Joe Rogan Experience #1985 - Steven Wright

1. 0:00 – 2:21

   Comedy club hang: green room design, balcony views, and the vibe of a great room

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. SWSteven Wright0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music plays)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) (laughs) It was fun hanging out with you last night.

   4. SWSteven Wright0:14

      Yeah. Yeah, that was ... You know when you're in one of those rooms backstage, it's the same.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Yeah.

   6. SWSteven Wright0:24

      It's the same vibe. It's the same fun. Even if you don't r- you don't know the actual people, it's connection.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      Yeah, in a good room, yeah. Yeah, we're all having fun.

   8. SWSteven Wright0:39

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:39

      Tell- telling jokes. It's a nice ... The setup is so nice too, because where the green room is, it's in between the two rooms. So you can go to one room and watch-

   10. SWSteven Wright0:49

       Oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       ... and then you can go to the other room, like because we have a balcony setup.

   12. SWSteven Wright0:52

       Oh, I didn't notice that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Yeah, it's very nice. It's very, very convenient. And it- That actually was the projector room for the theater, so we converted the projector room for the theater into a green room.

   14. SWSteven Wright1:03

       Very cool.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       It's in a perfect- It's a perfect position because it's in between the two rooms.

   16. SWSteven Wright1:07

       So you got people going, leaving, going-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Yeah.

   18. SWSteven Wright1:09

       ... coming back from the set.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Yeah.

   20. SWSteven Wright1:10

       And then they can- you can see them doing it on the monitor.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       You can see them on the monitor, or you could just step off-

   22. SWSteven Wright1:16

       Get off.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       ... into the balcony 'cause we have that comics balcony, so you could watch. Like if you're on stage, I could just sit up there and watch. I don't have to go downstairs. It's very nice. It's a fun vibe, right?

   24. SWSteven Wright1:26

       Absolutely.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       (clicks tongue) It's great for me-

   26. SWSteven Wright1:28

       I- I-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       ... to watch someone like you appreciate it, like go and, and check it out and go, "Wow, oh."

   28. SWSteven Wright1:34

       Yeah. It's like, uh-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       It sucks that-

   30. SWSteven Wright1:36

       You know, right from the beginning, the same, no matter where you go, I mean, if it's a good place. I would've stayed longer, but I didn't want to, uh ... Is this going now?
2. 2:21 – 5:04

   Steven Wright’s start in comedy (1979): Boston’s Comedy Connection, early influences, first joke

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:21

      ... was it the dingho days? Was that, like, the first place where you started? Like, what was it like? What year did you start out, first of all?

   2. SWSteven Wright2:29

      July '79.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:31

      Oh, wow. What was the scene like?

   4. SWSteven Wright2:34

      Well, it was The Comedy Connection, in Riv-

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:37

      The little one downstairs?

   6. SWSteven Wright2:39

      No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      That one still there?

   8. SWSteven Wright2:39

      No. It was, it was, uh, on Warrenton Street. It was street level. That was the first one. Uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:47

      Before Nick's?

   10. SWSteven Wright2:48

       Before Nick's.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:50

       So it was the same comedy store, or excuse me, the same, um, b- one that was, uh, the Charles Playhouse, right?

   12. SWSteven Wright2:57

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:58

       Yeah.

   14. SWSteven Wright2:59

       You got straight in.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       Yeah.

   16. SWSteven Wright3:01

       And it was right in there.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       It's an amazing room.

   18. SWSteven Wright3:03

       Yeah. L- little, like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       150 people probably?

   20. SWSteven Wright3:07

       No. I don't even think that many. Maybe 100, maybe 90. That was the first-

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       S- eight ceiling? Yeah.

   22. SWSteven Wright3:14

       Yeah, low. That's where I, I went to see an open mic there, and then I thought ... I ... What I, what I was doing is I was, you know, into comedy from watching The Tonight Show. That's when I really got, like, oh, these comedian, you know, Carl and Robert Klein, all these guys. I had to watch The Tonight Show because my brother was older than me, and we had to watch what he wanted.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       (laughs)

   24. SWSteven Wright3:42

       So I wa- you know, I started watching, then I started to like it. And then I heard that there was a club in town, and I thought, "I should go out." You know, I was 16 when I really was into it, but then when I was about 23, I heard of the club, and I thought, "Well, maybe I gotta go t- try it out." I mean, I wouldn't have to move to Los Angeles or New York, and I didn't ... I w- uh ... My character then, I couldn't have ... 23, I'm not gonna move to Los Angeles. It was like a ... That was too much for me. So I went to The Comedy Connection, and I watched a show, and then I learned that there was a ... The open mic nights was every Wednesday, so then I thought, "I'm gonna go back in two weeks."

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:36

       Do you remember your first set?

   26. SWSteven Wright4:39

       I don't remember ... Uh, I remember the first joke was, but I don't remember the rest of it, was I said, "I, uh, went into a, a bookstore and I ta- started talking to this very French-looking girl. She was a bilingual illiterate. She couldn't read in two different languages."

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       (laughs)

   28. SWSteven Wright4:58

       And then it ...

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:00

       And that's how you started?

   30. SWSteven Wright5:01

       Yeah.
3. 5:04 – 10:27

   Finding ‘the Steven Wright style’: absurd one-liners, influences, and Boston’s killer era

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:04

      So did you always write in that style? Like, the sort of non-sequitur absurdist ...

   2. SWSteven Wright5:10

      No. See, I didn't even write anything until I went to the k- open mi- watched the show, and when I knew I was going back in two weeks. During that two weeks, I wrote things, but I had never written comedy at all.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:23

      Right, but when you first started writing comedy, it was always that style?

   4. SWSteven Wright5:26

      It was about s- 70% like that. There was more, like, normalish. Uh, I don't know why it came out like that. I mean ... (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:41

      (laughs)

   6. SWSteven Wright5:42

      I- I- You know, I was influenced by Carl and talking about everyday little things, and that's what I ... I said, "Oh, I'm gonna do that." And then the structure of a joke was from listening to Woody Allen's standup albums.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:57

      Mm.

   8. SWSteven Wright5:58

      But that, I hadn't know ... That's just how it came out.... with those two influences, plus my own mind.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:06

      Well, that's where the, it gets interesting, right? Because in your own mind, because, because you have a totally different style than anybody else in Bo- well, really, anybody else in the country. But in Boston at that time, there was, uh, a lot of guys like Lenny Clarke, and Steve Sweeney, and Don Gavin. There was all these like very, very funny comics. But-

   10. SWSteven Wright6:26

       Great, great... Every guy you mentioned was-

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:28

       Great.

   12. SWSteven Wright6:29

       ... hilar- hilarious.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:29

       Top of the food chain.

   14. SWSteven Wright6:30

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:31

       I tell everybody to this day that those days when, in the 1980s, when I lived in Boston, those were some of the best comics that have ever lived. Those guys were murderers.

   16. SWSteven Wright6:41

       I totally agree with you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       They were so good. You would go there at any given night and you'd watch Sweeney just destroy Nick's Comedy stuff. And he was so fucking good. His timing was so good, so much energy. And, you know, and it was all, so much stuff about Boston, and Boston people just fucking love that shit.

   18. SWSteven Wright7:01

       Every one of those guys is different than the other guy.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       Mike Donovan-

   20. SWSteven Wright7:05

       Mike Donovan is one of them.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       ... Kenny Rogers. Yeah.

   22. SWSteven Wright7:06

       Kenny Rogers has been so prolific.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:08

       Yeah.

   24. SWSteven Wright7:08

       Mike Donovan, unbelievably hilarious.

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:11

       Yeah, so many good guys. Lenny, I mean, Lenny Clarke-

   26. SWSteven Wright7:16

       Right, right, Lenny.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       ... is so funny. Goddamn, he's funny. And just great guys, too.

   28. SWSteven Wright7:21

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       It's just like, it's such a, was a, an, a very unusual group of artists, because they're these wild kind of partying guys, but they had like real, like rigid rules about don't be a hack, and don't be a thief, and don't be a this. And you know, and do good comedy. And they all just wanted to kill. And it was, there was no real showbiz sort of like, uh, pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It was really just being a headliner, just killing. That's all they did.

   30. SWSteven Wright7:50

       And there was no show business there. There were no agents, no producers, no one t- to say, "Oh, you should do... Why are you doing it like that? Why are you doing..." It was like being on an island. That's how I've described it. When we all started, like the club started in '79, so everyone started maybe one year before, one year later. Everyone just started at once, and we were all learning how to do it.
4. 10:27 – 16:06

   Joe’s origin story: TV standup inspiration, Kinison shock, and open-mic confidence

   1. SWSteven Wright10:27

      Now, were you living in Massachusetts?

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:29

      Yeah.

   3. SWSteven Wright10:29

      And, and-

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:29

      I was living in Newton.

   5. SWSteven Wright10:30

      ... and where did you get it in your... Why did it go into your head? Like I told you, it was, for me, it was watching The Tonight Show. How did it, the germ start?

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:39

      Well, definitely watching standup on TV. I used to love watching Richard Jeni on The Tonight Show.

   7. SWSteven Wright10:44

      Oh, he was amazing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:45

      So good. He's incredible. I was driving home one night, uh, fairly recently, a few years back. And you know how sometimes like a Bluetooth on your phone just randomly plays a song-

   9. SWSteven Wright10:55

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:55

       ... when you plug it in? It just randomly played this Jeni bit. And I was laughing so hard driving home. And, uh, I, while I was driving, I downloaded the whole album, and I just listened to the album coming home from, uh, from Orange County. And it was like, he... I just forgot. I kind of forgot how good he was. I forgot how funny he was on all the tags, and bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. He just never stopped.

   11. SWSteven Wright11:22

       He did several specials, standup specials. I saw him live in California. He's one of those guys where you laugh out loud. You know, sometimes you can watch a guy and you can think, "That's really funny." Right? But you're not really laughing out loud.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:36

       Right.

   13. SWSteven Wright11:36

       You're not-

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:36

       Right.

   15. SWSteven Wright11:37

       J- it's not a judgment. But then there's other guys where it both lines up.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:41

       Yeah.

   17. SWSteven Wright11:41

       You know, like, like Jeni and Kevin Meaney.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SWSteven Wright11:44

       You're just like, "Oh my God."

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:47

       Kevin Meaney. Yeah.

   21. SWSteven Wright11:47

       But Jeni, I mean, so prolific.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:50

       He was so prolific.

   23. SWSteven Wright11:51

       So prolific. Top guy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       He worked at, um, uh, East Side Comedy Club in Long Island. And I got there on Sunday, and the host and a couple other comics were sitting there. They looked depressed. And I'm like, "What's going on?"

   25. SWSteven Wright12:03

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:03

       And they're like, "Jeni did four different hours. He did two different hours..."... two different shows Friday night. He did one hour for the first show, totally different hour for the second show. Then he does a totally different hour for the first show Saturday, and another totally different hour-

   27. SWSteven Wright12:19

       I've never heard of such a thing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:20

       ... for the second. I never heard of such a thing.

   29. SWSteven Wright12:22

       That's incredible.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       They said he never repeated a joke. They said he did four totally different hours-
5. 16:06 – 19:05

   Why standup can’t be taught: fingerprint voices, stage emptiness, and learning by repetition

   1. SWSteven Wright16:06

      But I think, uh, a lot of... Y- you know, just 'cause someone's funny hanging out doesn't mean they could do that. I mean, you obviously have done it. But the big difference is, like if you're in a bar with someone hang-... And the TV's on and... There's a lot happening, going by. The waitress goes by, someone drops something, you c- someone says something about that, something's on the TV, something goes by, truck goes by, there's all these things. But when you go on the stage, there's nothing happening.

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:38

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SWSteven Wright16:38

      So just 'cause you can do that with your friends doesn't really mean then you could go do that, 'cause when you walk out, there's nothing.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:46

      Right. It doesn't mean that you can do it, but if you can't do that with your friends-

   5. SWSteven Wright16:52

      Oh, yeah, definitely.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:53

      ... you probably would never be able to do it.

   7. SWSteven Wright16:53

      If you don't have that-

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:54

      Yeah.

   9. SWSteven Wright16:55

      No, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       You're either funny or you're not funny. And if you can be funny with your friends-

   11. SWSteven Wright17:00

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       ... it's just a matter of like how can I figure out how to be funny-

   13. SWSteven Wright17:03

       Yes.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       ... in front of everybody else? Yeah, that's where it's tricky. And to me, the most interesting thing about the art form is that no one can tell you how to do it. You do it very different than I do it, and we both do it very different than Seinfeld does it. And Seinfeld does it different than Louie Anderson did it. It's like everybody's got their own little weird way to do standup and you kinda have to figure that out on your own.

   15. SWSteven Wright17:27

       It's like a fingerprint. Everyone's mind is like a fingerprint.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       Yeah.

   17. SWSteven Wright17:30

       You have your own fingerprint and then you gotta figure it out.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       And also, if you look at art forms that are very popular, like standup is obviously a very popular art form, people love to go see it, there's no real courses on how to do it. There's no real structure of it. Like everything else, whether it's music, songwriting, literature, fiction, non-fiction, there's all teaching. People teach people how to do it. People who've done it already, they teach you how to set up your, your stories and how to, you know... The... There's ways to learn almost every other art form. But even acting-

   19. SWSteven Wright18:07

       (sighs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:07

       ... they teach acting. You can't really teach standup. You gotta practice it in front of people. You can kinda take classes. The classes, the best thing the classes do is they get you on stage.

   21. SWSteven Wright18:18

       ... yeah, I've always... Years after I was doing it, I thought back that you're the... you are your own teacher and student at the same time.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SWSteven Wright18:26

       You're standing on the stage. You don't think of it like that because you're just trying to do it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:30

       Right.

   25. SWSteven Wright18:30

       But in hindsight... And you can only learn from doing it over and over and over and over. And your mind is soaking up like, oh, even mistakes at work, "Oh, oh, oh." Like it soak... Like everything, you need every second that works-

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:46

       Yeah.

   27. SWSteven Wright18:46

       ... and every, "Oh, that doesn't... Oh, oh, oh." All right, and we'd tape them, audio tape them at the beginning of sets, because it's happened so fast. It's like a car accident. The next thing you know, the thing is, "Oh, what? What?"

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:58

       Yeah.

   29. SWSteven Wright18:58

       And then you can like, "Oh," because some of it went better than you thought and some of it didn't go as good.

6. 19:05 – 23:30

   Steven’s joke-writing method: ‘noticing’ as a radar sweep (electrolysis pony story)

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:05

      Your w- writing process must be, uh, y- you, you have a very difficult style to write for, I would imagine-

   2. SWSteven Wright19:12

      What do you mean?

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:13

      ... because your style is, it's, uh, it's non sequiturs, and they're very... like a lot of it's very absurd. Like is it, is it hard to... like when you write, do you sit in front of a computer? Do you just come up with ideas as you're walking around? Like what's your process?

   4. SWSteven Wright19:30

      In the beginning, I would sit down and look at the paper, like look for a word to jazz my mind or look for something, and I would try to find jokes on purpose in the first six months. And then after that, like I had this thing once I was, uh, looking through the paper and, uh, it was an advertisement for electrolysis, and I thought, "What an interesting word." Just the sound of the word, what it means, both things at one... What the hell? What the hell? Right? So I made a note of that. And then, I don't know, my mind... you know, uh, because your subconscious is like a factory. It's working when you don't even know that it is.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:09

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SWSteven Wright20:10

      You're minding your own business, you're in line doing something that's... "This just in." (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:16

      (laughs)

   8. SWSteven Wright20:17

      And, and, uh, what my mind did with that was I came up... I had this thing about, um, living in an apartment building where they allowed pets, and I had a pony.

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:28

      (laughs) .

   10. SWSteven Wright20:28

       I had a Shetland pony named Nicky, and he, he was once involved in a bizarre, like, electrolysis accident. All the hair was removed except for the tail. Now, I rent him out to Hare Krishna family picnics.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       (laughs)

   12. SWSteven Wright20:45

       And that whole thing came because I saw the word electrolysis. So I would try to find things on purpose, but then after a while, I didn't... my mind was... I would just notice things because I think comedy, all art is based on noticing what's around you. And I would just... my, my mind... like I drew a lot. I, I know that you used to draw too.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SWSteven Wright21:07

       And then I would, I would draw realistically in high school and stuff, and like if you were gonna draw this cup and this, this, uh, uh, you... the two shapes and then you notice... If you're trying to draw it real, you... this shape, this shape, and then there's the shape that's in between. That's also a shape, which helps you get it accurate.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:27

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SWSteven Wright21:28

       And, but, so you know when... you don't really notice that shape unless you were trying to draw it. So I think that that exercised my mind of noticing. Then later on, uh, doing the comedy, I was already noticing, what I think I was noticing, just some people are very aware of what's around, and you know like in the tower in the... at the airport where the radar goes like this, like it just... uh, it goes like this, like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:53

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SWSteven Wright21:54

       ... and then, then there's the little beeps of the planes, like-

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:57

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SWSteven Wright21:57

       ... those are the planes. So I think my mind got like, uh, scanning like that, subconscious. Like I- I'm not going on... I don't walk down the street thinking, "I need another joke. I'm gonna go walk down that street." I'm just going around my day just doing it, but the sub... the thing is going... (whistles)

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:15

       Right, you're just scanning. (laughs)

   22. SWSteven Wright22:15

       And then it'll see... (whistles) Then it'll see a word, it's like... (whistles)

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:20

       Yeah.

   24. SWSteven Wright22:20

       Oh, oh, maybe that... Oh, okay. And then, oh. And then like, write it down, and I think of the joke. The wording comes pretty fast, like very... like in a minute, it's like... because in my mind, it can only be one way it can be written, and then I just would write it down and then, and then go on with what I was doing. But the, the noticing never stops. Don't you think what you do is... you're, you're reacting, right? You're talking about the world, but you have to really see the world.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:55

       Yeah, you have to really see the world. And I, I, I do a real similar thing, where like if there's a certain subject that I'm working on, like, uh, like all throughout the day, I'm thinking about that subject. Like if there's a new bit, it's like it's just bouncing around in my head, like, "What is going on with that?"

   26. SWSteven Wright23:12

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:13

       Why do we accept that? Why is that so weird? Like what, what... you know? And then it just, it's just always playing in the background, like my mind is trying to sort it out. My mind is trying to figure out what my angle is, you know? And then sometimes, I'll just take it on stage and just roll it out and go, "Let's see where, where this goes."

7. 23:30 – 25:59

   Workshopping onstage: pressure, evolution of bits, and audience as co-editor

   1. SWSteven Wright23:30

      Without it all figured out?

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:31

      Without it all figured out. I'll just do it in between bits that are real, so I'll do a bit that's good, like it's a solid bit, and then I'll work in that thing, and I'll just be like, "Let's see where this goes."

   3. SWSteven Wright23:41

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:42

      You know, under pressure, after a bit that kills, you get stuck in this spot. Like there's something in there, like what it... where is it?

   5. SWSteven Wright23:49

      Okay.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:49

      You know, I have like little ma- destinations that I'd like to get to, I'd like to talk about this part of it, I'd like to talk about that part of it, but let me just see.

   7. SWSteven Wright23:57

      I think because you're in front of the audience, everything's heightened-

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:00

      Yeah.

   9. SWSteven Wright24:00

      ... so there's a pressure there. So your mind is kicked into another intensity-

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:05

       Yes.

   11. SWSteven Wright24:05

       ... than if you were just, you know, at a red light.

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       Yeah.

   13. SWSteven Wright24:08

       So and you're trying to survive-... meaning get the laugh-

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:11

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SWSteven Wright24:11

       ... you try, you don't want a minute of nothing. So your brain, like, you're turning up the knobs, like, we gotta figure th- let's figure this out-

   16. JRJoe Rogan24:19

       Right.

   17. SWSteven Wright24:20

       ... and stuff.

   18. JRJoe Rogan24:20

       With all those eyes on you, like, there's something in there. I know it's in there. Let me fucking find it. You know? But p- people kinda know the process now, so the, people enjoy seeing that. Like, I've talked to people, like guests that have come back and they said, "You know, that bit, I saw that bit six months ago and now it's, like, totally different. It's amazing. Like, you figured out this and that." And yeah, yeah, it's like a process. So that, that, the fact that fans can come and check out the process and they'll see a bit and then they'll come back and see you six months later, it's like a fucking totally different thing.

   19. SWSteven Wright24:53

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan24:54

       And so it's this, like, living, breathing thing that you kinda take on stage to water.

   21. SWSteven Wright25:00

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       Where is this going?

   23. SWSteven Wright25:01

       It's true. It's...

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       And then I sit with it and I'll, I'll stare at my notes when I get home or just trying to think, like, is, am I missing something? There's another angles or another way I could... How would another person approach this? A person who didn't have this structure already set up for this bit. Maybe someone will look at it differently.

   25. SWSteven Wright25:18

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:18

       Maybe the ending should be the beginning. Maybe the beginning should be ending. You know, it's like-

   27. SWSteven Wright25:23

       You, you triggered things, it was amazing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       Oh, thank you. Thank you.

   29. SWSteven Wright25:26

       Like, just like, just you can't see anything coming and the connect-

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:33

       (laughs)
8. 25:59 – 33:52

   Buc-ee’s, Texas weirdness, and exotic animal loopholes (tigers, zebras, elk)

   1. SWSteven Wright25:59

      It just... So, we had a thing, uh, oh, when you were talking to those female comedians the other day, uh, no-

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:09

      Kim and Sarah?

   3. SWSteven Wright26:10

      Yeah, but no, it was in your act, I think. It was about the guy. Oh, shit.

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:18

      (laughs)

   5. SWSteven Wright26:19

      The oil guy. The guys with the money in Texas and they started Truck-

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:23

      Oh.

   7. SWSteven Wright26:23

      ... Truck. Was it Truck World?

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:24

      Buc-ee's. Buc-ee's.

   9. SWSteven Wright26:26

      What is it?

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:27

       Buc-ee's is like the craziest gas station ever. That's where we're supposed to talk-

   11. SWSteven Wright26:31

       Is that a real place?

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:32

       It's a real place. (laughs) You should go. It's amazing.

   13. SWSteven Wright26:35

       Is it called... Is it one, it's not a chain, is it?

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:37

       Oh, it's a chain. Yeah.

   15. SWSteven Wright26:38

       And it's called Buc-ee's?

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:39

       Yeah, B-U-C-C-E-E-S. Buc-ee's, that's Buc-ee's. It's the (laughs) biggest gas station you've ever seen. It literally doesn't even make sense. That's not even the biggest one. Yeah, that's only, like even half of it. That's not even the building. That's a small one.

   17. SWSteven Wright26:52

       Really?

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:52

       That's a little Buc-ee's 'cause that's the Buc-ee's car wash and then there's like this Buc-ee's gigantic store.

   19. SWSteven Wright26:58

       Is it only in Texas?

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:00

       I don't know.

   21. SWSteven Wright27:00

       Never even heard of it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:02

       I don't know. It's definitely-

   23. SWSteven Wright27:04

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       ... a big Texas thing. It's like a Walmart, like a huge Walmart attached to a gas station. They sell everything in there. It's fucking nuts.

   25. SWSteven Wright27:14

       (laughs) Look at that.

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:14

       It's amazing.

   27. SWSteven Wright27:15

       Look at that thing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:15

       Look at the size of it. Look at the size of that place.

   29. SWSteven Wright27:17

       Looks like an airport-

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:18

       (laughs)
9. 33:52 – 37:42

   Why Joe moved to Austin: pandemic governance, ‘freedom,’ and quality-of-life tradeoffs

   1. SWSteven Wright33:52

      So, what brought you... Why did you decide to move to Austin?

   2. JRJoe Rogan33:57

      Uh, it was during the pandemic and, um, everything in California was just really going sideways. They were, uh... There was a lot of riots, there was a lot of smash and grabs, and there was a lot of, um, really incompetent government, where they were telling people that you have to stay lo-... We couldn't even do outside shows. You couldn't do outside shows. The Comedy St-... They wouldn't let the Comedy Store do shows in the parking lot. I'm like, "This doesn't make any sense." There's in- these incompetent bureaucrats who were telling people what to do over public health decisions. They had massive control over your life all of a sudden. The mayor never had any fucking control over who worked and who didn't work. Now all of a sudden he does, and he's a moron.

   3. SWSteven Wright34:36

      But why-

   4. JRJoe Rogan34:36

      I was like, "I gotta get out of here."

   5. SWSteven Wright34:37

      ... but why Texas?

   6. JRJoe Rogan34:39

      Well, I came to Texas, uh, with some friends 'cause we were all, like, disgruntled with California.

   7. SWSteven Wright34:44

      And you've been to Texas before?

   8. JRJoe Rogan34:46

      Oh, yeah. Many, many, many, many, many, many times.

   9. SWSteven Wright34:47

      Oh, okay, so you, you had a feeling for Texas.

   10. JRJoe Rogan34:50

       I've been coming here since... I love it here.

   11. SWSteven Wright34:50

       Oh, okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan34:51

       I've always loved it.

   13. SWSteven Wright34:51

       All right, all right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan34:52

       And, uh, really what I wanted to do, I wanted to move to, like, Utah or Montana. I wanted to l- move to somewhere where it was this beautiful mountains and woods. I just wanted to... I'm like, I travel so much, I want to go somewhere that's nice and peaceful. Like, I don't want to be in cities anymore. I was like, "This city shit is bullshit." It's just too much.

   15. SWSteven Wright35:12

       That's what I did.

   16. JRJoe Rogan35:14

       Yeah, that's... I mean, we were talking about it last night. I think you're on the right track. Y- it's al- it overloads your senses. I don't think it's healthy for you. So, there was that, and then, um, it was also... This is a great town. I mean, it's an amazing place. There's only a million people there, and then a million in the outskirts. So, it's, like, really mild traffic, very friendly people, like, great restaurants, a great artist community. There's a lot of great musicians here.

   17. SWSteven Wright35:41

       Yeah, absolutely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan35:42

       And now-

   19. SWSteven Wright35:43

       I never even noticed in the airport, I've never seen this. There's singers in the airport.

   20. JRJoe Rogan35:48

       Mm-hmm.

   21. SWSteven Wright35:48

       Like, at different gates.

   22. JRJoe Rogan35:49

       Yep, yep.

   23. SWSteven Wright35:50

       That was wild.

   24. JRJoe Rogan35:51

       And legit barbecue. They got a Salt Lick at the airport.

   25. SWSteven Wright35:54

       They do?

   26. JRJoe Rogan35:55

       Yeah, it's very good. We got excited when Salt Lick was open. Yeah, the food here is incredible. But, so that was, uh... It was... But it... But the big thing was freedom.... freedom was number one because when we came here, everybody was like, restaurants were open. People were just walking around doing things. We, you know, we went out onto, uh, Lake Austin. This friend of mine who's, uh, she became a friend of mine. She was our real estate agent and she, she took us on a tour on a boat and my, my young daughters were like, "Oh my God, we wanna live here." They're like, "We wanna live on the lake, let's go." And my wife was very hesitant at first, but she took to it like a duck to water once she moved here.

   27. SWSteven Wright36:34

       Why was she hesitant? There's two different-

   28. JRJoe Rogan36:36

       It's a big change.

   29. SWSteven Wright36:36

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan36:37

       All of her friends are in LA. You know, it's hard. It's hard just packing up your shit and moving.
10. 37:42 – 44:03

    Parking tickets, tolls, and the invention of the parking meter (plus jaywalking)

    1. SWSteven Wright37:42

       I get like that over parking tickets.

    2. JRJoe Rogan37:44

       Yeah. (laughs)

    3. SWSteven Wright37:45

       Park... Seriously.

    4. JRJoe Rogan37:46

       Yeah.

    5. SWSteven Wright37:46

       Parking tickets infuriate me. It, I didn't... For years.

    6. JRJoe Rogan37:50

       Yeah.

    7. SWSteven Wright37:51

       It's like, how dare you? What do you mean? You own, you decided you own this par- this piece of the Earth and you're gonna charge me? Everything you just said I have boiled down to parking tickets.

    8. JRJoe Rogan38:04

       That drives me crazy. And you know what drives me crazy? Tolls.

    9. SWSteven Wright38:07

       Oh, yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan38:08

        When I go to New York, every time I go over those stupid fucking bridges, I get angry.

    11. SWSteven Wright38:12

        (laughs)

    12. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        I'm like, you're making me pay again to drive over the bridge? You paid for this bridge a thousand times over, you cunts.

    13. SWSteven Wright38:20

        (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan38:20

        'Cause like the whole idea in the beginning was we gotta fund this bridge, so we need to charge people money to go across the bridge. But then after a while, the funding's done.

    15. SWSteven Wright38:29

        Hmm. Yes.

    16. JRJoe Rogan38:29

        You paid for it, you fucks.

    17. SWSteven Wright38:30

        Yes.

    18. JRJoe Rogan38:31

        But now you're just addicted to charging people. So you have this massive bottleneck where all these cars just stop dead 'cause everybody's gotta go through these stupid fucking booths and you're just raking in money and just staying incompetent, st- staying with your terrible money management so everybody's angry at ya and they still just keep paying it every day 'cause there's no way around it. You gotta go on the bridge? You gotta pay. Wear that fucking, put that stupid thing over your rear view mirror so it clocks you every time and dings your credit card. Fuck. It's theft. They're a bunch of creeps. The whole idea behind it is already been passed. Like you were supposed to pay for the bridge, you paid for the bridge. Now you're just stealing. Parking spots. Fuck you.

    19. SWSteven Wright39:18

        I overreact to parking spots.

    20. JRJoe Rogan39:21

        I don't think you overreact, but I don't think you need to get violent.

    21. SWSteven Wright39:21

        To the ticket, to ticket making (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan39:25

        (laughs) Do you know Brian Holtzman? Did you see Brian Holtzman last night? Very, very funny guy and he just got here. He's a really funny guy from LA, but, uh, Brian used to be, uh, a meter maid. That's what he used to do.

    23. SWSteven Wright39:37

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan39:37

        He was like, he did, he was a comic and he did, uh, parking enforcement.

    25. SWSteven Wright39:41

        Really?

    26. JRJoe Rogan39:41

        Yeah. We were just talking about it last night that I ran into him one night. I was at the Comedy Magic Al-

    27. SWSteven Wright39:46

        He must have some stories.

    28. JRJoe Rogan39:46

        Oh, he's got great stories. He's funny. You should see him, he's very funny. You would enjoy him. He's so crazy. (laughs) Um, he does the late night spots. Like he likes to close off the show, so you know, he was on stage last night till 1:45 in the morning.

    29. SWSteven Wright40:02

        Wow.

    30. JRJoe Rogan40:03

        Yeah.
11. 44:03 – 53:46

    Driving, silence, and ‘doing nothing’ as creative fuel

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:03

       (laughs) Yeah. It's, uh ... Have you ever fucked around with autonomous cars?

    2. SWSteven Wright44:12

       I don't even know.

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:12

       You ever drive a, a Tesla?

    4. SWSteven Wright44:13

       I wouldn't never ... It drives itself, you mean?

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:16

       Yeah.

    6. SWSteven Wright44:16

       I wouldn't do that.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:18

       No?

    8. SWSteven Wright44:18

       No. You mean sit there and let it do... I mean, I might do it as a test, but I don't like the idea of it.

    9. JRJoe Rogan44:24

       Yeah.

    10. SWSteven Wright44:25

        I love to drive.

    11. JRJoe Rogan44:26

        It's very creepy.

    12. SWSteven Wright44:26

        I love it.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:27

        I do, too.

    14. SWSteven Wright44:28

        I love c- I love, I love ... I love it. It's one of my favorite things.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:31

        What do you drive?

    16. SWSteven Wright44:32

        I drive a Toyota Highlander.

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:34

        Oh, nice.

    18. SWSteven Wright44:35

        And I drive a 1986 Jeep CJ7.

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:39

        Nice.

    20. SWSteven Wright44:41

        I love going from point A to point B. There's something about moving that's good for you, at least for my mind, too.

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:48

        Yeah.

    22. SWSteven Wright44:49

        It's like, it's like there's something unwinding just by moving forward.

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:55

        I used to come up with a lot of my best ideas driving-

    24. SWSteven Wright44:58

        Yeah?

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:58

        ... with no radio on.

    26. SWSteven Wright45:00

        Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta shut it off sometimes because-

    27. JRJoe Rogan45:03

        Yeah.

    28. SWSteven Wright45:03

        ... if th- y- peop- you always got radio or phone or something, and you, sometimes you have to have nothing because nothing isn't really nothing. R- r- you gotta, like... It took me years to realize that doing nothing was really good. It was really doing something because your mind thinks differently when you're not going, when something's not going in.

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:29

        Yeah.

    30. SWSteven Wright45:29

        Like, you can really think more.
12. 53:46 – 1:00:55

    Exercise before shows: endorphins, looseness, and stage intensity as a tightrope

    1. SWSteven Wright53:46

       I have several museum jokes by accident.

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:50

       (laughs) Just by accident, yeah.

    3. SWSteven Wright53:51

       Well, I mean, I went to the museum.

    4. JRJoe Rogan53:53

       Yeah.

    5. SWSteven Wright53:53

       I didn't go to get some jokes.

    6. JRJoe Rogan53:55

       Right.

    7. SWSteven Wright53:55

       Like, see the women's, the name for the ladies room? Oh, that must be an exhibit. You know, you see the-

    8. JRJoe Rogan54:01

       Yeah.

    9. SWSteven Wright54:01

       Or where they have the heads and arms from the statues that are in all the other museums, a museum who had all heads and arms. That's 'cause I went to a museum.... you know, or like, I exercise. I, I'm a bike rider. Like, an hour a day in the spring and summer, and, and, uh, on a stationary bike in the winter, every day, 30 minutes. I'm addicted to that.

    10. JRJoe Rogan54:24

        Mm.

    11. SWSteven Wright54:24

        And that, that, like, it's a weird ... That's like a weird drug that makes you more relaxed and energetic at the same time-

    12. JRJoe Rogan54:31

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SWSteven Wright54:31

        ... with no... And, and that affects your thinking too, somehow. It's like, it's all ... I mean, I do it to feel good, but I like how it affects my mind also. Then you add coffee, and then you're outta your mind.

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:48

        (laughs) I love cardio-

    15. SWSteven Wright54:49

        So you-

    16. JRJoe Rogan54:49

        ... before shows. Like, it's one-

    17. SWSteven Wright54:51

        Oh, you do? Yeah, I do too.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:53

        If I could do like an hour of cardio before a show that night, I'm always so loose and relaxed.

    19. SWSteven Wright54:57

        Yeah. You just feel ... You're like, "Oh."

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:59

        Yeah. Like, "Hey, everything's fine."

    21. SWSteven Wright55:01

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan55:01

        Big smile on my face. Yeah. I was out to dinner with my wife once, and I just had this giant smile on my face. And she's like-

    23. SWSteven Wright55:07

        (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan55:07

        ... "What are you ... What the fuck are you doing? What's so funny?" I'm like, "I did cardio today. I feel great."

    25. SWSteven Wright55:12

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan55:12

        It's like it's a, just a, like a ... It wrings out all the tension in your body-

    27. SWSteven Wright55:16

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan55:16

        It just leaves you free.

    29. SWSteven Wright55:18

        Yeah. I have to do ... I love doing it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan55:20

        It's very good.
13. 1:00:55 – 1:09:30

    Podcasting growth: early webcams to scientists, Graham Hancock, and mind-expanding conversations

    1. SWSteven Wright1:00:55

       How long have you been doing the podcast?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

       Um, 14 years? Is it almost 14 years?

    3. SWSteven Wright1:01:02

       13 and a half, yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       13 and a half years.

    5. SWSteven Wright1:01:05

       Wow.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       Yeah, yeah.

    7. SWSteven Wright1:01:05

       Amazing.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Crazy.

    9. SWSteven Wright1:01:08

       That must be one of the first ones that you have here.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

        Uh, the first one was Adam Curry. He was number one. He's the Podfather, and then-

    11. SWSteven Wright1:01:17

        Podfather.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

        And then, um, Corolla had one-

    13. SWSteven Wright1:01:19

        Oh, yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

        ... when he left radio, and Marc Maron had one, and there was a couple other that I had heard about, but it was, uh...

    15. SWSteven Wright1:01:26

        (sighs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

        Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith had one real early on. Um, but it was, uh, fairly... Yeah, a fairly small amount of people.

    17. SWSteven Wright1:01:36

        And what-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

        Yeah, Tony.

    19. SWSteven Wright1:01:36

        What, what drew you to it?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:39

        Just having fun. Um, what drew me to it was, like, I used to like to do, uh, radio. I used to like to do, like, Opie & Anthony 'cause it was a bunch of comics-

    21. SWSteven Wright1:01:48

        Oh, yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

        ... hanging around.

    23. SWSteven Wright1:01:49

        Yeah, yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

        And, you know, it was like Jim Norton and Rich Vos. We would just hang out, and talk shit, and just laugh, and it was so much fun. I would look forward to doing it every time I went to New York. I couldn't wait to do the morning radio 'cause I get to hang with these comedians and just laugh.

    25. SWSteven Wright1:02:01

        Jim Norton, Jim Norton's hilarious.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

        He's the best. I love him.

    27. SWSteven Wright1:02:04

        (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

        But he, it's like, it was a camaraderie thing. It was a fun thing. We just would always leave there. Like, Ari Shaffir and I would do it all to- together all the time. And we would leave, and we'd just be laughing, like, "Wah." It was just so much fun. And then, the idea, uh, came... I'd s- I'd seen, uh, Anthony Cumio from Opie & Anthony. He had his own show that he was doing in his basement online, and Tom Green had his own show online. So, I was watching a few other people do things, and I was like, "Why don't I just try something? Just, like, do... Just have a webcam show. Just do it just for f- for the fucking fun of it. Like, just let's see what happens." We started doing that.

    29. SWSteven Wright1:02:41

        You were doing it with your friend?

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:43

        Yeah, my friend, Brian. Um, and, uh, then I would bring in comedians like Tom Segura and Joey Diaz and Duncan Trussell and Ari Shaffir. And then it just became all of a sudden I have guests, and all of a sudden I have scientists, and all of a sudden I have authors, and psychologists, and physicians. And it was weird. It, it just, like, slowly became this thing that it is now.
14. 1:09:30 – 1:13:23

    Elon Musk episode, AI fears, and the unsettling pace of the near future

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:09:30

       ... Elon Musk was a big one. That was a huge one, 'cause I got him to smoke pot.

    2. SWSteven Wright1:09:32

       You had him in here too?

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:09:33

       (laughs) Yeah, I got him ... I got him to smoke weed.

    4. SWSteven Wright1:09:36

       In here?

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:09:36

       Yeah, 'cause we were drinking. We were ... It was like, we were having a couple whiskies, and we're t- ... I wanted to loosen him up, 'cause he's very intense. I mean, his brain is ... Like, you can tell when you're talking to him-

    6. SWSteven Wright1:09:47

       (laughs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:09:47

       ... his brain is working on, like, five different things while he's talking. It's like a different kind of thinking.

    8. SWSteven Wright1:09:53

       (laughs)

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:09:54

       So, we were drinking a little bit, loosening up, and then I sparked up a joint, and it became a giant issue, 'cause he took a hit.

    10. SWSteven Wright1:10:00

        Oh, I remember that.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:10:01

        And the s- stock price of Tesla dropped, like, 6%. (laughs)

    12. SWSteven Wright1:10:05

        It did? (laughs)

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:10:07

        Yes.

    14. SWSteven Wright1:10:07

        (laughs)

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:10:07

        It went back up. I think it went past where it was the next day, but, you know, people panic on those things.

    16. SWSteven Wright1:10:12

        It went back-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:10:12

        And he almost lost his-

    18. SWSteven Wright1:10:13

        It went back up when he wasn't high anymore.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:10:15

        Exactly.

    20. SWSteven Wright1:10:15

        He's like, "Wait, wait, wait."

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:10:16

        They're like, "It's okay, he can make decisions now."

    22. SWSteven Wright1:10:18

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:10:18

        And then, you know, it was, uh ... There was also an issue with, uh, top secret clearance. Because even though it's legal in Mass- in California, weed was, where we were, um, it's not legal federally.

    24. SWSteven Wright1:10:29

        Yeah, it's weird.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:10:29

        So, here he's involved in this thing that's illegal, and he's also involved in NASA. He's also involved in top secret rocket programs. You know? 'Cause he's got SpaceX. And they're like, "Hey, motherfucker. What are you doing over there?"

    26. SWSteven Wright1:10:43

        (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:10:43

        (laughs)

    28. SWSteven Wright1:10:43

        Was ... Did he smoke, uh-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:10:44

        (sniffs)

    30. SWSteven Wright1:10:45

        ... in, in his, in his private life anyway?
15. 1:13:23 – 1:21:34

    Native American history and the ‘Heyoka’ sacred clown: comedy’s cultural role

    1. SWSteven Wright1:13:23

       I love the photographs out there of the, of the, uh, the Indians out there.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:13:29

       Oh, that's Greg Overton. Yeah. Greg Overton is this amazing artist, and he's, uh, done a, a bunch of these incredible Native American, uh, art pieces. And this area, (clears throat) in particular was rich with Native American history, because it was a very, very fertile area. Because of all the lakes and all the rivers and all the wildlife.

    3. SWSteven Wright1:13:49

       Mm. Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:13:49

       So there's arrowheads everywhere out here. All over the place. I have a friend who has a ranch, and he's pulled thousands of arrowheads from his ranch. They do these excavations where they, they, um, know, like, the areas where they hunted a lot, you know, where there's a lot of, like, wildlife, and they, they dig into the ground and they sift through it, and he finds these incredible points. He's found Clovis points, he's found, like, Comanche arrowheads. It's amazing, amazing stuff.

    5. SWSteven Wright1:14:18

       Yeah. Tremendous.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:14:19

       Yeah.

    7. SWSteven Wright1:14:19

       Do you know that photographer? Has he passed away or what?

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:14:22

       The artist? No. There's a, there's-

    9. SWSteven Wright1:14:24

       You know, the guy that took the big pictures.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:14:25

        The... Oh, the photographs.

    11. SWSteven Wright1:14:26

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:14:27

        The photographs are of Quanah Parker. Quanah Parker is the last Comanche chief.

    13. SWSteven Wright1:14:34

        Oh. Oh.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:14:34

        So, the Comanches were the people that were in control of the plains, in control of Texas, and they were the most fierce tribe, and they were the most difficult to get past. And they, th- they were the reason why people couldn't settle this area. It wasn't until the Texas Rangers figured out how, how to combat them on their own terms. They cold camped, they never used fires, they dressed like, like normal civilians, and they kind of lived like Indians. And they w- ran around, and that's Quanah Parker. So, Quanah Parker, his mother, Cynthia Ann Parker, was kidnapped by the Comanche when she was really young, she was nine years old. Her family was murdered in front of her, and they took her in, and she eventually became, um, the wife of the chief, and they had a baby. So she was white, and she had a half Native American baby, who was Quanah Parker, who was the last Comanche chief. And he was big for a Comanche, and just, like, very, very fierce guy. That photograph of her, uh, sucking, uh, having her, her kid, um, sucking on her nipple is a very famous photo, because she would do that in front of people, and they thought that was, like, so uncivilized-

Episode duration: 2:30:20