Joe Rogan Experience #2142 - Christopher Dunn

1. 0:00 – 1:42

   Christopher Dunn’s engineering origin story and move into aerospace

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right. Thanks for doing this, sir. I appreciate it.

   3. CDChristopher Dunn0:15

      Oh, you're welcome.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      I've enjoyed many of your videos online, so, uh, I'm fascinated by these theories that you have.

   5. CDChristopher Dunn0:21

      Oh.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      And, uh,-

   7. CDChristopher Dunn0:22

      Well, that's one.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      ... so I'm excited. I'm excited that you're here. Could you please, uh... first of all, could you just tell everybody what your background is? Like, what did, what did you start off doing professionally?

   9. CDChristopher Dunn0:33

      Um, I, I started as a, an apprentice in a engineering company in Manchester, England and, uh, and worked through the apprenticeship, received my journeyman papers. I worked for a couple more years in England, and then I was recruited by an aerospace company in America and, uh, immigrated to America.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       And, uh, what did you do for this aerospace company?

   11. CDChristopher Dunn1:02

       Well, I started out as a, a lathe turner. That was my specialty. So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       A what?

   13. CDChristopher Dunn1:06

       A lathe turner.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       A lathe turner?

   15. CDChristopher Dunn1:08

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       Yeah.

   17. CDChristopher Dunn1:09

       Right, so I was a lathe hand, right?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CDChristopher Dunn1:11

       So I, I operated, you know, horizontal lathes, vertical lathes. Uh, in England, you know, they had what they call them vertical boring mills.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CDChristopher Dunn1:23

       And, uh, in the, in the States you have to learn a different language, right? They have... the cultural differences-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CDChristopher Dunn1:29

       ... between... right? So you pick up different, uh, terminologies for things. Like they call, over here they call it a vertical turret lathe. In England, they called it a, a vertical boring mill.

2. 1:42 – 3:18

   The book that sparked it: “Does the Great Pyramid enshrine a lost science?”

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:42

      Mm. And so you're working with machines, and when did you come up with this theory about the pyramid?

   2. CDChristopher Dunn1:53

      Well, actually I'd been in the States for a while. It was, uh, I came over in 1969. And, uh, in 1977, uh, I picked up Peter Tompkins' book, Secrets of the Great Pyramid, and I started to examine, uh, that book. And one of the things that Tompkins... he asked a, a very significant question in that book, and he said, "Does the Great Pyramid enshrine a lost science?" You know, is the Great Pyramid a, uh, a product of that science? Does it reflect that science? And I took that question very seriously, and that question was in, in my mind as, as I read through the book. And then I started to explore, uh, some of the references that he provided in the bibliography, and one of them was the work of William Flinders Petrie. Uh, (clears throat) and, uh, he described, uh, lathes being used, uh, in ancient Egypt. He described very large coring drills, uh, up to 18 inches in diameter. Um, and he also, uh, claimed that they were, they were using circular saws.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:14

      When he's describing this, like, what, what kind of metal would they be using?

3. 3:18 – 6:42

   Reverse-engineering ancient tool marks like an engineer

   1. CDChristopher Dunn3:18

      Well, that's the thing. Um, the, the question (clears throat) really demands that you explore all methods, uh, that you a- are able to... when you satisfy y- the historical record, say the archeological record, and you say, "Okay, I'm gonna try this. Well, that's not gonna work. Uh, that won't work. So we'll try this. We'll, we'll keep, uh, improving our methods and tools until we arrive at a solution to the art... to explaining the artifact."

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:59

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CDChristopher Dunn3:59

      That, that was the... that's the important thing. That's basically, um, the demands on a manufacturing engineer, which I eventually became. So, you know, if, if a customer comes in and (clears throat) they bring a part, uh, to the company and says, "I want you to make one just like this," uh, what is the... what do we do? Well, we have to know what i- this is. And, uh, but... and to do that, you take measurements, uh, you determine materials, how it was manufactured, uh, you look for tool marks to see what processes may have been involved in it, uh, whether there were dyes, uh, (clears throat) whether there's machining marks in areas, um, you look at the welds. Uh, did they weld some parts? Did they braze other parts? And then, of course, the geometries. Um, and basically, that's your model. That's like saying, "Okay, I've got to make something just like this."

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:00

      Right, but when you're making some... like if you're looking at, say, uh, some of the stonework that was done in the pyramid where there's, uh, uh... not in the pyramid but in some of the quarries where you see these core drill holes-

   5. CDChristopher Dunn5:13

      Right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:14

      ... like, how would you reverse engineer that? Like, how would you figure out what could possibly do that?

   7. CDChristopher Dunn5:20

      Well, that's the interesting question. Uh, and, uh, (clears throat) it's a, uh, it's one that's been a huge debate going on about that, and it, it g- it really goes back to 1984. Uh, and I published an article, uh, called Advanced Machining in Ancient Egypt?, and it was published in Analog Science Fiction/Science Fact magazine in August of 1984.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      So you've been at this a long time.

   9. CDChristopher Dunn5:53

      It's... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:55

       (laughs)

   11. CDChristopher Dunn5:55

       Was that before you were born?

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       I was in high school.

   13. CDChristopher Dunn5:57

       (laughs) Yeah, you were, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:58

       Yeah, I was a junior in high school.

   15. CDChristopher Dunn5:59

       I wasn't. (laughs) So, um, it was, uh...... and, uh, you know, Stanley Schmidt, Dr. S- da- Stanley Schmidt, who's the editor of Analog, a very respected editor, selected it for publication. And we went through, uh, you know, the editorial processes, suggested changes and stuff like that. And, uh, and then it was... it went out.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:25

       (smacks lips) And so what did you... when you look at, like, the, the core, the drill holes, the, the vases are another, like, very fascinating and real gigantic mystery-

   17. CDChristopher Dunn6:36

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:36

       ... as to how those were constructed. And we'll talk about those as well.

   19. CDChristopher Dunn6:39

       You want-

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:39

       But you mean-

   21. CDChristopher Dunn6:39

       ... me to-

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:39

       Is that what it looks like? That's a, a model of one?

   23. CDChristopher Dunn6:41

       Yeah.

4. 6:42 – 10:35

   The Petrie core debate: spiral groove, feed rate, and the copper+sand claim

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:42

      Um, and, but the, the core holes itself, uh, had... We had a, a debate recently with, uh, Graham Hancock and Flint Dibble, and one of the things that Dibble had suggested was that they had done something with sand, and that that was how they were able to do this with copper and sand, and they were able to drill. Does that make sense to you?

   2. CDChristopher Dunn7:02

      Well, I mean, uh, I've heard that.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:05

      Mm-hmm.

   4. CDChristopher Dunn7:06

      That theory about how they were done, and I know that there has been work done to prove that that theory is cor- is the correct one. Uh, but central to explaining at the actual core, um, the... I- if, if you go back and you read Petrie, he described a spiral groove around a granite core and, uh, he said that it had a, like, a pitch of 100 thousandths per revolution of the drill. And so, that's what I was going on, uh, when I claimed, "Well, h- what kind of a process, uh, would you need to-"

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:52

      W- can I, can I stop you there?

   6. CDChristopher Dunn7:53

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:53

      When you say a pitch of 1,000th per-

   8. CDChristopher Dunn7:55

      Yeah. For every revolution of the drill-

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:58

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CDChristopher Dunn7:58

       ... it sinks into the granite 100 thousandths of an inch.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:02

       Okay. So-

   12. CDChristopher Dunn8:03

       All-

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:03

       ... because of that, you know that this thing has to be operating at a certain speed?

   14. CDChristopher Dunn8:09

       N- not necessarily rotational speed, but the penetration rate-

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:14

       So which each-

   16. CDChristopher Dunn8:15

       ... is the-

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:15

       With each rotation, it will go how long? How far?

   18. CDChristopher Dunn8:18

       100 thousandths of an inch, which is almost, uh, one-eighth of an inch.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:22

       So, that's pretty impressive when you're talking about solid granite, correct?

   20. CDChristopher Dunn8:27

       Yeah. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Um, and that probably wouldn't be possible with copper and sand?

   22. CDChristopher Dunn8:33

       No.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       It seems like-

   24. CDChristopher Dunn8:35

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       ... s- sand and copper just are not abrasive enough.

   26. CDChristopher Dunn8:38

       No, I'm, uh, I, uh, I contacted a company that specialized in drilling granite, and I asked them how many... how... what is the feed rate? That 100 thousandths of an inch would be the feed rate-

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Mm-hmm.

   28. CDChristopher Dunn8:55

       ... of the drill. What is the feed rate of your drills when you are drilling into granite? And, uh, I got a response f- from him, and he said, uh, "Generally, you know, uh, our drills, they're diamond. They, we, they rotate around 900 revolutions per minute, and the penetration rate is about two-tenths of an inch, uh, per revolution." So, two-tenths, uh, of an i- two ten-thousandths of an inch per revolution.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       Oh, two ten-thousandths?

   30. CDChristopher Dunn9:32

       Two ten-thousandths. I'm sorry. Yeah. I misspoke.
5. 10:35 – 18:54

   Examining Petrie Core #7 firsthand: the thread test and why scanning matters

   1. CDChristopher Dunn10:35

      And they have a- they have all revealed that the, the, uh, the groove is a spiral. In other words, it's a continuous spiral around the core. Uh, the more most recent examination of the, those cores, uh, was in 2018 by two aerospace engineers, Eric Wilson and, uh, Josh Geer, and they, um, uh, asked the Petrie Museum in London permission to examine the, uh, the cores in their collection, the Petrie Core Number Seven, which is the most famous core, and the one that has drawn (laughs) the most heated kind of debate about.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:25

      Can we see what that looks like? Jimmy, can you find that one?

   3. NANarrator11:27

      Petrie Core?

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      Petrie Core Number Seven.

   5. CDChristopher Dunn11:30

      It's on that, uh-

   6. NANarrator11:32

      Is it? Okay.

   7. CDChristopher Dunn11:34

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:35

      'Cause this, to me, uh, the, and the vases, obviously, and of course the construction of the pyramid itself-

   9. CDChristopher Dunn11:40

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:41

       ... um, the, there, uh, al- also the symmet- symmetry of the faces.

   11. CDChristopher Dunn11:44

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:45

       There's so many things that are so mind-blowing about w- whatever they did and how they did it. It's, it's, I mean-

   13. CDChristopher Dunn11:51

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:52

       ... f- forget about all the mysteries.

   15. CDChristopher Dunn11:54

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Just what we know in terms of... Okay, so these are, these are these two core samples?

   17. CDChristopher Dunn12:01

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:01

       These are these two cores?

   19. CDChristopher Dunn12:01

       They're not the... No, they're the same one, uh, and they're from Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt. And essentially, um, what happened was...... the, uh... There was a book written, I think it was in 1999. It was by, uh, uh, Chris Ogilvy Harold and Ian Lawson, and they... it's called Geese of the Truth. And so what they did is they had contacted, or they had associates that went into the Pieterjaer Museum and examined the core to see if it was actually a spiral. So they took photographs of it and they examined the sp- and they examined those photographs and they said, "No, they're horizontal." Now there's a big difference when you talk about a horizontal groove-

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:46

       Right.

   21. CDChristopher Dunn12:46

       ... uh, and (clears throat) a spiral groove. And so I was like, "Okay, uh, I suspend all assertions as far as the, the methods that I proposed for how it may have been done. Uh, I need to go and examine that item myself." And so I booked a flight to England and, uh, I, um... A, a friend of mine i- in Cambridge, uh, picked me up at the airport, Nick Annis, and we, uh, went to the Pieterjaer Museum, and I examined the core. The, uh... (clears throat) The method I used was to just wrap a simple cotton thread around it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       So you just followed the groove with the thread.

   23. CDChristopher Dunn13:33

       With the thread. But I was wearing, uh, um...

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:38

       Rubber gloves?

   25. CDChristopher Dunn13:39

       (laughs) Well, yes, I was wearing, uh, rubber gloves, but I was also wearing a, a visor with, uh, lenses in it that gave 10 times power.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       Oh, okay.

   27. CDChristopher Dunn13:49

       10 times power.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       So you could really see where the grooves are?

   29. CDChristopher Dunn13:51

       Yeah, yeah. You, you would find, you would find, uh, find those items in a- any tool ma- toolmaker's box, right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:57

       So if the lines were horizontal, you would go around in a circle, then you'd have to cross over the ridge to g- hit to the next circle.
6. 18:54 – 24:31

   Trying to reproduce the drilling: abrasives, corundum, and finish differences

   1. CDChristopher Dunn18:54

      Uh, (sighs) I ha- I actually, uh, created my own core just to, just to experiment, right? And I learned a lot doing it. I didn't use the same method as, uh, some of the other researchers that are out there that did it. Um, I, I had a copper tube, and I had corundum. Uh-

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:13

      What's corundum?

   3. CDChristopher Dunn19:14

      Oh, it's a, a very, very hard grit that you use to, uh, grind into hard material.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:22

      So, the copper tube would be flat at the bottom, and then you'd put the grit in. The grit would act as-

   5. CDChristopher Dunn19:27

      Right. Right.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:28

      Okay.

   7. CDChristopher Dunn19:28

      And so you'd rotate it-

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:29

      Right. Mm-hmm.

   9. CDChristopher Dunn19:30

      ... rotate it and rotate it. And, you know, I set up a jig, a, an, a tube, and, uh, just ground it, ground it, ground it, ground it, just so that I could see the, the results of, of that.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:43

       Right.

   11. CDChristopher Dunn19:43

       Um, for one thing, uh, they say that copper is, was the only metal that was available to the ancient Egyptians, but when it came to knocking out the core from the hole, uh, I tried copper and it wouldn't budge it. So, I had to (laughs) use a steel chisel.

   12. JRJoe Rogan20:02

       (laughs) Is it possible that they used something else, like heat?

   13. CDChristopher Dunn20:07

       You know, I, I'm actually leaning more towards that because of the, uh, the difference of, in the finish.

   14. JRJoe Rogan20:14

       Like if they poured boi- boiling water in it or something? Would that loosen things?

   15. CDChristopher Dunn20:18

       I don't think water would be it, but the, uh, if you compare-

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       The difference in the finish? I'm sorry. What did you mean by that?

   17. CDChristopher Dunn20:24

       Yeah. Yeah. That is, that I don't think has been discussed, discussed enough, or, uh, (clears throat) recognized to be important enough is that when you use an abrasive like sand or like emery or anything, uh, (clears throat) to grind out a hole or, or, or do whatever, you leave a, uh, sanded finish naturally.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:46

       Polished.

   19. CDChristopher Dunn20:47

       Not polished. No.

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:48

       Sanded.

   21. CDChristopher Dunn20:49

       Sanded.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:49

       Smoother? Is that what you mean?

   23. CDChristopher Dunn20:51

       It's, it could be smooth, but-

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:52

       Right.

   25. CDChristopher Dunn20:52

       ... it's definitely got a sanded finish.

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:55

       And what is the difference between a sanded finish and the finish of a diamond bit?

   27. CDChristopher Dunn20:59

       Uh, well, we don't, we don't know if they were using the diamond bit, but that's another thing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan21:02

       But, I mean, but th- that's what they do today, right?

   29. CDChristopher Dunn21:04

       That's what they do today.

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:05

       So, what is the difference between a sanded finish-
7. 24:31 – 30:34

   Precision stone vases: symmetry, handles, and the metrology problem

   1. CDChristopher Dunn24:31

      Yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:31

      ... there's the, the gr- the drill holes, which are just absolutely fascinating, and then this pottery we'll talk about before we get to the whole, uh, what you think-

   3. CDChristopher Dunn24:40

      It's-

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:40

      ... the pyramid is. So, the pottery, like these vases that you're seeing-

   5. CDChristopher Dunn24:44

      Uh, yeah, but-

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:44

      Uh, I shouldn't say pottery.

   7. CDChristopher Dunn24:45

      No, they're not pottery.

   8. JRJoe Rogan24:46

      I'm wrong. I'm wrong. Um, they're, they're actually solid carved.

   9. CDChristopher Dunn24:50

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan24:50

       And they're carved out of very hard stone, right? What is it they're carved out of?

   11. CDChristopher Dunn24:53

       Oh, granite, diorite, basalt, uh-

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:56

       Dia- granite, diorite. And, um-

   13. CDChristopher Dunn24:58

       Igneous rock. Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:59

       And the crazy thing is how well they're done, and if you show it... C- could you pick that thing up to show everybody?

   15. CDChristopher Dunn25:07

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:07

       The crazy thing is that it's not only perfectly symmetrical. Again, don't use the word perfect, right, because it's within-

   17. CDChristopher Dunn25:15

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:16

       ... what, what width of a human hair?

   19. CDChristopher Dunn25:17

       Well, you got (laughs) , uh-

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:19

       It's some crazy-

   21. CDChristopher Dunn25:21

       Yeah, yeah, like two and a half thousandths or something like that.

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       Two and a half thousandths of a human hair.

   23. CDChristopher Dunn25:24

       Have you ever used one of these?

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       Yes, I have.

   25. CDChristopher Dunn25:26

       All right, so measure, measure the lip there, right? See that?

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       Yes, sir.

   27. CDChristopher Dunn25:32

       Measure that and then-

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:33

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CDChristopher Dunn25:33

       ... turn it 90 degrees and measure it-

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       Okay.
8. 30:34 – 50:13

   Engineers vs Egyptology: evidence standards, precision where it matters, and criticism

   1. CDChristopher Dunn30:34

      Yeah, ther- ther- there seems, we seem to be, uh, stuck in a time warp where, uh, we're t- we're trying to come to terms...... with how the pyramids were built-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:46

      Want some coffee?

   3. CDChristopher Dunn30:46

      ... with how all these artifacts were built. And-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:50

      Want some of this? Here.

   5. CDChristopher Dunn30:51

      Oh, okay. That's a nice posh cup. Can I keep this?

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:55

      Yes, sir. It's all yours. Cheers.

   7. CDChristopher Dunn30:57

      Cheers, mate.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:57

      Thank you for being here.

   9. CDChristopher Dunn30:58

      All right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       So, continue.

   11. CDChristopher Dunn31:00

       Mm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       So we're lost in history.

   13. CDChristopher Dunn31:04

       So, yeah, I mean, so we have competing forces. We've got on one side you have, uh, practical engineers, practical scientists and they want to, they want to measure everything exactly. And regardless of what current theories, uh, prescribe how they were made, they want to explore other methods. However, on the other side, on the side of sci- uh, uh, engin- I mean, not engineers, archeologists or Egyptologists, uh, they, they believe that if you're examining an ancient artifact and you're a modern engineer, that you have to work under the guidance of an archeologist or an Egyptologist. Otherwise your work is not... would not be recognized.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:09

       That's weird.

   15. CDChristopher Dunn32:10

       And that's ha- and that is happening. I mean, that's a fact. And they admit it. Um, so that is, that is the situ- it's a... I think it's a systemic problem because that is certainly not a, uh, a way to, uh, do science.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:27

       Well, uh, and also they're not educated in those disciplines, supposedly.

   17. CDChristopher Dunn32:30

       Well, bingo, yes. I mean, absolutely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:32

       Yeah, so they wouldn't be able to understand what's required-

   19. CDChristopher Dunn32:35

       Right.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:35

       ... to do that. Now, what... the conventional explanation being some sort of copper and sand, if that's the conventional explanation, there's no evidence of any copper drills, correct?

   21. CDChristopher Dunn32:50

       Um, (laughs) if you go to the, um, Cairo Museum, they have a... I think there's a tube that they describe, a small tube, that they describe as a, uh-

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:00

       But nothing that can-

   23. CDChristopher Dunn33:02

       S- something like that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       ... carve those large holes-

   25. CDChristopher Dunn33:04

       But there's nothing-

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:04

       ... out of granite?

   27. CDChristopher Dunn33:04

       Right. Yeah. They, the- they're just going on the, uh, assumption that only copper e- existed during that period, and so that was the metal that was available to them, that was the metal that they used.

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:15

       The tubes that they have in the museum, are these tubes, uh, authentic tubes that were used on the site for something?

   29. CDChristopher Dunn33:23

       Um, I, uh, I would have to go back and, uh, refresh my memory on that because it was quite a while before I looked at them.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:30

       But the point is, like, they don't... y- you know, like, they have a replica of an ancient boat. They know there were boats-
9. 50:13 – 56:10

   Statue symmetry and 3D tolerances: why handwork explanations fall short

   1. JRJoe Rogan50:13

      So, when it comes to precision, like the, the precision of the faces, for instance-

   2. CDChristopher Dunn50:19

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan50:19

      ... um, and some of the sculptures-

   4. CDChristopher Dunn50:21

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan50:21

      ... what, what is the conventional explanation for how precise they are? Because these are massive faces that were supposedly carved by hand, but the accuracy on either side of the face is so phenomenal.

   6. CDChristopher Dunn50:38

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan50:39

      Like, bizarrely so. Like, how accurate?

   8. CDChristopher Dunn50:42

      Well, uh, e- exactly? Um, we don't know. But, I mean, as far as the, uh, the methods that I used, which are... is like, uh, 2D photography.

   9. JRJoe Rogan50:56

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CDChristopher Dunn50:57

       And then comparing features in, in the computer for symmetry, uh, you know, s- and some g- geometric features. Uh, nobody had done that before. And, and so I, I come along, you know, I say, "Wow, this is..." Actually, it k- it kinda hit me. It was in... my... the first time I went to Egypt and I was at Saqqara and I was looking down the length of the, uh, the, uh, statue of Ramses at the open-air museum there. And I said, "Well, those... the nostrils are extraordinarily, uh, symmetrical." I mean, they match, right? Most people's nostrils are different-

   11. JRJoe Rogan51:34

       Right.

   12. CDChristopher Dunn51:34

       ... if you look at them. And, and so the, uh... yeah, that's my photograph. That's my-

   13. JRJoe Rogan51:39

       So, there's the measurements-

   14. CDChristopher Dunn51:41

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan51:41

       ... on each side. They're exact.

   16. CDChristopher Dunn51:43

       Yeah, they're exact, as exact as I could make it. But, uh, you know, I, I, I qualify, um, the work that I did by saying the- these... this is not th- the final answer. There, there needs to be, uh, more sophisticated measurements taken, more accurate, uh, measurements taken. They need to be scanned, and, uh, and then they need to be analyzed, uh, where you have a precise scan, where you don't... you know, you're not trusting, uh, your eyes. You-

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:22

       Right.

   18. CDChristopher Dunn52:22

       ... you're actually trusting, you know, the tried-and-true development of, uh, uh, laser scanners and-

   19. JRJoe Rogan52:30

       But at the very least, the amount of symmetry that exists in these massive statues is spectacular.

   20. CDChristopher Dunn52:37

       It's mind-blowing. I, I, I can't... l- I can't even express. It is... it's absolutely mind-blowing. You... I mean, you look at the one with the, uh-

   21. JRJoe Rogan52:44

       How large are these that we're talking about?

   22. CDChristopher Dunn52:47

       Um, well, th- uh, the, the, the one that I, I measured was, uh... the first one was at the Luxor Museum and it's out- outside. I would say it's probably, what, four feet, something. Um...

   23. JRJoe Rogan53:04

       But there's very large ones too, right?

   24. CDChristopher Dunn53:06

       The... just the fa- like, the face and the headdress.

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:09

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CDChristopher Dunn53:09

       Uh, th- uh, there are larger ones, yes. The, uh... I think the one that the... tha- that was taken from the Ramesseum, uh, and is now in the British Museum was al- uh, uh, a large, uh, statue.

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:25

       How big was that?

   28. CDChristopher Dunn53:26

       Uh, I think... well, they say that the statues, uh... th- the statues at the Ramesseum weigh up to, what, (tapping fingers) 1,000 tons? I'm not sure, but they're really big, really big.

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:39

       1,000 tons. Look at that face.

   30. CDChristopher Dunn53:40

       Well, I, I won't... well, I wouldn't, wouldn't say, yeah, 1,000 tons, but I would say they were extremely heavy.
10. 56:10 – 1:04:41

    Core thesis: the Great Pyramid as a power plant / ‘electron harvester’ system

    1. JRJoe Rogan56:10

       Yeah, um, and then, then... so let's go to the pyramid itself. So you have a very fascinating hypothesis as to what the pyramid... or theory as to what the pyramid actually was.

    2. CDChristopher Dunn56:23

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan56:24

       And, um, it's based on where the supposed King's Chamber is, where those passages go through into it, and what do you think that thing was?

    4. CDChristopher Dunn56:38

       Uh, well, my first book pretty much describes what I thought it was, uh, in, uh, 1998, which was a power plant. Uh, the book is entitled The Giza Power Plant. Uh, my second book, uh, uh, has evolved, and, um, and I describe it as, uh, an electron harvester. So, you know, it's kind of like... uh, you could describe it as both, but... and, uh... (clears throat) and today, uh, when you do... all... you know, people in any... in any g- any decade, they think of a power plant and they see these huge chimneys-

    5. JRJoe Rogan57:16

       Mm-hmm.

    6. CDChristopher Dunn57:16

       ... with, you know, smoke stacks, and then-

    7. JRJoe Rogan57:18

       Or a new plant. Yeah.

    8. CDChristopher Dunn57:18

       Yeah, or a new plant, you know, or a power plant. Dirty, nasty, unclean.

    9. JRJoe Rogan57:23

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CDChristopher Dunn57:24

        Uh, but an electron harvester, clean, pollution-free, not a problem.

    11. JRJoe Rogan57:30

        I- has that been achieved conventionally? I mean, today? Uh, is there a thing called an electron harvester?

    12. CDChristopher Dunn57:39

        I, I think that actually, uh, (laughs) when you look at a generator, that's an electron harvester because we don't create electrons, we just harvest them. It's just how we do it. And, and so, you know, when i- when you say an, uh, electron harvester, you could, you could say that... you know, uh, uh, say a, a wind gen-... uh, you have a windmill-

    13. JRJoe Rogan58:03

        Mm-hmm.

    14. CDChristopher Dunn58:03

        ... and you have a generator inside it, and then you're collecting electrons off the commutator in a generator, and-

    15. JRJoe Rogan58:10

        And that's where the electricity comes from?

    16. CDChristopher Dunn58:12

        ... and that's where... that's your electricity.

    17. JRJoe Rogan58:14

        Right. Or hydroelectric, you'd use-

    18. CDChristopher Dunn58:15

        Right, but-

    19. JRJoe Rogan58:15

        ... the flow of the water.

    20. CDChristopher Dunn58:17

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan58:17

        Right.

    22. CDChristopher Dunn58:17

        You don't, you don't create the, like... you just, uh, release them.

    23. JRJoe Rogan58:21

        You harvest it from a process.

    24. CDChristopher Dunn58:22

        You harvest them fr-... through a process.

    25. JRJoe Rogan58:23

        And the process that you think they used in the Great Pyramid involved those shafts?

    26. CDChristopher Dunn58:30

        It involves a lot of things. Yeah, it's not just one single thing. It's a system, not m-... not a single thing. So when you look at-

    27. JRJoe Rogan58:37

        Can we show a photo of that? Do we have a photo of, uh, the pyramids and the shafts and where the King's Chamber is, where you... I know you've described this before.

    28. CDChristopher Dunn58:47

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan58:47

        Do you have a photo of-

    30. CDChristopher Dunn58:48

        I do. Uh, it's, uh... it's in the, uh...
11. 1:04:41 – 1:25:04

    Waveguides, hydrogen maser analogy, and the Queen’s Chamber ‘reaction’ concept

    1. CDChristopher Dunn1:04:41

       Um, i- in order to answer that question, uh, I had to look at the rest of the p- the pyramid, okay? What was it doing and, uh, how was it functioning? And so one of the key pieces of evidence, uh, that I used to propose a process that was going on is the northern shaft and the northern shaft, uh, uh, has dimensions and, and has an appearance, uh, that is similar to a wave guide that you would use for microwaves. And the dimensions of it, uh, would be s- would be approximate the wavelength of hydrogen.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

       So w- explain a wave guide. How does that work?

    3. CDChristopher Dunn1:05:36

       Yeah. It's l- it's like, uh, a wave guide is, uh, that, to transmit mi- microwaves, um, uh, electromagnetic energy, you know, in the microwave region and it, uh, it is, uh, passed more efficiently through a, like a tube or wave guide and that's what they use. I mean, that s- they are very complicated, uh, systems, you know.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:06:03

       And so how did this represent, in your mind, what a wave guide looks like?

    5. CDChristopher Dunn1:06:08

       Actually, you know, the, uh, the idea of a wave guide came to me from a, a guy, uh... we, we were ta- we were talking about the, the, the pyramids and I, I was sh- I carry a (laughs) I used to carry a, you know, schematic of the great pyramid in my back pocket and I'd meet an engineer and I'd go, "Hey, hey, come here." (laughs)

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:06:32

       (laughs)

    7. CDChristopher Dunn1:06:32

       I'd start, I'd start going through, "So what do you think about this?" Because, you know, I was li- I was looking for answers, suggestions-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:06:39

       Right.

    9. CDChristopher Dunn1:06:39

       ... brainstorming-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:06:39

        Right.

    11. CDChristopher Dunn1:06:39

        ... anything, right? And, and he's like, "So any... these, these, uh, these shafts right here," and he looks at it and then... he was into electronics, electronic engineering and he's like, "Hmm. They look like wave guides to me." And I thought, "Well, that's interesting. Uh, they look like wave guides. Uh, okay. What if they are wave guides? How do they functio- I mean, what, what were they used for?"

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:07:04

        Right.

    13. CDChristopher Dunn1:07:04

        "What were they using wave guides for in, uh, you know, ancient Egypt?" And, uh, and so I started to go down that rabbit hole, uh, and that led me to the Queen's Chamber and I'd say, "Okay, wave guides, uh, you need a medium, uh, you need wave, you know, microwaves to go through a wave guide. What, uh, what frequency of microwave was it, right?"... and you look at the dimensions and you come up, you come up with a match for hydrogen. Oh. So-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:07:33

        How do you do that? How do you come up with a match for hydrogen through the dimensions?

    15. CDChristopher Dunn1:07:37

        Yeah. Yeah. The, uh, the, the wavelength of hydrogen is, uh, 8.309 inches and the, uh, the width of the, the, the, uh, northern shaft is 8.4 inches. Um, a wave guide, uh, generally, uh, has the, the wavelength and then about half of the wavelength in height. So it's a rectangular shaft.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:08:11

        Just like all the shafts are.

    17. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:12

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:08:13

        Yeah.

    19. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:13

        And the... Well, the, yeah, the Queen's Chamber shaft is a little more square than the King's Chamber shaft.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:08:18

        So it had a different function?

    21. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:20

        Different function, yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:08:21

        So these wave guides, you believe, what, what are they connect collecting? W- and where are they getting it from?

    23. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:28

        Um... (laughs) Good question, Joe. (laughs) They, uh, they had, uh... We are bombarded with, uh, with microwaves every, every day. I mean, it's the, the signal from, they say, the Big Bang and, you know, there's a, a to- it comes from atomic, uh, hydrogen in, in, out in the universe, in outer space. But it-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:08:53

        So we're being bombarded, and you believe that these passages-

    25. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:57

        We're bombarding. Well-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:08:57

        ... were collecting this.

    27. CDChristopher Dunn1:08:59

        Yeah. So, anyway, so then you say, "Okay, uh, if we build a device and we say, 'Oh,' and we want to energize hydrogen, we, we bring it to a high energy state." And just like, you know, in a laser, uh, where you have, uh, microwave amplification through stimulated emission, right? So w- uh, so if we want to collect energy that is in a gaseous medium, say that is hydrogen medium, and the electrons in the hydrogen are pumped up to a high energy state and we wanna collect the energy in that, introduce a microwave signal, uh, direct it through that gas, and stimulate the emission of the energy, collect that energy and shoot it up the southern shaft. And so that was like, "Okay, that, that might work."

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:09:54

        So what kind of gas?

    29. CDChristopher Dunn1:09:55

        Hydrogen.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:09:56

        And so where are you getting the hydrogen from?
12. 1:25:04 – 1:39:01

    Subterranean chamber, Tesla-style vibration coupling, and ‘earthquake lights’ physics

    1. CDChristopher Dunn1:25:04

       W- oh, wha- while that is going on, the k- the Queen... the King's Chamber is, uh, vibrating, uh, in sympathy with the Earth. Um, and it has... it become... it is actually a coupled oscillator with the Earth.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:25:22

       How so? How does that work?

    3. CDChristopher Dunn1:25:24

       Well, a coupled oscillator is a device that's attached to a larger vibrating device, uh, and, uh, uh, and is in sympathy with-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:25:35

       And what is causing the King's Chamber to vibrate?

    5. CDChristopher Dunn1:25:38

       The, uh, the passage of vibration through the pyramid.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:25:43

       Of the Earth?

    7. CDChristopher Dunn1:25:46

       Of the Earth, which is assisted-... it, it's coupled by using what I call, uh, a Tesla device in the, in the, uh, subterranean chamber because you've got, you've got three, four ... you've got several systems in there, right? So if you've got the subterranean chamber, um, uh, that, that serves one function. You go up to the queen's chamber, that serves another function. You go up to the king's chamber, that serves another function. And in between you have the grand gallery, the ascending passage, got the descending passage. All of these things, uh, are there for a reason.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:26:26

       And so the subterranean chamber, w- how do you think that worked?

    9. CDChristopher Dunn1:26:30

       I, I'm, I would speculate that ... and actually if you, if you read, uh, Tesla and, and some of his writings, he suggests that, uh, with, uh, uh, very little energy you could, uh, uh, you could build a, uh, device that imparts, uh, energy or thrusts i- into a structure and if it is in harmony or, uh, uh, the exact frequency with that structure, it could bring the structure down just by an accumulation of, uh, of energy, of vibration. The amplitude would keep ... and if you kept pounding it and pounding it and pounding it, eventually it, it would all come down. The, uh ... I mean, that was, that's why they, uh, they instructed soldiers wh- when they're on the march to break step when they cross a bridge-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:27:26

        Mm.

    11. CDChristopher Dunn1:27:27

        ... because their footsteps might, uh, cause the bridge to oscillate-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:27:33

        Mm.

    13. CDChristopher Dunn1:27:34

        ... and de- uh, and destroy ... it's a very destructive force is, uh, is the, uh, this, uh, this f- you know, frequencies or-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:27:42

        Oscillating vibrations.

    15. CDChristopher Dunn1:27:43

        Oscillating vibrations, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:27:44

        So what would cau- what kind of device in the subterranean chamber would do that?

    17. CDChristopher Dunn1:27:52

        He built a device that delivered thrusts, uh, and powers. It was electromagnetic earthquake machine, it's called, right?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:28:01

        Mm-hmm.

    19. CDChristopher Dunn1:28:02

        Uh, you could do it electromechanical, you could do electrohydraulic or s- or, you know, just anything. But it ha- you have to be able to time the action and so, okay, you think of it like you've got, you've got a device, you've got a cylinder, you got a shaft coming out of it and (clears throat) you got a hammer or you got a, you know, copper pad or whatever at the end of it and, uh, you design it so that that shaft is going to push out at a particular frequency. So you go-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:28:39

        Like a piston.

    21. CDChristopher Dunn1:28:40

        ... boom, boom, boom-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:28:41

        Mm-hmm.

    23. CDChristopher Dunn1:28:42

        ... boom. And so you put it against a structure, that structure has a nat- natural frequency, right? All structures do. Uh, you might hit one with a fist and don't think it h- you know, it would resonate at all, but if you go the first, the first strike may impart, uh, enough energy to move something maybe a, a couple of angstroms, right?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:29:08

        Mm-hmm.

    25. CDChristopher Dunn1:29:09

        And so it's like very, very minute movement.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:29:13

        Right.

    27. CDChristopher Dunn1:29:13

        The next one will move it a little more. Then you just keep pounding it, just keep pounding it and as you pound it, the oscillations become bigger, the amplitude becomes bigger and if you keep doing it, you could bring it, bring the, uh, the whole thing down.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:29:30

        So the key is to do it at a rate that is able to utilize the hydrogen? Or utilize-

    29. CDChristopher Dunn1:29:39

        Well, at th- well, at this point hydrogen has nothing to do with it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:29:41

        Okay.

Episode duration: 2:40:13