Joe Rogan Experience #2143 - Tulsi Gabbard

Narrator 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Narrator 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

Tulsi Gabbard 0:12 Cheers. Here we go, my friend.

Joe Rogan 0:15 This is the second time-

Tulsi Gabbard 0:16 I feel great.

Joe Rogan 0:16 ... we ever worked out together.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:17 I know. I feel great.

Joe Rogan 0:19 It was awesome, right?

Tulsi Gabbard 0:20 That was great. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 It's a great way to get the day started.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:22 It was perfect, actually.

Joe Rogan 0:24 We do these, uh, the, the comedian, uh, boot camps. So, you, we got, did it today, we did it with Hasan and Derek and Shane, Shane Gillis. And, and we have fun. You know?

Tulsi Gabbard 0:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:36 So you get the workout in and you talk a lot of shit and you get silly.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:39 (laughs) That's the best part.

Joe Rogan 0:39 It's really fun. It's just, like, real silly.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 You know, and we have a good time.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:44 So...

Tulsi Gabbard 0:44 I, uh, yeah. Thanks for the invite. It was-

Joe Rogan 0:46 Oh, my pleasure.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:47 It was... I've been on the road for, I don't know, for weeks. And so, you know, if you're lucky, you get a, a decent hotel gym.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Right.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:55 But you gotta be really creative.

Joe Rogan 0:56 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 0:57 Uh, most of them, the best they'll have are dumbbells and, you know, that's it. Uh...

Joe Rogan 1:02 I just realized, you're the second celebrity to do that with us, and the second Hawaiian, 'cause The Rock did it.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:09 The Rock. Samoan.

Joe Rogan 1:09 So it's like there's something going on with- (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11 Samoan pride here. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13 Something going on with, uh, Hawaiians-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:15 It's funny.

Joe Rogan 1:15 ... coming here.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:16 Well, we'll have to figure out, you know Max Holloway is Hawaiian and Samoan too.

Joe Rogan 1:19 He didn't work out though. Max, last time he was here-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21 ... he was just off of his, uh, his win.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:23 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, he gets-

Joe Rogan 1:24 He's just chilling.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:24 ... a break (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 1:24 Yeah, he's just chilling.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:25 ... after that, man.

Joe Rogan 1:26 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:26 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:27 Yeah, take some time off, bro.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:28 No, that, that, um... I was telling you, like, the sauna, I, I am definitely, like, from the islands because I'm okay with heat.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Mm-hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:38 So 20 minutes in the sauna, it was good, it was challenging, but it was good.

Joe Rogan 1:41 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:42 The cold however (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:45 (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 1:45 That ice bath. I've done that, like, a quick polar plunge-

Joe Rogan 1:49 Mm-hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:49 ... briefly, jumping in, jumping out, but...

Joe Rogan 1:52 And that one was at the lowest setting in terms of the jets of water.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:56 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:57 So what we have is called a Blue Cube, and Blue Cube is, uh, the type of, uh, cold plunge that has a, it has an engine in it that you can turn on to higher, higher levels of waves. So if you turn it, like, to the highest level, it's just rushing at you like a river. And so you-

Tulsi Gabbard 2:13 Is that better or worse?

Joe Rogan 2:14 Horrible.

Tulsi Gabbard 2:15 Okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:15 It's horrible because you just, you never develop a thermal barrier.

Tulsi Gabbard 2:19 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 2:19 So if you can just... Like, cold, all cold water immersion is very good for you. It's good for cold shock proteins, norepinephrine, mood, stabilization, makes you feel better.

Tulsi Gabbard 2:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:30 All those things are good. But the still cold is much more tolerable for whatever rea- I don't know what's better for you.

Tulsi Gabbard 2:36 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:37 See, that's the question. Like, is it better, is it just as good and more tolerable, or is it better to be more, to suffer for the full three minutes?

Tulsi Gabbard 2:46 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 2:46 'Cause if you turn that bitch on-

Tulsi Gabbard 2:47 Suffer more. Is the benefit proportional to the suffering is really the question, right?

Joe Rogan 2:52 Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if you suffer more if you get more benefit or-

Tulsi Gabbard 2:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:54 ... if there's a point where you're actually hurting your body.

Tulsi Gabbard 2:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:57 You know, like maybe, maybe there's a point... I mean, obviously if you stay in the cold water too long-

Tulsi Gabbard 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 ... you'll die.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:02 That's what hypothermia is.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:03 So, but there's a level where if you just get a few minutes in, it's really good for you. So I don't know if it's better if you're miserable. (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 3:12 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:14 I don't know. But if you wanna test your mind, that, that-

Tulsi Gabbard 3:17 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 3:17 ... Blue Cube is the one to do because-

Tulsi Gabbard 3:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:19 ... that sucker gets fast. That sucker gets like a river.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:22 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:22 So you're just laying in there and it's like shit.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:24 An assault of cold water.

Joe Rogan 3:26 The moment it sucks when, when you climb in, that moment never changes.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:29 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:29 That's the difference 'cause in a regular cold plunge, after a while, you develop, like, this thermal barrier. And even though it sucks, it only sucks like 80% of what it sucked when you first got in.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:39 With the Blue Cube, it's 100% suck.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:41 (laughs) Every time.

Joe Rogan 3:41 The whole ride, suckity suck, suck, suck. It just sucks.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:44 So it sounds like you gotta try it at least once.

Joe Rogan 3:47 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:47 And figure it out.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Well, you did the, the... Just doing it the way you did it for three minutes-

Tulsi Gabbard 3:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:51 ... like I said, the first time I did it, I did it like a minute and 24 seconds. I was like, "Ah."

Tulsi Gabbard 3:54 Well, I couldn't chicken out in front of all-

Joe Rogan 3:56 (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 3:56 ... the guys. You know what I mean? It's like when Hasan says-

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 3:59 ... "Well, I did it three minutes to show up for The Rock's," like-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:02 ... okay, I'm not gonna be the one who chickens out at a minute. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:05 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:05 That's not, that's not an option.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Well, you did it. You did it.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:07 Yeah. No, it was good. It was good, uh, it was very challenging. It was good. I, we don't, we don't have a, we don't have a cold plunge. It's like, okay, I'm not, I'm not gonna go and, like, find bags of ice every single day from 7-Eleven and dump in the bathtub. So I just, when I can, I just, like, dump my face in ice cubes and water.

Joe Rogan 4:25 That's good too.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Yeah. I mean, it, that'll wake you up.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 All that stuff's good.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:30 The- there's some pretty reasonably priced options for coolers that you could actually do in a bathtub now.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:35 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:35 And you, so there's, there's a bunch of different ways you should do it, but if you've got the scratch, like, uh-

Tulsi Gabbard 4:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:39 ... one of these Blue Cubes or something similar.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:42 Like a Morozco makes a really good one too. They're really good.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:45 There's-

Tulsi Gabbard 4:45 I can, I can see-

Joe Rogan 4:46 ... there's a bunch of 'em.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:46 ... I can see how that feel, the after feeling-

Joe Rogan 4:49 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:49 ... gets kind of addictive.

Joe Rogan 4:51 I'm sure someone will reach out to you and try, try to get you to use their shit. (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 4:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:56 It's very good though.

Tulsi Gabbard 4:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:58 And they, but it's, it's also, like, the camaraderie, the fun.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:00 For sure.

Joe Rogan 5:01 You know, you have fun, listen to music.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:02 For sure.

Joe Rogan 5:03 Laugh a lot.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:03 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:05 Yeah. This was perfect.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Yeah. It's a good way to get a podcast started.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:09 You know? Oh, and by the way, congratulations to the marijuana enjoyers of the world 'cause the DEA officially rescheduled marijuana to, they're gonna reschedule it to Schedule III.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 5:18 Which still, it should, it shouldn't be illegal.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:22 We know that.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:22 I agree.

Joe Rogan 5:23 But baby steps.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:25 You know, the fact that it's making progress at all just shows that-

Tulsi Gabbard 5:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:29 ... the, you know, the collective will of the people is being heard, at least somewhat.

Tulsi Gabbard 5:33 There was... I'm trying to remember who it was. Uh, somebody was telling me that, like, the decriminalization crew, they gave...... an American flag made out of hemp to a member of Congress to fly above the Capitol. 'Cause it's a normal thing. Like, you know, I, I would get people when I was in Congress calling and saying, "Hey, it's, uh, you know, my friend is retiring from the military from 30 years, can you fly a flag in honor of him or her?" And so you get a little certificate with it, and, and this, like, there are many flags that go up and down every day that are given as gifts to people. Uh, so someone did it with a flag, American flag made out of hemp. And apparently, it caused major problems within the DEA and within the administration, saying, "How dare you? How could anyone allow this to happen?" It made zero sense whatsoever. But it just pointed to the, the backwards mindset and thinking and the sensitivity within the DEA, uh, and the government around cannabis, hemp, marijuana.

Joe Rogan 6:38 It just seems a massive lack of education too.

Tulsi Gabbard 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 It's not as simple as, you know, your thinking of it in, in connection to marijuana. It's, hemp is a commodity that has existed forever. In fact, canvas that writers paint on, or that painters, artists paint on, that, the original word canvas came from cannabis.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:00 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 7:00 It was made out of hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:01 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 7:01 They made hemp paper as a better paper. They, they made hemp clothing.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:06 It's far superior to cotton. The only reason why they d- this is where it gets weird. It ha- there's, there's, there's a bunch of things that took place that took hemp away from being a common source of paper and clothing. But one of them was making slavery illegal.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:24 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Because before they came out with the decorticator, what the primary way they used, uh, to process hemp fiber was really painstaking, 'cause it's a, it's an incredible plant.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:38 It's a very light plant, but it's insanely durable. Like, hemp clothing is so much more dur- like I have a hemp jujitsu gi from Datsura.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:47 Oh, wow. Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:48 And that sucker never rips.

Tulsi Gabbard 7:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:50 My cotton gis, they're good for like, you know, you wear 'em for like six months, a year, they're gonna, the shit starts going. Even like really strong, stable cotton threads start going. These hemp gis are like, they're invincible.

Tulsi Gabbard 8:04 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 8:04 It's crazy.

Tulsi Gabbard 8:04 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 8:05 And hemp paper is so difficult to tear. It's like a completely different kind of pa-

Tulsi Gabbard 8:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:10 Makes no sense.

Tulsi Gabbard 8:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:11 It's an amazing rope. It d- it's like you could use it to make concrete.

Tulsi Gabbard 8:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:15 They make hemp cr- have you seen that? Where they make houses with it?

Tulsi Gabbard 8:18 I, uh, yeah, my, my dad is a, a state senator in Hawaii. He's the chair of the agriculture committee. And for years, he's been the state's biggest advocate for hemp as, um, an economic driver, and, and to try to help revive agriculture in Hawaii. And so he's talked endlessly about the houses and just ev- everything, all of the different benefits of hemp. He's got some hemp aloha shirts, and, and the whole deal. The, the, the, this, this thing that you're talking about, though, the, the federal government and the classification is the biggest barrier to this actually becoming, um, a really viable and thriving industry in our country, because people are growing crops of, of hemp. But they've gotta go through all of this crazy THC testing. And I've talked to people who are, who are farmers and businesspeople who are investing in this. And they've had to throw, like entire crops away, because of, I, I don't know the details about the testing. But it, it just, you know, one plus one doesn't equal two when you look at the reality of the benefits of hemp and the, the farming process, and the concerns that they have within the DEA.

Joe Rogan 9:25 So, is the concern if it has any level of THC at all-

Tulsi Gabbard 9:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:29 ... it becomes illegal, even if you're just processing it as a commodity and you're not using it?

Tulsi Gabbard 9:33 Right, correct.

Joe Rogan 9:33 But did they understand like, it's very valuable as a commodity.

Tulsi Gabbard 9:37 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:37 This is what's so s- it's so stupid. This, this whole thing is stupid because we're always concerned about, and rightly so, about cutting down forest to make paper.

Tulsi Gabbard 9:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:46 Right? Well, guess what? Hemp paper, you can grow an entire l- like first of all, it's much more viable. You have much more product. It's much more durable. And you can regrow it, quick.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:00 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:00 It just grows right back again.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Whereas trees takes years and years-

Tulsi Gabbard 10:04 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:04 ... to grow them back. Hemp, you got another season. Whoop.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Okay, here's a hemp plant. Grows crazy fast, super light, super durable.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:12 Just gotta think about it as a commodity and stop connecting it to marijuana.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:15 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:15 And you're going, "Well, this invaluable. 'Cause this could solve a lot of our problems, especially with deforestation." And then if you look at it, and for building materials, like wait, this might be the greatest building material we can use.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:26 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:26 It's incredible insulation.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:28 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:28 It's very durable and strong, and again, renewable.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:32 Like instantaneously. It grows so quick.

Tulsi Gabbard 10:34 Yeah. What's, what's interest- I mean, for us in Hawaii, I mean, w- tourism is the biggest economic driver we have. And every time there's, you know, in the post 9/11, when people weren't traveling so much, during COVID, when everything shut down, businesses go out of business. Small businesses are driven out, because if they don't have that driver. So the conversation always comes up about, "Okay, well, we've gotta diversify our economy." And this is one of those areas that has huge potential for a small island state like ours in Hawaii. And what's interesting is, uh, Mitch McConnell, I believe he's from Kentucky, uh, their state is also a state that is promoting, uh, hemp as a major agriculture driver. So, there, there's opportunity there, but it requires a lot more education, uh, from those both in the administration and in Congress to actually take down those barriers, and allow it to actually truly be an industry in America.

Joe Rogan 11:29 When we started, first started selling hemp protein at Onnit, we used to have to get it from Canada.

Tulsi Gabbard 11:34 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:35 "You can sell it in America. Can't grow it here." I was like, "What?"

Tulsi Gabbard 11:38 I'm kidding. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:38 "It's just food."

Tulsi Gabbard 11:40 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 11:40 "It's just hemp seeds. It's really good for you."

Tulsi Gabbard 11:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:42 It's like full of amino acids and rich in protein. And they're like, "No, can't grow it. That shit's illegal." But-

Tulsi Gabbard 11:48 You know what's nuts too, is, is, um...... the military, people who are on active duty in the military, they can't put hemp seeds in their smoothie. They can't use any CBD balm that you can buy at the freaking gas station or anything at all, because-

Joe Rogan 12:05 CBD balm?

Tulsi Gabbard 12:05 Yeah. CBD balm. Anything that has, um ... Your, your energy drink that has-

Joe Rogan 12:11 CBD?

Tulsi Gabbard 12:11 Yep.

Joe Rogan 12:12 Killkliff? Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 12:12 Cannot. Not allowed.

Joe Rogan 12:13 What?

Tulsi Gabbard 12:14 You, you could, you could seriously get punished-

Joe Rogan 12:16 So if they catch you-

Tulsi Gabbard 12:16 ... if you are caught.

Joe Rogan 12:18 Are they testing blood for CBD?

Tulsi Gabbard 12:21 They, they're not testing blood for CBD.

Joe Rogan 12:23 So it's just illegal. So if you get caught with the product.

Tulsi Gabbard 12:26 I- if you get caught with the pro- Correct. And th- Their fear is like, you're gonna piss hot, because, you know-

Joe Rogan 12:31 Oh.

Tulsi Gabbard 12:31 ... you take the, you know, random urinalysis test and everything else. But i- i- ... So, so (laughs) the ... I, I laughed, you know. I mean, again, it's lack of education, it's fear, and it's like, well, this is bound by the federal government, so the military must comply. But at the same time, the guy, uh, within the Army, the civilian who was putting out this policy, um, he also said you're not allowed to eat anything with poppy seed. You can't eat a poppy seed-

Joe Rogan 12:57 Right.

Tulsi Gabbard 12:57 ... muffin-

Joe Rogan 12:58 I was gonna bring that up.

Tulsi Gabbard 12:58 ... because you might piss hot.

Joe Rogan 12:59 That's the wildest one.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:00 Well, you will, yeah. You will. Like, you, you can go to Dubai, and they'll ... If there's a-

Tulsi Gabbard 13:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:04 You go places where it's like seriously strict, Saudi Arabia, they'll test you for heroin.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:09 Geez.

Joe Rogan 13:09 It'll ... You'll test positive for heroin. Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:11 Unreal.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Poppy seeds are rough.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:12 That's a scary one. It's like, wait a minute, bagel poppy seeds?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Those things make you piss hot for heroin?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:18 (laughs) Lemon poppy seed muffin? What?

Joe Rogan 13:20 Yeah. They tell you, if you go in for a drug test, do not eat poppy seeds before you go.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:23 That's crazy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:25 Like, what? Bagels.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:27 How bad is your test? (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 13:28 Right. Th- That-

Joe Rogan 13:29 How bad is your test today?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:29 ... that's the point.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Yeah. How bad is your test?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:31 How, like, technology, biology, like all this stuff, you guys can't get a better test?

Joe Rogan 13:35 Your test doesn't know that I just ate a bagel?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:36 (laughs) It's so stupid. You gonna put somebody in a cage for eating a bagel?

Tulsi Gabbard 13:41 Yeah. But like, for a guy in the military, that could be the end of your freaking career.

Joe Rogan 13:44 It could. It could.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:44 You'd be kicked out for it.

Joe Rogan 13:45 Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just being at a party and people are smoking-

Tulsi Gabbard 13:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:49 And, you know, you get secondhand smoke.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:51 And you'll test positive.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:52 You know. Th- Those, those tests are probably pretty rough, because people definitely get high from secondhand smoke.

Tulsi Gabbard 13:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:58 I've seen it happen before. I've seen sober people go into a room that's filled with pot and every- everyone comes out like a little loopy, like, "You're breathing in the same air."

Tulsi Gabbard 14:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:07 "You're breathing in pot air." I used to have a dog that I got. Uh, she was a stray, and she was a little prone to anxiety as it is. And if she was in the room when people smoked pot, she would get high and she'd get paranoid. She started hiding under tables.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:20 Oh, wow. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:20 I was like, "Oh, Lucy. Oh, Lucy, that's sad."

Tulsi Gabbard 14:24 Not good. (laughs) She was-

Joe Rogan 14:25 She was sad. You can see she was getting paranoid.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:26 She didn't get the chill factor? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:27 No. She was like, "The world is dangerous."

Tulsi Gabbard 14:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:30 You know, she used to live on the street.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:32 Man.

Joe Rogan 14:33 So it's just, uh ... I guess it's a good thing that they've scheduled it Schedule III. But for sure, forget about the drug part.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:41 They should be encouraging hemp production in this country.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 14:44 It's, it's an amazing food source. Hemp has all of the essential amino acids.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:51 It's very rich in protein. It's easily digestible. As far as like plant-based protein, for me, is my favorite one.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:57 Yep.

Joe Rogan 14:58 And the easiest one to digest.

Tulsi Gabbard 14:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 15:00 Like, it j- you ... Just like easy, it goes down smooth.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:02 It's no problem at all. And, you know, it's, it's very good for you.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:06 And CBD is very good for you. But forget about all the hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:09 Just, just for a commodity-

Tulsi Gabbard 15:11 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 15:11 ... and for building construction and clothing. Do you know the first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp?

Tulsi Gabbard 15:18 I've heard that.

Joe Rogan 15:19 Yeah. Yeah, like, it, it was, it was used for everything.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:23 It was used for ropes for s- for, uh, sailboats.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:26 They made sails out of it. All that st- The canvas, that was all made out of cannabis initially. It was all hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard 15:32 It's just ... It, it's just ... I mean, I, I introduced legislation in Congress to deschedule it completely, because it shouldn't be. It just shouldn't be.

Joe Rogan 15:40 Well, the wildest thing is how it happened in the first place. The wildest thing how it happened in the first place, is 'cause it was all William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger. And so what happened was, William Randolph Hearst, who owned Hearst Publications, he also owned, um, not just newspapers, but he owned paper mills and he owned forests. So he had all these forests that they would cut down the wood and use it to make paper. Well, he ... If, if they were gonna transfer over to hemp, this is gonna be very costly.

Tulsi Gabbard 16:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:07 And the cover of Popular Science magazine, in, I think it was 193- Find, find out what year that cover was. It says, "Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop," because they came up with a new machine, and it was called a decorticator. And this new device was a device that allows you to effectively process the hemp fiber in a much quicker and easier way. So it's this machine, it grinds it up. And so once they do this, they go, "Oh, boy, we figured out ... We ..." They've solved this problem of hemp, where it's really d- It's very durable, but it's really difficult to break down to the actual fibers.

Tulsi Gabbard 16:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:40 So 1938.

Tulsi Gabbard 16:42 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 16:43 So this comes out in 1938, "Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop." And so it's the cover of Popular Science magazine. Do you see ... Do you s- Do they have the cover so you could see what it says?

Narrator 16:53 Uh, there's an article that actually came out-

Joe Rogan 16:54 Oh, just an article?

Narrator 16:55 ... today about this somewhere, about hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard 16:57 Oh, wow.

Narrator 16:58 Talk about the article.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Popular Mechanics magazine. I'm sorry. So ... So the article is from 1938. And so when they come out with this, they talk about this, uh, new invention. See if you could find a photo of the decorticator, 'cause it's like this grindy kind of thing. Is that what it looks like?

Tulsi Gabbard 17:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:15 "Hemp, the new billion-dollar crop." So once they had this ability to really quickly turn it into fibers, then big industry starts getting involved. And, um, what, what they start doing is they start making these stories and putting them in the newspaper about Mexicans and Black people smoking this new drug called marijuana and raping white women.

Tulsi Gabbard 17:39 Mm.

Joe Rogan 17:40 And marijuana was not-... pot. Marijuana was, uh, a wild Mexican tobacco.

Tulsi Gabbard 17:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:48 It was a slang for a wild Mexican tobacco.

Tulsi Gabbard 17:50 Really?

Joe Rogan 17:50 It had nothing to do with marijuana. So they start attaching this name to something and calling it a drug because they knew that cannabis was so ubiquitous.

Tulsi Gabbard 17:59 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:59 And, and hemp as a, as a commodity was everybody knew it, what, what it was good for.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:05 And so they had to come up with some sneaky way to get it through. So they come up with the word marijuana. So marijuana was not a term for pot. It wasn't a term for cannabis. It was a term for this wild Mexican tobacco.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:18 And so when they started making marijuana illegal, Congress didn't even understand that it was the same thing as hemp. And so they had to come up with some sort of a tax stamp that you can have in order to grow hemp while marijuana is illegal.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:33 And then this is like right after prohibition, right?

Tulsi Gabbard 18:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:37 So prohibition ends, you got all these cops that were used to busting people, like sick 'em on the farmers now.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:42 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 18:42 And this is what happened.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:43 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 18:44 And then they come up with these dopey movies that are amazing to watch today. Have you ever seen Reefer Madness?

Tulsi Gabbard 18:50 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 18:51 It's crazy.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:52 It's like people smoking pot just jumping outta windows and killing people.

Tulsi Gabbard 18:56 Oh my god. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:56 (laughs) Just like, it has this guy smoking pot-

Tulsi Gabbard 18:58 Talk about some propaganda. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:59 Oh, it's the worst propaganda. But it was really effective. Like this is it. I've got a few of these, uh, posters-

Tulsi Gabbard 19:06 Weird.

Joe Rogan 19:06 ... that I have 'em, I have them, uh, framed.

Tulsi Gabbard 19:09 Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 19:10 Because these movies were insane and they were just full on-

Tulsi Gabbard 19:14 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:14 ... propaganda movies.

Tulsi Gabbard 19:15 Lust, crime, sorrow, hate, shame, despair.

Joe Rogan 19:18 Find the movie, find a clip from the movie Reefer Madness. We'll just watch it without playing it, but-

Tulsi Gabbard 19:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:23 ... it, it was so nutty. Like and they scared everybody.

Tulsi Gabbard 19:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:26 Like, "Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God." So understand that media has sucked forever.

Tulsi Gabbard 19:33 Yeah, exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:34 Just understand that. So this is Reefer Madness.

Narrator 19:36 At the local soda fountain. Innocently, they dance.

Joe Rogan 19:40 So that dude on the piano, he's a reefer man.

Narrator 19:43 Lurking behind closed doors. Marijuana, the burning weed with its roots in hell.

Joe Rogan 19:52 (laughs) Look at him.

Narrator 19:53 In this film, you will see the ease with which this vicious plant can be grown in your neighbor's yard, rolled into harmless looking cigarettes, hidden in an innocent shoe or watch case. In this startling film, you will see dopsters lure children to destruction.

20:11 We're going over to Joe's place. Why don't you come along? We have a date to play a set of doubles. Oh, you can play anytime. Come on. We'll have some laughs. Can I go along with you? Sure. Hey, I'll see you at dinner, sis. If you want a good smoke, try one of these.

Joe Rogan 20:23 (laughs)

Narrator 20:24 You'll meet Bill who once took pride in his strong will as he takes the first step toward enslavement.

Joe Rogan 20:32 Enslavement.

Tulsi Gabbard 20:34 (laughs) You're afraid?

Narrator 20:38 Smoking the soul destroying reefer, they find a moment's pleasure, but at a terrible price. Divorcee, violence, murder.

Joe Rogan 20:49 Oh.

Tulsi Gabbard 20:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 20:50 Look, she's just gonna jump out the window.

Tulsi Gabbard 20:52 Oh my gosh. Geez.

Joe Rogan 20:57 (Laughs) (instrumental music plays) Apparently it makes you act terrible too.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:01 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:02 I'm terrible at acting.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:04 Look at this guy. Play faster.

Joe Rogan 21:13 She's actually playing pretty good for someone who's stoned.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:16 You know, imagine being hammered and trying to play that.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:18 Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Yeah. So this was the propaganda from... And what year was that, Jamie?

Narrator 21:23 '36.

Joe Rogan 21:24 '36.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:24 Wow.

Joe Rogan 21:24 So this is all, they're all like trying to stop hemp as a commodity.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:30 Wow.

Joe Rogan 21:31 That's really what it's all about.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:32 It's really not about the drug-

Tulsi Gabbard 21:33 Isn't it fascinating just to see just, you know, the repetition of the, the propaganda information warfare-

Joe Rogan 21:41 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:41 ... to be able to serve a, a special interest?

Joe Rogan 21:44 Yeah, it's ridiculous. And it's ridiculous that it's always existed.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:46 Fomenting fear and-

Joe Rogan 21:48 Yeah. And that it was going on almost 100 years ago.

Tulsi Gabbard 21:50 Yeah, incredible.

Joe Rogan 21:51 And what's, what's also important about it is, the problem with something like that is that now you don't trust the media, right?

Tulsi Gabbard 21:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:57 Now, if you don't trust the media and then you go out and try it yourself, you don't have real accurate information 'cause now there's like this... There, there's these narratives that have been created that aren't based on truth. And so you don't know where to go.

Tulsi Gabbard 22:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:09 You don't know what's real and what's not. And then you have people that tell you it's harmless, and then you have people tell you, "Well..." And there's people like me, they go, "Nah."

Tulsi Gabbard 22:15 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:16 Because I'm like, "It's not harmless."

Tulsi Gabbard 22:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:17 It's not, marijuana is not a harmless thing.

Tulsi Gabbard 22:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:19 You definitely shouldn't take it when you're young. And here's what's really important. Some people can't handle it for whatever reason, and it's most likely some biological thing. Just like some people are allergic to aspirin or-

Tulsi Gabbard 22:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:31 ... or whatever. Like there's some people, they don't mix well with that stuff. And there's a real connection between schizophrenia with some people that maybe are percep- susceptible to schizophrenia.

Tulsi Gabbard 22:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:43 Alex Berenson wrote a, a great book about it called Tell Your Children.

Tulsi Gabbard 22:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:46 It's very interesting because there's real instances of people taking high doses and getting schizophrenic.

Tulsi Gabbard 22:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:52 But if we, if we're being lied to about it, y- no one knows what... Who did-

Tulsi Gabbard 22:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Who's gonna give me the information?

Tulsi Gabbard 22:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Where's the truth coming out? Because they're... If one group is saying that this is a schedule one chemical and it's very dangerous and then all your friends are just smoking weed and going to the movies, you're like-

Tulsi Gabbard 23:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:08 ... well can... Clearly this is not that dangerous.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Like jujitsu people and surfers, they're all getting high. Like-

Tulsi Gabbard 23:14 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:14 ... what's real here?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:16 And because we don't have the ability to, to, to just honestly talk about things without everything getting so weird and-

Tulsi Gabbard 23:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:25 ... like, like the hemp thing.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Like having a hemp flag.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Like this is a problem with the DEA.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:29 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Hey guys.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:30 Don't you have fentanyl to worry about?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:33 Seriously.

Joe Rogan 23:33 Why are you fucking with flags?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:35 Seriously, it makes no sense.

Joe Rogan 23:35 There's only 10,000 DEA agents.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:38 I think there's 10,100 and some DEA agents. You, you guys got time for flags?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:43 ... how many pounds of-

Tulsi Gabbard 23:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:45 ... fentanyl is coming through that border while we're talking?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:48 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 23:48 While you and I are talking, how much fentanyl is making it across in people's shoes and underwear?

Tulsi Gabbard 23:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:53 And where the fuck they're hiding it.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:55 No one's checking everybody.

Tulsi Gabbard 23:57 Yeah. No, it's true. It's, uh... And then, of course, all- all the medicinal qualities of CBD as well, and- and-

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:04 ... how many people-

Joe Rogan 24:05 It's great stuff.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:06 ... and kids, and- and just people are benefiting, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:08 Oh, yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:08 ... from that.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Well, Dave Foley told me that h- h- his arthritis was so bad that his- his fingers were kind of, like, locked in this position.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:15 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:15 He had a really hard time straightening them, until he started taking CBD.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:17 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 24:17 And then he's like, "It's so much better now."

Tulsi Gabbard 24:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Just, like, "My fingers have full range of motion now."

Tulsi Gabbard 24:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:23 I know so many people that take it for, like, aches and pains. And- and it actually helps some people with anxiety too, which is interesting.

Tulsi Gabbard 24:30 The conflict here is, as you know, you know, as majority of states in the country have legalized it in some fashion, whether it's medicinal or recreational or whatever, all-all these different levels. But because of the federal, um, prohibition, essentially, you know, you've got banking... I- it is a multi, I don't know, multi-hundred-million-dollar industry, at least at this point. But in order to be able to conduct business with the bank, the bank and the business owner faces potential, uh, a potential federal charge-

Joe Rogan 25:01 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 25:02 ... of a crime. And so, it's, um, you know, the- the- the second, third, fourth order of effects of this scheduling of, uh, cannabis is- is very, very far-reaching and- and creating, uh, a worse problem, which, you know, is, you know... Okay, so we do this on the black market? Has this become a cash industry?

Joe Rogan 25:20 Right.

Tulsi Gabbard 25:20 Or where does this go?

Joe Rogan 25:22 Yeah, and the problem also is by having some states have it legal and some states have it illegal, then you still open up a market for illegal sales in the country. And what happens is the cartel comes in-

Tulsi Gabbard 25:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:35 ... and they start growing it on public lands.

Tulsi Gabbard 25:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:38 I had a guy on the podcast, his name is John Norris, and he started off as a game warden. So he started off as a guy who's gonna check fishing licenses and stuff. And one day, they find that a stream has been diverted, and they're trying to figure out why, why this stream-

Tulsi Gabbard 25:52 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:53 ... has dried up. So they make their way up the stream, and they find these- this irrigation system that's set up for an illegal marijuana grow-op in the middle of public land-

Tulsi Gabbard 26:01 Wow.

Joe Rogan 26:01 ... in California. So then they develop a tactical team. So it goes from being him being a game warden, now they have dogs and bulletproof vests, they're getting in shootouts with the cartel.

Tulsi Gabbard 26:12 Jeez.

Joe Rogan 26:12 So they're ex- 'Cause they're making millions of dollars, but they're using really dangerous chemicals and pesticides that are illegal to use on crops in America.

Tulsi Gabbard 26:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:21 And they're just using that shit up there. So who knows what the fuck you're getting if you're living in one of these states that has illegal pot.

Tulsi Gabbard 26:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:28 Because when California changed the law and made marijuana legal recreationally, they made growing marijuana without a license... It's just a misdemeanor. So these guys that are just doing it now from the cartel-

Tulsi Gabbard 26:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:41 ... they're like, "This is... You have nothing to risk."

Tulsi Gabbard 26:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:43 "You're just... It's a misdemeanor, and we can make millions and millions of dollars."

Tulsi Gabbard 26:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:46 And so they have these guys up there. They have, like, you know, rosaries and all this, like, photos of Jesus and shit they find in campgrounds. And they- they pay these guys to go out there, grow this stuff, and then bring it out.

Tulsi Gabbard 26:59 Geez.

Joe Rogan 26:59 Harvest it and bring it out.

Tulsi Gabbard 27:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:00 And they're selling it. He said that, I think, believe John said at the time of our podcast that 90% of all the marijuana that's being sold in the states where it's illegal is all from these grow-op's, a lot of them in California-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:15 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:15 ... on public land by the cartels.

Tulsi Gabbard 27:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:17 90%.

Tulsi Gabbard 27:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:19 90.

Tulsi Gabbard 27:19 That's huge.

Joe Rogan 27:20 Even good old-fashioned American pot-growing entrepreneurs-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:23 ... the illegal ones-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:24 ... they can't keep up with the cartel. And this is because it's illegal, and this is the same reason why-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:29 ... fentanyl's coming in. The same re-... I mean, (sighs) don't do heroin, kids, okay? But it should... You ke-... If you keep everything illegal, you're gonna just prop up the government of these compan- or these countries that is allowing this stuff to come in, and they're allowing people to grow it or they can't do anything about it-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:50 ... because the cartel has so much money and so much power that the government is basically helpless. And you're... It's being-

Tulsi Gabbard 27:56 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:56 ... propped up by Americans.

Tulsi Gabbard 27:58 100%.

Joe Rogan 27:59 100%.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:00 100%.

Joe Rogan 28:00 It- it's a, it's a rough thing to deal with, because we don't want to say, like, "Oh, let's make all drugs legal." 'Cause my God, the last thing you want is your kid to die of a drug overdose.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:10 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 28:10 So nobody wants ever- kids to be doing drugs.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:14 But also, if you don't do that, you're just gonna empower our neighbors to the south, who happen to be drug dealers, some of them, and th- th- they're making billions of dollars-

Tulsi Gabbard 28:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:25 ... selling drugs to America.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:27 And you're killing kids at- at a rate higher than ever in recorded history. People are dying. There's 100,000-plus people every year that are dying from opiate overdoses.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Which is nuts.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:39 That's so much.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:41 It's crazy. It's crazy that it's happening here in the United States of America.

Joe Rogan 28:44 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:44 You-

Joe Rogan 28:44 And the thing is, it's... This is where it's hard. It's happening because it's illegal.

Tulsi Gabbard 28:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Which sounds so counterintuitive. It- it would... The- the problem is, if it was legal, there would be a long period of time where it'd be really bad. You know, I think if it was legal, too many people would try it that wouldn't try it.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:06 Wouldn't have otherwise-

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:08 ... hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:08 They're not gonna go to a drug dealer.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:10 But if they can just go to CVS-

Tulsi Gabbard 29:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:11 ... and buy heroin-

Tulsi Gabbard 29:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:12 ... like, let's see what the fuss is all about.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 You know? That's spooky.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:16 I think that this, this is the conversation that needs to be had, though. You know what I mean? It's, I mean, it's the same thing about people unwilling to even discuss what- what is the right path? How do we, how do we handle, um, this- this crisis, that is a national crisis-

Joe Rogan 29:31 Yeah, they'll just tell you-

Tulsi Gabbard 29:32 ... that's taking so many people's lives?

Joe Rogan 29:33 ... tell people not to do it.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:35 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 29:36 Okay.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:37 Okay. (laughs) It's like-

Tulsi Gabbard 29:39 I don't know how well that- that works out.

Joe Rogan 29:40 It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And- and it's, uh... That's... We're- we're in a weird spot.

Tulsi Gabbard 29:47 I was in, uh, San Diego a few weeks ago.We went out, um, kind of to- to film a little mini-documentary about what's happening at the border in San Diego. There's a lot of attention being put on, you know, Texas and Arizona, but California's border is a whole different dynamic, both because they've got, you know, a long stretch of border where you're- you're crossing in and you're going straight to mountains, you know, big open spaces. But then you've got the very dense urban, uh, corridor, I suppose, uh, where people, whether they're coming in through the water or they're just coming across the border, where they can disappear into neighborhoods very quickly. But, uh, what- what was- there- there's a few things that were very eye-opening and interesting. Number one is, we- we know that the borders are open because we know how many people are coming through. The numbers that are being reported, I think, is close to nine million now, just over the course of the Biden administration. What I saw there were, um, people coming in. And we were just driving around and we saw groups of people gathering in different locations from all over the world, illegal immigrants, and, uh, seemingly happy and going to the place where they were told to go or they knew the Border Patrol was gonna pick them up. And knowing that they will get processed, claim asylum, and most of them will be out with a plane ticket anywhere in the country, uh, within 24 hours. And so-

Joe Rogan 31:13 That's crazy.

Tulsi Gabbard 31:14 ... it- it's- it's- I, you know, and I've talked with some of the Border Patrol agents and- and, you know, they're- they're not allowed to say anything on the record, but just the frustration that's being felt where they can't even do their job.

Joe Rogan 31:27 What is the justification for the plane ticket?

Tulsi Gabbard 31:32 Uh, they don't have the- they don't have the ability to house people where they are.

Joe Rogan 31:38 So, they're just like-

Tulsi Gabbard 31:39 "Where do you wanna go?"

Joe Rogan 31:40 Is it-

Tulsi Gabbard 31:40 "Utah? Okay, here you go."

Joe Rogan 31:41 (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 31:43 "Where do you wanna go? New York City?" And- and I went and I talked to a lot of them. I sat down and talked with people from Brazil, from Egypt, from, uh, Colombia, from Venezuela, from, um, you know, different parts of Eastern Europe, people from all over the world coming here with- with the known plan in this well-oiled machine, uh, and- and- and I'm- I'm talking about this 'cause it is very directed to the cartel, dir- directly connected to the cartels who are being enabled in their multi-billion dollar human trafficking operation across the border by our policies, by the Biden administration's policies at the border, which is connected to their ability to move fentanyl and other drugs across the border. And so we spent a couple of days at the border there, and then, uh, went into the city of San Diego and went and started talking to some homeless people, and- and talking to people who were clearly, clearly, um, extremely high on multiple drugs. And we're walking around with one of the community relations police officers there. He was just plainclothes. He's walking around and keeping an eye on what's going on there. But we talked to this one guy who had a crack pipe in his hand. Uh, he seemed barely conscious, but we had a- he- he was engaging in a long conversation with us. And, um, you know, I was asking him about fentanyl. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, I take fentanyl sometimes. Uh, but I usually take it at night to help me go to sleep." And I was like, "Aren't you afraid of not waking up?" Like, he's like, "Yeah, I've had a lot of friends who've died from fentanyl, but I know how much to take and-"

Joe Rogan 33:17 (inhales deeply)

Tulsi Gabbard 33:18 "... I know how to manage it. And have you? Have you?" He's like, "Yeah, I almost died twice and I was revived." Uh, but- and then asking him, uh, the police officer asked him, "What would it take to get you off the street? What would it take to get you to a place where you can get some help and- and to get off drugs?" And he said, this 27-year-old guy, "Nothing. Nothing." Um, he said, "There's too many rules in the places where I could go and stay, and I wanna live my life this way." It was so heartbreaking to see him, you know? His eyes were barely open and- and, um, clearly in an altered state of mind. But even in that state, in this conversation, how do you- how do you help someone who doesn't wanna be helped?

Joe Rogan 34:09 You can't. It's the problem. I mean, you could talk to them. You could hope that they could get some information from you that shifts the way they think about things, but the addiction gets so deep.

Tulsi Gabbard 34:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:22 And there's this, uh, thing that some addicts will say, is that, um, "I feel better when I'm high."

Tulsi Gabbard 34:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 34:30 That, "It's the only time I feel good. It's the only thing good that I have in my life, is when I get high. And if you take that away, my life is terrible." And if you've been an addict for a long time, the longer you're an addict, in fact, the more that's true.

Tulsi Gabbard 34:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Right? Because the more your life is a wreck-

Tulsi Gabbard 34:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:45 ... and then you're forced to deal with it when you come off and you realize, like, "Oh my god, I'm 45 years old and I'm a heroin addict." Like, "What the fuck? How is this?"

Tulsi Gabbard 34:54 (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 34:54 And then now you're sober and your life is, uh, in shambles.

Tulsi Gabbard 34:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:57 And you try to, like, figure out, "How did you go so wrong?" And then the only thing that made you feel good was heroin. You wanna go back.

Tulsi Gabbard 35:03 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:04 You wanna go back to that. And it's also people, like, get really scared of success.

Tulsi Gabbard 35:08 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:08 Even success in staying sober, they get s- scared of doing things well and they seek comfort in failure, 'cause they've- they've become accustomed to failure. So if they- the pressure of doing well and of, like, staying sober and, like, keeping healthy, like, it's almost too much.

Tulsi Gabbard 35:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:25 Just- just the maintaining, the psychological, the anxiety, all the- all the fear that comes with failing, that you just wanna fail just so you could just feel comfortable again, because-

Tulsi Gabbard 35:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:35 ... then you- you don't have to-

Tulsi Gabbard 35:37 There's no pressure.

Joe Rogan 35:37 Yeah, you don't have to deal with the pressure.

Tulsi Gabbard 35:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:40 It's scary. The- the human mind is so susceptible to so many different things, whether it's cults or addictions or, uh, uh, you know? I mean, we're very weirdly vulnerable to a lot of, like, very strange things.

Tulsi Gabbard 35:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:55 And-... a lot of these things, I, I think, uh, a lot of the mental issues are accentuated by social media.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:01 I think, um, that they're, they exacerbate them badly.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:05 And a lot of... I think there's a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill people that are just killing themselves by being online all the time.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:12 Yeah. I believe it.

Joe Rogan 36:13 I really do. I think it's terrible for you.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:16 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's so easy to get sucked into it.

Joe Rogan 36:18 It's so easy. And people that are, like, arguing with people constantly online.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:22 Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Like, my God, you, what a w- terrible waste of time.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:25 Yeah. When, when that becomes your reality-

Joe Rogan 36:28 Which-

Tulsi Gabbard 36:28 ... dealing with people and perceptions and, you know, measuring yourself-

Joe Rogan 36:32 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:32 ... against whatever you're seeing and, and all of it, and, and you, you slip out of the real world in building real relationships and friendships and having real conversations.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Yeah. The, the, the comparing, too. The comparing-

Tulsi Gabbard 36:44 Yep.

Joe Rogan 36:44 ... is something that you and I didn't have to grow up with.

Tulsi Gabbard 36:46 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 36:46 And we're very, very fortunate, because especially, um, young girls today, and Jonathan Haidt's work on this is, uh, been really interesting. His book, uh, The Coddling of the American Mind is a great one, and it's all about what you could see, like, exactly when social media is invented, all this self-harm and all the suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation, and suicide all goes up for girls.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:11 And it's comparing themselves.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:12 Doesn't surprise me.

Joe Rogan 37:13 Yeah. It's-

Tulsi Gabbard 37:14 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 37:14 It's s- such a bizarre thing that a person can get super-duper famous just dancing-

Tulsi Gabbard 37:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:21 ... on an app that goes online, and then they make millions of dollars-

Tulsi Gabbard 37:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:25 ... and they're, like, your age.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:26 And you're like, "What's wrong with me?"

Tulsi Gabbard 37:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:29 "I am a los- You can't just-"

Tulsi Gabbard 37:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:30 "... live your life and b- hang out with your friends."

Tulsi Gabbard 37:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:32 Everyone is in constant comparison with impossible people that shouldn't even exist.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:38 And then you, and then you add in the, the layer of AI onto that-

Joe Rogan 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:42 ... where you have complete, uh, you've got videos and pictures of people who are a digital c- construct. Uh, and-

Joe Rogan 37:49 Not just that. People are paying to talk to them.

Tulsi Gabbard 37:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:52 There's this guy they found this, th- they were doing this study on AI girlfriends, where people have, like, interactions with AI. This guy was spending $10,000 a month on this-

Tulsi Gabbard 38:01 Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 38:02 ... AI girlfriend.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:03 Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 38:05 ISIS could get that guy. They just gotta find him.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:07 If they just find that guy, they can talk that guy into anything.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:09 If you're willing to get-

Tulsi Gabbard 38:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:11 (laughs) ... if you're gonna get an AI girlfriend 10,000 bucks a month, y- yeah, you'll join the Moonies. You'll, you'll be an-

Tulsi Gabbard 38:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:18 Whatever comes along grabs you, son. You're vulnerable.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:22 They'll get you.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:23 But that's, you know, you look at what's happening on, on college campuses across the country right now.

Joe Rogan 38:28 Mm-hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:28 It, it speaks exactly to that, that, that vulnerability of, of being manipulated or, uh, you know, sold an ideology, and then-

Joe Rogan 38:39 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:39 ... grabbing onto it, um, as, as though you, you now have a sense of purpose.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Yeah. The, that's the problem. The sense of purpose is, like, so attractive to people that... There's so many kids that wanna be, like, so righteous, and they just wanna, like, criticize and yell at other people who don't feel the same way they do.

Tulsi Gabbard 38:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:59 And so it... Like, you're seeing these Israel versus Palestine things on school campuses, I'm like, "My God." Which brings me to... This is an interesting thought. Like, what are your, what's your opinion on this potential TikTok ban?

Tulsi Gabbard 39:19 Uh, I oppose it. I oppose it on the grounds of, of free speech and civil liberties. You know, this is, uh, speaking of fomenting fear, this is one of those, um, pieces of legislation that's, you know, if, if you just read the talking points for those who support it, and it's supported by many people in Congress on both sides of the aisle, um, y- you think like, "Oh, my gosh, we've got a national security risk, and you've got concern for our kids and all of this other stuff." But when you actually read the language and understand the implications of what this legislation does, it's not really about TikTok at all. It's about government being able to choose, uh, what platforms are acceptable and what are not, and what we, as Americans, are able to either get information from or put information out. And then you look at, okay, well, if they're giving themselves that authority, how will it then be enforced? Then you get into the civil liberties concern of the Fourth Amendment of government overreach and trying to figure out, okay, well, now I'm gonna have to look into your phone and figure out if you're the guy who's using the VPN to illegally download this app. Then you're looking at, uh, you know, the, the, the designation is that if you have, uh, 20% or more, uh, ownership stake or stake in a business that has been designated, um, by our government to be illegal because of its association with a, a, a foreign adversary, there are a few countries listed there, but the President would have the power to designate any other country a foreign adversary without any kind of, you know... Congress wouldn't have to take action. It's, it's a, it's a unilateral move. Uh, you are also implicated if you are someone who the government determines to be influenced by or connected with one of these countries that is a foreign adversary. And so, you know, Elon Musk has talked about this, it is not outside of the realm of, of the, the, um, n- not only possible, but the probable, that if they wanted to say, "Okay, well, you know, Elon Musk is doing business with this country that we don't like, and, oh, he also owns this platform called X, X should be shut down because of this association." Uh, the, the r- I think Ron Paul said it best when he said that this legislation is the most, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, "It's the most egregious violation of civil liberty since the Patriot Act was passed in the wake of 9/11." And when you look at the arguments that are being made around both of those pushes, they are, they are very eerily similar in invoking national security concerns. And the language and the way that's written...... is intentionally vague that puts far more power into the hands of the Executive Branch, just like the Patriot Act did, to single-handedly say, "Well, this is a good guy and this is a bad guy." And that has a direct implication on Americans.

Joe Rogan 42:28 And, uh, w- wasn't there another recent thing that passed that allows more observation of people through cell phones?

Tulsi Gabbard 42:37 Yes. Yes. And then s- both of these things were actually wrapped up into that, that same bill that just passed through.

Joe Rogan 42:45 It was the same bill?

Tulsi Gabbard 42:45 They lumped together a whole bunch of different things. They were, they were separate previously. But, uh, the thing that the TikTok ban was lumped together with was the bill that would reinstate or extend the, um, FISA authorities, the Foreign Intelligence Security Act authorities, for another two years. Um, section 702 of FISA gives our government the authority to, um, surveil foreign actors, essentially, to try to identify terrorist threats. But part of that is they have the ability to capture all of the conversations. If you talk to somebody in another country that they're interested in, they can then go in and capture all of your information as an American citizen, and they can do this without a warrant. This has been in place for quite some time, uh, but this legislation that was just passed recently expanded those authorities so they can go and actually look at, like, your, your WiFi, uh, history. If you're connected to WiFi, they can look at everything that you did connected to that WiFi signal and, and in some other ways. It's, it's ... O- it took an already bad problem and made it many, many times worse. And again, they're just saying, "Well, it's for national security." The problem here is-

Joe Rogan 44:05 That's the, that's the thing they always say though.

Tulsi Gabbard 44:06 They, that's the thing they always say. And, and it's like ... You know, the, the ... I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said if, if, you know, um, "If you are choosing security over liberty, you will neither be secure nor will you have liberty." Um, that's not an actual quote, but th- that's basically-

Joe Rogan 44:25 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 44:25 ... the point here, and that's the false choice that so many of these politicians are f- are forcing on the American people, is-

Joe Rogan 44:30 Right.

Tulsi Gabbard 44:31 ... you can either be less free and more safe, or you can be more free and, oh, by the way, you're gonna invite more terrorist attacks or more national security, uh, incursions on our country. And it's just, it's just BS. It is BS.

Joe Rogan 44:47 It's also very un-American.

Tulsi Gabbard 44:49 It is.

Joe Rogan 44:49 And here's the problem with government overreach. The government is just people.

Tulsi Gabbard 44:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:56 That's the problem. Like, you know, if, if you thought of them as something other than a three-letter name, like DEA, CIA, NSA, just a bunch of people-

Tulsi Gabbard 45:08 Yep.

Joe Rogan 45:09 ... you would go, "Well, why is this like the DEA? Why is this 10,000 people telling all these other people what to do?" That sounds crazy.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:15 There's way more of them than there are of us. If we was just in this room, and, uh, Jamie turns out to be the cop and, uh, he says, "Hey, uh, I'm gonna put you two in prison because, uh, I heard you like hemp."

Tulsi Gabbard 45:26 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:27 (laughs) You're like, we'd be like, "Jamie, fuck off."

Tulsi Gabbard 45:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:29 That's crazy. But if, if it's a government agency with a three-letter name, you're like, "Oh, well, this is the government. It's the gover-"

Tulsi Gabbard 45:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:36 But the government is just human beings.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:38 And there's just a natural inclination that people in power have is to try to gain more power.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Rich people wanna get richer. Hot people wanna get hotter.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:47 (laughs) Like, that's what it is, you know? It's like-

Tulsi Gabbard 45:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:49 ... everybody wants to improve.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:51 And the governments, they're in the business of telling you what to do, and they wanna be better at that business.

Tulsi Gabbard 45:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:56 And the best way is to be able to, like, constantly be ab- able to surveil everything you say and do.

Tulsi Gabbard 46:02 Right. And, and again, it, it goes-

Joe Rogan 46:04 We shouldn't let 'em.

Tulsi Gabbard 46:05 No. And, and this is the problem, this is the problem is that, you know, every elected official t- swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Yet, as we saw with this most recent example, they are so ready to, uh, undermine our Fourth Amendment rights in the Constitution in the name of national security. And I know some of them are doing it with, with good intention, but with, without actually considering that the challenge and responsibility of those in government and those who have this power is to strike that correct balance between ensuring that our liberties and our constitutional rights are protected. You, you swear an oath to do this.

Joe Rogan 46:45 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 46:45 When you, when you take this job, while also ensuring, "Okay, well, we can do both and we must do both." We can be safe and secure and also be able to live free without worrying about every time you pick up your phone or you make a phone call wondering if the government is surveilling us. And then you, you add onto that what's happening now where, you know, like January 6th, for example, I was working out in the gym, uh, Marine Corps gym in Hawaii down the street from our house, bumped into a guy who I met ... Uh, it's a long story, but I met him when, uh, The Rock's stunt double was getting his traditional Samoan tattoo. And it's a whole ceremony. It was a seven-day thing. And so this other guy is Samoan. We met and became friends. So I saw him in the gym and he's with his 14-year-old son. "How's it going," this and that. And he's like, "Oh, the FBI just came to my house out in Laie, uh, small rural community on the island of Oahu." I was like, "What's going on?" He's like, "Yeah, they came and knocked on my door because," he said, "I took my son to go and witness democracy." So they were part of those thousands of people who were out there on the lawn of the Capitol. And they, they didn't arrest him, they didn't charge him with anything.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Wow.

Tulsi Gabbard 47:55 But, but how is it, how is it that, you know, years later, years later, they go and find this guy and his family in a rural Mormon community in Laie, in Hawaii, they're capturing all of the data of people whose, whose cell phones were pinging within the v- that vicinity-

Joe Rogan 48:14 Yes.

Tulsi Gabbard 48:15 ... uh, during that period of time, not only on January 6? And they are continuing to widen that net, looking at flight records and who bought tickets and who booked hotels and, and all of this stuff. For what?You're gonna go, the FBI's gonna go and investigate people who showed up there on the lawn, on the Capitol? Uh, you look at what they're... And this is, this is my thing.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Scare tactics.

Tulsi Gabbard 48:37 It's- it's, it is absolutely scare tactics. So, when we look at the power of the government and how they're now turning on the American people, for political reasons, we can see where even the best of intentions with some of these pieces of legislation can lead to the very worst places. What to speak of the fact that we have limited resource and limited people.

Joe Rogan 49:02 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 49:02 What are they not investigating? You talked about the DEA. What, uh, what about the FBI and all these millions of people who are coming across our border? Uh, are- are they tracking who they are? No, they're not. Are they tracking where they're going? No, they're not. We have no idea. People coming from the Middle East and Asia and Eastern Europe and Venezuela, gang members. Like, all of this stuff is happening right before our very eyes, and they're going and knocking on my friend's door in Laitier because he brought his 14-year-old son to Washington, DC that week?

Joe Rogan 49:30 And here's the question. Um, was the FBI there? How many w- how many people were there? And how come they don't have to answer that?

Tulsi Gabbard 49:38 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 49:38 They don't say.

Tulsi Gabbard 49:40 Why not be transparent?

Joe Rogan 49:41 Also, they should be there. Like, uh, uh, the government should be there in case some shit goes sideways.

Tulsi Gabbard 49:47 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 49:47 Right? That's, um, so I'm sure they're there. But are some of the agents not good? Just like some dentists suck.

Tulsi Gabbard 49:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:55 Are some of the agents not good? And are some of the agents encouraging people to go in? Because that could be true too, because if we look at what happened with the Governor of, uh, Michigan.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:08 Right?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:08 Was it Michigan?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 50:09 Or Minnesota?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:09 Michigan.

Joe Rogan 50:11 Michigan. That story is bonkers.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:13 It is.

Joe Rogan 50:14 When you find ... What was it, like 11 of the people involved in the kidnapping scheme were FBI informants?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:20 What?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:21 And these two dopes who just like ... just dumbasses, like 80 IQ dumbasses.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:26 That just get tricked into this fucking ... They're cosplay and they go, "We're gonna kidnap her."

Tulsi Gabbard 50:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:30 "Definitely. We're gonna fucking get liberty, don't ..." They don't know what they're doing.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:34 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:34 They're stupid.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:36 And those poor fucks have to go to jail.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:38 Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 50:38 And the whole thing was scheduled and set up by FBI informants. Like, that seems crazy. Aren't there real problems? Instead of like creating-

Tulsi Gabbard 50:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:48 ... problems and then arresting people for those problems, aren't there real problems going on? And if there's not, like you guys good at your job?

Tulsi Gabbard 50:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:56 Like (laughs) we're trusting you.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:57 And there are. Like, you know-

Joe Rogan 50:58 For sure.

Tulsi Gabbard 50:59 ... I, I, I know some great FBI agents, and there are people who are doing, who are doing good work.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Absolutely.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:04 The, the problem-

Joe Rogan 51:04 I've met great FBI agents.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:06 Phenomenal.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Nice people.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:07 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Good people. Patriots.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:09 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 51:09 But they're like dentists. Some of them are great.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:12 They're, y- this is so-

Joe Rogan 51:13 Some of them suck.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:13 I mean, it's just, you know, it's, it's, you know, you can say the same thing-

Joe Rogan 51:15 Humans.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:15 ... with militaries and law enforcement.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Everything.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:17 Like, you, yes.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Yes.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:18 You are going to find those few, for sure. They are there. But, but with, um ... So, I've talked to different people in the FBI, and what they've shared is that there's kind of like a bifurcation in the agency, where there are people who are really, really angry and frustrated about the politicization of the FBI that's occurring by the heads. Um, and then there are others who are just like, "Full send. We're on board. Let's go."

Joe Rogan 51:46 Hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 51:46 Uh, and it's, it's creating a lot of friction and a lot of fear within the agency. Um, I don't know if the agents have people get confused with that's the CIO. There's prob- probably, uh, some similar things going on there, but within the FBI, a lot of fear that, uh, you gotta watch what you say around even your own colleagues and your own peers, because there are people who are on different sides, which is horrible. Like, you are on the side of America.

Joe Rogan 52:13 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:13 You are on the side of the American people and upholding the rule of law and, and securing our country and going after the bad guys. Well, when the bad guys now become your neighbor down the street, we're, we're in a very different, uh, realm, a dangerous one.

Joe Rogan 52:29 It's just how it is with people. Red Sox fans hate Yankee fans.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:35 Just like (laughs) they're in the same country.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:38 You're gonna have conflict even inside the FBI. You're gonna have conflict in every group. You're gonna have power struggles. You know, you're either with Bob or you're not.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:45 If you wanna make it in this business, you wanna get to the top of this agency-

Tulsi Gabbard 52:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:49 ... you gotta stay with Bob, and Bob's fucking calling the shots. I'm on team Bob.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:53 You know, like fuck Mike.

Tulsi Gabbard 52:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:54 And then that's what happens with people. It ha- it happens in everything, and you have people that are, that go in with good intentions, and they get corrupted by systems that are corrupt.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:03 That's where for, for the, you know, ac- across, whether it's the FBI, the Department of Justice, all of these, it matters, you know, who, who's in charge.

Joe Rogan 53:11 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:12 These are all civilian-led organizations. Uh, they are political appointees. And, you know, in, in theory, they are the people who should be held accountable, but they are setting that tone.

Joe Rogan 53:24 Did you hear what AOC said? She said the people that have stro- that are coming into this country, that most of them, it's because of climate change.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:32 I didn't hear that one. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:35 It's amazing. It is straight outta South Park.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:37 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 53:38 It's straight outta South Park.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 53:40 Like, what?

Tulsi Gabbard 53:41 Yeah, I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:42 (laughs) Oh, that's the only reason?

Tulsi Gabbard 53:43 I'm like waiting, like, oh. Like are-

Joe Rogan 53:45 Oh, that's the reason.

Tulsi Gabbard 53:45 Is there more?

Joe Rogan 53:46 Is the climate change more than I know? You, do you, do you know something I don't know? Like, what are you saying?

Tulsi Gabbard 53:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:52 What's going on down there?

Tulsi Gabbard 53:53 The best are those, those clips. I just saw one on, uh, Instagram the other day from like 1985, where a newscaster is ... I think it might even have been black and white, and she's saying the, the climate change scientists tell us that we may only have 10 years before the Earth is destroyed. 1992 is gonna be the year.

Joe Rogan 54:14 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 54:14 And then whoever made this clip, they juxtaposed her clip with one from, uh, uh, Bernie Sanders saying the exact same thing with a different date, you know, how many decades later.

Joe Rogan 54:26 And the problem is...... when you fearmonger, you distract people from the real issue.

Tulsi Gabbard 54:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Like, what is really going on? Like, how bad are we fucking up the planet, you know?

Tulsi Gabbard 54:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:37 Here's one that doesn't get discussed enough. We've killed everything in the ocean.

Tulsi Gabbard 54:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:42 The, the ocean is depleted. W- what was the number, Jamie? Like, 90% of the big fish are gone.

Tulsi Gabbard 54:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Some crazy number like that, because of just... U- u- just imagine how psychotic it is to have a, a species that goes into another dimension-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:03 ... that it's not a resident of and uses nets-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:07 ... and just takes everything-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:09 ... it can get, and catches a bunch of dolphins and shit in there-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:11 Right, exactly.

Joe Rogan 55:11 ... that it doesn't want anyway, and they all die.

Tulsi Gabbard 55:13 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 55:14 A new global study concludes that 90% of all large fishes have disappeared from the world's oceans in the past half century, in 50 years. So, that's a-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:25 90%.

Joe Rogan 55:25 ... cataclysm. That's a disaster of epic proportion-

Tulsi Gabbard 55:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:30 ... when it comes to, like, ecology and when it comes to the just... the, the, the environment of the world itself.

Tulsi Gabbard 55:37 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 55:37 We're killing most... 'cause we like sushi.

Tulsi Gabbard 55:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:40 We're killing, we're killing most of what's in the ocean. It's bananas.

Tulsi Gabbard 55:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 And so that is getting ignored, because everyone is t- talking about fossil fuels. And, uh, I wonder how much of this is pushed by foreign countries through social media, because there is a thing that you can do and nudge conversations in a certain way with bots and with fake statistics and with fearmongering.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:08 And meanwhile, China is opening hundreds of new coal power plants.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:13 They're, they're, they're doubling down on coal.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:16 And I think, through TikTok and through probably Facebook and YouTube and all these different things, and Instagram, I'm sure, there's countless bots that are putting out videos and pushing narratives and finding a way into your algorithm, and they affect the way people think about things. And guess what? If you go to Chinese TikTok, it's all academic accomplishments-

Tulsi Gabbard 56:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:40 ... martial arts demonstrations-

Tulsi Gabbard 56:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:42 ... science achievements, and you can't go on after 10:00 PM.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:45 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:47 (laughs) And even in America, it's dudes with fake eyelashes-

Tulsi Gabbard 56:50 It's the Wild West.

Joe Rogan 56:50 ... reading stories to toddlers.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:52 Uh-huh. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 56:52 And it's everybody telling you the ocean's gonna boil.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:55 It's weird. It's Os- Osama bin Laden's Letter to America.

Tulsi Gabbard 56:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:59 The Letter to America thing was wild, too. Everybody's like, "Wow, you know, Osama bin Laden had a point." (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 57:03 Oh my gosh. That, that's... I, I had a dinner the other night with, with a, a, a family. It was, it was, uh, during the holiday of Passover, and this, this question came up about, uh, what would happen if another 9/11-style terrorist attack or some major, um, incident like that came up in our country today? Would it have that same kind of unifying effect that occurred after that attack on 9/11? And when you look at things like that, like the Osama bin Laden letter, and you look at, uh, how there, there is... I mean, there, there's an entire... not an entire generation, but there's a, a lot of people now who I wouldn't be surprised if they said, "Well, you know, such an attack was justified," and, and not have that same kind of sense of unity of like, "Hey, no matter our differences, we got to stand together as Americans." And that's a, that's a... that should be a serious concern.

Joe Rogan 58:06 It's... it should be a serious concern also when you really take into consideration how many genuinely dumb people there are and when you have a situation like October 7th in Israel. I saw, within days before Israel did what they did in Palestine, within days, I saw people justifying the attacks on October 7th-

Tulsi Gabbard 58:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:27 ... because of the treatment that Israel has given to the Palestinians. I'm like, "Hey, that's crazy."

Tulsi Gabbard 58:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:32 "That's crazy." That's crazy to say that you think people should be indiscriminately shot-

Tulsi Gabbard 58:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:37 ... and killed and just en masse at a, at a fucking rave, like paratrooping.

Tulsi Gabbard 58:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:42 You think that's okay-

Tulsi Gabbard 58:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:43 ... because of what Israel's done? But guess what? Those people didn't do that.

Tulsi Gabbard 58:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Those people at the rave and those people that are on the border, those are apparently, according to Ari, those are the, the hippies.

Tulsi Gabbard 58:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:52 They're the ones who want to be... They're, they're the ones who don't believe that we should be there.

Tulsi Gabbard 58:55 Don't believe in borders.

Joe Rogan 58:56 Yeah, they don't believe in borders.

Tulsi Gabbard 58:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 58:57 Th- they want to be close to the Palestinians, which is-

Tulsi Gabbard 58:59 Right. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 59:01 T- t-

Tulsi Gabbard 59:01 And that, that's where, you know, some of the things that they're chanting at, at, uh... that these protesters are chanting at Columbia University-

Joe Rogan 59:07 Yes.

Tulsi Gabbard 59:07 ... and some of the other ones, "We hope that October 7th happens 10,000 times over," they say.

Joe Rogan 59:12 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 59:12 You know, celebrating Hamas, this Islamist terrorist organization. It, it's... it is. It's, it's, um... you know, I, I, I don't, I don't think we can just dismiss them as just being stupid. You know what I mean? Like, these kids are going to Ivy League schools. They are, they are being absolutely manipulated, and there is, there is a very intentional ideological war that is being waged in this example by these radical Islamist groups, like Hamas, and they had planned this. They've been doing this for hundreds of years, and they're using technology, and they're using other means to be able to, to achieve that end.

Joe Rogan 59:49 No doubt, as is Russia, as is China. They've infiltrated universities. You know, the, the famous Yuri Bezmenov speech from 1984-

Tulsi Gabbard 59:58 Wow.

Joe Rogan 59:58 ... you know, which is crazy when you hear it today, because he called it. He knew it was gonna happen-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 ... and it's happening, and it's happening from college campuses outward. So, the most radical of these ideologies are being promoted on colleges, because the kids are the youngest. They don't have jobs and real-world experience. They don't have... they don't, they don't... they're young. Th- they have ideologies.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 They're, they're a, a little bit unrealistic, and they're all captured by this status game that's going on on-campus-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 ... where you're trying to be the most radical, like, "Oh, he's so radically pro-Palestine. He's so hot."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 You know?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 And then that really becomes a thing. You become virtuous, and-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 ... you, you become attractive. You become interesting without actually being interesting-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 ... just because you have this rabid...... adherence to an ideology that's right now i- in vogue. And that's really what it is. And I think a lot of that is funded by foreign governments. And, uh, s- there's a lot of evidence that points to it, and we should consider it as a possibility. And don't dismiss it as a conspiracy theory.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:00:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Consider it as a possibility. And so, this is a question about things like TikTok, like, and, and Twitter and all of 'em, all of 'em. 'Cause I guarantee you, it's not just foreign countries, kids. I guarantee you. There are people in this country that are using it.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 I know businesses do it.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 I n- I guarantee you, people do it to try to influence the way people think about things. And, uh, when you see posts ... I've seen posts m- multiple times saying, uh, ar- outrageous things, and I'll just, "Okay, let me click on this guy." And it's, like, usually some letters and the-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 ... numbers, and a name-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 ... maybe, and a bunch of numbers. And then I click and I realize, "Oh, fake person."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:38 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 Just go through all this stuff.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:40 Zero posts. Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 Yeah, it's all just retweeting, uh, inflammatory stuff, and it's just nutty, fucking crazy politic takes, and, like, really aggressive takes on things.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 And like, "Wow."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 How many of them are there?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:01:54 Yeah. I, there, there's, there's no, there's no question that this is happening. And, and the social media algorithms are feeding it and playing, playing right into it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:04 A- a- and our attention and our minds are the commodity.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 100%. And if they can just trick you into buying some stuff along the way, that'd be great. (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:13 Exactly. (laughs)

Narrator 1:02:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Who ever thought-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:15 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 ... that your data would be so valuable?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 That's the thing about when, like, you and I were younger, it meant nothing. Your data meant nothing. Like, nobody ... "What is, what are you talking about, my data?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:24 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 "What are you talking about, my data?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 "What's, what is i?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:27 (laughs) Why would anybody-

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 You know?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:29 ... be interested in that? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 I remember my first inclination that data meant something was, uh, I bought Dianetics. I bought that book-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 ... in, like, 1994 when it first-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... moved to Hollywood. And Scientology never stopped sending me things.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 They never stopped.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:42 Like, "We got one."

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 Yeah, they... I was like, "Oh, that's how they get you."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 And then they get you to join. I guess you have to give them a piece, give them a taste-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:51 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 ... of what you're doing. You've joined the group.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:02:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 Yeah, and so data now is responsible for the largest corporations in terms of, like, the amount of money.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 Like, think about Apple, how big Apple is and how much data Apple has.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 And Apple's better at, with data than Android systems are, and Google's terrible with it.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Like, with their ... It's just like, they're just siphoning off of data.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:13 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 It's just a big-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:13 And that, that's the fallacy, and that's, that's kind of the, the falsehood w- uh, of the argument who are, for people who are pushing that TikTok ban bill, is if they're claiming they're concerned about data security and privacy and making sure that our data is protected, um, you gotta do it across the board.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 Yes.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:31 Because every single one of these social media or big tech company is collecting as much as they possibly can. And if you think they're not selling it, uh, to the highest bidder, whether they be an, an American company or a foreign company, of course they are. This is their b- th- this is their business model.

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 Wasn't there some controversy about e- one of the DNA companies, whether it's Ancestry or one of the other ones?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:54 There was.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 (clears throat) Where they, they sold-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:56 I don't remember which-

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 ... their data to China? (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:58 I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Which is like-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:03:59 I don't remember which one.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 You sold everybody's genes?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Like, I didn't know-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 ... you could do that.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:05 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 I wouldn't have signed up for that.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 You could sell my genes to China. Like, if China was, like, offering free DNA tests-

Narrator 1:04:12 No, it wasn't China.

Joe Rogan 1:04:13 Was it?

Narrator 1:04:13 No, it wasn't. They didn't sell it to China.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Who'd they sell it to?

Narrator 1:04:15 Uh, GlaxoSmithKline.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:18 Big pharma. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Oh. That's even scarier.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:21 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 And who do they sell it to? They could sell it to anybody else too, right?

Narrator 1:04:24 It says 23andMe sells anonymous DNA data-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:26 Oh, my gosh.

Narrator 1:04:26 ... to a drug company for 20 million.

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 Beh. (laughs)

Narrator 1:04:28 That's not even that much.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:29 It's not that much.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Oh, it's just anonymous, guys. It's anonymous.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:32 Yeah, of course.

Narrator 1:04:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Guys.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:33 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Wasn't there one with China, though, with Ancestry?

Narrator 1:04:37 I mean, this is-

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Yeah, Goo-Goo-

Narrator 1:04:38 This is An-

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 This is 23andMe.

Narrator 1:04:39 No, this is Ancestry also.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 This is Ancestry as well?

Narrator 1:04:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 Uh, interesting.

Narrator 1:04:44 I mean, it's all conspired.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:44 $20 million.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 See, just-

Narrator 1:04:46 I would, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:04:46 ... I remember something about China.

Narrator 1:04:48 I mean, I just typed in data sold and that's what comes up.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 I might be on the wrong forum still. I might be on some conspiratorial forums.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:04:57 (laughs)

Narrator 1:04:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 (laughs) I might have gone too deep-

Narrator 1:04:59 Now, it says-

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 ... on the JFK rabbit hole the other night.

Narrator 1:05:00 This is what you said.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 Oh, okay, China. There it goes.

Narrator 1:05:04 It's the same company.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 "Uh, groundbreaking move that has sent shockwaves through the biotech industry. 23andMe, the leading personal g- genomics and biotechnology companies officially announced the sale of its entire DNA database to the Chinese government for an astonishing $10 billion."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:05:19 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Yeah, so that's the one I was looking for.

Narrator 1:05:22 But I'll just add that that's only coming f- from a Medium article, not any other articles that are saying that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Jamie, why you gotta fuck it up with facts?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:05:31 (laughs)

Narrator 1:05:31 I'm just-

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Fuck it up with facts. (laughs)

Narrator 1:05:31 ... trying to understand what's happening. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 (laughs)

Narrator 1:05:35 I don't know the-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:05:36 Jamie is on it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 Why you gotta fuck it up with facts? Yeah, who knows? But i- but your data is extremely valuable.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:05:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 And that's weird. And it's also valuable to humans. It's humans selling other humans' data, whether you call them Facebook or Google or the DEA or the FB- it's just a bunch of people. And if they don't have to follow the same rules that you follow, then we have real problems. And when you have entire groups of people that are dependent upon technology that's controlled almost entirely by one ideology, (sighs) and then you let the government get involved like they did with Twitter-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:13 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 ... and then you see with the, the Twitter files, you're like, "Oh Jesus." Like,-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:16 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 ... this is bad.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:17 Like, y- you let the government have a backdoor and they started sneaking around and telling you what to do and what not to do and you were complying?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 People-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 ... were telling other people that they couldn't have experts from Harvard and Stanford talk about medical problems.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 You gotta s- stop this.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Stop those es- e- experts from talking. Remove those posts. Ban those people. Like, uh, that, the g-... into seeing that.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:45 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:06:46 And-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:46 Exactly. And even-

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:47 ... if they're not, even if they're not saying, "Hey, do this or else," even if they're not making an explicit threat-

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Just the fact-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:53 What-

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 ... you're getting requests from the government-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:55 Exactly. Like, what are-

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 ... to do something like that.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:06:56 ... what would you, like, what are you gonna do? The FBI is calling and saying, like, "Hey, we'd really like you to do X, Y, or Z." In my mind, I'd be like, "Okay."

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 Okay. Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:04 Like, what am I gonna be investigated for outside of this if I say no? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 Also-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:09 What are the consequences gonna be?

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 ... if you're a person working at Twitter, right? This is not you. They're not investigating you. They're investigating someone else, right? So if they're-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 ... going in, they're talking about these posts, like-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 ... "Hey, this expert is spreading misinformation." And this is, like they're- they're causing vaccine hesitancy-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 ... or whatever they're causing. "We need to g- stop this, put a stop to this." Like, why is the government being involved in a dispute between doctors and the pharmaceutical drug companies?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:40 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Like, what are you doing?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 And how do you know? Did you guys adjudicate this? Did you guys get in front of a court? Did you guys get in front of experts? Did people testify? Did you have someone who's pro and con this, someone who lays out this argument?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 Did you examine this? No, no, no, you didn't. They just contacted Twitter-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:07:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 ... and Twitter said okay. Because what are they gonna do? They're fucking executives. They're- they're... If you're working at Twitter, and it's old Twitter, and you're like super woke.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 And, you know, you've just been drinking lattes and going into the meditation room. Then all of a sudden, you get an email from the FBI. You're like-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 ... "I don't wanna fuck up this job. I got a cushy job."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 And you're like, "Okay. What do I have to do?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 "Okay, I'll do that."

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:19 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 And so you do that. And that's not good. It's not good to have that kind of power being wielded by other people. They're just people.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 You could call them the FBI, you can call them the DA. They're- they're human beings.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 And human beings that have that kind of power over other human beings in a country that's supposed to value freedom-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 ... that-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:40 That's the thing.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 ... in and of itself is un-American.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:08:44 And that- that's where this isn't just, like some rogue FBI agent doing this, or some rogue, uh, you know, bureaucrat in an agency who's going and doing this. This is an expressed policy coming from the Biden administration, in this example, uh, to go and silent- u- use- use big tech to silence certain people's voices and to decide who- who- who does the government want to be heard and who needs to be silenced. And obviously, there, we could talk all day about the cozy relationship that many politicians have with big pharma. And it- it, you know, it's not a surprise that they're going to act in favor of big pharma rather than in favor of the truth or free speech or people's health and well-being. But the fact that this was and is the Biden administration's policy to decide that they are the arbiter of what is misinformation, disinformation, what is information, what is true and what is not, and that they will use the tools available to them, both within the government, as well as outside of the government, in the case of big tech and social media, to be able to enforce that. And that's-

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:09:53 ... that's- that's really the... You know, for people who aren't paying attention to this stuff at home and are just trying to live their lives and, you know, go to work and take care of their kids and- and just live their life, um, it's easy to fall victim to, like, "Well, the government wants what's best for us. And they don't want us to be manipulated by misinformation or disinformation." And- and so this is the line that they use. Like, "We're doing this for you. We're trying to protect you. So once again, we're gonna take away some of your freedom and some of your privacy, uh, a- and tell you what it, you know, who you should be listening to and what information, uh, you should be getting."

Joe Rogan 1:10:29 The king knows-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:30 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 The king will tell the people how to live.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:36 Yes, and this is-

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 This is how you wash.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:37 This is coming from the same people-

Joe Rogan 1:10:39 Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:39 ... who are telling us that boys can become girls-

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 Yes.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:42 ... on any day of the week because they feel like it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 Yeah, and Rachel-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:44 Just-

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 ... Levine is the first female admiral.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:46 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 Yay.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:47 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 Women win.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 (laughs)

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:50 Which is insa- And they- then they stand there and say, "Well, we are the champions for women."

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 Mm-hmm.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:10:55 If- if they cannot even accept objective truth.

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 We're living in the strangest of strange times.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:01 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 And I- I also think that a lot of that stuff is being accentuated by social media, manipulated intentionally, because I think if you can just get those narratives out there enough, that affects the gullible people, that affects sensitive people, that affects people on the spectrum, it affects a lot of people. And then they start getting rewarded for leaning into one type of ideology or an-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:24 And then it's affecting people. We are affected by our environment.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:28 And to pretend otherwise is just silly, especially when you're talking about young people. Young people are particularly susceptible to propaganda, which is why they have young people wear suicide vests.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 That's why.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:42 You can't get a 50-year-old agnostic dude to wear a fucking suicide vest. You know, he's gonna go, "What am I gonna get-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 ... when I blow up? I'm gonna go to heaven?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 "Can you show me? Have you got a video? Is there a YouTube video I can watch?"

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 Like, what- what are you sh- what are you saying?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:11:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 But you could talk a five-year-old into it, and that's what they do, and that's sick.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:12:00 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 And it's just as sick to try to, like, indoctrinate them into these crazy ideologies, because it- it's just people want other people to join their fucking team.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:12:11 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:12:11 And it's- it's a common thing that people do.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:12:13 That's what's so concerning about, uh, like w- we're- we are seeing the fruits of the shift in our education system away from actually teaching about the Constitution and, you know, the- the- the founding documents and The Federalist Papers and the thought process behind, uh, that- that went into forming the Constitution and- and the Bill of Rights in our schools. Basic- basic government, basic 101 on what is this country really about? What is the foundation that we were built upon? And what does it mean to you in your- in your everyday life? And talking about the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment and going down the list, because that has been absent, largely, from our education system for so long, it- it- it-... uh, creates, again, this vulnerability of young people being susceptible. There is, they're- they're not rooted in an ideology of freedom, and what that means in our lives and why it's important and why we will fight and def- to, why we will fight to defend and protect it. And so then they're like, "Well, I don't know. Maybe- maybe what Hamas is offering, uh, is- is a- is a superior ideology or a superior value system than what we have here in America," which a lot of these kids are saying. Whether they realize fully what it is or not, they are- they are falling victim to that, uh, ideology, that radicalism as ideology, which would be completely oppressive in the lives that they- they are trying to live here.

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 Yeah. The- the whole proposal behind it is best highlighted by the meme, Queers for Palestine.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:13:50 Yes. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:50 And then Palestine for queers.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:13:52 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:52 (laughs) The difference between ... Like, that idea is so crazy.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:13:56 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:13:56 Like, what- what you're saying is so nuts.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:13:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:13:58 And it's just this fuck the system, fuck the government, fuck the patriarchy.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 It's this ideology that gets promoted that's, it's like frivolously wanting to destroy the foundation of this country.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:14:14 And they'll say it openly, "We wanna just stop colonialism." Okay, and then what? Then what happens?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 What do you have? What do you have? You have warlords?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 What are you gonna have? What's gonna run the country? How are you gonna run it? What are you gonna do with all the guns?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:25 Well, that's- that's where, you know, the- this ... Again, Hamas had this whole thing planned, like, you know, gaining the compassion and the sympathy of the world and-

Joe Rogan 1:14:35 How did they plan that? How did they think that they were gonna do that?

Tulsi Gabbard 1:14:39 That they knew how Israel would react, and they were ready with social media and then all of- all of the means of communication to play on the sympathies of people, the compassion and kindhearted people around the world, and, uh, turn people's attention away from the, it was 1,200 people that were murdered and killed and the people that were raped on that attack on October 7th. Their- their goal being ultimately to influence populations around the world towards this, uh, Islamist ideology that they want to govern the world under Islamic rule, under Sharia law. And we've seen already how it's been successful in some parts of the world, even in Europe. In France, somebody was saying that, um, I think it's 25% of France is, uh, already living under Sharia law. Uh, and so the- this- this ideological war that's being waged is not ... It's being- it's being waged by one side, and there's- there's not a counter-narrative, there's not a counter-war being waged on the other side to defeat it with the superior ideology of freedom-

Joe Rogan 1:15:53 So-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:15:53 ... and what we value as a society. And that- that puts this mission and this effort. And- and it's not just Hamas. Obviously, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, and the- uh, you know, uh, other terrorist organizations around the world. They all have that same- that same objective, which poses this- this great, uh, the greatest short and long-term threat to people who value freedom, uh, and- and to civilization.

Joe Rogan 1:16:17 And we're also so uniquely vulnerable in that we- we do have this sort of democracy, you know? It's- it's obviously heavily influenced by money. Um, but, and then with the open borders, so you have all these people funneling into the country, and so you have an erosion of confidence in our entire system because people are very aware of that.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:16:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:16:43 And the more people that are let out of jail after they commit violent crimes-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:16:46 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:16:46 ... the more people are aware of that. If you looked at the whole picture, e- all the things that are in play right now, particularly like with the open borders and giving people plane tickets and flying them to all these different cities, like, if I was gonna try to destroy the country, that's how I would do it. If I was gonna try to destroy the country, I would radicalize the kids. I would give them the- the stupidest ideas and- and run them in their head. Boys can be girls. Girls can be boys. Uh, boys can compete against girls in sports if they think they're a girl. Um, uh, Queers for Palestine, you know? Oh, the death to the Jews, yell it out.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:17:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:25 U- unironically-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:17:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:27 ... on campuses.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:17:28 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:28 And have the presidents of those colleges and universities defend it, which was wild.

Tulsi Gabbard 1:17:34 Completely.

Joe Rogan 1:17:34 With cameras on 'em. (laughs) Like, not even behind-

Tulsi Gabbard 1:17:35 Yeah. It shows how scared they