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Joe Rogan Experience #2115 - Riley Gaines

Riley Gaines, a former competitive swimmer, champions the preservation of women's sports and single-sex spaces by advocating for the exclusion of biological male competitors. She leads The Riley Gaines Center at the Leadership Institute, serves as an Independent Women's Voice ambassador, and hosts the podcast "Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines" on OutKick.com www.rileygaines.com www.rileygainescenter.org

Joe RoganhostRiley Gainesguest
Mar 7, 20242h 29mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:0015:00

    (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. JR

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Hello.

    2. RG

      Hello.

    3. JR

      Very nice to meet you.

    4. RG

      Yes, and you!

    5. JR

      You've been on a wild little journey, huh?

    6. RG

      A journey that I-

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. RG

      ... certainly never expected, never wanted.

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. RG

      Still don't want. Uh, so yeah.

    11. JR

      Um, did you ever in your wildest dreams think that you would have to be a, an advocate for women's sports?

    12. RG

      For sanity. (laughs)

    13. JR

      For sanity, yeah. (laughs)

    14. RG

      No. No. Uh, never did I imagine that anyone would have to be in the position that I'm in, nevertheless me. Uh, so like you said, it really has been a wild almost two years now. Um, I graduated college, uh, set to be a dentist in dental school, uh, wanting to specialize in endodontics, which weirdly enough is root canals. Uh, so to say that this is a totally different path than I could have ever anticipated, um, doesn't do it justice.

    15. JR

      Yeah, it's a minor understatement. (laughs)

    16. RG

      Yeah, right? Exactly.

    17. JR

      So, eh, walk us through the beginnings of this for you. How... What, what was your first introduction to this insanity of biological men with gender dysphoria trying to compete with women?

    18. RG

      So, I'll take you through my kind of timeline here.

    19. JR

      Okay.

    20. RG

      Started swimming when I was four years old, right? I come from a family of athletes. Uh, so, uh, my dad was an NFL player. My mom, she played D1 softball. My oldest sister, she played softball. Uh, went to Ole Miss. My brother, he's in college playing football now. All my uncles won Superbowls and all the stuff, so come from a family of athletes. Started swimming when I was four. Graduated when I was 22, so you know, 18 years of my life, I really dedicated to my sport. Uh, impossible to put into words, you know this, the time and the hours and the dedication and the sacrifices that it takes to compete and ultimately be successful at the highest level, but of course, I was willing to do this. I knew I had to. Uh, right, you don't get to go to prom. You don't get to have sleepovers with your friends on Friday night because guess what? Practice at 6:00 AM on Saturday. Um, all of that to really say it's a lifelong journey. College rolls around. Um, truth be told, I, I really could've gone anywhere that I wanted to swim. Um, I'm absolutely biased, and the SEC is the best conference, so I knew that was for me. Uh, but went to University of Kentucky. Could not have been a better place for me. Um, freshman year, right, there was a lot of adjusting. There was a lot of, uh, time and hours. I thought I worked hard before. I was wrong. Uh, we were in the water six hours every single day, with three of those hours being before 8:00 AM, right? So you practice from 5:00 AM to 8:00 AM, go to class, come back, practice again from 1:30 to 4:30. Um, ate your dinner, iced your shoulders, went to bed, did it all again the next day. Uh, we swam about 15,000 yards every single day, which is equivalent to like 10-ish miles, so lots of adjusting. Sophomore year, still improving though, still getting better. Sophomore year rolls around. Uh, we're, you know, I, I really started having this breakout season, started doing some, some pretty great things, uh, really had finally developed like a sense of consistency I think. Uh, and about three days before we were supposed to leave for our national championships, which of course, you know, the NCAA, think about basketball, the NCAA tournament, uh, equivalent in swimming. We're ready to go, the meet you work all year, really all your life for. Uh, about three days before we were supposed to leave in March of 2020, um, our coaches pull us out of the water, sit us down, say, "Look, you know, if you live in the dorm rooms, pack your stuff up. You have to leave campus tonight." Of course, COVID had hit. Um, I didn't really know what this meant at the time. There was still a lot of uncertainty around this, uh, so I thought this meant we got a weekend off, we got to go home, we'd quickly return. Uh, but of course that was not a correct assumption, uh, because upon going back home, home is Tennessee for me, right? There were no pools open. There were no gyms open, nothing like that, and so every day, I swam miles aimlessly in the lake. I'd put on a wetsuit, and I'd jump in the boat dock, and I'd swim down by Johnny Cash's house, and I came back, and I did the same route every single day. Um, because again I, I n- knew that I had to if I wanted to continue this breakout season I was having my junior year int- or my sophomore year into my junior year. Um, right? And the amount of snakes that I swam by-

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. RG

      ... and like dead catfish that are floating on top of the water that-

    23. JR

      Ugh.

    24. RG

      ... like hit you in your face while you're swimming is not pleasant.

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. RG

      Um, but eventually, we were able to come back junior year. Uh, we had to deal with all the COVID theatrics, uh, which I'll be the first person to say that being a college athlete, really being a college student, I would argue being a human during the time of COVID was miserable to say the least. Um, but especially being an athlete, right, in terms of the mask mandates and the social distancing and the contact tracing and, and the mandatory vaccines, uh, which have you ever seen a swimmer in the pool wearing a mask?

    27. JR

      I have.

    28. RG

      You have?

    29. JR

      I have. I watch videos of it.

    30. RG

      Well, we essentially waterboarded ourselves-

  2. 15:0030:00

    How to accept that…

    1. RG

      told we fully had to treat this person as a man. Optics purposes here, to give you perspective of what this looked like from our eyes. Okay, finals of the 100 freestyle. Top eight women in the entire nation- "Women". "Women". Yeah, for those that don't have video- (laughs) "Women". Top eight "women" in the entire country and you've got a six foot four man in a women's swimsuit with a bulge next to a "woman" wearing only a Speedo with nothing covering her top. Your reaction was my reaction, because I'm sitting there watching this. I'm thinking to myself, "It's me. I'm the crazy one. It must be." (laughs) "This is the freaking Twilight Zone." Um- How does the audience react to this? Like when Lia Thomas gets on the block, when they're about to start a race, how does the audience react to this? Uh, as you can imagine, right, like there was a lot of silence. Uh, a lot of people didn't really know what to do, uh, what to say. There wasn't a lot of clapping. There was a lot of like protesters and like trans rights activists who were there, who were being loud- Yeah. ... and the posters and blah, blah, blah. Uh, lots of booing. Uh, Kellie-Jay Keen was there, who is a phenomenal women's rights activist out of England, and she was there, and, and she ... I'll never forget, I'm standing on the pool deck, and at this point in time, like, of course, me and all my teammates and my coaches, we all knew this was wrong. But it still ... I didn't know how to talk about it or what to say or what outlet to go to, and I remember hearing her from the stands, um, and she just said something that we were all thinking, and she yelled so loud, "He's a cheater." And I was like, "Oh, my gosh." I needed to hear that. Yeah. Um, so there was a lot of booing, uh, as you can imagine. Lots of silence. (exhales) And through this, so you have the loud, uh, trans rights protesters, and is there anyone countering that? Are there loud pro-women sports protesters? There were. Um, not as loud. If I'm gonna be honest, not as ugly, (laughs) which I think that gets a lot of media time, uh, when you have these men with beards and these big signs, uh, that certainly catches a lot of cameras. Um, so they were definitely there, uh, and looking back, like I said, like being able to see them, uh, it inspired me. It gave me courage, um, to be willing to kind of put my name and face to it. 'Cause I was scared at first, um, based on just kind of the silencing tactics that were used to keep us quiet, right? Like we were told, you know, "You'll never get a job if you speak out about this. You're, your employer is gonna look you up and see that you're a transphobe." And you don't want that, do you? You don't want everyone to think that you're transphobic or- Was this a conversation that someone actually had with you? Yeah. We, I mean, we had to go to training, Joe, to learn how...... again-

    2. JR

      How to accept that you're being cheated.

    3. RG

      A senior in college.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. RG

      21 years old.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. RG

      Um, they brought in an outside professional, again, air quotes, because what in the world? How can you be an outside professional, um, who sat us down and taught us how to use she/her pronouns?

    8. JR

      (laughs)

    9. RG

      Again, a senior in college. I'm like, "Am I really-"

    10. JR

      Taught you how, you, an actual she/her-

    11. RG

      An actual she/her.

    12. JR

      ... how do you use she/her pronouns (laughs) .

    13. RG

      We had to go through these interview questions. Uh, they'd throw a question at us. If we didn't answer their fake interview question to their standard, we had to go through it again.

    14. JR

      Oh, my God.

    15. RG

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      Indoctrination.

    17. RG

      Thomas's teammates, right, 16 of these girls plus their parents at the beginning of the season signed onto a letter expressing their discomfort in the locker room. Um, I kid you not, the university responded back with, and I have a screenshot of their response, "If you, as women, feel uncomfortable seeing male genitalia, here are some counseling resources that you should seek in an attempt to reeducate yourselves."

    18. JR

      Reeducate yourself that that's a, a sheenis.

    19. RG

      A sh- (laughs)

    20. JR

      It's not a penis.

    21. RG

      It's a sheenis.

    22. JR

      Oh.

    23. RG

      Queen is penis. (laughs)

    24. JR

      So, does Lia Thompson have sex with girls?

    25. RG

      What-

    26. JR

      Lia Thomas, rather.

    27. RG

      Yeah. At the time, again, this is what I know based off of what his teammates have told me a- and what really has been public knowledge based off what they post and different things, uh, at the time of that national championships, he was still dating women, and active with women.

    28. JR

      Sexually, so obviously has testosterone.

    29. RG

      Yes. But now, um, again, based off of social media, um, he is engaged to another man who claims to be a woman. So two men, but they call themselves lesbians, um, so who knows. But yes.

    30. JR

      But at, but at the time.

  3. 30:0045:00

    This is specifically said?…

    1. RG

      human. He's always been supportive of me. Um, not even necessarily my stance, but supportive of me, which means a lot. Uh, and my coach, Lars Jorgensen, who had coached there for 10 years at the time, um, amazing and supportive of me. But a lot of the kind of silencing and submission stuff came from the academic, academia side, or, or the compliance side of things. So my athletic side of my university was wonderful. Um-But yeah, the compliance side. Uh, I was even told specifically, "Riley, remember, uh, you signed a scholarship," and when you sign that scholarship, they went as far to say, "You gave away your rights to speak in your own personal capacity. Remember, you represent us. Remember whose name is across your chest and across your cap, because it's not your own. It's ours."

    2. JR

      This is specifically said?

    3. RG

      Yeah. They said, "We have already taken your stance for you."

    4. JR

      You signed away your rights to have your opinions on something that deeply affects your life's work-

    5. RG

      Right.

    6. JR

      ... for a university-

    7. RG

      Right.

    8. JR

      ... that's terrified of pushback.

    9. RG

      And, and understand this is not specific to just the University of Kentucky. This is why there are so few voices really speaking out, uh, in, in my position, right, like, young college-aged girls who have been impacted or affected by this. This is why so few are willing to take a stand. It's because it works. Um, look at what happened at, at Roanoke College in Virginia. It, it's the same story because it's always the same story, where this mediocre man who swims three years on the men's team decides his senior year he wants to join the women's team to become a record smasher. Same thing happened there. Uh, these girls, uh, they're getting in contact with me saying, "Hey, this boy on the boys team wants to join the women's team," um, but they told me that they got to vote on if they wanted him on the team or not. And so, uh, these girls, you know, they're talking to me. They're like, "Yeah, uh, there's 17 of us on the team, and all 17 of us are gonna say no." And I was like, "That's great." You know, we haven't seen really unity in this topic amongst a whole team, so that's wonderful. And so, um, they go into their meeting where they were told they got to anonymously vote. Uh, the coach walks in, uh, has the boy with him. He says, "Hey, uh, I know I told you the vote was gonna be anonymous, but it's actually gonna be by a show of hands, and I'm gonna let the boy here give a speech before." Uh, so the boy gets up. He gives this talk, and he says, "Hey, uh, if you don't vote yes, I will kill myself, and it will be your fault." So, as you can imagine, 13 of those 17 girls changed their vote to yes.

    10. JR

      Oh, wow.

    11. RG

      And it's because they were told they were going to be a murderer.

    12. JR

      And three of them were like, "Go ahead. Kill yourself." (laughs)

    13. RG

      (laughs) But honestly, like, think about that, though.

    14. JR

      That's a crazy thing to say.

    15. RG

      They're equating-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. RG

      ... advocating for fair play and privacy in areas of undressing with having blood on your hands.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. RG

      Same thing that Lia Thomas's school, UPenn, uh, told those girls, that if they do speak out and any harm whatsoever comes towards their- h- his way, right, whether it's through social media, through, I mean, emotional harm, physical harm, self-inflicted for that matter, they told these girls that they would solely be responsible. That would make them a potential murderer, and you don't want to be a potential murderer, do you? No, so I suggest you be kind, and I suggest you be inclusive.

    20. JR

      God, that is so insane.

    21. RG

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      It had to feel like a Twilight Zone.

    23. RG

      It did. I mean, this whole process, even, even looking back now, and maybe at the time, like, I didn't necessarily see it for exactly what it is. Having really removed myself from the situation now and looking back, it's like, whoa. How did they get us all to... Not that I ever conformed. Again, I never thought this was right. But, I mean, we went along with it.

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. RG

      Um, and how in the world did they manage to achieve that? And I think a lot of this truly, again, being a college athlete during the time of COVID, uh, I think that's when they learned they could control us. Because again, our universities told us, um, during that time, my junior year, uh, the vaccines were mandatory. You had to get the vaccine. Me, look, at this point I'd already had COVID, right? I had the natural... I had the antibodies which I thought was the best natural immunity.

    26. JR

      It is.

    27. RG

      I'm young. I'm healthy.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. RG

      I'm not anti-vax or anything like that, but I, I just didn't really see the point of me getting the COVID vaccine. And so, I said no. I said, "I'm not getting that." They said, "Riley, remember you're the team captain. Uh, you're going to be hurting your team if you don't get it. And, and you're supposed to be the leader, Riley." And so I really struggled with this, because I didn't want to be hurting my team. Before my own personal success, I cared about how my team did, how my teammates did. And so I really struggled with this. Uh, but finally I realized, you know, mandatory didn't actually mean law. It doesn't actually mean required, and so I stood my ground. But truthfully, I think that's the first time that I learned how to stand up for myself, and I think that incident a- and really the whole COVID thing helped me stand up for myself in my senior year when, again, the same tactics, the same emotional bl- blackmail and gaslighting really that they were using, uh, I think it helped me in my senior year too.

    30. JR

      Well, I'm sure it helped you see the world now that you're out in a different light, 'cause-

  4. 45:001:00:00

    Yeah. …

    1. RG

      you're all here from man and woman. And B- so, so being asked to deny that is as if we're being asked to deny that the sky is blue, um, or being told to say two plus two is five. And if anyone has read 1984 or looked... had a, a brief understanding of history, like you said, you will understand what it means when we start saying two plus two is five.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. RG

      Um, it's a pretty scary, chilling th- thought, really. Um...

    4. JR

      Well, if they can get you to give up one of the most basic things-

    5. RG

      There's no limits.

    6. JR

      Yes. Exactly.

    7. RG

      There's no limits.

    8. JR

      Exactly. And that... Look. And, and I, I agree with you that it did start during COVID, because it started during this exercise of control and mandating things-

    9. RG

      They realized.

    10. JR

      Yeah. And they didn't do it based on any data. They didn't do it... especially with young athletes. Especially with young athletes.

    11. RG

      No.

    12. JR

      What they did to do is do that so that if you can get compliance with absolutely everybody, so if you can get the people who don't need this medication at all to mandate it for children, for, for young, healthy athletes, for people that have zero fear of dying from COVID, and if you can force them into doing it, you can kind of force them to do a lot of things. If you can force them to, like, accept the most chaotic notion, like that we shouldn't have a border and just let people run through, and if it's terrorists, "Well, hey, I mean maybe they want a better life."

    13. RG

      Like, this... come on. Come on.

    14. JR

      Like, what? You n- you're not... you don't... you're not gonna vet anybody? You're gonna let them in? And now you're saying that some of them should be allowed to vote? And you're gonna give-

    15. RG

      Right.

    16. JR

      ... some of them money? And then New York City has this scam where they're giving them debit cards with, like, up to $10,000? And then, meanwhile, poorer people who live in New York City who are citizens of the United States, they're shit out of luck. Sorry.

    17. RG

      What about my husband, who's an immigrant? Uh, he came over from, uh, England, but did it the right way. Uh, we've been married for almost two years, and Joe, he still doesn't have his green card. Yet you have people-

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. RG

      ... walking over the border-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. RG

      ... and they obtain it with ease.

    22. JR

      Yes.

    23. RG

      It makes it harder for people like my husband and my family, where it's harder to travel, it's harder for, uh, job purposes when you don't have your documentation that you need. So you're right, it, it makes it harder on, uh, on not only Americans, but the people who want to do it the right way.

    24. JR

      Do you... what... do you think about it? Like, why are they doing that? Do you think they're doing it to import voters? Do you think they're doing it because some industries want to encourage cheap labor, that this can break unions? Because if you've got a bunch of people that are undocumented, it's legal to hire them and you could pay them less. Why would you need a union when these people are just happy with whatever you give them?

    25. RG

      Exactly. Here's what I think. I... Joe Biden has every... he, he has the power right now to secure the border. He has that power, uh, but he won't do it. So to me, what this looks like is the planned and controlled destruction of this nation. Um, reasons why? Uh, I don't know if it's to get voters. I don't know if it's to, you know, what really the purpose is. But make no mistake, this is planned and it's controlled, um, again, by the people leading this nation, which is a terrifying thought.

    26. JR

      Well, it makes sense. It sounds nuts, and if you had said this 20 years ago, I was like, "This bitch is out of her mind." Right? Just like, this, this is a-

    27. RG

      (laughs) Like, "What are we doing inviting Riley here?"

    28. JR

      ... c- c- c- controlled destruction of our United States. But now you look at it and you go, "Well, may- hold on." I mean, if they learned anything from CO- COVID, one of the things they learned is that...... during a period of destabilization, people are much more compliant. And COVID was a massive period of destabilization to the point where they put into place illogical laws that restricted people's ability to keep their businesses open while leaving gigantic businesses wide open. Walk through Target, no one gets sick there. But if you go to Mom and Pop's candle shop, everyone's gonna die. And none of that made any sense.

    29. RG

      No.

    30. JR

      None of it made any sense, and they got us to get through with that. If they can destabilize the country in the form of letting violence into the country, and, and then also but at the same time simultaneously cracking down on gun laws in America and imposing more-

  5. 1:00:001:15:00

    (laughs) Isn't that awesome?…

    1. JR

      was like, "Go fuck yourself."

    2. RG

      (laughs) Isn't that awesome?

    3. JR

      It was amazing.

    4. RG

      It was perfect.

    5. JR

      He goes, "If you're gonna blackmail me with money, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna do that, go fuck yourself."

    6. RG

      It's amazing.

    7. JR

      And then he goes, "Hi, Bob."

    8. RG

      And that's... (laughs)

    9. JR

      (laughs)

    10. RG

      That's hilarious. But honestly, like, that right there is what this nation, again, really this world is lacking, is strong leadership.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. RG

      Strong male leadership in particular. We don't see a lot of these, these men, right? We picture men as these, like, dominant, aggressive, assertive leaders who protect and provide. Our nation is failing because we don't have those male leaders. We don't have people who are, um, who have backbones and a moral compass. But Elon Musk has the perfect combination of a backbone and a moral compass, which is sad-

    13. JR

      And-

    14. RG

      ... when you think about it.

    15. JR

      ... also, he's smarter than everybody. (laughs)

    16. RG

      Boom.

    17. JR

      So he sees-

    18. RG

      And he's rich.

    19. JR

      He's, and he sees where all this is going. He's like, "You people are out of your fucking minds. Like-"

    20. RG

      Exactly.

    21. JR

      "... what are you doing?"

    22. RG

      Exactly.

    23. JR

      So he literally has to step in and buy a social media platform. And then upon doing so, they release all these emails to these journalists, like Michael Shellenberger or Matt Taibbi, and you, you find out through all this that they've been in contact with the FBI-

    24. RG

      This whole time.

    25. JR

      ... and the FBI has been telling them to delete accounts and get rid of posts, and...

    26. RG

      My account was deleted. Um...... prior, I guess, prior to the Elon Musk era. Um-

    27. JR

      What did you write that was the big offense?

    28. RG

      There are two sexes.

    29. JR

      (gasps)

    30. RG

      I know, God forbid, right?

  6. 1:15:001:22:07

    They're ... Say that,…

    1. RG

      to be seen as anything other than an ally to that community. Uh, the same community who's on the other side of that door calling them racist pigs for protecting a white girl like me, um, not-

    2. JR

      They're ... Say that, say that again. They're not allowed to be seen as anything other than an ally?

    3. RG

      Right.

    4. JR

      So, this is, like, a mandate from the police department, so anything that involves anyone who's trans, you, you have to automatically support regardless of whether or not that person's the aggressor?

    5. RG

      Let me tell you, even-

    6. JR

      Is that fair to say that?

    7. RG

      Well, that's what was communicated to me. Even now, um, where there is an ample amount of video footage of this happening. There is audio evidence. There are eyewitness testimonies. Again, the police were in the room with me. There's footage that I requested that they never sent me, whether it was CCTV footage or their body cam footage. There's an ample amount of evidence to charge whoever is responsible, whether it's the students, whether it's the university, whether it's honestly the police department at this point. Um, they have come back now and said that, uh, the charges are alleged. There's nothing they can do. There's no evidence to prosecute or press charges against anyone. (laughs) I'm looking at this. Keep in mind, right, the dean of students shows up when I'm being held in this room for, for hours and hours, four hours, through the middle of the night in this room. Uh, and the dean of students shows up. He's negotiating with the students how, how much I owe each of them to get out. Uh, the price that, uh, I had heard was agreed upon through the side of the door was $10 each, which I'm mad about-

    8. JR

      (laughs)

    9. RG

      ...'cause I think I'm worth more than $10.

    10. JR

      They all want 10 bucks?

    11. RG

      Granted, there was a lot of them.

    12. JR

      Oh my God.

    13. RG

      But I'm like, "$10?"

    14. JR

      But how funny is that? "Give us all $10. We're hungry."

    15. RG

      (laughs) "We'll leave."

    16. JR

      "We wanna go get Subway." (laughs)

    17. RG

      But anyways-

    18. JR

      Fuck is wrong?

    19. RG

      ... the university the next day sent, uh, out a university-wide email to their, I mean, u- I mean, staff, professors, students, everybody, and said, "We are so proud of our brave students for handling Riley Gaines in the manner that they did. We know how deeply traumatic her presence is on this campus, and so here are some counseling resources for you guys."

    20. JR

      Oh my God.

    21. RG

      "You know, just know we see you. We stand with you. We see, hear," or, "We see you. We hear you. We love you."

    22. JR

      Again.

    23. RG

      Nowhere in there did they condemn violence against women, for that matter. Nowhere in there did they say, "We uphold our First Amendment and the freedom of speech." No, of course not.

    24. JR

      The right to civil discourse.

    25. RG

      No, forget it.

    26. JR

      Phew.

    27. RG

      So ...

    28. JR

      It's so crazy.

    29. RG

      And that's just the-

    30. JR

      San Francisco has fallen.

Episode duration: 2:29:05

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