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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2083 - Taylor Sheridan

Taylor Sheridan is an actor, screenwriter, director, and rancher. He's the creator of the television series "Yellowstone" and "Tulsa King," and wrote the screenplay for the Denis Villeneuve film "Sicario." In addition to his work in the entertainment industry, Sheridan is the owner of 6666 Ranch and Four Sixes Ranch Brand Beef.  He is an inductee of the 2021 Texas Cowboy Hall of Fame. www.6666steak.com

Taylor SheridanguestJoe Roganhost
Jun 27, 20243h 36mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:53

    Rogan praises Sheridan’s Westerns: Yellowstone vs 1883/1923 realism

    1. NA

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's happening, brother?

    2. TS

      How you doing, man?

    3. JR

      (laughs) Thanks for doing this, man.

    4. TS

      Man, thanks for having me.

    5. JR

      Um, dude, listen, man. I, I've been a fan of your work for a while. First thing I ever saw that you did was Hell or High Water, but going through the, uh... My friend, Andrew Schulz, turned me onto Yellowstone. I got a text message from him once, like, at 1:00 in the morning. He's like, "Dude, Yellowstone. Have you seen it?" Like, "No, everybody's watching it. Should I watch it?" He's like, "Dude, watch it." So I got into Yellowstone, and it goes like, Yellowstone is fucking great, but 1923 is better, but 1883, holy shit. And on your recommendation, I finished it last night. I was up till 1:30 in the morning. I didn't sleep. I went to, I went to bed at, like, 4:00 'cause I was just laying around my house just thinking about it, just going, "What the fuck, man?"

    6. TS

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      That... I don't think anybody has ever nailed that time period like you did. I... There's nothing close. There's nothing even in the fucking ballpark. Nothing.

    8. TS

      Well, thanks. I, I... You know, the reason I chose to do this for a living, um, I was off to my third college I was gonna go flunk out of.

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. TS

      And, uh, and, and right before I left, I had read Lonesome Dove, you know, M- Mercury's book, and then I saw the miniseries with Duvall and, and Tom Lee, and I said, "I w- I wanna do that. I don't know what that is, but that's what I wanna do."

    11. JR

      Wow.

    12. TS

      You know, so I started, I started as an actor first 'cause I thought that's what it was, and then I realized, I'm not doing that. I'm not creating a story. And then finally, you know, I got the conus to quit and, and, and write my own. But yeah, 1883 was me. Yellowstone's, uh, the, the punk rock me. There's a, there's a fair amount of, um... It's, it has no plot, really, you know, "Don't take my land. I want your land."

    13. JR

      Right. (laughs)

    14. TS

      Um, and in that, I have a lot of opportunities to, to poke fun but also kinda point out different points of views and kinda really study a way of life and a world. Um, but there's a lot of defiance in the way that I do it. It's, it's not surprising that critics hate it, because, uh, it's designed for them to hate.

    15. JR

      Critics hate? What? They hate Yellowstone?

    16. TS

      A- and confounded by its success.

    17. JR

      Oh, God.

    18. TS

      They can't get their heads around why it's so

    19. NA

      (laughs)

    20. TS

      ... there's been. New York Times has done multiple, multiple articles-

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. TS

      ... where they're doing, like, this essay on, "How is this shit so popular?" (laughs)

    23. JR

      Oh, God. That's so funny. That's so funny that they don't get it.

    24. TS

      Uh, but 1883 was me growing up, saying like, "Hey, let's take a look back at history."

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. TS

      "Let's look at us and who us is as far as-

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. TS

      ... the, you know, the Europeans who settled this place. And, and let's not argue about whether they should or shouldn't have. Let's just look at what the hell they went through to do it."

  2. 2:53 – 4:45

    Critics vs audiences, moralizing art, and Sheridan’s storytelling philosophy

    1. JR

      Critics are less relevant today than at any time in human history. They really are. They're, they're off so much more than they're on. I-

    2. TS

      Yeah, agreed.

    3. JR

      And most people don't buy into it at all. Like, if you look at the... Like, a p- perfect example is, uh, one of Dave Chappelle's specials, the critics' score was like 3% on Rotten Tomatoes, and then the public score was 97%.

    4. TS

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Like, that's all you need to know.

    6. TS

      That's why it's all my shows.

    7. JR

      Like, who, who the fuck are you? Like, who are these people? Who are these-

    8. TS

      I have a-

    9. JR

      ... people that are critics?

    10. TS

      ... I have a show called Mayor of Kingstown, which is all about, literally, the decay of an American city, and I think it was 21% on Rotten Tomatoes and 94% audience ratings, something like that.

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. TS

      Some- something bananas.

    13. JR

      Of course. And it... I just don't understand why they're still employed. I mean, what, what is the purpose that they serve other than speaking to other completely disconnected, supposedly highbrow people that live in congested urban areas?

    14. TS

      Yeah, and I think also that critics, uh, uh, and I don't know why, but they seem to feel a need to judge any project by what it... How is it looking at the lens through today's new questioned morality? How is... What should we be making movies about?

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. TS

      And you can make a shitty movie about something that they support, and they're gonna support that movie.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. TS

      But my... That's not my job. My job as a storyteller is to pick a world and look through the window, and not judge it, and go, "Hey, here's what it was."

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. TS

      And, and here's the decisions some people made. And, you know, for me, you know, the Holy Grail as a storyteller is entertain, educate, and enlighten. Don't give anybody answers, just lots of questions to think about. That's my job, 'cause I can't stand to pay money and have somebody preach to me-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. TS

      ... their ideas. That's the fastest-

    23. JR

      Well, that's what's-

  3. 4:45 – 13:26

    Comedy’s shrinking space: offense, ‘dangerous’ standup, and why movies changed

    1. TS

      ... way to get me out of... That's the reason I hated Forrest Gump, and I don't mean to say that.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. TS

      I'm gonna catch a lot of shit. But this doddering fucking idiot is the only guy that can figure out the world?

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. TS

      Everybody else around him, he's just gonna go on a fucking run across America and everyone's gonna follow him, and that's gonna heal the country? I just was like, "What is this shit?"

    6. JR

      Well, I think back then, it was just... it was novel 'cause it was... the idea was like, the, the wor- like, it could be so much simpler, that this simple guy could figure it out, and that we're all so disconnected from the solutions-

    7. TS

      The irony is you, you couldn't make that movie today.

    8. JR

      Oh, no way.

    9. TS

      Because someone would be too offended at-

    10. JR

      Sure.

    11. TS

      ... the portrayal of Forrest's character.

    12. JR

      Well, my favorite movie that you could never make today is Tropic Thunder.

    13. TS

      Oh. (laughs)

    14. JR

      (laughs) It's a fucking great movie! I'm so glad they haven't banned it, you know. Like, like, they've done so many books. Like, you know... And Tom Hanks, uh, you know, like, if you go and watch his portrayal of Forrest Gump, it's nothing compared to the way they do, like, that simple Jack character in-

    15. TS

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      ... Tropic Thunder. (laughs) And when he says you never go full retard, like, you can't even say that word anymore.

    17. TS

      No, but, but if you look at that movie, which was designed to offend but also...... ridicule us taking ourselves too seriously. That's-

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. TS

      ... that's one of our jobs.

    20. JR

      Yes.

    21. TS

      You know, it's hey let's-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. TS

      ... we're all taking ourselves way too seriously, and if we can make light of this and make jokes about this, then all of a sudden it won't feel so serious and we can be reflective.

    24. JR

      Well, what, what's happened in your business has happened in my business too, the business of comedy. Like, comedy movies are dead. They've b- they've c- essentially killed the genre. All the movies that we grew up loving, like, all the movies like Something About Mary, and you know, fucking, you can go down the line all the way down to Animal House. You can never make any of those movies anymore.

    25. TS

      No. And, and to go one step further, like comedians, since Lenny Bruce, these guys, men and women whose job it was to push the envelope as far as it can be pushed to help us look at ourselves. And you think of the greats, like the great comics, Bill Hicks, Eddie Murphy, Sam Kinison, I mean there's Robin Williams. And, uh, uh, and you look at their, at their acts, hell look at, look at, uh, what, what's her name before she did a talk show? Joan Rivers.

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. TS

      None of their acts would be socially acceptable today. And, and I don't know that they were socially acceptable then, but that was their job. Richard Pryor-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. TS

      ... he couldn't say 90% of what he said.

    30. JR

      Yeah.

  4. 13:26 – 16:23

    Rogan’s Austin comedy club: phone bans, ‘comedy Alamo,’ and a cult-owned building

    1. JR

      It's, it's fun. It's a f- it's a fun time for standup comedy, but it's, it's literally the only thing that you can do without a committee because if you're gonna do a movie, you're gonna have to have actors. You're gonna have to have writers. You're gonna have to have executives, studio heads, all this shit. There's a lot of people that have their say in what's happening or at least have a conversation about it. There's no conversation. With standup, it's literally just you. It's one person. How do I make fun of this? What is, what's my angle on this? And then you work it out. You put it together, and then you present it in front of people, and if they laugh, it's good. And if they don't laugh, it's not good, and you gotta figure out how to make it work. And-

    2. TS

      No, that's about the... That's about the ballsiest art form.

    3. JR

      It's so, just-

    4. TS

      It's-

    5. JR

      ... pure.

    6. TS

      You are all alone.

    7. JR

      Yeah, it's pure. I love it. And my club out here, what I also love is that we, we make everybody put their phones in a bag. So instead of fucking taking pictures of everything and filming everything-

    8. TS

      You got it.

    9. JR

      ... just fucking, uh, just be there. Just be there. Put that goddamn thing away. The phone's in a, locked up in a yonder bag, phone's off. Just e- experience a human moment. Have a good time.

    10. TS

      I know a couple guys that went to your club last night that called me when I'm driving up today, and they said, "Have you been to his club?" I said, "Not yet." And they said... And they were from LA, an agent from LA. He said, "They say things in there you can't say in LA."

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. TS

      "Kind of like comedy." I said, "Was it funny?" He goes, "It was hilarious, funniest thing I've ever seen, every one of them."

    13. JR

      Yeah, well, that's what it's supposed to be, you know? And Louis C.K. said, "We built an Alamo." That's what he said. He said, "Essentially (laughs) 'cause you've built the comedy Alamo."

    14. TS

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      He goes, this is, "We're in a war with the cyber world." And he goes, "And you built us an Alamo."

    16. TS

      Wow.

    17. JR

      Yeah, but that's... You know, when I came out here, you know, and there wasn't really a comedy club, and all these other comedians were moving out here because this is the only place we could do standup. It was during the pandemic.

    18. TS

      Right.

    19. JR

      It was like all the pieces fell together s- perfectly. It was like the universe opened up door after door at every step, and then all of a sudden, we're here. And there was like 15 of us, and we're working in these, like, little rock and roll clubs and EDM clubs, and we're doing stand- sold out shows, and the rest of the country's completely shut down. You can't even do standup indoors. And they all heard about Austin, that we were all out here, and then Ron White's like, "You gotta open up a club." And so I was like, "Okay, let's open up a fucking club." And then we bought this building and started b- we actually had a building that we bought before that was owned by a cult.

    20. TS

      Really?

    21. JR

      Yeah, there's a, there's a documentary on the cult called Holy Hell. You should watch it.

    22. TS

      Right. (laughs)

    23. JR

      It's pretty crazy. This guy came from West Hollywood, and, uh, right after Waco when the, uh, Cult Awareness Network started cracking down on all these cults after Waco burned down and the, you know, feds killed everybody, they, uh, moved out to Austin. And the cult member, the cult leader changed his name, got a new name, moved to Austin, and built a theater so he could dance in front of his followers, and I- (laughs)

    24. TS

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      ... and that was the theater I bought to start a club in.

    26. TS

      Wow. (laughs)

    27. JR

      Yeah.

  5. 16:23 – 20:25

    Waco, Ruby Ridge, government overreach, and how cults escalate

    1. TS

      You know, my cousins were the federal marshals in Waco, and they knew Koresh.

    2. JR

      Oh, wow.

    3. TS

      And, and they had told the ATF. They said, "We were just there three days ago." Like, they could be whatever they are, but they, they're permitted up. And they were driving down I-35, and he looked up and saw these three choppers, and he knew exactly what was going on. And by the time he got to the Koresh compound, those guys had already been killed. (exhales) But he knew David, and, and he went up to the... Oh, maybe it was a week or two later. I can't remember how long they held up in there, but he said, "Let me just go talk to Koresh, and, uh, and see if I can get any of these women and kids out." And he did, and he walked up and knocked on the front door and took like 30 of them out.

    4. JR

      Wow.

    5. TS

      Before they just torched that place.

    6. JR

      Yeah, they did torch that place. And they denied doing it too. There's video footage of the tanks-

    7. TS

      The tank, tank driving right... Oh, on us.

    8. JR

      Driving in and shooting flames in, into the buildings. They just fucking lit everybody on fire.

    9. TS

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Fuck you.

    11. TS

      Well...

    12. JR

      I don't even know what started it. It w- No, it was like one fed showed up, and then they got shot at or som- something happened.

    13. TS

      Well, I know four were killed in the first, when they went to hit that place. I think like nine got shot. I know we could pull it all up and look, but...

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. TS

      Um, you know, at that time, there, there was this big panic about militias.

    16. JR

      Mm.

    17. TS

      You know, 'cause at the same time you got Ruby Ridge happened right around the same time.

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. TS

      You had all these, and the FBI was just getting kind of... Not, or ATF was kind of getting spanked in spots, and, and they were trying to c- clean up their image or, or prevent whatever, and th- that was their mission du jour, was like get rid of all these militias.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. TS

      And, and, you know, surprising little overreach on the government's part.

    22. JR

      Little overreach, but also like every cult...... starts the same way. Seems like a good idea. We're gonna do things right. We're gonna ... What's wrong with society? Let's fix it. Let's all commune together.

    23. TS

      Well, they all start like this.

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. TS

      First, you ha- you nee- you need a, a, a, like a Jim Morrison-adjacent-looking-

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. TS

      ... wannabe rockstar actor.

    28. JR

      Yes. (laughs)

    29. TS

      Right? Who's so wildly narcissistic and yet charming that he can convince them shit like, "I need your wife."

    30. JR

      Yes.

  6. 20:25 – 24:37

    The real hardship behind 1883: immigrant recruitment and the shock of the frontier

    1. JR

      There's a lot of those. Well, that's the craziest thing about 1883 is that you don't have to do any dramatic embellishment. There's no- doesn't have to be any, any fucking with the truth. It's, that is literally what went down. Those people literally came here. They d- you were telling me on the phone that, what percentage of the people that, that made the trek across couldn't even speak English?

    2. TS

      You know, it, something like 40%.

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. TS

      You know, they used to come in from, they, they would come into ... And of course, what, what our government was doing was we needed people for a multitude of reasons, uh, after the Civil War. So many of the workforce had been killed, you know, one point something million soldiers died that, that we know of. We don't know how many other civilians. So we needed people. Um, we needed people to settle the West 'cause manifest destiny basically said, "Hey, we," you know, "there's all this land we bought from whoever we bought it from," France, I guess, the Louisiana Purchase, um, "and we can't settle it 'cause every time we, we try, the Lakota or the Comanche kick the shit out of us. So we should send a bunch of Central Europeans and Eastern Europeans over there and let them get in the middle of it." And so in all of these, uh ... And you can, you can look up, if you were to put it into the computer, you could pull up all of these pamphlets they would put out and ads they would put out in newspapers in Romania and Norway, obviously Ireland. They did it everywhere, Germany, and said, "Come, free land."

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. TS

      "Come get your free land." And when I started researching it, um, you know, there were people that would come from areas where it was against the law to swim. They were not allowed to swim.

    7. JR

      Wow.

    8. TS

      There weren't, no one knew how to swim. So-

    9. JR

      It was against the law to swim?

    10. TS

      It was against the law to swim.

    11. JR

      What the fu- (laughs) That seems so ins- what seems so insane, what, what really struck me, I mean, I, I did a lot of thinking about that show last night. Like, it, it ended, I did my binge, I ended the binge at, like, 2:00 in the morning. And, you know, at nighttime I do some of my most fucked-up thinking because everyone is asleep-

    12. TS

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... in my house. It's just me, and I, I, I generally do most of my writing when everyone's asleep. And I was just thinking, that's 140 years ago. That's nothing. I'm 56 years old. When I was in high school, it was in 1983, so that was 100 years ago. I was a sophomore in high school. So I was ... 100 years is nothing. 100 years before that, you make your way across the country on a fucking wagon, and you get free land.

    14. TS

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      100 years. That's so short a period of time. It's so hard for us to really appreciate how recent that is and how d- how, how fucking insane the change in this country over such a short period of time has been.

    16. TS

      Meteoric.

    17. JR

      Meteoric. Nothing like it.

    18. TS

      I just read something in the last day or two that, and I'm gonna get it wrong, but 1937 is closer to 1984 than 2023 is to '84 or something like that.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. TS

      And if you think about the-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. TS

      ... the gap between 1984 and 2023 and then what '84 was like, I was alive, you were alive, to now, it doesn't seem like that dramatic a, a change. Obviously there is internet, but you still had cars. You had phones. You couldn't take them with you, but you had them. But 1937? (laughs) We haven't even, we haven't even made penicillin yet.

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. TS

      ... that's just 40 years.

    25. JR

      Yeah, trench warfare.

    26. TS

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Yeah. World War I.

    28. TS

      Yeah. No, these, these... They came over here, they didn't speak the language. They knew nothing about the land, knew nothing about the water. Had no... It did... By the way, you can be rest assured it did not say in that advertisement in the Romanian Times, "There's other people who already live there (laughs) who will kill you when you show up."

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. TS

      It didn't mention any of that. Um, they didn't hear about the Indians till they got to Galveston and, you know, they're buying their supplies. "You need a gun? W- why would you need a gun?" "Well, the Indians." "The who?" (laughs)

  7. 24:37 – 27:25

    Comanche history, Oregon Trail mortality, and what Westerns left out

    1. JR

      Yeah, that was, uh, a part of, uh, Empire of the Summer Moon. You know, that these folks had just established these homesteads and had no idea. And then the Comanches would show up and just slaughter them. They had no idea. They had no idea-

    2. TS

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... that there was even a, a concern and they had to figure it out along the way.

    4. TS

      Yeah. And that, you know... And you read it in that book, and, and from a military standpoint, it's such a just an impressive achievement that Nacona decided he was gonna raid all the way to Galveston. And he marched through, burned Austin, went all the way to Galveston. Everybody got in their boats, went out on their boats and watched him burn Galveston. And so then they went in and looted all the stores and found these parasols. You know, you could sit there and block the sun. And the Comanche thought, "That's the fricking smartest thing. I wish we'd had fabric to do that with." So all the braves took these parachutes, and when they rode off, there's thousands of Comanche warriors with parasols of all these different colors-

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. TS

      ... blocks- getting the sun off their shoulders.

    7. JR

      Running away with umbrellas.

    8. TS

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      That's insane.

    10. TS

      But what a, what a terrifying visual that would be.

    11. JR

      Oh, yeah. Oh, I mean, I had no idea until I read Empire of the Summer Moon. And then, uh, the author come in. What is his name again? S.G. Gwen?

    12. TS

      Uh, S.-

    13. JR

      S.... Is that it? Great, great fucking guy, and he found out when he moved to Texas, like, he- he moved here and then was researching-

    14. NA

      S. Gw.

    15. JR

      ... Texas history.

    16. NA

      S. Seguin.

    17. JR

      S. Seguin. And, uh, when he moved here and he was researching Texas, then he was like, "Oh my God." Like, "How- how do I not know about all this? How do I not know what this happened? How do I not know, not know about the Texas Rangers and how they were established and why they, they needed them and what, what went down?"

    18. TS

      Yeah, it was the... It was the Wild West.

    19. JR

      Yeah. Well, it's one of the reasons why Texas is such a crazy place. It's like this was kind of the last stand.

    20. TS

      Yeah, and- and Texas was its own nation for, you know, 14 years-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. TS

      ... 13 years. And it, and it still, you know... That independence is still pretty embedded in it.

    23. JR

      Yeah, they wanna put it back on the ballot to see-

    24. TS

      Every year. (laughs) This experiment hasn't worked.

    25. JR

      (laughs) Yeah. Well, what's crazy is when you think about the United States only being established in 1776 and how recent that is in human history, but the idea of a new country being established today seems insane. Like there's no one, no way, impossible.

    26. TS

      No, it's not gonna... You know, they... There's... Part of Oregon wants to secede and-

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. TS

      ... and, and join Idaho. There's, there's, there's a section up there around Humboldt County and, and up in that area in California, they want the same thing. And, and it's understandable because you have people who, you know, you take the eastern half of Oregon, virtually all of them are in some form of agriculture.

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. TS

      Right? They're ranching or they're farming or they're doing something. Same with, with, with that part of northern California.

  8. 27:25 – 39:10

    Hunting, food responsibility, and the urban-rural disconnect

    1. TS

      You're growing timber or you're growing something, whether it's wheat or whether it's whatever, you're doing something agricultural. Um, and then you come to these big urban centers and... Where people do not understand where their food comes from.

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. TS

      I read an article... This is, uh, when I lived in LA as an actor. And there was some uproar? Some cheerleader had gone hunting, uh, and killed a deer or something, and, uh, the picture made it in the paper or somehow, made it somewhere, and there was this massive... People went nuts. And I'm flipping through the paper and, and I'm reading the letters to the editor. It's kind of there in the front and, uh, they were all about this girl. And there's a picture of her. And, uh, one of them said that all hunters should be killed. How dare they go out and kill that animal? Why can't they just go get their food at the grocery store where it's made?

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. TS

      No, someone got mad enough to write that letter and wrote it and reread it and sent it, and then it was printed, not from a sense of irony from that paper I doubt, uh, and, and I remember thinking, "God, people don't even know where it comes from. They have no idea what it takes to put food on a table, any kind of food."

    6. JR

      No.

    7. TS

      I don't care if you're vegan or not.

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. TS

      They have no idea.

    10. JR

      It's all been given to you and all you have to do is work and then spend your money.

    11. TS

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. TS

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Yeah, I've had conversations with people while they're eating meat saying, "I can never hunt." Like, "I don't know how you do it." Like, "What are you talking about? You're eating meat. You just hired a supermarket hitman."

    15. TS

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      Like-

    17. TS

      You just ex- You just exported the execution.

    18. JR

      Yeah, it's-

    19. TS

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      It's, it's... We're so detached. And, um, that was why it was fascinating to watch this massive uptick during the pandemic where, where the food supply got cut off for a while and, you know, it was-

    21. TS

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      ... it was very weird. And a lot of people got into hunting. A lot of people got interested in it, and there was a big uptick.

    23. TS

      Or started to, or started to want to take some responsibility-

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. TS

      ... some kind of control measure.

    26. JR

      Grow food.

    27. TS

      Whether they get chickens in their backyard-

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. TS

      ... whether they, they come to a ranch and there's plenty of places where you can buy it direct to consumer. You know, when that-

    30. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  9. 39:10 – 49:29

    Feral hogs, conservation, and ‘ethical veganism’ as a complicated claim

    1. TS

      Those things are a problem. I mean, they are-

    2. JR

      They're a real problem out here.

    3. TS

      Oh my gosh. And th- and the destruction that they, that they reap on the, on the ecosystem, I mean, that's the reason the bobwhite quail population has just plummeted.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. TS

      Rattlesnakes have stopped rattling.

    6. JR

      Because of the hogs?

    7. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      Wow.

    9. TS

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      Yeah, one of the first things that happened when I moved out here is Ted Nugent invited me to shoot hogs from a helicopter. (laughs)

    11. TS

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      I was like, "I guess I'm in Texas." (laughs)

    13. TS

      Yeah. (laughs) Welcome.

    14. JR

      Come shoot hogs out of a helicopter.

    15. TS

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      They're just gunning 'em down. Have you ever seen A Porklyypse Now?

    17. TS

      No, but is that, is that with the-

    18. JR

      A Porklypse Now?

    19. TS

      ... tannin, right?

    20. JR

      No, A Porklypse Now is Ted Nugent and this guy that calls himself Pig Man who has a show on, uh, the, one of the Sportsman Channel, the Outdoor Channel. They shot like 250 plus pigs in an afternoon and they all did it out of helicopters.

    21. TS

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      And it's like, "Da, da, da-da." (laughs)

    23. TS

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      Like flying, it's fucking, it's insane. And you watch, you're like, "How is this legal?" Like, uh, I guess it's legal 'cause you have to do it that way. They, they, they have so many pigs. Like here it is. This is-

    25. TS

      Oh, yeah.

    26. JR

      This is A Porklypse Now.

    27. TS

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      It's all slo-mos of head shots.

    29. NA

      That's pigs some where, I don't wanna put a number on it. I'm having a hell of a time. I've got guys scattered everywhere. All on dead pigs, gutting 'em, loading 'em in Rangers, taking 'em, feed a whole lotta people.

    30. JR

      That's the other thing, the Hunters for the Hungry, I mean there's-

  10. 49:29 – 53:38

    Energy hypocrisy and Sheridan’s ‘Landman’: oil, EV mandates, and cold fusion hopes

    1. JR

      Nothing makes me crack up more than the stop oil people when they're blocking the highway with clothes made with oil. Like ev- they have rubber-

    2. TS

      This is, this is, this is one of my like, drive me-

    3. JR

      It's, it's fucking insane. I mean, it's-

    4. TS

      I'm making a, I'm making a TV show about this.

    5. JR

      Are you?

    6. TS

      Right now. Yeah. Called Landman with Billy Bob Thornton.

    7. JR

      Oh, wow.

    8. TS

      About the oil industry and about energy.

    9. JR

      I love Billy Bob Thornton.

    10. TS

      That's a gangster.

    11. JR

      I love that dude.

    12. TS

      Gangster.

    13. JR

      He's great.

    14. TS

      Yeah. And doesn't give a fuck. Does not give a fuck.

    15. JR

      And he was great in 1883 too.

    16. TS

      Oh, yeah. (laughs)

    17. JR

      He's great. I love that dude.

    18. TS

      Showed up for one day, goes, "What am I doing? Doing this? Great." (laughs)

    19. JR

      Just perfect.

    20. TS

      Wicked.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. TS

      Wicked. That's, that's when I decided, I s- I'm, I got something for you.

    23. JR

      Nice.

    24. TS

      Like, there's something we can do. But people don't understand, you know, they're mandating all these electric vehicles in California.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. TS

      75% of California's, uh, electricity comes from fossil fuels. Um, about 15% comes from wind and alternative energy, and then they still get a little from nuclear. I don't know why everyone got off nuclear. That was like the-

    27. JR

      That's the, that's the best thing for the environment.

    28. TS

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Believe it or not.

    30. TS

      We, we are... I spoke, when I was researching Landman, I, I, I reached out to some guys on... MIT has a climate change board, they've got a bunch of scientists that are, you know... All they're doing is trying to figure out, what is our next energy source? Like, what is a reliable energy source that's clean? And cold fusion is pretty much the thing that they've all penned as this is gonna be the deal. Um, but they think we're 30 to 40 years from having it to where it can even generate enough power. The, right now, for the first time ever, uh, they were able to create electricity with a, uh, uh, through cold fusion that created more electricity than it took to create it.

  11. 53:38 – 1:03:30

    Nuclear testing, radiation fallout, and Cold War political theater

    1. TS

      Well, look at all the, look at all the... In the '50s when people used to go to Vegas and sit on the roof and watch nuclear testing.

    2. JR

      (laughs) Yeah.

    3. TS

      I had a professor in college that was one of those guys and got like umpteen kind of fucking different cancers and died from it.

    4. JR

      Wasn't that the story about John Wayne?

    5. TS

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      John Wayne was-

    7. TS

      Well, John Ford, all of them died of cancer 'cause they kept shooting in Monument Valley where they were fucking setting all these things off.

    8. JR

      Exactly. But did anybody like definitively connect John Wayne and his cancer to that? 'Cause w- I, I think I had read something about many people that worked on those films also, also got similar cancer.

    9. TS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    10. JR

      But I mean, John Wayne looked like he smoked cigarettes and drank a lot too, it's like...

    11. TS

      I heard the guy smoked five packs a day.

    12. JR

      Yeah, he looked like a guy who was partying a little bit.

    13. TS

      He was on like a second pig's heart, he'd had like eight different organ transplants-

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. TS

      ... in the late '60s. He was actually kind of a tank that he survived all this...

    16. JR

      Did he really have a pig heart?

    17. TS

      Yes.

    18. JR

      They really did that with him?

    19. TS

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      No.

    21. TS

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      I didn't even know he did it when he was human.

    23. TS

      I think he made a joke about it on the Oscars.

    24. JR

      Whoa. They've actually successfully transplanted pig hearts?

    25. TS

      Um, yeah. I mean, heaven-

    26. JR

      How did I not know this? I know they've done it with a friend of mine as a- a- a- a- a- another person's heart.

    27. TS

      Yeah, uh-

    28. JR

      He had a heart attack and (crosstalk) he had a heart transplant.

    29. NA

      A pig valve.

    30. TS

      Pig valves, yeah.

  12. 1:03:30 – 1:26:37

    Communism, control, and what politics stopped talking about (policy vs identity)

    1. JR

      Yeah. It's all, that's where communism goes, kids. It seems like a great idea. It seems like we should all share money. You know, we should, like... We shouldn't be so materialistic and if we just pooled all our money together, everybody would have enough and we wouldn't have to worry about anything. And then the government just tells you what your job is.

    2. TS

      I just want someone to show me an example of it working.

    3. JR

      It doesn't work.

    4. TS

      Just show me one.

    5. JR

      It, it works in small groups. That's where it work... If you can get a small group of bad motherfuckers-

    6. TS

      Well, here's where it works.

    7. JR

      ... you could be communists (laughs) .

    8. TS

      You could make the argument that the Plains Indian tribes were communist. You could make that argument.

    9. JR

      Right, right, right.

    10. TS

      Okay.

    11. JR

      'Cause they didn't understand possessions. They would just-

    12. TS

      Well, they, th- th- they... Everything is so... I'll take the Lakota, for example. Everything was predicated... Your wealth was basically how many horses you had, and, and those horses, you stole from another nation, another tribe. You know, the, the Lakota would steal from the Pawnee, they would steal from the Crow. Everybody stole from the Crow.

    13. JR

      They were all raiding each other-

    14. TS

      Um... Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... which is an important point that is kinda left out of the narrative.

    16. TS

      And it's also... And they would, then they would obviously kidnap, and one of the reasons that they did that was, you know, these were all familial tribes and it's survival, so we need a new bloodline to get in there.

    17. JR

      Isn't that wild?

    18. TS

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      They also had low birth rates because of the riding of the horses. So-

    20. TS

      And probably th- the low body fat, too, 'cause it's a-

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. TS

      ... purely, for the large... For the most part, it's a, it's a pure protein diet.

    23. JR

      And they're just eating m- meat.

    24. TS

      And-

    25. JR

      They, they were carnivorous, completely.

    26. TS

      Yeah. Um-

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. TS

      ... they would have... You know, there, there were certain things. Miners' lettuce and various, you know, annual, y- you know, seasonal fruits and-

    29. JR

      Stuff they could find.

    30. TS

      ... things that they could find, but, but come winter, man, that's six months. It's, it's... You're eating beef jerky-

Episode duration: 3:36:48

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