The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2064 - Mike Baker
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,001 words- 0:00 – 1:37
Why Ukraine vanished from headlines after Oct 7
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, Mr. Baker.
- NANarrator
Well, and greetings to you, Mr. Brogan.
- JRJoe Rogan
We always have to bring you in when the world's fucked.
- NANarrator
(laughs) Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Someday, I'm gonna bring you in-
- MBMike Baker
It's nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when everything's great.
- MBMike Baker
That would be... You know what? I'd look forward to that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
And we, and we could just talk about other things but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Y- you are my go-to guy-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when there's international conflict, and I'm like, "What the fuck is going on?"
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So.
- MBMike Baker
I appreciate that because we have some conflict.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what I hear.
- NANarrator
God.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So what the fuck is going on, Mike Baker?
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Tell me, tell me-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the real deal.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's happening?
- MBMike Baker
Um, well, there's something happened in the Middle East, um, that's, uh, taking everybody's eye off the ball with what's happening in Ukraine. Um, which is amazing. I... 7 October happened with that incredible, medieval slaughter by Hamas, and I was amazed at how quickly, right? I, I mean, I, I guess I know that people have attention deficit disorder, but y- you didn't see anything about Ukraine or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's over.
- 1:37 – 5:25
Narrative reversal: Hamas’ strategy of embedding within civilians
- MBMike Baker
the number of days that it took to turn the narrative around, right? So everybody was horrified at how terrible the slaughter was, and then within a matter of days, it was like, "No, it's Israel's fault." Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
And, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
How did that happen?
- MBMike Baker
Hamas knew that was gonna happen because that's what they count on, which is why they embed themselves with civilians. It's why they put, you know, their, their operation centers, their tunnels, their, their weapon stockpiles, it's why they put it all underneath civilian infrastructure, like the Al Shifa Hospital that's been in the news lately and, and other places, because they know that they're gonna end up with dead Palestinians, right? And that's kinda... Uh, this sounds wrong, but it's kind of their currency, right? It's kinda what they expect. And they don't give a shit. I mean, you can see just by the way that Hamas has governed, if you can call it that, Gaza for... What is that? That's new math for me, but since 2006 really, um, they kicked out, uh, Fatah. They kicked out the Palestinian Authority in 2007. Um, so you can tell by the fact that they've done nothing to improve the lives of Palestinians. They don't give a shit about Palestinians, right? That's, that's not their point. Their point is the extermination of Israel because their, their overlord in the Iranian regime, that's, that's their purpose in life too. So it's... You know, I hate to start off on a really, really, you know, cynical rant, but, um, they know because they're very... They're clever. They've got a good public relations group, if you wanna call it that. They understand how international media works. They know that it won't take much time for, for condemnation of Israel because you end up with dead Palestinian civilians, which is incredibly sad, right? It's very sad for the, for the Palestinian people, right? Their plight is legitimately awful, right? But to imagine somehow that Hamas cares about them or was... has been some sort of benevolent... Benevo-... I knew I was gonna be able to say that.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a word.
- MBMike Baker
That's a fucking word. Benevolence.
- JRJoe Rogan
Benevolence.
- MBMike Baker
Wow. Um, governing body of Gaza is ridiculous. So I don't know. I, I guess it's hard to tell where I stand on this issue.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's so, it's so strange that some people, particularly like these really crazy leftists, have gone as far as saying they were happy when the slaughter took place.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've seen that. There was a-
- MBMike Baker
You, you've, you've had... You had staffers in the UN's refugee office. Not... I mean, again, keeping in perspective, not a lot of them. Maybe in private, they were. But you had some staffers celebrating openly, right? Through social media, about what happened on the 7th of October, right? Uh, you've got... Well, college campus is filled with useful idiots who are happy to, you know, spout the Hamas narrative. And you've had protests in the streets and some people, you know, earnestly, you know, hoping for a better situation for Palestine. You know, other folks couldn't find, you know, Gaza on a map if you took a map and shoved it up their ass, you know? It, it wouldn't work, right? They just... They don't care, you know? It's the, it's the latest thing. So I don't wanna put all the protesters in one camp because, you know, some are legitimately working to better the lives of Palestinians. And, and yes, you can feel awful about what happens with the civilians, um, but I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do after what happened on the 7th of October and after Hamas continued to say, "Well, we're just gonna keep doing this." Right? It wasn't like they said, "Well, there you go. That was a one-off." No. They said, "We're gonna keep doing this," because that's, that's their purpose in life, is the destruction of Israel. I mean, it, it... Believe people sometimes when they say things and, and, you know, that's what, that's what they mean.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs)
- MBMike Baker
It sucks.
- 5:25 – 7:27
Evidence claims: hospitals, hostages, and the media’s credulity
- JRJoe Rogan
The... That, that's something that people need to understand that they are embedding these troops and they're embedding these weapon stockpiles and all these different things in civilian infrastructure.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. There was a lot of... I think there's... Well, there has been a lot of skepticism-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... um, about that. And people saying, "No! That's Israel's excuse for, for targeting civilians." Um, and, you know, now we're getting, we're getting some pretty good evidence that that's not the case.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, isn't, isn't there a lot of that stuff blown up underneath?
- MBMike Baker
Uh, well, like, they just... They, they were just, uh, uh...... releasing evidence of what they found when they went into the, uh, Rantisi Children's Hospital in Gaza. Um, and again, weapons stockpiles, um, disturbingly, (sighs) makeshift rooms or holding cells, so it appears as if they could've been holding some of the hostages there, moved them before the, uh, IDF got in. Um, but they, you know, they've done the same with Al-Shifa. They've gone into this and s- That's a large, large hospital compound, and they have been saying for years that they use Al-Shifa as, essentially the, the, the command central point for the military structure there for Hamas, and also for, again, for weapons stockpiles. Um, I mean, you can't... You, you, you can't be more cynical as an organization, like Hamas, than to be storing ammunition and weapons underneath a children's hospital, as an example. I mean that... So, yeah. I think, I think the best thing that can happen... (sighs) Sounds weird to say that in a situation like this, but yeah, Israel needs to be very transparent. They need to provide as much evidence of this to try to shift that narrative, at least the people who, uh, aren't rabid about this, but have kind of jum- jumped on the, you know, Free Palestine bandwagon because they like to feel righteous, right? So, at least some of those people can you... You can shift off of that narrative by providing evidence, by being transparent. So, uh, you know, hopefully that's
- 7:27 – 13:02
Antisemitism, campus protests, and US political layers
- MBMike Baker
what the IDF does. The US has come out and said, "Look, we back up that intelligence. We have independent corroboration that they've been using Al-Shifa and other hospitals, um, Hamas has, you know, for their personnel, for their, for their stockpiles." (sighs) You know, the reality is, it's not going to change much of the narrative. I've been surprised by, (laughs) by apparently how many antisemitic bigots were just, like, in the shadows waiting-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... for an opportunity to jump out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Crazy, right?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The open antisemitism online is so shocking. People chanting in the streets, "Death to the Jews." Like, what?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, from a variety-
- JRJoe Rogan
In 2023, yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... of quarters. Yeah, yeah. In 2023, yeah. And yet, yet you... You know, I guess it's naïve to think that maybe we didn't have that problem (laughs) anymore, but um, it, it's there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, Jewish people have always been saying it, and a lot of people have been saying, "Oh, you guys are exaggerating."
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And now, I guess everybody has to shut the fuck up about that.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like-
- MBMike Baker
Well, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's not, it's not... They... Not only were they not exaggerating, they were kind of-
- MBMike Baker
(sighs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... underplaying it.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. I think, yeah. They, they were definitely underplaying it, but I think that if you, if you look at... Again, if you look at what's happening here in America, right? Um, there's layer- there's layers to it, right? You get, um... What's her name? Rashida Tlaib, um, the, uh, Palestinian American in Congress, and she's a member of whatever they call it, the Squad. And, you know, so she comes out, and sh- she's not, you know... She's fairly rabid, right? Meaning, eh, what she's saying about it is not particularly eloquent, right? And so she gets censured because, you know, she's just, like, out there spouting, um, almost what appears to be pro-Hamas or making some sort of equivalency, right? Saying, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, she tweeted the incorrect story-
- MBMike Baker
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... about the bombing of the hospital-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... being the responsibility of Israel and it wasn't.
- MBMike Baker
That's, that's actually a really... That's a great point, because the attacks took place on 7 October, and then a few days after, there was that, that, uh, explosion at the hospital. And not only Rashida Tlaib, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
The New York Times.
- MBMike Baker
... New York Times. Major news outlets took the word of Hamas, the group that had just, days before, conducted this awful slaughter, right? They took their word and said, "Oh, yeah, yeah. It was an Israeli (laughs) airstrike targeting a hospital."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
And they, they went with it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 13:02 – 17:44
What happens after Hamas: governance vacuum and US proposals
- MBMike Baker
Clearly, there's a lot of people who have no interest in that. So, I think they're feeling if we can degrade Hamas sufficiently, I don't think you ever destroy a, a terrorist organization or, or, you're certainly never gonna get terrorism down to nothing, right? It's not a, a zero-sum game. But if you can degrade it enough so that they can never govern again in Gaza, they can never, um, you know, conduct their terrorist operations again, at least you've advanced the ball towards something that could be more stable, right? Now, it depends on what backfills Hamas's governance of Gaza, and that's a massive question, right? But, anyway.
- JRJoe Rogan
Elon was on a podcast recently with Lex Fridman, and one of the things he was talking about was, like, with every civilian that, uh, Palestinian that dies, how many more members of Hamas have you created? And that's a very good point, right? Because-
- MBMike Baker
It's a very good point, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's thousands of civilians have died now.
- MBMike Baker
But Hamas has also spent, uh, years, um, kind of shaping curriculum, right? Teaching children to hate Israel, teaching children that, you know, killing Jews is, is kind of your, your, your, your lot in life, right? So, um, yes, I mean, but ... So then you're faced with this: what do we do? Do we keep them around? Do we allow them to keep doing what they're doing (laughs) ? Or do you try to r- you know, uh, remove that cancer, right? And do you try to say, "Okay, whatever comes in, maybe that's better." Look, it's not like the Palestinian people overwhelmingly support Hamas. I tell you, there was a, there was a, uh, a poll, believe it or not (laughs) , they're doing polls out in, in, in Gaza, uh, asking, uh, who is best served to represent the Palestinian people. Would it be Hamas or would it be Fatah? Would it be, you know, the ... And only 30% of, uh, o- of the people felt that, you know, Hamas was, you know, their, you know, their, their answer. Um, 40-plus percent said neither, right? So, it's not as if the Palestinian people are all out there, you know, cheering for Hamas, right? Clearly some are. Um, but we have to imagine, what does it look like? At some point, the conflict ends. At some point, they are degraded sufficiently. At some point, the international pressure is just to the point where they have to stop, I suppose. And then, then you have to ask, what does that look like? It can't be a long-term Israeli occupation. They don't want that. So, you know, the US steps in. (laughs) That's what the US administration always does. And they imagine that they've got an answer. And so they say, "Well, let's have the Palestinian Authority govern, um, Gaza," because the Palestinian Authority governed West Bank, of course. And we have this two government situation, because back in '06 or whenever, uh, '06 I believe, Hamas violently kicked out the Palestinian Authority, and they said, "We're taking over Gaza." So they took over Gaza. West Bank is left to, uh, the Palestinian Authority. So the US is saying, "Well, you know, we'll let Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority come in." Anthony Blinken goes over, talks to Abbas, you know, and they say, "Well, mm, maybe there's ..." Uh, you know, Israel is, is against the idea. Um, Pal-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why is, why is Israel against the idea?
- MBMike Baker
Well, they're saying, in part, they're, they're saying, in part, because ... Look, they're saying that Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority haven't even bothered to condemn what took place on the 7th of October. Right? So they say, "How can you, how can you then have the same group running?" He says, "It, they're, that's not a, a solution. That's not a- uh, advancing the ball in any way." Um, that's their point. The point of the Palestinian people is when you, you did that survey of who's best, you know, capable and, and who deserves to represent the Palestinian people, yeah, Hamas only got about 30% of the vote. Uh, Fatah got only 20% of the vote. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
So it's not like they want them there either. Um, but the US is kind of wedging that in as a scenario, saying, "Well, look, this is the way we go," just kind of like, you know, Biden comes in and says, "Well, we should have a, a pause. No, we should have a three-day pause. We should have ..." And, you know, they almost get a little petulant, because Israel's not listening to them. And Israel, you know, obviously gets a lot of support from the US. But this is, this time is different. This time is, you know ... I think what happened on the 7th of October, uh, marks a complete sea change from their perspective. So they're gonna do what they need to do from their perspective and move on. But that question of, again, what backfills, what comes in behind, is, is critical. But nobody's got a good answer.
- 17:44 – 25:11
How Oct 7 happened: intelligence failure, op-sec, and IRGC support
- JRJoe Rogan
From an intelligence perspective, how did that October 7th thing not get detected? I mean, doesn't the IDF, don't they have agents embedded in Hamas? Don't they, don't they have, like, uh, uh, the most intense security system ever and surveillance system ever?
- MBMike Baker
They do, yeah. And it was a massive intelligence failure. And, in part, it was a very, um, it w- it was a very ...... I don't want to say sophisticated. Sophisticated is the wrong word. But in terms of the planning of this, uh, if you're conducting an operation, or you're conducting a- a- any intelligence really, uh, concern, then the first thing you need to know (sighs) , need to worry about is need to know. Right? So, how do you limit information? How do you limit, how do you limit the dissemination of, of information about what you're doing? Um, and that's just good op sec, that's good operational security. Now, that's what they did. They displayed extremely sophisticated, I suppose, operational security over this. Because you're right, there's human sources that the IDF and, and Shin Bet and others in Israel have within Gaza. There's the communications intercepts, signals intelligence. Um, you know, there, there's just general surveillance that they're doing, uh, of the region in terms of movement of goods. But most of that movement of goods happens underground, right? 300 maybe, 300 miles of tunnels in Gaza that they've built, using money by the way (laughs) . Using money that was probably meant for clean water works and other infrastructure, and improving schools and hospitals. Um, that's a whole different angle to talk about. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... I think the security side of things, um, by doing that, by limiting who knows about the operation, and by ... Because again, they, you could legitimately argue the political leadership of Hamas, they had a sense, you know, I'm sure at some point they approved a large-scale operation. But the people who, who really knew about this were the, um, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC, which is, is an organization with the Iranian regime. And they're kind of the liaison partners for Hamas and Hezbollah. Um, they manage a lot of the training issues. They funnel a lot of the money that goes to these organizations that are Iranian proxies. And so, you can count on the fact that a limited number within the IRGC were aware of the planning and the training, because they did train Hamas operatives in Iran prior to 7 October. So, I think, yeah, the, it was simply a matter of them saying, "All right, this element, this cell will have knowledge of this during the course of training. This, these guys over here will know this. These people will know this." Um, and maybe a handful of people will understand the full picture, and will understand when we're going to do this. And it's all designed to keep it away from, um, from Israeli intelligence. And it was ridiculously successful in that regard. So, you know, and, and, and also you could argue intelligence is a human operation, so, or an endeavor, so you're going to have failures on occasion. You just don't want them to be this massive. Um, there were occasional comments about the inclination of Hamas to do something bigger. No details, no specific details. Um, and Hamas also spent a great deal of time leading up to this, con- I mean years, convincing, um, the Israeli government through their words, through their actions or lack of actions, that it was a new day, and that what they're looking to do is create a different dynamic or relationship with the Israeli government. And so the Israeli government became complacent, and when they became complacent, to some degree, over Hamas and the fact that there hadn't been any strikes or hadn't been any terrorist actions for a period of time, then what you saw was then they kind of turned inward. And people talk about the political divisions within Israel, and the fact that the government was in a bit of disarray and there was, it was a little dysfunctional, a lot of arguments going on. That in part was because, uh, you know, they had the, not the luxury, but the ability to kind of turn in on themselves, 'cause they didn't feel necessarily that that ex- uh, that threat outside was as bad as it had been, right? And that they thought perhaps it's diminishing, perhaps, you know, Hamas is changing its tune. And that was a deliberate attempt by Hamas to lull them into that state, right? And so there were, there were a lot of things going on at the same time. But yeah, it, there's no way around it, it's a massive intelligence failure.
- JRJoe Rogan
The most cynical and conspiratorial take on it is that they let it happen because this is the best way to destroy Hamas, that they knew it was going to happen, so they allowed it to take place.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, that's, that's pretty cynical. Um, yeah, I mean, if, if you can get your head around that idea that they said, "Yeah, we're gonna let Hamas," or, you know, somehow encourage Hamas to come in and slaughter all these women, babies, children, men, um, I suppose that's, you know, if someone can get there, then God bless them, that's their right (laughs) . But, uh, I'm not buying it. Um, you know, I've seen, I've seen intelligence failures before. I know it can happen. No matter how many cameras you've got up, no matter how, how good your signals intelligence intercepts are, they dumb that down, right? I'm not calling anybody on the phone, 'cause I know you're gonna pick that up, right? I'm not gonna talk about this anywhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
I'm gonna hand a note to my cousin, you know, who runs a, you know, a part of a battalion in, in Hamas, you know, and they got, whatever, two dozen battalions. So, but I'm gonna keep that communication as stupid as I can. That's what Al-Qaeda did, right? And, and they dumbed it down, and it becomes much more difficult. They limit the number of sources who know about it. That limits your target pool of, of assets, who can tell you something, um, from a human perspective. And, you know, but again, people are gonna ... I've, I've seen some pretty wacky conspiracy theories come out of this since 7 October, right? And, you know, um, I, I'm not buying that one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The, the most conspiratorial was that, uh, Netanyahu was kind of on the way out with the people, and that this is, uh, the way for him to sort of galvanize everybody and get support and maintain power and-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And then do what he actually wanted to do. Go in there and attack Hamas.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's one theory.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Um, but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
When you have-
- MBMike Baker
... yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... ever you have something this chaotic, you're always going to have a bunch of wacky theories.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and, uh, you know, I get that, um, 'cause you have a lot of people who, you know, still refuse to believe that, you know, Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinians. And again, I keep going back to the same thing, which is, well, take a look at Gaza, you know, and, uh, uh, tell me what Hamas has done for the people of Gaza. Because again, Palestinian people aren't lined up 100% behind them. You know, in fact, there's, you know, there's been reports of looting of Hamas, uh, facilities since they've been losing their grip on, on power.
- 25:11 – 34:09
Follow the money: aid pipelines, Hamas corruption, and tunnel ‘taxes’
- MBMike Baker
Um, the Hamas leadership structure is enormously wealthy. Right? They've, they've stolen billions of dollars, um, that was theoretically intended for Palestinian improvements.
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you explain that?
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, how did they get a hold of the money and then how is the money allocated? Like say, where is the money coming from when they get money for the improvements-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of sanitation and education and schools and all that? Wha-
- MBMike Baker
It comes from, it, it comes from a variety of sources. Look, I think the, the EU, the European Union, is, I think, the largest donor still to the Palestinian, uh, people. And it comes through various, um, uh, organizations. So, uh, uh, the United Nations, the refugee office, uh, UNRW, um, the US aid, USAID, um, and other, and some NGOs, and, uh, well, quite a few NGOs. So, money is donated or allocated by governments, and the US is, US is given billions of dollars, um, to, through these organizations for the, uh, improvement of, uh, Palestinian lives, right? For ... And, and part of that came out of the Oslo Accord, um, the idea being, you know, band together, um, improve the infrastructure for the Palestinians, create this, because that will march towards more stability and eventually maybe that allows for a solution, a final, you know, that, that will e- eventually come about in, whether it's a two-state solution or however it's worked out. So, that money flows in. But since 2007, Hamas (laughs) controls what goes. It's like, it's like when we give money to, uh, the Taliban now. Giving money to the Taliban in Afghanistan. And we like to pretend like they're going to use it for good causes. We like to pretend we know where it's going or how it's being handled. But this money flows into these various organizations and Hamas controls what happens, right? So, one way or another, they get their hands on that money and they decide what they want to do with it. And for the most part, it has been for the, uh, for the betterment of Hamas as an organization, in part because that's what Iran expects them to do. And Iran also provides them with funds. Um, not the Palestinian people. Iran directly funds Hamas. So, over the years, they have, the leadership, and particularly the p- the political leadership, who all basically live outside the, of Gaza, they li- in Doha, in, in, in Qatar, um ... You know, some reports, and c- they're confirmed by the US Treasury, it's not just the Israelis saying this, you know, they're billionaires at this stage of life. And you know, one of them's got a couple of kids who are on Instagram, right? And they're flying on private jets and they're, you know, they probably went to the World Cup when it was in Doha. And it's, (laughs) it's, it's ludicrous because billions of dollars that literally were meant to provide clean water or better schools or whatever, and people just, you know, continue to shake their fists and say, "It's all Israel's fault."
- JRJoe Rogan
How is the money allocated and where does it go and how does Hamas get their hands on the money? Like, what, what is, what's the expectations when they're giving this money? And how ... I mean, I don't understand.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
If they know that it's going to Hamas, why are they still sending money?
- MBMike Baker
Well, in part because, um, that's, that's the purpose. So do y- so the US funds ... Say the US says, "Okay, this year we're giving, whatever, $400 million, uh, through these various aid organizations." Now, the aid organizations, at some point, on the ground, right? Have to make a difference, right? They have to ... So, money has to go somewhere. It has to go to, uh, middlemen. It has to go to somebody running a business who's then going to provide resources, whatever that is. Uh, grain, something, whatever. Transportation, trucking, to move things around Gaza. Whatever it is. And Hamas, um, it's like, it, they, it's like a criminal gang, right? It's like an extortion racket almost. They, they take their cut, um, they tax, uh, the, uh, resources that are brought in, right? Um, most of those things have to move, most ef- efficient way to move goods and services (laughs) through Gaza at this point because of all the work they've done on the tunnels is the tunnels, so they tax goods moving through the tunnels. They make their money, right? And then, and I don't wanna ... I'm not equating Hamas necessarily to a, to a mob, but it's kinda what they've been doing. And so, now the money that comes from Iran, that's a different, that's, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's direct to Hamas.
- MBMike Baker
That's direct to Hamas. Again, they take their cut, right? Hive it off. But then they spend it because that, they're beholden to Iran. They spend it on what they're supposed to, which is, you know, more weapons, uh, more gear, uh, paying their, their fighters. Um, and so, yeah, I just, I keep coming back around to, to this notion that, you know, the Palestinian people have been getting screwed, you know, left and right. There's no doubt about it, right? And, um-... civilian casualties are, are, are tragic and sad, right? But we live in a very pragmatic world, you know, hopefully. We're not... I mean, you can't, you can't rule this thing by feelings and hope and, you know, positivity. It's not... It's... Hamas chose a certain path, and they have to be dealt with, right? Because, um, if you stop and allow them to say, "Okay. Well, Hamas is still there. They're still running things," nothing, nothing changes. Doesn't improve the lives of the Palestinians, right? Continues to fuel and fund terror. So okay, fine, if you feel better about a ceasefire and kicking the can down the road, but you're not... Don't, don't pretend like you're solving something, you know? So...
- JRJoe Rogan
So when the money gets allocated, so say if there's money that's being sent to Palestine for clean water and all, who's receiving that money?
- MBMike Baker
Well, it goes... It, it's funneled through the organization, so like that money is, is, is, think about it like a bank account, it's deposited with the UN Refugee Office.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- MBMike Baker
They decide. They allocate, um, because they have essentially vendors, right? Who are saying, "Okay, we're going to provide whatever, penicillin," or, "We're going to provide hospital beds or..." So they, they're, they're parsing this out to a variety of vendors, both in, in, uh... And, and you know, there's an, uh, an attempt to try to ensure that it's Palestinian businesses, and Hamas also runs enterprises overseas, right? So, uh, or sorry, outside of Gaza. So they run, you know, businesses, uh, in, uh, Turkey and a variety of other countries, right? Um, so sometimes that money is going to a Hamas-controlled business, right? To then purchase what, theoretically purchase whatever is necessary. Um, we shouldn't imagine that Hamas is... They're not like Al-Qaeda. They're not sitting in a cave somewhere, right? They've been doing this for a while and, um, you know, it's, it's a bit like, uh, it's a little bit like the IRA. The IRA started out with a very clear mandate, right? Eventually, an element of it was just about drugs and, and guns, and, you know, money. Um, so yeah, I keep coming back around to Hamas. (laughs) They, they realized they got a good thing going, right? Stability is not going to keep that gravy train running. So, you know, peace with Israel, that cuts off a, a revenue stream from Hamas, right? In a sense, even though they still... Theoretically, they could be smart and they could say, "Okay, if we have peace with Israel, then we establish a long-term governance thing here, then we can keep that gravy train going." But, um, you know, they would lose their funding from Iran because, you know, the last thing Iran wants is peaceful coexistence with Israel. And part of this was, they looked at the Saudis talking to Israel. They looked at the possibility of that, meaning that there would be normalized relations with Israel, and they're just not gonna allow that to happen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- MBMike Baker
And so... And for the time being, it worked, right? You got... I mean, look, you've got, uh... What are there? How many members of the Arab... I believe there's 22 member states in the Arab League, and there's maybe half a dozen that recognize Israel. Iran doesn't want any more. They certainly don't want the Saudis, right? Uh, because that could be a sea change in terms of other countries going, "Yeah, it does make sense. Maybe if we, maybe if we do that, maybe if we normalize relations, then maybe that means better prosperity, more stability, economic development. Maybe that's a good thing for our people." But again, that would imply that Israel has a right to exist, and the Israeli- Iranian regime draws a line at that.
- JRJoe Rogan
(Tim sighs)
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- 34:09 – 37:05
Regional escalation risks: Hezbollah, Yemen, and the Iran ‘center of gravity’
- JRJoe Rogan
What is the, the worst-case scenario here?
- MBMike Baker
Uh... (laughs) Well, the Biden administration would tell you the worst-case scenario is we get into a shooting match with the Iranian regime, right? Again, this is not the Iranian people. The Iranian people have an amazing, rich history and, and, um, you know, they've been under the thumb of the, of the ayatollahs for, you know, all these years. I suspect there's a number of them who would like to see a sea change in Iran, right? But I think the... You know, from the Biden administration's perspective, a regional conflict that expands, right? And not just the, not just Hezbollah up north, um, really getting into it, and things are heating up up there, right? So it's getting a little testier up there with, with, uh, with Hezbollah in, in Lebanon, but a, a wider conflict than that, right? And, you know, look, the, the Iranian proxies, uh, in Yemen have been, you know, firing their own missiles towards Israel, not with much success, but you're g- you know, you're getting these little, you know, probes there. Iran, uh, I think would stop short of being directly involved, you know? They've got enough in the way of proxy groups to probably keep this going for some time, but I think the, uh, the goal here should be, yes, not a wider regional conflict, but you have to be pragmatic and understand that this is all emanating from, originating from the Iranian regime, right? So if Hamas is sorted out and the conflict as it currently stands, uh, ends, and you don't get something bigger up north with Hezbollah, you still have the Iranian regime sitting here. They still have proxies. Even if Hamas is degraded, it's not like that's down to zero. Um, the problem continues to exist. So the best answer... I know you, I know you asked about the worst situation, but the best situation would be if the Saudis and other nations-... in that region would normalize relations with Israel. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that possible now after all this?
- MBMike Baker
Um, yeah. I, I think it is. I think it is. I think the Saudis realized that they were gonna have to, you know, back off, um, for the time being. Uh, it's- it puts them in a- in an interesting situation. But I do think that they'll look at it in the long term and think, "Yeah, we have to- I think we have to- we have to move in that direction." Uh, who knows how long it could take. So, you can be hopeful, I think, about that. Um, but- You know, I mean, until- You know, as long as the-
- 37:05 – 50:19
Biden’s Iran sanctions waiver and the ‘fungible money’ argument
- MBMike Baker
as long as the IRGC, the Iranian regime, runs Iran, we're still gonna be dealing with this problem. Right? It's not gonna go away. Now, interesting thing. (laughs) I'm- I forgot about this. Um, the Iranian proxies have launched, I don't know now, we're almost at 60. 60 different attacks, right? Drone attacks, missile attacks on a variety of, of US, uh, facilities and bases and personnel in Iraq and Syria. Uh, since 17 October. What is that? That's- so we're going on a month, right? A month and you've had about 60 attacks. You've had almost 60 US servicemen injured, some seriously. Um, and yet, uh, I think it was- I think they made the announcement yesterday afternoon during a, uh, a quiet time in the press room, but the Biden administration, uh, has agreed to extend a sanction waiver for Iran, and we're giving them $10 billion. $10 billion in what had been frozen assets owed by Iraq, right, to Iran for essentially- well, for the most part, for electricity, right? For purchasing. They, they get a significant amount of their, uh, energy supply from Iran. So Iraq, I think gets almost half or 40, 40%, 45% of their energy supply from Iran. So you had $10 billion sitting there, uh, frozen assets. And so in the past 24 hours, despite the Iranian proxies doing this for the past month and before. They were- To be fair, they were launching missiles at, at our- some of our facilities in the Middle East before the, uh, the conflict with Hamas. Um, they've decided that a good idea is to release the $10 billion and, uh, it's again for- gonna be- it's gonna be for humanitarian aid, they say. And, and they won't be able to use it for anything else. That's what they, they tell us. The State Department's very clear on that. They're saying, "No, it's just for humanitarian aid. There's no way they can use it for anything else," which is what they said about the six billion that they fro- or they, uh, uh, unfroze before this, this situation kicked off at the beginning of October. And, you know, to that the Iranian president said, "Hey, we'll use it for whatever we want to." Right? And money's fungible, so if you give me $10 billion and tell me I can only spend it on, on beer, um, okay. Well, I'll take $10 billion that I have over in this pot that I was gonna spend on beer and I'll spend it on, on ammunition, right? It's, it's all- it's fungible. So it's, it's re- it's a ridiculous argument. And then the State Department compounded the ridiculous discussion by saying, "Well..." Uh, I forget who it was. It was one of their spokesmen, Miller or somebody. He said, "Well, look. Eh, you know, they've been fomenting trouble and creating chaos and, and causing trouble..." I know I'm paraphrasing. Um, "before this 10 billion and they're gonna keep doing it regardless of whether they get the funds. So fine, let's just give them the money."
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, "They choose to fund destabilizing activities first," he added.
- MBMike Baker
Ah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"They always have as far as we can tell, they always will, so when it- looking at this money, we see the benefit to allowing these funds to move again to restricted accounts where they can only benefit the Iranian people." That doesn't make any sense.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, how are these people doing this?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, they've decided that-
- JRJoe Rogan
But why would they decide that?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what I don't understand. What- what's in it for them?
- MBMike Baker
I- You know, the optic is awful, right? That-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
It's, it's not as if, you know, the, the American public's gonna look at that and go, "Yeah, that makes sense. We've been reading headlines about these missile and drone strikes caused by Iranian proxies now for the past four weeks, so sure, it makes sense to us that President Biden's decided that this is okay." Uh, so I don't- I don't understand. I'm confused over what they think. And they- the idea that they somehow imagine that this money won't be used for, uh, you know, purposes other than what they're expecting is- I think is ludicrous. Um, but I- just- if you- if all, if all you said was just from the optic, even if they could- even if they could control how that money is spent, politically the optic is awful, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
And so it's a- it's a confusing thing from this, this administration. I don't- I don't understand it. And it's the wrong t- Anyway, I mean, aside from that it's the wrong direction. We should be going in the other direction. We should be- You know, Iran has, um, you know, they, they have, (sighs) you know, realized, uh, I don't wanna say a windfall, but, um, their, their oil, you know, revenues, um, have not been degraded. We have not really gone after their energy sector in terms of sanctions. Um, and so we should be going after that. We should be really stepping on the gas in terms of saying, "That's enough," right? I mean, because what have we done? We've had three responses to the missile and drone strikes that they've been responsible for over the past four weeks. Three responses. And after every response, we just get more missile and drone attacks. So it's not deterrence. We're not doing anything to deter the behavior.... right? We're just- we're- it's almost like a- a political decision saying, "Well, we gotta show the American public we're doing something and we take it seriously, so let's blow up a weapons depot in Eastern Syria." And it's- it's doing nothing to deter the attacks. So, I don't think giving them $10 billion, if maybe that's their calculation, if we give them something, they'll stop. I mean, that's awful (laughs) . I- I- I don't think they're that stupid, so that can't be the reason. Uh, so I don't understand. It's- it's a- it's a confusing decision on their part.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does anybody have any sort of rational argument for why they're doing it?
- MBMike Baker
Not that I've seen. But, I mean, I- I'm gonna keep looking. Maybe there- maybe there is one. It'd be nice to think, 'cause look, you know, you should- you should want the US government to do well (laughs) , you know, regardless. We gotta, you know, at some point you gotta say, "Okay, I don't care whether they're Democrats or Republicans, I just want them to do well, because that's good for us-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... you know, as- as- uh, i- in the US." Whether it's an economic issue or a national security issue. So, uh, but I haven't seen a- I haven't seen a logical argument. It's- it's a new development. They've just basically announced this. Um, and (laughs) , yeah, I- again, it- it- it makes no sense. They were- they were incredibly reluctant at the outset of this conflict to even mention Iran, right? They were very... And in part because they've, uh, they've spent three years now, uh, with a soft approach, right? To- to- trying to get back into a- a deal of some sort with them over, uh, the nuke weapons program. Uh, and they've been taking this- this, uh, approach that said, "Well, Trump had maximum pressure, so that had to be wrong. Had to be wrong." And just like with everything else that Trump did, they just reversed it. You know, like the border controls, right? "No, that's all- that's all bad," you know? And- and so we just have to throw it all out. And they kind of did that, and they brought into their, um, to their various Iran-focused, Iran-forward positions, whether at the Pentagon or the State Department, they brought in people who were like-minded, who wanted a softer approach. And that, in part, was probably driven by an effort by the Iranians, by the IRGC, the Iran Rev- the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. They- they were running an influence campaign here in the States. They've been running it r- for almost 10 years now, where they have worked to discredit any viable, uh, opposition to the Iranian regime, and they have, uh, encouraged and supported h- um, uh, the Iran Experts Initiative, I think it was called, IEI. And that was a bunch of academics and others who, you know, uh, all believed in the same soft approach to Iran and changing the narrative. And that's where you got, you know, the US special envoy to, uh, to Iran in the Biden administration, Robert, uh, Malley, who's now suspended, had his security clearances pulled. There's no real, uh, curious journalists asking where that stands, right? Uh, you've got, uh, an individual over at the Pentagon who, uh, still there, still in a job, and, um, has been promoting, again, this idea that, you know, we have to change direction with Iran. So, you know, there's- there's (sighs) - I- I know I'm kind of wandering down a- a weird path there, but I- I guess it's not a surprise. It's just an odd decision, right? From the Biden administration. And you would think at this stage of the game, if you're not convinced that you need to change course with the Iranian regime and treat them differently... Every time we try to shake their hand, they smack it away, right? They- I don't know how many times that has to happen before the Biden administration learns that's not the way to deal with them, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Just disappearing down a rabbit hole.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just doesn't seem like there's any... It doesn't seem like there's any rational solution to this. This is what seems so fucked, to someone that's watching. There's no like, "Oh, well, hopefully this'll happen and it'll all work out."
- MBMike Baker
Inhales ] Yeah. Um. This is gonna sound weird, but I think (laughs) long-term peace and stability in the Middle East, right? Any road you want to take of a serious means to get to long-term stability and peace and prosperity and- and a better life for- whether it's Palestinians or anyone else out there, uh, I think that road leads through the Iranian regime, and we have to deal with them. And I don't mean militarily, right? I mean, we have to... You know, although (laughs) , if they keep- if they keep this up, right? I mean, if- if- if one of these missiles hits one of these facilities and kills a, you know, God forbid, a, you know, a number of US servicemen, then what? What- what the hell are we gonna do? Are we gonna pretend like Iran still has nothing to do with it? We gotta, you know, unfreeze more assets? At some point, we've gotta have the stones to actually deal with them, because it's gonna be easier doing that now than when they have a nuke. Right? And I- I- I just- I- I'm curious as to what the current administration is thinking about in terms of their policy towards Iran. I- I- I don't- I don't, uh, I don't profess to understand it, but I do think that, um, you know, that- that you can't have stability. Every time you're gonna get your way towards peace and stability in the Middle East in some fashion, the Iranian regime's gonna screw it up. Because peace and stability means you're- we- we're talking about Israel. And peace and stability would, again, would imply that means they have a right to exist. A- and every time you get near that, then I think the Iranian regime will do whatever they can to stop that from happening. So, at some point, we gotta- we gotta deal with it. And, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's the difference between the way this administration handled it and the previous administration?
- MBMike Baker
Um, it- it- I think it was mostly the attention to the sanctions and, uh, the economic pressure, right, on them and trying to enforce those sanctions. Um, you know, there was- (sighs) again, not- not- not touting for- for the previous administration either, but just saying that their approach was tougher when it came to sanctions. Their approach was, "We have an adversary here. We're not trying to become friends with them right now," right? Because that's not their mindset, right? I mean, it's- it's like when you- you know, someone keeps, you know, telling their kid, "Well look, the bully, just keep putting your hand out and trying to shake his hand and, you know, trying to be his friend. Maybe he's just misunderstood or he's lacking confidence and- and he keeps punching you in the nose," right? At some point you gotta figure out, "Okay, the- I gotta do something different here." So, I think the previous administration, they were- they were much tougher on the sanctions, um, and they- they had a- an approach, much like with China, right? We- you know, they're- they're a- a- yes they're a competitor, but they're an adversary, and- and Xi's got a- a plan that gets him to the top of the food chain. The Iranian regime has a plan that destroys Israel, right? That's their goal. So, uh, I think that's what it was. I think the Biden administration is more inclined to think that we can all become a community of nations, right? Unicorns flying out our ass and everybody's singing Kumbaya, whatever the hell that song was. Um, so, uh ... I sound like a cynical asshole.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, you sound like someone who actually knows what the fuck is going on, which is scary.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
This administration's so goofy. They're so wei- it's so ... I just don't understand any of this.
- 50:19 – 54:51
China–US summit, ‘cleaned up’ San Francisco, and climate diplomacy skepticism
- MBMike Baker
Well, you know what's happening right now while we're talking? Um, Biden is sitting down. He might even be- might even be right now sitting down with, uh, Xi Jinping in, uh, San Francisco.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you see how they cleaned up San Francisco?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Doesn't it look good? I wanna buy a condo there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't that amazing?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic. It's, uh- yeah, it's crazy because- because that city was a- a- a shithole. A beautiful, beautiful physical setting, right? Great place. But it was a shithole. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it still is.
- MBMike Baker
Still is, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you hear that, uh- what was it? Some news organization from another country got robbed at gunpoint?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah, a camera crew-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... got- got robbed, um, covering the convention. Look this- this- this APEC convention is there for the week. Uh, today is the big day when Xi and- and Biden sit down and talk, and, um, supposedly (laughs) leading up to this, Biden's main point during a press conference was, you know, the climate- climate crisis. Um, like Xi gives a fuck about the climate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) It's just- so again, it kinda- it all kinda falls together in this like- this- this world that the- the current administration is living in. And I- you know, hey, it'd be lovely if that was the case and that was our biggest issue. But I'm hoping that part of this is not, um- that- that they don't spend a lot of time talking. And- and although having said that, John Kerry was- was there in San Francisco because he's our climate czar and he, uh, proudly announced whenever, yesterday or the day before, that part of this meeting will be to agree to a- uh, to- to resume the Climate- whatever it was called- Climate Working Group. So, the Chinese and Americans will- will get together now and will- will be reenergized to talk about, you know, uh, how we can both improve the climate. Meanwhile, a very- very, uh, reputable report came out and said that, um, uh, China- the Chinese regime is building six times more coal plants than the rest of the world combined currently. They're basically building two coal plants a week, uh, in terms of looking at- at their construction and the permitting process. Um, and, you know, people are saying, "Well-" you know, they're trying to find excuses. "Well, you know, it's because they want to back up-" you know, look, they're the biggest, you know, uh, purveyor of- of, uh, renewable s- energy so they just want the coal in case there's a- they need a backup and that's bullshit. You know? Xi looks at- at coal as- as a- as a real driver in terms of energy security. So anyway, they're- I- my point being is they're gonna sit down and John Kerry spews his crap about, you know, they're gonna- look at this, "We're working together to save the planet," and- and China is just digging coal as fast as they can. It's f- it's- I- I've- I find that part funny because it- it just shows that we- we're still misunderstanding, uh, you know, the CCP and how they operate. It's- it's fantastic. Um, but I hope- I hope they do come to some agreements, because again, you want them to. You want the dialogue. You want these two countries talking. We don't even have consistent communication right now between the militaries, right? I mean, if we get sideways with each other and you need to de-conflict, um, you know, that's- that's a good thing if you have regular consistent conversation between the military command structures, and we don't have that right now. You would think that the President of the United States and the president of- or the head of China, no matter who's in the White House, you would think that we would just be having regularly, uh, you know, conversations maybe once a quarter, right? Between ... That would make sense, but we don't do that. I mean, it's- it- it's kind of fucked up. So hopefully they come to terms on- on a couple of things. I'm sure one will be the Climate Working Group. Um, they are supposed to come up with an agreement on- uh, what was it? On the use of AI in, uh, unmanned weapon systems and in, uh, the, uh, command and control systems for nuke weapons. Um, I don't say nuclear because for some reason that's a tough word and I always get, you know, jammed up on nuclear and then people say, "You just said nuclear."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
And that's all I get. I get- I get 2,000, uh, you know, Twitter messages saying, "What the fuck's wrong with you? You can't say nuclear." And so I just say nuke now.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
Fuck nuclear. Anyway, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think a better solution is stop reading Twitter.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, although- although I- I, uh...... no, you're right. Actually, that is, that is probably the- you, and you've told me that before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Don't, just don't read what, what people write.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not good for you.
- 54:51 – 1:29:27
Mike Baker’s podcast growth and how he builds the daily brief
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Uh, although I've been getting a lot of compliments about The President's Daily Brief.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's great.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Did I just throw that out there?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Good for you.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah. It's number one on Spotify News now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck yeah.
- MBMike Baker
I know. That was my-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome.
- MBMike Baker
My primary goal was to beat NPR, um, and w- and we did. And, uh, and now we've done a, uh, we're doing an afternoon edition too. So, you get your PDB in the morning, The President's Daily Brief, and then in the afternoon, on your way home or when you're unwinding over a cocktail, you get the afternoon bulletin. And, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been a great experience. But I digress. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you enjoy diving into all this stuff now 'cause you're, you're doing this podcast?
- MBMike Baker
I do. I mean, I always, uh, I, I always have, right? So, this is just a nice, um ... I mean, I, I don't even- I hate to say it, I don't even view it as, as work or anything, right? It's just- because it's interesting and it's the shit that I would be reading and thinking about anyway, uh, which means I've got a sad, sad, uh, daytime life there. Um, although I've got the world's greatest life. But I think, um, uh, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a straightforward process. Um, the folks that work on it with me, they do a great job. We talk in the morning about, you know, what are the topics that we think are gonna be the hot ones for the day that we, sorry, that we need to cover the next morning. So, we talk about that. We put it together. We finalize the morning edition by late in the evening. Now, we're doing the afternoon bulletin, so we're kinda doing the same thing, but in a much shorter view. Um, and it's ... Yeah, I, I, I just, I enjoy it, because I like, for whatever reason, you wanna know what the hell's going on in the world, particularly when it's as fucked up as it is now, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
So, you end up kinda diving in. But you don't dive into social media sites, right? I don't, you know ... Don't, don't get your news from there. You get your news from, you know, reputable sources, if there still are some. But you read a variety of them, so hopefully it, it balances out. And, um, yeah. I, I spend a ridiculous amount of time. And then, and then my boys, you know, the, uh, Scooter and Sluggo and Mugsy, they have to, they have to put up with it, right? They have to listen to me bang on about shit, right? And, and so usually, uh, if I'm driving one of them to school in the morning, that's when I, I kinda talk to them about things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, boy.
- MBMike Baker
And they're like ... Oh, yeah. I know, exactly. That's what you want when you're a 16 or, you know, a 12-year-old or ... You know, the, uh, the middle boy, he's, uh, he's still out at boarding school at IMG. Uh, so he doesn't have to listen to me anymore as much. Um, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... I tell you, that's an operation. IMG, fantastic. He's really loved it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Uh, not that you asked. But I love talking about him.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is IMG?
- MBMike Baker
Uh, it's, it's a, it's an academy. It's a boarding school down in, uh, Bradenton, Florida. And he started there in, uh, uh, late August. Uh, plays basketball. And, uh, it started as a, as a tennis, uh, program. Nick Bollettieri. So, Agassi and a bunch of folks went there. And then they built it up, and it's an amazing. It's like a D-I campus. Um, and they do a great job. So, he's, he's loving it down there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Their weight room's crazy.
- MBMike Baker
Look at that weight room.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- MBMike Baker
I mean, am I- uh, yeah, exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's like a m- like a major sports team's-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... weight room.
Episode duration: 2:23:30
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode wwRVmSOEga8
