Joe Rogan Experience #1977 - Dave Smith

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drum music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) Let's fucking go. Oh, we're live.

Dave Smith 0:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:17 Hello, Dave Smith.

Dave Smith 0:19 Hello, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:20 Good to see you, my brother.

Dave Smith 0:21 Yeah, it's great to be back.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Fun times last night.

Dave Smith 0:23 Unbelievable, man.

Joe Rogan 0:24 Yeah, that was your first, uh, voyage aboard the mothership.

Dave Smith 0:28 Yes, it sure was.

Joe Rogan 0:29 (laughs)

Dave Smith 0:29 If you're gonna get abducted by aliens at a comedy club, it's the one to, to be at.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Yeah, imagine? Imagine if they showed up there?

Dave Smith 0:37 I imagine if they were gonna pick a comedy club to start abducting people-

Joe Rogan 0:40 (laughs)

Dave Smith 0:41 ... it would be yours.

Joe Rogan 0:42 Well, they would know that we, we'd be open.

Dave Smith 0:44 (laughs) That's, that's true.

Joe Rogan 0:45 You know, Joe Probst would probably, like, charge them. (laughs)

Dave Smith 0:50 (laughs) Whereas you would gre- you would welcome them in.

Joe Rogan 0:52 Yeah, I'd put them on the guest list.

Dave Smith 0:53 It is. I know, I just, I feel like I'm just saying the same thing everyone does, but the club is really amazing, man. You did an incredible job.

Joe Rogan 0:59 It's pretty dope. Well, it wasn't me. I mean, it was sort of, but it was a lot of people, and, uh, a lot of it, R- Richard Weiss, the, uh, architect and designer. He's the fucking man. He did an incredible job. The whole thing's just very bizarre, you know?

Dave Smith 1:14 But-

Joe Rogan 1:14 If it wasn't mine, I'd really be able to appreciate it.

Dave Smith 1:17 Yeah, I'm sure (laughs) that's true.

Joe Rogan 1:18 (laughs)

Dave Smith 1:18 But it's cool to see something, you know, like, uh, there's something cool about having a concept in your head and then seeing it manifest into reality.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Yeah.

Dave Smith 1:25 'Cause I remember, you know, you talking about this over the last couple years, like, "We're gonna do this, and it's gonna be like this." And then, like, it's cool to see it materialize.

Joe Rogan 1:32 I've never done anything like this before, obviously. But I mean, to, to s- to have an idea and to just, like, go all in on this idea, and just really try to cut in zero corners and just do the best version of it. And there was a lot of delays because, you know, we said, "Okay, let's change this. Let's change that. Let's do this. Let's do that." And when I had an idea, you know, an idea to change things, it's just like, you have to kind of follow through with it. You just, y- you know, it's like you have one chance to do it right, and you don't want to go back and close for two weeks so you can-

Dave Smith 2:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11 ... do new construction and fix something. And so we just, you know, took a long-ass fucking time. You know? There's a lot of people saying, "When are you ever ... You're not opening or closing." Bullshit. It's all bullshit. They just didn't ... I knew once it got ... I'm like, "Talk all that shit, 'cause once this thing gets open, they're all gonna wanna come."

Dave Smith 2:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:32 And the, the, and the ones who can't (laughs) a lot of FOMO.

Dave Smith 2:35 Dude, I thought ... Uh, I re- (laughs) do you remember, this was like, uh, was it like a month ago or something like that? Uh, you texted me, or I texted you congratulating you that, uh, for the club opening. It was like right around when it opened. And, uh, you texted me back, uh, "I can wait for you to come see it." Which I think you meant to say, "I can't wait for you to come see it."

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah, I'm sure. (laughs)

Dave Smith 2:54 But I thought there was something so funny about just texting me, like I was, if that was your way of telling me, "You don't want me at the club."

Joe Rogan 2:59 (laughs)

Dave Smith 2:59 You were like, "I can, I can wait. I can wait for you to see it, actually."

Joe Rogan 3:03 Oh, that's hilarious. It's, it has been a problem though, 'cause there's p- you know, a lot of people want to come. And some of them are just, you know ... It's, people are weird, like, that, that want to headline and you know the, they know. Like, you know that you're not really a headliner.

Dave Smith 3:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:19 Like, what are you talking about?

Dave Smith 3:21 There's ... Now I'm in the position where I was talking to Adam about it 'cause I'm trying to find a, a, a, he's trying to find me a weekend, and then he was like ... I was like, "Oh, I'm free this weekend." And he's like, "You know I offered that to Schultz, but let me see." And then I have to be like, "You know, you don't wanna book Andrew Schultz, man. He harasses the staff and stuff."

Joe Rogan 3:36 (laughs)

Dave Smith 3:36 So, like, you know, I just have to lie about my friends. Be like, "He's actually gotten really into drugs, man. He's been assaulting people. You don't wanna have him here."

Joe Rogan 3:42 Yeah, he, like, loses it on stage.

Dave Smith 3:43 Yeah, it's really not cool.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Yells at people.

Dave Smith 3:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:46 It's weird when you hear stories like that, like someone, like, losing it, yelling at people and shit. I've heard, like, weird stories about people. You know?

Dave Smith 3:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:54 I think the pressure of standup, like the constant performance, it's like, it's like running an engine at very hot, at high RPMs for many, many miles. Like, things blow.

Dave Smith 4:04 And we're all kind of crazy people to begin with.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Yeah.

Dave Smith 4:06 So some people have that more on, in check than others. But yeah, I don't wanna name any names, but I've seen a f- I've seen a couple hot ones-

Joe Rogan 4:12 Yeah.

Dave Smith 4:13 ... through my day. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Yeah. Yeah. It's, they're the most fun people though.

Dave Smith 4:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:18 That fucking green room, like the hang in the green room, it's like one of the greatest things of all time.

Dave Smith 4:22 It's just excellent, man. It's, it's set up, like you can just tell it was designed by a comedian. You know what I mean? Or at least, like, there was a, that perspective was taken into account.

Joe Rogan 4:33 And tonight, uh, after the show, we'll go to the bar, because the bar becomes like a speakeasy at 11:00 PM. It's a private club from 11:00 PM on.

Dave Smith 4:41 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 4:41 So it's open to the public until 11:00, and then after the shows, the comics and the staff all come down and hang.

Dave Smith 4:47 I'm in.

Joe Rogan 4:48 It's the best, dude.

Dave Smith 4:49 Hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 We just, like, cre- created what I thought would be the perfect environment to develop comedy. So there's two nights of open mics, which I think is very important. And, uh, you know, Bill Burr and I were talking about this, uh, when he was in town, and he was like, "That's something that a lot of these clubs just forgot. They just wanna fill the place every night and make a lot of money." But you gotta have a farm team. You gotta have guys coming up. You gotta have, you know, places where women can go on stage, where men can go on stage, where anybody can go on stage, where you can just fucking ... Just, you don't have to have any experience. You don't have to have nothing. You just have to have a dream and some ideas and a sense that you think you could be funny, and you can get up.

Dave Smith 5:31 Yeah, and when, you know, one of the things that's cool about it, and I think a lot of this is, like, because it's your club, that there's just, um, there's this kind of like a, uh, there's just this thing in you where you're like, you can be fearless here.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Yeah.

Dave Smith 5:44 You know this is like, uh, to borrow a phra- like a safe space-

Joe Rogan 5:47 Yeah.

Dave Smith 5:47 ... to be a comedian.

Joe Rogan 5:48 Yeah.

Dave Smith 5:48 Like, go for it. And it's almost because it's, because it's your club and, you know, the crowd knows that, they know that, like, they're coming for comedy here.

Joe Rogan 5:56 Yeah.

Dave Smith 5:56 And it's just great 'cause that's one of the things that's, uh, especially in cities across America now, like in terms of like regular showcase clubs. It's different when you go out and, like, headline 'cause that's kind of like your crowd coming.

Joe Rogan 6:07 Right.

Dave Smith 6:07 But just random, like, spots and stuff, that's a lot of comics that's kind of in the back of their mind. Like, "Oh man, is there gonna be someone here who's looking to get offended at something I'm saying?"

Joe Rogan 6:16 Yeah.

Dave Smith 6:16 And that's, that, that's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 6:18 There are, there are, I've seen it.... -ed. I've seen it at clubs. It's fucking bizarre, where someone will start a premise and then someone will yell out, "Bullshit! Fuck that!"

Dave Smith 6:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:29 Like, they'll, they'll yell out, like, to, like, virtue. They're like, "I have my flag of virtue. I will hold it up in this, this crowd of people that are trying to enjoy something that's obviously not real."

Dave Smith 6:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:40 It's called standup comedy. You know what it is.

Dave Smith 6:43 Yeah. (laughs) I, I remember I, I had a bit about this on, I, uh... In my hour, uh, that I put out in 2017 and it was just, like, right when Donald Trump, you know, like, first came into office. But I remember, like, working out stuff at s- clubs in New York City and if you started a premise about Donald Trump, you could feel the tension in the room where people are being like, "You better not like him."

Joe Rogan 7:05 (sighs) Yeah.

Dave Smith 7:05 "Like, you better get to the point where you're against him."

Joe Rogan 7:07 Ugh.

Dave Smith 7:07 "Like, are you on my t- Are you not... You're not on my team yet."

Joe Rogan 7:09 (laughs)

Dave Smith 7:09 Or you could, like, feel it in the, you know...

Joe Rogan 7:12 Especially New York.

Dave Smith 7:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:13 Dude, I was there when he got elected and, um, me and my friend, Cam Hanes... Were you there, Jamie? We were walking down the street, and Jamie too. We were walking down the street (laughs) and there was an anti-Trump protest. And I was watching this guy and this guy, this fucking stereotypical, liberal, progressive white guy was walking down the street. And he was, he was chanting out, "Donald Trump, KKK, uh, racist, sexist, anti-gay. Donald Trump." And then he saw this Black couple walking towards him and he starts going, "Black lives matter! Black lives matter!" Just, like, on cue.

Dave Smith 7:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:57 He's like, he got up, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that part. Black lives matter." He just starts, and I'm like, "This is adorable. These people are adorable."

Dave Smith 8:04 It's, yeah, it is really... It's something bonk- He really... D- Donald Trump, um, he broke a lot of brains.

Joe Rogan 8:11 Yeah.

Dave Smith 8:11 I don't know. There's a, it's a really weird impact that he had on people, where he just got them so angry that they could no longer think straight. I remem- I was living in the Upper West Side of Manhattan at the time, um, when, when he first got elected and I remember seeing, like, some of those, like, protests. I remember (laughs) seeing, you know, like, I remember the, a couple with their little girl, like, maybe she was, like, 12 or something like that and she was holding up a "Worst President Ever" sign.

Joe Rogan 8:36 (laughs)

Dave Smith 8:36 And you're like, okay, first off, he's had the job for two months.

Joe Rogan 8:39 (laughs)

Dave Smith 8:39 Uh, second off, this is very disrespectful to all of the horrible presidents before him. Like, L- LBJ slaughtered, like, two million Vietnamese. He doesn't even get, like, a shot at contention here?

Joe Rogan 8:48 Right, right.

Dave Smith 8:48 You're already giving it to Trump?

Joe Rogan 8:49 Right.

Dave Smith 8:49 Like, give him time. He'll do some bad things-

Joe Rogan 8:51 He was probably involved in the Kennedy-

Dave Smith 8:53 ... but-

Joe Rogan 8:53 ... assassination as well.

Dave Smith 8:55 sigh ] Almost certainly.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Yeah, probably.

Dave Smith 8:57 But you don't wanna talk about that.

Joe Rogan 8:58 Seems, seems like he didn't like JFK. It seems like maybe he liked the CIA. (laughs)

Dave Smith 9:02 It seem, seems that way, but you don't wanna talk about it too much, Joe. You could lose your Fox News gig that way.

Joe Rogan 9:07 Ah! You know what I love about LBJ? He used to take a shit with the reporters, like, standing there-

Dave Smith 9:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:12 ... with the stall opened.

Dave Smith 9:13 (laughs) Yeah, he was a wild dude.

Joe Rogan 9:15 "Just, just take a shit. Come on, come on, let's talk." He would just sit there and fucking (grunting noise) grunt one out while-

Dave Smith 9:21 It's the, it's the strangest, but yet most alpha thing to possibly do.

Joe Rogan 9:24 Yeah.

Dave Smith 9:24 To just comfortably shit-

Joe Rogan 9:25 Come watch me shit.

Dave Smith 9:26 ... while you, while, while you talk to someone about Cambodia.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Yeah. But yeah, that's a wild move, watching people shit. (laughs)

Dave Smith 9:33 (laughs) It's a wild move watching pe- it's, it's more wild to just have the confidence to just shit in front of people.

Joe Rogan 9:39 He's like, "I'm the fucking president."

Dave Smith 9:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:41 Yeah, he's just... I guess.

Dave Smith 9:44 Yeah, he was a bad guy.

Joe Rogan 9:44 Would never have been elected. Would've never been elected. Well, you can't say never 'cause if Biden was running against him, he probably would've been elected.

Dave Smith 9:51 Yeah, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 9:52 This-

Dave Smith 9:52 Oh, B- Biden was only 50 at the time.

Joe Rogan 9:54 The fact that he's running again is so wild. When you watch him talk, the fact that there's no leadership that can find a solution to this, 'cause there really is no solution. I mean, we've bantered about it, you and I, and a lot of other people have as well. Like, what are they gonna do? Like, what is, what is the- uh, other than Biden dying, like, very soon and then someone stepping up in a big way that makes sense.

Dave Smith 10:21 Which is not, which is not beyond the realm of possibility. He's older than the average life expectancy, I believe, already.

Joe Rogan 10:27 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 10:27 Not saying he will die, but that, that is possible. Um, I'm sure there are a lot of people, like, in the Democratic establishment who have been... Like, I, I could just imagine there's a boardroom with, like, very powerful people meeting where they're like, "Okay, we're getting him out. What's the plan?" Like, "How do we do this?" And I think they just cannot come up with one. I, I think-

Joe Rogan 10:48 I can't come up with one.

Dave Smith 10:49 Well, the-

Joe Rogan 10:49 I mean, I'm not a political strategist, but, uh, you know, I know the landscape.

Dave Smith 10:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:54 I know who's out there.

Dave Smith 10:55 He's perhaps brilliantly insulated himself by making Kamala Harris his vice president.

Joe Rogan 11:01 It's not a bad move.

Dave Smith 11:02 Because they're like, they're like, "Well, we can't have her." So-

Joe Rogan 11:04 It's like with Dan Quayle, with Bush.

Dave Smith 11:06 "What do you want?"

Joe Rogan 11:07 "Yeah, you think Bush is dumb?"

Dave Smith 11:08 "You want this guy?"

Joe Rogan 11:08 "Look at this fucking guy."

Dave Smith 11:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:10 Yeah, it's amazing. It's a good move. I mean, it's kind, it's kind of a bitch move though. You know what it's kinda like? It's kinda like those, uh, headliner comics who bring terrible openers?

Dave Smith 11:20 (laughs) Yeah, that's the... (laughs) That's what it is.

Joe Rogan 11:22 You know? It's like-

Dave Smith 11:23 It's like, yeah, you really wanna do an hour after Kamala Harris?

Joe Rogan 11:26 Hey. (laughs)

Dave Smith 11:26 Like, all right. The crowd's dead, but all right.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Time is like time. It just passes and, but time is something that we're all aware of.

Dave Smith 11:36 Dude, but I gotta say.

Joe Rogan 11:37 (laughs)

Dave Smith 11:37 I don't understand the joke 'cause, uh, sometimes you'll see it and you're like, all right, you're doing a thing here. Like, this isn't real. You're, like, is this... Are you, like... Is this a strategy of some sort to just say nothing and, like, sound as dumb as possible? 'Cause you can't be this dumb.

Joe Rogan 11:50 I think it's panic. I think it's-

Dave Smith 11:51 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 11:51 I think it's anxiety and I think it's panic and I think no one can understand, even you and I who perform "live" in front of strangers all the time. We would never be able to understand the kind of pressure that must be on a person who's deeply unqualified for the job and then all of a sudden finds their self in there through, you know. Some- I mean, he went out of his way to say that he was going to have a Black woman. Like, it was a thing that he wanted to do. It was like they had these, these diversity and-

Dave Smith 12:26 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:26 ... inclusivity checkpoints that they had to reach.

Dave Smith 12:29 Which is also just a really shitty thing to do to her.It's a, it's like a really profoundly selfish thing, if you think about it. Because if you wanted, say, you wanted to make Kamala Harris your vice president because, you know, she's a, you want a woman of color in there or whatever. The, the thing to do would be to say, "I'm gonna find the absolute best, most qualified person and then pick her."

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs)

Dave Smith 12:53 But if you do that, like, that would be more generous toward her, 'cause then it makes it look at least like she was the best person for the job.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Right.

Dave Smith 13:00 Whereas if you say, "I'm gonna make sure I pick a, a Black woman," now you get all the, the brownie points-

Joe Rogan 13:08 Right.

Dave Smith 13:08 ... for like, oh, how woke you are. But now you kind of undermine her as like, "Well, she's the best Black woman I could find."

Joe Rogan 13:14 That's, yeah. Interesting.

Dave Smith 13:14 Not necessarily the best candidate. You know. So it's, it's a shitty move.

Joe Rogan 13:18 But a lot of people think it's a good thing. That I've talked to a lot of intelligent people that think it's important for representation. And I'm like, I would s- I could see how you would say that in a lot of jobs, but this is probably the most important one that anyone could ever have, ever.

Dave Smith 13:34 So, see, I, what I-

Joe Rogan 13:35 You gotta be, it's gotta be a meritocracy.

Dave Smith 13:37 Well, what's, what's weird about it is it's almost as if there's some weird, uh, prejudice built into that idea. 'Cause if you, if you don't believe in, like, superiority or inferiority of, of different races or d- diff- different groups-

Joe Rogan 13:53 Or genders.

Dave Smith 13:54 Right. D- different genders. Then you would just go, "We'll make it a meritocracy-"

Joe Rogan 13:57 Yeah.

Dave Smith 13:57 "... and let the absolute best person have the job." And I'm confident in that system that lots of different people will be represented.

Joe Rogan 14:03 Right.

Dave Smith 14:03 Whereas if you're saying like, "Well, no, we need to make sure it's," th- like, wouldn't it be more ideal to just have the best person at every job?

Joe Rogan 14:11 Yeah.

Dave Smith 14:12 And that, than it, to have any type of forced diversity?

Joe Rogan 14:15 Right.

Dave Smith 14:15 Like, why, why would that not be be- we're ... Everyone in society is better off if the best person qualified for jobs gets those jobs.

Joe Rogan 14:23 Yes.

Dave Smith 14:23 You want the best scientists and the best doctors and the best pilots and the best ... You want everyone to be the best.

Joe Rogan 14:28 Yeah.

Dave Smith 14:29 No one ever want, you know ... No one ever wants, like, your surgeon to be picked based on anything other than the best at performing this surgery.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yes. Yeah. You, you d- you don't ever say, "I want a white man doing surgery on me."

Dave Smith 14:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:42 (laughs) Like, no. What do you think ... Who the fuck ... Is that Chinese lady the best?

Dave Smith 14:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:46 Bring her in.

Dave Smith 14:47 Like, do more people survive-

Joe Rogan 14:48 Yeah.

Dave Smith 14:48 ... when she does this?

Joe Rogan 14:48 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Dave Smith 14:49 Then I'd, I'd like her.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Who's the expert? Fix my brain. Yeah. It's, it's interesting because it's like, it's, um, very similar in some ways to affirmative action. Right? And affirmative action, in my, um, in my opinion is y- you're addressing a problem without addressing the root of the problem. The root of the problem is why are so many people of color disenfranchised? Why are so many people who grow up in neighborhoods where there's rampant crime and violence, and why haven't they fixed those fucking neighborhoods? They're dumping so much money into all these problems overseas. We have systemic problems in America that never get addressed.

Dave Smith 15:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:29 Until those ... And this is like generations it takes to fix these problems. Generat- it's like a long term strategy. But I've always said this, if you wanna make America the best, what would be the best way to do that? Well, you want less losers. Right? So what's the best way to have fewer losers? To give more people opportunities. So where, who are the people that have the least opportunities? The people who are in the most fucked places. Those are, you could fix that. There's ways you could, you could dump tons of money and resources into inner cities, into these problem areas, with law enforcement, with, with community centers. Places where people could go where they, they have, uh, like things to do and people can train them in, in, in whether it's athletics or a b- different jobs and different thing, and g- and show them and mentor them. That's all-

Dave Smith 16:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:22 That's not like prohibitively impossible. You're not saying like, they all deserve their own nuclear power plant. You're, you're-

Dave Smith 16:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:28 You know what I'm saying? It's like, what you're, what you're saying is ph- totally doable. And that's the way to fix all these problems of disparity, because people that grow up in wealthy communities where everyone is sort of trying to achieve things, there's a vibe of those places. And so many of those people from those places wind up succeeding.

Dave Smith 16:50 Yeah, I think it's, uh, a lot of it, I think, also is that there's a very kind of like shallow narrative about what it is that keeps people in these areas down.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 17:00 And so it's kind of like, you know, um, w- i- it's j- just all, well, it's racism or it's systemic racism, just these kind of terms that don't, aren't specific.

Joe Rogan 17:08 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 17:08 It's like wait, what, what is actually happening here?

Joe Rogan 17:11 Right.

Dave Smith 17:11 And so much of the problem is that like, like the kind of culture and family units have just been destroyed. Like, they've been decimated. And then it's like, you could, you can pump money into like the public schools there, which we do. We spend a lot of money on public schools, and they're still crappy schools and the, the results are still bad. And if you're not like, you know, even back in, um ... And there's a lot of like, um, uh, like Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell, who are both like two-

Joe Rogan 17:37 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 17:37 ... uh, Black conservative, really brilliant thinkers. They, they both wrote a lot about this, how like in the '40s, even d- during, there was, you know, segregation in the South, and there was like a whole bunch of horrible policies. But even back then, you know, um, you could walk around Harlem with no threat of like violence or anything like that, and family units were together. I believe the Black legitimacy rate was higher than the white legitimacy rate at the time. And there were a lot of policies that came in that really destroyed, like, the, the, the family unit. And-

Joe Rogan 18:08 Like what policies?

Dave Smith 18:09 Well-... the rise of the welfare state was a really big one. Uh, it kind of subsidized single parenthood, which is- it's- people respond to incentives, even though it seems like-

Joe Rogan 18:20 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 18:20 ... that's an ugly thing to think. But if you subsid- if you pay people for having children out of wedlock, you do get more of it than you otherwise would have. And the other major one to me was the, um, the war on drugs-

Joe Rogan 18:32 (coughs)

Dave Smith 18:32 ... which I just think was absolutely devastating to these, these neighborhoods. It's, you know, when just like with prohibition of alcohol, where we, I think was still the highest, uh, homicide rate in American history was u- under prohibition of alcohol. And, um, and then when, once they legalized alcohol again, it drastically reduced in the next few years. The same thing with the prohibition of drugs. You create these black markets. You create a lot of, like, violent crime.

Joe Rogan 18:54 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 18:55 And that's what's really destroying these, these neighborhoods, is like the violent gang culture. And it's all built and funded around drugs that would- the black markets for which would not exist if we just called the whole thing off.

Joe Rogan 19:06 It's just calling the whole thing off is so scary politically 'cause if you were a guy like, uh, Joe Biden that said, "I'm gonna legalize all drugs," you know, people would fucking turn on you. They'd freak the fuck out.

Dave Smith 19:17 Yeah. The- well- the- getting the political will up to do it is something. But I mean, you even see it, even with this, you know, we got like 100,000 ODs a year now. And so much of it is driven by the fact that people are getting fentanyl in shit-

Joe Rogan 19:28 Yes.

Dave Smith 19:28 ... that they don't even know it- that's not supposed to have fentanyl in it-

Joe Rogan 19:31 Yeah.

Dave Smith 19:31 ... 'cause it's in black markets. And Joe Biden is absolutely... I mean, it's hard to, like, hate him so much now 'cause he's so old and senile. It's hard to even hold him responsible. But his career, he was like probably the, the worst person on this issue. Joe Biden since the '80s was pushing ramp ups in the war on drugs. He, he challenged Ronald Reagan from the right, uh, partnered up with Strom Thurmond, uh, and was, was criticizing Reagan for being too soft on drugs. And then he was the one who authored, uh, the crime bill-

Joe Rogan 20:05 Yeah.

Dave Smith 20:05 ... that Bill Clinton signed into law.

Joe Rogan 20:06 Yeah.

Dave Smith 20:07 He's just, he's got a, he's got a lot of death and destruction on his old hands.

Joe Rogan 20:12 (smacks lips) Yeah, that crime bill. Oof. The whole just war on drugs thing is such a strange issue because logically everyone knows that when you legalize things, and certainly when you decriminalize things, you get a, a, a g- giant drop in violent crime. You get-

Dave Smith 20:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:30 ... a giant drop in addiction. It's, it's so counterintuitive, but people are so terrified because drugs have been so devastating. Like the i- 'cause I think that if we did legalize all drugs and it happened quickly, you're going to have more overdoses. You're going to have more deaths. You're going to have more addicts. You're just going to because there's gonna be more access.

Dave Smith 20:51 Yeah, but, you know, I don't-

Joe Rogan 20:52 But when do people-

Dave Smith 20:52 Well-

Joe Rogan 20:52 When does it balance out?

Dave Smith 20:53 Well, I don't know. I think th- there will be more access for sure. But I don't... I think so many of the overdoses now are because people become addicted to pain pills or become addicted to, to, uh-

Joe Rogan 21:03 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 21:03 ... heroin and get fentanyl in it.

Joe Rogan 21:05 Yes.

Dave Smith 21:05 And you wouldn't have that if, if drugs were legal.

Joe Rogan 21:08 I-

Dave Smith 21:08 So you wouldn't have... You would have st- Like, there's not a problem with people smoking cigarettes and finding out there was fentanyl in their cigarettes.

Joe Rogan 21:14 Right.

Dave Smith 21:14 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 21:14 Right.

Dave Smith 21:14 Because it's not... But there would be (laughs) if, or, or there could be if it was on the black market and you were just getting it from some gang member, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yeah.

Dave Smith 21:21 Um, so it would reduce... Uh, I think it would reduce de- uh, overdoses in that sense. Um, there's no question it's a trade-off. There's no good perfect solution where there's not any costs.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 21:31 But, um, but the major benefit would be you would eliminate, like, the, the gang violence.

Joe Rogan 21:37 Yeah.

Dave Smith 21:38 And already even I think when they, um... And I don't have this, like, numbers right at the top of my head, uh, on the front of my head. But, um, the, the weed trade from Mexico, that used to be the big thing.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 21:47 And I think that's all but gone now because like-

Joe Rogan 21:49 Not necessarily. It's not. Um, apparently because there's so many states where marijuana is still illegal.

Dave Smith 21:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:56 Um, most of the illegal weed is actually being grown on state land by the cartels.

Dave Smith 22:03 Is that right? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Yeah, there's a guy named John Norris. He wrote a book called Hidden War, and he came on the podcast to discuss it. He actually was a game warden and, you know, wanted to have a job, like, you know, checking fishing licenses and stuff, doing game warden stuff. And, uh, he detailed it in the book how they found this creek that had been diverted and dried up, and they were trying to fi- They thought maybe a farmer had done this or something, some obstruction. And they traced it to this grow op that was in the middle of the forest. And his unit became like a tactical unit 'cause they were having gunfights with cartel members. Instead of it being like game warden, now it became like a DEA-type situation-

Dave Smith 22:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:44 ... where you're running into these public land grow ops where these guys, they take this area, and they level it, and they, they grow weed there. And these guys were camping there, and you know, they had guns, and it's wild shit, man. It's-

Dave Smith 22:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:59 The, the whole book is incredible, and the stories.

Dave Smith 23:01 Yeah, it's very interesting.

Joe Rogan 23:02 So that's 90%, he was saying, of all the illegal marijuana that's being sold in America is coming out of these places.

Dave Smith 23:08 Really?

Joe Rogan 23:08 Yeah.

Dave Smith 23:09 Yeah. Well, there's... I mean, this is why... Again, this is why I think you just gotta call the whole thing off at a certain point.

Joe Rogan 23:14 I-

Dave Smith 23:14 It's been a failure. I mean, we've been doing it for, what is it, 40-something years or so?

Joe Rogan 23:18 Yeah.

Dave Smith 23:18 I mean, it's like... It's... Or maybe more than that. Is it 50 years now?

Joe Rogan 23:21 Yeah, I think it's since 1970.

Dave Smith 23:22 Right. 1970-

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah.

Dave Smith 23:23 Was it '72 or something like that it started?

Joe Rogan 23:25 Yeah.

Dave Smith 23:25 You know?

Joe Rogan 23:25 50-plus years.

Dave Smith 23:26 Yeah. I mean, it's like, okay, so we fought a war, and the drugs won.

Joe Rogan 23:30 (laughs)

Dave Smith 23:30 And now it's time to... Just like with the Taliban-

Joe Rogan 23:32 They're not just-

Dave Smith 23:32 ... it's time to accept-

Joe Rogan 23:33 They keep winning. Like, they're winning, and they're, they're killing us.

Dave Smith 23:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:36 It's destroying our country, and it's not the legal ones. It's the illegal ones. And the reason why it's destroying it is because they're illegal.

Dave Smith 23:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:44 So it's also propping up the cartels. It's like they just right ac- You can walk right over there. People walk over here, walk right over there, and you have literally one of the scariest results of drug prohibition right there, where you have insane crime and, and insane resources that the cartels have. They control the government. They control cities.

Dave Smith 24:06 Yep.

Joe Rogan 24:07 ... it's wild shit, and it's all because of our policies.

Dave Smith 24:10 And it's interesting that we got the guy, uh, in the White House who was the champion of it for those entire 50 years. I mean, oh, w- maybe he wasn't in the whole 50 years, but he was in it for, like, 40-plus of them.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Yeah.

Dave Smith 24:20 And he was the, the great champion of it. And now, and it's so funny that now, he, like, you know, runs on, like, "Diversity, yeah, but I, you know... But I hired the first, uh, you know, vice president who's Black," or whatever, you know? (laughs) And it's like, "Yeah, sure, I threw, you know, hundreds of thousands of them in cages, but now, look at me. I got one right next to me."

Joe Rogan 24:38 Yes.

Dave Smith 24:39 And yes, she's an idiot, but okay, I hired her.

Joe Rogan 24:41 That's so funny how Dylan Mulvaney is, like, the person they all go to, whether it's Bud Light or the president. Like, even the president was getting interviewed by Dylan Mulvaney, which is like... Uh, what do you t- why? Like, what is the r- like... And she's talking about, "Day 300 of womanhood," and Biden's like, "Bri- bless your heart." Like... (laughs)

Dave Smith 25:05 Uh, you know what's so funny-

Joe Rogan 25:06 (laughs)

Dave Smith 25:06 Did you, did you hear the thing where Joe Biden, uh, lied and said he was for gay marriage since, like-

Joe Rogan 25:13 Oh, yeah.

Dave Smith 25:13 ... the '70s or something like that or whatever it was?

Joe Rogan 25:15 Yeah, he lies all the time.

Dave Smith 25:15 So, he's... Yeah, he's just making stuff up. But it was so funny because it's, um... 'Cause he's just so old, and you know when old people try to say the politically correct thing, and no matter how they say it, it still comes out-

Joe Rogan 25:27 (laughs) Yes, yes.

Dave Smith 25:27 ... like old and wro-... You know?

Joe Rogan 25:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Smith 25:29 Just, like, th-... You know? They're just like, "Colored people could read just as good as me and you."

Joe Rogan 25:32 Yeah.

Dave Smith 25:32 And you're like, "Oh, dude, that's the most racist thing to..."

Joe Rogan 25:34 I believe they said that.

Dave Smith 25:34 So he goes, he goes... He's telling this story of when he was a kid-

Joe Rogan 25:37 (laughs)

Dave Smith 25:38 ... at his dad, and he saw two, uh, gay people kiss, and then he goes, "And then one of them walked into the bank. Like, they had a job just like you or me." You know?

Joe Rogan 25:46 (laughs)

Dave Smith 25:46 And he was like, he was very... You're like, "Yeah, dude, they're people." Like, what are you...?

Joe Rogan 25:50 (laughs)

Dave Smith 25:51 This was a revelation to you? Like, it still just sounds so fucked up, but he's trying to be cool.

Joe Rogan 25:55 And what was the thing that he said something about, uh, just like white kids can? He was talking about-

Dave Smith 26:01 He said-

Joe Rogan 26:01 ... poor people?

Dave Smith 26:02 He said, "Poor kids are just as bright as white kids."

Joe Rogan 26:06 (laughs) What?

Dave Smith 26:07 And you're like, "Oh my God."

Joe Rogan 26:09 Jesus Christ.

Dave Smith 26:09 Jesus, the Freudian slips.

Joe Rogan 26:12 Oh my God. (laughs)

Dave Smith 26:12 Like, ugh. It's like, you just... But it's just also, like... You know, in the same way that if any of us had, like, you know, our 85-year-old grandpa at the table-

Joe Rogan 26:19 Yeah.

Dave Smith 26:20 ... every now and then, if they say some things, you're gonna roll your eyes at th- You c- you're almost like, "Yeah, you can't expect him to be-"

Joe Rogan 26:24 Right.

Dave Smith 26:24 "... with the times on this." You're like, "Just stop making Biden talk about this stuff." He's d- he's not with the... But the fact that he has to not only do that but has to be with the load- latest woke insanity-

Joe Rogan 26:36 Yeah.

Dave Smith 26:36 Like, that this guy. Like, that any man in their 80s has go to be like, "Oh, yeah, Dylan Mulvaney, totally. That's a, that's a beautiful woman right there. That's what I'm looking at."

Joe Rogan 26:45 (laughs) Yeah.

Dave Smith 26:46 "Beautiful woman." That he's got to, like, actually do that is just hilarious.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Yeah, it's, it's very interesting. It's really interesting, the mental gymnastics that people will put themselves through. (laughs)

Dave Smith 26:57 Y- Yeah, it's really something.

Joe Rogan 27:00 Just the, the idea that they're not stopping him from running again. I mean, it's just... You can't e-

Dave Smith 27:07 I'm shocked. I didn't think... I thought they were gonna replace him as the nominee at the last minute in, uh, 2020. I was shocked he, he did that, and I was sure he'd be a, a one-term president. And I'm still now not even convinced he's gonna be the nominee in 2024, but I... The more time goes on, and I'm like, "I guess they're actually doing this."

Joe Rogan 27:24 Well, the f- the fascinating thing is they will not allow, um... For the primaries, they're not gonna allow debates.

Dave Smith 27:31 Oh, they don't wanna let RFK on a stage with Biden.

Joe Rogan 27:33 Yeah, isn't that interesting?

Dave Smith 27:34 RFK will rip that old man up.

Joe Rogan 27:36 And then, imagine if his voice was good.

Dave Smith 27:38 It's really a shame.

Joe Rogan 27:39 It is a shame that he-

Dave Smith 27:40 It's really... The job really, the job is really a speaking tour.

Joe Rogan 27:44 Yeah.

Dave Smith 27:44 And it's a, it's a real issue that he has, he has issues speaking, but if you get-

Joe Rogan 27:48 He did have surgery recently, and it's better than it was before.

Dave Smith 27:51 Is it, is it better?

Joe Rogan 27:51 Yeah.

Dave Smith 27:52 But he's, uh, he's an interesting guy on a lot o- in a lot of ways, and I know people will say, um... You know, 'cause he was a, like, a vaccine skeptic way before the COVID vaccine.

Joe Rogan 28:03 Yes.

Dave Smith 28:03 He's been a skeptic of vaccines in general. And a lot of people say that's like, "Oh, you know, this is a conspiracy theory," or, "It's too far." But, you know, that argument after COVID is really much weaker-

Joe Rogan 28:15 Much weaker.

Dave Smith 28:15 ... than it used to be, because people are actually like, "Yeah, I'm listening now."

Joe Rogan 28:18 Yes.

Dave Smith 28:18 "Now I'm actually kinda listening-"

Joe Rogan 28:19 Yeah.

Dave Smith 28:19 "... to that guy." And-

Joe Rogan 28:20 It seems like there's a playbook.

Dave Smith 28:21 And-

Joe Rogan 28:21 And you guys have been following this playbook forever.

Dave Smith 28:24 Yes. And I got... His speech, um, h- his announcement speech last week, what... He spoke for over an hour, and, I mean, it was really fantastic. I, I'm... I don't agree with everything the guy says, but the m- the major theme of his speech was that there is this unholy, uh, alliance of big business and big government, and they're working together to screw over the American people. And, like, uh, damned if anyone can argue that that's not true.

Joe Rogan 28:52 No one can argue that.

Dave Smith 28:52 That that's just so obviously the case, you know? And he went through this whole thing. He's really... Uh, he was really great on the stuff, on the war in Ukraine and being skeptical about, like, "What the hell are we doing here?" Um, really, really great on the COVID stuff. And he's a Kennedy, and he's not just like one of these, like, you know, like, peripheral Kennedys, like I married a third cousin type Kennedy. Like, he's, he's Bobby Kennedy's kid.

Joe Rogan 29:16 Yeah.

Dave Smith 29:16 There's something powerful about that even still, I think.

Joe Rogan 29:19 And it's amazing that we've come so far, we're so far gone, that they're not grasping that.

Dave Smith 29:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Th- they're not latching onto that. You want a Democratic president? Like, he could be the guy. But the thing is they don't want that. They want someone who adheres to the narrative 100% completely, doesn't get off track, is, is in cahoots with big business and big tech-

Dave Smith 29:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:43 ... and everything else. You g-

Dave Smith 29:45 Well, g- it's, it's just that, like, they're... The, the narrative is part of it, but it's... The narrative serves the system, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:53 Yeah, yeah.

Dave Smith 29:53 So the problem is that he's kind of outside the system-

Joe Rogan 29:56 Right.

Dave Smith 29:56 ... at least to some degree. He... At least he seems like he is. I don't... You know, I don't know. But there's also something to... You know. Look, I don't know exactly. I, I... In fact, I haven't heard him address it. I'm sure he has. But I don't know exactly where he is on his uncle and his father's, you know, uh, assassinations. But I know that his dad-... was completely convinced that the, that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy that they weren't telling us about. He did not buy at all-

Joe Rogan 30:22 Yeah.

Dave Smith 30:22 ... into the like Lee Harvey Oswald lone, you know, wolf thing. Um, so it's gotta also be, you're a different type of outsider to the system if you believe the CIA killed your uncle.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Yeah.

Dave Smith 30:32 That's a little bit different than just-

Joe Rogan 30:34 And maybe your dad, too.

Dave Smith 30:34 And maybe your dad, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:35 Yeah.

Dave Smith 30:35 That's a little bit different than just like, you know, "While I disagree with my opponent, I respect his, (laughs) you know, opinion." Or something like that.

Joe Rogan 30:42 Yeah.

Dave Smith 30:42 That's a real like, no, you understand how evil and corrupt this system is. And that's what makes him an attractive candidate to me. I like people who recognize how evil and corrupt the system is, 'cause it really is both of those things.

Joe Rogan 30:54 And he's got direct connection to it. I mean-

Dave Smith 30:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:58 ... it, it was evil to his family.

Dave Smith 31:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:00 Yeah, and it's just ... Have you read The Real Anthony Fauci? His book?

Dave Smith 31:05 No. I, I haven't. I've, I've heard him talk about it in, in-

Joe Rogan 31:08 Holy shit.

Dave Smith 31:08 ... several different interviews. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:10 If he hasn't been sued yet, and he hasn't been sued yet for it, like does that mean it's true? I mean, he's got so many references in that book. If you read that book, just when they talk about what they did during the AIDS pandemic.

Dave Smith 31:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Holy shit, man.

Dave Smith 31:25 Fauci's a very bad guy.

Joe Rogan 31:26 The, what they did th- I mean, in the book, I mean, I don't wanna paraphrase. I wanna make sure I'm, I'm accurate about this, but they tested vaccines on foster kids, including babies. Like when you read what they did during the pandemic, and it's f- spooky fucking shit. Also, like the application of AZT as a treatment?

Dave Smith 31:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:49 That AZT was a, uh, chemotherapy medication that was killing people quicker than cancer. It's scary stuff, man. When you, when he, when he talks about Arthur Ashe, and Arthur Ashe taking AZT and dying very quickly afterwards, and that Arthur Ashe didn't even like have any symptoms before he s- got on medication?

Dave Smith 32:08 Yeah. Well, it's one of, I think-

Joe Rogan 32:10 (coughs)

Dave Smith 32:10 ... one of the things that, um, people, uh, a lot of people have woken up to this over the last few years with all of the COVID insanity. Um, and I think a lot of people have woken up to this over, say, the last 20 years of all the disastrous wars in the Middle East, is that it's very ... (sighs) it's very easy for them to just be like, "Oh, look. We have consensus amongst the expert class." You know, like, "We have consensus amongst the scientists that this is, we need lockdowns and then we need these vaccine mandates and we need all of this, and all the sci- this is the science." The scientists agree.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Right.

Dave Smith 32:41 But then once you actually like look into it a little bit, you realize that it's like, no, it's not that there's consensus amongst the scientists. It's that any scientist that doesn't agree with the consensus gets kicked out. Like they're-

Joe Rogan 32:52 Yes.

Dave Smith 32:52 ... they all get excommunicated and silenced. And then, oh, it's just th- it's this completely corrupt group that is very involved with this money-making machine. And you're like, "Oh, there's such perverse incentives here." And so it's like, and, and the w- people realize this when, after time, it just gets demonstrated that what they were saying is wrong.

Joe Rogan 33:11 Yes.

Dave Smith 33:11 Like no one's ar- no one can argue anymore that if you get the COVID vaccine, you can't get or transmit COVID.

Joe Rogan 33:17 No.

Dave Smith 33:17 No one's arguing that anymore 'cause it's just, you can't keep up that lie anymore.

Joe Rogan 33:21 And that was so quick.

Dave Smith 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:23 It was so quick. I mean, that lie was being pushed on mainstream news just a couple of years ago.

Dave Smith 33:29 Well, dude, me and you were like talking about this stuff. It's so fa- it's like, it seems like not really that long ago, right, that we were having like some conversations where there'd be these clips of what we were saying and it would be like, "Look at this COVID misinformation."

Joe Rogan 33:41 Yeah.

Dave Smith 33:41 And it's ki- and now you're like, "Uh-huh. Let's, let's look back at that."

Joe Rogan 33:44 Yeah.

Dave Smith 33:44 The, the World Health Organization is now saying that y- the, the vaccine shouldn't be given to kids. And your, the thing you said that was so controversial that Fauci had to comment on it was you were like, "Ah, d- you know, for young people, I don't know if I'd really tell y- tell you to take this vaccine. Just be really healthy. So like, eat really well, exercise, get a lot of sunlight." That was your dangerous misinformation-

Joe Rogan 34:02 Yeah.

Dave Smith 34:03 ... that you were spreading. And like let's-

Joe Rogan 34:05 Wild.

Dave Smith 34:05 ... let's put that up against ... And at the same time, Fauci was saying, "If you get the vaccine, eh, you're not gonna get COVID."

Joe Rogan 34:10 Yeah.

Dave Smith 34:10 "You can't transmit it." You're like, "So who's, who was spreading misinformation then?"

Joe Rogan 34:14 Not only that, they knew it was misinformation-

Dave Smith 34:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:16 ... because they had never tested it for transmission.

Dave Smith 34:19 Yes. They, th- they, they knew it. The woman, uh, I, I'm blanking on her name, but the, she was on the task force, the original task force in 2020. She's the, the lady who's always there at the podium with Trump and Fauci.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Mm-hmm. Birx?

Dave Smith 34:30 Yes, yes. She said, um, in like a kind of diplomatic way, but she was like, "Now, I," w- she goes, "I always knew that it wouldn't prevent transmission, and I felt that we overreached when we were making that claim."

Joe Rogan 34:43 Hmm.

Dave Smith 34:43 And you're like, "Overreached?" Lady, all of the policies that you put into place were built around that idea. The whole idea of vaccine mandates and, uh, vaccine passports and all of this, this was all predicated on the idea that it wasn't just your choice. Like it wasn't just like, oh, you're choosing for your own health risk. That you were protecting other people. That was the whole idea that the whole thing was based on. If that's not true, then there was no justification for this. And millions of people lost their jobs over this.

Joe Rogan 35:13 Yeah.

Dave Smith 35:13 Not to mention just the amount of people who were just like disenfranchised, like in major cities across the country. You couldn't go to a restaurant or couldn't go to a basketball game or whatever. Which may seem less important than the ones who lost their job, but it's still fucked up. I mean-

Joe Rogan 35:26 It's all fucked up 'cause it was also incentivizing people to go along with something that they might not have wanted to do.

Dave Smith 35:31 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:32 And then when you see the amount of people that got damaged because of that, both financially, physically, vaccine injuries, you know, ostracized-

Dave Smith 35:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:42 ... from their communities. How many marriages broke up? How many friendships broke up? I know a lot of people that were skeptical about the COVID vaccine and they were shamed by their friends and they lost contact with those people.

Dave Smith 35:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:53 They stopped being friends with them.

Dave Smith 35:54 I know a lot of people who, um, whose mental health really deteriorated during the lockdowns as well.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Oh, yeah.

Dave Smith 36:00 You know? And it's a lot-

Joe Rogan 36:00 Without a doubt. There's a lot of people that were already r- struggling-

Dave Smith 36:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:05 ... before the pandemic, and that pushed them over the edge.

Dave Smith 36:07 Yeah. For sure. I mean, it's, it's really like, it's something to look back on it now a few years later and just like how crazy it was that we did this.

Joe Rogan 36:15 Yeah.

Dave Smith 36:15 Like the lockdowns, that you were just like, people were at home watching TV to find out from their governor holding a daily press conference telling you what you're allowed to do today.

Joe Rogan 36:25 Yeah.

Dave Smith 36:26 That was reality. And if you think about it from like a mental health point of view, what could be worse?... than to just be like, "Okay, listen. I want you to stay home. I don't want you to see your friends. I don't want you to go out to a game. I want you to stay home and be terrified of a floating abstraction that can come get you-"

Joe Rogan 36:45 Yeah.

Dave Smith 36:45 "... at any point." And on top of that, you're probably also gonna be terrified about, like, your economic security, your financial future, like, all of this stuff.' It's, like, the worst thing you could do for people. So yeah, like you said, for people who are, like, on the edge already, you know? Like pre-

Joe Rogan 36:57 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 36:57 Yeah. That's really bad.

Joe Rogan 36:58 And there was a lot of, like, old celebrities who were really terrified of it.

Dave Smith 37:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:04 Who were just calling everybody a fucking moron for not taking it. "You're, you fucking idiots. You're gonna ruin it all for everyone. Fuck your freedom."

Dave Smith 37:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:13 All that stuff. You remember that?

Dave Smith 37:14 Yep.

Joe Rogan 37:15 That's d- all that shit is wild. It's so wild to see now.

Dave Smith 37:20 Yeah. And I do think, like, I'm not... My personal view is that I think, like, um, I think for the people at the very top, like, I really do think there should be criminal charges. I think we should have Nuremberg-type trials for what people did. I think it's, I think it's one of the greatest crimes perpetrated on the American people by the government.

Joe Rogan 37:36 Especially if we funded the research that caused it in the first place.

Dave Smith 37:40 Which we did. I mean, they, they can argue, "No, we were funding other gain-of-function research at that same lab." But come on, man. We were funding the lab where this virus almost certainly came from. So the, but I, just saying that at the top level, I think people should be prosecuted. They should go, uh, Fauci should be prosecuted, clearly, at least for lying to Congress, if nothing else. Um-

Joe Rogan 38:01 Yeah. He out-and-out lied.

Dave Smith 38:03 Straight up lied.

Joe Rogan 38:03 And now that's proven.

Dave Smith 38:04 Yes. Um, but then, like, for other people, like, you can't... I'm not saying everyone who supported the lockdown should, like, go to jail or something. We have to forgive people. Um, but I do think there should be some process where, like, some type of reconciliation. Um, but I don't, I don't think people should forget. Like, I don't think people... Like, the thing you were just saying about Arnold Schwarzenegger and stuff like that-

Joe Rogan 38:26 Yeah.

Dave Smith 38:26 ... and all that. Don't forget what, what these guys were willing to jump on board with.

Joe Rogan 38:30 Yeah.

Dave Smith 38:31 Like, and how much further would they have gone?

Joe Rogan 38:33 Right.

Dave Smith 38:34 You know what I mean? Like, what, like, they pushed it pretty far, and these guys were completely on board. Like, is it really that unthinkable to say, if they were like, "Hey, we're gonna round up the unvaccinated-"

Joe Rogan 38:43 Yeah.

Dave Smith 38:43 "... and put 'em into camps, take 'em away from their family," you know?

Joe Rogan 38:46 Yeah.

Dave Smith 38:46 Is that... Do you-

Joe Rogan 38:47 I don't think so.

Dave Smith 38:47 I, some people woulda gone along with it.

Joe Rogan 38:49 Imagine if the pandemic was worse. Imagine if this-

Dave Smith 38:52 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:52 ... disease, instead of killing a fraction of 1%, imagine if it killed 5%...

Dave Smith 38:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:59 People would be on board with it. If it killed 10%, people would be on board with it. It would, I- I mean-

Dave Smith 39:04 It's funny 'cause what, um, Sam Harris had that, uh, that, uh, thing. He had a clip where he was saying that basically. Like, he, he was making the argument that like, "Hey, if this thing was worse, you all, we wouldn't have tolerated any of this COVID misinformation."

Joe Rogan 39:18 But here's why that's wrong. Because the vaccine still sucks.

Dave Smith 39:21 Yeah. No, it's, yeah, I mean, if you change, if you change all of the fundamentals, and you make it-

Joe Rogan 39:25 Yeah.

Dave Smith 39:25 ... a vaccine that's perfect and the thing is worse, then okay, fine. But I r- when he said it, the first thing I'm thinking of, it's like, oh yeah, no. Even in your scenario, you guys woulda gone full Nazi.

Joe Rogan 39:37 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 39:37 Like, that's what woulda happened-

Joe Rogan 39:38 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 39:38 ... if it was way worse. Because you guys wouldn't have just been, like, light totalitarians.

Joe Rogan 39:42 Right.

Dave Smith 39:42 You would have gone to, like, some full dark totalitarian thing.

Joe Rogan 39:45 Yeah.

Dave Smith 39:45 And so what now? Now you're gonna what? Uh, we no longer have freedom of speech, and you're gonna just w- what are you gonna do?

Joe Rogan 39:51 Right.

Dave Smith 39:51 What are you gonna do to the person who says, "I don't wanna get the vaccine" now? No.

Joe Rogan 39:54 And when you eliminate that freedom of speech and you allow that government overreach and control, it never goes away.

Dave Smith 40:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 40:00 It never goes away.

Dave Smith 40:02 The-

Joe Rogan 40:02 And the fact that people don't recognize that and they can't just make these logical s- thoughts about the future, like, "If we do this, what happens if someone gets in power and they're evil and they already have these new controls that we put in place?" Like, that was during the NDAA. Remember?

Dave Smith 40:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:20 When Obama was like, "We would never, you know, detain people for no reason." You know, like, yeah, you wouldn't.

Dave Smith 40:26 As he signed it into law.

Joe Rogan 40:27 Yeah, but it, just, just saying that you don't, you would never use it, then don't have it.

Dave Smith 40:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:33 You should need a fucking warrant. There should be, like, a reason why someone gets detained. There shouldn't be an indefinite detention.

Dave Smith 40:40 Yeah, for-

Joe Rogan 40:41 Indefinite.

Dave Smith 40:41 If, if people don't know the reference, in the, in the-

Joe Rogan 40:43 Yeah.

Dave Smith 40:44 ... NDAA Act, uh, I forget which year it was, um, 2011 I think? Um, there was this provision that said that under the auspice of the war on terror that, uh, the government can detain an American citizen and hold them indefinitely with no charges if they decide that you are in some way connected to some type-

Joe Rogan 41:02 Yeah.

Dave Smith 41:02 ... of group. And Obama signed it into law, but he put a signing statement on the bill and said, "I do not plan on invoking this, this privilege, and I, we do not plan on detaining anyone." But you're like, but that's not enough to veto the bill?

Joe Rogan 41:14 Yeah.

Dave Smith 41:14 Like that, like, "Oh yes, this bill does technically repeal the Bill of Rights, but I'm still gonna sign it."

Joe Rogan 41:19 (laughs)

Dave Smith 41:19 "But you just don't worry about that. Just don't-"

Joe Rogan 41:22 It should be illegal. It should be illegal to go against the, the, the ideas that founded this country.

Dave Smith 41:27 Well, the thing is, what's weird is that it is illegal. I mean, like, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Yeah.

Dave Smith 41:32 This is what they all hold their hands up to and take an oath to swear to protect and defend. Um, but the thing is that it doesn't really matter. Like, the thing about laws is that they're just words written on a piece of paper. So it doesn't really matter what's technically legal or illegal. What matters is what people can get away with doing. Like, Obama murdered American citizens with no charges, two of them at least. Um, that is illegal. That i- that is very clearly illegal.

Joe Rogan 42:00 This was, you're talking about drone strikes-

Dave Smith 42:02 Yes, it was-

Joe Rogan 42:03 ... and suspected terrorists.

Dave Smith 42:03 Well, there was, it was Anwar Awlaki and his, his son. Now, with the son, who was like 14 or 15, they came back and killed him a few weeks after they killed the father. Now, I believe they claim he was not the target of the drone strike, like that he was just collateral damage. Still, I would argue should be illegal. Um, but I, also, most people don't buy that because it's just, like, seems very obvious that they were trying to take him out. But the Anwar Awlaki guy certainly had been radicalized and I think had sworn allegian- uh, allegis- uh, allegiance to Al-Qaeda. Um, but he's still an American citizen.And the rules are, if you're an American citizen, are you have to be charged with a crime, and then you get a lawyer in a suit, and a judge in a robe, and 12 d- people who are like (laughs) pooled randomly-

Joe Rogan 42:51 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 42:51 ... and they decide if you're guilty of a crime. And by the way, they can ... uh, he was in Yemen at the time, but they can charge you and have a trial, and if you don't show up to it, they still, you know what I mean, like convict you of it.

Joe Rogan 43:00 Right.

Dave Smith 43:01 But there's a whole process. You don't just have the president drop a sky robot on you because he says you're guilty of these crimes.

Joe Rogan 43:08 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 43:08 Um, and, you know, it's funny when people, the, they'll still talk about Obama, be, "Scandal-free administration!" You know? What was his biggest scandal, he wore a tan suit or something? And you're like, "How about the murdering American citizens without charges?" That was a pretty big scandal, in my opinion.

Joe Rogan 43:22 And, and what about the people that got killed by drones that were totally innocent? Which is in the- somewhere in the range of 90%?

Dave Smith 43:30 Y- it was over 90%. There w- there was one, uh, um, report that came out about that, that I think said somewhere in the neighborhood of like 95% of the people killed in drones were not ... that were collateral damage, were not the targets of the drones. These, you know, they, they like to ... uh, people like to think of these things as they call them precision strikes-

Joe Rogan 43:46 Yeah, surgical.

Dave Smith 43:47 ... but like, they're not surgical strikes. They're, they're bombs that blow shit up, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 43:51 Yeah.

Dave Smith 43:51 And yeah, a lot of innocent people die. And then out of those, i- i- it's even higher than that because e- what they're counting as, as the target of the strikes just means you were put on a list, which is not alwa- does not always mean that you are actually a terrorist. 'Cause what happens is a lot of times they're working with these groups on the ground. They kind of bribe them to rat out who's a terrorist, but a lot of times those groups are just giving you like, their enemy.

Joe Rogan 44:14 Right.

Dave Smith 44:14 You know what I mean? Like someone they wanna get killed, or they're just coming up with names because they want you to keep bribing them. The whole thing was such a clusterfuck, man. Um, and some of it is still, uh, going on to this day, although now we've decided to flirt with an even much more dangerous, uh, nuclear war. (laughs) Um, but yeah, and, and, i- e- even the drone bombings weren't the worst of what Obama did. You know? The worst of what he did was overthrowing Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, um, funding the anti-Assad rebels and starting a civil war in Syria, funding the Saudis and giving them the green light and refueling their fighter jets so they could g- genocide the people of Yemen for eight freaking years. That was the worst of it. Um, and just sh- goddamn, goddamn tragedy.

Joe Rogan 44:59 Yeah, but he talks so well.

Dave Smith 45:01 He gave a hell of a speech.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Great president.

Dave Smith 45:03 He really gave a hell of a speech.

Joe Rogan 45:04 Great statesman.

Dave Smith 45:05 He's ... I ... It's, it's ... People forget how good he was. The job aged him a lot too.

Joe Rogan 45:10 Oh, yeah.

Dave Smith 45:10 So he wasn't as good at the end as he was at the beginning, but if you go listen to his, um ... It's nonsense. It's mostly just like gooey nothingness, but if you listen to his speech at the, um, the 2008, uh, Democratic National Convention, his official acceptance speech, it's just like ... It's a masterclass on h- on public speaking. He would just say these things, even when they were like meaningless, but he would ... Like, I remember ... I'm trying to think if I can remember. He has this thing where he's like, uh, he's like, he's like, "I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain. The men and women who have fought and died in our Armed Forces have been Democrats, and Republicans, and Independents, but they did not die defending a red America or a blue America. They died defending the United States of America." And it's like, waah!

Joe Rogan 45:56 Woo!

Dave Smith 45:56 It's like a ... But the way he would deliver it-

Joe Rogan 45:58 Woo!

Dave Smith 45:58 ... is so like ... It really just tugs at your-

Joe Rogan 45:59 Yeah.

Dave Smith 45:59 ... like insides and makes you like, "Goddamn." And then after a little while you walk away and you're like, "Wait, but what did he say?"

Joe Rogan 46:06 Right. (laughs)

Dave Smith 46:06 You're like, "Oh, that was nothing." I mean, it was nothing. It wasn't like, you know-

Joe Rogan 46:09 But that's a uniting thing.

Dave Smith 46:09 He did say some good things when he ran though.

Joe Rogan 46:11 Yeah.

Dave Smith 46:11 He did. I mean, he, he ran on some really good policies like ending the, uh, the, the wars, and uh, closing Guantanamo Bay, and repealing the Patriot Act, and restoring the rule of law, and you know, ending torture, and all.

Joe Rogan 46:22 Yeah.

Dave Smith 46:23 The shame is he did none of it. Um, and I think that's ... Uh, like I, I go back and forth. You could pick like any president really of my lifetime and you'd be like, "Who ruined the 21st century for America?" Um, you could certainly make an argument for George W. Bush, um, and Dick Cheney, but there's something about Obama. I think I, I put probably more blame than anyone else on him, because he was ... He was supposed to be the response. And like that's ... The way this system of government is supposed to work, or so they say, is like, "Well, we have these democratic procies- processes, you know, so you can," um, you know, "if they're ... if you're upset with these guys, you can kick the bums out and vote for these guys." And obviously we all know it's like the w- then they narrow it down to two teams, and those two teams happen to have the same policy when it comes to, you know, the military-industrial complex, or the banking-industrial complex, or the pharmaceutical-industrial complex. They're all on the same s- ... So that's how the uni-party works. Like no matter who you vote in-

Joe Rogan 47:21 Yeah.

Dave Smith 47:21 ... they're all supposed to be ... But the country was so furious with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who handed him two disastrous failed wars and the worst financial crisis in 100 years. And they were so furious with them that they voted the most opposite thing they could. You know, the m- this junior senator, Constitutional lawyer, brilliant, articulate, you know, everything that was the opposite of George W. Bush. And he was supposed to be the answer, and then he got in and just continued the Bush, like the Bush administration. It might as well have been the third and fourth term of George W. Bush. And that is where the country spins out, to me.

Joe Rogan 47:58 (laughs)

Dave Smith 47:58 That's where you end up with Trump.

Joe Rogan 48:00 I bet if you were friends with Obama, if you could ... if you really were friends with him, if you could have a couple of drinks, maybe spark up a joint and talk to that guy, if he really trusted you and knew you were never gonna tell anybody-

Dave Smith 48:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:12 ... I bet he could tell you some shit.

Dave Smith 48:15 Yeah. I bet you're right.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Because I, I'm, I'm m- on ... I'm more of like a believer in what Putin has said about this, when he talks about how he's been through three different presidents and they all have these plans.

Dave Smith 48:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:30 And, and he goes, "When they get into office and people that are dressed in a suit like mine come in and sit them down and tell them how everything works." If you think about-... how much access to the real understanding of how the government works is ever gonna be given to a junior senator who's running for president? I bet very little. I bet very little. I bet there's no speeches, I bet there's no conversation about it. I think once you get in, once you're in the Pentagon, once you're in the Oval Office, once you're meeting with these people and you realize, like, "Holy shit," and then you realize this machine behind you that's pushing all the buttons and, and you're a spokesperson for this machine. You're gonna-

Dave Smith 49:09 Yeah, and I think, I think this might be why they hated Trump so much-

Joe Rogan 49:11 He didn't change much.

Dave Smith 49:12 ... because I think that speech just didn't work on him.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Yeah, he's like-

Dave Smith 49:14 Like- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:15 Yeah.

Dave Smith 49:15 ... dude, there's this story, and I don't know if this is true or not, but it sounds so true. I think it was in Bob Woodward's book, I, I can't remember where it was, but I... This may not be true, but it just sounds so true, that I guess after Trump won the election and he goes to, uh, Camp David, um, I think this is still while he was, um, uh, president-elect. It might've been right after he got in, I'm not sure. But I guess he goes and he's, like, at this, like, CIA, like, thing, and they said that he came in (laughs) and there's, like, a wall for, like, um, like, agents who died in the line of duty.

Joe Rogan 49:46 (laughs)

Dave Smith 49:46 And they said Trump just walks in and stands right in front of it, which is, like, crazy disrespectful to do. (laughs) And they said he just starts talking to the room about how tremendous his victory was. Like, he just gets there-

Joe Rogan 49:56 Jeez.

Dave Smith 49:56 ... and he's like, "Everyone said we were gonna lose, but we won big, and we won by..." (laughs) And it just sounds...

Joe Rogan 50:00 (laughs)

Dave Smith 50:00 Like, I don't know if that really happened, but it so sounds like that really happened.

Joe Rogan 50:04 (laughs)

Dave Smith 50:04 And you can just imagine all these CIA agents just like, "We gotta get rid of this guy." Um-

Joe Rogan 50:09 Yeah.

Dave Smith 50:09 But, like what you said about the stuff, like the speech they give, who knows? It's a real interesting thing to, to think about.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Yeah.

Dave Smith 50:15 And-

Joe Rogan 50:15 I, I would love-

Dave Smith 50:16 Great-

Joe Rogan 50:16 ... to talk to Trump about that speech.

Dave Smith 50:17 It's a great Bill Hicks, uh, a great-

Joe Rogan 50:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dave Smith 50:19 ... Bill Hicks bit.

Joe Rogan 50:20 The bit about showing the Kennedy assassination-

Dave Smith 50:22 I-

Joe Rogan 50:22 ... from an-

Dave Smith 50:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:23 ... angle you've never seen before. (laughs)

Dave Smith 50:24 Such a great bit. But, uh, there's... I will say that there definitely are, what we, like, what we know is there definitely are forces that kinda roll over presidents. And even with Obama, like, you know, if you remember the, the story with, um, the, um, General McChrystal?

Joe Rogan 50:40 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 50:41 And how he went to the media and told them... This is the guy who, uh, Michael Hastings ended up getting fired-

Joe Rogan 50:47 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 50:47 ... 'cause he was, you know, talking shit about Obama-

Joe Rogan 50:49 Maybe-

Dave Smith 50:49 ... to him in a bar.

Joe Rogan 50:50 Maybe whacked.

Dave Smith 50:51 Well, you know, he just was driving too fast that night, I guess. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Yeah.

Dave Smith 50:54 Uh-

Joe Rogan 50:54 That one.

Dave Smith 50:54 ... I don't know the story there.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Let's talk about that one in a minute.

Dave Smith 50:57 Sure, sure. I, I'm not sure if that i- it w- like, what happened with that, 'cause I have heard that, like, his brother said he started drinking again or something like that. So I don't know the details of that story exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Oh, I would drink too if assassins drank after me.

Dave Smith 51:08 Yes. If I was, if I was working on uncovering-

Joe Rogan 51:10 Yeah.

Dave Smith 51:10 ... CIA corruption, I'd probably be drinking.

Joe Rogan 51:11 Not just working on uncovering CIA corruption, but you were embedded with these soldiers and they got comfortable with you.

Dave Smith 51:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:19 And then you printed all the things that they said.

Dave Smith 51:22 Which, but what's, what's very interesting about that is that it, it, it was a really good... It was a really important story because it makes you recognize that, like, wow, even these, like, very high-ranking generals are talking shit about the president, like-

Joe Rogan 51:33 Yeah.

Dave Smith 51:34 ... "This, ah, this fucking asshole doesn't know what he's doing," and that.

Joe Rogan 51:36 Right, right.

Dave Smith 51:36 But to McChrystal, before that interview, he went to the media, because Obama, I guess, gave him the surge he wanted, but he put a, an end date on it.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 51:46 And he was like, "But our troops'll be out by this date." And that pissed him off, and so he went to the media and told them that, you know, uh, he said, "I haven't had any contact with the president, and we haven't been talking since this and that." And then the media was like, put all this pressure on Obama, like, "You're not even talking to your guy over there in Afghanistan?" And basically kind of tied his hands politically.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Mm.

Dave Smith 52:05 So that he kinda just had to continue the war.

Joe Rogan 52:07 Wow.

Dave Smith 52:07 And there's a lot of stuff like that that happens. And with Trump, I mean, it was, it was reported that they lied to him about the number of troops in, uh, in, in Syria, that when he said he wanted to pull the troops out, they lied to him and said there were far less than there actually were.

Joe Rogan 52:21 Wow.

Dave Smith 52:21 Like, they're, and they're just bragging about this. Uh, it's, it's really... You, you, you realize that this thing is all fake. It's not run the way people think it's run.

Joe Rogan 52:33 Yeah, and that is, if anything, I mean, even if you're a Trump hater, you have to recognize that he exposed that. He showed us that in a way that we'd never seen before, because they were so furious at him. They were willing to, like, show their powers. They were w- they were almost like witches that start casting spells, and you're like, "Oh."

Dave Smith 52:51 Oh. Well, what's weird is that so many of the, the Trump haters, which, like, b- be a Trump hater. I don't, I'm... It's fine. I think there's a lot-

Joe Rogan 52:57 So easy.

Dave Smith 52:57 ... to cr- There's a lot to criticize there. But, like, so many of the Trump haters will talk about, like, um, you know, undermining our democracy, and he, he in- incited an insurrection against, like, this democratic republic or whatever, but then you'll see things like, look, this just came out, um, uh, within the last week and a half or so, that we now know that it was, it was, uh, Blinken, the current secretary of state, before he came in who requested that the CIA put together this letter that said there were 50 intelligence experts who had determined that the Hunter Biden laptop had all the earmarks of Russian disinformation, you know, th- just to help Joe Biden win. Now, forget even the fact that, um, the intelligence agencies are interfering in an election. Th- they're, they're doing it to undermine who was the current president of the United States of America-

Joe Rogan 53:53 They're also-

Dave Smith 53:53 ... the guy they work for.

Joe Rogan 53:55 They're also openly lying.

Dave Smith 53:56 Yes, yes. I mean, that's a b- all of these are big problems.

Joe Rogan 53:59 But the fact that that's not freaking people out, that they openly lied about that.

Dave Smith 54:03 Yeah, it's, it's... I mean, all of this stuff is very troubling. And then, of course, you know, um...

Joe Rogan 54:07 I mean, that's dictator shit.

Dave Smith 54:09 Well, they just, th- just, uh-

Joe Rogan 54:10 That's not supposed to be how America works, and if you're a guy that's involved in doing that, like, Jesus Christ. How much power do you need? Like, you, you, you can't do that. I- it's so deeply un-American. To, to lie to the American people about something that might affect an election is crazy. That's cr- And to justify it because you want your guy to get in there, like, man. That, that's a crazy abuse of power, and the problem with that is I think the FBI is very important. I think the CIA is very important. I think all these people that are-... understanding what's going on in the world, and, and with, with no filter. They have all the access to information. If you don't have that in this world, this climate that we live in, I think you're fucked. But you can't do that because that's gonna undermine everybody else's understanding of what you're, you're willing to do. So all the good work that they do, people are gonna mistrust it. There's a lot of people that have lost their faith in the intelligence community because of things like this.

Dave Smith 55:17 Well, and because of the stuff that they do. I mean, it's like-

Joe Rogan 55:20 It's fucking terrible.

Dave Smith 55:20 ... it's not ... But it's kinda like-

Joe Rogan 55:22 But I think a lot of those people are fucking patriots, which is so fucked.

Dave Smith 55:25 Yeah. I'm sure there are, there are some, um, but, but-

Joe Rogan 55:28 It's just they're stuck in a system.

Dave Smith 55:30 Yes. But that's the problem, is that it's like, you know, it's like when people say they're losing, uh, that people are losing trust in these institutions, it's like, well, yes, but it's because they've fi- found out what the institutions are doing.

Joe Rogan 55:41 But also-

Dave Smith 55:41 It's like if your, if your wife found out that you're cheating all over her, and you're like, "Well, this is a problem 'cause she's losing trust in me," it's like, well, yeah, but she's not, she shouldn't trust you-

Joe Rogan 55:50 Yeah.

Dave Smith 55:50 ... 'cause she found out what you're doi- ... You know what I mean? Like it's ... So-

Joe Rogan 55:52 But isn't it who's gonna watch the watchmen?

Dave Smith 55:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:55 Isn't, isn't that it? Because when you have any kind of a position like that where you have m- just insane power over information and policy and what gets done and no one, no one is managing it, like what ... like from outside of it, that's saying, "Hey, what are you doing? No. That's ... Y- you got the Constitution. You can't do that. Don't do that." There's no, like, oversight where there's someone who is completely objective, uh, is loyal only to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and lays out, like, the rules. These are the fucking rules for America. Like you can't operate outside of these rules just because you want your guy to win. That's un-American. That's as un-American as anything else that you could be prosecuted for that we get ... Think about what Assange did, what they're trying to get after ... W- is ... What's more un-American, lying to the American people or exposing the American people to information that has been hidden from them that's deeply disturbing, that would change their opinion on things?

Dave Smith 57:04 And that's criminal. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:06 Yes.

Dave Smith 57:06 Like expose actual war crimes.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Like what is, what is America? That's the thing. Like what are we? Are we the shining light of the world? Are we the, this, uh, incredible garden of creativity and innovation? 'Cause we're that too.

Dave Smith 57:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:21 We, we're, we're a, a wild, fucking amazing experiment in self-government. But we gotta stick to the fucking rules. And if you get people in power and no one is able to stop them from not sticking to the rules, and then when they do violate the law, there's no consequences, we've forgot what it is to be American. That's not good for them.

Dave Smith 57:43 Well, like, but he-

Joe Rogan 57:43 It's not good for us. It's not good for any of us. We're all in this together. You can't do that.

Dave Smith 57:49 Yeah. Well, like you said, we are kind of all of those things.

Joe Rogan 57:52 Yeah.

Dave Smith 57:52 You know, we're like ... We're, we are this like ... You know, it's ... Like in, in the wise words of the great Eminem-

Joe Rogan 57:58 (laughs)

Dave Smith 57:58 ... "I'm all, I'm all for America. Fuck the government." You know? Like we're a great-

Joe Rogan 58:02 But not even fuck the government. Fuck the bad parts of the government. There's, there's people-

Dave Smith 58:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 ... in the government that are trying to do the right thing. I know there are. There's people in the government that are patriots. There's people in the government that really want this place to get better. You don't think Bernie Sanders wants the government to get better? I think he definitely wants the world to get better.

Dave Smith 58:19 Maybe. I-

Joe Rogan 58:20 I think that guy realistically wants the world to be a better place. I think Tulsi Gabbard realistically-

Dave Smith 58:26 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:26 ... wanted the world to be a better place. She was in government. She was-

Dave Smith 58:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:29 ... a congresswoman for 10 years.

Dave Smith 58:31 But look what the system did to a good congresswoman.

Joe Rogan 58:33 Yeah. But you know what? She recognized that she wasn't willing to be compromised, and she removed herself from what she thought was a corrupt organization.

Dave Smith 58:41 Right. But then, like, so what does that say-

Joe Rogan 58:42 But that shows leadership and courage.

Dave Smith 58:42 ... about Bernie Sanders? But l- right. But I'm just saying, that's kind of the way the system works. So it, it chews up and spits out the people who have some integrity. Not all of them. There are some, some who, who, you know, like, like stay in. Um, but there is some ... I mean, Tulsi Gabbard got called a Russian asset-

Joe Rogan 59:00 Bro.

Dave Smith 59:00 ... by, by Hillary Clinton, by the establishment-

Joe Rogan 59:03 It's wild.

Dave Smith 59:03 ... of her own party.

Joe Rogan 59:04 Wild.

Dave Smith 59:04 You know, a woman who served, was embedded in a medical unit in Iraq.

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah. Served twice.

Dave Smith 59:09 Like right ... Yeah. Really saw the cost of war.

Joe Rogan 59:11 Yes.

Dave Smith 59:11 Really saw it. The war-

Joe Rogan 59:12 Developed that white streak in her hair from that.

Dave Smith 59:14 Yeah. Yeah. The war that Hillary Clinton lied us into and voted for.

Joe Rogan 59:18 (exhales)

Dave Smith 59:19 Um, and then she turns around and calls her, like, th- that she says-

Joe Rogan 59:21 A Russian asset.

Dave Smith 59:22 ... she betrayed her co- the country.

Joe Rogan 59:23 It's wild that they think they can say that 'cause they used to be able to say that with no recourse. They're operating in a world where there was no internet.

Dave Smith 59:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:30 They still have that programming from the world of no internet.

Dave Smith 59:33 Yeah. And also operating in a world ... You know, it's kinda like what you were talking about with, like, the CIA getting so much power that it just becomes so corrupted. And I think a lot, a lot of the story of America and how we've just become so degraded, um, is, is really kind of goes back to the collapse of the Soviet Union and the fact that what, uh, Charles Krauthammer called the uni- the unipolar moment-

Joe Rogan 59:54 Yeah.

Dave Smith 59:54 ... that in the '90s it was like, oh, for the first time ever, that's it. America is the lone superpower. And this really is like what all of those guys said, like all the neoconservatives, like the Project for a New American Century and those guys. They were like, "This is our moment. We can do whatever we want. We are the ... like, we are the sole power in the world." And what they wanted to do was a lot of really awful things. Um, but the ... it almost created so much power and so much hubris that they just think they can get away with everything, like there's no limit on what they can do. And it turns out that actually you're not gods, you're just people. And all of these, this carefully perfect like, "Okay. Well, this is what we'll do, and then this is what's gonna happen. You know, we'll overthrow Saddam Hussein, and then democracy will sweep the region." And it's like, no. It's actually not gonna work out that way. And to me, to me, that's the whole story of the, the war in Ukraine right now too. It was all like, "We're, we're gonna ... We've got this perfect plan."... that we'll just keep expanding NATO, and we'll just keep interfering. We'll have these color-coded revolutions. We'll take over more and more, and we'll, we will be the dominant force. And it's like, yeah, well, there's consequences to that. It doesn't, doesn't just work as perfectly as you planned it out.

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 And-

Dave Smith 1:01:04 Just like with all the wars in the Middle East.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 And what's happening now is very spooky.

Dave Smith 1:01:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 It's really spooky because so many people are dying, and they're trying to put a positive spin on it. It's like, what is the end game here?

Dave Smith 1:01:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 How does this end?

Dave Smith 1:01:17 Well, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 How is there not negotiations? And when Trump says that he... it would've never happened when he was in office, and he would be able to stop it now, like people listen to that and like, that's dangerous too. That's dangerous to, to, to, to have this one solution. Like if... He's gonna fix it. He's gonna fix it. Hey, what if he can't? What if he can't?

Dave Smith 1:01:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 What if this is a thing that's just like Eisenhower warned everyone about? What if this is a thing? What if, what... There's a fucking whole business, just like we're in the business of telling jokes. You know, people who make pies are in the business of pie-making, and people who make war are in the business of war-making. And once that machine gets moving, I mean, it's like a tank with no brakes.

Dave Smith 1:01:58 It's certainly very hard to stop it, and we haven't figured out-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 It seems like it's hard to stop it.

Dave Smith 1:02:02 We haven't figured out how to yet. And, you know, Donald Trump can say that, and I would say I think his rhetoric has been much better on this than Joe Biden's, and at least he's talking about negotiating.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 Do you think he could stop it? You think, do you think there's a way to somehow or anoth- Does the president have that kind of power where the president could go in and say, "I wanna meet with Putin. I wanna, uh, organize a negotiation. I wanna end this right now."

Dave Smith 1:02:26 He could say it-

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 And then-

Dave Smith 1:02:27 You know, and then see what... I don't know. You know, I, I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 He would have to get NATO to pull their arms back.

Dave Smith 1:02:32 Well, the... I mean, the president c- could certainly u- has a lot of leverage there. You know what I mean? Like, there's a-

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 How much power do you think they really genuinely have?

Dave Smith 1:02:43 That's an interesting question. I don't know exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 I think that's what Putin's-

Dave Smith 1:02:46 I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 ... point was about getting into office.

Dave Smith 1:02:48 Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's what he was saying, and it does seem like there's a lot of truth to that. I also... One of the things that makes me, um, skeptical about how great Trump would be on this is that Trump wasn't very good on this issue while he was in. I mean, Trump was the one who sent the weapons into Ukraine. Uh, this is... You know, when he got impeached, it was famously over, um... The Ukrainegate thing was, he said, um, he was, uh, they said it was a quid pro quo where he was holding up the weapons, putting pressure on Zelenskyy to investigate the Bidens. But the part of that story that doesn't get talked about that much is that then he caved and he gave them the weapons, and this was a major pr- this was a major, uh, reason, I think, why this war ended up happening. And what they said at the time was that they were sending in the weapons to, um, to deter the Russians.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Hmm.

Dave Smith 1:03:36 And so either, either they're really bad at deterrents or it actually was a provocation, um, 'cause it certainly didn't deter Vladimir Putin from going in. Um, and I think that... And Trump also got us out of the INF Treaty. Um, he also like... It was just... He was not good on this. He was... In fact, I think he was trying to prove how much he wasn't a Russian agent.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Oh, interesting.

Dave Smith 1:03:55 You know what I mean? That he was kind of like being more hawkish toward Russia-

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Interesting.

Dave Smith 1:03:59 ... um, to show you what a Russian agent I'm not.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Oh, no. (laughs)

Dave Smith 1:04:03 Um, so I don't know. I don't know what he would do. It certainly couldn't be any worse than what the plan is right now. And, you know, to your point that you made, 'cause I know... Last time I was on the show, I talked a lot about this, uh, um, the, the, like kind of the cause of this war in Ukraine, and I put a lot of blame on American foreign policy, and I, uh, it went super viral. And I heard back from (laughs) some people who disagreed. Um, but the, the funny thing about it is, is that it's not... Like, when I was talking about like NATO expansion and how much of a provocation this was to the Russians, when you were talking about like the good people in government-

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Mm-hmm.

Dave Smith 1:04:38 ... it's, it's, it's not like it's just kooks or, you know, crazy libertarians like me. It was... It's not just like Ron Paul and, and Noam Chomsky and Pat Buchanan, like the outsiders who were all against NATO expansion. But the list of people within the government, within the national security apparatus who completely opposed NATO expansion is really impressive and long. There's a lot of, like, really wise people within the government who were completely against NATO expansion in the '90s when it first started. Um, at least three secretaries of defense, uh, Robert McNamara, um, uh, Robert Gates, uh, George W. Bush and Barack Obama's secretary of defense, William Perry, who was Bill Clinton's secretary of defense and, and the secretary of defense at the time, they all opposed it in like the strongest possible language and all explicitly for the reason that this will provoke a conflict with Russia. And they were like... Uh, George Kennan, who was the founder of the containment strategy, old-school cold warrior. There's this great interview he gave with, uh, Thomas Friedman from The New York Times. You can find it online, and it's in the '90s when they're doing the first round of NATO expansion, and he is like furious. Like, his anger comes through the page when you're reading it 'cause he's like, "What are you guys doing? We won the Cold War. We won, and now you're picking a fight with Russia." And this isn't Vladimir Putin's Russia. This was Boris Yeltsin, you know? And he's like, "The, this, these aren't the Soviets. These aren't the communists. These are the heroes who overthrew them."

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Hmm.

Dave Smith 1:06:10 "Why are we picking a fight with them?" And he was a cold warrior. He was like, "You're throwing away my life's work." And he said... And, and this was a really, you know, a c- a crazy prediction, really ominous. He said, "The people who are advocating expanding NATO are gonna continue advocating expanding it and expanding it and expanding it, and then there will be a Russian reaction. And then when there's the Russian reaction, they're gonna say, 'See? That's proof that we have to keep expanding it.'" And damn, if he wasn't right, if he wasn't right about that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Jesus Christ.

Dave Smith 1:06:41 And, but... Oh, but one more, uh, little detail on this 'cause this is really interesting is... So, there's... Uh, in 2008, in February of 2008, there was a private cable.... that the current, uh, CIA head, uh, Burns, uh, Bill Burns, who's currently the head of the CIA. At the time, he was the ambassador to Russia. And so he sent a private, uh, message to Condoleezza Rice, who was the Secretary of State at the time. And this, the only reason we know about this is 'cause of the heroic, uh, Julian Assange, dumped this. So, this was not for the public. This is like what they were saying to each other. And this memo was titled Nyet Means Nyet. And it was about Ukrainian entry into NATO, because this had been floated out for a while. Yeah. There you go. Uh, (laughs) and basically, the whole piece is this, the current CIA director telling, uh, telling Condoleezza Rice that this ... And he's saying it in diplomatic language.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Let's watch. Read it, read it for us.

Dave Smith 1:07:40 Yeah. So he says, "Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they in- uh, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences, which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split involving violence, or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene, a decision Russia does not want to have to face." So this is, now there's another memo that comes out later-

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 (exhales)

Dave Smith 1:08:27 ... that year, where he says, and it's really, it's a really interesting thing, where he goes, he said, "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines." And Burns says to Condoleezza Rice, again, not to the American public, just to let the Secretary of State know, like, this is what I'm saying. He goes, "I've spoken to everyone over here." He goes, "From the craziest right-wingers to Putin's sharpest liberal critics, and it is unanimous to a man, they all agree that Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of red lines, that this is a direct threat to Russia. You cannot do this. In the same way Jack Kennedy was saying you cannot put missiles in Cuba, you cannot bring Ukraine into your military alliance." That was Putin's pos- then this is what they were telling him. And three months after that memo that we were just reading, so this was in February, they had the Bucharest Summit, where NATO announced that Georgia and Ukraine were coming into NATO. And this is what's t- it's like, our ambassador to Russia told our Secretary of State, "Do not do this." And then they went, "We're just announcing that we're gonna do it." And three months after that was the war in, in Georgia, 'cause they announced Georgia and Ukraine were coming in. And then Georgia got ballsy, 'cause they felt like they had