EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,080 words- 0:00 – 1:09
Austin arrival + Comedy Mothership design choices that serve comics
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hey.
- JCJimmy Carr
Hello, Jimmy. Hey, Joe. How are ya?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Good to see you, buddy.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's very nice to see you. This is, uh, it's a hell of a setup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank you. Thank you very much.
- JCJimmy Carr
I'm like in Austin, Texas. I've been here about 18 hours, and, uh, it's, uh, yeah. Five stars on TripAdvisor so far.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you do a set last night?
- JCJimmy Carr
I didn't do a set, but I went to the club.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- JCJimmy Carr
And the club is, it's phenomenal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Thank you, thank you.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's almost like someone with an unlimited budget built a comedy club.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJimmy Carr
That's what it felt like, Joe. I don't know, I don't know if your business manager has a view on this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I don't-
- JCJimmy Carr
But I think something along the lines of-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm not good at taking advice. (laughs)
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, but it's, it's so great. It's so set up from the comic's point of view.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's like, uh, no food.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, no food.
- JCJimmy Carr
No food is a great choice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you can have food.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, people can eat afterwards.
- JRJoe Rogan
Go eat before.
- JCJimmy Carr
Or afterwards. Yeah, or afterwards.
- JRJoe Rogan
Eat after, eat before. There's so many places to eat on 6th Street.
- JCJimmy Carr
There's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a nice pizza place right next door.
- 1:09 – 6:04
Why comedians need community + comedy as a golden-age social ritual
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's one of those Kevin Costner things, you know, "You build it, they will come," from the Field of Dreams.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah. Well, it feels kinda bigger than that as well, in terms of, you know, you've come out here, and what are you giving back?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And comedy's given you everything, as it has me, and you go, "Well, what, what can you give back?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
What can you do for your community? And it feels like that's a great thing to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
But also, it seemed like I kind of had to do it because when I moved here, I had this idea that I'd just be able to, like, do whatever local spots I could and then go on the road, and I kind of could. But one of the things that I've realized is that comics need community. It's very important. Like, and that's one of the things that we really had at The Comedy Store that made The Comedy Store so special, is that it wasn't just that it was a great place to work and come up with new material and work on it, but it was also a great place to meet other people that were doing the same thing.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's interesting, comedy-
- JRJoe Rogan
And you get to sit and talk.
- JCJimmy Carr
... as opposed to acting.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
You know that thing... Alan Havey said this great thing to me. He said, "Comedians, we're out for ourselves but in it together."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
I thought, "Ah, that's, it's really interesting, that thing of like going, yeah. Everyone's doing their own thing. See, it's, comedy is not like acting. It's not a zero-sum game.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
So you doing your thing, no matter how successful you are, has no impact on my thing. If anything, you pull me up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
So comedy becomes like a bigger thing. If someone does fantastically and they're playing hockey arenas, then more people are pulled up through the clubs and the theaters into the arenas.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- JCJimmy Carr
It feels like, it feels like we're living in a golden age for comedy. It feels to me like this is what it m- must have felt like to work in, uh, music or movies in the '70s.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's like, it's, it feels like there's something culturally going on with comedy where it feels like it's got a value that's, people need it. People need to go out and feel like they're part of a community. And I suppose when you think about what we're doing on stage, it is pretty special. We're letting people into our minds, and we go into their bodies.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
We're possessing them. We change their physical state. It's extraordinary.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is extraordinary. It really is like a drug. You're giving people a happy drug.
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, it's two dr- I mean, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... it's the endorphin 'cause you don't quite know when the punch is coming.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
And then the serotonin of laughter.
- 6:04 – 8:17
Phones locked up, audience ‘performance,’ and why live rooms feel different
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It is. And, uh, and also, in this day and age, it's one of the rare places where you can hear people speak freely about controversial subjects. And in my club, we lock up the phones so people don't... They're not self-conscious, and they're also not distracted, and then you don't have to worry about people filming-
- JCJimmy Carr
B- but that thing of like-
- JRJoe Rogan
... clips.
- JCJimmy Carr
I- i- it is weird, isn't it? The locking up the phones is such an interesting point because that's what people want.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
They want that boundary of going, "I'm in a live-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Like, there's lots of people that would... You, you would watch your favorite show. You'd watch, I don't know, wha- whatever you, you, you like, like Game of Thrones or an MMA fight or whatever. And if you have your phone near you, there's a temptation to check the news and refresh and refresh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... and see what's going on and to ruin the experience for yourself. But somehow, being out in public, like, you, you, you're aware. Like, it's, it's performative being in a crowd. Like, we're not the only ones performing at a comedy club or in, in a theater. The audience are performing. People... "How are you doing?" Like, you ask an audience, "How are you doing?" And they go, "Yay."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
No one says that one-on-one.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJimmy Carr
No one's ever s- "Hey, how you doing, Joe?" "Yeah!"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJimmy Carr
You sound psychotic.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
But in an audience, it's entirely acceptable to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... to be that person, to dance and to clap along. You'd look strange listening to a band play live and just standing and listening, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... and not dancing in the crowd.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
And that thing about going, "Well, this is..." It's performative being in the audience. Don't think you're the only one performing. They're all with you. They're all... That, the, the, the laughter is... You're partly... You're signaling. It doesn't mean that it's fake laughter, but you're signaling to other people that you got it, and you're applauding when you kind of agree a little bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And it's, it, there's a, there's a rhythm to it. Being in an audience is a performance, and it's so fun to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it is. It's my favorite thing to watch still, after all these years. I love wa- I watched Christina Pazsitzky last night. It was awesome.
- JCJimmy Carr
Was it fantastic?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, she's so funny. But it just f- it's fun. It's fun to laugh. It's fun to see someone's writing and see, like, where they're going with ideas. And...
- JCJimmy Carr
And it's t- it's, it's also, it's the same and totally different. It's-
- 8:17 – 11:15
Teaching stand-up: joke-writing as a language that can be learned
- JCJimmy Carr
It's a totally different thing. It's t- you know, that self-authored thing. I mean, my... The thing I'm working on at the moment, I'm slightly jealous of the club, I'll be honest. I sort of saw the club last night, I'm like, "This is quite something to do, to set up a club and to have that community," and it's great. And I think that... I'm try- I'm working at the moment on a, I don't know whether it's a book or whether it's a... I think it might be like an online course, but a comedy course. Because-
- JRJoe Rogan
On how to do standup?
- JCJimmy Carr
How to write jokes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJimmy Carr
How to be a standup. I think-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's great.
- JCJimmy Carr
... I think... Here's my vision for it. I think we're going through a golden period, but maybe it's just beginning. Comedy is quite a new medium anyway.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
We get to be the Beatles and The Rolling Stones, or certainly someone in our generation does.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
You know, if you think about it, like, George Carlin and, and, uh, uh, Richard Pryor were John the Baptist-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... where someone's coming through. It's like that thing of, like, it feels like it's, it's getting bigger and bigger. My vision is, it gets taught in schools.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
So, we teach, we teach music, and we teach drama and art. And I think standup comedy is an art form, and I think we need to get less, less magical thinking and more, "Okay, let's put down a language." Like music, you can write it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Let's come up with the... I mean, I, I've kind of... I'm working on, like, 50 joke types, but let's come up with a, a way of analyzing this and teach people how to do it. Because what does it give you? Like, if your kid does standup comedy, okay, well, it's... They have to find their voice. Uh, they have to look at things in a, in a, from a different angle, a different perspective. It's about pattern recognition. These are all transferable skills.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
And it's about finding your voice. The reason every standup is interesting to watch is because it's individual voices.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And really, what's growing up about? What's school about? Finding your voice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Finding out what you're about, finding out who you are. Like, I don't think it's a dumb idea to teach standup comedy and to say, "Well, everyone should give this a go."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
'Cause even people that have done... I k- I've got a couple of people that w- come see me live or whatever that tell me, "Oh, I did, like, four or five gigs 10 years ago."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
But they enjoy standup comedy more than the average person. It's like someone who's... Can play a little bit of guitar-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
... goes and sees and goes, "Well, this is..."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 11:15 – 15:31
Process over ‘magic’: writing discipline, stealing structure, and comic influence
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I think it would be great because how many comics do we know, guys that do this for a living and are doing great, that, that do have magical thinking?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
"Well, it just comes to me."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
"And I need to do this to make it happen." Like, understanding how to write music has never damaged anyone's creativity. So, I think the idea of, like, analyzing it and treating it like a job, and how do you sit down and write? And some people go, "Well, I don't sit down and write. It just, it just occurs to me." And you go, "Uh, well, okay." But, like, it's that... There's a great...... quote by Chuck Close. You know the artist Chuck Close?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JCJimmy Carr
He's a b- a great artist, like pointillist, and he said, uh, "Inspiration is for amateurs, the rest of us just go to work."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm. Yeah. That's similar to Steven Pressfield's work, you know, uh, The War of Art.
- JCJimmy Carr
Oh, I love that book.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, fantastic book.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's really something, isn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
But I think, I think, it's, I'm onto something here because I think a lot of people wanna do something creative with their lives. I think a lot of people wanna-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... uh, they, they like stand-up comedy. It's, it's becoming a bigger thing. I think more people will wanna try it. And just giving them the, the kind of, the, the instruction manual early on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
So, 'cause, 'cause then what they're having to do is what, what we did, you watch a lot of comedy and then you kinda reverse engineer what you hear people do. So you watch the greats, you watch Steven Wright and Emo Philips and Rita Rudner and Wanda Sykes and whatever you're looking at, and you go, "Oh, okay. So they, they must have had the punchline first and then they must have, if they were doing that wordplay, that's how that-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
"... that's probably how they did it. Okay." So you take the, you can take all the structure, you can steal the structure, and then come up with your own content. It's a great-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... kind of, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, that's what a lot of people do in the beginning, right? They like, they make jokes that are similar to a joke that someone that they enjoy would write-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, like say if-
- JCJimmy Carr
It's in their voice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's in there. They find themselves kind of doing... And then there's different ages in comedy where certain people kinda come through and have a real effect on how everyone's performing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like David Tell.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
P- Patrice O'Neal used to always, uh, used to talk about how many babies, uh, he had.
- 15:31 – 21:34
Work-life balance, kids, and the joy problem: ‘work is more fun than fun’
- JCJimmy Carr
I, I don't know. I mean, maybe he's as successful as he needs to be because really what's this about?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's ab- it's quite stoic, I think. I'm, I've become quite the stoic on... I like going, "Well, I... The world ordered a stand-up comedian, I need to honor that."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
I'm a stand-up, so anything that's not writing jokes or performing jokes is not doing the thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
And the thing is all I care about.
- JRJoe Rogan
I would add to that, that it's good to experience life too. And then I think one of the things that accentuates life is accentuating your perspective on things, and that comes from experiences. And it, there's one, one problem that some comics have where they just perform and travel all the time, and a lot of their jokes-
- JCJimmy Carr
Airplane material.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, it revolves around what they know.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's, it's hard, that work-life balance is very tricky. I've just, I've had kids quite late in life and work-life balance is hard, you know. You know, uh, it's, it's difficult. Being a comedian, here's the, here's the first world problem I have, um, uh, you know, work i- is, is more fun than fun.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah. That's true.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's more fun than fun.
- JRJoe Rogan
More fun than any vacation.
- JCJimmy Carr
What are you, what are you doing on a, on a, on a, you know, night out?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
"No, we went and had dinner."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
You go, "Okay. Did a thousand people clap-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJimmy Carr
"... when you walked in the restaurant?" No. No, they didn't.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Then they howl laughing.
- JCJimmy Carr
"Did you get a standing ovation as you left-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
"... the restaurant?" "Well, no I didn't."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
"And I thought I did very well at dinner."
- JRJoe Rogan
I have often thought of how many people live from the cradle to the grave and never kill, and what, what, what a sad thing that is to never experience that, just, just drawing an audience for an hour.
- 21:34 – 26:40
Touring globally: how comedy translates, crowd cultures, and Austin’s creative ‘whisper’
- JCJimmy Carr
Through watching you. Do you, do you travel round the world much? Do you do-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... much overseas? So, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I haven't been lately, but I did the O2 Arena, uh, a few months back. Actually, a year ago.
- JCJimmy Carr
Nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did it in October last year. Yeah. It's not just for fun.
- JCJimmy Carr
And did you get ... 'Cause I mean, I'm, I'm like, I think I'm 40 countries in now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJimmy Carr
I'm going, and you go, "What's happened the last 10 years," uh, like, the English language has become bigger. And the English language was big to begin with. But things like YouTube and Netflix has meant ... 'Cause there used to be a thing in certain countries where they would dub every movie and every TV show into the local language. And they would get it a little bit later, and it wouldn't matter, and the local actors would do the voice, and the show would be a hit. Great. That's all gone now. In the age of kinda global, you know, interconnectivity, people know, "Well, Game of Thrones was on last night, and the, the, the new specials by Joe is out this evening." So, they watch it sort of straightaway-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
... and they watch everything in English. YouTube doesn't bother translating things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
So, everyone's English has kinda gone up a gear. So, you can go to quite obscure places, and everyone wants to come out and see standup comedy, and they all know who you are.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And they're all listening. It's kind of ... It's an amazing way to see the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
It is. It is an amazing way to see the world. And it is interesting how comedy translates into these other places and how they, how they absorb comedy. It's very different. Like, I, I took Tony to Stockholm. We did, uh, Sweden.
- JCJimmy Carr
I love Stockholm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was great. It was great.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But he was like, "Dude, I feel like I bombed." And I go, "You, you did really well. Why?" He goes, " 'Cause there was like, they were quiet in between the jokes." I was like, "That's interesting."
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah, you go to some places though, and it's like, I remember playing at like places in-
- JRJoe Rogan
They laugh and stop laughing.
- JCJimmy Carr
... like Finland, Denmark, Sweden.
- JRJoe Rogan
Laugh, stop laughing. Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And then, at the end of the show-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... nuts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Because it's like, it's more like a theatrical performance is, is the thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 26:40 – 28:13
Gratitude, modern comfort, and the hedonic treadmill
- JCJimmy Carr
But it's that thing, isn't it, where the, you know, that thing in life, disposition is more important than position.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
You know, how you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... are in your head. We all know billionaires that are miserable-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... and, and people sweeping the streets very happy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
And it's that thing of like disposition and the ... It, it seems to be, I know it's trite, but it seems to be the thing is gratitude.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
If you ... Gratitude is the cure for resentment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
And there's so much resentment around.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's such a maligned word because it gets attached to woo-woo bullshit and people wear wooden beads and, you know, it, it gets attached to posing, you know? But I think it's-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's real.
- JCJimmy Carr
I think gratitude as well is like i- people imagine it's about the, the thing and not the ... Like, the environment-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... is the thing we should be grateful for.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
Like that we live in this time. You know that Steven Pinker Enlightenment Now book?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
Where you sort of go, well now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Now there's like ... I had a hot shower this morning. No one b- ... Before 1930, no one had had one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
People didn't know what hot showers were. They washed once a week in cold water.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Good luck, everyone.
- JRJoe Rogan
I wanna know-
- 28:13 – 33:59
Comedy history detour: Dick Gregory, civil rights, and the JFK Zapruder film reveal
- JCJimmy Carr
... but it wasn't quite ... Like the people that started ... Who were the first people in America-
- JRJoe Rogan
Lenny Bruce.
- JCJimmy Carr
L- Lenny Bruce. But Lenny Bruce-
- JRJoe Rogan
He was really the first to do-
- JCJimmy Carr
Play in theaters.
- JRJoe Rogan
... our style of comedy. Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it was our style of comedy where he's just talking about life. Everybody before that was like, "Two Jews walked into a bar. They buy it."
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? It was like set up punchline, ta-dum-thump.
- JCJimmy Carr
I mean, I st- I do old f- I mean, it's very old-timey really in a sense 'cause I do jokes. So they stand and fall. It's very high-wire.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's either this is ... It's binary. This is funny or not. There's no story behind it that you can ... I mean, sometimes I do longer form, but really it's quite like old school jokes. But yeah, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
... like people that started playing theaters and clubs-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... and like to draw a crowd. So you weren't just acting to be comical.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then Pryor was the first one to really do it well.
- JCJimmy Carr
Pry- I never think Dick Gregory gets enough-
- JRJoe Rogan
He doesn't. He doesn't get enough props.
- JCJimmy Carr
... props. People don't talk about it. People don't talk about what he did and part of the struggle and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... he's incredible as a figure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you know, he's also the one that exposed the Kennedy assassination.
- JCJimmy Carr
No, I didn't know that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dick Gregory went on the Geraldo Rivera show 12 years after-
- JCJimmy Carr
Who has-
- JRJoe Rogan
... Kennedy was assassinated.
- JCJimmy Carr
Who had conspiracy theories 35 minutes in? Who has?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I have it, uh, fucking every 20 minutes-
- 33:59 – 45:54
Conspiracy thinking vs real conspiracies: Savile, institutions, and cover-ups
- JCJimmy Carr
It's very, it's a very odd ... I mean, conspiracy theories are like, th- they're sort of fascinating because they're simple solutions to complex problems. You know, so, so a lot of them, I kinda go, "Well, you know, I- I'm not sure whether that's, there's any validity in that." It just seems like a, a, a, a, an easy solution to this thing which is incredibly nuanced and complex.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJimmy Carr
But the Kennedy thing, you go, "Well, how d- it's the president got shot."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but-
- JCJimmy Carr
How was there ... How could they have covered this up?
- JRJoe Rogan
1963. They, there was, I mean, you had n- there was no independent journalism. There was no, uh, YouTube. There was no online commentators that weren't captured by a system. They weren't a part of, uh, an enormous structure like The New York Times or The Washington Post or whatever the fuck it was.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, the Zapruder film, again, had been archived for 13 years before it was, or 12 years. 12 or 13.
- JCJimmy Carr
I didn't re-
- JRJoe Rogan
It was 12 or 13.
- JCJimmy Carr
I didn't realize that. I, I kind of naturally-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... I assumed, stupidly, that he got shot and the film came out the next week.
- JRJoe Rogan
No. No, it didn't.
- JCJimmy Carr
12 years? I mean, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that, I believe it was se- was it '75 that it came out?
- NANarrator
Y- I remember reading into this-
- JCJimmy Carr
Shocking.
- NANarrator
... th- though, ah, they, they, it was like the, that, th- right, um, sorry, frame, like frame 313 or something like that, that hadn't been seen. They did have the Zapruder film and they posted a lot of it in, in, uh, screenshots, in like Life.
- JRJoe Rogan
In Life Magazine.
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause Life Magazine owned it.
- NANarrator
But they left some of it out.
- JRJoe Rogan
And th- and then somehow or another, Dick Gregory acquired it, and that was around '75. And that's when he aired it on television.
- JCJimmy Carr
That's crazy. That's true. See-
- JRJoe Rogan
And when he aired it on television, it just opened up everyone's eyes. They're like, "Well, that, uh, any, anyone who'd ever seen anything get shot knows that when you get hit with something from the back, you don't go back towards the shot."
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
The impact throws the head back.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you see the spray of the bullets, and it appears he's getting hit multiple times from multiple angles.
- 45:54 – 58:14
Age of consent, agency, and inconsistent cultural reactions to abuse cases
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's also- there's a different attitude towards, uh, same-sex, um, minors and adults that is with some people in the gay community. In fact, there was a law that they were trying to pass in California where they were saying that the age of consent being 18 was, in somehow or another, uh, anti-LBGTQ because some-
- JCJimmy Carr
What?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, because some young men sought mentors in older gay men, some young men who are gay.
- JCJimmy Carr
I mean, that sounds like some-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wasn't there- there was a- was his ... Klein? Is that what his name? There's a- a- a politician in California that was very controversial because he was promoting this.
- JCJimmy Carr
Very controversial 'cause he's promoting pedophilia.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, and he's-
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes. Yeah, that's gonna be controversial.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think his idea was like 16 and 17-year-old boys, and that that should be okay. Which is, you know, it gets-
- JCJimmy Carr
I- I think those-
- JRJoe Rogan
... it gets very sketchy because-
- JCJimmy Carr
That sounds ... Uh, it also ... Let's wind it back. Here's something that we could do, right? Here's something we could start a campaign for. Those laws about, you know ... Uh, the age of consent in the UK is 16.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
But those laws should be for 17 and 18-year-old boys.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
They shouldn't apply to us.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, right. It shouldn't apply to a 55-year-old man.
- JCJimmy Carr
It- it- so, Romeo and Juliet-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJimmy Carr
... no- uh, law, I think they have it in New York. They have it in certain states where you go, "Yeah, that's the age of consent is 16 for her, and that guy who's 17, and it's her boyfriend, and they've kno- come up at school together."
- JRJoe Rogan
Makes sense, yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
That makes sense. And then at 18, maybe, "Okay, go and do whatever you're gonna do."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. I remember when I was-
- JCJimmy Carr
That would make a lot more sense to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 18 years old. When I turned 18, my girlfriend was a year younger than me, and she was 17. And I was terrified that I was going to go to jail because I was- I was a legal adult, and she was n- still a child.
- JCJimmy Carr
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
B- even though we started dating when, uh, I was 16, or I was- I was ... Yeah, no, I was 17 and she was 16. And then when I turned 18, I was like, "Oh, my God." Like, "Could I get in jail for this?" I remember thinking that. Like, "Is this illegal?"
- JCJimmy Carr
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, 'cause it kind of technically is.I think if you're dating a girl like that, I mean this is 1985. So, Sa- so Gavin Newsom signed a law that could give judges a say on whether to list someone as a sex offender for having oral or aner- anal sex with a minor. The bill would expand-
- JCJimmy Carr
What?
- 58:14 – 1:20:48
Discipline, freedom, and taking reversible risks (plus a brief studio power outage)
- JRJoe Rogan
... depend upon what they wanna do and what th-, I mean, I'm a, the ter- the worst person to give that advice because I knew very... Because of my childhood and the way I grew up, very unstable, divorced parents, stepdad, moved to a new place all the time, I was terrified of rigidity. I was terrified of a job. I d- I just, I really felt like a loser because I felt like, "All these people can keep jobs. Why, why do I hate them so much?" And-
- JCJimmy Carr
Because it's, it's interesting. What I see in you, and I don't know you that well personally, but I, I see your work. And the, the, the thing flowing through it is discipline. Discipline and freedom seem to be the two things. And you go-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
And obviously, those things have been separated in our minds-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... that discipline and freedom are not the same. They're exactly the same. Discipline gives you freedom.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's Jocko Willink.
- JCJimmy Carr
B- but-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what he says.
- JCJimmy Carr
B- but he's g-
- JRJoe Rogan
Discipline equals freedom.
- JCJimmy Carr
Exactly right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Right? So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
... that idea of going, well, you, it's martial arts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Which is all discipline. It's standup, which I know is all discipline. It's all, it, everyone's got ideas.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJimmy Carr
Everyone talks a good game. It's in the execution.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
It's in doing it. So, that thing of like going, couldn't hold down a job. But I mean, you're pretty good at showing up to stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it was, I realized later that it was just I wasn't interested in those things, and what I was terrified of is being forced to do something that I wasn't interested forever.
- JCJimmy Carr
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I saw so many people that they would just wait until they got home every night and just get drunk and then do it all over again in the morning, and then their bodies were deteriorating and they all wound up getting cancer and getting sick and they all died young. And it was just, it was sad-
- JCJimmy Carr
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
... and depressing and, and gloomy.
- JCJimmy Carr
Well, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's work to live as opposed to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JCJimmy Carr
... live to work.
Episode duration: 2:48:21
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