famous Library of Alexandria, and that they'd been taken to Constantinople, and that's where he got access to them. Somebody, I believe, was mapping the world, was exploring the Earth during the Ice Age, and left us ancient maps that show features that only existed during the Ice Age. Um-

    22. RCRandall Carlson59:32

        Oh, that's the Orontius Finius, isn't it?

    23. GHGraham Hancock59:34

        No, no, this is Piri Reis.

    24. RCRandall Carlson59:35

        Oh, that's Piri Reis.

    25. GHGraham Hancock59:36

        Just go down south, but down, i- it's on its side at the moment-

    26. RCRandall Carlson59:39

        Yeah.

    27. GHGraham Hancock59:40

        ... but down, down there in the lower left, if you bring the cursor down, that, that, yeah, that big island down there in the lower left, that island is exactly where the Grand Bahama Banks were, uh, uh, an above water version of the Grand Bahama Banks during the Ice Age. And that feature running down the middle of it (laughs) looks very like the Bimini Road to me.

    28. RCRandall Carlson59:59

        Yeah, well, it does.

    29. JRJoe Rogan59:59

        Mm.

    30. RCRandall Carlson1:00:01

        Wow.
12. 1:05:24 – 1:15:56

    Egypt revisited: Sphinx water-weathering, re-carving theory, and pyramid precision puzzles

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:05:24

       And this is... This coincides with, uh, Dr. Robert Schoch's-

    2. GHGraham Hancock1:05:27

       Absolutely.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:05:28

       ... assertion that we're... When you look at the Temple of the Sphinx, you're dealing with thousands of years of water erosion.

    4. GHGraham Hancock1:05:33

       Yes. Yes.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:05:35

       And the last time there was water like that in the Nile Valley was when?

    6. GHGraham Hancock1:05:40

       The last time you had the water erosion like that in the Nile Valley was precisely during the Younger Dryas. The Younger Dryas was a period of extremely heavy rains in Africa, and it's rainfall, it's, it's erosion caused by heavy rains that is the enigma on the Great Sphinx. It's not... We're not saying that there was a flood came over the Great Sphinx. What, what Robert Schoch is saying and what his evidence clearly demonstrates is that we're looking at what's called precipitation induced weathering, weathering that was caused by exposure to about 1,000 years of extremely heavy rainfall. And Dr. Robert Schoch puts that 1,000 years precisely in the Younger Dryas period. That's the last time that rains of that magnitude fell on Egypt, and it's why we cannot sensibly accept the insistence of Egyptologists that the Sphinx is just four and a half thousand years old. By all means, yes, 2500 BC, the ancient Egyptians were there, but I believe they found the Sphinx already created and already heavily eroded and that they then re-carved its head into the head of a pharaoh, and that head, as Robert Schoch and others have pointed out, um, is, uh, way too small in relation to the body. That makes sense if it was a heavily eroded lion head which was then later cut down into the head of a pharaoh. The geology speaks to the original Sphinx being more than 12,000 years old, and that's the funny thing because...... when the, when, when Robert Schoch and, and let's not forget John Anthony West. John Anthony West, and I know you had him on his show before he passed-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:07:14

       Yes.

    8. GHGraham Hancock1:07:14

       ... John Anthony West was the first person to suggest that there should be a huge question mark over the Sphinx, that the erosion patterns on the Sphinx suggests it was much older than Egyptologists said, and, uh, and maybe 12,000 years old. And at that time, uh, the response of Egyptology was, "Oh, rubbish. The Sphinx can't possibly be 12,000 years old because there's no other megalithic monument anywhere in the world that's anywhere like 12,000 years old." Well, that got blown out of the water completely, forever by the discovery of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, which isn't even that far from Egypt. Gobekli Tepe, 11,600 years old, a giant megalithic site. My goodness, if you can make Gobekli Tepe, you can make the Sphinx. It adds hugely to the credibility of Robert Schoch's argument, and I want to pay tribute to Robert Schoch because there's a mainstream academic who's been willing to stick his neck out. Despite taking all sorts of slings and arrows from his colleagues, he sticks with the data, and what the data says, regardless of what Egyptologists say, is that the Sphinx is 12,000 plus years old.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:08:19

       And Jamie, can you pull up some of the images of that? Because it is really compelling. When you look at the water erosion evidence that is all around the Temple of the Sphinx, it's, it's really fascinating stuff, even for someone who doesn't know much about erosion.

    10. GHGraham Hancock1:08:33

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:08:34

        But when you, when you look at it through his descriptions and his-

    12. GHGraham Hancock1:08:37

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:08:37

        ... uh, understanding of the, the various levels of stone, how some of it is harder, and this is the reason why-

    14. GHGraham Hancock1:08:44

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:08:44

        ... some of it is eroded less. And-

    16. GHGraham Hancock1:08:46

        You see it, you see it most clearly in the, in the trench surrounding the Sphinx. You see it there.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:08:51

        Right.

    18. GHGraham Hancock1:08:51

        Uh, those, those deep vertical fissures are classic precipitation-induced weathering, classic weathering produced by rainfall pouring over the edge of that. You don't see it so much on the body of the Sphinx for a very specific reason: that the body of the Sphinx has been repeatedly restored. Some of those blocks-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:09:09

        We can see it.

    20. GHGraham Hancock1:09:09

        ... that we're looking at there were actually put in place during the Old Kingdom when the Sphinx is supposed to have been made from f- from new. What were they doing restoring the Sphinx 4,500 years ago if they'd just built it? You know, logic needs to be applied to this whole process, and we need to free ourselves from the dogma, uh, of, of the academic mainstream, and-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:09:28

        So, so if this was all... if this water erosion began thousands and thousands of years ago, uh, would y- thousands and thousands of years earlier than conventional Egyptologists date this era, how old do you think that actual civilization was? Like, how far back?

    22. GHGraham Hancock1:09:46

        I think it, I think it could go back 20,000 years before that. Uh, I think it was around all that time. And again, this is a point that I think needs to be made. Um, archaeologists will tell you that the entire population of the Earth were hunter-gatherers during the Ice Age, t- say, 20,000 years ago at the peak of the last Ice Age. Everybody was hunter-gatherers according to archaeologists. But we today live in a world where an advanced civilization, our own, if we dare call ourselves advanced, and in some ways, I think we're not advanced at all, coexists with hunter-gatherers. There are hunter-gatherers in the Amazon Rainforest. Some of them don't even know we exist. They've been spotted from aerial surveys. Hunter-gatherers in the Namibian Desert. The notion that different types of civilization can coexist on the same planet shouldn't be surprising to us because we do it, and that's what I'm suggesting was the case back then, but a civilization very different from our own. They certainly had technology, enough technology to explore the Earth, enough technology to map the Earth, very advanced astronomy, knowledge of obscure astronomical phenomena such as the precession of the equinoxes, such as the obliquity of the ecliptic. I won't go into details, but it's present in ancient knowledge. There's an amazing book, um, which I may have mentioned to you before, Joe, a book, a book called Hamlet's Mill, and it was written by two professors of the history of science, Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Deschen back in the '60s. And what... That book is dynamite because it shows, going back into the oldest myths and traditions of the world, highly advanced astronomical knowledge, ad- astronomical knowledge that should not have been possessed by hunter-gatherer civilizations, astronomical knowledge that could only have been accumulated through thousands of years of careful observation and recording of data. That astronomical m- m- knowledge is present in the most ancient myths of mankind. And in fact, it was that book, Hamlet's Mill, just as much as my first experience in front of the Great Pyramid, that led me to begin asking questions about the narrative of our past, and I think it's healthy that we should have an alternative narrative, and I can't understand why archaeology is so... I have to say so afraid of alternative narratives. Because if they're, if they're not afraid, why do they react in this way as though we're some kind of existential threat? Why do they block me from getting access to sites if they're not afraid? If they're confident of their position, they should be able to maintain it against all opposition rather than trying to censor other points of view.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:12:28

        N- now the Great Pyramid of Giza is probably the most stunning of all these ancient structures, and the, the stones are immense and some of them were cut from a quarry that's f- hundreds of miles away. How do you think they did that?

    24. GHGraham Hancock1:12:42

        Well, some of them, the, the granite in the Great Pyramid comes from more than 500 miles to the south. Um, if you look at the famous King's Chamber, its walls and its roof are, uh, the, the ceiling of the King's Chamber are all made with gigantic, uh, granite blocks that-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:12:58

        Stunning detail.

    26. GHGraham Hancock1:12:59

        Stunning detail. Those, those blocks on the King's Ch- on the roof of the King's Chamber weighs 70 tons each. Now Egyptologists will tell you that, oh, they could move heavy blocks because they put them on wet sand and they push them along on wet sand. Well, maybe if you're just at ground level, that will do, but when you're 350 feet above the ground as you are in the (laughs) King's Chamber, that won't do at all. I don't know how they did it, all I know is they did it. I don't think anybody knows how they did it, how they lifted those stones, how they brought them up to that level. I think we're looking again at a lost technology, and it was this ancient apocalypse 12,800 years ago that wiped that from the human memory banks almost completely. Not entirely completely because there were survivors, but-... removed most of it. Randall will tell you, uh, sea level rise, it creates a powerful high energy zone.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:13:48

        Mm-hmm.

    28. GHGraham Hancock1:13:48

        Anything that was existing on those, on those flooded coastlines has just been pounded to hell. I mean, talk about it, Randall.

    29. RCRandall Carlson1:13:56

        Well, yeah, I mean, it's gonna be a lot more energetic than now. I mean, imagine your sea level rising at three or four times, at least, faster than we've seen rise in the last century, and within there, juxtaposed are these episodes of very rapid sea level rise. So, you're talking about a, a very energetic intertidal zone, and anything that's there, short of large megalithic blocks, is going to be utterly obliterated by the time the processes is through. And I think that this is one of the things that, you know, the archaeologists and the pre-historians, people who are looking at that, have failed to take into account the severity of these events we're talking about. Because the question always is, where are the artifacts? Where's the pottery? Where is the, the evidence that this civilization existed? And I have two responses to that. One, you don't realize the extent of the, the total remodeling of this planetary surface that took place, because, I mean, we could get into some of the stuff here. I have tons of images where I think maybe we'll get a chance to pull up a couple of really awesome drone footage here before we're done. But once you begin to wrap your head around it, you go, "Really?" You know, it's like, imagine that you drop an atomic bomb on a city, and it completely obliterates it, and then a short while later, you drop another one on the same place. What's gonna be left? And then 10,000 years, 20,000 years goes by, what are you gonna be fi- what are you gonna find? What are you gonna look for? You know, it's gonna be just rubble that gets reincorporated just into the geological stratum, and it's gonna be very difficult to, um, differentiate for, for example, from what's called the conglomeritic rock, which is basically where you have just a huge jumble of broken rock cemented together, right? Now, within there, there could be all kinds of stuff that's not even recognized as being artificial in the sense that humans had anything to do with it. The other thing

13. 1:15:56 – 1:49:13

    Speculative tech and ‘lost methods’: resonance, Tesla threads, and secrecy claims

    1. RCRandall Carlson1:15:56

       is, is when we talk about these ancient technologies, if we're only looking for a mirror reflection of ourselves, we could overlook it completely, because there is, I think, there's evidence that exists now, I mean, modern, some modern researchers whose work has been buried or suppressed, I think we're getting very close to rediscovering some of the things that, um, our ancient ancestors were up to. And maybe this would be worth a whole show in itself. We could dive into this, and I don't wanna get into that today.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:16:30

       But what kind of technologies are you talking about?

    3. RCRandall Carlson1:16:32

       Um... Well, I just... (laughs) I shouldn't really get into that.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:16:37

       Get into it.

    5. GHGraham Hancock1:16:38

       Get into it, Randall.

    6. RCRandall Carlson1:16:39

       Come on.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:16:39

       We gotta get into it.

    8. RCRandall Carlson1:16:41

       Okay, well-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:16:41

       We've opened the door, sir. (laughs)

    10. RCRandall Carlson1:16:43

        Okay, well... Okay. (sighs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:16:47

        The passing of the HDMI cable.

    12. RCRandall Carlson1:16:49

        The passing. (laughs)

    13. GHGraham Hancock1:16:51

        (laughs)

    14. RCRandall Carlson1:16:51

        The passing of the cable.

    15. GHGraham Hancock1:16:51

        A sacred moment. (laughs)

    16. RCRandall Carlson1:16:57

        Well, there are people out there now who have been working on trying to rediscover that, and, a- and- and again, I don't want to digress too much into this now, because I, I would really rather be able to give a whole treatment of it-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:17:13

        Okay.

    18. RCRandall Carlson1:17:13

        ... and it might kind of derail us a little bit from this. But there are people who've been working on these things for, for decades now, basically in secret. In secret. And I've had the privilege of talking to some of these people over the last six or seven years, and right now as we're speaking, there's a g- there's a group of people who, who are basically going to open source a whole lot of stuff in the next three months so it can never get suppressed again. And that's why I'd like to come back and talk in more detail about it.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:17:44

        Well, I'd love to have you come back and talk about it, but we gotta talk about it a little bit now.

    20. GHGraham Hancock1:17:47

        Hm.

    21. RCRandall Carlson1:17:48

        Ah, okay, well, uh, there's a laboratory right now in the Maldives that's been building prototypes using these technological principles, which are based on implosion rather than explosion, and the-

    22. GHGraham Hancock1:18:05

        And, and, and Tesla-

    23. RCRandall Carlson1:18:05

        ... inspiration for this-

    24. GHGraham Hancock1:18:06

        Tesla, Tesla's ideas are part of it, I think you mentioned to me.

    25. RCRandall Carlson1:18:09

        Tesla's ideas are very much a part of it. Um, yes, Tesla's ideas are very much a part of it. Um, so is, I don't know if you're ever, Viktor Schauberger-

    26. GHGraham Hancock1:18:18

        No.

    27. RCRandall Carlson1:18:18

        ... who did the work with water and discovered... Uh, yeah. Look up, um, Jamie, could you look up Viktor? Oh, I have the, uh- Yeah. I have the cable now, don't I? I can take it back. Let me find it real quick. Well, no, no, I, I, let me, let me pull something up here and, uh...

    28. GHGraham Hancock1:18:37

        I think the key thing is, we're, we're looking at technologies that are not the same as ours.

    29. RCRandall Carlson1:18:42

        Yes, yes, that's the point.

    30. GHGraham Hancock1:18:42

        And that's partly why archaeologists can't see them, because they're looking for us in the past, and they're not open to the possibility that there are whole other kinds of technology that could be used.

Episode duration: 2:53:25