Joe Rogan Experience #1901 - Steven Pressfield

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. SPSteven Pressfield0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Good to see you, man. What's happening?

   4. SPSteven Pressfield0:14

      It's good to see you, Joe.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      With a nice stack of books here. What do we got here? Government Cheese: A Memoir. Is this your memoir?

   6. SPSteven Pressfield0:20

      This is my memoir, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Ah, exciting.

   8. SPSteven Pressfield0:24

      Of, uh, of my 27 years in the wilderness.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      And, uh, Put Your Ass Where Your Heart Wants To Be. This is, uh-

   10. SPSteven Pressfield0:32

       That's sort of like a War of Art type of book as you can tell from the size of it and everything.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       After writing The War of Art, did you ... 'Cause you wr- you also w- wrote Turning Pro, right?

   12. SPSteven Pressfield0:42

       Yeah, and a few others.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah, but this-

   14. SPSteven Pressfield0:44

       In the same-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       On the same, along the same-

   16. SPSteven Pressfield0:46

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       ... vein.

   18. SPSteven Pressfield0:46

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       You just felt like you have more to, to squeeze out of that? It's like, it's such an important subject for, for artists and for creative people. I mean, that book, The War of Art, changed so many people.

   20. SPSteven Pressfield0:59

       Let me ask you, Joe. What, uh, w- why did that resonate with you?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       (clicks tongue) Well, there was some stuff that he talked about that it was almost, like, unspoken. And one of 'em is the concept of resistance. And, and that the fact that you treated the muse as if it was a, a, like a real, living entity. Like, you-

   22. SPSteven Pressfield1:21

       Which I think it is, yeah. She is.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Well, she is. Whatever it is.

   24. SPSteven Pressfield1:25

       Uh-huh.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       That thing where if you show up and you put in the work, creativity s- just sort of ev- sort of gives birth. It, it sort of, uh, erupts. It comes out. It, it manifests. It ... There's something to it. And, and just, uh, I kind of always had this, like, inkling that that was a thing or this thought that that was a thing. But until I read your book, it was ... It's like you had ... You, you made it real. You, like, you, you, you just, like-

   26. SPSteven Pressfield1:57

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       ... you laid it out and, like, "Here's the problem, this is what's going on, and this is what you gotta do. You just gotta show up every day, and put in the work, and be a, a damn professional." And y- so many people that I gave that book to, I used to have a stack of 'em in my old studio, and I would just hand them to people.

   28. SPSteven Pressfield2:13

       Uh-huh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       "Like, dude, just read this. Trust me." And it wasn't a hard read, you know? It wasn't a giant book. But it was so valuable because it, it just, like ... Uh, I guarantee you, there's so many people, there were so many days where people sat in front of their c- their computer or a notepad where they wouldn't have because of that book.

   30. SPSteven Pressfield2:33

       Mm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. SPSteven Pressfield15:00

      shift into the, into that greater Self, that's when you really are starting to tap into great stuff. That's where the great stuff comes from-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:07

      Yeah.

   3. SPSteven Pressfield15:07

      ... right? And that puts the ego out of a job. At least that ... This is my theory, Joe. So the ... I think that the ego produces it. I mean, it's be- interest- it's interesting sort of ... Animals don't experience resistance. I'm sure they don't, right? Be-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:21

      Right. But they also don't-

   5. SPSteven Pressfield15:22

      ... be- 'cause they're-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      ... experience creativity.

   7. SPSteven Pressfield15:24

      True. But, but they're in that greater world, I think, naturally, you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      Right.

   9. SPSteven Pressfield15:29

      Um, they're-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       They're free.

   11. SPSteven Pressfield15:31

       ... th- they, they're in that God energy, you know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:33

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SPSteven Pressfield15:33

       An eagle or somebody that's flying, you know, you watch like the tiniest little wings or feathers even, you know, control it. They're not thinking about anything, right, when they're hunting or whatever it is. So anyway, that's, that's my theory on what, on what resistance is. Now, Seth Godin, you know who he is, he's a believer that it's the, uh, the, um-

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       Who is Seth Godin? I do not know who he is.

   15. SPSteven Pressfield15:54

       S- Seth Godin is a kind of a marketing guru, one of the earliest guys on, on the, on the internet from way back when, when it first began, and, uh, is a great, um, teacher of marketing and stuff like that, and also a wonderful guy-

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:11

       There he is.

   17. SPSteven Pressfield16:12

       ... and this ... there he is ... in the sense that he is m- highly ethical dude. Like, when he talks about, um, businesses, startups, and all the things that he's kind of, uh, helping people with, ethics is a huge part of it. So I really respect the guy. And he's a great deep thinker too. Now he thinks it's what he calls the lizard brain, the amygdala, which I'm not even sure what that is. I guess it's the reptile brain at the back of your head, that that's what's producing something that wants ... producing resistance. But anyway, I respect his thinking on that, but I think it's what I just explained to you or ...

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       What you're saying makes a lot of sense. And the, the ego, whatever that thing is that i- it's, it's so interesting how it's not able to see that it would actually benefit the ego if you didn't have resistance.

   19. SPSteven Pressfield17:07

       Yes.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       Which is really weird.

   21. SPSteven Pressfield17:09

       Yeah. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Yeah. Because if, if the ego was wise and, and had like foresight, it could see the future going, "Oh, if we just like just give in and relax and l- relinquish control, then we're gonna come up with better stuff and our life's gonna be better."

   23. SPSteven Pressfield17:25

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:25

       "Be able to buy a nicer house."

   25. SPSteven Pressfield17:27

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:27

       You know, maybe be-

   27. SPSteven Pressfield17:28

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       ... able to go on trips. You'll, your, your, your work will do well. Everything will be good."

   29. SPSteven Pressfield17:33

       It's a de- it's a deep subject because also-

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:35

       Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      bothers you. You feel so good. You've all- you've tooken your tension like, like your body's a wet rag and just rang out all the tension, just dripped it out. And the fact that you have to do it every day, it kind of eliminates this whole resistance thing, because you can't entertain it. And because we're all accountable and we're all texting each other, and you know, we're in a group text...

   2. SPSteven Pressfield30:25

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      It was great. It's great.

   4. SPSteven Pressfield30:27

      So, why not do it 12 months of the year?

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:30

      Um, I don't know if it's sustainable, but what I am doing is five days a week.

   6. SPSteven Pressfield30:34

      Uh-huh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:34

      So, five days a week, I do it now. So, instead of seven days a week, I do it five days a week.

   8. SPSteven Pressfield30:38

      Uh-huh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:39

      Which is, uh, 'cause I travel, do-

   10. SPSteven Pressfield30:41

       Uh-huh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       ... other stuff. It's-

   12. SPSteven Pressfield30:42

       Uh-huh.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       ... it's more sustainable. But it seems very effective. So, today, uh, I bitched out, so now I know that, uh, I only have six more days... Well-

   14. SPSteven Pressfield30:51

       Uh-huh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       ... you know, I, I worked out yesterday. But there's only a certain amount of days in the week. Right? So, now, I've got three more days that I must get in. No if, ands, or buts. Those have to be done, 'cause I did Monday and Tuesday, and then I fucked off today, so I've got other days. But I've gotta... But it's not the same as if, if you, if you're doing it every day, like, if it's a religion, which is why I understand why people would get up in the morning, and you have to pray. Get up in the morning, you know, face the east, get on your hands and knees and bow. Like, it, there's something to that that hijacks all of that resistance shit. All of the things that hold you back from finding your greater self. All the things that hold you back from accomplishing your true potential in this life.

   16. SPSteven Pressfield31:41

       Yeah. And I think w- what that is, to me, is an exercise, like, a ritualistic exercise in overcoming resistance.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:49

       Yes.

   18. SPSteven Pressfield31:49

       And in getting into that other, that greater place. Right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:52

       Yes.

   20. SPSteven Pressfield31:52

       When you say, "wrung out," that's you're wrung out of every ego thought.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSteven Pressfield31:57

       Right? You're wrung out of all your negative s- thoughts. Right? You're not being jealous of anybody else. You're not being competitive with anybody else.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       Yeah.

   24. SPSteven Pressfield32:04

       So, I think... I mean, I'm sure that... I'm not a meditator, but I'm, I imagine that that's what that's all about. Right? You get up every morning, and you center yourself, and you do all that sort of thing.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:14

       Yeah.

   26. SPSteven Pressfield32:14

       And, and you get to that, to that place. So I'm all... I'm a total believer in what you're talking about, Joe.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:21

       Yeah. I think that's probably with people who have the, the... Whoever the original writers of various religions, the way they crafted it, I think all of those rules and regulations, and... And, uh, not just keeping society order, but keeping you ordered. Like, keeping your mind ordered. Like, they, they, they knew there was something-

   28. SPSteven Pressfield32:45

       Yeah. Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:46

       There was, like, a disconnect-

   30. SPSteven Pressfield32:47

       Yes.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think…

   1. SPSteven Pressfield45:00

      you know, driving a cab for a living, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:02

      Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think projects are really important for people, 'cause, uh, things to concentrate on that you c- That's like a, a, a solid, tangible thing you, you're working on.

   3. SPSteven Pressfield45:13

      Yeah, it's like your Sober October, yeah, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or a book, right?

   5. SPSteven Pressfield45:17

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      Or a, a, you know, a comedy special, or so- so so- like, think... I think if people just have sort of open-ended things and just like-

   7. SPSteven Pressfield45:28

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:28

      "Oh, I'm trying to eat healthy."

   9. SPSteven Pressfield45:29

      Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:29

       "I'm trying to lose weight." Like how are you trying to lose weight? Like what are you doing-

   11. SPSteven Pressfield45:33

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:33

       ... specifically? What's, what's the, what's the program you're on?

   13. SPSteven Pressfield45:37

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Like show me the program. "Well, you know, I try to get to the gym more. I try..." No, no, no, no, no, every fucking day show me what you're doing. Let's go. Show me what you're doing. Like let's, let's, let's form a real program.

   15. SPSteven Pressfield45:49

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       And if you do that, then you see the real changes. That's when you see people lose like 100 pounds and start getting really healthy or write a book. You're like, "You finished the book?" And then you read the book. Like, "Holy shit, this is great."

   17. SPSteven Pressfield46:00

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       'Cause you realize they had a goal.

   19. SPSteven Pressfield46:02

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       They got together with that, that mindset, and they went to work. And if you just kinda dilly-dally, and you don't have a very specific goal and direction, it's very hard to make real headway. You know, it's very r- hard to really accomplish a thing.

   21. SPSteven Pressfield46:19

       The other thing to me, um, and I'm just speaking for myself, is it's not enough to have just a generic goal, a goal that anybody else could do, like, "I'm gonna lose X number of pounds," or, "I'm gonna do that." I think it needs to be something creative that's coming from, with you that only you could do, even if it's a, if it's a business, you know, if it's you're gonna design motorcycles, you're gonna build a motorcycle, whatever it is. Because then when you have a project like that, like a book, right? You start... You're gonna write a book, right? That book has a life of its own. Or you make a movie, or you start a business, or whatever it is. That thing has a life of its own. And particularly if it's coming out of your heart and your inner self, like for me or for anybody that writes a book, nobody else could write that book, whatever it is. You're in your own lane, tapped into something that's coming from you, from your deepest self, you know? And as the weeks and months go by, shit comes into you from all kinds of places that, that you never knew you had in you. And that's an amazing experience, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SPSteven Pressfield47:27

       And by the end of that book, you look at it, you go, "I wrote that?" That's... Or you even say to yourself, "That's not me." You know? "Where did that come from?" But it is you 'cause you did it. You know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:39

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SPSteven Pressfield47:39

       Or if you start a business, and suddenly it becomes, you know, whatever it becomes. Uh, I think, I think it's more important than just something generic like, uh, you know, lose weight or something like that or run a marathon. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But if you can pull something out of your own heart, out of, you know, that, that really lives within you, that's tremendous. And the other thing I'll say is, at least in my experience, when a book comes along, and I sort of get the orders from the goddess, it's always a surprise to me, the subject matter of the book, you know? Like my f- my first book was about golf, right? The Legend of Bagger Vance.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:19

       Yeah.

   27. SPSteven Pressfield48:19

       Then what came after that was Gates of Fire, a book about the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. I would have never have thought of either of those books coming out of me. Those subjects were... It wasn't like I dreamt of that my whole life. So I say to myself when that happens, "Where is this coming from?" You know? "What, what is this all about?" You know, "Why did that come out of me, followed by that, followed by that?" And I still don't know what it means, but it's, it's kinda, it's fascinating, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:51

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SPSteven Pressfield48:52

       Um, you look back at a thing like Bruce Springsteen's albums. If you could, you know, write them all down on a page, you go, "Hmm, why did that come after, you know, Tom Joad and, you know, The River or Darkness at the Edge of Town?"

   30. JRJoe Rogan49:05

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   I mean, we're sort…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      you, you're just showing up. You're showing up and you're getting out of the way. You're getting out of the way, and then the stuff comes through you, and then you write it all out."

   2. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:13

      I mean, we're sort of, again, we're kind of talking about, to me, the greater self or the-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

      Yeah.

   4. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:16

      ... unconscious or that thing. I mean, what is it... Like, I know sometimes I, uh... If, let's say I've been working all day on something and I go and I take a walk at the end of the day, and, um, my mind is empty as I'm going along. And suddenly, uh, it'll come into my mind, there's a typo on page 178.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

      Hmm.

   6. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:35

      And I'll go, "What?" And of course, it's right, right?

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

      Hmm.

   8. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:38

      As soon as I go back, I look at it, it's there. So some mind, some level of consciousness is operating, right? So below our, below our level of consciousness.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

      Yeah.

   10. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:51

       So maybe it's just as simple as tapping into that. But going back-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       I think there's more to that, though.

   12. SPSteven Pressfield1:00:56

       There's... Back to... I would say, going back to what you were just saying a couple of minutes ago, Joe, that there's sort of two halves of it. The one half is the sort of the airy-fairy half that talks about something coming from-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSteven Pressfield1:01:08

       ... somewhere we don't know. But the other half is a disciplined half.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       Yeah.

   16. SPSteven Pressfield1:01:11

       The other half is, you know, it's a right brain, left brain, right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

       Right.

   18. SPSteven Pressfield1:01:15

       Where we've kind of made that instrument, our body, our mind, ready to accept that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       Yeah.

   20. SPSteven Pressfield1:01:21

       You know, to tune into the cosmic radio station, and whatever's coming in, to remember it, to take it seriously, you know, to put it down, and then to work with it, you know? So...... it's, it's... To me, it's like a symphony exists on another dimension of reality, but it takes Beethoven here, who knows how to do it, knows how to bring it in, knows how to open himself to it, but also has the chops, has the musical chops, and, you know, the, and the, uh, intellectual chops to put it together into a form that you and I can listen to.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       Yeah.

   22. SPSteven Pressfield1:02:01

       So to me, it's kind of right brain, intellect, it's two things.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

       Well, there's a thought too, right? And this thought is, why have people throughout time, why have they gravitated towards these, these ideas of deities? Is it just because we don't know? We see lightning in the sky and we assume it's gods? But there's more to it than that, right? There's, there's a moral structure that these things give us. There's a, there's a thing that we get out of them that isn't exi- doesn't exist in the, the animal world. The world-

   24. SPSteven Pressfield1:02:33

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:33

       ... of that crocodile snapping that pig-

   26. SPSteven Pressfield1:02:35

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:35

       ... in half.

   28. SPSteven Pressfield1:02:35

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:36

       The world doesn't... That, that, that, they don't have any of that.

   30. SPSteven Pressfield1:02:38

       Yeah.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:18:01

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      recaptured by the Americans and brought back to, you know, quote unquote-

   2. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:05

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:05

      ... "civilization." They all wanted to go back.

   4. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:08

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:08

      They all wanted to go back.

   6. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:09

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:10

      To a, to a man.

   8. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:11

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:11

      No one from that tribe wanted to join-

   10. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:14

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15:14

       ... modern civilization. But everyone from modern civilization wanted to be a part of that tribe.

   12. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:20

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:15:20

       Once th- once they, you know, were incorporated in it and they lived that life for a while, there's something about it that was far more satisfying and, uh, far more ... it resonated with them in a way that, you know. And even then, I mean, this very primitive society we're talking about, 1860s America, but that, that was not exciting. That was not satisfying. That was not what they wanted to do. They wanted to live off the land.

   14. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:44

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:15:45

       They wanted to be traveling.

   16. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:47

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:15:47

       Just, you know, hunting buffalo.

   18. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:49

       I mean, can we go back to that? I don't know (laughs) if we can go back to that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:15:52

       I don't think we can. (laughs) I don't think there's any going back.

   20. SPSteven Pressfield1:15:53

       But it does seem to be the way that the human being is the happiest, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:15:58

       Well, I think it's the way we evolved. And these human reward systems are just sort of ingrained in the fiber of our being.

   22. SPSteven Pressfield1:16:07

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:16:07

       And th- the, the reward systems are, there's a feeling that you get when you catch a fish. You ever go fishing?

   24. SPSteven Pressfield1:16:12

       Uh, I have.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:16:13

       When you catch-

   26. SPSteven Pressfield1:16:14

       But I'm not good at it. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:16:15

       You don't have to be good at it. But there's a feeling that you get when you get a big fish on the line. It's so exciting. Well, what is that feeling? That feeling is you're gonna be able to feed your family.

   28. SPSteven Pressfield1:16:23

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:16:24

       So you're rewarded for being successful at that with not just food, but also with this rush of endorphins and these great feelings.

   30. SPSteven Pressfield1:16:32

       Uh-huh.

Episode duration: 2:48:06