Joe Rogan Experience #2002 - Amanda Feilding

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (energetic music) Thank you very much for doing this, I really appreciate it.

   3. AFAmanda Feilding0:15

      Thank you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      It's lovely to meet you, and, uh, I really, really appreciate your life's work. I mean, I think what you've done has been really remarkable, particularly because of the time period in which you embarked in it. I mean, you sort of got involved in psychedelics and psychedelic research at the very beginning of it and when it was extremely controversial and very difficult t- to do research.

   5. AFAmanda Feilding0:43

      Well, I actually got involved in it when it was incredible fun. And, um, I was incredibly lucky with my timing, I think.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:56

      Hmm.

   7. AFAmanda Feilding0:57

      Because I was very attracted to, um, the other side, if you like, the mystical, because I lived in this very, very isolated spot and one had nothing much to do but kind of mooch around in a beautiful place, have mystical experiences, dream of the future.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:19

      Is that your phone?

   9. AFAmanda Feilding1:20

      Yes.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       There we go. (laughs)

   11. AFAmanda Feilding1:21

       Oh. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       When did you first get involved or even interested in, uh, what you would call mystical experiences? I'll let you sh-

   13. AFAmanda Feilding1:29

       Ah, sorry, sorry, sorry.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       No worries, no worries.

   15. AFAmanda Feilding1:31

       Whoopsie. I don't know how to turn these things off.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       Do you want me to turn it on mute for you?

   17. AFAmanda Feilding1:36

       Yes, please.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       Okay. These wacky kids today and their devices. All right, here you go.

   19. AFAmanda Feilding1:42

       Oh, yes, sorry about that.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:43

       No worries. No worries at all. Um, so-

   21. AFAmanda Feilding1:47

       Uh, yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       ... how old were you when you first got interested in...

   23. AFAmanda Feilding1:51

       Um, very young, I should say. Um, I came, uh, I had a kind of in the... I, I w- grew up in this very isolated place. Um, I was very, very close to my father, who came back from the war a diabetic, and he was a very eccentric person. And so from three, I was his carer. So I was like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       Three years old?

   25. AFAmanda Feilding2:19

       Yeah, which was a lovely role. I mean, I was his little pet dog. I went everywhere with him. (laughs) I adored him, and he adored me. And so... And he was a very, um, out of the... He wasn't in normal society at all.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:33

       How so?

   27. AFAmanda Feilding2:34

       He just wasn't. He was a eccentric and a charming, um, did his own thing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Hmm.

   29. AFAmanda Feilding2:42

       Artist, um, a farmer, but not really a farmer. He couldn't bear really farming, but, um, yeah. Anyway, so, um, and I suppose spiritually, I had three... my mother was a Catholic, so I grew up a Catholic. And then he was whatever agnostic is. Yes, just nothing except a thinker. And, um, then his best friend, who was his kind of... he picked up as, um, he... the person who did all his work when he was at university called Bertie, um, was... became a Buddhist monk, a rather famous Buddhist monk. But... So he was a big influence in the absence 'cause he was my godfather. And so I had these three influences. And so I kind of dreamt of doing magic, mystical things in the world.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       Hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Hmm. …

   1. AFAmanda Feilding15:00

      more than any other animal has, um, done it, which is to direct the blood where it most needs to go. Obviously, all animals do that. They have the power to send the blood where it's most important to survival or whatever. And I think that through the use of the conditioned sound, the word, we learned to control that process more than any other animal.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      Hmm.

   3. AFAmanda Feilding15:30

      And over the millennia, we kind of built up our power to do that. So, I think that's the secret of why humans, you know, which is a talking, upright talking ape, got control of the whole game, because of our creation of language which enabled us to do all these incredible things we do.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:53

      Yes.

   5. AFAmanda Feilding15:53

      But it also has a disadvantage, that our basic state is slightly low in blood in the dominant organ.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:06

      Hmm.

   7. AFAmanda Feilding16:07

      So we have to keep this str- this mechanism of tight control in where the blood is distributed, and that has evolved with the ego, which is essential. I mean, we wouldn't survive without the ego to kind of, um, direct the blood where it's most needed. Um, people who lose their ego, and in the '60s when people took large doses of LSD, as it was then, every day, sometimes they lost their ego. They flipped out.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:42

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AFAmanda Feilding16:43

      And there was one occasion of someone we knew who was in Ibiza, and he'd flipped out and he put the key in his, the lock to open the door, someone to say goodnight to him. He put the key in the lock and left him. And then in the morning, he was still there with the key in the door because the head hadn't told him, "Turn the key to open the door." (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       (laughs)

   11. AFAmanda Feilding17:08

       So there. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       Wow.

   13. AFAmanda Feilding17:09

       So we need the words to keep us, you know...

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       Yes.

   15. AFAmanda Feilding17:13

       ... under control.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Yeah.

   17. AFAmanda Feilding17:15

       So, it, the words have made us what we are, this incredible animal who can, um, you know, have a nuclear war if we want or know all the atoms in the body, all of those brilliant things we do, which is amazing, but we're also obviously a very deeply faulted animal at some point. We're, um, you know, neurotic, psychotic, psycho- you know...

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:46

       Mm-hmm.

   19. AFAmanda Feilding17:46

       Um, all of those things because of this, um, shortage of blood and then the dependent on the meaning of the word. So if we have a terrible conditioning, which a lot of people do, who has.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:02

       Yes.

   21. AFAmanda Feilding18:05

       Um, the, the, the separation from reality is, in a sense, in the meaning of the word.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:12

       Mm.

   23. AFAmanda Feilding18:13

       Um, so the danger of our society now, in a sense, is we're getting further and further away from nature, in a sense. And that, in a way, is why psychedelics can be a very useful medicine, because they increase the connectivity with the senses, with the, with the internal bodily senses and also the outside perceptual senses. Um, so I actually think that we're entering a kind of new possible age, and that's why for fun I call it the psychedelic age, because for the first time, we've got or are getting the knowledge by which we can actually understand the brain better, and understand how, um, we can alter the volume of blood in the brain, which is giving the brain energy. The, the whole thing-

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:19

       Mm.

   25. AFAmanda Feilding19:19

       ... is about energy. The more energy we have, the more parts of the brain can function simultaneously. And, um, that obviously can be very, um, creative, stimulating, um, empathic, by just having more of the brain functioning. Um, and so I think that, uh, the knowledge of psychedelics... And when I say psychedelics, I don't actually mean necessarily psychedelics, 'cause as we all know, one can get these experiences endogenously through exercise or, um-

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:04

       Holotropic breathing.

   27. AFAmanda Feilding20:05

       ... holotropic breathing, exactly.

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:07

       Yeah.

   29. AFAmanda Feilding20:07

       Or breathing exercise. I mean, all the spiritual training all knew that. That's what they were doing in the spiritual disciplines-

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       Mm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. AFAmanda Feilding30:00

      Study, and the first study we did was using psilocybin, and then we saw that... I wanted to do LSD, but we couldn't do LSD in those days. Um, it had to be psilocybin, and as... no one knows what psilocybin is, how it's spelled, what, what it means. It's not so taboo.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AFAmanda Feilding30:18

      So we got permission.And, um, I wanted to do brain imaging to look into a hypothesis that what they do is increase the volume of blood in the, in the brain capillaries.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:33

      Hmm.

   5. AFAmanda Feilding30:33

      And hopefully with MRI one would see that, I thought. But anyway, what we did see in the first study we did with, uh, psilocybin, was a decrease of blood in the, um, default mode network, which is a modern expression of the ego.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      Hmm.

   7. AFAmanda Feilding30:52

      Or part of the ego. And that was very interesting because the default mode network, i.e. the ego, is hyperactive underlying psychological, um, conditions like depression or anxiety or addiction or all of those things have a hyperactive ego saying, "I need a drink, I'm so depressed." So there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:19

      Yes.

   9. AFAmanda Feilding31:19

      And we saw that psilocybin lowers the blood supply to that part of the brain.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       Hmm.

   11. AFAmanda Feilding31:27

       And so then actually we got a government grant to help us do the next phase of the study. So, I think i- it's very important showing how, 'cause as we all know we're in a epidemic of mental illness now.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       Yes.

   13. AFAmanda Feilding31:47

       Getting ever more. And rather surprisingly and in a way rather ironically, science which has been so determined to prove that the spiritual is an old man in the sky and it's, I think it's total rubbish, which it finally has done, um, now at the very center of the new healing, i.e. psychedelic-assisted therapy, is the mystical experience. And what we showed is the people who underwent what is then categorized as a mystical experience, i.e. a loosening of the ego, a feeling of unity, those are the ones who have the best outcomes of overcoming their depression.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:35

       Hmm.

   15. AFAmanda Feilding32:36

       So it's rather a beautiful little, um, ironical twist.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       Yes.

   17. AFAmanda Feilding32:43

       That now suddenly the psychedelics are at the center of this new approach to healing. And I think the healing of psychedelics goes much, much farther than what we've touched on so far, which is, um, the psychologically-based conditions. I, I think it can be very, very useful in different doses 'cause what is so wonderful about psychedelics is they have different, totally different effects in the different dose.

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:17

       Right.

   19. AFAmanda Feilding33:19

       And at the, um, mini/micro dose, um, I, I'm beginning to have evidence and I'm just starting a study which shows amazing potential results of micro dose for Alzheimer's.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:37

       Really?

   21. AFAmanda Feilding33:38

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:38

       Interesting.

   23. AFAmanda Feilding33:40

       Absolutely amazing, remarkable.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:42

       Really?

   25. AFAmanda Feilding33:42

       Yeah. And-

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:43

       I was watching a video yesterday on cannabis and Parkinson's.

   27. AFAmanda Feilding33:47

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:47

       It was incredible.

   29. AFAmanda Feilding33:48

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:49

       There was a gentleman who had horrible loss of control of his body and this shaking.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. AFAmanda Feilding45:00

      It increases anti-inflammatory. It increases tolerance to pain. Um, vigilance. You know-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AFAmanda Feilding45:11

      ... all of these very valuable qualities-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      Yeah.

   5. AFAmanda Feilding45:13

      ... in a microdose.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Yeah.

   7. AFAmanda Feilding45:15

      And we could be using that with all sorts of indications which need actually more energy to kind of overcome certain d- deficits.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:27

      And also it's a therapy application.

   9. AFAmanda Feilding45:29

      Yes.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:29

       Because you do it, and you're essentially completely sober.

   11. AFAmanda Feilding45:32

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:33

       In, in the sense of you can communicate, you see things clearly-

   13. AFAmanda Feilding45:36

       Yes.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       ... everything is fine.

   15. AFAmanda Feilding45:37

       Yes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       But you have achieved a, a very elevated state.

   17. AFAmanda Feilding45:40

       Absolutely. But you say everyone can do it. It's only those very few who know how... I kn- I come across innumerable people who I, I know someone who you know, who has terrible migraine.

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       Hmm.

   19. AFAmanda Feilding45:56

       And, um, he had a microdose of LSD, and it cured it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       Hmm.

   21. AFAmanda Feilding46:03

       And he has terrible problems in getting it. And, um, it's not easy to get.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       No. Oh, no, it's not.

   23. AFAmanda Feilding46:09

       So, do you see what I mean? I mean for them-

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       Yes.

   25. AFAmanda Feilding46:11

       And a lot of people don't want to have to go onto the dark web.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       Right.

   27. AFAmanda Feilding46:14

       I don't know how- I have no idea how you do the dark w- Do you know what I mean? (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       Right.

   29. AFAmanda Feilding46:18

       You know?

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       And what you're opening yourself up to when you get on the dark web, yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. AFAmanda Feilding1:00:00

      the restoration at the point of trepanation is allowing that expansion on the heartbeat to the full expansion of the systolic pressure, which the child has until it starts to close over, kind of 13 onwards, the child comes down. 21 is average, the skull closes. And that's often when the mental problems start, after 21.

   2. NANarrator1:00:24

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AFAmanda Feilding1:00:24

      Psychosis and all of those things. Um, you're just at a slightly lower level in terms of energy for the brain. And what I want to do, it's very easy research to do, trepanation, because people are doing it in hospitals every day by the thousand at any brain operation, first you have to trepan the skull.

   4. NANarrator1:00:47

      Right.

   5. AFAmanda Feilding1:00:47

      So it's happening all the time.

   6. NANarrator1:00:49

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AFAmanda Feilding1:00:50

      So we could very easily actually, I work with some very top level, um-... scientist in Mexico, and I want to get that study going again. And particularly doing it for headaches and migraine, because, um, it used historically, in my father's encyclopedia, which is whatever, 1912, I can't remember when it was, something like that. Um, it said trepanations, blah, blah, blah have been done throughout history and, um, it is still currently being done with apparent success for the treatment of mental conditions, migraine and da, da, da.

   8. NANarrator1:01:28

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AFAmanda Feilding1:01:29

      So until, um, in the first World War, they did the first lobotomy and that stopped trepanation as just an old wives' tale. So in a sense, they threw out the baby with the bathwater.

   10. NANarrator1:01:44

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AFAmanda Feilding1:01:45

       And I think that there is something, um, it's quite easy to do so I'm, um, uh, my, I'm trying to find the possibilities and I really want to do this research, um, with trepanation. Um, funny enough, years ago, I was at Burning Man and I had a campaign, um, uh, what was it? Paulo, Paulo was an old friend of mine and he got a lot of rather important people to sign up that they wanted to be trepanned. And we were going to do, you know, so getting people trepanned legally-

   12. NANarrator1:02:23

       Mm-hmm.

   13. AFAmanda Feilding1:02:23

       ... in a research program. But it never happened. But, um, what I want to say is that, uh, for instance, Jamie, my husband, got trepanned, and, um-

   14. NANarrator1:02:38

       How long ago did he do that?

   15. AFAmanda Feilding1:02:41

       How long ago?

   16. NANarrator1:02:43

       How long ago did he do it?

   17. AFAmanda Feilding1:02:44

       Um, long time ago. I mean, soon after we got together. And very difficult to find, we were l- uh, looking for someone in Egypt and found a wonderful surgeon there actually-

   18. NANarrator1:02:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. AFAmanda Feilding1:02:58

       ... who did it, uh, who was very interested in the kind of mathematics of, uh, um, pyramids and things. And, um, he had terrible headaches all his life. He lost a day or two a week-

   20. NANarrator1:03:13

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AFAmanda Feilding1:03:13

       ... on headaches. After his trepanation, he, he didn't have headaches.

   22. NANarrator1:03:17

       Wow.

   23. AFAmanda Feilding1:03:18

       And I think it just gives back to the body and the brain that extra pulsation which means, I mean, you have it from all that exercise you do, so constantly you're getting that extra blood to the brain through your exercise. Um, but it, for those of us who don't do all that exercise, it's good to have alternative ways of keeping the blood going.

   24. NANarrator1:03:45

       That's got to be a big factor in the runner's high.

   25. AFAmanda Feilding1:03:49

       Yeah.

   26. NANarrator1:03:49

       'Cause in runner's high-

   27. AFAmanda Feilding1:03:51

       Yeah.

   28. NANarrator1:03:51

       ... and they, they achieve these states of elevated-

   29. AFAmanda Feilding1:03:54

       Yeah.

   30. NANarrator1:03:54

       ... consciousness through running.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00

   Yeah, yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

   2. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:00

      Yeah, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:01

      I- if you don't mind, when you had your own personal experience with trepanation-

   4. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:06

      ... what was that like?

   6. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:08

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:08

      What, what did it do for you?

   8. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:11

      Yeah, um, it was, um, sorry can I drink my water?

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:15

      Sure.

   10. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:16

       Um, I remember, I mean, no one wants to drill a hole in their head on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon (laughs) .

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15:27

       Right.

   12. AFAmanda Feilding1:15:27

       I can tell you, it is not something... I'm a very cautious person. And so, I, I had a deep interest in it because I had very deep understanding of the hypothesis of, um, blood supply, and I was interested in researching it. Then, um, um, my partner, Joey Mellon, um, at that time, he was very keen on trepanning himself, and he, uh, was a second son so he kind of was a bit more casual, cavalier about it than I was, and so had quite a few missed shots.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:16:16

       Oh no.

   14. AFAmanda Feilding1:16:17

       (laughs) Before he finally got through. And, um, funnily enough, then I did notice a difference and the difference is very subtle. You really have to know a person to notice it. But how I'd express it is, it slightly lowers the neurotic characteristics, if you see what I mean.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:16:42

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   16. AFAmanda Feilding1:16:43

       They become, I mean, they don't d- they don't eliminate them in any way, but it lowers it. And so, having seen the difference, 'cause Bart was trepanned before I knew him, so I never experienced the change. But when I saw the change in Joey, I thought, "Well, it does make a difference." So, I had thought I'd find a doctor. So I'd spent four years looking for a doctor to trepan me. Um, and I had people who said they would, nearly, and then they said, "Oh, God, then does it have a hole in his own head. He would have given us one." Or-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:17:17

       (laughs)

   18. AFAmanda Feilding1:17:17

       (laughs) Or, you know, and, "Oh, it could be bad for my career and Harley Street if it came out, or if you died."

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:17:24

       Right.

   20. AFAmanda Feilding1:17:24

       Or, you know, whatever.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:17:25

       Yes.

   22. AFAmanda Feilding1:17:26

       And so it didn't happen. So then I thought, "Well, I'm a sculptor. I'll sculpt my own skull and, and see what happens." So, I really studied it because I'm a very, very cautious person and in London, strangely, the, the shop was called Down Brothers, it's off Harley Street, and has all the instrumentation for trepanation. Very early, old shop actually. And charming staff there who showed me in detail how you trepan 'cause I went in as an interested observer.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:17:58

       Mm-hmm.

   24. AFAmanda Feilding1:17:59

       And so, I learned how to do it very cautiously. There are three layers of bone and et cetera, et cetera. I learned how to do it, so I felt competent to do it. And that, that took quite a long time, deciding I was competent and confident I could, um, do it. So I decided to make a film of it because I thought that what can separate me from the unpleasantness of doing such a silly thing. And so I made... Uh, funnily enough, my great aunt just died and had given me 70 pounds and I bought a lovely little movie Super 8 camera and s- set it up. And I had my beloved Birdie always with me. So (laughs) he, he was the observer of this thing. And there was all sorts of stories which I won't waste the time, but it was amazing 'cause, because we were asked to a party by rather kind of Guardian journalists, uh, top journalists in England for the Saturday night, I wa- had been planning on doing it on the Sunday, but I moved it forward. So, I thought it would be good publicity for the movement if, uh...I, I, um... anyway, I moved it forward. And then there was the electricity strike in England. So if I hadn't moved it forward, the electricity would've been cut.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:19:25

       Oh.

   26. AFAmanda Feilding1:19:26

       Which was just a kind of good little trick of beating fate-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:19:30

       Mm-hmm.

   28. AFAmanda Feilding1:19:30

       ... to do it. So anyway, I did it very, very carefully with a hand trepan in the mirror. Perfect little operation.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:19:38

       What kind... was it a drill?

   30. AFAmanda Feilding1:19:40

       Drill, electric drill. But I used a ball with a flat bottom so it couldn't damage the membrane 'cause obviously what one's frightened of is damaging the membrane surrounding the brain.
7. 1:30:00 – 1:40:13

   Yes, and very much…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:30:00

   2. AFAmanda Feilding1:30:00

      Yes, and very much associated with religious practice-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:30:05

      Mm-hmm.

   4. AFAmanda Feilding1:30:06

      ... basically. Um, whatever, you know, very often, funny enough, there's, in Mongolia, some trepanned skulls and nearby is a very beautiful, this is very early, I forget, BC, long, 700 maybe, a little beautiful basket with cannabis, rather high THC cannabis in it. I mean, I think they go together, um, the trepanation, you know, like in, um, Mexico, they were, there were lots of trepanations, and they went with, uh, the kind of spiritual practices.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:30:46

      It's very fascinating to me that from the moment human beings have discovered altered states of consciousness, whenever that was, that it's always been a part of this desire to sort of escape the confines of modern consciousness or of natural consciousness.

   6. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:06

      Uh, yeah. It's to kind of slightly expand.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:31:08

      Yes.

   8. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:09

      Slightly get back the childhood experience.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:31:12

      Mm, yeah.

   10. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:13

       I think that-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:31:13

       Joy, wonder.

   12. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:14

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:31:14

       Yeah.

   14. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:14

       Joy-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:31:15

       Yeah.

   16. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:15

       ... wonder. I do think it's that, and I think it's still that, and I think that's a very healthy urge.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:31:22

       Yes.

   18. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:23

       And I think therefore we should, I really s- (laughs) seriously think we should do-... research on trepanation, which I can very easily do. It, it just needs ethical approval. That's the only problem.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:31:37

       Mm-hmm. Do you think-

   20. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:38

       Um-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:31:38

       ... that it's warranted? Uh, do you think that the use of psychedelics and, uh, psychedelic therapy can replace that? That it's not necessary?

   22. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:47

       Um, no, I don't think it replaces it. I think they're, as they were in the ancient times, they're, they're complementary.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:31:55

       Mm-hmm.

   24. AFAmanda Feilding1:31:56

       They're, they're bo- both moving in the same direction of trying to increase the energy supply to the brain.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:32:06

       Yeah.

   26. AFAmanda Feilding1:32:06

       Basically. And I think that's very key for our future survival, because at the moment, I think we're at a very critical time, because our artificial intelligence is getting greater than our own.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:32:28

       Yeah.

   28. AFAmanda Feilding1:32:29

       Et cetera, et cetera. There's all sorts of forces which, which kind of build the danger up.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:32:38

       Yes.

   30. AFAmanda Feilding1:32:38

       So, we need internal growth to balance that technological growth.

Episode duration: 2:35:45