EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,104 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- JBJon Bernthal
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (heavier rock music) You know, I grew up in, in, in DC and, um, I, I think about the people, you know, who, who were my teachers, and, you know, my parents, my friends' parents, and, uh, y- you know, they're sort of at the forefront of, uh, y- y- y- you know, troops coming home and getting-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
... fucking spit on and, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
... and you, you, you got people, y- you know, you're coming out of, you know, Jim Crow and people, uh, y- y- you know, people going down south and getting lynched, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
... in Meridian, Mississippi. And y- y- y- you know, I just... And then these assassinations. I just can't imagine what that must... Like a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJon Bernthal
... string of assassinations.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
And y- and just g- given the conversation, you know, if you're talking about the most fucked up time when you think everything is going to complete shit and it's just hari-kari. I'm like what would... I mean, imagine if right now, you know, in the, in, in the string of next week, like, Kanye was assassinated-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJon Bernthal
... Trump was assassinated. You know, like...
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right.
- JBJon Bernthal
I mean, I guess we had the thing at Pelosi's house. I mean, I guess that's, like, kinda weird, but, like, it's also kinda like-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's just weird.
- JBJon Bernthal
It's just weird, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
And, but like, imagine that. Like, imagine what, what we'd all be sa... I mean, it's like, uh, eh. You know, I think w- in the last couple years we really saw what it, how close, how fragile this whole thing is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
... and how close this thing c- can go to just breaking down, and you're kinda on your own. But I just, you know, to have like both-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you got a good point.
- JBJon Bernthal
... both Kennedys?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, like-
- JBJon Bernthal
Like, what did that feel like?
- JRJoe Rogan
... John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X.
- JBJon Bernthal
Malcolm X.
- JRJoe Rogan
All these murders, all these assassinations, very close to each other.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Mm-hmm. …
- JBJon Bernthal
where, um, like so many, I was, I was so, uh, disgusted and heartbroken and- and- and angry, uh, watching that video and- and- and- and Eric Garner and... I mean, all- all of them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
But- but George Floyd and- and I really, really wanted to get out there and- and- and be part of that, um... Be part of that protest and be part of that uprising. Um, but at the same time, I turned on the TV, and I saw people throwing bottles at police officers. I thought I saw people throwing bricks at police officers. And to me, every single one of those police officers is a brother, a sister, a son, a daughter, someone's, someone's best friend. Um, and, uh, I was disgusted by that. And- and I really... You know, I'm- I'm, I'm- I'm very grateful for kind of how I grew up and where I grew up. I grew up in- in- in Washington. Um, I, uh, I- I have, um, you know, I- I have Black folks in my family. I grew up, uh, extraordinarily, uh, y- you know, with- with familial and- and- and best friends and- and ties, uh, very much in- into the Black community. And I'm very much, I think, aware of, um, the struggles that- that Black folk have been in through this city, and- and especially their struggles with police. I myself have- have been beaten by the police, uh, um, but I've also had my- my- my life saved by the police. And I- I also believe that, um, so many of the folks that were sort of leading the charge in this anti-police movement and also so many folks that were leading the charge in this anti-Black Lives Matter movement, um, they are folks who really had no experience, uh, y- y- you know, really in it. It was just people kind of like arguing from the polls, flag waving from the polls.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
Uh, and I- I was seeing something, um, kind of in America generally where I- where strength and- and patriotism was being confused with- with- with- with being rigid or being steadfast in your views and completely unbending-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
... and an unwillingness to sit down with somebody that thinks differently than you and- and- and to be confident in yourself enough to- to- to- to say, "Hey, you're an American. I'm an American, and like I might learn something from you. I- I- I don't have all of the answers." And I- I think at that time, the genesis of- of, you know... I mean, you know, why the pod- podcast started is I- I looked at, okay, well, you know, on one side, you've got, you know, in this anti-police mo- movement, who is the most... You know, who's the archetype that- that everyone is- is sort of most afraid of in- in- in that? And to me, it's the plainclothes unit, a- aggressive, take the fight to the criminal police officer, right? And then on the other side, who's the archetype? Who are we all afraid of? Okay, well, maybe it's the African American gang member. And, you know, to me, I looked at my life and- and one of the things I'm most grateful for is I have really, really, really dear genuine close friends who fit both of those bills.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
And- and it's my assumption because they are actually in it...... pitted against each other at times, but they are on the same streets dealing with each others. There's so many times that they have opportunities to see good in each other, to, to, to find things that they respect about each other. I find when I, when I, you know, spend times when I go o- ride along and I, I, I, I, I spend time with plainclothes police units, they'll look at their own groups and they'll, they'll say who's really about it and who's not.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
They, they, they find flaws within their own community. With a lot of the guys who, who have been really successful in the criminal world, it's the same. And they're, they're able to reach across this sort of so-called aisle and they're, they're able to say, "Hey, there's something about that guy I really respect. I really dig what he did. I really dig what that person did." And, and, and I found that they kind of appreciate the same things, they laugh at the same things. They, they, th- they're a lot closer than they are further apart. And I just thought that these were really the people that, that, that I wanna listen to. I wanna, I, I wanna, I wanna listen to the people who are actually in it and, and, and who, who, who, who walk the talk, uh, walk the walk, don't just talk about it. And, um, that's really where, um, you know, the idea for the show started. And, s- sorry it's such a long-winded answer, but I, I, I, I, I would also just say about it, man, y- the trepidation I have in doing the show, uh, is quelled a bit b- because I just really, really believe in the folks that come on. It, it, this show is not about me. You know, I'm n- I'm not, I, I, I don't think I, I don't think I'm particularly g- good at it. I don't think (laughs) I'm particularly, uh, that interesting of a guy to, to, to, to be leading these conversations. What I think I, I, I have is this unbelievable group of, of, of friends, uh, both because of how I grew up and because of what I do for a living, that people talk to me. And, and, and, and, um, and I've become really, really close with them. And, you know, asking somebody to come on and talk about these things is, it, it's, it's not easy, you know? It, it comes at a cost. Um, but I'm really grateful for it and, and, and, uh, I, I, I, giving these folks a platform, these are precisely the people that I want my kids listening to, and, and, and the two sort of things in my life that are most important, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's my work and it's my family. So, you know, at s- at times those are opposed to each other, but ultimately I really believe in it.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did this stew in your mind before you ultimately decided to do something?
- JBJon Bernthal
Um, it, it, it stewed in m- it stewed in my mind (laughs) for a while.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJon Bernthal
And, and, you know, we started doing them and, uh, y- you know, it sort of fits and starts-
- JRJoe Rogan
So what was the first one?
- JBJon Bernthal
So the f- the first one that we did was exactly what I'm talking about. We, we, we did it with, um, my friend Jerry Ballesteros who's, uh, you know, he's a crash unit cop, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
So how does this conversation start, and, like, how do you decide to start doing this? Like, what, how do you l- you know, how do you say, "You know what? I am gonna sit down with people." Like, were, were you just like, "I don't feel like their side's being represented." "I don't f- I, I feel like I have something to add to this." Or, "I feel like I have a unique position-"
- JBJon Bernthal
Not me.
- JRJoe Rogan
... "where I can kind of bring people together."
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah, not me. Uh, th- them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah. I, I, I guess there's that. And, and, um, you know, I, I, I had, uh, I have friends who, um, y- you know, especially if you, if you, if you look at South Central specifically, um, you know, Newton Division in, in, in South Central, um, it's, uh, historically one of the most violent, uh, uh, you know, they call it Shoot Newton, one of the, one of the most violent, uh, uh, precincts in, in, in the entire city. Um, I was enormously close with, uh, some of the guys in that precinct, and Jerry Ballesteros is sort of this, this legendary cop there. Um, he's lost people, uh, on the street, and, and, um, he's, uh, he- he's, he's gone all the way. And, and, um, he's a guy that's respected. Uh, I, I believe in his reasons for putting people's heads down with-
- JRJoe Rogan
Was he the first guy you sat down with?
- JBJon Bernthal
So he's the first guy I sat down with, but I sat down with him and I sat down with, um, a guy named Donte Johnson. Uh, people call him Bojangles on the street. Um, he grew up in the Pueblo Bishop Housing Projects. The, the Pueblo Bishop Housing Projects and Newton Division are, y- you know, right next to each other. They've been sort of set against each other forever. Um, you know, uh, people call him Bojangles, like I said. Um, he's a community activist. He's, uh, somebody who's given so much back to the community of the Pueblos. But, um, he was also, he, he, he, he was, um, you know, part of the Pueblo, and still is part of the Pueblo Bishop Bloods. And, um, you know, these guys knew each other. They knew of each other. They'd come into contact with each other in the street. And, you know, at first, you know, getting them together was, it was difficult. It was hard. And, and, and, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a big first step.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you're gonna get into podcasting. This is like, it's a very big undertaking.
- JBJon Bernthal
A- a- yeah, but again, man, uh, it's, uh, I don't know. Uh, um...
- JRJoe Rogan
You just felt compelled?
- 30:00 – 45:00
Mm. …
- JBJon Bernthal
I, I had decided this is really what I wanted to do, and I really wanted to be an actor, but I had no kind of frame of reference. I didn't think it was any different than being a plumber or being a lawyer or being a cop. Like, what are the steps I have to do? This is what I want to do for a living.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JBJon Bernthal
She sort of explained, "Well, it doesn't really quite work that way." But, you know, she said that, look, if, if, if, if she were I, you know, she, she thought that the best theater school in the world was, was the Moscow Art Theater in, in Russia. And she said, "You know, I can get you an audition for that school."
- JRJoe Rogan
The best theater in the world is in Russia?
- JBJon Bernthal
According to her. And, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJon Bernthal
... and, and I, I, I certainly believe that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJon Bernthal
I mean, if you, if you look at it, I mean, kinda historically, you, you know, all of acting that, that, that we...... y- you know, that we celebrate is, is, you know, was, was really, like, the kernel of that all started at that theater, at the Moscow Art Theater.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJon Bernthal
Stanislavski and Chekhov, yeah. Yeah, the, the first play they did was The Seagull, and, uh, y- they, um, they, they, they, they put that play together in a summer home outside Moscow, and then they came into the city and they put it on. And up until that point, um...
- JRJoe Rogan
What year was this?
- JBJon Bernthal
This ni- th- this was in the 1920s. So basically all theater, all acting up until that point was very presentational. It was very go to the front of the stage and kind of proclaim to the audience, you know, face outward. And, uh, what they, what Stanislavski came up with, what you, w- what you hear and, and his method, whi- which is not y- you know, like, uh, sitting in your own shit or having people call you your character name. That, that, that is not, you know, method acting. This method that, that, that he came up with was really about, uh, realism on stage. So if you're drinking tea in a scene, really drink tea. Turn your back to the audience. Talk as if you're actually in the situation. And in 1933, they went on a world tour with this play, The Seagull. Uh, they went through Europe and then they went to America. They went to, uh, San Francisco, to Chicago, and to New York. And that changed acting. All of the sort of great American theater training, you know, from the group theater with Strasberg and Uta Hagen, it all came out of their exposure to this one play. Nobody had ever seen acting like that, and it all started at this school.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did they figure that out? Like, what-
- JBJon Bernthal
How did who figure that out?
- JRJoe Rogan
Ha- th- the Russians. What, th- what was the genesis of that?
- JBJon Bernthal
Uh, you know, I, I, I, I think it was y- you know, it was this unbelievable con- uh, conglomeration of a rejection of, of, of how theater was before that. But also, y- you know, like so many things, it, it, it takes this sort of perfect storm of people coming together. You had Chekhov, um, who, you, you know, look, in the, in the Eastern European world, and, uh, you know, Chekhov to, to, to, to Russia is very much what Shakespeare is to us. You have this guy who is writing in this unbelievably realistic way, who, you know, examined human behavior. He was a doctor, and he, he, he really looked at it, um, he really looked at life, uh, sort of in this sort of like omnipotent or omnipresent way, like he was looking down on it. For example, um, y- you would have somebody who was, uh, you, you have a love story. Th- The Seagull, there's always some confusion because it's called a comedy, but it's really ultimately the, the, the lead character takes his own life, kills himself at the end, and it's very tragic. But from a doctor, there was something really funny about all these people who are in love with the wrong person. "I'm spending my life wanting to love this person. I want this so bad." Yeah, but right next to you is a person who really loves you and you're ignoring that. And just sort of the, the feebleness and the fragility of, of, of human behavior and really examining it. Um, these small characters, giving them real emotional life on stage, you know, that's, that's... S- s- so you, you had this in the writing, and then you had this brilliant actor, director, Stanislavski, who just thought, you know, "What if we actually play this for real?" And it was a completely revolutionary thing. It changed, changed everything. It ch- it's, it's the style of, of, of film acting and theater acting that, that has literally taken over everything today.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's fascinating. I would have never known that. And so you go over there. And what is it like to go over to Russia? Did you understand and speak Russian? Did you have to learn that? Did they speak English?
- JBJon Bernthal
Um, y- s- so I was over there in the late 90s. Uh, it was a totally wild time to be there. And I think looking back at, you know, maybe why Alma wanted me to be there, uh, was, you know, probably because I was such a wild kid and I was so lost and doing so much kind of fucked up stuff that I think she-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you just pack up your shit.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah, man. And back then, you know, no, no email, no, you know, no phone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJon Bernthal
You know, you, you go over there and it's like, you know, you don't talk to anybody. You, you don't talk to anybody from your life here. And I think very much, I think she knew I needed to get out of here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bernthal
And, uh, so I think that was part of it for her. But, you know, Russia, uh, y- you know, I, I can't... I mean the, the way I would describe it is, um, unbelievable beauty with, with unbelievable brutality. Um, for me, there's no way I, I would be doing what I do today if it wasn't for my time spent there. Um, you had this unbelievable appreciation, uh, for the arts on, uh, every corner. There's a statue of a playwright or a poet or an actor. You know, being an actor was an enormously masculine thing to do. Um, it was, um... The, the, the training itself was, was highly rigorous, you know, from playing college sports and, you know, doing fight training. It was by far without a doubt the most, uh, disciplined and, and, and physically strenuous, uh, work that I've ever done in my life.
- JRJoe Rogan
How so?
- JBJon Bernthal
So basically the way that the school works is, you know, you have thousands of kids that audition. And then, um, every s- they take 100, and then every semester they'll cut that class in half. So you're, you're kind of fighting for your life the whole time you're there. And they'll graduate 10 kids. And these kids are coming-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JBJon Bernthal
... from all over the country. And it's really kind of like if you get into that school, it's kind of like this golden ticket. It's kind of like y- y- you know, there's, there's... At the time, there's 10 times more theaters in Moscow than there were in New York. Theater is religion there. And I, I'd... I'll, I'll definitely explain to you sort of why that is, especially coming out of communism-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Oh, geez. …
- JBJon Bernthal
with, with beautiful red hair. And they ... she's in like a, like, beautiful cocktail dress, and they're pulling her out of the backseat of this, uh, Mercedes. And, uh, I'm the only one on the street, and they clearly don't see me, but this woman sees me. She makes, like, direct eye contact with me. And they're pulling her out of the side, uh, they're pulling her out of the backseat, and she's not fighting them, but she's not helping them either. She's just, like, completely limp and just being dragged. And they take her over to this building, and they just start, like, opening her head up against the side of this building. They just started smashing her head. So, I, like, forgot where I was, and, like, I ran at this guy, and I grabbed him, and I, in English, I'm like, "Man, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing?" And he just pulled out a gun and he just put it, like, right to my forehead, and he said in English, he's like, "Go away," like that. And, and, and, y- y- y- you know, Joe, I knew, like, in an instant, man. I, I knew in an instant that, like, the, it w- it was like I was a bug. Like I was a bug. Like, that was a different ... uh, you know, I'd met ... I'd seen guns before. I'd seen stuff before. I, I just knew that this was a completely different level. And so, you know, I walked away listening to that, listening to what they were doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, geez.
- JBJon Bernthal
And, and, you know, it was, like, day three. So, that's on the brutality (laughs) side of it, but I think conversely, on the, on, on, on the beauty side of it, you know, there was just ... it was, uh, it was, it was a culture that I found, like, completely full- f- free of pretension, you know. If you have a conversation with somebody, you really have a conver- conversation. You look ya in the eye and there's no, "Hey, how you doing?" "Hey, I'm doing great." There's no bullshit. Um, it wouldn't be strange or weird for ... to have somebody break down in tears in your first meeting talking to them, and not because they're sort of, like, emotionally fragile or weak, but because they're just so honest and in the moment. Um, I, I, I, I, I saw this unbelievable national appreciation for the arts. Uh, I, I, I saw people who, uh ... y- y- you know, you go on the subways and, and, and people weren't reading, you know, Us Weekly. They were reading Bulgakov and Tolstoy. It's an unbelievable, unbelievably literate, uh, soc- society. Um, yeah, I don't know, man. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm so grateful for my time there, and, um, it ... yeah, it, it really, you know, Alma and, and that place really, really saved my life.
- JRJoe Rogan
How bizarre is it for you now to see this conflict that we're going through with Russia and Ukraine and United States involvement, and it ... having spent time there?
- JBJon Bernthal
Um, bizarre is it? You know, I ... I ... uh, y- you know, I ... I don't ... I, I feel horrible. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm devastated for, uh, you know, my friends there. I'm devastated for, for, um ... it's, it's such a different, it's such a different Moscow. It's such a different Russia than, than, than what I knew, you know. There was, there was f- a free press there when I, when I was there. It was, it was like ... you know, it felt ... it was the Wild West, man. It was, it was ... everybody was exploding, you know, and this, this, this new freedom. And, um, it, it, it was, uh, such an optimistic ... uh, you could feel the fragility, um, but there was also, man ... you know, if, if, if, if, if somebody ... if, if you bump somebody's foot by accident standing on a sidewalk, they, they have to step on your foot. That's like a Russian tradition. So, if, like, you bump into somebody, they, they, they have to bump into you back. Um, if, if there's, uh, a line, you know, a lot of people just didn't believe in lines. So, like, somebody will just cut right in front of you.You know, I remember when there was the, um, the situation at the Russian theater. There was a hostage s- situation, um, where they just kind of went in, and those people were being held hostage. So, they put it in gas, and they just kind of killed everybody. Um, I think there's something about... You know, I had a friend who was in the FSB, a young- a young guy, and- and if there was an issue with the police, if we were being loud or somebody was trying to shake us down, you know, I had this 21-year-old friend who was in the FSB. And this 21-year-old kid, you know, could- could yield such unbelievable power just by fl- like, put- put the fear of God in- in soldiers with guns like that. And- and that's something I- I don't, I don't know that we have an equivalent of that. I saw that there was, um... I remember them talking about Putin and- and- and with George Bush at the time. I remem- remember there was that thing like, "You know, I looked into his soul, and he's like a- a great man, and we really connected." There- th- there was, there- th- there was this thing that there was an understanding among Moscovites that he would just toy with this guy, and things like deception and things like manipulation were things that were celebrated in- in a lea- in a leader. They- they- they weren't... You know, we do the same shit, but we- we're not allowed to talk about it. We're not allowed to celebrate it. It's un-American. But- but that- that style of being- being, um, ruling with an iron fist, uh, you know, you- you, it was- it was still, that was still very celebrated and- and- and many Russians, I- I think, really ascribed to that. So- so, uh, I- I guess I'm heartbroken, you know? I'm heartbroken. Uh, and- and, uh, I'm heartbroken for all the people that, you know, all the- all- all the young men that- that- that have fled and left and the families that are being torn apart. I'm heartbroken, uh, for what's going on in Ukraine, um, but- but I guess I'm not, I'm not that surprised, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. The- the strong leader, that- that is such a- a big part of Russia.
- JBJon Bernthal
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And to have this, uh, powerful leader who leads with an iron fist, that seems to be something that they embrace. It's a part of the culture.
- JBJon Bernthal
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a part of the history of that part of the world.
- JBJon Bernthal
Ab- absolutely. And making hard decisions and- and- and understanding that things, you know, aren't clean. I mean, look at... Y- y- y-, you know, I think many Russians would- would look at, you know, you know, World War II and the way that they handled that war and the way that they approached that war militarily, you- you know, was, uh, (laughs) you know... I- I don't, I don't know how... It- it's interesting. I don't know if that would fly here, but- but- but-
- JRJoe Rogan
But what, look at what they're doing to Ukraine when they have these mobile crematoriums, and they're just taking the Russian soldiers that die and just...
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah. But, I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
And they don't even have a count of the bodies. There- there's not even an accurate count of casualties.
- JBJon Bernthal
And- and- and- and look, I- I... (laughs) You know, I think, you- you know, one gun for every five guys in World War II.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
You know, pick up, you know, when that guy dies, pick up the gun. Um, you know, I- I... But look, you know, you- you- you look at the- the- the way Patton approached, uh, you know, the armor, the- the- the- the armor units in- in- in World War II, you know? Our- our tanks, you- you know, couldn't- couldn't compete with the Germans' tanks. They just couldn't compete. They looked at those tanks. They said, "There's just no way that a, that a Sherman can compete with a Tiger. It's just not gonna happen. Well, I know what we'll do. We'll build five times as many." So yes, that's an un- unbelievable, uh, achievement of a- American industry, an unbelievable achievement of- of- of the war effort back home, an unbelievable achievement of the engineers that were on the front line fixing those tanks. But the, you know, what's- what's the other side of that? It takes five Sherman tanks to take down one Tiger tank, so we're just gonna produce five times as many. But think about all those tank units. What do- what does that mean for the men in- in- inside those tanks? You know, what- what does that mean, you know? That means we have to put in five times as many people, and that when they go, we got to get a new unit out there, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs)
- JBJon Bernthal
And that's... It's- it's- it's very similar, you know? It's just-
- JRJoe Rogan
A totally different mentality than what we're accustomed to.
- JBJon Bernthal
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the way we think of war and we thi- we- we think of sacrifice and casualties.
- JBJon Bernthal
I think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, they just seems to, it seems to be a part of the culture, and it seems to be something they don't, they don't have a problem with.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah, I mean... You know, whether they have a problem with it or not, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's probably not the right question.
- JBJon Bernthal
Probably, yeah, yeah, right? I mean, like, I don't know, you know. It's, you- you- you know, I've had one, uh, friend of mine, I ca- I can't use his name, but I've- I've had him on the podcast a couple of times, you know, from- from Russia, and he's- he's Ukrainian, and his family's in Ukraine sort of just telling us what's going on on the ground and what the sentiment, uh, uh, is in- in- in Russia at the time. And, um... You know, I think for- for a lot of people there who- who- who are, who are able to sort of, like, ignore the propaganda and look beyond it and- and- and try to get to the truth, it's... I mean, he- he looks very much at his own culture and his own government as- as a cancer, and he- he- he looks at- at- at Putin as an absolute criminal. And, you know, he's- he's saying that, you know? He's- he's- he's risking his life by saying that, um, and how- how- how Putin deals with his political foes. And, um, and- and, you know, it's... I mean, even as I say this to you, man, it's- it's, uh... You know, my- my- my gratitude, you know, to- to that place and to that culture, it's... Man, it's- it's limitless to me, you know? It's like they... Again, I- I, you know, I- I'm able to-... do, do what I love and, and, uh, a- and, and feed my kids and, and, and, and, and, and have a family and, and I- I'm so grateful for it, and it wouldn't have happened if it, if it wasn't for there. And, and I'm just, uh, I, I just, I, I don't know how this is gonna end. I don't know how it ends.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
I don't know how it works itself out, you know? And, um, I hate, you know, I, I hate that.
- JRJoe Rogan
How do they get objective information over there? How do they get past propaganda?
- 1:00:00 – 1:12:32
Wow. …
- JRJoe Rogan
just totally gets lucky-
- JBJon Bernthal
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and finds himself in this situation where Grigory and the Soviet Union, or excuse me, Russia is getting exposed for doping, and he has to flee the country because he's a part of it. So he comes to America and just completely spills the beans, tells them exactly how they did it, what they did, and now to this day, he's in witness protection and they're hiding him and there's assassination attempts on him. He's, he's completely fucked. And they've, you know, taken his family and taken all their money and pulled them out of their homes. And it's, it's a wild, chaotic thing, but it shows...... what kind of commitment they have to this idea of Russian, uh, exceptionalism and, and Russian conquering in, in sport.
- JBJon Bernthal
And how far they'll take it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JBJon Bernthal
... if you reveal any, if you go against them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- JBJon Bernthal
You know, I m- look, m- y- y- you know, I was in a, I was in a car the other day when I, when I, when w- when I landed here yesterday from Savannah and, and the guy was just ... we were just talking about Austin, we were talking about Texas. And, and he was just ... the guy was from El Salvador, and he was just like, "You know, it's just like people, people in this country just don't (laughs) appreciate anything." Just have no idea it's the greatest country on Earth, and, like, they just have no idea. And, and that really, that really also was and, and is my big takeaway from spending time over there. Uh, y- y- you know, just how unbelievably lucky we are here. And, and, and I know, I mean, we started the conversation from out there about just how fucked up everything is, and of course it is. But, like, look, man, I'm like a guy who fucking puts on makeup and says lines for a living, and I can get ... come on here, you know, the biggest platform in the world, and we can talk about it. And I ... and, and, you know, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. (laughs)
- JBJon Bernthal
... the, the, the biggest threat, y- you know, to me is that, like, I'm gonna lose an acting role. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- JBJon Bernthal
It's like, you know, it ... that's, that's a real thing, man. And, and I just think y- y- you know, this country is just, uh ... I, I, I just think so many people in this country have no idea how good they have it and how, h- how great, uh, it ... you know, to me, it's the best country on Earth.
- JRJoe Rogan
It certainly is, and it's just we don't have a reference.
- JBJon Bernthal
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you're here your entire life and this is how you view things, and you're like, "Well, this place is fucked up-"
- JBJon Bernthal
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and it certainly is.
- JBJon Bernthal
Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
It certainly ... I mean, we're human.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Humans, we're filled with all sorts of flaws, and this culture and this ... the way our civilization is run, it's filled with all sorts of flaws. But it's the best example we have for a free society-
- JBJon Bernthal
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... currently on Earth, which is hard for people to believe.
- JBJon Bernthal
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially people that look at all the inequality and look at all the chaos and look at all the, all the things that are wrong with this country-
- JBJon Bernthal
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and there's certainly a lot.
- JBJon Bernthal
Absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's still the best place.
- JBJon Bernthal
Agreed.
Episode duration: 2:39:43
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