Joe Rogan Experience #2043 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin are the hosts of the podcast and YouTube program "TRIGGERnometry." www.triggerpod.co.uk

Joe RoganhostKonstantin KisinguestFrancis Fosterguest

Jun 27, 20243h 37mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,000 words

0:00 – 2:17
Intro
1. JRJoe Rogan
  (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
2. NANarrator
  The Joe Rogan Experience.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Uh, when you have headphones on in a video game, like, you can hear things behind you.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  You can hear things in front of you.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, you, you get a sense of where they are.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  That's one of the ... Goddamn, those things are addictive.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, man, I'm a gamer.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  They are so addictive.
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  But that's, that's why, 'cause, like, the- they, they have ... It's so immersive now, you know? Like-
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Are you into video games?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, my God, I have a real problem. I can't play 'em. I literally can't play 'em. I can play pool, right? 'Cause-
19. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... pool, I'm addicted to that. But pool, to me, is like a mind exercise. It's like a concentration exercise as much as it is a game. Like, it's all about, like, everything has to move together-
21. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  ... in perfect sens- synchronicity. And when I'm playing video games, I'm just absorbed in this, like, adrenaline-fueled chaos of graphics and sounds and explosions.
23. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's just way too good.
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
26. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the problem. You don't wanna do anything else. You just wanna fucking go crazy and play video games all day.
28. KKKonstantin Kisin
  There's this game, uh, I play, Escape from Tarkov, that I just, uh, I- I shouldn't be allowed to play it.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
30. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
2:17 – 4:30
Do you let your kids play Roblox
1. KKKonstantin Kisin
2. JRJoe Rogan
  They play games, yeah. But fortunately ... Oh, one's i- one's really into Roblox.
3. FFFrancis Foster
  What's Robilox?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Roblox, R-O-B-O-L- or B-L-O-X. I think that's what it is, right? Um, i- it's just like, they have these little worlds they create and they run around with their friends in there. It's like, it seems like fun. You just have to limit the amount of time they do it.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  And you have to explain to them, like, don't just let 'em figure out it's addictive. Explain to them that it's addictive.
7. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm. Yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Explain to them that there's things that you're gonna wanna get really good at that won't help you.
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Yes. (laughs) You know?
10. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a great way of looking at it.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  Because, like, I had a friend, and he was, uh, one of the guys who was the, one of the managers of The Comedy Store. Super awesome guy. And, uh, he was hooked on EverQuest. You know that game?
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  No.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Remember that game? Remember that game, Jamie?
14. NANarrator
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  There was a, like, m- massive old online multiplayer game, you're a wizard, you're casting spells and shit, that kind of thing.
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  And one day I'll never forget. We were all standing around in The Comedy Store bar, and he was pale, pale like paper.
18. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Like he hadn't been out of the house in days. Like, he just, his eyes were sunk into his head.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  He goes, "I am so good at making money in the game and so bad at doing it in real life."
22. FFFrancis Foster
  Hmm.
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Wow.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  I was like, "Whoa." I was like, "Okay, you've put all your energy t- into getting really good at something that doesn't do you any good, unless you're gonna be a professional, which they do have."
25. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  That's a hard thing to say to a kid, "Don't be, don't play video games."
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  If then you find out how much video game players are making.
29. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right. It's like, "Don't start a podcast." (laughs)
30. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
4:30 – 7:00
Instant gratification vs deferred gratification
1. FFFrancis Foster
  computer games are instant gratification, wher- ... And that's how you get success in a computer game. But if you think about life, life, how to become successful is basically deferred gratification.
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And there's another level to it, which is, in a computer game, rewards are linear.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You, you work for a bit, you get a reward.
7. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You work for a bit, you get a reward. You work for a bit, you g-
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But life isn't like that. In life, you work for a bit, you get fucking k- kicked to shit for, for, for years sometimes, right? You gotta work and work and work, and sometimes it's gonna be really shitty for a long time. And then there may be a reward or they may not.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Sometimes the work is the reward itself, right? So that, uh, is ... In some ways, it actually changes how you think about achieving things-
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... and doing things as well, which is ... You know, I have sometimes found that helpful, because you kind of know if you work, you get a reward. But sometimes i- it can mess with your reward system as well, I think, you know?
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, if you look at what video games do, it, it encourages you to spend as much time doing them as possible.
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Because the more you do them, the more whatever you're doing you a- acquire.
18. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? If that, that's kind of the case with real life ... Well, think about, like, stockbrokers.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Think about those kind of folks. Folks are, you know, you know, just in it trying to make money, just trying to figure out what to buy and what to sell. And they're ... It's all ... For them, it's all numbers.
22. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  So they must be, like, addicted to these numbers. Like, you're probab- they're probably super addicted to, like, seeing their bank account and seeing their hedge fund, seeing what do, what do they have, like how much, how much ... "I need more than that."
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hmm.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? Like, you, you compare yourself, and you, you read the list of the richest people in the world. "Oh, this guy's got 200 billion. Holy shit, I gotta do better."
26. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs) You know what I thought, how do you keep going once you got to, like, a billion? How do you motivate yourself to, like, make more? You've got more money than you-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Unless what you're doing is what you enjoy doing-
28. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  ... which is where Elon falls into that category.
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
7:00 – 8:45
Making money is like gambling
1. JRJoe Rogan
  if you think about, like, making money, what is really making money? It's the deal. And actually-
2. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you just get addicted to the deal.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's a good point.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? It's like a form of gambling. "I'm gonna try this tactic, but no, they pushed back on here. But I'm gonna do this-"
6. FFFrancis Foster
  Right.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  "... and now I'm gonna do that. And then, and then maybe if we try that, then this is gonna happen." And then you make the deal, and boom, you get the dopamine. Yeah, that makes sense.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That makes sense. I know some hedge fund guys who love doing it, aft- you know, after the first billion too.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, if they really enjoy that game, I guess.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, I guess it's kinda like playing, you know, Magic: The Gathering or something.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, you, you have t- I mean, it is a game. You're, you're, you're playing it to win it.
14. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. But social media's a game.
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yes.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  And it's, it's a game a lot like video games-
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... where it's like you're really not getting anything out of this.
21. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
22. JRJoe Rogan
  And-
23. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
24. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and you're probably losing a lot of your time doing it.
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
26. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  I suppose with people like us, we're building profile and, you know, c- you know, connections. I've met-
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
29. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... so many amazing people, actually, through social media, you know.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, for sure. For sure. We're all on it.
8:45 – 9:40
Twitter Arrests
1. FFFrancis Foster
  many people like that. There's one guy, I'm not gonna mention his name, but he li- he lives in Asia and he's always commenting about America. And I'm like, "Mate, should you not be commenting about your own country instead of clipping riots in America?"
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, he, he could get killed. So ... (laughs)
3. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
5. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
6. JRJoe Rogan
  You know?
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  He's displaced protester.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, good fucking luck tweeting bad shit about China if you're in China.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, they, they got that pretty locked down.
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Oh, yeah.
12. FFFrancis Foster
  Oh.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, they do.
14. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, they do.
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, and there's, uh, several countries that y- have arrested people for tweets, you know, which is-
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Well, we come from one of them.
19. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, I know.
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
22. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  You, you guys do. You do.
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You do, yeah.
26. KKKonstantin Kisin
  2018, 3,000 people, man.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  3,000 people got arrested for tweeting bad things?
28. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Not tweeting, but social media posts, yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Whew.
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
9:40 – 12:38
Examples of Arrests
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. FFFrancis Foster
  Uh, yeah. I mean, the, the most famous example is Count Dankilla, the internet comedian-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
4. FFFrancis Foster
  ... where he taught-
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
6. FFFrancis Foster
  ... his pug to do a Nazi salute. But there's been lots of others. You know, examples, you know, people ma- ... There's a tragic fire that happened in London called the Grenfell Fire. It was awful. People were literally burnt to death in this tower block.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
8. FFFrancis Foster
  And these group of people, they were idiots, basically did a representation on Bonfire Night in November the 5th in our country. And they did a representation of people in the tower and set fire to it. They videoed it. They were laughing along. Now obviously, that's a dick move. I think we can all agree with that.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  But you don't arrest somebody for that, for basically being a dick.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's ... It shouldn't be illegal to be stupid.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  No.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  It just ... That's a ... You're crossing a line because you're making a subjective judgment. You know, like, it's not funny to me. And it's, it's not funny to probably to a lot of rational people.
14. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  But you should be able to try. Like, the whole thing about doing something ... Like, a lot of times when people do outrageous things they think are gonna be funny, they don't know.
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  And then they try it. That's not a, a thing you should arrest people for, because j- you're setting a crazy precedent because then it becomes subjective, like what's outrageous and what's not. It could move to anything. It could move to, you know, trans identification or trans r- rights. It could move to anything that you-
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Vaccine hesitancy. I mean-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  It could-
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... we can keep going.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, vaccine hesitancy, not, not supporting Ukraine. There, there's a whole slew of things that could be stuffed into that box once you open it. You just can't open that box. That box has gotta be ... People have to be able to ... Th- this is, this is how we have to conduct ourselves. People have to be able to express themselves. And they have to be able to use facts and reality and not get censored. And they have to be able to do that kinda universally. And if they can't do that, if the good ideas can't compete against the bad ideas, then the good ideas aren't good enough. So, we have to figure it out, uh, strengthen the good ideas. But the only way that works is if you don't censor people, 'cause as soon as you start censoring people, you're admitting that you don't wanna engage in this. You don't want, you don't want to, you don't want to show a better way of looking at things. You just want to be the only person who gets to talk. And that's what we saw on social media over the last few years.
22. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  And which is why Elon buying Twitter was such a big fucking deal.
24. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a big fucking deal. And I know advertisers are panicking and people are saying that hate talk is up. And I must admit, I have seen a lot of wild shit on X now that I don't think I would've ever seen before.
26. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... openly racist stuff, some r- pretty gross stuff. And it's just- It's also, it's just weird how comfortable people are, uh, d- talking a certain way.
29. NANarrator
  Mm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, it's almost like I wonder, like, how much of the idea of it being, uh, completely uncensored now ... It's not totally uncensored.
12:38 – 13:45
Hate Speech
1. KKKonstantin Kisin
  much changed though. Like, like, I didn't, I didn't feel it terrible. I think that the, in terms of the hate speech stuff, or whatever you call that, whatever it is, that's just a product of the fact that they're not moderating as much.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And I, I actually think, I mean, what you said was, you know, just preach on that. But I also think, on top of that, we have to, those of us who believe in freedom of expression, we have to also admit that freedom comes at a cost. And it, it's worth paying.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's what we have to be honest about, I think. We have to say, "We're getting freedom at the cost of some un- discomfort. Some people are allowed to be dicks."
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  "And that's the price we're willing to pay." I mean, freedom always comes at a cost, right? And it, and it's trade-offs. You could make the country really safe if you lock every man between 18 and 40 in a prison. But we don't do that because we understand we can't do that, right?
8. FFFrancis Foster
  Despite what some feminists want.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
10. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) Statistically, though, they'd be right.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  They'd-
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  That's what's crazy.
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's what I'm saying.
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right? That's who commits the crimes.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, I used to have this bit about, what would it be like if women caused all wars?
22. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Because men cause all of them.
24. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Men cause every fucking war that's ever happened.
26. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Pretty much. I mean, maybe women were involved.
13:45 – 16:28
Helen of Troy
1. JRJoe Rogan
  You know?
2. FFFrancis Foster
  Well, yeah, I mean, there's Helen of Troy.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But she wasn't out there fighting. She just wanted-
6. FFFrancis Foster
  No, but it was her fault, mate.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... to be with her true love, mate.
8. FFFrancis Foster
  It was her fault.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Th- that can be a, a factor.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? There's, like, really strong women and pussy-whipped kings. A lot of that happens. (laughs)
12. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs) But, you know-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  But for the most part, you know, if you locked all the men up, yeah, right, there would be no crime. Except in jail, there'd be a lot of crime in jail. (laughs)
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Let's, let's stop giving them ideas, Joe. (laughs)
15. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, it's ... Y- but he, you know, you can't, obviously you can't do that. But it's also, it's like, (sighs) what do you ... Like, how do we fix all of the, like, insane tension in the world today? It seems like this is ... At- at no other time in my life have I felt like there's more conflict-
18. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and more, like, tension in the air. Like, it didn't use to be that people with differing ideas, whether they're on the right or the left, were so fucking hateful. So ... And- and I kept seeing the, the kind of rhetoric that you see online is just so like, "If we don't win, democracy is lost," and it's from both sides.
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm.
21. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm. I think the problem is, man, is that we spend all our time on these platforms, which incentivizes that type of behavior, because it's always gonna be the most controversial take, the most reactionary point of view that's gonna gain the most engagement. And that's gonna work with the algorithm, which is gonna drive it.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. FFFrancis Foster
  So really, you know, people respond to incentives, and you're incentivizing people to be-
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
25. FFFrancis Foster
  ... more reactionary, more divisive, more aggressive. When the reality is, as we all know, like, if you got those two people to sit in front of one another and have a conversation, they wouldn't behave like that because you have the added element of getting a punch in the face.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, that's another thing, right? Like, most people would never communicate the way they communicate online i- in real life.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. And it's partly what Francis said, which is the potential for violence, right?
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's real.
29. KKKonstantin Kisin
  It's real.
30. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. It's real.
16:28 – 17:04
Words of Violence
1. JRJoe Rogan
  interesting.
2. FFFrancis Foster
  It's really interesting, and we've also come to this point, Joe, which is really worrying to me, where people think that words are violence.
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's crazy, man.
4. FFFrancis Foster
  You know? And if you think that words are violence, and if you literally interpret it as that, then you having a- an argument with someone is you literally being physically assaulted. So if you're going t- If you feel like you're being physically assaulted, then you're gonna up the ante and you're gonna become more aggressive as a result.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You're justified to defend yourself.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you think that everyone is Na- a Nazi, like a literal Nazi-
7. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... like, you feel justified in your actions. And you're, a lot of them are convinced of that. It's, it's like being in a cult.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But are
17:04 – 17:58
Defunded Police
1. KKKonstantin Kisin
  they convinced though? This is what I wonder, Joe, is like, they, they keep using that word about everybody, right?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But if you actually thought democracy was over and the Nazis have taken over, wouldn't you, like, pick up a gun and rise up and overthrow the- but, but they don't.
4. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
5. JRJoe Rogan
  I think they're pretty close to that. (laughs)
6. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
8. JRJoe Rogan
  It seems-
9. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs) It seems like if you woke up one day and that broke out in Philadelphia, you wouldn't be stunned.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  No.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, you're seeing what the looting and the craziness in Philadelphia is right now, right?
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah, yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  It's bonkers, man. This defund the police stuff is psychotic.
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  It's crazy to literally encourage crime. 'Cause if you don't have incentives, if you don't have something in place to keep people from committing crime, then people that have already committed crime in their life, like multiple times, like many times, they're just gonna do it whenever they want.And that's what you're seeing.
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. Yeah.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Yes.
17:58 – 19:01
Decriminalizing Crime
1. FFFrancis Foster
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  It, it's amazing how... And, and it, it's part of this sort of mindset that every human behavior is a product of the circumstances, but it's not. Some people will commit crime, right? And we have to also have a system that prevents that from happening. We have to have police, we have to have everything else. Right? Um, and decriminalizing crime is a bad idea. (laughs)
3. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a stupid idea. And it's just this idea that's born out of guilt, not logic.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  It's born out of virtue signaling, not rational thinking. It's just not a, the way to do it. If you have bad cops, you're supposed to train them to be better. You should fund them better, treat them better, respect them more, and then they should have more of a relationship with the community. It should be a, a thing where they're trying to literally protect you, not constantly persecute people and fuck with people. And it's like that, that line is very... A thin line. Then also, who the fuck wants that job?
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Who the fuck wants to be yelled at all the time? Who wants to be the professional enemy? Who wants to be someone that it's okay to just shoot at? Who wants to be the person that everybody you interact with is lying to you?
19:01 – 20:32
Police
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Was there a time in your life, Joe, where the police were respected by most people?
3. JRJoe Rogan
  There's always been problems, you know. There was problem... Hunter S. Thompson wrote about the Chicago riots being the one of the most horrific things that he ever saw in his life, the way cops were-
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  ... beating the people with clubs and shit. It's... There's always been bad cops, just like there's always been bad plumbers.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  It's just ba-... Some people just suck.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  They suck at what they do. And, you know, they come from a bad environment. They don't... You know, they didn't have good role models. They grew up around assholes. They don't have any motivation. Maybe they're hooked on drugs. And they suck at what they do.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hmm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  And that could be anything.
12. FFFrancis Foster
  Hmm.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Anybody could suck at anything. Cops too. There's cops that are awesome human beings. I know a lot-
14. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... of cops that are great people.
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  From jujitsu, I've known so many cops, 'cause cops are constantly training. And generally, they're really nice guys with a fucking really hard job.
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  But you don't hear about those.
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  You hear about the one that does some horrible thing. You see about the one who plants the gun on the guy after he shoots him.
22. FFFrancis Foster
  Hmm.
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  You see the one where people shoot people when they're reaching for their wallets. You see, you see the crazy shit. You see people punching women in the face. You see crazy shit, right?
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  But you don't see all the positive interactions. And you don't see what happens if you get rid of them. And that's what you're seeing with this s- these smash-and-grabs. This is... These are fucking bananas, man, 'cause they're everywhere now. And people are seeing so many of them on the internet, and they're seeing that people are getting away with them, and it's encouraging them.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
20:32 – 23:02
Crime
1. FFFrancis Foster
  And this is what happened, you know. In V- you know, in Venezuela was always had a problem with lawlessness, but when Chavez came to power, after a few years, you know, they said the cops weren't gonna prosecute p- people, criminals, because prosecuting a crime is a sign of right-wing oppression. Like, where have you heard that before? Right? And as a result of that, it became so completely and utterly lawless, the, the, the city became uninhabitable. It became the murder capital of the world and the kidnap capital of the world. Because there's always gonna be a small subset of society who are criminals, and who will then look to maximize their opportunities to make money.
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. There's, there's a couple arguments about this that make sense. When, when people say that they're a victim in their circumstance, and we, we have to appreciate that they were put into a horrible circumstance in life and they're just trying to get by, that's true too.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Hmm. Sure.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  So what we have to do that we're not doing is try to figure out how to stop that, how to stop how m- how to make, like, a minimum quality of life for everybody-
7. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  ... where your n- no one's growing up in dire poverty.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  That... If you could send... (laughs) How many, I mean, uh, how many trillions of dollars, uh, have we spent i- uh, just on military budgets over the last few years?
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  If they figured out a way to give contractors a lot of money to fix neighborhoods, like, to, like, completely clean them up, provide modern housing-
13. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  ... take care of all the bl-... Figure out ways to set people up for work programs and give people jobs. Like, if that was, like, financially viable-
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  ... just like Halliburton had those contracts to rebuild i- Iraq-
17. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs) Mm-hmm.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  ... after we blew it up, if they had something like that for inner cities, where there could, these guys could literally make money doing it, that could be one way to kind of re-engineer things. Because if they could just figure out how to do that, you'd have so much less crime. People-
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You'd have a lot less crime. Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  You'd have a lot less crime, if people had hope, if people had role models, if they had community centers, if they had really good education and they had safe streets.
21. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Just that alone. Just that alone.
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. It would, it would reduce crime a lot, definitely.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It would take a long fucking time, though.
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Because you got generation after generation of people who lived there. A- even, you're talking about, like, really fucked up, gang-ridden neighborhoods.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm. Yeah.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  And no one's done anything about those neighborhoods for a long time.
29. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. Yeah.
23:02 – 23:46
Family Structure
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And, you know, it's family structure as well. Once, once you disrupt all that, there's not enough male role models. Where are peop-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Exactly.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Where are young kids gonna look for, for a role model? It's gonna be the men with status around them. Who's that gonna be?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Drug dealers.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
7. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, gang members. Yeah.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Status and money.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's them.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  And guys who grew up in those kind of neighborhoods all have that story.
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? And that's true too. You know? Like, yeah, you can't defund the police, but you also can't ignore the plight of a good percentage of our community. Like, uh, we're supposed to be a united community of human beings. We call ourselves Americans. We live on the same patch of land, except for Alaska and Hawaii. (laughs)
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
18. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
20. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) Alaska's the dumbest. Like, how is that ours?
21. FFFrancis Foster
  You know-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  It's not even connected.
23:46 – 24:57
Culture
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. FFFrancis Foster
  You know, people don't talk about the culture aspect of it about it a lot. I remember when I was teaching at a school, it was a really rough school, I taught a li- kid, M- let's call him Darren, and he's one of the smartest kids I've ever encountered. So bright. I remember he was always getting kicked out of school, uh, ge- uh, kicked out of lessons. And when I was like... One of the jobs that you do as a teacher is you walk around the corridor and you pick up the kids who get kicked out of the lesson. And I just... I then taught Darren chess. And within about-... two days, he could beat me at chess. He was super, super, super bright. One of the brightest kids I've ever encountered. But because he came from a criminal family, he was never gonna make it through school. He just wasn't, because the, the values that had been inculcated him, right the way from birth, meant that he was never gonna succeed. And this is what, that I found frustrating that a lot of people didn't get. They were like, "He's a bad kid. He's a b-" Yeah, but he's a kid who's a product of his culture, and it takes a very special person to be able to break out of that.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm. And generally, they have to find something to break out.
4. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Whether it's, uh, music or sports or something-
6. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  ... that breaks them out. Stand-up comedy?
8. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  That breaks them out of that, so some new world that they can enter into and succeed in, and then they can leave
24:57 – 29:54
Policing
1. JRJoe Rogan
  the old world behind.
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And at the same time, coming back to the point you made earlier, crime still has to be illegal. We can understand people's circumstances and not encourage and incentivize them to commit crime.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  We have to be able to do both. We have to walk and chew gum at the same time, man. We gotta be, right?
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Right.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  We have to be, yeah. We have to be able to do both. But the, the way to fix it is not defunding the police.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  No.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  That's not the... That- that's the worst strategy, but that's such a virtue-signaling strategy.
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  That's like, "W- look what they did to George Floyd." No, look what one guy did. One guy did, and there was a more than appropriate response by the people that saw that video.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  People freaked the fu- And the violence and the, the burning and the l- all that smashing and shit, very unfortunate. But that out blast of hate, it at least should make people recognize that, A, you can be held responsible for something horrific like that if someone's filming it, and then also that those kind of cops do exist, and also that it's not all of them.
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  And we gotta figure out a way to train cops or screen them better, or c- c- like Jocko says, that you should train them the same way you train SEALs. Like, SEALs develop... They go through this training program, and then they dedicate a certain amount of time, forever, for training. They're always training.
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Cops don't do that. They just stay cops.
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
18. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  And he's like, "You should dedicate a certain percentage of their time should be dedicated to training, and they should be held accountable." But it's also, it's like, you're asking a lot, and then on top of that, you're essentially dealing with people that have a high instance of PTSD.
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Oh, man.
21. FFFrancis Foster
  Oh, come on.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Very, very high instance and not discussed and not appreciated. You hear about PTSD from people that are victims of violence and people that are victims of war. You- you hear about that, but you don't hear about it about cops.
23. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. Yeah.
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. And- and also the point you made earlier. I mean, how much does it tr- how much does it take to train a SEAL?
25. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  It takes a lot.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right. How much does it... How much do we spend training police officers?
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Not- not nearly as much.
29. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And also, like, hey, you shouldn't be fat.
29:54 – 30:45
Poverty
1. KKKonstantin Kisin
  we have to be real in a society like yours and like ours where we define poverty... I mean, look, uh, you're, the communities you're talking about, they are really in, in deep trouble, of course. But we still, we define poverty in relative terms, and somebody will always be poorer than other people. You know-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes, but like-
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... either very poor or-
4. JRJoe Rogan
  ... dire poverty, food stamps, welfare.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Sure.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  You don't have money for food.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  I, I know. But, but those people are much wealthier than many of the people I grew up around.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Which is crazy, right?
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like, it's 34%.
12. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Or $34,000 a year-
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... is one, 1% of the world.
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
17. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) And people call themselves like, you know, these one percenters. Bitch, that's you.
19. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
20. JRJoe Rogan
  That's you.
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right. That's everybody here.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's all of us.
25. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? Well, I s- especially most people working make more than $34,000 a year. So, most people in America that have a full-time job-
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... they're probably making more than $34,000 a year, and they're in the top 1% of the world.
29. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
30:45 – 32:05
Hopelessness
1. FFFrancis Foster
  You, you know the thing that I don't think people talk about enough? So, I've, when I was teaching, I taught in rural communities. And in a lot of rural communities, because of globalization, because of the industrialization, there's just generation after generation who are growing up, who are becoming adults, and there is no work. There is no work for the vast majority of them. And what it inculcates in them is a sense of hopelessness.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. FFFrancis Foster
  And if you grow up in a culture where you feel that there is no hope, and you look around you, and everyone is broken, and no one is working, and everyone has given up, then even as a kid, you think to yourself, "Well, well, what's the point of doing anything? Because I'm just gonna end up like Uncle Dave on the sofa getting..." You know what I mean?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Even if you don't intellectually think it-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. FFFrancis Foster
  ... emotionally, you feel it.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, that's a thing that can happen to kids in high school. So, if you're in high school and you're hanging around with a crowd who likes to party and drink-
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and, and fuck off, and not do much, and, you know, those are the fun people to hang out with, and then you get outta school, and now you're supposed to get a job. You, you have to... Now, you're on your own. You have to figure it out. And these guys aren't figuring it out. If you're trapped in that kind of a friend group, like, you can get sucked into very low expectations, you know. And you could, you could fucking (laughs) waste a long chunk of your life before you figure that out.
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Totally,
32:05 – 33:41
Expectations
1. KKKonstantin Kisin
  man. And, you know, culture, you're right, Francis, is such a powerful thing. I mean, I, when I was, uh, when I was 18, I spent a few weeks sleeping in the park 'cause I didn't have money, and my, you know, I had a long family situation that was very bad. But it never occurred to me that I would stay there because that wasn't what I came from, and it wasn't the environment I was raised in. I always knew that I would get out of it, you know.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Uh, and culture w- you know, whatever attitude, whatever you wanna call it, will, will push you through things that, if you don't have it, is gonna be impossible.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. If you don't have expectations that, you know, you kno- you don't know people that have succeeded in life and done well and-
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's a better word, expectations-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... than culture.
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Expectations.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  It's just... Oh. If you're in a fucking place like South Side of Chicago, have you ever looked at the murder rate? Fuck, man.
12. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah, and it's h- it's heartbreaking.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  There's so many crazy videos of shootouts in the street. It's like, wh-... I just watched one the other day. A guy pulls over, jumps out of the car, shoots these guys. (exhales sharply) It's just happening on the street. You're, these kids are growing up in a war zone. So, if you're a kid and you're growing up there and you're 15 years old, how many people have you seen killed? Three?
14. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Four? Five? How many have you seen killed? If you're... Are you out at night? Are you, at 13 years old, are you roaming around street- streets at night, being wild? And are, are you seeing gang violence? Are you, are you participating in it? Like... (exhales sharply)
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And what do you want as a young man? You want status. You want money.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You want girls. Who are the people... All the people that you see around you, who are, who are the people that have that?
19. JRJoe Rogan
  And also, it's probably pretty fucking exciting.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Oh, man.
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  You know?
23. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Shoot some guns, yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  A lot better than working at Lowe's.
26. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yep.
27. FFFrancis Foster
  When I was...
33:41 – 36:16
Social Urgency
1. FFFrancis Foster
  Again, like, I was working in East London, and one of the... (sighs) This is a thing, you know, because you, I- I try always to have compassion for people. And o- obviously, you're human. Sometimes, you're just like, "You're f-"
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
3. FFFrancis Foster
  But (sighs) the thing that I found most heartbreaking, man, is like, there were kids in my class who I taught. They had learning difficulties. They were, you know, they, you know, they're low IQ. They weren't particularly bright. They were sweet kids. And they were just targeted by gangs 'cause gangs knew that they could groom them, that they were 10, 11 years old, there was no one at home, no one cared for them. They could groom them, and then they could become drug runners and whatever else. You know, my ex was an educational psychologist.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, God.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  She was working with a lot of these kids. One of, one of her kids like went missing. Uh, h- he, the kid went missing, 10, 11 years old. This was in North London, she was working. The kid was found in Scotland. Literally, a different country at the other end of the island. And you're like, wh- you know. And it was, it was gang. It was gang.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. FFFrancis Foster
  You know, 'cause they take them, they groom them, they give them money. They're the first person who shows them affection, the first person to show... "You know what? Everybody else has written you off. Everyone else thinks you're stupid. But you know what? Come and join us. Come and join us. I'll show you respect."
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
9. FFFrancis Foster
  "You... I'm gonna give you responsibility. And you know what else you're gonna do? You're gonna get money."
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Here's a question. We, we all have, we all have this vision of a utopian society where there is no longer war, there is no longer crime. And the... But, that's never existed.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  Well-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  It's never existed even briefly. Isn't it w-... Is there something that human beings, it's almost like built into the operating system of human beings, that you need a certain amount of antagonists, a certain amount of protagonists, to keep things moving? And that the, the urgency that everybody feels right now is like social urgency. It's almost like we're building up to like an ideological Super Bowl.
13. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, we're gonna figure out which one of these ideas makes the most sense. (laughs)
15. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
17. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  You know? You know?
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like, it feels like there's a, like this tension build-up. And I, I almost wonder...... if that's something that we need in order to figure things out. Like, we need this chaos. We need people trying to control narratives. We need people trying to censor people.
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  We need people to do it so we realize how horrific it is, so we act out and we talk about it. So it's not like this slow, creeping censorship where you don't notice it. It's like, it's shocking.
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's, they're sh- censoring news stories that could hurt the, you know, the, the, the party that they want to win in, in the elections. It's crazy stuff.
36:16 – 42:03
Nigel Farage
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  It, it is crazy. And we had the case with de-banking in the UK, where this guy Nigel Farage, I don't know if you know him, he-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  I did hear about that story.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, he's kind of like the Donald Trump of the UK in some ways, you know, very unpopular with some things, very, uh, with some people, very popular with others. And his bank, uh, which was a kind of like bank for wealthy people, they closed his account without explaining why. Um, he started doing some digging. He did a freedom of information request or something. It's not called that, but it's basically the same thing. Um, and th- the bank came out and said it's 'cause he doesn't have enough money. Bullshit. Turned out it wasn't true. Uh, eventually, he got the information saying th- th- the transcripts of their internal conversations were that part of the reason they shut his account down was political, right? And then we had the Financial Conduct Authority, which is the people who are supposed to investigate this stuff, they did an investigation and said there was no political de-banking going on. All the newspapers reported it, and in paragraph five of that same article, you can see that his case was not taken into account in the report.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right? So they, th- they lied about it stage after stage after stage, and now you've got mainstream journalists spreading this crap-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, all they have to do-
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... that they know isn't true.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  ... is have a good headline. All they have to do is have a good headline.
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  The inside of it can be nonsense, and they can even show you in front, right in front of your face why what they're saying is incorrect, and it doesn't matter.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
13. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And then they all bitch and whine- ... and then they go, "Why is no one watching our content?" Yeah.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, here's the wildest one that's going on right now. You know the Mar-a-Lago controversy of the f- the price- pricing or the, uh-
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  The inflated value of the house. Yeah, the value of the Mar-a-Lago, as they say. Yeah, yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  They, the judge ruled that it was worth 18 million. It's 20 acres in, like, the most expensive real estate in that area.
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Like a house down the street from it, much smaller, just sold for $50 million.
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Wow.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Even if Forbes said it's worth somewhere between... I think... See what Forbes said. I think they said it was worth between 300 and $700 million. And, uh, they were saying that it's worth 18 million. (laughs)
22. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
23. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like they don't even try to pretend.
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, if, if the guy-
26. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Why, why does no one trust the mainstream?
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... if the guy says his house is worth a billion dollars, right?
28. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  And then you come along and say, "No, no, no, it's worth like 800 million." Forbes says it's worth as much as 700 million. We're gonna... We'll call it 700 million. Now you got a reasonable argument.
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
42:03 – 45:43
Misinformation
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You know the thing that always gets me, man, is like...
3. FFFrancis Foster
  ... you, uh, you read in the mainstream media, and they criticize our podcast and, and y- and your show, and, and, uh, and then they go, "These people spread misinformation." I'm like, "Mate, like, what, what are you talking about? You've been spreading misinformation from day one." You know what I mean?
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
6. FFFrancis Foster
  It's like getting a lecture on dating from Ted Bundy. You're like, "Mate, come on. Y-"
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it seems crazy for them to keep harping on that at this point. It's like, don't you know about the internet?
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, that people have made... They've made, like, compilation videos of you guys being wrong over and over and over-
10. FFFrancis Foster
  Oh, true. (laughs)
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and over and over again, and you've never apologized for it. The, I mean, whatever you wanna talk about, whether it's the, the Russia collusion thing or the saying the dangers of Trump denying the election. Then you show, like, how many people denied Trump's election.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  It was the, calling him the illegitimate president.
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hillary called him-
16. FFFrancis Foster
  Yes.
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  ... an illegitimate president.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, they said he stole the election. Like, it, that kinda... If you think that's dangerous from him, then it's dangerous from you too. And we should all acknowledge that we should try to figure out a way to make the elections as fair as possible.
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  My real fear is that not everybody's on board with that. That's my real fear. I would love to believe that everybody on the right and everybody on the left just wants a fair battle, and they just wanna be able to speak their mind to the public and have the people choose. That's what I would like, like to believe. And that we would like to encourage all Americans to vote. Everyone should just g- get informed and go out there and give your opinion, and let's see how the country feels.
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  But I don't know how much shenanigans is going on. You know there's a little.
23. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  You know there's a little collusion between, you know, social media companies. We know that now.
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  That's, that's kinda scary. That's kinda scary that you would think that what you believe is so important that you're willing to manipulate an election. That scares you.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yes.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  It just, it should scare us 'cause it's like, man, they could use that on you. I mean, we could have this... Imagine if there's like, we have this fucking amazing person who's running for president, and like, finally, all rational people in the center, people that are rational on the right and the left agree this person has the country's best ideas in mind. And we've made, l- like, awesome progress with the way this person is communicating with everybody and seems like they could really unite us. And they get fucked. Somebody comes in and just manipulates it.
29. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Doesn't like the idea of some new person taking charge, doesn't like some i- the idea of some radical thinker who wants to try to make things as good as possible for the, the whole country, and that maybe there's a way to do that. And they get fucked by some establishment spokesperson because they know how to manipulate the system.
45:43 – 46:21
This is existential
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. FFFrancis Foster
  And here's the thing with Trump, you know. You know, to him, this isn't, this is no longer a presidential race. To him, this is existential because this is probably the only chance he's gonna have of avoiding jail. So, you look at it like that and you think, Trump is already a guy who, let's put it bluntly and mildly, will do whatever it takes to win. And if you could put a guy like that and you say, "The only way that you're going to avo- avoid jail is to win the presidency," you're already notching it up a few ratchet when it comes to making the
46:21 – 48:48
The Biden thing
1. FFFrancis Foster
  atmosphere really toxic.
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And you can play that argument the other way. I mean, in terms of Biden and the investigations that are happening. Donald Trump gets elected, what is he gonna do? That, they, they, they would argue that too, right?
3. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  The Biden thing is fascinating to watch people ignore it.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Did you see Noam Dworman's interview with that guy? Uh, the-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  No, I did not.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You never saw... Oh, man. It's, uh, Noam Dworman from The Cellar, from The Comedy Cellar.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, okay.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  He had a guy on his podcast who he billed up as, like, the most sane, uh, guy who says the, the Hunter Biden thing was a nothing burger. And they went round for, like, an hour, and the guy just would not... He, he, he was the craziest thing that I've ever seen. I'll send it to you.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
12. FFFrancis Foster
  It's a journo from The Washington Post.
13. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  And he thinks it's nothing?
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. But, but when, when-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Is he doing mental gymnastics?
18. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, so when No- Noam essentially corners him and goes, "No, no, look at this, look at this," the guy just, he, he just lea- he wants to leave. That's it.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm. Yeah, well, that's a fucking live wire for them. They don't wanna touch that.
20. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, it's like there's really no defending it rationally. So if you're on the team that has to defend the, the left, which, you know, you've all seen people like that on podcasts before where you realize, like, "Oh, this guy is just... This isn't, like, a real person. This is a, the, a representative-"
22. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  "... of whatever they're for, whether it's the right or the left." You kn- you know those, there's people like that-
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
25. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  ... where you never really see them.
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
28. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, they, they have walls. And what they're doing is just, like, speaking that kind of language. There's, there's always gonna be people like that.
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  We gotta get back... Or not back, I don't think we were ever there, but we gotta get somehow the idea that truth matters, man. And it, it doesn't matter what fucking team you're on, the truth matters if you're left, right, up, down, whatever. The truth matters.
48:48 – 50:29
Illegal immigration
1. FFFrancis Foster
  terrified of a Twitter storm. You see it in our politics-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. FFFrancis Foster
  ... you know, where somebody says something... Like, the hot topic at the moment is illimi- is immigration, particularly illegal immigration. So, there's a lot of people coming from France to the UK illegally. They just jump in a boat from France illegally. And these... It's run by cartels and gangs. And the, the really sad thing is some of these people actually drown in the English Channel as a result. And they come, and they come to the UK. This needs to stop. You just can't have unfiltered illegal immigration. Yet you get people on, cons- politicians to go, "Look, we need to stop this." And then people are calling... They're saying that they're... You know, one very famous ex-sportsman compares that to Nazi Germany.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  It, it's like, why is it happening in this big rush? Is this engineered? Like, why is it happening like this? Like, what is it about this, uh... The... It seems like at least some people want to keep the borders open.
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm. Yeah.
6. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  It seems like it.
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
9. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  It seems like something's changed, where they've made it easier for people to just come across.
11. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  So, what happened?
13. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, whose idea is that?
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  And then what is this crazy push where you want people to not have ID to vote?
17. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  But you want people to have ID to make sure you have a vaccine passport, or you can't work or get on a plane? And did you check any of these people to see if they were vaccinated when they came aboard? You really didn't, did you? So, what do... What are we doing here?
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Mm-hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, what is it?
21. KKKonstantin Kisin
  It's crazy.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like, hundreds of thousands of people a month.
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hm.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's crazy.
50:29 – 53:45
Tragic Vision of Life
1. JRJoe Rogan
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You brought it up earlier. I think we talked about this last time, with, you know, Tom Masel, who's just like... I mean, he's a h- I- I love... I've read every book that he's ever published, and I just think he's amazing. You know, we talked about the tragic vision versus the, the slightly more utopian way of looking at things. You know, when you were talking about crime earlier. The tragic vision of life kind of says, if you look back at our history, you kind of get a sense of what human beings are.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And human beings are flawed. They're not perfect. They will commit crime. They will do terrible things. They will go to war. Uh, they will do that. And so the only thing you can do is know that and then act accordingly, right? That means that you have to have a border. That means you have to have a police force. You have to recognize the fallibility of human beings and the societal dynamics as well. And then you can make good policy.
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Hm.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. KKKonstantin Kisin
  That's how you make good policy.
8. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But if you live in this blue sky world only... The blue sky world is great for inspiring you to be better than your human instincts and all of that. But there's also a real world in which you have to... You have to be able to live in both.
10. FFFrancis Foster
  Hm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  And it's hard. It's really hard.
13. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
14. KKKonstantin Kisin
  But if you can do that, you can hopefully make improvements because you're trying to be better. You're trying to speak to your own and other people's better angels. And at the same time, you have to recognize that not everybody's a good guy. Some people are terrorists. Some people are murderers. Some people are rapists. Some people will do things that you don't want to happen, and you have to also tackle that at the same time. And immigration, countries need borders, man. That's something people used to agree a- about, left and right. The... I, I, I... You know, I've, I've quoted Barack Obama talking about this. We need borders.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, he was talking about that when he was running for president.
16. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
17. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  He's saying something (laughs) that would get Trump canceled today.
19. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
20. FFFrancis Foster
  Yes. Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  It's, um-
22. KKKonstantin Kisin
  What do you think happened, Joe?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't know. But I don't know how it can keep happening. I don't know how anybody doesn't recognize that it's a problem and go, "Hey, let's sort this out." I don't know. It's... You don't wanna go full tinfoil hat. Nobody does.
24. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Hm.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Nobody wants to, like... Are they engineering-
26. FFFrancis Foster
  I mean, some people do. (laughs)
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
28. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
29. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
30. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Let's be fair about it.
53:45 – 55:29
Shrink Theft
1. FFFrancis Foster
  he g- yeah, he got kicked off a couple of times, I think.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Look at that. Shrink in theft losses, near one billion at Lowe's. Here's how much it's costing other retailers. Yeah, so it's r- it's true. It's almost a billion dollars they lost.
3. KKKonstantin Kisin
  What does shrink mean?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Shrink and theft loss. That's a good question. What does that mean?
5. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, I don't know.
6. FFFrancis Foster
  I don't know.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  So, shrink and theft. Is shrink like internal theft or... What does that mean?
8. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah, it says it's blaming it on shrink.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  What does that mean?
10. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Or items lost to factors. Oh, external or employee theft.
11. FFFrancis Foster
  Employee theft.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, okay. External or employee, so that's... Okay. Um, so what is the actual number?
13. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Uh, I have no idea.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  So, it says it in there somewhere, I'm pretty sure. Target lost 219 million.
15. KKKonstantin Kisin
  I think it's slightly further down, Jo- uh, Jamie. Just a little bit. Oh, there you go, 997, is that it?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  997 million, up from ... They lost 796 billion in 2021. Oh my God. Imagine insuring them.
17. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Imagine insuring ... you're gonna insure a store that you know is gonna get robbed.
19. FFFrancis Foster
  But, but just imagine this, Joe. So, uh, I've got, uh, uh ... Actually, Konstantin went to speak at this festival. It's a very prestig- prestigious festival in the UK called How The Light Gets In, right? And I have friends who go and speak there and go and watch it, debates. Like I said, Konstantin took part in a debate there. And one of my friends went to watch because his partner, she was speaking there and hosting debates. And I, and I said to him, "How was it, mate?" And he said, "Do you know the thing that was really worrying?" I go, "What?" He goes ... And bear in mind these are some of the most educated people in the UK. At least one of them per panel, per debate went, "Look, until we abolish capitalism-"
20. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
21. FFFrancis Foster
  "... then we're never gonna solve these problems."
22. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
23. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
24. FFFrancis Foster
  And it's just like, you're talking about genetics. Why are you talking about abolishing capitalism?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  (sighs)
26. FFFrancis Foster
  But think about it like this-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a
55:29 – 1:10:34
Professors
1. JRJoe Rogan
  virtue.
2. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah. There's not a lot of science research that happens outside.
3. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
4. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Do you know what I mean?
5. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah. Yeah.
6. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You need, you need money to, to do research.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh, duh.
8. FFFrancis Foster
  Exactly.
9. KKKonstantin Kisin
  (laughs)
10. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
11. FFFrancis Foster
  But-
12. KKKonstantin Kisin
  You think a scientist would get that?
13. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
14. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, the problem is, you know, you're, they're so insulated in these university-
15. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  ... like, ecosystems. They're so insulated. If you're a professional academic, I mean, look, it's a noble thing. It's an amazing thing to be a professor.
17. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  It's an amazing thing to be educating kids and shaping minds and exposing them to great literature and mathematics and all the, all the wonderful things professors teach. But the reality of their existence is you go from being a high school student to-
19. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm-hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  ... a college university student, to getting your master's degree, to getting your PhD, to teaching. You're constantly in this world, and that world is almost entirely left wing, like radically left wing.
21. FFFrancis Foster
  Mm.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, the, like the ... What is the percentage of, like, far left professors? You, you almost even think, when you think professor, like far left, that's like Catholic priest-
23. FFFrancis Foster
  (laughs)
24. JRJoe Rogan
  ... pedophile.
25. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Right.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  You know what I mean?
27. KKKonstantin Kisin
  Yeah.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, you know what I'm saying?
29. FFFrancis Foster
  Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Unfortunately, they're connected-

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Intro

Do you let your kids play Roblox

Instant gratification vs deferred gratification

Making money is like gambling

Twitter Arrests

Examples of Arrests

Hate Speech

Helen of Troy

Words of Violence

Defunded Police

Decriminalizing Crime

Police

Crime

Family Structure

Culture

Policing

Poverty

Hopelessness

Expectations

Social Urgency

Nigel Farage

Misinformation

This is existential

The Biden thing

Illegal immigration

Tragic Vision of Life

Shrink Theft

Professors

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