EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,048 words- 0:00 – 2:47
Columbo, old TV quirks, and why “justice at the end” sells
- NANarrator
(drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- CRChris Robinson
The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Especially like the first seasons, like 1972 or '3, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
Columbo, I almost forgot about that show. They were, they used to tell him not to smoke?
- CRChris Robinson
Well, no, like the character. I could tell they're probably just building up. Like, like you notice that he has a cigar in his hands-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
... the whole series, or every episode. But, but I, it's funny in 1972, people were like, "Please don't smoke in here." Or, or, "Mr. Columbo," or, "Lieutenant Columbo." He's always being, like, reprimanded for it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting. I forgot about that.
- CRChris Robinson
And he's always really, you know, Peter Falk's charact... He's always like, "Oh, oh, sorry." And he puts it out always. He's never like upset or anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he was... That was an interesting character, right? Because he was like this bumbling guy who was actually not. He was kind of setting you up the whole time, letting you underestimate him. Acting all... "Pa- pa- pardon me."
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"But another thing."
- CRChris Robinson
He's always about to leave-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
... but he's like, "Oh yeah." And he comes back and like hits the-
- JRJoe Rogan
And he's annoying people, and they're like, "Ugh." And then all of a sudden-
- CRChris Robinson
Incredible, though, uh, aesthetic. And like the other day I'm watching this episode that Jonathan Demme directed, Steven Spielberg. I mean, like all of these famous directors start to cut their teeth in TV and on episodic things like that, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- CRChris Robinson
There's a real tone to it and stuff that's cool, and the way everyone looked. But one other funny thing about it that I've noticed (laughs) in Columbo is there, always starts with a murder, and then... Usually, a l- a lot of times in the arc of the story, someone shows up to the crime scene, (clears throat) usually whoever did it or whatever, right? And so... But they're never upset. You know? (laughs) There's never someone who runs in, "What happened here?" "Your uncle's been murdered." "Oh, I didn't do it." You know? (laughs) Like it's kinda like how it starts instead of some dramatic, you know, like, "Oh my God," you know, "How could this have..." You know, no one's even f- They're just like, "Okay, uh, well, you're bothering me now." You know? In cop shows you can always tell police, even SVU, they're always like, "I've had enough. Can you guys leave?" And they leave. I'm like, is that how it goes? I- I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's weird how many of those shows there are where they catch the bad guy. Like that is, it's like something that I guess people with anxiety need to let them feel like if someone is a bad person and they do commit a murder, they're gonna get caught.
- CRChris Robinson
Like are the, are the interest in those kinda dark scenarios, you're only interested in them when there's justice at the end? Is that what you're saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh yeah, for sure.
- CRChris Robinson
Like, because anything nebulous or whatever is like, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
... too real maybe.
- 2:47 – 4:00
Quincy, punk panic, and growing up as real ‘outsiders’
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, there's those shows and then there's medical shows. Remember when there was, there was a time where there were like, every other fucking show on TV was about a hospital?
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And the only one that I really remember is Quincy. So Jack Klugman yelling at everyone all the... You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
He's yelling about the- the sandwich. He's yelling about the blood sample. He's...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
When we were kids, we were hardcore. We were in, you know, that initial phase of American kinda hardcore punk stuff, 'cause we had just missed out the like '77, '78, '79.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
And then there was an episode about the LA scene and they, and Quincy goes to the punk club, "Don't you see what you kids are doing to yourselves with the-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
"... loud music and the anger and the- the pills or whatever." You know, he like... And there was a thing when- when we were kids and there was this song, I forget which band did it, but if you were, you were fake if you were a Quincy punk, you know? 'Cause they took like the way people looked on Quincy or whatever, and that instantly became you're-
- JRJoe Rogan
A fake punker.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, yeah. You're bullshit now.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you started out, like what- what was the inspirations for your band? Like what were you guys into?
- 4:00 – 6:28
Family roots: a singer dad, folk songs at home, and music as altered space
- CRChris Robinson
I mean, it's- it's hard to untangle because my dad was a singer, so our dad was a singer. And he was very f... Well, my dad was kind of a strange guy in general. Um, a lovely guy, but dynamic to say the least. But he'd had like a- a hit in the late '50s called Booma Dip Dip, like a top 40 kinda record. And uh, and a couple subsequent sort of, you know, rock and roll singles when he was living in New York and stuff. And then when he... That kind of pales out and then he moves back to Atlanta and he immerses himself in like the folk music scene, and he was signed to a label called ABC-Paramount. So by the time I come along in '66, it's kind of, he's not doing it anymore. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
What was he doing?
- CRChris Robinson
He... Well shmata guy. He was in middleman. He was like Willy Loman, you know? He was in the garment business. My, hi- my grandfather, Ike Robinson, they were in children's wear, my dad was in women's wear, and then ended later back in children's wear. But the one thing around the house that I remember, earliest memories are him pulling out this- his guitar and singing folk songs. And just, I don't know, I w- I'm dyslexic person and, uh, so my... You know what I mean? So there was... I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but there was something about always singing these songs, it would like open up stuff for me. Almost like being high or in a- in a ps- in a, not in a psychedelic way, but in a way that it changed the space. You know what I mean? And records started doing that to me very early. And that kinda is where... So it's kinda n- We think it's normal. Other kids' dads aren't playing old folk songs at the house, that I know, you know. But by the time Rich and I, you know, were kinda like...... angst-ridden suburban youth, you know. For some reason my parents decided to move to the suburbs. Financial reasons, general apathy, uh, (laughs) you know? Ready to, you know, begin the mound of, uh, resentment and regret. I don't know. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) All the things the suburbs represent me, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 6:28 – 8:25
Night Flight, New Wave Theater, and discovering the underground from Georgia
- CRChris Robinson
Uh, I would say for me there was a television show in the... Do you remember Night Flight on USA Network back in the early days?
- JRJoe Rogan
I remember the name. I don't even remember what it was about.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, it would be like... It would come on at midnight and it would be concerts and f- like films-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CRChris Robinson
... like cool, like... It's probably the first time I saw Eraserhead or Rude Boy, the movie about The Clash, and, uh, you know, decline of Western civilization punk things and new wave things. And, uh, I always had an interest in s- the... In stranger things, you know? In things that weren't normal or, you know, uh, you know, Mr. Roper on Three's Company, or, or whatever.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
Like, you know what I mean? Um, and this show, they had a show that came on at 2:00 in the morning and it was from Los Angeles called New Wave Theater. And that was like huge, huge. Being a kid e- in the suburbs in Georgia where, you know, it's still pretty much like that band, all the people listen to that band. Alabama, you know, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
... they wear like trucker hats and flannels and, like, want to beat you up 'cause you have a Ramones record or something. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) And that's how it was, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CRChris Robinson
So this show was like a real beacon of... You know, my mom was like, "Oh, yeah."
- JRJoe Rogan
There it is.
- CRChris Robinson
Peter Ivers, a, uh, a very interesting, uh, character, Peter Ivers. Um-
- NANarrator
Wealth of material that surfaced in many incarnations. Tonight they're here as 45 Grave: Piece of Wax. (instrumental music plays)
- CRChris Robinson
45-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, geez.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, so this is what I'm really into. Don Bolles is the drummer in 45 Grave, who was in The Germs. (instrumental music plays)
- JRJoe Rogan
Not a happy childhood amongst them.
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) No, but... Well, I don't know. But they definitely-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 8:25 – 13:44
Art vs. algorithm: counterculture, authenticity, and early punk’s real stakes
- CRChris Robinson
... made amazing, beautiful, cool outsider art. And, you know, I think something that we have a, a hard time understanding in this day and age is art that's made because of the visceral interaction with you and other people that has nothing to do with, "I'm gonna be a big star." You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- CRChris Robinson
And some of the things I think... I, I mean, fuck, I'm like the, one of the last... I mean, The Black Crowes, we have to be one of the last bands of the time where we kinda felt it was our duty to never truly give in to the other side. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
And kind of understand this us versus them idea. You know what I mean? Or vibe. As something that's inspiring and something that is like, um... You know, I was always interested in counterculture, you know? And anyone... Again, that's like why the algorithm maybe isn't as perfect or, or it never will overtake everything 'cause there's always gonna be the one person who's like, "I'm going this way."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And that's not enough for me. You know, the deep dive people and the... And so we kind of found ourselves in the crosshairs of this kind of stuff. The Cramps, we were into The Cramps, The Gun Club. So, and then REM comes around, their first record, Chronic Town. And so my dad had... My, my mom and dad had a lot of records. Maybe 250 records, 300 records, you know? Which was a lot of records back then. Bluegrass records, you know, Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs records, or Mose Allison records, uh, Jimmy Reed records, Johnny "Guitar" Watson, and then they had, you know, Buffalo Springfield records and the, um, Bob Dylan records. I mean, that's a big hu-... Uh, I mean, for millions (laughs) of people, but something as a kid that... I knew no other kids would go, "You guys want to come over and listen to records? I'm gonna put on the-" You know? "The Times They Are A-Changing." It'd be like, again, it would be a reason to get beat, beat up, you know what I mean? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
But that kind of stuff catapults us into... Then punk rock comes along and it's like, oh, it's... Anyone can do this. You don't have to be s-... We'll figure it out later what talent, or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, you, we just want to plug in and start going, "Dun-dun-dun," and singing horrible things and trying to be offensive. You know what I mean? 'Cause think about even... Now you go to the... You know, now people walk around in Dead Kennedys T-shirts and it's like, "Oh, cool." But back then Dead Kennedys made people... Like, the name of that band, the Circle Jerks. Like, the names of these bands made people upset.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Legitimate rebellion.
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
In- instead of posturing, which is-
- CRChris Robinson
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
... a lot of what's going on today with Dead Kennedys T-shirts.
- CRChris Robinson
But, I mean, I think inevitably anything like that... I mean, Edgar Allan Poe was that in a literary way in the, you know, the, the tail end of the Victorian age. But now he's just like a thing hanging in some goth kid's car, like a air freshener (laughs) or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Right.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
So things get swallowed up culturally-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
... and, and regurgitated as just a c-... You know, and it just so happens that Dead Kennedys have one of the greatest logos of all time, but...
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, it's al-... There's always gonna be adherence to the, you know, what most people are interested in and what's popular, and then people that are trying to mimic what's popular so that they can become popular. And then there's always legitimate counterculture where people are just like, "I don't vibe with any of this."
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"I just need-"
- CRChris Robinson
"I'm looking for something else."
- JRJoe Rogan
"Yeah, I'm looking for, to something that's real, something that's raw." And as... I think that's gonna accelerate with AI music and, you know, all this electronic music. And again, as you were saying before, stuff that's sort of created-... to feed the algorithm.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, there's, there's strategies to become successful rather than just expression that resonates with people.
- 13:44 – 17:36
Corporate clashes and ‘keeping the fire’: Black Crowes vs. sponsorship culture
- JRJoe Rogan
Wasn't this sort of rebellion out... You guys had like a falling out with ZZ Top, right? When you were on tour? Wasn't part of it something about corporate involvement?
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, we were always... And it's funny, I just saw Billy Gibbons a couple weeks ago in London and we've been friends for many years and I'm a massive ZZ Top fan. I mean, one of those records, especially the early records, I mean they just sound delicious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean? I just... And when, what is it, uh, is it, which one is it? Is it Rio Grande Mo- I don't know, one of those records where you open it and there's like a giant plate of Mexican food. Like growing up in Atlanta, like that was s- I didn't know what that... You know what I mean? Like you could get that? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
We had barbecue and we had soul food, you know, we have our own regional culinary identity but to see stuff like that, I was like, "Wow, I gotta try that."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean? Um, but no, we, they... I don't even know if ZZ Top, where they were in their career, if they knew anything that was going on about like these guys that were the opening band. Except for the fact that, you know, in the music business at that time when you're still selling records and you're selling 250,000 records every week or whatever for a couple of years (laughs) so like it starts to be kooky, when it was a thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
But they were sponsored by Miller Lite and, uh, I just got into this thing where, you know, so we'd go on stage and do our thing and there's big Miller Lite posters all over the state or whatever, you know. And I got, in my little troublemaker mind, "We're the Black Crowes, you know what I mean? We don't li- we, no one gives us money, thi- we don't drink this beer, no one gives us fucking money. You know, I'm standing under this sign 'cause I have to be here tonight but I want you to know that no fucking beer company sponsors our music. No one owns us. No one..." You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
I had this, this (laughs) naive sort of thing about like, I don't know, and we, my brother and I talk about it a lot and as we've gotten older and especially since we put the band back together these last few years and have been in a really positive place and a really good place, I realize like, you know, part of our... Part of that that we were involved in, we believed in like as if rock, the ess- what we feel is really the true essence of rock and roll, is like, I, I, I describe it as like the movie Quest for Fire. You know, when they have to keep the fire burning in that little thing (laughs) and they're going across the swamp and they don't want the Neanderthals to get it or whatever. That's kinda how we felt, in a weird way, about everything that was out at, you know, one minute you're in control. Your kids were writing songs. We're in control of that. I'm in control of like this is what we're doing, this is how we look, this is what we are. And then you're in the grownup world and you've sold, you've made people tens of millions of dollars and I'm hardly a s- a savvy business person. I never could be, I never would be, it wasn't in the cards for me. Um, and so part of our, like, (laughs) being hard about it or being difficult, uh, not being compliant, was trying to f- s- in our minds keep this pure thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And in a way that still is part of what we are today.
- JRJoe Rogan
How old were you guys back then?
- CRChris Robinson
Oh, in the summer of '89, Rich was 18, I was 23 when we made our first record.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just a young rebel. (laughs)
- 17:36 – 20:51
Rock’s cultural shift: hip-hop rebellion, the death of album sales, and vinyl ritual
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) Well, you know, the other thing is, is ro- you know, you remember, rock and roll was, culturally and socially, its place and- and its importance and its reverence was (laughs) a lot different than today.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know, I think... So one thing I think is cool about hip hop music is the hip hop stars have taken over the, that kind of attitude.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- CRChris Robinson
Um, which I li- when I see f- their fashion and I see, you know, I mean there's lots of, hip hop's not one thing, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
And I'm 57. I like what I like. You know, I like old records anyway. But when I hear new things that I like and I'm like, "Okay, so they're singing about drugs, they're singing about sex and, you know, they're singing about, you know-"... may- may- maybe I can't really identify with the violence of poverty and stuff. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
Like the extreme (clears throat) nature of some of it. But- but instead, that's another form of rebellion as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And it's- it's- that's- isn't it... Hip-hop itself is an interesting art form, because there's not a push to pop-ify it. You know? Like the- the hardcore hip-hop artists are very successful.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the lyrics are rough. (laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, they're- they're very hard-edge lyrics, but yet these are the lyrics that, you know, get millions and millions of views. You can't even say "millions of sold albums" anymore, because it's like... That's- that had to be the weirdest thing, to watch the sale of albums evaporate.
- CRChris Robinson
Not just the sale. You're absolutely correct. Not just the sale, but the- the meaning of a record.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
Like, of... You know. A- a- again, in the big scheme of things, the record business isn't as old as, say, you know, p- writing or whatever. But in the way that we would listen to music and you would... You know, there's a company that would find talent and put that, the whole thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
But yeah, making a record and saying, "Okay, we're songwriters. Uh, this is what we're... This is our n- this is our latest work. This is what we've been working on."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
"This is our craft, and this is our talent and our poetry and our... This is what we want to say." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And now, it's like, you know, an- you know, an album? You know what I mean? Like, I personally think that it's still an important medium, and I- I've yet to give up on it. You know what I mean? Uh, if they said, "Wri-..." You know, "Oh, you-" You know what I mean? What am I sup-... That's what I've always, that's what Rich and I have always done. We- we write songs. It was one of the only things, again, that way we can- could experience the world, was through that. 'Cause he's as, you know, as crazy as me, just doesn't talk as much.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- CRChris Robinson
You know? Not crazy, but I mean different. You know? Um, artists, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think it resonates with a lot of people, which is why there's this resurgence of vinyl, right? Like, people still want to listen to actual vinyl. They still want to see an actual album, you know? And-
- CRChris Robinson
Agreed.
- JRJoe Rogan
And- And there's- there's a lot of, like, looking at that. There's a lot of reminiscing from people that are, like, my age and your age, that were around when these things were the way you consumed music. You would... It's a ritual.
- 20:51 – 27:26
Record-store culture, DJ nights, and chasing real-life discovery
- CRChris Robinson
I've been buying records since I was 12 years old. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
Like... And it was weird. Maybe that's because my mom and dad had a lot of records. But, you know, my wife and I, we just moved just around the block in LA, and we've been together seven years, but we kept our records separate. (laughs) I don't know. We have thousands and thousands. I just put 4,000 records in storage, because we don't have space for that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CRChris Robinson
And... But I'm like... But it's funny, because no matter what, if I see a record store, I'm going in. And I'm- I can- I could... And, you know, after however many years of buying records, I know what I'm looking for. And I don't buy records online very much. I still like to-
- JRJoe Rogan
How come?
- CRChris Robinson
I don't know. I like to... I'm like a kid when I s-... If I've been looking for something and I see it, my- I'm like, I get a shot of- of, like, endorphins. I'm like, "Oh." You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
I'm looking around like, "I don't want anything." You know? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
I- It's weird. It's geeky stuff. It's nerd stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
But, um, but the record store was really important to me as a young person and a musician. Because before, you could go on your phone, or before the algori- whatever. Like, there's a p- another person that looks cool. Like, "Oh." You know what I mean? Like, they have Chelsea boots on, or like a cool band T-shirt. In the suburbs back in the '80s, y- y- it wasn't like... You know what I mean? If you saw someone, you took the chance. It'd be like, "We need to go to their house and look through their records." You know what I mean? And it's funny that it's still that way. You know what I mean? I have so many friends in my life, and we're friends because of records. You know what I mean? And it's like, my wife and I DJ all the time in LA, and we go to New York, and we carry our records around and-
- JRJoe Rogan
You DJ? Like how?
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, uh. Like...
- CRChris Robinson
We have the- My wife's name is Camille, so we have the best DJ name ever, The Captain and Camille.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) Uh, we'd do all... Yeah, concerts and bars and parties and gigs and stuff. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When did you start doing that, DJing?
- CRChris Robinson
Uh, I started, like... Well, back in the '80s, everyone used to take a turn playing records at the pizza place. They had two turntables, called Fellini's, in Atlanta, where all the, as my dad referred to them, dirtbags and lowlifes hung out. Everyone in a band, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
Um, but then in, uh, I guess in the early 2000s, a friend of mine that worked at the great record store, Other Music, in New York, my friend Michael, we started doing these nights and playing like a lot of weird psych folk as a (laughs) ... as a kind of, as genre. And we both loved those records, and we called that, we called Gurus Galore. And, uh... Yeah. And just when I wasn't doing the Black Crowes, I had this band called The CRB. We were like a little psychedelic, folk-rock, little group that toured around and made a bunch of records. But our s-... We played two sets a night, so it was kind of like Grateful Dead model, like very heady, trippy. So, but the CRB, uh, w- and especially in California, we always had friends DJ the shows, w- doors open till after the show, and in between sets, playing records. Um, I don't know. It's just something we've always done. And my wife used to DJ before I met her and stuff, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's just, just something you enjoy?
- CRChris Robinson
We- I- by the way, if I could make, if I could make money doing it, I would never do it. If I- if me and Camille could just play records, I would be the happiest person in the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
You would stop performing?
- CRChris Robinson
No, I'm kidding.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- 27:26 – 35:27
Cities, danger, and travel as cognitive nutrition (LA, Atlanta, Italy, Sicily)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, like, what parts of LA are this happening in?
- CRChris Robinson
I mean, it happens all over, but especially more downtown and, like, to the east.
- JRJoe Rogan
Downtown?
- CRChris Robinson
I mean, yeah. If- you have to survive getting into the place, you know? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Downtown is so fucked up.
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
But that's probably something that adds to the f- feeling of it.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what it does? And it's funny, because I had a nostalgic moment about- when we were started talking about- Look, man. Um, don't get me wrong. My parents did the best they could. They were just fucking people too. But part of- the other part of adventure and the other part of being interesting and like, new wave theater, my mom's like, "They all look like mental patients, just like you!" You know? Like, great. You know? But was- s- to go to downtown Atlanta in the '80s was dangerous too, you know, during the crack epidemic and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
... uh, it was a violent place. And, um, and we were, you know, obviously, we were white kids from the suburbs traversing, like, this urban place to get into these little underground clubs to see these bands. Um, that added to it. You know what I mean? It added-
- JRJoe Rogan
To the experience, yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And just the aesthetic, you know what I mean? I was obses- I'm- I still am an obsessive, influenced by the beat writers and beat culture. And so for me, like, you know, Jack Kerouac isn't writing about the suburbs. He's writing about the, you know, Mexico City or whatever. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
Like, all the- Gregory Corso or Allen Ginsberg, all these poets and people are writing about all these experiences that don't seem to be happening in like a neighborhood where they call the houses a five, four, and a door, you know? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
So a certain angst is cultivated.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know? That only- the only thing that could satisfy that would be something that I felt was gritty and real.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's a- there's something about- if you can- I mean, I haven't been to downtown LA to see music in quite a while, but the last time I went there, I saw Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey at this, uh, very small place with, uh, you know, maybe there was like 200 people in there. I took my daughter, and it was like a late show on a Monday night, like 11:30. And here we're seeing Gary- Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey play a cover of, uh, Midnight Rider. And, uh, it just, it just has felt so special, because there was-
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... no one there.
- CRChris Robinson
And you survived.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you survive.
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And you get out. You're like, "Let's get out of here. Where's the car? Get the fuck out of here."
- CRChris Robinson
(laughs) But you know what's weird about that? And I, I get it. And we- w- but haven't- I, I, I spend a lot of my time reading. I read a lot of varied materials. And one thing that comes up is humans are dangerous. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And places where there's a shit ton of them are usually pretty gross and dangerous, you know? (laughs)
- 35:27 – 43:50
Fame, defiance, and the SNL stories: refusing to ‘vote for me’ culture
- CRChris Robinson
I have the freedom. You know, it's funny, I, I tell this story, we were on Saturday Night Live two times, the second time was in, on our second album, Southern Harmony. And we went on this show, it was the number one rec- album in, in America. It was, it debuted at number one. Our new single was a song called Sometimes Salvation. We were gonna play that. And then we were gonna play one of our big hit records, and at the time it was, uh, you know, called Remedy. And we had just written this song called Nonfiction. And I was like, "Let's play Nonfiction." And r- my ... And it's funny 'cause as different as my brother and I are, Rich was like, "Yeah, fuck it." You know what I mean? (laughs) Like, "It's a cool song." The guy, whoever was the music guy, he was like, "You can't do that." And I was like, "Well, I mean, we can do what we want, I think." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
He was mad 'cause we were smoking weed in the dressing room. I'm like, "Didn't John Belushi OD in the bathroom?" I'm like, "What do you fucking care? Call the cops."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
I told them, "Call the cops. We get arrested at Saturday Night Live for smoking weed, it'll be bigger than our, than this."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
But the guy ... Now that I'm older, I realize I was just totally being just horrible, like, kid. But he goes, "You're making a big mistake not playing this single." And I said, "Okay, well here's the deal-"... you're on this show next week with some other fucking band. And then the next week after that, and then the next week after that. Well, this is my band, so let me make the mistake. I'm not gonna let you tell us what to do. And if it's a mistake, then we'll fucking eat it, won't we? And I'm still here. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) And where is he?
- CRChris Robinson
Well, it's funny. Someone told me he has a... I forget his name. I ran into him once before. He f- did not like our attitude.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CRChris Robinson
He has... He was on a p- a podcast about Saturday Night Live or something and said we were the worst people he ever dealt with in his entire career there. And I was like, "Well, thank you." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's funny. The worst how? 'Cause you just didn't listen to him?
- CRChris Robinson
'Cause we... Yeah, yeah. We didn't do what he wanted.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's not what you're supposed to do with artists.
- CRChris Robinson
Especially when you're young and you're still-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
... like, the fire is like so intense, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's always the problem with executive mindsets versus artistic mindsets, right? When you... Some, uh, producer character who just wants everything to go according to this very specific plan they have laid out. And you're trying to take an artist. And first of all, just trying to take an artist and making them sing one song is kind of crazy.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? It's just-
- CRChris Robinson
Uh, yeah. I mean, there's... I mean, I think we see that now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know, we see people like, "I'll do it. I'll do it." You know what I means? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
There's someone who's ready to jump up and do anything, and I think that's been a part of showbiz. But that's kind of what we were saying before. I think the talent show thing, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
... you know, the, "Vote for me."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
Uh, you know what? No one was voting for us.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- 43:50 – 1:02:41
Social media as ‘tasty garbage’: attention traps, lost craft, and real community
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a difference between having... Uh, it's the difference between having a fine meal at a very nice restaurant versus eating garbage.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Eating t- tasty garbage. And TikTok is tasty garbage.
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just-
- CRChris Robinson
You're right. That's absolutely... I've never thought about it like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's bad for you, and you can't put it down, and you keep going to it, and you overconsume it.
- CRChris Robinson
And at least when you do... when it's just visual, you don't get a big stain on your shirt and... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But you get a stain... I, I think you get a stain on your brain.
- CRChris Robinson
On your soul. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I really do. I do. I think so much of what's going on today, like e- even if I just waste 10 minutes scrolling through TikTok, when it's over, I just feel, like, confused. Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I fucking paying attention to this shit?
- CRChris Robinson
I, I, I don't... I'm not... I don't have any... I never had mi- I never did any of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't have Facebook, Twitter, nothing?
- CRChris Robinson
No. I mean, the band has one, I guess, but, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's perfect. That's perfect.
- CRChris Robinson
But I don't, I don't personally.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good.
- CRChris Robinson
I never tweeted or any of those things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good for you.
- CRChris Robinson
And it's funny. My phone, like, I'm still this way. You wanna... My best friends, like the three or four people in the world that, like, I'm super, super the closest people, w- we talk on the phone. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
I love talking on the phone.
- CRChris Robinson
For hours.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know what I mean? About whatever. So it's... I, I, I get it, but I don't... Yeah, I'm one of those older pe- I don't know. I just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you developed in a different time, and this, this time is fucking bizarre. It, it's-
- CRChris Robinson
I can't imagine spending your life... grown-ass people s- spending all of their time playing video games. That's a real thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, at least that's exciting.
- CRChris Robinson
It is?
- 1:02:41 – 1:29:42
The muse, songwriting rituals, and why Black Crowes keep it ‘no laptop on stage’
- CRChris Robinson
I think music is a part of that as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know, like you said. I mean, and I, you know, there will always be... I don't know. There... I think that there's a connection in the, in creation, art cre- you know, where does the idea come from? I mean, I think there's people who can manipulate that and make like, "I'm gonna make a pop song, and it's gonna sound like this."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
And not saying that it's not special or not good, but then I think there's other things that there's... I'm not using it in a Christian way or whatever, but there's a divine spark of something that happens or whatever drops in your lap, imagination-wise.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
The muse.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
You know, the muse is real.
- JRJoe Rogan
The muse is real. I think it is real too.
- CRChris Robinson
And the one thing that I, I do believe about the muse... And I consider the muse a female presence, a per- a female, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Most do.
- CRChris Robinson
... dynamic, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And I feel that sh- that the muse, at least my, the muse that I f- feel is a- is a very jealous (laughs) thing. And I don't mean it in like any possessive way or se- anything weird. But just like the second your devotion is turned somewhere else-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
... the muse could leave you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- CRChris Robinson
That might be as superstitious as throwing salt (laughs) you know, over your shoulder or whatever, but I honestly believe that. And it makes it difficult in life because life isn't just the muse. Life isn't just the dream world that I live in-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CRChris Robinson
... in my imagination, and the ideas have to come from somewhere. It's not just singing and dancing, and you have to have ideas. What is this? You know, for me, I- I've always had to be involved with every aspect, the album covers, the stage design, the fucking laminate. Everything has to fit into a world that I can in- feel like I wanna inhabit, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
Something that's comfortable and interesting.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CRChris Robinson
And I think if you remo- so it's not just the musical part of the muse, it's the whole thing. And I think if you're like, "Oh, you know what, I'm gonna get int- I'm not..." Uh, uh, y- your, if my reverence for that goes away, uh, e- even in the slightest, I feel that she will turn her back on me forever and I'll have nothing, no more poetry, no more music, and then...
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you're probably right, because let's assume the muse is real. The muse, the muse would probably reserve its greatest inspiration for its most devoted followers.
- CRChris Robinson
I would, I think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The most devout followers are the ones that are gonna be adherent to a ritual, sit in front of the computer or the notepad, or however you write, and just like spend time-
- CRChris Robinson
Yeah, I could never ever write lyrics on a screen. I could never do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You write it on paper?
Episode duration: 2:19:57
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Transcript of episode EeRHbaj194I
