The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2064 - Mike Baker
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,001 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Hello, Mr. Baker.
- NANarrator
Well, and greetings to you, Mr. Brogan.
- JRJoe Rogan
We always have to bring you in when the world's fucked.
- NANarrator
(laughs) Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Someday, I'm gonna bring you in-
- MBMike Baker
It's nice.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when everything's great.
- MBMike Baker
That would be... You know what? I'd look forward to that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
And we, and we could just talk about other things but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Y- you are my go-to guy-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when there's international conflict, and I'm like, "What the fuck is going on?"
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So.
- MBMike Baker
I appreciate that because we have some conflict.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what I hear.
- NANarrator
God.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So what the fuck is going on, Mike Baker?
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Tell me, tell me-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the real deal.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's happening?
- MBMike Baker
Um, well, there's something happened in the Middle East, um, that's, uh, taking everybody's eye off the ball with what's happening in Ukraine. Um, which is amazing. I... 7 October happened with that incredible, medieval slaughter by Hamas, and I was amazed at how quickly, right? I, I mean, I, I guess I know that people have attention deficit disorder, but y- you didn't see anything about Ukraine or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's over.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Why is, why is…
- MBMike Baker
you know, their, you know, their, their answer. Um, 40-plus percent said neither, right? So, it's not as if the Palestinian people are all out there, you know, cheering for Hamas, right? Clearly some are. Um, but we have to imagine, what does it look like? At some point, the conflict ends. At some point, they are degraded sufficiently. At some point, the international pressure is just to the point where they have to stop, I suppose. And then, then you have to ask, what does that look like? It can't be a long-term Israeli occupation. They don't want that. So, you know, the US steps in. (laughs) That's what the US administration always does. And they imagine that they've got an answer. And so they say, "Well, let's have the Palestinian Authority govern, um, Gaza," because the Palestinian Authority governed West Bank, of course. And we have this two government situation, because back in '06 or whenever, uh, '06 I believe, Hamas violently kicked out the Palestinian Authority, and they said, "We're taking over Gaza." So they took over Gaza. West Bank is left to, uh, the Palestinian Authority. So the US is saying, "Well, you know, we'll let Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority come in." Anthony Blinken goes over, talks to Abbas, you know, and they say, "Well, mm, maybe there's ..." Uh, you know, Israel is, is against the idea. Um, Pal-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why is, why is Israel against the idea?
- MBMike Baker
Well, they're saying, in part, they're, they're saying, in part, because ... Look, they're saying that Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority haven't even bothered to condemn what took place on the 7th of October. Right? So they say, "How can you, how can you then have the same group running?" He says, "It, they're, that's not a, a solution. That's not a- uh, advancing the ball in any way." Um, that's their point. The point of the Palestinian people is when you, you did that survey of who's best, you know, capable and, and who deserves to represent the Palestinian people, yeah, Hamas only got about 30% of the vote. Uh, Fatah got only 20% of the vote. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
So it's not like they want them there either. Um, but the US is kind of wedging that in as a scenario, saying, "Well, look, this is the way we go," just kind of like, you know, Biden comes in and says, "Well, we should have a, a pause. No, we should have a three-day pause. We should have ..." And, you know, they almost get a little petulant, because Israel's not listening to them. And Israel, you know, obviously gets a lot of support from the US. But this is, this time is different. This time is, you know ... I think what happened on the 7th of October, uh, marks a complete sea change from their perspective. So they're gonna do what they need to do from their perspective and move on. But that question of, again, what backfills, what comes in behind, is, is critical. But nobody's got a good answer.
- JRJoe Rogan
From an intelligence perspective, how did that October 7th thing not get detected? I mean, doesn't the IDF, don't they have agents embedded in Hamas? Don't they, don't they have, like, uh, uh, the most intense security system ever and surveillance system ever?
- MBMike Baker
They do, yeah. And it was a massive intelligence failure. And, in part, it was a very, um, it w- it was a very ...... I don't want to say sophisticated. Sophisticated is the wrong word. But in terms of the planning of this, uh, if you're conducting an operation, or you're conducting a- a- any intelligence really, uh, concern, then the first thing you need to know (sighs) , need to worry about is need to know. Right? So, how do you limit information? How do you limit, how do you limit the dissemination of, of information about what you're doing? Um, and that's just good op sec, that's good operational security. Now, that's what they did. They displayed extremely sophisticated, I suppose, operational security over this. Because you're right, there's human sources that the IDF and, and Shin Bet and others in Israel have within Gaza. There's the communications intercepts, signals intelligence. Um, you know, there, there's just general surveillance that they're doing, uh, of the region in terms of movement of goods. But most of that movement of goods happens underground, right? 300 maybe, 300 miles of tunnels in Gaza that they've built, using money by the way (laughs) . Using money that was probably meant for clean water works and other infrastructure, and improving schools and hospitals. Um, that's a whole different angle to talk about. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... I think the security side of things, um, by doing that, by limiting who knows about the operation, and by ... Because again, they, you could legitimately argue the political leadership of Hamas, they had a sense, you know, I'm sure at some point they approved a large-scale operation. But the people who, who really knew about this were the, um, Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC, which is, is an organization with the Iranian regime. And they're kind of the liaison partners for Hamas and Hezbollah. Um, they manage a lot of the training issues. They funnel a lot of the money that goes to these organizations that are Iranian proxies. And so, you can count on the fact that a limited number within the IRGC were aware of the planning and the training, because they did train Hamas operatives in Iran prior to 7 October. So, I think, yeah, the, it was simply a matter of them saying, "All right, this element, this cell will have knowledge of this during the course of training. This, these guys over here will know this. These people will know this." Um, and maybe a handful of people will understand the full picture, and will understand when we're going to do this. And it's all designed to keep it away from, um, from Israeli intelligence. And it was ridiculously successful in that regard. So, you know, and, and, and also you could argue intelligence is a human operation, so, or an endeavor, so you're going to have failures on occasion. You just don't want them to be this massive. Um, there were occasional comments about the inclination of Hamas to do something bigger. No details, no specific details. Um, and Hamas also spent a great deal of time leading up to this, con- I mean years, convincing, um, the Israeli government through their words, through their actions or lack of actions, that it was a new day, and that what they're looking to do is create a different dynamic or relationship with the Israeli government. And so the Israeli government became complacent, and when they became complacent, to some degree, over Hamas and the fact that there hadn't been any strikes or hadn't been any terrorist actions for a period of time, then what you saw was then they kind of turned inward. And people talk about the political divisions within Israel, and the fact that the government was in a bit of disarray and there was, it was a little dysfunctional, a lot of arguments going on. That in part was because, uh, you know, they had the, not the luxury, but the ability to kind of turn in on themselves, 'cause they didn't feel necessarily that that ex- uh, that threat outside was as bad as it had been, right? And that they thought perhaps it's diminishing, perhaps, you know, Hamas is changing its tune. And that was a deliberate attempt by Hamas to lull them into that state, right? And so there were, there were a lot of things going on at the same time. But yeah, it, there's no way around it, it's a massive intelligence failure.
- JRJoe Rogan
The most cynical and conspiratorial take on it is that they let it happen because this is the best way to destroy Hamas, that they knew it was going to happen, so they allowed it to take place.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, that's, that's pretty cynical. Um, yeah, I mean, if, if you can get your head around that idea that they said, "Yeah, we're gonna let Hamas," or, you know, somehow encourage Hamas to come in and slaughter all these women, babies, children, men, um, I suppose that's, you know, if someone can get there, then God bless them, that's their right (laughs) . But, uh, I'm not buying it. Um, you know, I've seen, I've seen intelligence failures before. I know it can happen. No matter how many cameras you've got up, no matter how, how good your signals intelligence intercepts are, they dumb that down, right? I'm not calling anybody on the phone, 'cause I know you're gonna pick that up, right? I'm not gonna talk about this anywhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
I'm gonna hand a note to my cousin, you know, who runs a, you know, a part of a battalion in, in Hamas, you know, and they got, whatever, two dozen battalions. So, but I'm gonna keep that communication as stupid as I can. That's what Al-Qaeda did, right? And, and they dumbed it down, and it becomes much more difficult. They limit the number of sources who know about it. That limits your target pool of, of assets, who can tell you something, um, from a human perspective. And, you know, but again, people are gonna ... I've, I've seen some pretty wacky conspiracy theories come out of this since 7 October, right? And, you know, um, I, I'm not buying that one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The, the most conspiratorial was that, uh, Netanyahu was kind of on the way out with the people, and that this is, uh, the way for him to sort of galvanize everybody and get support and maintain power and-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And then do what he actually wanted to do. Go in there and attack Hamas.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's one theory.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Um, but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
When you have-
- MBMike Baker
... yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... ever you have something this chaotic, you're always going to have a bunch of wacky theories.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and, uh, you know, I get that, um, 'cause you have a lot of people who, you know, still refuse to believe that, you know, Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinians. And again, I keep going back to the same thing, which is, well, take a look at Gaza, you know, and, uh, uh, tell me what Hamas has done for the people of Gaza. Because again, Palestinian people aren't lined up 100% behind them. You know, in fact, there's, you know, there's been reports of looting of Hamas, uh, facilities since they've been losing their grip on, on power. Um, the Hamas leadership structure is enormously wealthy. Right? They've, they've stolen billions of dollars, um, that was theoretically intended for Palestinian improvements.
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you explain that?
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, how did they get a hold of the money and then how is the money allocated? Like say, where is the money coming from when they get money for the improvements-
- MBMike Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of sanitation and education and schools and all that? Wha-
- MBMike Baker
It comes from, it, it comes from a variety of sources. Look, I think the, the EU, the European Union, is, I think, the largest donor still to the Palestinian, uh, people. And it comes through various, um, uh, organizations. So, uh, uh, the United Nations, the refugee office, uh, UNRW, um, the US aid, USAID, um, and other, and some NGOs, and, uh, well, quite a few NGOs. So, money is donated or allocated by governments, and the US is, US is given billions of dollars, um, to, through these organizations for the, uh, improvement of, uh, Palestinian lives, right? For ... And, and part of that came out of the Oslo Accord, um, the idea being, you know, band together, um, improve the infrastructure for the Palestinians, create this, because that will march towards more stability and eventually maybe that allows for a solution, a final, you know, that, that will e- eventually come about in, whether it's a two-state solution or however it's worked out. So, that money flows in. But since 2007, Hamas (laughs) controls what goes. It's like, it's like when we give money to, uh, the Taliban now. Giving money to the Taliban in Afghanistan. And we like to pretend like they're going to use it for good causes. We like to pretend we know where it's going or how it's being handled. But this money flows into these various organizations and Hamas controls what happens, right? So, one way or another, they get their hands on that money and they decide what they want to do with it. And for the most part, it has been for the, uh, for the betterment of Hamas as an organization, in part because that's what Iran expects them to do. And Iran also provides them with funds. Um, not the Palestinian people. Iran directly funds Hamas. So, over the years, they have, the leadership, and particularly the p- the political leadership, who all basically live outside the, of Gaza, they li- in Doha, in, in, in Qatar, um ... You know, some reports, and c- they're confirmed by the US Treasury, it's not just the Israelis saying this, you know, they're billionaires at this stage of life. And you know, one of them's got a couple of kids who are on Instagram, right? And they're flying on private jets and they're, you know, they probably went to the World Cup when it was in Doha. And it's, (laughs) it's, it's ludicrous because billions of dollars that literally were meant to provide clean water or better schools or whatever, and people just, you know, continue to shake their fists and say, "It's all Israel's fault."
- JRJoe Rogan
How is the money allocated and where does it go and how does Hamas get their hands on the money? Like, what, what is, what's the expectations when they're giving this money? And how ... I mean, I don't understand.
- 30:00 – 45:00
So when the money…
- MBMike Baker
it because that, they're beholden to Iran. They spend it on what they're supposed to, which is, you know, more weapons, uh, more gear, uh, paying their, their fighters. Um, and so, yeah, I just, I keep coming back around to, to this notion that, you know, the Palestinian people have been getting screwed, you know, left and right. There's no doubt about it, right? And, um-... civilian casualties are, are, are tragic and sad, right? But we live in a very pragmatic world, you know, hopefully. We're not... I mean, you can't, you can't rule this thing by feelings and hope and, you know, positivity. It's not... It's... Hamas chose a certain path, and they have to be dealt with, right? Because, um, if you stop and allow them to say, "Okay. Well, Hamas is still there. They're still running things," nothing, nothing changes. Doesn't improve the lives of the Palestinians, right? Continues to fuel and fund terror. So okay, fine, if you feel better about a ceasefire and kicking the can down the road, but you're not... Don't, don't pretend like you're solving something, you know? So...
- JRJoe Rogan
So when the money gets allocated, so say if there's money that's being sent to Palestine for clean water and all, who's receiving that money?
- MBMike Baker
Well, it goes... It, it's funneled through the organization, so like that money is, is, is, think about it like a bank account, it's deposited with the UN Refugee Office.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- MBMike Baker
They decide. They allocate, um, because they have essentially vendors, right? Who are saying, "Okay, we're going to provide whatever, penicillin," or, "We're going to provide hospital beds or..." So they, they're, they're parsing this out to a variety of vendors, both in, in, uh... And, and you know, there's an, uh, an attempt to try to ensure that it's Palestinian businesses, and Hamas also runs enterprises overseas, right? So, uh, or sorry, outside of Gaza. So they run, you know, businesses, uh, in, uh, Turkey and a variety of other countries, right? Um, so sometimes that money is going to a Hamas-controlled business, right? To then purchase what, theoretically purchase whatever is necessary. Um, we shouldn't imagine that Hamas is... They're not like Al-Qaeda. They're not sitting in a cave somewhere, right? They've been doing this for a while and, um, you know, it's, it's a bit like, uh, it's a little bit like the IRA. The IRA started out with a very clear mandate, right? Eventually, an element of it was just about drugs and, and guns, and, you know, money. Um, so yeah, I keep coming back around to Hamas. (laughs) They, they realized they got a good thing going, right? Stability is not going to keep that gravy train running. So, you know, peace with Israel, that cuts off a, a revenue stream from Hamas, right? In a sense, even though they still... Theoretically, they could be smart and they could say, "Okay, if we have peace with Israel, then we establish a long-term governance thing here, then we can keep that gravy train going." But, um, you know, they would lose their funding from Iran because, you know, the last thing Iran wants is peaceful coexistence with Israel. And part of this was, they looked at the Saudis talking to Israel. They looked at the possibility of that, meaning that there would be normalized relations with Israel, and they're just not gonna allow that to happen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- MBMike Baker
And so... And for the time being, it worked, right? You got... I mean, look, you've got, uh... What are there? How many members of the Arab... I believe there's 22 member states in the Arab League, and there's maybe half a dozen that recognize Israel. Iran doesn't want any more. They certainly don't want the Saudis, right? Uh, because that could be a sea change in terms of other countries going, "Yeah, it does make sense. Maybe if we, maybe if we do that, maybe if we normalize relations, then maybe that means better prosperity, more stability, economic development. Maybe that's a good thing for our people." But again, that would imply that Israel has a right to exist, and the Israeli- Iranian regime draws a line at that.
- JRJoe Rogan
(Tim sighs)
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is the, the worst-case scenario here?
- MBMike Baker
Uh... (laughs) Well, the Biden administration would tell you the worst-case scenario is we get into a shooting match with the Iranian regime, right? Again, this is not the Iranian people. The Iranian people have an amazing, rich history and, and, um, you know, they've been under the thumb of the, of the ayatollahs for, you know, all these years. I suspect there's a number of them who would like to see a sea change in Iran, right? But I think the... You know, from the Biden administration's perspective, a regional conflict that expands, right? And not just the, not just Hezbollah up north, um, really getting into it, and things are heating up up there, right? So it's getting a little testier up there with, with, uh, with Hezbollah in, in Lebanon, but a, a wider conflict than that, right? And, you know, look, the, the Iranian proxies, uh, in Yemen have been, you know, firing their own missiles towards Israel, not with much success, but you're g- you know, you're getting these little, you know, probes there. Iran, uh, I think would stop short of being directly involved, you know? They've got enough in the way of proxy groups to probably keep this going for some time, but I think the, uh, the goal here should be, yes, not a wider regional conflict, but you have to be pragmatic and understand that this is all emanating from, originating from the Iranian regime, right? So if Hamas is sorted out and the conflict as it currently stands, uh, ends, and you don't get something bigger up north with Hezbollah, you still have the Iranian regime sitting here. They still have proxies. Even if Hamas is degraded, it's not like that's down to zero. Um, the problem continues to exist. So the best answer... I know you, I know you asked about the worst situation, but the best situation would be if the Saudis and other nations-... in that region would normalize relations with Israel. Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that possible now after all this?
- MBMike Baker
Um, yeah. I, I think it is. I think it is. I think the Saudis realized that they were gonna have to, you know, back off, um, for the time being. Uh, it's- it puts them in a- in an interesting situation. But I do think that they'll look at it in the long term and think, "Yeah, we have to- I think we have to- we have to move in that direction." Uh, who knows how long it could take. So, you can be hopeful, I think, about that. Um, but- You know, I mean, until- You know, as long as the- as long as the IRGC, the Iranian regime, runs Iran, we're still gonna be dealing with this problem. Right? It's not gonna go away. Now, interesting thing. (laughs) I'm- I forgot about this. Um, the Iranian proxies have launched, I don't know now, we're almost at 60. 60 different attacks, right? Drone attacks, missile attacks on a variety of, of US, uh, facilities and bases and personnel in Iraq and Syria. Uh, since 17 October. What is that? That's- so we're going on a month, right? A month and you've had about 60 attacks. You've had almost 60 US servicemen injured, some seriously. Um, and yet, uh, I think it was- I think they made the announcement yesterday afternoon during a, uh, a quiet time in the press room, but the Biden administration, uh, has agreed to extend a sanction waiver for Iran, and we're giving them $10 billion. $10 billion in what had been frozen assets owed by Iraq, right, to Iran for essentially- well, for the most part, for electricity, right? For purchasing. They, they get a significant amount of their, uh, energy supply from Iran. So Iraq, I think gets almost half or 40, 40%, 45% of their energy supply from Iran. So you had $10 billion sitting there, uh, frozen assets. And so in the past 24 hours, despite the Iranian proxies doing this for the past month and before. They were- To be fair, they were launching missiles at, at our- some of our facilities in the Middle East before the, uh, the conflict with Hamas. Um, they've decided that a good idea is to release the $10 billion and, uh, it's again for- gonna be- it's gonna be for humanitarian aid, they say. And, and they won't be able to use it for anything else. That's what they, they tell us. The State Department's very clear on that. They're saying, "No, it's just for humanitarian aid. There's no way they can use it for anything else," which is what they said about the six billion that they fro- or they, uh, uh, unfroze before this, this situation kicked off at the beginning of October. And, you know, to that the Iranian president said, "Hey, we'll use it for whatever we want to." Right? And money's fungible, so if you give me $10 billion and tell me I can only spend it on, on beer, um, okay. Well, I'll take $10 billion that I have over in this pot that I was gonna spend on beer and I'll spend it on, on ammunition, right? It's, it's all- it's fungible. So it's, it's re- it's a ridiculous argument. And then the State Department compounded the ridiculous discussion by saying, "Well..." Uh, I forget who it was. It was one of their spokesmen, Miller or somebody. He said, "Well, look. Eh, you know, they've been fomenting trouble and creating chaos and, and causing trouble..." I know I'm paraphrasing. Um, "before this 10 billion and they're gonna keep doing it regardless of whether they get the funds. So fine, let's just give them the money."
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, "They choose to fund destabilizing activities first," he added.
- MBMike Baker
Ah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"They always have as far as we can tell, they always will, so when it- looking at this money, we see the benefit to allowing these funds to move again to restricted accounts where they can only benefit the Iranian people." That doesn't make any sense.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, how are these people doing this?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, they've decided that-
- JRJoe Rogan
But why would they decide that?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what I don't understand. What- what's in it for them?
- MBMike Baker
I- You know, the optic is awful, right? That-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
It's, it's not as if, you know, the, the American public's gonna look at that and go, "Yeah, that makes sense. We've been reading headlines about these missile and drone strikes caused by Iranian proxies now for the past four weeks, so sure, it makes sense to us that President Biden's decided that this is okay." Uh, so I don't- I don't understand. I'm confused over what they think. And they- the idea that they somehow imagine that this money won't be used for, uh, you know, purposes other than what they're expecting is- I think is ludicrous. Um, but I- just- if you- if all, if all you said was just from the optic, even if they could- even if they could control how that money is spent, politically the optic is awful, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
And so it's a- it's a confusing thing from this, this administration. I don't- I don't understand it. And it's the wrong t- Anyway, I mean, aside from that it's the wrong direction. We should be going in the other direction. We should be- You know, Iran has, um, you know, they, they have, (sighs) you know, realized, uh, I don't wanna say a windfall, but, um, their, their oil, you know, revenues, um, have not been degraded. We have not really gone after their energy sector in terms of sanctions. Um, and so we should be going after that. We should be really stepping on the gas in terms of saying, "That's enough," right? I mean, because what have we done? We've had three responses to the missile and drone strikes that they've been responsible for over the past four weeks. Three responses. And after every response, we just get more missile and drone attacks. So it's not deterrence. We're not doing anything to deter the behavior.... right? We're just- we're- it's almost like a- a political decision saying, "Well, we gotta show the American public we're doing something and we take it seriously, so let's blow up a weapons depot in Eastern Syria." And it's- it's doing nothing to deter the attacks. So, I don't think giving them $10 billion, if maybe that's their calculation, if we give them something, they'll stop. I mean, that's awful (laughs) . I- I- I don't think they're that stupid, so that can't be the reason. Uh, so I don't understand. It's- it's a- it's a confusing decision on their part.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does anybody have any sort of rational argument for why they're doing it?
- MBMike Baker
Not that I've seen. But, I mean, I- I'm gonna keep looking. Maybe there- maybe there is one. It'd be nice to think, 'cause look, you know, you should- you should want the US government to do well (laughs) , you know, regardless. We gotta, you know, at some point you gotta say, "Okay, I don't care whether they're Democrats or Republicans, I just want them to do well, because that's good for us-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
It just doesn't seem…
- MBMike Baker
opposition to the Iranian regime, and they have, uh, encouraged and supported h- um, uh, the Iran Experts Initiative, I think it was called, IEI. And that was a bunch of academics and others who, you know, uh, all believed in the same soft approach to Iran and changing the narrative. And that's where you got, you know, the US special envoy to, uh, to Iran in the Biden administration, Robert, uh, Malley, who's now suspended, had his security clearances pulled. There's no real, uh, curious journalists asking where that stands, right? Uh, you've got, uh, an individual over at the Pentagon who, uh, still there, still in a job, and, um, has been promoting, again, this idea that, you know, we have to change direction with Iran. So, you know, there's- there's (sighs) - I- I know I'm kind of wandering down a- a weird path there, but I- I guess it's not a surprise. It's just an odd decision, right? From the Biden administration. And you would think at this stage of the game, if you're not convinced that you need to change course with the Iranian regime and treat them differently... Every time we try to shake their hand, they smack it away, right? They- I don't know how many times that has to happen before the Biden administration learns that's not the way to deal with them, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Just disappearing down a rabbit hole.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just doesn't seem like there's any... It doesn't seem like there's any rational solution to this. This is what seems so fucked, to someone that's watching. There's no like, "Oh, well, hopefully this'll happen and it'll all work out."
- MBMike Baker
Inhales ] Yeah. Um. This is gonna sound weird, but I think (laughs) long-term peace and stability in the Middle East, right? Any road you want to take of a serious means to get to long-term stability and peace and prosperity and- and a better life for- whether it's Palestinians or anyone else out there, uh, I think that road leads through the Iranian regime, and we have to deal with them. And I don't mean militarily, right? I mean, we have to... You know, although (laughs) , if they keep- if they keep this up, right? I mean, if- if- if one of these missiles hits one of these facilities and kills a, you know, God forbid, a, you know, a number of US servicemen, then what? What- what the hell are we gonna do? Are we gonna pretend like Iran still has nothing to do with it? We gotta, you know, unfreeze more assets? At some point, we've gotta have the stones to actually deal with them, because it's gonna be easier doing that now than when they have a nuke. Right? And I- I- I just- I- I'm curious as to what the current administration is thinking about in terms of their policy towards Iran. I- I- I don't- I don't, uh, I don't profess to understand it, but I do think that, um, you know, that- that you can't have stability. Every time you're gonna get your way towards peace and stability in the Middle East in some fashion, the Iranian regime's gonna screw it up. Because peace and stability means you're- we- we're talking about Israel. And peace and stability would, again, would imply that means they have a right to exist. A- and every time you get near that, then I think the Iranian regime will do whatever they can to stop that from happening. So, at some point, we gotta- we gotta deal with it. And, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's the difference between the way this administration handled it and the previous administration?
- MBMike Baker
Um, it- it- I think it was mostly the attention to the sanctions and, uh, the economic pressure, right, on them and trying to enforce those sanctions. Um, you know, there was- (sighs) again, not- not- not touting for- for the previous administration either, but just saying that their approach was tougher when it came to sanctions. Their approach was, "We have an adversary here. We're not trying to become friends with them right now," right? Because that's not their mindset, right? I mean, it's- it's like when you- you know, someone keeps, you know, telling their kid, "Well look, the bully, just keep putting your hand out and trying to shake his hand and, you know, trying to be his friend. Maybe he's just misunderstood or he's lacking confidence and- and he keeps punching you in the nose," right? At some point you gotta figure out, "Okay, the- I gotta do something different here." So, I think the previous administration, they were- they were much tougher on the sanctions, um, and they- they had a- an approach, much like with China, right? We- you know, they're- they're a- a- yes they're a competitor, but they're an adversary, and- and Xi's got a- a plan that gets him to the top of the food chain. The Iranian regime has a plan that destroys Israel, right? That's their goal. So, uh, I think that's what it was. I think the Biden administration is more inclined to think that we can all become a community of nations, right? Unicorns flying out our ass and everybody's singing Kumbaya, whatever the hell that song was. Um, so, uh ... I sound like a cynical asshole.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, you sound like someone who actually knows what the fuck is going on, which is scary.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
This administration's so goofy. They're so wei- it's so ... I just don't understand any of this.
- MBMike Baker
Well, you know what's happening right now while we're talking? Um, Biden is sitting down. He might even be- might even be right now sitting down with, uh, Xi Jinping in, uh, San Francisco.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you see how they cleaned up San Francisco?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Doesn't it look good? I wanna buy a condo there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't that amazing?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic. It's, uh- yeah, it's crazy because- because that city was a- a- a shithole. A beautiful, beautiful physical setting, right? Great place. But it was a shithole. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it still is.
- MBMike Baker
Still is, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you hear that, uh- what was it? Some news organization from another country got robbed at gunpoint?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah. Yeah, a camera crew-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
... got- got robbed, um, covering the convention. Look this- this- this APEC convention is there for the week. Uh, today is the big day when Xi and- and Biden sit down and talk, and, um, supposedly (laughs) leading up to this, Biden's main point during a press conference was, you know, the climate- climate crisis. Um, like Xi gives a fuck about the climate.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) It's just- so again, it kinda- it all kinda falls together in this like- this- this world that the- the current administration is living in. And I- you know, hey, it'd be lovely if that was the case and that was our biggest issue. But I'm hoping that part of this is not, um- that- that they don't spend a lot of time talking. And- and although having said that, John Kerry was- was there in San Francisco because he's our climate czar and he, uh, proudly announced whenever, yesterday or the day before, that part of this meeting will be to agree to a- uh, to- to resume the Climate- whatever it was called- Climate Working Group. So, the Chinese and Americans will- will get together now and will- will be reenergized to talk about, you know, uh, how we can both improve the climate. Meanwhile, a very- very, uh, reputable report came out and said that, um, uh, China- the Chinese regime is building six times more coal plants than the rest of the world combined currently. They're basically building two coal plants a week, uh, in terms of looking at- at their construction and the permitting process. Um, and, you know, people are saying, "Well-" you know, they're trying to find excuses. "Well, you know, it's because they want to back up-" you know, look, they're the biggest, you know, uh, purveyor of- of, uh, renewable s- energy so they just want the coal in case there's a- they need a backup and that's bullshit. You know? Xi looks at- at coal as- as a- as a real driver in terms of energy security. So anyway, they're- I- my point being is they're gonna sit down and John Kerry spews his crap about, you know, they're gonna- look at this, "We're working together to save the planet," and- and China is just digging coal as fast as they can. It's f- it's- I- I've- I find that part funny because it- it just shows that we- we're still misunderstanding, uh, you know, the CCP and how they operate. It's- it's fantastic. Um, but I hope- I hope they do come to some agreements, because again, you want them to. You want the dialogue. You want these two countries talking. We don't even have consistent communication right now between the militaries, right? I mean, if we get sideways with each other and you need to de-conflict, um, you know, that's- that's a good thing if you have regular consistent conversation between the military command structures, and we don't have that right now. You would think that the President of the United States and the president of- or the head of China, no matter who's in the White House, you would think that we would just be having regularly, uh, you know, conversations maybe once a quarter, right? Between ... That would make sense, but we don't do that. I mean, it's- it- it's kind of fucked up. So hopefully they come to terms on- on a couple of things. I'm sure one will be the Climate Working Group. Um, they are supposed to come up with an agreement on- uh, what was it? On the use of AI in, uh, unmanned weapon systems and in, uh, the, uh, command and control systems for nuke weapons. Um, I don't say nuclear because for some reason that's a tough word and I always get, you know, jammed up on nuclear and then people say, "You just said nuclear."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
And that's all I get. I get- I get 2,000, uh, you know, Twitter messages saying, "What the fuck's wrong with you? You can't say nuclear." And so I just say nuke now.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MBMike Baker
Fuck nuclear. Anyway, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think a better solution is stop reading Twitter.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah, although- although I- I, uh...... no, you're right. Actually, that is, that is probably the- you, and you've told me that before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MBMike Baker
Don't, just don't read what, what people write.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not good for you.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Mm-hmm. …
- MBMike Baker
right? And, and that's a, that's a, that's a hard cutoff for a lot of them, right? If they just get that impression that, "Uh, you know, this is not for me. I'm not gonna succeed. I'm not gonna do it. I don't, I don't see any reason for it. I don't bel- I don't understand why I'm supposed to go to high school." So, the idea was you work with those kids and you give them the opportunity. You, you show them what success looks like. You show them what opportunity, you know, can, can do for them. And you encourage them and that ... And, and, you know, they've gotta do the work again. They've gotta, they've gotta try. But, you know, a lot of those kids just don't ... They don't have that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MBMike Baker
They got a mom who's working, you know, four jobs, you know, to put food on the table, make ends meet, right? They, they don't have role models that they need. So, it was a, it was a real eye-opening experience, uh, and an- and a very good one. But, um, what was that ... It was called Citizen Schools. Um, and anyway, um ...So, yeah. So I- I- back to your original question, (laughs) yeah, I very much enjoy the president's daily brief. It's a- it's been a really good experience so far. Um, and, uh, I think I mentioned that we're number one in news on Spotify.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, you did mention that.
- MBMike Baker
I did mention that, okay. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is your take on, like, one of the wildest things that's happened, we kind of touched on it briefly, is how quickly everybody forgot about Ukraine. It just went out of the news.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like the moment Ukraine came along, that's when everybody stopped talking about COVID. COVID kind of just vanished because, like, okay, now we have a new thing to focus on and virtue signal over.
- MBMike Baker
That's a good point, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Instantly.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just stopped, the pandemic just ended.
- MBMike Baker
Went away.
- JRJoe Rogan
Went away.
- MBMike Baker
We're all good.
- JRJoe Rogan
Even with, like-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... crazy liberals that are still masking. They kind of eventually took their masks off-
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and said, "I think we need to just... Ukraine is the focus now." Masked.
- MBMike Baker
Have you been out playing slightly, where you've seen people with masks still?
- JRJoe Rogan
Tons. I see them walking-
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... down the street.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
In New York City, I saw quite a few people on the street with masks on still.
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Also in New York City, I was there while the Free Palestine protests were going on. Those were wild, and they attacked a UFC bus.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a bus filled with UFC fighters.
- 1:15:00 – 1:19:43
(laughs) Yeah. I mean,…
- JRJoe Rogan
- MBMike Baker
(laughs) Yeah. I mean, they've got-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a wild scam.
- MBMike Baker
... they've got a lock on processing. It is. It's a, it's... But it's... You have to admire the fact that, you know, they- they've thought this through.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MBMike Baker
Right? And they, they kind of went soup to nuts. They, you know, started the process to the finish. "All right. What do we do? How do we control it?"
- JRJoe Rogan
I never understood that.
- MBMike Baker
I mean it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Term soup to nuts.
- MBMike Baker
Soup to nuts. What is that term?
- JRJoe Rogan
You, do you get it, Jamie?
- MBMike Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you, have you ever understood it?
- MBMike Baker
Can we look up the, uh, the origin-
- JRJoe Rogan
I've heard it.
- MBMike Baker
... of soup to nuts?
- JRJoe Rogan
When you say it, I know what you're saying.
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But I, I'm like, "Where the fuck did that come from?"
- NANarrator
It's derived from the description of a full course dinner.
- MBMike Baker
Really?
- NANarrator
So you start with soup and you finish with nuts.
- MBMike Baker
Dude.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who the fuck-
- NANarrator
Who finishes with nuts?
- JRJoe Rogan
... finishes with nuts?
- MBMike Baker
(laughs)
- NANarrator
It may also refer to a-
- MBMike Baker
What?
- NANarrator
... 1930 feature film starring the Three Stooges called Soup To Nuts.
Episode duration: 2:23:30
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