Joe Rogan Experience #2115 - Riley Gaines

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Hello.

Riley Gaines 0:13 Hello.

Joe Rogan 0:13 Very nice to meet you.

Riley Gaines 0:14 Yes, and you!

Joe Rogan 0:16 You've been on a wild little journey, huh?

Riley Gaines 0:18 A journey that I-

Joe Rogan 0:20 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 0:20 ... certainly never expected, never wanted.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Right.

Riley Gaines 0:23 Still don't want. Uh, so yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:25 Um, did you ever in your wildest dreams think that you would have to be a, an advocate for women's sports?

Riley Gaines 0:35 For sanity. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:35 For sanity, yeah. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 0:36 No. No. Uh, never did I imagine that anyone would have to be in the position that I'm in, nevertheless me. Uh, so like you said, it really has been a wild almost two years now. Um, I graduated college, uh, set to be a dentist in dental school, uh, wanting to specialize in endodontics, which weirdly enough is root canals. Uh, so to say that this is a totally different path than I could have ever anticipated, um, doesn't do it justice.

Joe Rogan 1:10 Yeah, it's a minor understatement. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:11 Yeah, right? Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13 So, eh, walk us through the beginnings of this for you. How... What, what was your first introduction to this insanity of biological men with gender dysphoria trying to compete with women?

Riley Gaines 1:30 So, I'll take you through my kind of timeline here.

Joe Rogan 1:34 Okay.

Riley Gaines 1:35 Started swimming when I was four years old, right? I come from a family of athletes. Uh, so, uh, my dad was an NFL player. My mom, she played D1 softball. My oldest sister, she played softball. Uh, went to Ole Miss. My brother, he's in college playing football now. All my uncles won Superbowls and all the stuff, so come from a family of athletes. Started swimming when I was four. Graduated when I was 22, so you know, 18 years of my life, I really dedicated to my sport. Uh, impossible to put into words, you know this, the time and the hours and the dedication and the sacrifices that it takes to compete and ultimately be successful at the highest level, but of course, I was willing to do this. I knew I had to. Uh, right, you don't get to go to prom. You don't get to have sleepovers with your friends on Friday night because guess what? Practice at 6:00 AM on Saturday. Um, all of that to really say it's a lifelong journey. College rolls around. Um, truth be told, I, I really could've gone anywhere that I wanted to swim. Um, I'm absolutely biased, and the SEC is the best conference, so I knew that was for me. Uh, but went to University of Kentucky. Could not have been a better place for me. Um, freshman year, right, there was a lot of adjusting. There was a lot of, uh, time and hours. I thought I worked hard before. I was wrong. Uh, we were in the water six hours every single day, with three of those hours being before 8:00 AM, right? So you practice from 5:00 AM to 8:00 AM, go to class, come back, practice again from 1:30 to 4:30. Um, ate your dinner, iced your shoulders, went to bed, did it all again the next day. Uh, we swam about 15,000 yards every single day, which is equivalent to like 10-ish miles, so lots of adjusting. Sophomore year, still improving though, still getting better. Sophomore year rolls around. Uh, we're, you know, I, I really started having this breakout season, started doing some, some pretty great things, uh, really had finally developed like a sense of consistency I think. Uh, and about three days before we were supposed to leave for our national championships, which of course, you know, the NCAA, think about basketball, the NCAA tournament, uh, equivalent in swimming. We're ready to go, the meet you work all year, really all your life for. Uh, about three days before we were supposed to leave in March of 2020, um, our coaches pull us out of the water, sit us down, say, "Look, you know, if you live in the dorm rooms, pack your stuff up. You have to leave campus tonight." Of course, COVID had hit. Um, I didn't really know what this meant at the time. There was still a lot of uncertainty around this, uh, so I thought this meant we got a weekend off, we got to go home, we'd quickly return. Uh, but of course that was not a correct assumption, uh, because upon going back home, home is Tennessee for me, right? There were no pools open. There were no gyms open, nothing like that, and so every day, I swam miles aimlessly in the lake. I'd put on a wetsuit, and I'd jump in the boat dock, and I'd swim down by Johnny Cash's house, and I came back, and I did the same route every single day. Um, because again I, I n- knew that I had to if I wanted to continue this breakout season I was having my junior year int- or my sophomore year into my junior year. Um, right? And the amount of snakes that I swam by-

Joe Rogan 4:57 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 4:58 ... and like dead catfish that are floating on top of the water that-

Joe Rogan 5:01 Ugh.

Riley Gaines 5:01 ... like hit you in your face while you're swimming is not pleasant.

Joe Rogan 5:04 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 5:05 Um, but eventually, we were able to come back junior year. Uh, we had to deal with all the COVID theatrics, uh, which I'll be the first person to say that being a college athlete, really being a college student, I would argue being a human during the time of COVID was miserable to say the least. Um, but especially being an athlete, right, in terms of the mask mandates and the social distancing and the contact tracing and, and the mandatory vaccines, uh, which have you ever seen a swimmer in the pool wearing a mask?

Joe Rogan 5:39 I have.

Riley Gaines 5:40 You have?

Joe Rogan 5:41 I have. I watch videos of it.

Riley Gaines 5:42 Well, we essentially waterboarded ourselves-

Joe Rogan 5:45 It's so fucking stupid. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 5:46 ... with these... Isn't it?

Joe Rogan 5:47 It's so stupid. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 5:48 Isn't it? So, but the s- dealing with all the theatrics-

Joe Rogan 5:52 Right.

Riley Gaines 5:52 ... outside of all that, really, um, this was the year that I, um, won my first individual SEC title. Uh, University of Kentucky won its first-ever program title in school history. Um-And ultimately, I concluded my junior year placing seventh in the country, which I was proud of, right? Your top eight, you're an All-American, it's a pretty high honor. But I knew right then and there that I placed seventh in the nation my junior year, that my senior year, I had a goal of winning a national title. So, so that's kind of the backstory to, to now kind of finding out about all this other stuff going on. Senior year rolls around. Um, about midway through my senior year, I'm right on pace to achieve my goal. Uh, I'm ranked third in the nation behind one amazing female swimmer who I knew very well, uh, because, you know, like in most sports, your top-tier athletes know of each other regardless of where you compete because you've grown up competing against each other. So, I knew this girl very well, trailing her by a few 100s, tenths of a second maybe. But the swimmer who was leading the nation, by body lengths might I add, which is a very large margin in swimming, right? A sport that's measured down to the hundredth of a second. Uh, this swimmer was leading the country by multiple seconds, was a swimmer that I had never heard of before. Uh, and this is the first time that me and my teammates became aware of a swimmer named Lia Thomas. For all we knew at the time, right? Keep in mind we hadn't seen a picture of this person or else things would have been a little more clear. For all we knew at the time, this was a senior, uh, from University of Pennsylvania, which is not a school that historically produces fast swimmers. Now, I would argue is not a school that historically produces really anything good. Uh, leading the nation by body lengths, ranging in events from the 100 Freestyle, which is, of course, a sprint, and all the freestyle events in between through the mile, which, if you don't know swimming, right? Think about this in terms of your Olympic runners, because that's like saying your best 200-meter runner is your best marathon runner. You and I both know that that doesn't happen. They're two totally different systems, but that's what we were saying in this person. So, I'm scratching my head, right? I'm talking to my coaches, my, my teammates. "Who is this person?"

Riley Gaines 8:23 We had no idea, uh, and we continued to stay in the dark until an article came out. And in this article, uh, very briefly disclosed in a blip of a sentence, um, as if we were really supposed to just read right over it, it says, "Lia Thomas is formerly Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at University of Pennsylvania before deciding to switch to the women's team." And so when I read this, uh, of course, I was shocked naturally, but really it was kind of like the sense of relief that I felt, um, because at this point I went to look up who Will Thomas was because admittedly I was curious. You know, was, was this a lateral movement? Uh, someone who went from ranking amongst the best of the men to now continuing to rank amongst the best of the women? (laughs) Which is, of course, not what we saw, right? We saw that this was a mediocre man, and that's generous, at best, ranking 462nd in the nation the year prior when competing against the men. But, o- that's why I say I felt relieved, uh, because I thought that the NCAA would see this how I saw it and how, again, my teammates saw it, how my coaches saw it, how my family saw it, how anyone with any amount of brain activity would probably comprehend this. Look, nothing hateful about it, nothing even opinionated about it. The sheer facts on the paper in front of us that this was not a lateral movement by any means. Uh, but lo and behold, the NCAA did not see it that way. They saw absolutely nothing wrong with this. And so about three weeks before our national championships in March of 2022, uh, they released a statement saying that Thomas's participation in the women's category was a non-negotiable. Basically saying that, look, there was nothing that we could do, a- as female athletes, there was no questions that we could ask or concerns that we could raise. Uh, we were told that we had to accept this with a smile on our face. Uh, so that's kind of the lead-up to that national championships and, and really how myself and my teammates and really the nation, uh, the world actually found out about Lia Thomas. And I will say I'd, I'd heard of this happening in sports before, um, but I'd really only heard of it going the other way, right? So women, um, females who, uh, wanted to self-identify as men then going to pe- compete in the men's category which, look, I don't, I didn't ever agree with. I never necessarily supported it, but maybe at the time, I didn't see a problem with it, right? Because no one's, uh, I guess, competition, the men's competition isn't being threatened. So, you know, I thought it was dumb on the- the women's behalf, but whatever.

Joe Rogan 11:13 When, when did you see this from biological women competing as men?

Riley Gaines 11:16 Uh, actually in the sport of swimming, again. Uh, there was a swimmer from Harvard by the name of Schuyler Bailar, um, competed on the women's team and then decided to switch to the men's team at Harvard.

Joe Rogan 11:29 But isn't there an issue though with steroids? Because if you're gonna compete as a man, that means you're biologically transitioning, that means you're adding exogenous hormones, which would mean that you're taking steroids.

Riley Gaines 11:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:43 Are you allowed to do that if you're a woman transitioning to a male?

Riley Gaines 11:46 There was no, there was no... The NCAA's policy at the time was 12 months of HRT, hormone replacement therapy, and you compete, you can compete in the category that best suits you.

Joe Rogan 11:58 Right. So with Lia Thomas, I'm sure you got into this. What were the requirements that the, this 12 months? Is there an analysis of testosterone levels? Is-

Riley Gaines 12:08 It was just 12 months. That's it. That's it, so- That's the only standard. No threshold. So, no one is actually checking to see if this person is actually taking estrogen or taking testosterone blockers, or doing anything? (laughs) You just have to say you're on this program for 12 months? I believe so. Yeah, I'm not sure what the process looked like if, if they talked to Thomas's doctors. I don't know. But yeah, the, the policy that was, had been in place since 2010, so obviously this is a pretty old policy, 12 years at the time, um, that's what it stated. So, that policy's been intact for 12 years? Correct. Really? And now, uh, NCAA, in true cowardly fashion, is changing course, right? They don't want to be responsible. They don't wanna be accountable for this, so what they're doing now is a phase-out approach of this policy, uh, and leaving it up to each specific sport governing body to make their own rules. Right? So, now for swimming, they would resort to looking at world aquatics, or FINA, which is the international governing body. For soccer, they'd look at FIFA. For rowing, they'd look at US Rowing. Uh, they don't want a blanket policy anymore, and again, they don't wanna be responsible or accountable. So, they're leaving it up to the governing bodies and what decision have the governing bod- the governing bodies made? Some have taken appropriate steps. Um, I don't know of many sports that have been perfect, but swimming, for example, uh, their policy now is if you've gone through male puberty, you can't compete with women, which they were really the first ones to take that bold first step in prioritizing fairness over inclusion. But the policy insinuates if you have transitioned by the age of 12, then you can compete with the women, which is not satisfactory. Um, even taking puberty blockers before the age of 12, there are still advantages that males possess over females, and even if they didn't, it's the women's category. Yeah. It's not for men. Yeah. So ... Um- And then you have other sports, uh, that have gone the total opposite way, like soccer, for example. Um, that leave it up to, you know, self-identification. Basically, you just compete where you feel best. Oh. How convenient. Isn't it? Um, which at this national championships, right? This, this national championships where we had Lia Thomas, who is a male, a man, identifying, self-identifying as a woman, we were told we fully had to treat this person as a woman, right? This same national championships, we had another athlete who was transitioning, uh, but this athlete is a female, who was then self-identifying as a man. From Yale, uh, Izzy, now goes by the name of Isaac, um, and we were told we fully had to treat this person as a man. Optics purposes here, to give you perspective of what this looked like from our eyes. Okay, finals of the 100 freestyle. Top eight women in the entire nation- "Women". "Women". Yeah, for those that don't have video- (laughs) "Women". Top eight "women" in the entire country and you've got a six foot four man in a women's swimsuit with a bulge next to a "woman" wearing only a Speedo with nothing covering her top. Your reaction was my

Riley Gaines 15:41 reaction, because I'm sitting there watching this. I'm thinking to myself, "It's me. I'm the crazy one. It must be." (laughs) "This is the freaking Twilight Zone." Um- How does the audience react to this? Like when Lia Thomas gets on the block, when they're about to start a race, how does the audience react to this? Uh, as you can imagine, right, like there was a lot of silence. Uh, a lot of people didn't really know what to do, uh, what to say. There wasn't a lot of clapping. There was a lot of like protesters and like trans rights activists who were there, who were being loud- Yeah. ... and the posters and blah, blah, blah. Uh, lots of booing. Uh, Kellie-Jay Keen was there, who is a phenomenal women's rights activist out of England, and she was there, and, and she ... I'll never forget, I'm standing on the pool deck, and at this point in time, like, of course, me and all my teammates and my coaches, we all knew this was wrong. But it still ... I didn't know how to talk about it or what to say or what outlet to go to, and I remember hearing her from the stands, um, and she just said something that we were all thinking, and she yelled so loud, "He's a cheater." And I was like, "Oh, my gosh." I needed to hear that. Yeah. Um, so there was a lot of booing, uh, as you can imagine. Lots of silence. (exhales) And through this, so you have the loud, uh, trans rights protesters, and is there anyone countering that? Are there loud pro-women sports protesters? There were. Um, not as loud. If I'm gonna be honest, not as ugly, (laughs) which I think that gets a lot of media time, uh, when you have these men with beards and these big signs, uh, that certainly catches a lot of cameras. Um, so they were definitely there, uh, and looking back, like I said, like being able to see them, uh, it inspired me. It gave me courage, um, to be willing to kind of put my name and face to it. 'Cause I was scared at first, um, based on just kind of the silencing tactics that were used to keep us quiet, right? Like we were told, you know, "You'll never get a job if you speak out about this. You're, your employer is gonna look you up and see that you're a transphobe." And you don't want that, do you? You don't want everyone to think that you're transphobic or- Was this a conversation that someone actually had with you? Yeah. We, I mean, we had to go to training, Joe, to learn how...... again-

Joe Rogan 18:17 How to accept that you're being cheated.

Riley Gaines 18:20 A senior in college.

Joe Rogan 18:21 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 18:21 21 years old.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 18:23 Um, they brought in an outside professional, again, air quotes, because what in the world? How can you be an outside professional, um, who sat us down and taught us how to use she/her pronouns?

Joe Rogan 18:36 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 18:36 Again, a senior in college. I'm like, "Am I really-"

Joe Rogan 18:38 Taught you how, you, an actual she/her-

Riley Gaines 18:42 An actual she/her.

Joe Rogan 18:43 ... how do you use she/her pronouns (laughs) .

Riley Gaines 18:45 We had to go through these interview questions. Uh, they'd throw a question at us. If we didn't answer their fake interview question to their standard, we had to go through it again.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Oh, my God.

Riley Gaines 18:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:54 Indoctrination.

Riley Gaines 18:55 Thomas's teammates, right, 16 of these girls plus their parents at the beginning of the season signed onto a letter expressing their discomfort in the locker room. Um, I kid you not, the university responded back with, and I have a screenshot of their response, "If you, as women, feel uncomfortable seeing male genitalia, here are some counseling resources that you should seek in an attempt to reeducate yourselves."

Joe Rogan 19:22 Reeducate yourself that that's a, a sheenis.

Riley Gaines 19:25 A sh- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:25 It's not a penis.

Riley Gaines 19:26 It's a sheenis.

Joe Rogan 19:28 Oh.

Riley Gaines 19:28 Queen is penis. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:30 So, does Lia Thompson have sex with girls?

Riley Gaines 19:35 What-

Joe Rogan 19:35 Lia Thomas, rather.

Riley Gaines 19:36 Yeah. At the time, again, this is what I know based off of what his teammates have told me a- and what really has been public knowledge based off what they post and different things, uh, at the time of that national championships, he was still dating women, and active with women.

Joe Rogan 19:55 Sexually, so obviously has testosterone.

Riley Gaines 19:58 Yes. But now, um, again, based off of social media, um, he is engaged to another man who claims to be a woman. So two men, but they call themselves lesbians, um, so who knows. But yes.

Joe Rogan 20:16 But at, but at the time.

Riley Gaines 20:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:18 So y- your a w- if you're on that team, you're a woman, and you have a biological male who's intact who's having sex with women, walking around naked in the locker room with women, and if you're uncomfortable with that, you should educate yourself-

Riley Gaines 20:35 You said it.

Joe Rogan 20:35 ... and learn how to use she/her pronouns and accept defeat-

Riley Gaines 20:38 You said it.

Joe Rogan 20:39 ... to this person that's not a woman.

Riley Gaines 20:41 You said it.

Joe Rogan 20:42 And the whole idea behind Title IX was supposed to be to protect women's sports. It was supposed to be to have a place where women can compete fairly against women.

Riley Gaines 20:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:52 And because of this insane cult that 45% of the country is in, or whatever it is, you have to deal with this literal mental patient in a women's sport dominating, and everyone's cheering.

Riley Gaines 21:09 Yes. And-

Joe Rogan 21:11 And e- and everyone around it that's watching it is upset, all the parents, probably on both teams.

Riley Gaines 21:16 Of course.

Joe Rogan 21:17 All the women that are competing with this man, and the whole world is like, "Yay, diversity." And you-

Riley Gaines 21:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:25 ... must feel like you're in a fucking movie or something.

Riley Gaines 21:28 Well, I'll tell you, um, really what had thrusted me over the edge into no longer being willing to lie ultimately is he and I raced in the 200 freestyle. This is the day after he swam the 500 freestyle and won a national title, uh, beat out Olympians, beat out American record holders, right? Keep in mind, these aren't scrubs. They're the most impressive and accomplished female swimmers this world has ever seen. And again, he beat them all by body lengths. Um, one second might not sound like a lot of time, but in the sport of swimming, again, measured down to the hundredth of a second, one second is significant. Uh, he beat the entire nation by almost, the entire nation of women by almost two full seconds. Even the time he went last year would have beat every girl in the country this past season by nearly two full seconds, um, making him the first man to win a Division I NCAA Women's title, trailblazer. Um, but the second day of competition, the day after this, he and I race in the 200 freestyle. Uh, so, look, we get on the blocks, dive off, swim eight laps of freestyle-

Joe Rogan 22:39 Crazy.

Riley Gaines 22:39 ... touch the wall at the end. I look up at the scoreboard, and almost impossibly enough, Joe, we had gone the exact same time, meaning, of course, we had tied, uh, which is incredibly, one, it's incredibly embarrassing for a six-foot-four man to not even be able to beat, like, a 5'5", uh, (laughs) female. Um, but again, going a, a minute and 40-ish seconds, and not even 1/100 separated us. You can't tell me that's not divine intervention. Um, but tied, we get out of the water. Uh, we go, yeah, you can see here, we both went 1:43.40. Not one of us going 1:43.39 or 1:43.41-

Joe Rogan 23:29 Crazy.

Riley Gaines 23:29 ... tying. Uh, get out of the water, go behind the awards podium. The NCAA official looks at both Thomas and myself, Thomas who is towering over me, right, six-foot-four, and this official looks at both of us and says, "Great job, you two. Uh, but you tied, and we only have one trophy, so we're gonna give the trophy to Lia. Sorry, Riley, you don't get one." My-

Joe Rogan 23:55 Jesus Christ.

Riley Gaines 23:56 ... heart rate was still high, having just competed. My adrenaline was still pumping. Um, and so the first thing that I thought ended up being the first thing that I said, and the first thought that I had was just what you had just said, right? Like, "Isn't this everything that Title IX was passed to prevent from happening? What do you mean you're gonna give the trophy to the man in the women's 200 freestyle?" Um...... I asked the question that no one dared ask all season, and I said, "Why?" Which, of course, uh, he didn't have an answer as to why. They didn't give him a script of what to say when someone asks you the dreaded question of why. And so, his first, (laughs) his first excuse he came up with, uh, he's, he's stumbling on his words and he's, "Uh, uh, well, uh, we're actually just doing this in chronological order," he said. And so I said, "Okay. Do you mean alphabetical? Because G comes before T. Otherwise, I literally have no idea what you're being chronological about. Right? We tied. So again, what's your rationale here?" Uh, and finally, he realized that he didn't have a justification, he didn't have an answer for this. And so ... And I actually appreciate his honesty. Uh, this is when his face changed. He looked sad. His voice changed. I could tell he didn't even believe what he was about to say. Um, but this official looked at me and said, "Riley, I am so sorry, uh, but we have been advised as an organization that when photos are being taken, it's crucial that the trophy's in Leah's hands. Again, you can pose with this one, uh, but you have to give yours back."

Joe Rogan 25:41 (sighs)

Riley Gaines 25:41 "Leah takes the trophy home. You go home empty-handed, end of story. We can eventually mail you one-"

Joe Rogan 25:47 Oh my God.

Riley Gaines 25:47 ... is what they said. So it was kind of- it was like that moment when I, I could- like, I felt guilty at that point. I felt guilty for participating in the farce. I felt guilty for even getting in the water at this point. And so, it kinda hit me. I, I won't say I was necessarily cowering, because it didn't feel like that to me. I wasn't necessarily scared to approach the topic, I just thought someone else would. I thought a coach would say something. I thought some other swimmer. I thought someone with political power, someone within the NCAA. Quite honestly, I thought someone's dad would come down there and yank this man out of our locker rooms. But it was in that moment, um, where we were standing on the podium, myself included. I, I'm standing on the podium. And we're clapping, and we're smiling, and we're cheering. And it hit me. I'm like, "What in the world are we clapping for?" Because, I mean, really what we're applauding is our own erasure, our own demolition. And so, uh, it was right then and there that, uh, again, like a slap across the face, I was like, "How in the world can we, as women, as female athletes, expect someone to stand up for us if we aren't even willing to stand up for us?" Like, this has to come from us. Um, s- so again, I knew all season that the unfair competition was wrong. I knew all season that the locker room aspect was wrong. I knew that the silencing that we were facing from our universities, I knew all of that was wrong. We all did. But it wasn't until this official reduced everything that we had worked our entire lives for down to a photo op to validate the feelings and the identity of a man at the expense of our own. That's, that's really when I, I decided that I couldn't continue being silent.

Joe Rogan 27:42 And so what was the first thing that you did?

Riley Gaines 27:45 Um, as you can imagine, uh, there was a ton of reporters there, like I said, which swimming is not a sport that garners media attention. Uh, but there- this meet was unique because there was. And so my inbox was filled with different reporters who had been reaching out to me from all the different outlets, left-leaning, right-leaning, everything in between, uh, who were desperately hoping to get a quote or an interview that they could take back to their editor, um, so they could have the story. 'Cause up until this point, remember, really no one had spoken about this, at least not with their, their face and their name to it. Um, some people anonymously. Even some of his teammates had spoken anonymously at this point. Um, and so we had been ... This training that we went to previously, I mentioned, where we had to lo- use- learn how to use she/her pronouns.

Joe Rogan 28:33 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 28:33 Uh, we were also told that any media, uh, opportunity that came our way, we had to forward on to our sports information director. Um-

Joe Rogan 28:42 Now, had this been the case in the past?

Riley Gaines 28:44 Oh. They had never addressed this in the past, because again, swimming is just not a sport where this is ever-

Joe Rogan 28:50 So you had never been contacted by the media previously in your career?

Riley Gaines 28:52 Uh, I mean, I'd done some stuff with ESPN and, and, you know, uh, whole- I broke the SEC record, uh, and all that stuff. And so that was a pretty big deal. And, and so there had been other stuff, but all mild, like softball kinda thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:06 But there was nothing where you had to-

Riley Gaines 29:07 No.

Joe Rogan 29:07 ... run it by-

Riley Gaines 29:08 No training.

Joe Rogan 29:08 ... other people-

Riley Gaines 29:09 No.

Joe Rogan 29:09 ... before you were allowed to have these conversations?

Riley Gaines 29:11 Correct.

Joe Rogan 29:12 So this was the first time?

Riley Gaines 29:13 Correct. And so, um, they told us though, like, "We'll help you coordinate."

Joe Rogan 29:18 S- can I ask you- can I pause you there?

Riley Gaines 29:20 Come on.

Joe Rogan 29:20 I- do they have the right to do that? Do the- is it anywhere established that they can dictate who you're allowed to communicate with in the media? Has this ever been an issue before where they can restrict your ability to communicate? Like-

Riley Gaines 29:33 Not that I know of. Um, I will say, like ... A- and I'll be honest here, like m- my school, University of Kentucky, uh, the athletic side of the university a- and of this space treated me awesome. Like my athletic director, Mitch Barnhart at Kentucky, who's been there for 20+ years, an incredible Christian, uh, just an incredible stand-up guy who leads with, by example. He's a wonderful human. He's always been supportive of me. Um, not even necessarily my stance, but supportive of me, which means a lot. Uh, and my coach, Lars Jorgensen, who had coached there for 10 years at the time, um, amazing and supportive of me. But a lot of the kind of silencing and submission stuff came from the academic, academia side, or, or the compliance side of things. So my athletic side of my university was wonderful. Um-But yeah, the compliance side. Uh, I was even told specifically, "Riley, remember, uh, you signed a scholarship," and when you sign that scholarship, they went as far to say, "You gave away your rights to speak in your own personal capacity. Remember, you represent us. Remember whose name is across your chest and across your cap, because it's not your own. It's ours."

Joe Rogan 30:50 This is specifically said?

Riley Gaines 30:52 Yeah. They said, "We have already taken your stance for you."

Joe Rogan 30:55 You signed away your rights to have your opinions on something that deeply affects your life's work-

Riley Gaines 31:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:02 ... for a university-

Riley Gaines 31:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:05 ... that's terrified of pushback.

Riley Gaines 31:07 And, and understand this is not specific to just the University of Kentucky. This is why there are so few voices really speaking out, uh, in, in my position, right, like, young college-aged girls who have been impacted or affected by this. This is why so few are willing to take a stand. It's because it works. Um, look at what happened at, at Roanoke College in Virginia. It, it's the same story because it's always the same story, where this mediocre man who swims three years on the men's team decides his senior year he wants to join the women's team to become a record smasher. Same thing happened there. Uh, these girls, uh, they're getting in contact with me saying, "Hey, this boy on the boys team wants to join the women's team," um, but they told me that they got to vote on if they wanted him on the team or not. And so, uh, these girls, you know, they're talking to me. They're like, "Yeah, uh, there's 17 of us on the team, and all 17 of us are gonna say no." And I was like, "That's great." You know, we haven't seen really unity in this topic amongst a whole team, so that's wonderful. And so, um, they go into their meeting where they were told they got to anonymously vote. Uh, the coach walks in, uh, has the boy with him. He says, "Hey, uh, I know I told you the vote was gonna be anonymous, but it's actually gonna be by a show of hands, and I'm gonna let the boy here give a speech before." Uh, so the boy gets up. He gives this talk, and he says, "Hey, uh, if you don't vote yes, I will kill myself, and it will be your fault." So, as you can imagine, 13 of those 17 girls changed their vote to yes.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Oh, wow.

Riley Gaines 32:42 And it's because they were told they were going to be a murderer.

Joe Rogan 32:46 And three of them were like, "Go ahead. Kill yourself." (laughs)

Riley Gaines 32:50 (laughs) But honestly, like, think about that, though.

Joe Rogan 32:52 That's a crazy thing to say.

Riley Gaines 32:53 They're equating-

Joe Rogan 32:54 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 32:54 ... advocating for fair play and privacy in areas of undressing with having blood on your hands.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 33:02 Same thing that Lia Thomas's school, UPenn, uh, told those girls, that if they do speak out and any harm whatsoever comes towards their- h- his way, right, whether it's through social media, through, I mean, emotional harm, physical harm, self-inflicted for that matter, they told these girls that they would solely be responsible. That would make them a potential murderer, and you don't want to be a potential murderer, do you? No, so I suggest you be kind, and I suggest you be inclusive.

Joe Rogan 33:29 God, that is so insane.

Riley Gaines 33:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:31 It had to feel like a Twilight Zone.

Riley Gaines 33:34 It did. I mean, this whole process, even, even looking back now, and maybe at the time, like, I didn't necessarily see it for exactly what it is. Having really removed myself from the situation now and looking back, it's like, whoa. How did they get us all to... Not that I ever conformed. Again, I never thought this was right. But, I mean, we went along with it.

Joe Rogan 33:58 Right.

Riley Gaines 33:59 Um, and how in the world did they manage to achieve that? And I think a lot of this truly, again, being a college athlete during the time of COVID, uh, I think that's when they learned they could control us. Because again, our universities told us, um, during that time, my junior year, uh, the vaccines were mandatory. You had to get the vaccine. Me, look, at this point I'd already had COVID, right? I had the natural... I had the antibodies which I thought was the best natural immunity.

Joe Rogan 34:29 It is.

Riley Gaines 34:29 I'm young. I'm healthy.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 34:31 I'm not anti-vax or anything like that, but I, I just didn't really see the point of me getting the COVID vaccine. And so, I said no. I said, "I'm not getting that." They said, "Riley, remember you're the team captain. Uh, you're going to be hurting your team if you don't get it. And, and you're supposed to be the leader, Riley." And so I really struggled with this, because I didn't want to be hurting my team. Before my own personal success, I cared about how my team did, how my teammates did. And so I really struggled with this. Uh, but finally I realized, you know, mandatory didn't actually mean law. It doesn't actually mean required, and so I stood my ground. But truthfully, I think that's the first time that I learned how to stand up for myself, and I think that incident a- and really the whole COVID thing helped me stand up for myself in my senior year when, again, the same tactics, the same emotional bl- blackmail and gaslighting really that they were using, uh, I think it helped me in my senior year too.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Well, I'm sure it helped you see the world now that you're out in a different light, 'cause-

Riley Gaines 35:38 Definitely.

Joe Rogan 35:39 ... it's a cult. I mean, and that's really what it is, and it doesn't make sense to anybody who's not in the cult. But the people in the cult, they'll use terms like when that person said, "If you don't vote for me, I'm going to kill myself," they use these very sneaky terms like life-saving, gender-affirming care in regards to castrating children and putting them on hormone blockers and g- removing their breasts. They use this crazy term that seems like, well, it's gotta be good. It's life-saving, gender-affirming.

Riley Gaines 36:13 Sounds positive, but really, like, think about the message that even just the verbiage of gender-affirming care sends, whether it's to a minor or anyone for that matter.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Right.

Riley Gaines 36:24 We're telling them, especially kids, we're telling them that they're correct to feel as if they were born in the wrong body.Which, what a terrible, what a terrible message. Uh, we should be telling them that they're perfect just the way God created them. That's what we should be telling-

Joe Rogan 36:40 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 36:41 ... these kids. But that's, that's not the message that they're being sent.

Joe Rogan 36:44 No. It's, it's one of the most bizarre things. And you know, Da- do you-

Riley Gaines 36:47 And even, like, sorry to... But-

Joe Rogan 36:49 Okay.

Riley Gaines 36:49 ... even this, like, this verbiage of sex reassignment surgery, it sounds harmless. But when you say it, it's as if you're subconsciously admitting that you can in fact reassign your sex, which is so detrimental to the English language. A- and we're playing into their game when we use that verbiage. Even the verbiage of biological woman-

Joe Rogan 37:12 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 37:12 ... I've got such a problem with. And I didn't always, because again, I, I thought I had to make the distinction, right? I am a biological female. Thomas is a biological male. Um, I had to take a lot of math courses, upper level math courses in college. And so, I'm standing there one day and I'm like, "If this was an algebra equation, wouldn't those words 'biological' just, like, cancel each other out? Like, why are we saying that?" And then it hit me. I'm like, "How silly and redundant, as if I have to add that prerequisite of biological to declare I'm a biological being." That's so dumb-

Joe Rogan 37:46 Right.

Riley Gaines 37:46 ... quite frankly. And, and when we say it, it's as if we're subconsciously admitting that there's an un-biological alternative to being a man or a woman or a male or a female or a girl or a boy, and there's not.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Right. There's not.

Riley Gaines 38:00 So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Did you ever see that interview where that bike racer is talking to one of the late night hosts, and they were asking about-

Riley Gaines 38:06 Veronica Ivy.

Joe Rogan 38:07 ... biological women?

Riley Gaines 38:09 Come on.

Joe Rogan 38:10 And she's like, "Well, uh, I, I am a biological human being, and I am a woman. So I'm a biological woman." And the host is just like...

Riley Gaines 38:19 Yep. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:19 Like, the-

Riley Gaines 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 Fucking cowards. You're not saying anything?

Riley Gaines 38:22 Totally.

Joe Rogan 38:22 None of that seems nuts to you?

Riley Gaines 38:24 Totally. And that's, that's, that's the game that's being played here, right?

Joe Rogan 38:27 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 38:27 You give an inch, they take a mile. Uh, which is why I've, I've really realized now, like, how powerful language, our language is and the words that we use. Like, I'm very particular about what I say. Like, I won't call... I, I'll, I'll call... I, to try and just call Thomas "Thomas." Um, but people can legally change their name and, like, whatever.

Joe Rogan 38:50 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 38:50 Whatever. Um-

Joe Rogan 38:52 But that's a guy.

Riley Gaines 38:52 But I'm not calling him "she".

Joe Rogan 38:54 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 38:54 I'm not calling him "her." Um-

Joe Rogan 38:56 It's silly.

Riley Gaines 38:57 It's silly. And I won't say "trans woman" because again, that's admitting that this is some sort of subcategory of a woman.

Joe Rogan 39:04 Well-

Riley Gaines 39:04 He's just a man.

Joe Rogan 39:05 The Thais have had it right forever. They don't pretend that they're women. They said, "I'm a lady boy."

Riley Gaines 39:10 "I'm a lady boy."

Joe Rogan 39:11 Yeah. And that's like okay.

Riley Gaines 39:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:13 It's like an accepted category.

Riley Gaines 39:14 It's like okay. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:15 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 39:15 No. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 39:17 (sighs)

Riley Gaines 39:17 Transparency. So yeah. Um, all of that to say, (laughs) to get back to the very first question-

Joe Rogan 39:24 Right.

Riley Gaines 39:25 ... never in my, in my short 23 years would I have imagined that it's necessary to take the steps and the actions that we're taking. Um, to even have to define this word woman.

Joe Rogan 39:38 Right.

Riley Gaines 39:39 Right? But, but we've reached a point now where not only is it necessary, I would argue that it's urgent-

Joe Rogan 39:45 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 39:45 ... we define this word. In the nearly 250-ish years we've been established as a country, we have never struggled to define this word.

Joe Rogan 39:53 Right.

Riley Gaines 39:54 Yet here in 2024, we have a sitting Supreme Court justice who can't even answer what a woman is because she claims she's not a biologist.

Joe Rogan 40:02 Right.

Riley Gaines 40:02 Well, guess what? I'm not a veterinarian, but I know what a dog is. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. Um-

Joe Rogan 40:08 It's a very dumb conversation.

Riley Gaines 40:10 It is. And so, uh, a big piece of what I've been working on, um, I've been working with Independent Women's Forum, uh, to develop and create a new piece of legislation that does just that, define the word woman, "woman," and other sex-based terms in, in statute. Uh, it's been passed now in four different states. Uh, Kansas; Tennessee; Oklahoma; and Nebraska. Both Oklahoma and Nebraska by executive order, which... And great leadership by Governor Pillen and Governor Stitt of Oklahoma. It's tracking in like 13 different states right now. So again, all of that to s- to s- say, uh, it's a telltale sign of where we are as a nation when we have to do what we're doing.

Joe Rogan 40:52 Well, it's, it's requiring a lot more pushback than most people are willing to do.

Riley Gaines 40:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Because the activists on the side of promoting this nonsense are very loud, and they've made it their entire identity to get this across. And they also connect themselves to the idea of this, air quotes, "progress" being ubiquitous, that it spreads across the country. And that this is, this is for them a sign that the world is moving in the right direction. So they're, like, vehemently opposed to any pushback against this.

Riley Gaines 41:27 Come on.

Joe Rogan 41:27 And they're, they're really aggressive.

Riley Gaines 41:29 They are.

Joe Rogan 41:29 But everyone on the side that's like, "This is fucking crazy," most of those people have jobs and families-

Riley Gaines 41:36 Families.

Joe Rogan 41:36 ... and obligations, and they're fucking busy. And the- they do not have time to, uh, sit at a council meeting with these fucking lunatics.

Riley Gaines 41:44 12:00 PM on a, a Monday, right?

Joe Rogan 41:46 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 41:46 I know.

Joe Rogan 41:47 And, and have them scream into microphones, "You're committing trans genocide." And you're like, "Oh, okay. What the fuck?" What is this?

Riley Gaines 41:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:53 What is this and how do I... How did this get started? It's like a zombie disease that made its way across the entire country. And you're like, "Well, who got bit first?"

Riley Gaines 42:01 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:01 Can we figure out what the fuck happened here? Wh- who's doing this? How is it possible that anyone with children, anyone who's a father, who has daughters, is okay with this? How is that possible? This is n- nonsense at the highest level. And even though it's completely... It's not like close. You know, it's not like, "Well, I kinda see their point."

Riley Gaines 42:25 No.

Joe Rogan 42:26 It's not even remotely close. And yet it has been taken up by m- a giant swath of the greatest country the world has ever known. Like, that is very bizarre. And what I was gonna say earlier is, Douglas Murray, who's the British intellectual, who's a brilliant guy, and he said this...... and when he fir- he started saying it years ago, he's like, "Whenever a civilization is in collapse, they become obsessed with gender." It becomes a thing. It was with the Greeks-

Riley Gaines 42:53 That's true.

Joe Rogan 42:54 ... and the Romans. The- it's like... it seems to be like a symptom-

Riley Gaines 42:58 A step in the process.

Joe Rogan 42:59 Yeah, it's a thing, like, "Oh, th- see those hives that you have? Oh, you're infected. Oh, you're sick." Oh, you're, you're, you're... everyone's, like, changing their gender and you got 50% of kids in some colleges are LBGTQ... pl... 2... Q-

Riley Gaines 43:14 I-A-S.

Joe Rogan 43:16 ... I-A-S. What?

Riley Gaines 43:17 I know.

Joe Rogan 43:17 How is it 50%? This is a fucking mind virus. Like, what is going on here? And what Douglas has said is that this... you could find this throughout history.

Riley Gaines 43:26 Of course. A- and honestly, if you take all of the different little pieces of what we're seeing, e- especially as it pertains to, like, the cultural issues that are really plaguing this country-

Joe Rogan 43:36 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 43:36 ... right? If you look at the denial of objective truth, um, the shift in our language, like we mentioned, the, the breakdown of faith. We used to be a country that proudly said, "In God we trust" and "One nation under God." You look at the breakdown of the nuclear family and really pinning parents and kids against each other. You look at the breakdown of our freedoms, such as the freedom of speech. Uh, you look at the propaganda that's being spread through the media. I mean, the list goes on of all of these different little things. If you put them together, it points in one direction, and that direction, not to sound conspiracist or crazy here, is truly Marxism. Or, or, um... right? Like, you talk to someone from North Korea or China or Germany or Cuba or Brazil or Venezuela or, or Russia, or any of these countries that have once embraced this socialist, communist, Marxist regime, and they will tell you that it's a slippery slope. And it's a slippery slope, but by the hands and feet of our own leaders, the people in the White House, we are actively being led down. Um, and d- and like you said, sex, the most basic of truths, the sheer essence of humanity... Hate to break it to you, myself, every single person watching and listening, you're all here from man and woman. And B- so, so being asked to deny that is as if we're being asked to deny that the sky is blue, um, or being told to say two plus two is five. And if anyone has read 1984 or looked... had a, a brief understanding of history, like you said, you will understand what it means when we start saying two plus two is five.

Joe Rogan 45:24 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 45:25 Um, it's a pretty scary, chilling th- thought, really. Um...

Joe Rogan 45:30 Well, if they can get you to give up one of the most basic things-

Riley Gaines 45:35 There's no limits.

Joe Rogan 45:36 Yes. Exactly.

Riley Gaines 45:37 There's no limits.

Joe Rogan 45:37 Exactly. And that... Look. And, and I, I agree with you that it did start during COVID, because it started during this exercise of control and mandating things-

Riley Gaines 45:48 They realized.

Joe Rogan 45:48 Yeah. And they didn't do it based on any data. They didn't do it... especially with young athletes. Especially with young athletes.

Riley Gaines 45:54 No.

Joe Rogan 45:54 What they did to do is do that so that if you can get compliance with absolutely everybody, so if you can get the people who don't need this medication at all to mandate it for children, for, for young, healthy athletes, for people that have zero fear of dying from COVID, and if you can force them into doing it, you can kind of force them to do a lot of things. If you can force them to, like, accept the most chaotic notion, like that we shouldn't have a border and just let people run through, and if it's terrorists, "Well, hey, I mean maybe they want a better life."

Riley Gaines 46:32 Like, this... come on. Come on.

Joe Rogan 46:33 Like, what? You n- you're not... you don't... you're not gonna vet anybody? You're gonna let them in? And now you're saying that some of them should be allowed to vote? And you're gonna give-

Riley Gaines 46:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:39 ... some of them money? And then New York City has this scam where they're giving them debit cards with, like, up to $10,000? And then, meanwhile, poorer people who live in New York City who are citizens of the United States, they're shit out of luck. Sorry.

Riley Gaines 46:51 What about my husband, who's an immigrant? Uh, he came over from, uh, England, but did it the right way. Uh, we've been married for almost two years, and Joe, he still doesn't have his green card. Yet you have people-

Joe Rogan 47:03 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 47:03 ... walking over the border-

Joe Rogan 47:05 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 47:05 ... and they obtain it with ease.

Joe Rogan 47:07 Yes.

Riley Gaines 47:07 It makes it harder for people like my husband and my family, where it's harder to travel, it's harder for, uh, job purposes when you don't have your documentation that you need. So you're right, it, it makes it harder on, uh, on not only Americans, but the people who want to do it the right way.

Joe Rogan 47:26 Do you... what... do you think about it? Like, why are they doing that? Do you think they're doing it to import voters? Do you think they're doing it because some industries want to encourage cheap labor, that this can break unions? Because if you've got a bunch of people that are undocumented, it's legal to hire them and you could pay them less. Why would you need a union when these people are just happy with whatever you give them?

Riley Gaines 47:46 Exactly. Here's what I think. I... Joe Biden has every... he, he has the power right now to secure the border. He has that power, uh, but he won't do it. So to me, what this looks like is the planned and controlled destruction of this nation. Um, reasons why? Uh, I don't know if it's to get voters. I don't know if it's to, you know, what really the purpose is. But make no mistake, this is planned and it's controlled, um, again, by the people leading this nation, which is a terrifying thought.

Joe Rogan 48:25 Well, it makes sense. It sounds nuts, and if you had said this 20 years ago, I was like, "This bitch is out of her mind." Right? Just like, this, this is a-

Riley Gaines 48:32 (laughs) Like, "What are we doing inviting Riley here?"

Joe Rogan 48:34 ... c- c- c- controlled destruction of our United States. But now you look at it and you go, "Well, may- hold on." I mean, if they learned anything from CO- COVID, one of the things they learned is that...... during a period of destabilization, people are much more compliant. And COVID was a massive period of destabilization to the point where they put into place illogical laws that restricted people's ability to keep their businesses open while leaving gigantic businesses wide open. Walk through Target, no one gets sick there. But if you go to Mom and Pop's candle shop, everyone's gonna die. And none of that made any sense.

Riley Gaines 49:08 No.

Joe Rogan 49:08 None of it made any sense, and they got us to get through with that. If they can destabilize the country in the form of letting violence into the country, and, and then also but at the same time simultaneously cracking down on gun laws in America and imposing more-

Riley Gaines 49:22 Good point.

Joe Rogan 49:22 ... gun control on the citizens, I mean, uh, y- I don't wanna fucking secure my tinfoil hat on-

Riley Gaines 49:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:27 ... like, really... But if I was gonna do it, if I was an evil person who had this goal of the destruction of America, that's how I would do it.

Riley Gaines 49:39 Of course.

Joe Rogan 49:39 I would get everybody involved in the most nonsensical bullshit arguments, like use 78 different gender pronouns. The, and if you call someone a ze/zir... We had this, uh, conversation with Christopher Rufo the other day.

Riley Gaines 49:53 I saw.

Joe Rogan 49:54 It, the ze/zir thing, like he's literally gotta go to court, uh, because he was not willing to call someone ze/zir.

Riley Gaines 50:02 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:02 So he's got, he's got to be charged with a crime. They have to see whether or not he committed some hate crime-

Riley Gaines 50:10 Well, that's like, um-

Joe Rogan 50:11 ... because he didn't use a made-up pronoun.

Riley Gaines 50:13 This whole new Title IX rewrite that the Biden administration is pursuing, that will be, I believe, announced in the next couple weeks, um, the, and under this new rewrite, it is sexual harassment. You would be guilty and charged with sexual harassment if you, a 17-year-old girl who is housed with a male in your dorm room, if you go to your administration and complain, expressing that you feel uncomfortable being housed with a male, you're charged with sexual harassment. Not the man-

Joe Rogan 50:46 (sighs)

Riley Gaines 50:46 ... who's parading around your locker room or your bathroom, uh, no, that's brave or stunning or inspiring or whatever other virtuous-

Joe Rogan 50:54 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 50:54 ... word they wanna use, but you calling a spade a spade is grounds for sexual harassment.

Joe Rogan 51:00 Bananas.

Riley Gaines 51:02 Bananas.

Joe Rogan 51:02 Like, not even...

Riley Gaines 51:04 Like, a whole bunch of bananas.

Joe Rogan 51:05 Yeah, like if you saw it in a fucking movie, you'd be like, "No way." If there was a movie that someone put out in 2003 and this was the plot, you'd be like, "Shut the fuck up. That's never gonna fly."

Riley Gaines 51:15 Here we are.

Joe Rogan 51:15 "That's so ridiculous." And here we are, and it's moving further and further in that direction. You're seeing gaslighting on an unprecedented level. There was this group of people that gotten interviewed by the New York Times. They're, that are super fans of Joe Biden, that don't give a f-

Riley Gaines 51:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:35 It, it's wild. I mean, it's wild. It's wild to see these people. "I think he's amazing, and I think what he's doing is the greatest, the greatest one-term that any president..." He's done more... Karine Jean-Pierre, or whatever the fuck her name is-

Riley Gaines 51:49 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 51:49 ... said that the other day. She said that he, this his administration... They asked him, "Why, why does Biden need cue cards for everything? Why does he need cue cards when he sits down? Why doesn't he cue... Like, why does he need those things?" Was the question. And she just rattles off how what Joe Biden has done more in these three years than most presidents do in two terms.

Riley Gaines 52:07 What, literally what?

Joe Rogan 52:07 Let, opened the border-

Riley Gaines 52:09 Listed, listed-

Joe Rogan 52:09 ... killed the economy, fund two fucking crazy wars-

Riley Gaines 52:12 But that's what you'll find too when, when-

Joe Rogan 52:13 ... died, pull out of Afghanistan.

Riley Gaines 52:15 When you have these Biden super fans, um, you'll ask them, "Okay, well, well, what is it that you like that Biden has done?"

Joe Rogan 52:23 "He's amazing."

Riley Gaines 52:24 "Well, I just like what he stands for."

Joe Rogan 52:27 He's inclusive. Yeah.

Riley Gaines 52:27 They can't list anything.

Joe Rogan 52:29 It's, well, it's, it's just nonsense. It's like, "I like the 49ers." That's all it is. They're on a team-

Riley Gaines 52:33 Come on.

Joe Rogan 52:33 ... and they'll fucking support that team full stop, no matter what. And it's that same sort of behavior that exists in any group of people that's ideologically captured, whether, you know, you're a fucking lifelong Red Sox fan or you're a, a Democrat to the death, blue no matter who. And there, there's people that just do that proudly and they, they-

Riley Gaines 52:54 That's true.

Joe Rogan 52:55 ... they announce it on Twitter, and they get a bunch of, ugh, bunch of people with 30 cats in their comments all commenting, "Yay."

Riley Gaines 53:01 That's on both sides.

Joe Rogan 53:01 And all these mentally ill people. Oh, 100%.

Riley Gaines 53:03 It's on both sides.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Oh, yeah.

Riley Gaines 53:05 Uh, and, and that's what I've been. You know, I've always been my whole life, like, I would say before being conservative, I, I've always been a Christian. And so my values as a Christian align more conservative. Um, but what I've noticed this past two years, um, I'm really eye-opened, uh, to the amount of corruption, to the amount of string pulling, um, to the amount of really crazy people on both sides. Uh, so we talk a lot about the left, because, because they don't try and mask theirs, at least the, like, very extreme radical left, like those protestors or, or the people who protest me, which, like, psycho. I was in Milwaukee recently and I had protestors stand outside my hotel room for hours, Joe, hours, chanting, "Riley can't swim." I'm like, "That's the best you've got?"

Joe Rogan 54:02 That's kinda fun.

Riley Gaines 54:02 "Riley can't swim." It is. I loved it.

Joe Rogan 54:04 That's kinda good. When you're so good that that's all they could say.

Riley Gaines 54:06 I would challenge any of them to a race.

Joe Rogan 54:09 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 54:09 (laughs) Um, so we, we see the left being crazy.

Joe Rogan 54:12 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 54:12 But there's some crazy people on our side too.

Joe Rogan 54:14 Oh, 100%. It's a human characteristic, and people, they jump into these ideologies not because they're well thought out and because it makes sense. It's 'cause human beings are tribal by nature. And when we find a group... Look, I see people talk about cults sometimes, like in a documentary, I'm like, "Ah, seems like fun."

Riley Gaines 54:32 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Like... (laughs) And I'm n- and I'm a, a grown man. If I was a 18-year-old boy and that happened, or a 16-year-old boy and I encountered them, I'm young and impressionable, 100% I could get sucked into it. You can get sucked into the left, you could get sucked into the right.

Riley Gaines 54:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:47 And then you're around like-minded people and the nuttiest, most ambitious, and mo- fuck, most fucking psychotic of that group are the ones in the far outlines. It's the Patriot Front on one side and it's Antifa on the other side.

Riley Gaines 54:59 Come on.

Joe Rogan 54:59 And this is what happens. And this is what happens with human beings. And those people, they'll allow the Antifa people to fucking b- blow up things and light things on fire, like, "Well, some violence is necessary to achieve a means." It's like the strong arm of the Democratic Party. And then for the right, they've gotta kinda ignore the really loony, right-wing, fucking confederate flag dudes. Like, you gotta-

Riley Gaines 55:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:23 ... like, kinda push those aside too. But it's...... it's just a... Who's in charge? The Democrats, they're in charge. Who's running the media? The Democrats, almost universally.

Riley Gaines 55:32 They've overtaken every-

Joe Rogan 55:34 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 55:34 ... public square.

Joe Rogan 55:35 Right.

Riley Gaines 55:35 Whether it's academia, whether it's corporate America, whether it's, yeah-

Joe Rogan 55:40 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 55:40 ... our government, the media. I mean every-

Joe Rogan 55:42 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 55:42 ... every public square, which is why now, honestly, I feel like a lot of people who maybe would have considered themselves previously of ki- as kind of, like, apolitical or, or, um, you know, someone who didn't really look at what's going on around the world, like you said, have jobs and families, they have their heads down, they're not-

Joe Rogan 56:00 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 56:00 ... they don't look at the outside noise. I think it's waking a lot of people up, um, which is a good thing. That's-

Joe Rogan 56:06 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 56:06 ... the beauty of a democracy, really, uh, the American republic, is having the people as the power. We, we do have the power. And I feel like we're, we're engaging those people.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think there's enough people that are realizing that this whole system is, like, completely fucked, and that it's really just about money and power and control. And they use all these social issues as, uh, y- you know, i- it's like a galvanizing force to get whatever their financial agenda is pushed through. That's all it is. Like when the Biden administration is talking about DEI and all this stuff, it's just, just tied into banks, it's how they can fund businesses and give them loans.

Riley Gaines 56:45 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 56:46 If you have more people that are this, we'll give you more of that. And it's just a way to control businesses. And the whole thing is just all about money. The, it's, it's all a gigantic con game. And the more... Like I said, if I was a fucking tinfoil hat guy-

Riley Gaines 56:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:59 (laughs) ... if I was thinking that this is someone trying to destroy the country, this is how I would do it.

Riley Gaines 57:04 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 57:04 I would have people willing to vote for their own demise, not advocating for freedom, if that freedom gives freedom to the people that are opposed to them. We're so stupid and sh- close-minded, we're willing to burn it all down just to silence people-

Riley Gaines 57:22 Take away everyone's freedom.

Joe Rogan 57:22 Right, take away everyone's freedom, because I don't want that person who disagrees with me to have freedom.

Riley Gaines 57:27 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 57:28 It is-

Riley Gaines 57:28 When you put it that way, it's-

Joe Rogan 57:30 It is.

Riley Gaines 57:30 ... exactly what's happening.

Joe Rogan 57:30 It is exactly what's happening, and it's n- not the case when I was a kid. When I was a young guy, like, you could... Like, I had friends whose parents were conservative, and my parents were hippies, and they hung out together.

Riley Gaines 57:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Everybody would go to dinner together. Like, no one cared.

Riley Gaines 57:45 Yeah, there's no more gray area, so it seems.

Joe Rogan 57:47 They could talk about stuff, you know? Like, they could have-

Riley Gaines 57:50 Forget it.

Joe Rogan 57:50 ... agreements of what Reagan was good at. Like, there was, like, conversations, "Well, you know, one thing Reagan really did good." Like, my fucking dad was saying that. Like-

Riley Gaines 57:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:57 ... w- watching these people today, it's like you're, the orcs are fighting against the hobbits. Like, this is crazy.

Riley Gaines 58:04 Very true.

Joe Rogan 58:04 Everyone so opposed. It's, like, so polarized. And again, if I was from another country, and I was trying to ruin America, and I was like, "How could I do this?" That's how I would do it.

Riley Gaines 58:13 Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:13 I would do it this way.

Riley Gaines 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 And then I would do it through social media, and I would have the Democrats almost universally control social media.

Riley Gaines 58:20 Of course they do.

Joe Rogan 58:20 Except this one wild African American. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 58:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:25 This one wild genius dude decides to buy Twitter.

Riley Gaines 58:28 Isn't it amazing?

Joe Rogan 58:29 Amazing. If he didn't do that, we would genuinely be fucked.

Riley Gaines 58:32 Totally.

Joe Rogan 58:32 We would be in a real pickle.

Riley Gaines 58:33 Honestly, Twitter, or X now, is, is really where I get, like, all my news. Like, I don't even, um, resort to a lot of the mainstream media places, at least for breaking news. Like, I'll find it on X. Uh, so God bless Elon Musk. I, I really think that he has, um, almost single-handedly... There's been, there's been, uh, I would say some pivotal pe- people or, or groups in this culture who have really helped turn some things around. I think the Babylon Bee has done a phenomenal-

Joe Rogan 59:01 Yes.

Riley Gaines 59:01 ... job of-

Joe Rogan 59:02 But they were banned from Twitter.

Riley Gaines 59:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:03 And that was one of the breaking points for Elon.

Riley Gaines 59:05 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 59:06 When he found out they were banned from Twitter, he's like, "Uh, what the fuck?"

Riley Gaines 59:09 It was a turning point.

Joe Rogan 59:10 But I mean-

Riley Gaines 59:10 And so, I- I really think he's single-handedly almost, um, really turned this culture around. So God bless him.

Joe Rogan 59:20 He's definitely made it take a turn. And, and p- for anybody who thinks that's exaggerating, you have to take into consideration, that is not a business move that any corporation that wants to make-

Riley Gaines 59:30 No.

Joe Rogan 59:30 ... money would have approved.

Riley Gaines 59:32 No.

Joe Rogan 59:32 If you're Elon Musk, you can do it. But there's, like, maybe five of those guys on Earth-

Riley Gaines 59:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... that could just buy something for $44 billion.

Riley Gaines 59:41 (laughs) That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 59:42 That's really probably n- worth half that.

Riley Gaines 59:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:45 So you could never justify it on paper.

Riley Gaines 59:47 No.

Joe Rogan 59:47 So he's an insane person.

Riley Gaines 59:48 He is.

Joe Rogan 59:49 And who's dedicated to free speech and just happens to have $200 million do- $200 billion, so he can step in and do that. And when they tell him about advertising, uh, d- that was one of my favorite speeches ever. He was like, "Go fuck yourself."

Riley Gaines 1:00:01 (laughs) Isn't that awesome?

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 It was amazing.

Riley Gaines 1:00:03 It was perfect.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 He goes, "If you're gonna blackmail me with money, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna do that, go fuck yourself."

Riley Gaines 1:00:08 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 And then he goes, "Hi, Bob."

Riley Gaines 1:00:11 And that's... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:00:11 That's hilarious. But honestly, like, that right there is what this nation, again, really this world is lacking, is strong leadership.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:00:22 Strong male leadership in particular. We don't see a lot of these, these men, right? We picture men as these, like, dominant, aggressive, assertive leaders who protect and provide. Our nation is failing because we don't have those male leaders. We don't have people who are, um, who have backbones and a moral compass. But Elon Musk has the perfect combination of a backbone and a moral compass, which is sad-

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 And-

Riley Gaines 1:00:48 ... when you think about it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 ... also, he's smarter than everybody. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:00:52 Boom.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 So he sees-

Riley Gaines 1:00:52 And he's rich.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 He's, and he sees where all this is going. He's like, "You people are out of your fucking minds. Like-"

Riley Gaines 1:00:56 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 "... what are you doing?"

Riley Gaines 1:00:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 So he literally has to step in and buy a social media platform. And then upon doing so, they release all these emails to these journalists, like Michael Shellenberger or Matt Taibbi, and you, you find out through all this that they've been in contact with the FBI-

Riley Gaines 1:01:13 This whole time.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 ... and the FBI has been telling them to delete accounts and get rid of posts, and...

Riley Gaines 1:01:18 My account was deleted. Um...... prior, I guess, prior to the Elon Musk era. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 What did you write that was the big offense?

Riley Gaines 1:01:27 There are two sexes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 (gasps)

Riley Gaines 1:01:29 I know, God forbid, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 Isn't that amazing?

Riley Gaines 1:01:31 Jail. Put me in jail.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 A biological truth, like, o- c-, but okay. Can I get a review? Can we go to a textbook please?

Riley Gaines 1:01:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 How many sexes does it say? In the textbook.

Riley Gaines 1:01:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 I think it says two. Does that say two? It says-

Riley Gaines 1:01:43 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 ... two sexes, male and female. So I was right?

Riley Gaines 1:01:47 Let's ban the book too.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Like, what, what does that mean?

Riley Gaines 1:01:49 So yeah, so, um, but I, I was able to make a new account under Elon Musk.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 With, with Elon.

Riley Gaines 1:01:55 On Twitter.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah, luckily.

Riley Gaines 1:01:56 And it's the only platform-

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 (sighs)

Riley Gaines 1:01:57 ... that I've found where I don't get my videos or posts removed. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Yeah, see every one of them.

Riley Gaines 1:02:04 TikTok, right?

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 They're the most-

Riley Gaines 1:02:04 I was hesitant for TikTok for a long time, for a lot of reasons, right? Like, we, we s- hear that the Chinese are spying on us and gonna take our information and blah, blah, blah. Um, so I didn't wanna post on TikTok for a long time. But I went on my, I had a profile, I'd sometimes view videos. Again, never really posting. And then-

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:02:22 ... one day I go to my profile and I have like 20,000 followers having never posted. I'm like, "This is crazy." Like, clearly there's an audience here on, on TikTok. Um, and it's unique because it's a younger audience, which has been a big push of mine is to target younger people, people my age, to, to really engage them and help them see what's going on. So I was like, "Maybe I will start posting to TikTok." Um, my videos went, went viral, um, and every single video is, is like deleted now. But I have like almost, I think, 400,000 followers having only posted like a couple times. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 And so they'll delete you if you talk about gender issues.

Riley Gaines 1:03:01 Anything.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Now is this-

Riley Gaines 1:03:02 I could report like a factual-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Mm-hmm.

Riley Gaines 1:03:05 ... real story that had happened saying nothing outlandish, nothing, um, and it's deleted.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Now again, let's go back to my theory that someone's trying to destroy the country. If I was the Chinese government, and I was in control of a social media platform that's the most addictive and the most used by young kids, I would have as much confusion on there as possible. And I would have as much men with-

Riley Gaines 1:03:31 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 ... beards and lipsticks and long nails, telling you that all your kids are gonna be trans, and have that shit everywhere.

Riley Gaines 1:03:37 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 And never take it down. And anyone who combats this, anyone that, like, starts making sense and resonates with people, get them out of here. Just get them the fuck out of here. This is a propaganda machine.

Riley Gaines 1:03:48 And they're laughing the whole time.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 And it is owned by China, and it is some of the most fucking troublesome spyware that they've ever examined. When guys have back engineered the, the Twitter code, the, the, the, the fucking coder guys who've gone over that, they were like, "Oh my God." (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:04:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 "This is crazy. This is the most invasive we've ever seen." It has access to your keystrokes. So like say if you're using TikTok and then you're also, like, sending emails, it's gonna know what your, your emails are.

Riley Gaines 1:04:17 (sighs) That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 It's gonna know, it's gonna be able to listen to your, your voice. It's gonna be able to videotape you. It's gonna have access to all sorts of aspects of your phone. Not necessarily saying it's gonna use those things.

Riley Gaines 1:04:27 But it has 'em.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 But it's going to have th- the access to it. All that's in there. Now imagine a scenario where China attacks Taiwan. China attacks Taiwan and all of a sudden we're in this weird proxy hot war with China, as well as a weird proxy hot war with Russia. And then China starts fucking with the phones. All these people that have TikTok on their phones. How many accounts are there? How many, how many different-

Riley Gaines 1:04:51 No telling.

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 ... people can they target that have children, and then these people are high level p- political people?

Riley Gaines 1:04:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 How many people that are in board meetings? How many people that are coming home on their phone having conversations in private with their wife about the real problems that we have right now with corruption and the Biden laptop is real, and the, that, that, that kind of shit?

Riley Gaines 1:05:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 They're, they're gonna have those, all those recordings. They're gonna literally be able to listen to anybody they want. They've paid people... What they've done is w- really fascinating. They've gotten, like, high speed internet routers and cell phone routers, all these, and they sell them cheaper. And so people buy them.

Riley Gaines 1:05:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 And they, and they've already found that some of these have third party accessibility.

Riley Gaines 1:05:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 And they're putting them near, like, nuclear facilities. The Chinese people, they go, "Like, we'll sell you these cell phone towers cheaper and just put them over there where you fucking test jets." (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:05:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 And we're like, "Wow, that saves some money. What a great idea."

Riley Gaines 1:05:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 And so we buy all their shit and their infrastructure is everywhere. They own farmland everywhere.

Riley Gaines 1:05:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 All over the country.

Riley Gaines 1:05:57 This-

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 And they own a lot of farm around, land, lands around military bases.

Riley Gaines 1:06:01 Right. Is this you saying I should delete TikTok? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 I'm saying, I'm putting my fucking tinfoil hat on. I think it's like we were like, "No, they would never do that." If you think about all the times in history that governments have over- overthrown other countries, that have invaded other countries, and they've done it-

Riley Gaines 1:06:18 We're on par.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 ... with the only methods that were available then. The only methods were, that were available then-

Riley Gaines 1:06:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 ... you need tanks and guns and planes and weapons and bombs and shit, or boats.

Riley Gaines 1:06:26 Not anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Not anymore?

Riley Gaines 1:06:27 Not anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 Now you need fucking cyber stuff. And with that, you could literally destroy the, the way, the morals and the ethics of an entire generation of people, cast aside any ideas... They're trying to do things now where they're talking about minor-attracted persons.

Riley Gaines 1:06:43 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 And you're seeing elected politicians, elected officials talking about m- being very clear that this is an identity, that these are minor-attracted persons.

Riley Gaines 1:06:56 It's sick.

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 But-

Riley Gaines 1:06:56 It's really that, right? You, you s- you have people talking about pedophiles being maps, they'll call them. Uh, whether it's, uh, this video recently that Libs of TikTok posted of these children in, I think Oklahoma, maybe sucking on toes. Did you see that?

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:07:15 Of teachers or adults or whoever these people are.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 Is that what it was?

Riley Gaines 1:07:18 Sick. Yes, it was a fundraiser.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 What they, they, the children-

Riley Gaines 1:07:22 No, no bake sale.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 ... sucked on the toes of the adults?

Riley Gaines 1:07:23 No car wash. Sucking toes was going to be their fundraiser.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 It's definitely adults?

Riley Gaines 1:07:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 That's-

Riley Gaines 1:07:29 Definitely adults. Or whether it's now you have these men, the CDC that says men can produce breast milk and lactate. L- I got news for you. Any man, any man who forces a baby to latch onto his nipple and suck it is using that baby as an erotic prop. And right, they do this under the guise of human rights. It is not a human right for anyone to sexually abuse a child. Um, so all of that to say, there's this big push, so it seems, whether it's the gender ideology movement, there's this big push to seemingly normalize pedophilia. Um, which is grotesque, it is perverse, it's disgusting. Parents who are okay with this, Democrats who are okay with this, who vote in favor of a lot of this nonsense stuff, you're a sell-out to your own child. And honestly, I think there's a separate conversation that needs to be had if you are an elected official voting in favor of this stuff with kids. I think there's a separate conversation that needs to be had involving CPS because, again, that's disgusting, to say the least.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 And it's always been morally reprehensible. It's always been a thing that we wanted to kill people for, and now all of a sudden we're saying that it's an identity. Again, if I was trying to destroy a country, I would throw that into the educational system and I'd make it seem virtuous to discuss this-

Riley Gaines 1:08:57 Good as bad.

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 ... in an open-minded and objective way. Like, they can't help who they identify with.

Riley Gaines 1:09:03 Well, and honestly, right, like, again, being a Christian, the Bible tells us that we will reach a point a- and, and Paul says it in Acts and Romans, in different places, he tells us that we will reach a point where bitter is seen as sweet, dark is seen as light, and evil is seen as moral. It's undeniable that that's not what we're seeing now. And look, that's not to say that people who identify as trans are evil. I don't necessarily think that. But what is evil is deception.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:09:36 Manipulation is evil. Temptation is evil. Lying and affirming delusions, that's evil. And that's exactly how Satan works and how he operates, is in the darkness. But now a lot of it is coming to light again, um-

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 It sounds-

Riley Gaines 1:09:50 ... thanks to people like Elon Musk.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 It sounds loony when we start having these kind of conversations about, like, Satan and evil and good and, you know, and biblical stories. But I, as more as time goes on, I think that what the Bible is, is I think at one point in time, there was a very sophisticated society that got wiped out by some sort of a massive natural disaster. And then over time, they told the stories that they had learned since they stopped writing things down and they probably had to live like barbarians for thousands of years. But they always had the stories. It, it... Like li- literally the Big Bang, "In the beginning, there was light." If you told that for thousands of years, that's what that would be.

Riley Gaines 1:10:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:35 Th- th- the Adam and Eve in the garden, the creation, that someone created this, like that they were trying to tell us, and that men can go down evil, wicked ways and it can lead to destruction, and these are some of the symptoms that you'll see when it leads to destruction. It's like this is like a map of civilization.

Riley Gaines 1:10:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 It's just so old and it's been translated so many times from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic and all these different languages down to Greek and Latin and, and English finally. It's like, there's so much, like, what was really said? What was really going on? Because a lot of it seems too on the money.

Riley Gaines 1:11:12 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:11:12 Like if we wanted to try to put this through some sort of a logical filter or figure out, like, is someone really trying to warn us about the natural progression that all societies and all civilizations go down if you don't have a moral compass and if you don't follow and adhere to the rules of God?

Riley Gaines 1:11:31 Well, there's still stuff that hasn't yet... Right? Like the, what has been prophesied that hasn't yet happened. Uh, so time will tell, right? Um, I think Jesus is, his return is, is past due. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 It's like Dr. Manhattan in The Watchmen.

Riley Gaines 1:11:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 If that would be the wildest... Forget about UFOs. (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:11:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 UFOs would be pretty wild. UFOs on the White House lawn would be wild. Jesus on the White House lawn, wow. That would be the game-changer.

Riley Gaines 1:12:01 I pray for that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 But d-

Riley Gaines 1:12:03 Like, come back please.

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 God, do you think people would even believe it? They would think, "Oh my God, this is Illuminati." This would be the-

Riley Gaines 1:12:07 Our, our media would spin it some way.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 Well, our fucking just people on Reddit, like P- the people that are like-

Riley Gaines 1:12:12 Reddit. What a, what a platform.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 ... 4chan people. (laughs) What a platform.

Riley Gaines 1:12:13 What a platform. Oh my gosh, I have seen some of the craziest stuff on Reddit.

Joe Rogan 1:12:20 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:12:20 And I don't have a Reddit, I don't have a Reddit account. That is not my space. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 But you go in and look at things sometimes.

Riley Gaines 1:12:26 But, but people will post, like, other Reddit clips, um, and I, I speak a lot on these, on college campuses, again, with the intention of, of really trying to garner, um, support from the youth, but also encouraging them to find their own voice and to be bold and to, to be, um, leaders themselves, um, all done through the Leadership Institute, which is just a phenomenal group. But, um, a lot of these college campuses I speak on, uh, the protesters, when they hear I'm coming, they'll go to Reddit and they'll start going off, uh, which is hilarious to look at. But honestly, it's kind of scary. Like, a lot of these people, uh, for instance, I was at San Francisco State a few months back, um, which was my first mistake, going to fricking San Francisco.

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 Right.

Riley Gaines 1:13:19 But I went there with the intention of, right, like, talking about what you and I have talked about, at least from, from that national cham- championship standpoint, everything that we went through, why it's important.I went there, uh, and what a naive thought to think that these people, these students would come with an open mind and the willingness to have their hearts softened, because they did not. Uh, they came with their pitchforks and fire. And, um, upon me delivering my speech in, in a, a classroom setting, right, so like a podium at the front. There's seats in the class. Uh, upon delivering my speech, afterwards, uh, a group of protestors entered into the room, hundreds of them, okay? Turned off the lights, rushed to the front. I'm being, like, shoved and hit and jostled. I'm, like, so confused what's going on. Um, punched, right? But fortunately for me, men in dresses, their punches don't hurt that bad. Um, but ultimately, these protestors ended up holding me through for ransom. Throughout the night, uh, demanding that if I wanted to make it home to see my family safely again, I had to pay them money. Um, all the while, you might be wondering, "Okay, well, where are the police?" Joe, it's San Francisco. The police are being held for ransom in the same room with me. I'm looking at the police like, "Pretty sure I'm being held against my will. Pretty sure we call that kidnapping. Isn't there something you can do to, like, alleviate what's going on here, to, to deescalate and get me home safely?" Um, "No, uh, actually, we can't." We, it's, it's, we're not allowed to be seen as anything other than an ally to that community. Uh, the same community who's on the other side of that door calling them racist pigs for protecting a white girl like me, um, not-

Joe Rogan 1:15:10 They're ... Say that, say that again. They're not allowed to be seen as anything other than an ally?

Riley Gaines 1:15:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:16 So, this is, like, a mandate from the police department, so anything that involves anyone who's trans, you, you have to automatically support regardless of whether or not that person's the aggressor?

Riley Gaines 1:15:26 Let me tell you, even-

Joe Rogan 1:15:28 Is that fair to say that?

Riley Gaines 1:15:29 Well, that's what was communicated to me. Even now, um, where there is an ample amount of video footage of this happening. There is audio evidence. There are eyewitness testimonies. Again, the police were in the room with me. There's footage that I requested that they never sent me, whether it was CCTV footage or their body cam footage. There's an ample amount of evidence to charge whoever is responsible, whether it's the students, whether it's the university, whether it's honestly the police department at this point. Um, they have come back now and said that, uh, the charges are alleged. There's nothing they can do. There's no evidence to prosecute or press charges against anyone. (laughs) I'm looking at this. Keep in mind, right, the dean of students shows up when I'm being held in this room for, for hours and hours, four hours, through the middle of the night in this room. Uh, and the dean of students shows up. He's negotiating with the students how, how much I owe each of them to get out. Uh, the price that, uh, I had heard was agreed upon through the side of the door was $10 each, which I'm mad about-

Joe Rogan 1:16:31 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:16:31 ...'cause I think I'm worth more than $10.

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 They all want 10 bucks?

Riley Gaines 1:16:35 Granted, there was a lot of them.

Joe Rogan 1:16:36 Oh my God.

Riley Gaines 1:16:37 But I'm like, "$10?"

Joe Rogan 1:16:37 But how funny is that? "Give us all $10. We're hungry."

Riley Gaines 1:16:40 (laughs) "We'll leave."

Joe Rogan 1:16:40 "We wanna go get Subway." (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:16:44 But anyways-

Joe Rogan 1:16:44 Fuck is wrong?

Riley Gaines 1:16:45 ... the university the next day sent, uh, out a university-wide email to their, I mean, u- I mean, staff, professors, students, everybody, and said, "We are so proud of our brave students for handling Riley Gaines in the manner that they did. We know how deeply traumatic her presence is on this campus, and so here are some counseling resources for you guys."

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Oh my God.

Riley Gaines 1:17:07 "You know, just know we see you. We stand with you. We see, hear," or, "We see you. We hear you. We love you."

Joe Rogan 1:17:13 Again.

Riley Gaines 1:17:13 Nowhere in there did they condemn violence against women, for that matter. Nowhere in there did they say, "We uphold our First Amendment and the freedom of speech." No, of course not.

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 The right to civil discourse.

Riley Gaines 1:17:26 No, forget it.

Joe Rogan 1:17:28 Phew.

Riley Gaines 1:17:29 So ...

Joe Rogan 1:17:30 It's so crazy.

Riley Gaines 1:17:31 And that's just the-

Joe Rogan 1:17:33 San Francisco has fallen.

Riley Gaines 1:17:34 Oh, beyond. I was in San Francisco-

Joe Rogan 1:17:37 I mean, that's, that's really, like, again, if I was gonna ruin a country, that's how I would do it. I would tell the children, "Everyone's amazing, and that assault you did, that was warranted, and I know how deeply traumatic-"

Riley Gaines 1:17:48 Congrats.

Joe Rogan 1:17:48 "... that must have been for you, so here's some counseling, 'cause you need counseling. You need to be able to talk about it, so f- further fuel your narcissism and get involved with someone who constantly wants to talk about you all day. Here's some counseling. Let's talk about you." "Great, I really need to focus on me." And then more-

Riley Gaines 1:18:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:05 (laughs) You know, talk more about you and how amazing you are, and then you go hit this lady who said that men shouldn't be able to compete with women. Fucking duh.

Riley Gaines 1:18:12 Yeah, and then there's nothing that can be done about it.

Joe Rogan 1:18:15 Nothing, zero.

Riley Gaines 1:18:16 So, which is why it's hard, like, for us, and when I say us, I, I really just mean sane people. I'm not making this conservative versus, you know, Republican versus Democrat type thing. Um, it makes it harder for us in this space to, to push back when, um, we have district courts or our, our Department of Justice that really is corrupted. It, it's incredibly, um, two-tiered.

Joe Rogan 1:18:42 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:18:42 Um, so-

Joe Rogan 1:18:43 This Fani Willis thing is awesome though.

Riley Gaines 1:18:45 Yeah, right? Isn't it?

Joe Rogan 1:18:46 I love it.

Riley Gaines 1:18:46 Isn't it just?

Joe Rogan 1:18:47 It's fun watching her get sassy-

Riley Gaines 1:18:50 Well, it's tell-

Joe Rogan 1:18:50 ... when she's getting questioned too. You know it-

Riley Gaines 1:18:51 And that's, and that's so telling, right?

Joe Rogan 1:18:54 (laughs)

Riley Gaines 1:18:54 When she starts freaking out and yelling and it's like, "Babe, if you just wanted to be this, or to have this guy be your, like, booty call or vice versa..."

Joe Rogan 1:19:04 Yeah, you're not supposed to hire him.

Riley Gaines 1:19:06 No.

Joe Rogan 1:19:06 What the fuck? (laughs) Like-

Riley Gaines 1:19:07 No.

Joe Rogan 1:19:07 How obvious is that? Also, you can't say that you fucking paid for everything in cash.

Riley Gaines 1:19:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19:14 Like, what? Imagine that, like, "This is what I'm gonna say."

Riley Gaines 1:19:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:17 "This is how I'm gonna get him. I'm gonna get him right here."

Riley Gaines 1:19:19 Yeah, that'll work.

Joe Rogan 1:19:19 "I'm gonna tell him, 'I paid it all in cash.' Sorry, no records."

Riley Gaines 1:19:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 "All in cash." "Where'd you get the cash?" "I had cash."

Riley Gaines 1:19:27 "I just had it."

Joe Rogan 1:19:27 Where'd you get the fucking cash? (laughs) You got $50,000 laying around? That's cool. Who does that?

Riley Gaines 1:19:32 But they do that because...... they know there's a chance of it working.

Joe Rogan 1:19:37 Not really.

Riley Gaines 1:19:38 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:19:38 I mean, I think she thought the system is more rigged than it is, because I think most people have never been exposed to national attention, and-

Riley Gaines 1:19:43 No.

Joe Rogan 1:19:43 ... you can speak to this.

Riley Gaines 1:19:44 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 They have no idea what the pressure like, that you've experienced.

Riley Gaines 1:19:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:48 Like, you've experienced some v- at a young age, a, of, as a person who had no desire to be famous other than be a great athlete, out of nowhere you h- get hit with this barrage of attention where you're on Fox News, and this and that, newspapers, and, and some people are labeling you in a horrible, most horrible way, and some people are, "We're proud that she's standing up for women in sports." And you got this conflict, and you're in the fucking center of it.

Riley Gaines 1:20:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:20:12 And you got crazy people who rush the stage and hit you, and the cops say, "We can't do anything that d- doesn't show us as an ally to that community." Like, that's not even America. Like, where are... That's La La Land. They're living in the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory. Those people are out of their fucking minds.

Riley Gaines 1:20:28 (laughs) The Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory sounds better than America. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20:30 It sounds way better. But they literally, they're literally out of their minds, like, and this is unsustainable. And-

Riley Gaines 1:20:35 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:20:36 ... at some point in time-

Riley Gaines 1:20:36 And we realize that because, honestly, truth and sanity, they, they always prevail.

Joe Rogan 1:20:41 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:20:41 It's just kind of a matter of time. Um...

Joe Rogan 1:20:44 (sniffs)

Riley Gaines 1:20:44 Unfortunately, it takes unfortunate circumstances, like the whole Leah Thomas thing, like the San Francisco State thing, like the things that continue to happen, it takes those-

Joe Rogan 1:20:55 Yeah.

Riley Gaines 1:20:55 ... to, to really see the harm and the severity and the likelihood that they continue at an exponential rate. Um, so again, I, I kind of look at what's going on or, you know, in particular, what happened to me as, as a lemons to lemonade thing.

Joe Rogan 1:21:12 Mm-hmm.

Riley Gaines 1:21:13 Right? You take something that should have never happened to anyone, um, but you do good with it. And that's certainly what I've been trying to do, um, over these past, again, two years. Um, and it has. There's been a lot of good stuff that's been done. We see a lot of the negative. We see a lot of the bad, and certainly, that's what's highlighted because that's what, that's what gets attention, that's what gets clicks, that's what gets likes. Um, but now, in just two short years, uh, 24 states have some sort of fairness in women's sports bill, when only, I think, three years ago, only one state did. Uh, so, so that's pretty incredible, lots of traction, lots of momentum. Like I said, four