EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,156 words- 0:00 – 6:20
Intro
- NANarrator
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)
- JRJohn Reeves
Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, I'll have a little taste.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just a little taste, Mr. Reeves. There you go.
- JRJohn Reeves
Thank you, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cheers, sir.
- JRJohn Reeves
Cheers to you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you again.
- JRJohn Reeves
Good to be seen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Aha. Mm. Woo! So tell me, what the fuck is going on? How is it? How's- how's things cracking? First of all, congratulations on being, uh, proved correct.
- JRJohn Reeves
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that there are literally mammoth bones, bison bones, all kinds of bones in the East River.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yes, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
You- you said it on this podcast. Dirty Water Dan went out and looked for them. They found bones. They found multiple bones. It's real.
- JRJohn Reeves
It's very real.
- JRJoe Rogan
So the museum dumped bones that belong to your property-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... out there in the East River, and they're still out there for people to find. How- how many pounds were dumped, roughly?
- JRJohn Reeves
50- 50 tons.
- JRJoe Rogan
50 tons?
- JRJohn Reeves
50.
- JRJoe Rogan
50 tons?
- JRJohn Reeves
And that was told to me by one of the guys that wrote that report that I read on your show.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good Lord, that's a lot. I didn't know it was that many.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. Boxcar.
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales loudly) And they found how many bones so far?
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't know?
- JRJohn Reeves
I- I think, uh, Dirty Water Don and those guys found three so far.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did I say Dan? Sorry, sorry.
- JRJohn Reeves
Uh, it is either Dan or Don.
- 6:20 – 13:14
Unearthed
- JRJohn Reeves
And they, they denied-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
... it at fir- you know, check this out.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, it says, "A uh, in the-"
- NANarrator
12 tons of ivory unearthed in a year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow!
- NANarrator
These are the fearsome reminders of a period when cavemen were not the only things girls had to look out for.
- JRJohn Reeves
Wow. That was-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
That was AM.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- NANarrator
But money isn't always so easy to find. Gold miners in Alaska, loosening up the frozen earth, found not gold, but the treasures of past ages. A mammoth tusk, nine feet long, was just a part of the 12 tons of ivory unearthed in a year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JRJohn Reeves
12 tons.
- NANarrator
These are the fearsome reminders of a period when cavemen were not the only things girls had to look out for.
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hilar- The way they talked back then was so strange.
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What a weird way to talk. Like, why-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... why'd they all choose to talk like that?
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Very weird. It's like when they first heard themselves recorded, they, "Well, I would like to sound a little more fancy."
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JRJohn Reeves
Anyways, that's, that's, uh, that's they're collecting techniques, and they sent everything. They weren't supposed to take all that stuff. They were only supposed to take bones of scientific value, and, and they were supposed to research every one they took, and they were supposed to, under the agreement I had with them, or my, my company, do a report annually on everything they took. And it was a tripartite agreement with the University of Alaska, AMNH, and my company, Fairbanks Exploration. And they didn't do any of it. And when I bought the company, I went to the mu- university museum, and the curator there, I said, "I bet you know why I'm here." He goes, "I think I do." I said, "I want the bones back." He goes, "Let's go to New York City. Let's go get 'em." So, we all went to New York City to get 'em, and they gave me a nice tour downstairs of the, of the basement, showed me the tons and tons they had down there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JRJohn Reeves
Hundreds and hundreds of mammoth tusks.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JRJohn Reeves
In those crate- the wooden crates and everything else.
- 13:14 – 13:39
Old Animals
- JRJohn Reeves
You're not gonna believe this 'cause we got all excited when we found them.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
Plus or minus 200 years. They're 190 years.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, what, what kind of animal are these from?
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
But they're 200 years old?
- JRJohn Reeves
190. Here, I brought one with me.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Oh, really?
- JRJohn Reeves
This is, uh, the story about how these were found
- 13:39 – 15:49
The Spitzer
- JRJohn Reeves
is, I got a call one day, I was out there at the boneyard. My daughters have a tourist business around the corner, a little bit, called Gold Daughters, and, uh, Laura called me up and goes, "Dad, there's a state trooper over here wanting to talk to you." And I look around my truck to see what I got in it.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
(coughs) I said, "Okay, I'll be right over." I go over and we had some stuff going on at the time, and I didn't think there was any reports filed any place, but I go over there and introduce myself to this guy and it's, his name's Eric Spitzer. He's the head state trooper in Fairbanks. He says, "I was just out in the neighborhood. I, I wanted to come by and introduce myself. I saw you on Joe Rogan's podcast. I love fossils. I love what this is all about. It's, my kids like to look for bones, and I take them out in the woods and we look for stuff, and I just wanted to come by and introduce myself." And he, the, the excitement in his, just him ta- talking to me, I said, uh, "Well, follow me over. We'll go, I'll go show it to you right now." So, we went over to the boneyard and he got out, and he looked around, and he just couldn't believe it. He picked up some bone parts. I said, "Well, now you're a boner."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
He just, he's just gotta find one. And, uh, we bullshit a little bit. He goes, "Do you mind if I bring my kids out sometime?" I said, "Bring them out this weekend. We'll fire the pumps up. I'll turn you guys loose, and then we'll come check on you once in a while." And they found a pallet or two full of bones, little fragments, leg bones, and then they came back the next weekend. They found a mammoth tusk and they found these sawed bones, a few of them. We got 15 of them now that they found. And so I told, uh, told everybody that those bones are now called the Spitzer, the Spitzer finds.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JRJohn Reeves
His two little young daughters found them. Sometimes it just takes a new set of eyes. I don't know how many of those we've picked up in the past, but we never looked at it that way. So, I brought one with me.
- JRJoe Rogan
All right.
- JRJohn Reeves
This, this is the one that I carbon dated.
- 15:49 – 19:14
The femur
- JRJohn Reeves
- JRJoe Rogan
And so this is the one that's 200 plus years old?
- JRJohn Reeves
Right. Now, that, see, you see that notch right there?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
That's what I cut out to send in to get carbon dated.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so this is, uh, boy. This is, uh, some sort of a joint. Is that a femur? Is that the top of a femur? Do we know?
- JRJohn Reeves
Uh, Lady Jeanette Rhimes, a Dakota huntress, she thinks it's a moose, moose leg bone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JRJohn Reeves
But set it on its end there, other s- other end.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JRJohn Reeves
Now, 200 years ago, what kind of utility would that have, to do that?
- JRJoe Rogan
What kind of utility to do that?
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What do you mean?
- JRJohn Reeves
Well, the people that did that, why would they have a, a bone like that?
- JRJoe Rogan
I would imagine to get to the marrow.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, but then what?
- JRJoe Rogan
You eat it.
- JRJohn Reeves
Maybe a candle? Maybe so- like, some marrow to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I wouldn't-
- JRJohn Reeves
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
... imagine they're eating the marrow 'cause people-
- JRJohn Reeves
They are eating the marrow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... people have always eaten the marrow, and that's how they do it. I mean, if you get marrow now, that's how you do it.
- JRJohn Reeves
But I think there's some utility to that bone, is what I'm saying.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- JRJohn Reeves
Just the way it sits. You could have put fire embers in it to keep, you know, overnight. 'Cause this was 200 years ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
This was 100 years before Fairbanks was discovered. This was, this is even more of a mystery to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, is this, uh, Russians?
- 19:14 – 24:40
Happy People
- JRJoe Rogan
was it mostly like... Have you ever seen that, uh, Werner Herzog documentary, uh, Happy People: Life in the Taiga?
- JRJohn Reeves
Uh-uh.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's about people who live in Siberia right now to this day, and they live this in- incredibly primitive life. The, the... Really all they have is snowmobiles and some hand tools and, um, you know, maybe some chainsaws. And most of what they do is just living off the land, trapping, fishing, hunting. That's it.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they, you know, there, the very low instances of mental illness, everybody's very happy. All these communities of these people living together just, you know, surviving, living off the land, subsist- subsistence lifestyle. But I don't think there's much historical record on those people. You know, the people that are alive there right now, if they were to die off 200 years from now, what evidence is there of them? Other than you might, you might find some stuff that they did, you might find some trees they cut down or some, some logs or what... Whatever's gonna be around still 200 years from now that'd be preserved.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yep. Well, we did find a skinning, uh, rock across the valley on top of a hill that still don't know where that's... how old that is or where that's from.
- JRJoe Rogan
Skinning rock?
- JRJohn Reeves
The skinning rock-
- JRJoe Rogan
So-
- JRJohn Reeves
... posted there.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's, uh, been worked, so it's been fluted?
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, there's even a little indent on the side for your finger-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JRJohn Reeves
... as you flesh something out.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what is it made out of?
- JRJohn Reeves
Stone from Eastern Europe. Remember we talked a little bit about that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's right. That's right.
- JRJohn Reeves
Uh, and it wasn't local.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
So, there was a lot of traveling, migrating going on across that Bering Land Bridge, 'cause it was ice-free corridor.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
And it went all the way into the lower 48.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
So, there's a lot of stuff that we find, as I said last time, that they say didn't live there, but it sure died there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, like let's talk about that. Like, what different animals did they say didn't live there that you personally and your company has found evidence of?
- JRJohn Reeves
Dire wolves being one of them. Uh, saber tooth being another one. My... I found one and my company found one before, before I was around. Sent them to New York City. I asked to see him, but they didn't have him available. And let's see what else we got. Badgers, elk.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they didn't think they were around back then?
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why did they not think that elk were in that area back then? 'Cause elk are in Alaska.
- JRJohn Reeves
Because they, they never found any elk bones.
- 24:40 – 27:33
No Research
- JRJohn Reeves
- JRJoe Rogan
And so, you've never been given any explanation as to why they haven't done this research?
- JRJohn Reeves
They didn't feel like it.
- JRJoe Rogan
They just didn't feel like it. Is it because they don't have the resources or it just wasn't a priority for them and this was all done from the 1940s and there's no reason for them to go back and take that stuff and reenact the research or begin the research?
- JRJohn Reeves
It's impossible for them to come up with any scientific research because they don't have the stratigraphic information.
- JRJoe Rogan
Th- th- it's just like the bones.
- JRJohn Reeves
They- they don't even know where it was found.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
But I do. Let's put it all together, boys, and then we'll study it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why- I just don't understand why they wouldn't want to do that. That seems, to me, an incredible opportunity to-
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... a- attain enlightenment on an area that's fascinating.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, the- the- have- have any academics reached out to you after the podcast?
- JRJohn Reeves
Not that I- not that I know of.
- JRJoe Rogan
How not? How not? I mean, uh, me just finding your Instagram page, I was like, Jesus Christ, like, how does this guy have all these bones? Like, this is crazy. What is this place? This place seems like... What an amazing, fortunate find that you guys have this one spot, 2.1 acres, and probably a whole lot more around that area-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yes, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that you ha- just haven't uncovered yet-
- JRJohn Reeves
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that has this incredible wealth of bones.
- JRJohn Reeves
It's amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fucking incredible.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yep. And that's why that cut bone... By the way, I noticed you don't have a- a spitzer bone out there in your lobby.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's a spitzer bone?
- JRJohn Reeves
That- that's what we call the spitzer bones.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
You ain't got one of those in your lobby?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I don't.
- JRJohn Reeves
I'm gonna fix that shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, thank you.
- 27:33 – 31:00
An Extraordinary Opportunity
- JRJohn Reeves
it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it just seems to me that this is an extraordinary opportunity to gain some understanding.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's why I don't understand why, uh, these universities or, uh, you know, someone hasn't reached out to you and said, "Hey, we need to really have a full-scale investigation, find out what happened here." This is an extraordinary place. And it may unlock a lot of pieces to this puzzle as to what happened to humanity. There's clearly some indication that we have, uh, a very limited understanding of the history of human beings in terms of what took place, where we're starting to uncover these immense structures that seem to indicate that people had very complex construction methods many thousands of years before we thought they were capable of doing that. Many thousands.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, Gobekli Tepe, which is, uh, buried 11,000-plus years ago back when they thought people were hunter-gatherers. And that's just what we found. We- we... And that now they've done, through LiDAR, that whole area around Gobekli Tepe. They've found tons of these things. They're all over the place out there.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's... How many more of these spots are there on Earth that we just haven't found yet?
- JRJohn Reeves
Who knows?
- JRJoe Rogan
Who knows? And your area where that- that... Have they done a core sample where they've gone through that carbon layer to find out, like, what- what year that all took place yet?
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. That's interesting.
- JRJohn Reeves
And- and- and it's partially my fault, because I- I tell everybody, "Look, until we get our bones back from the bowels of the AMNH, nothing's gonna get studied." If they wanna, if they wanna do this and continue doing this, they can deal with Drew out there, 'cause we're not gonna g- we're not gonna just say, "Okay. We'll study 20 pieces of this 1,000-piece s- puzzle." We're just two guys with one giant. My company had 200 giants running at the same time for over 40 years. Recovered tens of thousands and thousands of bones, all of which were taken to New York. 50 tons of which were dumped at least one time in the East River, maybe more than that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, why did they dump those in the East River? They just needed the storage?
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't know. I'm-
- JRJoe Rogan
They just had an abundance of them.
- JRJohn Reeves
They had so many of them, and they said, "Ah, nobody's gonna give us any money for this. I- I have an idea that's a good cover story for making sure your wealthy donors get a little something-something and getting them off the books."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. So, some of them, they dumped, and some of them, they gave away.
- JRJohn Reeves
I would think.
- JRJoe Rogan
I would imagine.
- JRJohn Reeves
M- museums aren't money-making institutions.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
And so, I- I think a lot of the times, they get something donated, especially when there- there's no control at all. There was no control on this, what was going on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Sort of like-
- JRJohn Reeves
Th-
- JRJoe Rogan
... when we send money to Ukraine.
- JRJohn Reeves
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's going all over the place.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, why aren't we sending money to Maui?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Yeah.
- 31:00 – 32:20
Lack of Action
- JRJoe Rogan
It is. It is. And that's, uh... It seems like what's happening with your bones, and your property, and the... the lack of, mmm... and I don't wanna say it's a lack of interest. I'm sure they're interested, but the lack of action. It's symbolic of a lot of the problems that we have in our society today.
- JRJohn Reeves
Mismanagement, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Massive. Massive mism- and, uh, a confederacy of dunces that are running the show.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, they are, and seemingly, they don't care what we think.
- JRJoe Rogan
No. Well-
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that's... You know, it's... They have too much on their plate. Why are they gonna talk about some fucking dude in Alaska who's out of his mind, blowing water into this (laughs) side of permafrost, pulling out-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... all kinds of crazy skulls.
- JRJohn Reeves
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
Well, I think... You know, I'm in business, you're in business, and we have a divided Congress. We got half the... And a little bit more than half think this president we got should be impeached, and we got the other lower... A little bit less than half, not one of them think he should be impeached. So, my belief as a business guy is as long as they're fucking with each other, they're not fucking with me. They're leaving us alone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
And that... That's kind of what's going on right now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Boy.
- 32:20 – 33:45
Best Case Scenario
- JRJoe Rogan
Imagine that being the best case scenario in 2023. With all the information that we have today, with AI, with ChatGPT 4.0, soon- soon to be 5, with all the technology we have available, all the understanding that we have available, and we're still just... I want everybody to just leave us alone. That's the best case scenario.
- JRJohn Reeves
They just...
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
They've... They stay busy with themselves and we want... do what we want.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's better than them helping us.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, we don't want it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
But if... if, uh... The other part is I... I don't wanna let my bones leave Alaska.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, of course.
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't... They'd never seem to come back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. I wouldn't trust 'em anymore.
- JRJohn Reeves
Nope.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the British Museum, like, what... Has... Have they given any sort of an explanation to what they did with that saber-toothed tiger skull?
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Somebody's probably got that in their living room.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah, they do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. "By George, look what I have here."
- JRJohn Reeves
Oh, my.
- JRJoe Rogan
"I made a sizable donation to the museum and they gifted me with this wonderful saber-toothed tiger skull."
- JRJohn Reeves
In that case, I think the guy never even got back to the museum. I think he just took it home.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
You know, he was working for 'em, but they're a bunch of, uh... It's like we don't sell bones from the boneyard. We don't sell bones. We've given some bones away. That's 'cause I own 'em, I can give 'em away. They didn't own 'em. You know,
- 33:45 – 35:16
Tiger Skull
- JRJohn Reeves
museums don't own 'em. They said-
- JRJoe Rogan
So, they were supposed to research them? What were they supposed to do? There it is, saber-toothed tiger skull. Wow! M- a million dollars at auction.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow! That's 2019. I... I know a guy who has one of those. He's a very wealthy guy and he... he actually has a real saber-toothed tiger skull on his desk in a plexiglass case.
- JRJohn Reeves
That's awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, just like that. And I think that's how he got it. I think he got it at an auction.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
And j-... How did he get it to the auction?
- JRJoe Rogan
Good question, right?
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's probably yours. He probably bought yours. (laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
Mine wasn't that good-looking. That was a good-looking skull.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a good-looking skull. Yeah, his is a good-looking skull as well. His is fully intact.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup. No, mine wasn't that good-looking.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many of 'em do they have that are fully intact out there in the... in the wild?
- JRJohn Reeves
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Floating around.
- JRJohn Reeves
... La Brea. There's a lot of 'em at La Brea Tar Pits, I believe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
Uh, Alaska's a... You know, you keep it in perspective. I'm down here, your neck of the woods. There's probably two or 300,000 more people living in this city of Austin than live in the entire state of Alaska.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
The whole state.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
I mean, yesterday, Drew and I were going, "Hey, let's... let's drive out and look at the farms and the countryside." We drove for two hours. We couldn't get out of town.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
We ended up at the airport every time. (laughs) But there's a lot of... Boy, there's a lot of building going on over last year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
It seems like things are slowing down.
- JRJoe Rogan
This place is booming.
- 35:16 – 37:03
Football
- JRJohn Reeves
is.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's now the 10th largest city in the country. It was a little tiny-ass city at one point in time.
- JRJohn Reeves
Not anymore.
- JRJoe Rogan
No. It's blowing up.
- JRJohn Reeves
When are you guys gonna get a football team?
- JRJoe Rogan
(clicks tongue) That's a good question. That's a good question. I don't know.
- JRJohn Reeves
I don't know. I don't know how that shit works, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know how that shit works either, but, boy, they love football out here. I went to the UT game.
- JRJohn Reeves
Houston's got one, Dallas got one.
- JRJoe Rogan
I went to the UT game. It's massive. Boy, the... just the... the college team out here-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Holy shit.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Crazy.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wild. The wi-... It's like a religion out here. Football's nuts out here.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup. It's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's a f- fucking cool place to live, too.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yes, it's awesome. So, we, uh... We looked around, looked around, and said, uh, "Well, let's just look around a little bit more," and saw parts of Austin that probably are not on the beaten trat-... beaten track.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
But, hey, I thought, "Well, let's drive down to the border and see if we get kicked out of Mexico." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
He goes, "It's 485 miles." I said, "We ain't going."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah, it's a haul. Uh, I've gone down to South Texas to do some hunting, and, uh, the place that I went to, they actually found a dead migrant on their property.
- JRJohn Reeves
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he said it's not uncommon, said it happens quite often. Poor guys get lost, and try to make their way across, and run out of water, and...... that do it in July and just die out there, unfortunately.
- JRJohn Reeves
Well, I don't, I don't blame the people for wanting to come here.
- JRJoe Rogan
At all. No.
- JRJohn Reeves
My, my family, we all came from Europe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mine did too.
- 37:03 – 37:45
Puppet Masters
- JRJoe Rogan
of management.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Seems like a concerted effort to flood the country.
- JRJohn Reeves
It sure does.
- JRJoe Rogan
And not just this country.
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Seems like it's happening all over Europe. It's, it's real weird.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a weird time. 'Cause like this is the only time in my life that I've ever wondered, like really, really wondered, and seriously considered the fact that there's some puppet masters that are slowly orchestrating the collapse of civilization.
- JRJohn Reeves
You know, you talked about AI. Well, someday, and probably not too far in the future, you'll be able to do your podcast without even being here. It'll, AI will have you sitting there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
Have me sitting here, and it will be guessing what we're going to talk about.
- 37:45 – 40:33
Artificial Intelligence
- JRJohn Reeves
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Good luck.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. No shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
AI is going to be able to do a really good job of recreating the kind of conversations that we've had, but they're not going to be able to really recreate human stupidity. (laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't understand, what, like what happens when people get drunk?
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, I don't think AI is gonna be able to recreate Protect Our Parks. I don't, I don't think they're gonna-
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
... they're not gonna (laughs) .
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's like, there's certain aspects of just genuine human chaos that AI, I don't think is ever gonna grasp, because it doesn't have a soul.
- JRJohn Reeves
And the other thing is, you don't know if you, what you just saw is real.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a real problem now.
- JRJohn Reeves
That is a real problem, because-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
... right now, the stuff you say, it can't be real.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
But it is real. Wait till they get AI going.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's already going. I mean, well, I think what we're seeing right now is just really the tip of the iceberg of their capabilities. And, uh, I, I wonder, you know, I had Sam Altman on, who is the, um, he was the head dog at OpenAI, and they kicked him out and they brought him back in. And there's some sort of weird explanation of why they kicked him out, and they were saying that he wasn't forthcoming about something. And the concern is that this artificial intelligence has reached sentience. Like, it can think for itself. It can, it could act on its own. It can create things. It can do, it literally is a life form now.
- JRJohn Reeves
Ugh.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's going to be.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's going to be at one point in time an artificial life form. Has it done it already? It's very possible.
- JRJohn Reeves
You know, I've, I've been thinking, you know, uh, the speed of light was always the standard growing up. Uh, nothing faster than the speed of light. Then I thought, there is something faster than that. It's the speed of thought.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JRJohn Reeves
We can think faster than that light can travel.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- 40:33 – 43:56
Black Holes
- JRJohn Reeves
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, then it goes deeper than that. Well, there's a, a couple ways it goes deeper than that. First of all, in the center of every galaxy is a super massive black hole that I think is, I think it's, what is it? 1/2 of 1% of the mass of the entire galaxy that's in the c- some- something along those lines. It's at every ... So the larger the galaxy, the larger the super massive black hole. And there's real speculation that if you went through that black hole, you, you reach another universe, with also hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars. Each one of those galaxies has a super massive black hole. You go through that, another universe. Hundreds of billions of galaxies, hundreds of billions of black holes. You go through them, hundreds of billions of galaxies, new universes everywhere. And then there's dimensions. This is the real speculation when, you know, when people start talking about UAPs and alien life, and there's two thoughts. One thought, well, there's more than two thoughts. One thought is that they are us from the future. Another thought is they are us from... They're people, they're things, they're intelligent life forms, maybe even artificial intelligence, something that has been created from other galaxies that is physically transported here. And then the other thought is there's inter- interdimensional travel, that there are beings from somewhere that are capable of visiting this dimension that we exist in, but they exist in something. So they are here all the time. They're just here in a way that we have no ability to access them, but they can access us.
- JRJohn Reeves
And time, and I've heard you say this, uh, uh, something we made up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
There's no such thing as time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. This is the only time, right now.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. It's gone already.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- JRJohn Reeves
It was here, it's gone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
Now, you s- talk about be-
- NANarrator
All right.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is this, Jamie?
- NANarrator
Quick animation NASA made to give you a, uh, a size, a ra- reference, if you will.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- NANarrator
That starts with... The middle thing is the sun.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- NANarrator
Our sun. And I think these are different...
- JRJohn Reeves
... um, super massive black holes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
They're small, obviously. I'm gonna try to speed it up so it doesn't take too long. Let me go two speed. Um, this is the orbit of Mercury. There's one there. It gets really big here really quick, though.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, these are other super massive black holes that are just in our galaxy?
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. There's the Milky Way. Asteroid belt just went away. Watch how it speeds up here. Here comes a big one outside of the solar system.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh. What the fuck? (laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
Hold on, bigger one. Yeah, wait for the big one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my God.
- JRJohn Reeves
So, that one's just sitting out there, TON 618.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JRJohn Reeves
And I guess in theory then, yeah, all of that times two, or I don't know how big, is un- inside that. Like, reverse? I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Go inside that and you find another universe.
- 43:56 – 48:26
Brain Cells
- JRJoe Rogan
The tip of the iceberg is not even a good way to describe it. It's a grain of sand.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe it's not even a grain of sand. Maybe it's an atom. Maybe it's not even an atom. Maybe it's a subatomic particle. And maybe, maybe the whole thing is fractal. So, maybe what we are and what this planet is... I mean, I'm sure you've seen when they look at... Have you ever seen the, um, a map of the known universe in comparison to, uh, a neuron in the human brain?
- JRJohn Reeves
Mm-mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
See if you can find that. It- it's entirely possible that it- it's just constantly... If you constantly expand further and further out, that this entire universe is an atom. It's a part of a much larger organism that exists-
- JRJohn Reeves
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in another universe that is infinitely large, that is impossible t- for us to grasp our head around.
- JRJohn Reeves
For real.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, that's a brain cell.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's galaxies. And, um, when you look at that, I mean, goddamn, those things look the same. (laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
They look the same. Neural network and the cosmic web, they look the same. And if- if they are the same, if that is what a brain cell is, and that the entire universe is a part of the brain of an infinitely large individual that's a part of a civilization that also exists in another universe that's a part of an infinitely large being, that's a brain cell of that. That universe is a brain cell of that thing. And then, it just keeps going and going and going and going. And even the idea of the Big Bang is just like, maybe not. Maybe it's always been here.
- JRJohn Reeves
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe- maybe it's just constant and maybe it's God. Maybe the whole thing.
- JRJohn Reeves
Maybe those, uh, people, aliens, whatever you wanna call it, visited Earth about 65, 75 million years ago and they said, "Hey, no life like us can live here with these dinosaurs running around."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
"Let's burn this sumbitch down."
- JRJoe Rogan
It could be.
- JRJohn Reeves
And poof.
- JRJoe Rogan
It could be that's just how it's sort of designed. That the- the thing is designed to, like... The only reason for us to advance and the- the only reason for us to create civilization is you can't live where you are without structure. You can't live whe- where you are without agriculture. You can't live where you are without controlling resources. And so, then, as they fight off the predators, they develop better weapons. As they fight off the Mongol hordes, they develop better me- methods of protecting civilization and societies. And it just keeps expanding further and further and further, all of it to encourage technological innovation. And that without that strife, without the problem, like with the problems that we have in the world today, what if they didn't exist? Everyone's like, "Oh, we'd have utopia." W- would- would we? Would we? I don't know. I mean, it seems like we're designed for chaos. We're designed for constant struggle. And maybe that's, like, a- an engine to further encourage innovation and to further encourage society to progress further and further. And that you have to battle against these e- evil forces. You have to battle against incompetent government. Otherwise, you have no motivation to do better.
- JRJohn Reeves
Well, I- I think the pandemic was, brought on a whole series of mental disorders in this country.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
In this world. Um, we're getting set up for it again, probably.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
And- and you- you- you were talking once about, uh, quiet desperation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
There's a lot of people that were worried. I was worried. You know, I have a family when all that started going on. Going, "Oh, no."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
"I wanna protect my family if I can." I can't. Nobody can. Not when- not when they're making viruses in labs. F- for what reason would you-
- 48:26 – 49:20
Viruses
- JRJohn Reeves
It's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Why- why are you making them more infectious, more dangerous, more deadly? Why are you taking viruses that were never designed to infect humans and didn't exist in the human population and you're engineering them? Why? So you can study them? So you can get research money? Like, what are you doing?
- JRJohn Reeves
Maybe that virus is designed to make people go crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure there are.
- JRJohn Reeves
You know, just make them go nuts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
Kind of like what's going on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
We got shit going on with, you know, talking about planet killers. We can, we can kill this planet right now if we want, if all those triggers get pulled and all that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
... many times over.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- JRJohn Reeves
That's where we're at. It's unfortunate that we have to live like that and think about that. We shouldn't be thinking about that.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- JRJohn Reeves
We shouldn't be.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, we shouldn't be, but-
- JRJohn Reeves
But we are.
- 49:20 – 54:07
War is a Racket
- JRJoe Rogan
But again, maybe that's part of the design of how the human race evolves, that it has to go through these things in order to f-... to have an incentive to, to restructure things and get better. I don't know. I don't know. The problem is also our, our personal timeline of being a human being is so limited and so short that by the time you realize how fucked everything is, it's sort of the end of your ride.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
By the time you real-... Have you ever read, um, uh, W- War Is A Racket by S- Smedley Butler?
- JRJohn Reeves
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, uh, a, a great piece that was written by a guy who was a general, who... It was in the 1930s. And at the end of his career, he wrote this piece called War Is A Racket, and what he thought he was doing versus what the motivation for these military actions actually were. See if you can find that, Jamie. And i- it's a very famous, uh, piece that was written by Smedley Butler.
- NANarrator
The book's not very long, but this is-
- JRJoe Rogan
War Is A Racket. Yeah, the book's not very long, but this is a great quote. "War is a racket. It's always been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope, the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and the loss is in lives." And he wrote this, uh, very long piece explaining all the military campaigns that he was involved in and what they were really about, was about making things, uh, b-... you know, protecting bankers, protecting investments of oil companies, and all, all the different things that... what he thought they were and what they really were. "I spent 33 years in active military service, and during that period, I spent most of my time as a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street, and for bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism." And he wrote that in 1935.
- JRJohn Reeves
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And he was... He had figured it out by the end of his tenure, you know, when, when he was looking back at his career. He's like, "Jesus Christ, I thought I was doing the right thing."
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"I thought I was protecting the world."
- JRJohn Reeves
You know, you get so many years, and, like, we've made it both around one more trip around the sun since I saw you last time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
And, um, woolly mammoths had a built-in escape. You get six sets of teeth. When the last set is gone, you starve to death.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- JRJohn Reeves
Real simple.
- JRJoe Rogan
Real simple. That's the wild.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The wild is a built-in system.
- JRJohn Reeves
And our ancestors, you know, th- that were living with us, and I'll say this 'cause I know, they were living with us back in the Ice Age. They weren't working against us, and we weren't working against them. All that we wanted to do was survive from one day to the next.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause it was so brutal.
- JRJohn Reeves
And that's all they wanted to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
You s-... And I, I went off on this a little bit recently about the way that we portray mammoths being the extinction caused by humans. I'm going, "No, you got it all wrong." We lived with them side by side for tens of thousands of years. What if we kinda lived together? What if, what if we went out and collected their wool and made clothing? What if, what if we didn't run them off cliffs? I've seen the spear tips. You're not gonna stick that through five inches of fur, three inches of s-... uh, you know, skin, leather to hit a vital organ in a woolly mammoth thrown by a guy from me to Jamie. First of all, you're not gonna get that close. It'll stomp the shit out of you. Woolly mammoths had 10, 12-foot tusks. They just don't stand there going, "Oh, stick a spear in me." They're swinging their head, and they're cleaning, they're cleaning stuff out. The short-faced bears knew better. Short-faced bear will go after a baby mammoth, but not a big woolly mammoth. I think they were kind of, like, domesticated to some degree. Uh, same thing with, uh, musk oxen. I talked to Matt Slingsby up there in, in Nome about this, and he, he spends a lot of time out there with the musk oxen. He sees how they protect their young.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
I can see kind of us living with those guys, domesticate them to some degree. "Hey, you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone, but let's work together." We didn't always stick spears in them. You know, all the, all the paintings you see now, even prints on- online shows this caveman sticking a spear in a mammoth. I call bullshit on that. And you know why I can do that? 'Cause nobody can say, "You're full of shit," 'cause they don't
- 54:07 – 1:24:41
Impact Theory
- JRJohn Reeves
know either.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's a lot of speculation. And until the Younger Dryas impact theory, the main theories to the extinction event was the berserker theory, that human beings had become such effective hunters. And by the way, this was... this preceded the invention of the bow and arrow. This is the atlatl.
- JRJohn Reeves
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So which is essentially, like, a better method of throwing a spear. Like, I have this thing that I throw a ball for with my dog.
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah. We got one of those.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what I mean? It's like-
- JRJohn Reeves
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like a cup at the end of it, a long stick-
- JRJohn Reeves
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and it allows you to whip that ball really far with leverage. And, um, they had something along those lines that they would throw a spear with. And, you know, you probably could kill some young mammoths with that. You definitely could kill some bison with that.
- JRJohn Reeves
And caribou.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, you could kill some stuff. But kill them all?
- JRJohn Reeves
... no.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think so either. I think it was a, I think it was a, an impact event.
- JRJohn Reeves
There were very few people in the Ice Age anyways. You know, very few.
- JRJoe Rogan
(coughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
They didn't travel in groups of 100 or 200, I don't think. We'd have found evidence of that. But if your choice is to go, "Let's go knock over that, that, uh, caribou over there, or let's go over there to that woolly mammoth and half of, half of us get killed."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
"What do you, what do you say, boys?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JRJohn Reeves
"Well, you... First of all, you can go kill that caribou. Skin it, gut it, and eat it for a few days. Meat won't go bad."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JRJohn Reeves
"You knock over a woolly mammoth with 2,500 pounds of meat, you ain't gonna eat very much before it all goes bad."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JRJohn Reeves
And, uh, you know, we have a woolly mammoth brain in our (laughs) one of our permafrost tunnels.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- JRJohn Reeves
(coughs) Yeah. We, uh... We're way ahead on this, uh, frozen DNA stuff. We, we formed a little... We have s- permafrost tunnels. They stay frozen year round. There's no electricity. There's no, no cost to it. Just stays frozen. And that's what you have to do with DNA material, keep it frozen. So you find something s- substantial, you put it in one of the tunnels. We'll come back to that later. You know, we'll, we'll get that later.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you have the brain that's inside of the skull?
- JRJohn Reeves
No, it's outside the skull.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
Episode duration: 2:45:38
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