EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,002 words- 0:00 – 5:09
Workout hang + sauna/cold plunge: chasing the “after” feeling
- NANarrator
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- NANarrator
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Cheers. Here we go, my friend.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is the second time-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I feel great.
- JRJoe Rogan
... we ever worked out together.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I know. I feel great.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was awesome, right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
That was great. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a great way to get the day started.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It was perfect, actually.
- JRJoe Rogan
We do these, uh, the, the comedian, uh, boot camps. So, you, we got, did it today, we did it with Hasan and Derek and Shane, Shane Gillis. And, and we have fun. You know?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you get the workout in and you talk a lot of shit and you get silly.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) That's the best part.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's really fun. It's just, like, real silly.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, and we have a good time.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So...
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I, uh, yeah. Thanks for the invite. It was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my pleasure.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It was... I've been on the road for, I don't know, for weeks. And so, you know, if you're lucky, you get a, a decent hotel gym.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
But you gotta be really creative.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Uh, most of them, the best they'll have are dumbbells and, you know, that's it. Uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
I just realized, you're the second celebrity to do that with us, and the second Hawaiian, 'cause The Rock did it.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
The Rock. Samoan.
- 5:09 – 15:40
DEA reschedules marijuana + why hemp stigma still blocks a major industry
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Oh, and by the way, congratulations to the marijuana enjoyers of the world 'cause the DEA officially rescheduled marijuana to, they're gonna reschedule it to Schedule III.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which still, it should, it shouldn't be illegal.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
We know that.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I agree.
- JRJoe Rogan
But baby steps.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, the fact that it's making progress at all just shows that-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the, you know, the collective will of the people is being heard, at least somewhat.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
There was... I'm trying to remember who it was. Uh, somebody was telling me that, like, the decriminalization crew, they gave...... an American flag made out of hemp to a member of Congress to fly above the Capitol. 'Cause it's a normal thing. Like, you know, I, I would get people when I was in Congress calling and saying, "Hey, it's, uh, you know, my friend is retiring from the military from 30 years, can you fly a flag in honor of him or her?" And so you get a little certificate with it, and, and this, like, there are many flags that go up and down every day that are given as gifts to people. Uh, so someone did it with a flag, American flag made out of hemp. And apparently, it caused major problems within the DEA and within the administration, saying, "How dare you? How could anyone allow this to happen?" It made zero sense whatsoever. But it just pointed to the, the backwards mindset and thinking and the sensitivity within the DEA, uh, and the government around cannabis, hemp, marijuana.
- JRJoe Rogan
It just seems a massive lack of education too.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not as simple as, you know, your thinking of it in, in connection to marijuana. It's, hemp is a commodity that has existed forever. In fact, canvas that writers paint on, or that painters, artists paint on, that, the original word canvas came from cannabis.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I didn't know that.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was made out of hemp.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Interesting.
- JRJoe Rogan
They made hemp paper as a better paper. They, they made hemp clothing.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's far superior to cotton. The only reason why they d- this is where it gets weird. It ha- there's, there's, there's a bunch of things that took place that took hemp away from being a common source of paper and clothing. But one of them was making slavery illegal.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because before they came out with the decorticator, what the primary way they used, uh, to process hemp fiber was really painstaking, 'cause it's a, it's an incredible plant.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a very light plant, but it's insanely durable. Like, hemp clothing is so much more dur- like I have a hemp jujitsu gi from Datsura.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh, wow. Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that sucker never rips.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
My cotton gis, they're good for like, you know, you wear 'em for like six months, a year, they're gonna, the shit starts going. Even like really strong, stable cotton threads start going. These hemp gis are like, they're invincible.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mmm.
- 15:40 – 21:51
How cannabis became illegal: Hearst, Anslinger, propaganda, and ‘Reefer Madness’
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the wildest thing is how it happened in the first place. The wildest thing how it happened in the first place, is 'cause it was all William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger. And so what happened was, William Randolph Hearst, who owned Hearst Publications, he also owned, um, not just newspapers, but he owned paper mills and he owned forests. So he had all these forests that they would cut down the wood and use it to make paper. Well, he ... If, if they were gonna transfer over to hemp, this is gonna be very costly.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the cover of Popular Science magazine, in, I think it was 193- Find, find out what year that cover was. It says, "Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop," because they came up with a new machine, and it was called a decorticator. And this new device was a device that allows you to effectively process the hemp fiber in a much quicker and easier way. So it's this machine, it grinds it up. And so once they do this, they go, "Oh, boy, we figured out ... We ..." They've solved this problem of hemp, where it's really d- It's very durable, but it's really difficult to break down to the actual fibers.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So 1938.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh, wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
So this comes out in 1938, "Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop." And so it's the cover of Popular Science magazine. Do you see ... Do you s- Do they have the cover so you could see what it says?
- NANarrator
Uh, there's an article that actually came out-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, just an article?
- NANarrator
... today about this somewhere, about hemp.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh, wow.
- NANarrator
Talk about the article.
- JRJoe Rogan
Popular Mechanics magazine. I'm sorry. So ... So the article is from 1938. And so when they come out with this, they talk about this, uh, new invention. See if you could find a photo of the decorticator, 'cause it's like this grindy kind of thing. Is that what it looks like?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop." So once they had this ability to really quickly turn it into fibers, then big industry starts getting involved. And, um, what, what they start doing is they start making these stories and putting them in the newspaper about Mexicans and Black people smoking this new drug called marijuana and raping white women.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And marijuana was not-... pot. Marijuana was, uh, a wild Mexican tobacco.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was a slang for a wild Mexican tobacco.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
It had nothing to do with marijuana. So they start attaching this name to something and calling it a drug because they knew that cannabis was so ubiquitous.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, and hemp as a, as a commodity was everybody knew it, what, what it was good for.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so they had to come up with some sneaky way to get it through. So they come up with the word marijuana. So marijuana was not a term for pot. It wasn't a term for cannabis. It was a term for this wild Mexican tobacco.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so when they started making marijuana illegal, Congress didn't even understand that it was the same thing as hemp. And so they had to come up with some sort of a tax stamp that you can have in order to grow hemp while marijuana is illegal.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then this is like right after prohibition, right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- 21:51 – 25:22
Cannabis harms, CBD benefits, and the knock-on effects of federal prohibition
- JRJoe Rogan
And what's, what's also important about it is, the problem with something like that is that now you don't trust the media, right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, if you don't trust the media and then you go out and try it yourself, you don't have real accurate information 'cause now there's like this... There, there's these narratives that have been created that aren't based on truth. And so you don't know where to go.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't know what's real and what's not. And then you have people that tell you it's harmless, and then you have people tell you, "Well..." And there's people like me, they go, "Nah."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Because I'm like, "It's not harmless."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not, marijuana is not a harmless thing.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You definitely shouldn't take it when you're young. And here's what's really important. Some people can't handle it for whatever reason, and it's most likely some biological thing. Just like some people are allergic to aspirin or-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... or whatever. Like there's some people, they don't mix well with that stuff. And there's a real connection between schizophrenia with some people that maybe are percep- susceptible to schizophrenia.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Alex Berenson wrote a, a great book about it called Tell Your Children.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very interesting because there's real instances of people taking high doses and getting schizophrenic.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But if we, if we're being lied to about it, y- no one knows what... Who did-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who's gonna give me the information?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Where's the truth coming out? Because they're... If one group is saying that this is a schedule one chemical and it's very dangerous and then all your friends are just smoking weed and going to the movies, you're like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... well can... Clearly this is not that dangerous.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like jujitsu people and surfers, they're all getting high. Like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... what's real here?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- 25:22 – 29:47
Cartel grow-ops and the fentanyl crisis: why ‘just keep it illegal’ fails
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and the problem also is by having some states have it legal and some states have it illegal, then you still open up a market for illegal sales in the country. And what happens is the cartel comes in-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they start growing it on public lands.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I had a guy on the podcast, his name is John Norris, and he started off as a game warden. So he started off as a guy who's gonna check fishing licenses and stuff. And one day, they find that a stream has been diverted, and they're trying to figure out why, why this stream-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... has dried up. So they make their way up the stream, and they find these- this irrigation system that's set up for an illegal marijuana grow-op in the middle of public land-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in California. So then they develop a tactical team. So it goes from being him being a game warden, now they have dogs and bulletproof vests, they're getting in shootouts with the cartel.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Jeez.
- JRJoe Rogan
So they're ex- 'Cause they're making millions of dollars, but they're using really dangerous chemicals and pesticides that are illegal to use on crops in America.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're just using that shit up there. So who knows what the fuck you're getting if you're living in one of these states that has illegal pot.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because when California changed the law and made marijuana legal recreationally, they made growing marijuana without a license... It's just a misdemeanor. So these guys that are just doing it now from the cartel-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... they're like, "This is... You have nothing to risk."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
"You're just... It's a misdemeanor, and we can make millions and millions of dollars."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so they have these guys up there. They have, like, you know, rosaries and all this, like, photos of Jesus and shit they find in campgrounds. And they- they pay these guys to go out there, grow this stuff, and then bring it out.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Geez.
- JRJoe Rogan
Harvest it and bring it out.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're selling it. He said that, I think, believe John said at the time of our podcast that 90% of all the marijuana that's being sold in the states where it's illegal is all from these grow-op's, a lot of them in California-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... on public land by the cartels.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
90%.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- 29:47 – 35:55
San Diego border reporting + homelessness: ‘How do you help someone who won’t be helped?’
- TGTulsi Gabbard
I was in, uh, San Diego a few weeks ago.We went out, um, kind of to- to film a little mini-documentary about what's happening at the border in San Diego. There's a lot of attention being put on, you know, Texas and Arizona, but California's border is a whole different dynamic, both because they've got, you know, a long stretch of border where you're- you're crossing in and you're going straight to mountains, you know, big open spaces. But then you've got the very dense urban, uh, corridor, I suppose, uh, where people, whether they're coming in through the water or they're just coming across the border, where they can disappear into neighborhoods very quickly. But, uh, what- what was- there- there's a few things that were very eye-opening and interesting. Number one is, we- we know that the borders are open because we know how many people are coming through. The numbers that are being reported, I think, is close to nine million now, just over the course of the Biden administration. What I saw there were, um, people coming in. And we were just driving around and we saw groups of people gathering in different locations from all over the world, illegal immigrants, and, uh, seemingly happy and going to the place where they were told to go or they knew the Border Patrol was gonna pick them up. And knowing that they will get processed, claim asylum, and most of them will be out with a plane ticket anywhere in the country, uh, within 24 hours. And so-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... it- it's- it's- I, you know, and I've talked with some of the Border Patrol agents and- and, you know, they're- they're not allowed to say anything on the record, but just the frustration that's being felt where they can't even do their job.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is the justification for the plane ticket?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Uh, they don't have the- they don't have the ability to house people where they are.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, they're just like-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"Where do you wanna go?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"Utah? Okay, here you go."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"Where do you wanna go? New York City?" And- and I went and I talked to a lot of them. I sat down and talked with people from Brazil, from Egypt, from, uh, Colombia, from Venezuela, from, um, you know, different parts of Eastern Europe, people from all over the world coming here with- with the known plan in this well-oiled machine, uh, and- and- and I'm- I'm talking about this 'cause it is very directed to the cartel, dir- directly connected to the cartels who are being enabled in their multi-billion dollar human trafficking operation across the border by our policies, by the Biden administration's policies at the border, which is connected to their ability to move fentanyl and other drugs across the border. And so we spent a couple of days at the border there, and then, uh, went into the city of San Diego and went and started talking to some homeless people, and- and talking to people who were clearly, clearly, um, extremely high on multiple drugs. And we're walking around with one of the community relations police officers there. He was just plainclothes. He's walking around and keeping an eye on what's going on there. But we talked to this one guy who had a crack pipe in his hand. Uh, he seemed barely conscious, but we had a- he- he was engaging in a long conversation with us. And, um, you know, I was asking him about fentanyl. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I take fentanyl sometimes. Uh, but I usually take it at night to help me go to sleep." And I was like, "Aren't you afraid of not waking up?" Like, he's like, "Yeah, I've had a lot of friends who've died from fentanyl, but I know how much to take and-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(inhales deeply)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
"... I know how to manage it. And have you? Have you?" He's like, "Yeah, I almost died twice and I was revived." Uh, but- and then asking him, uh, the police officer asked him, "What would it take to get you off the street? What would it take to get you to a place where you can get some help and- and to get off drugs?" And he said, this 27-year-old guy, "Nothing. Nothing." Um, he said, "There's too many rules in the places where I could go and stay, and I wanna live my life this way." It was so heartbreaking to see him, you know? His eyes were barely open and- and, um, clearly in an altered state of mind. But even in that state, in this conversation, how do you- how do you help someone who doesn't wanna be helped?
- JRJoe Rogan
You can't. It's the problem. I mean, you could talk to them. You could hope that they could get some information from you that shifts the way they think about things, but the addiction gets so deep.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And there's this, uh, thing that some addicts will say, is that, um, "I feel better when I'm high."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That, "It's the only time I feel good. It's the only thing good that I have in my life, is when I get high. And if you take that away, my life is terrible." And if you've been an addict for a long time, the longer you're an addict, in fact, the more that's true.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? Because the more your life is a wreck-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then you're forced to deal with it when you come off and you realize, like, "Oh my god, I'm 45 years old and I'm a heroin addict." Like, "What the fuck? How is this?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then now you're sober and your life is, uh, in shambles.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you try to, like, figure out, "How did you go so wrong?" And then the only thing that made you feel good was heroin. You wanna go back.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You wanna go back to that. And it's also people, like, get really scared of success.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Even success in staying sober, they get s- scared of doing things well and they seek comfort in failure, 'cause they've- they've become accustomed to failure. So if they- the pressure of doing well and of, like, staying sober and, like, keeping healthy, like, it's almost too much.
- 35:55 – 38:59
Social media, AI, and mental health: comparison traps and synthetic relationships
- JRJoe Rogan
And-... a lot of these things, I, I think, uh, a lot of the mental issues are accentuated by social media.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think, um, that they're, they exacerbate them badly.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And a lot of... I think there's a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill people that are just killing themselves by being online all the time.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. I believe it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I really do. I think it's terrible for you.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's so easy to get sucked into it.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so easy. And people that are, like, arguing with people constantly online.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, my God, you, what a w- terrible waste of time.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. When, when that becomes your reality-
- JRJoe Rogan
Which-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... dealing with people and perceptions and, you know, measuring yourself-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... against whatever you're seeing and, and all of it, and, and you, you slip out of the real world in building real relationships and friendships and having real conversations.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The, the, the comparing, too. The comparing-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is something that you and I didn't have to grow up with.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And we're very, very fortunate, because especially, um, young girls today, and Jonathan Haidt's work on this is, uh, been really interesting. His book, uh, The Coddling of the American Mind is a great one, and it's all about what you could see, like, exactly when social media is invented, all this self-harm and all the suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation, and suicide all goes up for girls.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's comparing themselves.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Doesn't surprise me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's s- such a bizarre thing that a person can get super-duper famous just dancing-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... on an app that goes online, and then they make millions of dollars-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- 38:59 – 46:45
TikTok ban opposition + FISA 702 expansion: civil liberties vs ‘national security’ framing
- JRJoe Rogan
And so it... Like, you're seeing these Israel versus Palestine things on school campuses, I'm like, "My God." Which brings me to... This is an interesting thought. Like, what are your, what's your opinion on this potential TikTok ban?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Uh, I oppose it. I oppose it on the grounds of, of free speech and civil liberties. You know, this is, uh, speaking of fomenting fear, this is one of those, um, pieces of legislation that's, you know, if, if you just read the talking points for those who support it, and it's supported by many people in Congress on both sides of the aisle, um, y- you think like, "Oh, my gosh, we've got a national security risk, and you've got concern for our kids and all of this other stuff." But when you actually read the language and understand the implications of what this legislation does, it's not really about TikTok at all. It's about government being able to choose, uh, what platforms are acceptable and what are not, and what we, as Americans, are able to either get information from or put information out. And then you look at, okay, well, if they're giving themselves that authority, how will it then be enforced? Then you get into the civil liberties concern of the Fourth Amendment of government overreach and trying to figure out, okay, well, now I'm gonna have to look into your phone and figure out if you're the guy who's using the VPN to illegally download this app. Then you're looking at, uh, you know, the, the, the designation is that if you have, uh, 20% or more, uh, ownership stake or stake in a business that has been designated, um, by our government to be illegal because of its association with a, a, a foreign adversary, there are a few countries listed there, but the President would have the power to designate any other country a foreign adversary without any kind of, you know... Congress wouldn't have to take action. It's, it's a, it's a unilateral move. Uh, you are also implicated if you are someone who the government determines to be influenced by or connected with one of these countries that is a foreign adversary. And so, you know, Elon Musk has talked about this, it is not outside of the realm of, of the, the, um, n- not only possible, but the probable, that if they wanted to say, "Okay, well, you know, Elon Musk is doing business with this country that we don't like, and, oh, he also owns this platform called X, X should be shut down because of this association." Uh, the, the r- I think Ron Paul said it best when he said that this legislation is the most, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "It's the most egregious violation of civil liberty since the Patriot Act was passed in the wake of 9/11." And when you look at the arguments that are being made around both of those pushes, they are, they are very eerily similar in invoking national security concerns. And the language and the way that's written...... is intentionally vague that puts far more power into the hands of the Executive Branch, just like the Patriot Act did, to single-handedly say, "Well, this is a good guy and this is a bad guy." And that has a direct implication on Americans.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, w- wasn't there another recent thing that passed that allows more observation of people through cell phones?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes. Yes. And then s- both of these things were actually wrapped up into that, that same bill that just passed through.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was the same bill?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
They lumped together a whole bunch of different things. They were, they were separate previously. But, uh, the thing that the TikTok ban was lumped together with was the bill that would reinstate or extend the, um, FISA authorities, the Foreign Intelligence Security Act authorities, for another two years. Um, section 702 of FISA gives our government the authority to, um, surveil foreign actors, essentially, to try to identify terrorist threats. But part of that is they have the ability to capture all of the conversations. If you talk to somebody in another country that they're interested in, they can then go in and capture all of your information as an American citizen, and they can do this without a warrant. This has been in place for quite some time, uh, but this legislation that was just passed recently expanded those authorities so they can go and actually look at, like, your, your WiFi, uh, history. If you're connected to WiFi, they can look at everything that you did connected to that WiFi signal and, and in some other ways. It's, it's ... O- it took an already bad problem and made it many, many times worse. And again, they're just saying, "Well, it's for national security." The problem here is-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the, that's the thing they always say though.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
They, that's the thing they always say. And, and it's like ... You know, the, the ... I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said if, if, you know, um, "If you are choosing security over liberty, you will neither be secure nor will you have liberty." Um, that's not an actual quote, but th- that's basically-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... the point here, and that's the false choice that so many of these politicians are f- are forcing on the American people, is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... you can either be less free and more safe, or you can be more free and, oh, by the way, you're gonna invite more terrorist attacks or more national security, uh, incursions on our country. And it's just, it's just BS. It is BS.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's also very un-American.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
And here's the problem with government overreach. The government is just people.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the problem. Like, you know, if, if you thought of them as something other than a three-letter name, like DEA, CIA, NSA, just a bunch of people-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you would go, "Well, why is this like the DEA? Why is this 10,000 people telling all these other people what to do?" That sounds crazy.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's way more of them than there are of us. If we was just in this room, and, uh, Jamie turns out to be the cop and, uh, he says, "Hey, uh, I'm gonna put you two in prison because, uh, I heard you like hemp."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) You're like, we'd be like, "Jamie, fuck off."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy. But if, if it's a government agency with a three-letter name, you're like, "Oh, well, this is the government. It's the gover-"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But the government is just human beings.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And there's just a natural inclination that people in power have is to try to gain more power.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- 46:45 – 57:03
Politicization of federal power: Jan 6 net-widening, FBI trust, and informant-driven plots
- TGTulsi Gabbard
When you, when you take this job, while also ensuring, "Okay, well, we can do both and we must do both." We can be safe and secure and also be able to live free without worrying about every time you pick up your phone or you make a phone call wondering if the government is surveilling us. And then you, you add onto that what's happening now where, you know, like January 6th, for example, I was working out in the gym, uh, Marine Corps gym in Hawaii down the street from our house, bumped into a guy who I met ... Uh, it's a long story, but I met him when, uh, The Rock's stunt double was getting his traditional Samoan tattoo. And it's a whole ceremony. It was a seven-day thing. And so this other guy is Samoan. We met and became friends. So I saw him in the gym and he's with his 14-year-old son. "How's it going," this and that. And he's like, "Oh, the FBI just came to my house out in Laie, uh, small rural community on the island of Oahu." I was like, "What's going on?" He's like, "Yeah, they came and knocked on my door because," he said, "I took my son to go and witness democracy." So they were part of those thousands of people who were out there on the lawn of the Capitol. And they, they didn't arrest him, they didn't charge him with anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
But, but how is it, how is it that, you know, years later, years later, they go and find this guy and his family in a rural Mormon community in Laie, in Hawaii, they're capturing all of the data of people whose, whose cell phones were pinging within the v- that vicinity-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... uh, during that period of time, not only on January 6? And they are continuing to widen that net, looking at flight records and who bought tickets and who booked hotels and, and all of this stuff. For what?You're gonna go, the FBI's gonna go and investigate people who showed up there on the lawn, on the Capitol? Uh, you look at what they're... And this is, this is my thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Scare tactics.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It's- it's, it is absolutely scare tactics. So, when we look at the power of the government and how they're now turning on the American people, for political reasons, we can see where even the best of intentions with some of these pieces of legislation can lead to the very worst places. What to speak of the fact that we have limited resource and limited people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
What are they not investigating? You talked about the DEA. What, uh, what about the FBI and all these millions of people who are coming across our border? Uh, are- are they tracking who they are? No, they're not. Are they tracking where they're going? No, they're not. We have no idea. People coming from the Middle East and Asia and Eastern Europe and Venezuela, gang members. Like, all of this stuff is happening right before our very eyes, and they're going and knocking on my friend's door in Laitier because he brought his 14-year-old son to Washington, DC that week?
- JRJoe Rogan
And here's the question. Um, was the FBI there? How many w- how many people were there? And how come they don't have to answer that?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
They don't say.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Why not be transparent?
- JRJoe Rogan
Also, they should be there. Like, uh, uh, the government should be there in case some shit goes sideways.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? That's, um, so I'm sure they're there. But are some of the agents not good? Just like some dentists suck.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Are some of the agents not good? And are some of the agents encouraging people to go in? Because that could be true too, because if we look at what happened with the Governor of, uh, Michigan.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it Michigan?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or Minnesota?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Michigan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Michigan. That story is bonkers.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you find ... What was it, like 11 of the people involved in the kidnapping scheme were FBI informants?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- 57:03 – 1:02:08
Campus protests, Israel–Palestine rhetoric, and ideological information warfare
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh my gosh. That, that's... I, I had a dinner the other night with, with a, a, a family. It was, it was, uh, during the holiday of Passover, and this, this question came up about, uh, what would happen if another 9/11-style terrorist attack or some major, um, incident like that came up in our country today? Would it have that same kind of unifying effect that occurred after that attack on 9/11? And when you look at things like that, like the Osama bin Laden letter, and you look at, uh, how there, there is... I mean, there, there's an entire... not an entire generation, but there's a, a lot of people now who I wouldn't be surprised if they said, "Well, you know, such an attack was justified," and, and not have that same kind of sense of unity of like, "Hey, no matter our differences, we got to stand together as Americans." And that's a, that's a... that should be a serious concern.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's... it should be a serious concern also when you really take into consideration how many genuinely dumb people there are and when you have a situation like October 7th in Israel. I saw, within days before Israel did what they did in Palestine, within days, I saw people justifying the attacks on October 7th-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because of the treatment that Israel has given to the Palestinians. I'm like, "Hey, that's crazy."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"That's crazy." That's crazy to say that you think people should be indiscriminately shot-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and killed and just en masse at a, at a fucking rave, like paratrooping.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You think that's okay-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because of what Israel's done? But guess what? Those people didn't do that.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Those people at the rave and those people that are on the border, those are apparently, according to Ari, those are the, the hippies.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're the ones who want to be... They're, they're the ones who don't believe that we should be there.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Don't believe in borders.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, they don't believe in borders.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Th- they want to be close to the Palestinians, which is-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right. Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
T- t-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
And that, that's where, you know, some of the things that they're chanting at, at, uh... that these protesters are chanting at Columbia University-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... and some of the other ones, "We hope that October 7th happens 10,000 times over," they say.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
You know, celebrating Hamas, this Islamist terrorist organization. It, it's... it is. It's, it's, um... you know, I, I, I don't, I don't think we can just dismiss them as just being stupid. You know what I mean? Like, these kids are going to Ivy League schools. They are, they are being absolutely manipulated, and there is, there is a very intentional ideological war that is being waged in this example by these radical Islamist groups, like Hamas, and they had planned this. They've been doing this for hundreds of years, and they're using technology, and they're using other means to be able to, to achieve that end.
- JRJoe Rogan
No doubt, as is Russia, as is China. They've infiltrated universities. You know, the, the famous Yuri Bezmenov speech from 1984-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, which is crazy when you hear it today, because he called it. He knew it was gonna happen-
- 1:02:08 – 1:41:47
Data is the commodity: Big Tech, DNA databases, and government-platform collusion
- JRJoe Rogan
100%. And if they can just trick you into buying some stuff along the way, that'd be great. (laughs)
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly. (laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Who ever thought-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that your data would be so valuable?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the thing about when, like, you and I were younger, it meant nothing. Your data meant nothing. Like, nobody ... "What is, what are you talking about, my data?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
"What are you talking about, my data?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
"What's, what is i?"
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs) Why would anybody-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- TGTulsi Gabbard
... be interested in that? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I remember my first inclination that data meant something was, uh, I bought Dianetics. I bought that book-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in, like, 1994 when it first-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... moved to Hollywood. And Scientology never stopped sending me things.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
They never stopped.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Like, "We got one."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, they... I was like, "Oh, that's how they get you."
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then they get you to join. I guess you have to give them a piece, give them a taste-
- TGTulsi Gabbard
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of what you're doing. You've joined the group.
- TGTulsi Gabbard
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and so data now is responsible for the largest corporations in terms of, like, the amount of money.
Episode duration: 2:39:42
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