Joe Rogan Experience #2177 - Chris Robinson

Narrator 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Chris Robinson 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Especially like the first seasons, like 1972 or '3, I think.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Columbo, I almost forgot about that show. They were, they used to tell him not to smoke?

Chris Robinson 0:21 Well, no, like the character. I could tell they're probably just building up. Like, like you notice that he has a cigar in his hands-

Joe Rogan 0:27 Right.

Chris Robinson 0:27 ... the whole series, or every episode. But, but I, it's funny in 1972, people were like, "Please don't smoke in here." Or, or, "Mr. Columbo," or, "Lieutenant Columbo." He's always being, like, reprimanded for it.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Interesting. I forgot about that.

Chris Robinson 0:41 And he's always really, you know, Peter Falk's charact... He's always like, "Oh, oh, sorry." And he puts it out always. He's never like upset or anything.

Joe Rogan 0:48 Yeah, he was... That was an interesting character, right? Because he was like this bumbling guy who was actually not. He was kind of setting you up the whole time, letting you underestimate him. Acting all... "Pa- pa- pardon me."

Chris Robinson 1:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00 "But another thing."

Chris Robinson 1:01 He's always about to leave-

Joe Rogan 1:02 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:02 ... but he's like, "Oh yeah." And he comes back and like hits the-

Joe Rogan 1:05 And he's annoying people, and they're like, "Ugh." And then all of a sudden-

Chris Robinson 1:07 Incredible, though, uh, aesthetic. And like the other day I'm watching this episode that Jonathan Demme directed, Steven Spielberg. I mean, like all of these famous directors start to cut their teeth in TV and on episodic things like that, but-

Joe Rogan 1:23 Oh, really?

Chris Robinson 1:23 There's a real tone to it and stuff that's cool, and the way everyone looked. But one other funny thing about it that I've noticed (laughs) in Columbo is there, always starts with a murder, and then... Usually, a l- a lot of times in the arc of the story, someone shows up to the crime scene, (clears throat) usually whoever did it or whatever, right? And so... But they're never upset. You know? (laughs) There's never someone who runs in, "What happened here?" "Your uncle's been murdered." "Oh, I didn't do it." You know? (laughs) Like it's kinda like how it starts instead of some dramatic, you know, like, "Oh my God," you know, "How could this have..." You know, no one's even f- They're just like, "Okay, uh, well, you're bothering me now." You know? In cop shows you can always tell police, even SVU, they're always like, "I've had enough. Can you guys leave?" And they leave. I'm like, is that how it goes? I- I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:15 No.

Chris Robinson 2:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:18 (laughs) It's weird how many of those shows there are where they catch the bad guy. Like that is, it's like something that I guess people with anxiety need to let them feel like if someone is a bad person and they do commit a murder, they're gonna get caught.

Chris Robinson 2:33 Like are the, are the interest in those kinda dark scenarios, you're only interested in them when there's justice at the end? Is that what you're saying?

Joe Rogan 2:42 Oh yeah, for sure.

Chris Robinson 2:43 Like, because anything nebulous or whatever is like, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:46 Right.

Chris Robinson 2:46 ... too real maybe.

Joe Rogan 2:47 Yeah, there's those shows and then there's medical shows. Remember when there was, there was a time where there were like, every other fucking show on TV was about a hospital?

Chris Robinson 2:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:56 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 2:56 And the only one that I really remember is Quincy. So Jack Klugman yelling at everyone all the... You know?

Joe Rogan 3:02 Oh yeah.

Chris Robinson 3:02 He's yelling about the- the sandwich. He's yelling about the blood sample. He's...

Joe Rogan 3:07 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 3:07 When we were kids, we were hardcore. We were in, you know, that initial phase of American kinda hardcore punk stuff, 'cause we had just missed out the like '77, '78, '79.

Joe Rogan 3:19 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 3:19 And then there was an episode about the LA scene and they, and Quincy goes to the punk club, "Don't you see what you kids are doing to yourselves with the-"

Joe Rogan 3:30 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 3:31 "... loud music and the anger and the- the pills or whatever." You know, he like... And there was a thing when- when we were kids and there was this song, I forget which band did it, but if you were, you were fake if you were a Quincy punk, you know? 'Cause they took like the way people looked on Quincy or whatever, and that instantly became you're-

Joe Rogan 3:52 A fake punker.

Chris Robinson 3:52 Yeah, yeah. You're bullshit now.

Joe Rogan 3:54 When you started out, like what- what was the inspirations for your band? Like what were you guys into?

Chris Robinson 4:00 I mean, it's- it's hard to untangle because my dad was a singer, so our dad was a singer. And he was very f... Well, my dad was kind of a strange guy in general. Um, a lovely guy, but dynamic to say the least. But he'd had like a- a hit in the late '50s called Booma Dip Dip, like a top 40 kinda record. And uh, and a couple subsequent sort of, you know, rock and roll singles when he was living in New York and stuff. And then when he... That kind of pales out and then he moves back to Atlanta and he immerses himself in like the folk music scene, and he was signed to a label called ABC-Paramount. So by the time I come along in '66, it's kind of, he's not doing it anymore. Um...

Joe Rogan 4:54 What was he doing?

Chris Robinson 4:55 He... Well shmata guy. He was in middleman. He was like Willy Loman, you know? He was in the garment business. My, hi- my grandfather, Ike Robinson, they were in children's wear, my dad was in women's wear, and then ended later back in children's wear. But the one thing around the house that I remember, earliest memories are him pulling out this- his guitar and singing folk songs. And just, I don't know, I w- I'm dyslexic person and, uh, so my... You know what I mean? So there was... I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but there was something about always singing these songs, it would like open up stuff for me. Almost like being high or in a- in a ps- in a, not in a psychedelic way, but in a way that it changed the space. You know what I mean? And records started doing that to me very early. And that kinda is where... So it's kinda n- We think it's normal. Other kids' dads aren't playing old folk songs at the house, that I know, you know. But by the time Rich and I, you know, were kinda like...... angst-ridden suburban youth, you know. For some reason my parents decided to move to the suburbs. Financial reasons, general apathy, uh, (laughs) you know? Ready to, you know, begin the mound of, uh, resentment and regret. I don't know. Um-

Joe Rogan 6:24 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 6:25 (laughs) All the things the suburbs represent me, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 6:28 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 6:28 Uh, I would say for me there was a television show in the... Do you remember Night Flight on USA Network back in the early days?

Joe Rogan 6:41 I remember the name. I don't even remember what it was about.

Chris Robinson 6:43 Yeah, it would be like... It would come on at midnight and it would be concerts and f- like films-

Joe Rogan 6:49 Oh.

Chris Robinson 6:49 ... like cool, like... It's probably the first time I saw Eraserhead or Rude Boy, the movie about The Clash, and, uh, you know, decline of Western civilization punk things and new wave things. And, uh, I always had an interest in s- the... In stranger things, you know? In things that weren't normal or, you know, uh, you know, Mr. Roper on Three's Company, or, or whatever.

Joe Rogan 7:15 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 7:15 Like, you know what I mean? Um, and this show, they had a show that came on at 2:00 in the morning and it was from Los Angeles called New Wave Theater. And that was like huge, huge. Being a kid e- in the suburbs in Georgia where, you know, it's still pretty much like that band, all the people listen to that band. Alabama, you know, the-

Joe Rogan 7:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 7:36 ... they wear like trucker hats and flannels and, like, want to beat you up 'cause you have a Ramones record or something. You know?

Joe Rogan 7:42 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 7:43 (laughs) And that's how it was, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:45 Wow.

Chris Robinson 7:45 So this show was like a real beacon of... You know, my mom was like, "Oh, yeah."

Joe Rogan 7:50 There it is.

Chris Robinson 7:51 Peter Ivers, a, uh, a very interesting, uh, character, Peter Ivers. Um-

Narrator 8:00 Wealth of material that surfaced in many incarnations. Tonight they're here as 45 Grave: Piece of Wax. (instrumental music plays)

Chris Robinson 8:09 45-

Joe Rogan 8:09 Oh, geez.

Chris Robinson 8:09 Yeah, so this is what I'm really into. Don Bolles is the drummer in 45 Grave, who was in The Germs. (instrumental music plays)

Joe Rogan 8:19 Not a happy childhood amongst them.

Chris Robinson 8:21 (laughs) No, but... Well, I don't know. But they definitely-

Joe Rogan 8:25 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 8:25 ... made amazing, beautiful, cool outsider art. And, you know, I think something that we have a, a hard time understanding in this day and age is art that's made because of the visceral interaction with you and other people that has nothing to do with, "I'm gonna be a big star." You know?

Joe Rogan 8:45 Right, right, right.

Chris Robinson 8:46 And some of the things I think... I, I mean, fuck, I'm like the, one of the last... I mean, The Black Crowes, we have to be one of the last bands of the time where we kinda felt it was our duty to never truly give in to the other side. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 9:05 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 9:05 And kind of understand this us versus them idea. You know what I mean? Or vibe. As something that's inspiring and something that is like, um... You know, I was always interested in counterculture, you know? And anyone... Again, that's like why the algorithm maybe isn't as perfect or, or it never will overtake everything 'cause there's always gonna be the one person who's like, "I'm going this way."

Joe Rogan 9:30 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 9:30 And that's not enough for me. You know, the deep dive people and the... And so we kind of found ourselves in the crosshairs of this kind of stuff. The Cramps, we were into The Cramps, The Gun Club. So, and then REM comes around, their first record, Chronic Town. And so my dad had... My, my mom and dad had a lot of records. Maybe 250 records, 300 records, you know? Which was a lot of records back then. Bluegrass records, you know, Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs records, or Mose Allison records, uh, Jimmy Reed records, Johnny "Guitar" Watson, and then they had, you know, Buffalo Springfield records and the, um, Bob Dylan records. I mean, that's a big hu-... Uh, I mean, for millions (laughs) of people, but something as a kid that... I knew no other kids would go, "You guys want to come over and listen to records? I'm gonna put on the-" You know? "The Times They Are A-Changing." It'd be like, again, it would be a reason to get beat, beat up, you know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:29 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 10:30 But that kind of stuff catapults us into... Then punk rock comes along and it's like, oh, it's... Anyone can do this. You don't have to be s-... We'll figure it out later what talent, or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, you, we just want to plug in and start going, "Dun-dun-dun," and singing horrible things and trying to be offensive. You know what I mean? 'Cause think about even... Now you go to the... You know, now people walk around in Dead Kennedys T-shirts and it's like, "Oh, cool." But back then Dead Kennedys made people... Like, the name of that band, the Circle Jerks. Like, the names of these bands made people upset.

Joe Rogan 11:05 Right.

Chris Robinson 11:06 And-

Joe Rogan 11:06 Legitimate rebellion.

Chris Robinson 11:07 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:08 In- instead of posturing, which is-

Chris Robinson 11:11 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 11:11 ... a lot of what's going on today with Dead Kennedys T-shirts.

Chris Robinson 11:14 But, I mean, I think inevitably anything like that... I mean, Edgar Allan Poe was that in a literary way in the, you know, the, the tail end of the Victorian age. But now he's just like a thing hanging in some goth kid's car, like a air freshener (laughs) or something.

Joe Rogan 11:32 (laughs) Right.

Chris Robinson 11:32 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 11:34 So things get swallowed up culturally-

Joe Rogan 11:36 Right.

Chris Robinson 11:36 ... and, and regurgitated as just a c-... You know, and it just so happens that Dead Kennedys have one of the greatest logos of all time, but...

Joe Rogan 11:43 Yeah. Well, it's al-... There's always gonna be adherence to the, you know, what most people are interested in and what's popular, and then people that are trying to mimic what's popular so that they can become popular. And then there's always legitimate counterculture where people are just like, "I don't vibe with any of this."

Chris Robinson 12:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:00 "I just need-"

Chris Robinson 12:00 "I'm looking for something else."

Joe Rogan 12:01 "Yeah, I'm looking for, to something that's real, something that's raw." And as... I think that's gonna accelerate with AI music and, you know, all this electronic music. And again, as you were saying before, stuff that's sort of created-... to feed the algorithm.

Chris Robinson 12:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:17 You know, there's, there's strategies to become successful rather than just expression that resonates with people.

Chris Robinson 12:24 Let the peop- yeah, yeah. In, in a way, I mean, someone took a chan- you know, a band like Alan Vega and, you know, like Suicide, like someone, you know, the no wave music in New York in the late '70s. Someone took a chance and said, "Yeah, c-..." I would think about how weird was that. You know, like bringing that into a studio where who was just in here? Fucking 38 Special or some shit.

Joe Rogan 12:46 Right. Right. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 12:46 You know what I mean? And then there's (laughs) like this or whatever. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 12:49 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 12:49 I mean, it's a cool thing about early, you know, like, the first Sex Pistols record, the, The Clash record's a little different but even the Dead Boys, or bands like that, like, a lot of those early punk records and a lot of the post-punk records, those bands, they're not making records trying to sound, you know, "Oh, I can make a record sound like a 'I don't give a fuck' or something-"

Joe Rogan 13:14 Right.

Chris Robinson 13:14 "... on my GarageBen." Or what, you know, you can do anything now with like a button and, uh, and, and people... And I like lo-fi shit too, of course. But back then, they're, these bands, they're not making lo-fi records. They're in just, like that's a real band in a, but with great gear and people who are making like records that we would think are sonically like, "Oh, that's correct."

Joe Rogan 13:37 Right.

Chris Robinson 13:37 And then you have (laughs) like these punk people in there just like, "You can't turn it up all the way." "Well, we're doing that." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 13:44 Wasn't this sort of rebellion out... You guys had like a falling out with ZZ Top, right? When you were on tour? Wasn't part of it something about corporate involvement?

Chris Robinson 13:53 Yeah, we were always... And it's funny, I just saw Billy Gibbons a couple weeks ago in London and we've been friends for many years and I'm a massive ZZ Top fan. I mean, one of those records, especially the early records, I mean they just sound delicious.

Joe Rogan 14:09 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 14:09 You know what I mean? I just... And when, what is it, uh, is it, which one is it? Is it Rio Grande Mo- I don't know, one of those records where you open it and there's like a giant plate of Mexican food. Like growing up in Atlanta, like that was s- I didn't know what that... You know what I mean? Like you could get that? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:25 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 14:26 We had barbecue and we had soul food, you know, we have our own regional culinary identity but to see stuff like that, I was like, "Wow, I gotta try that."

Joe Rogan 14:35 Mm.

Chris Robinson 14:35 You know what I mean? Um, but no, we, they... I don't even know if ZZ Top, where they were in their career, if they knew anything that was going on about like these guys that were the opening band. Except for the fact that, you know, in the music business at that time when you're still selling records and you're selling 250,000 records every week or whatever for a couple of years (laughs) so like it starts to be kooky, when it was a thing.

Joe Rogan 15:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 15:02 But they were sponsored by Miller Lite and, uh, I just got into this thing where, you know, so we'd go on stage and do our thing and there's big Miller Lite posters all over the state or whatever, you know. And I got, in my little troublemaker mind, "We're the Black Crowes, you know what I mean? We don't li- we, no one gives us money, thi- we don't drink this beer, no one gives us fucking money. You know, I'm standing under this sign 'cause I have to be here tonight but I want you to know that no fucking beer company sponsors our music. No one owns us. No one..." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 15:40 Right.

Chris Robinson 15:40 I had this, this (laughs) naive sort of thing about like, I don't know, and we, my brother and I talk about it a lot and as we've gotten older and especially since we put the band back together these last few years and have been in a really positive place and a really good place, I realize like, you know, part of our... Part of that that we were involved in, we believed in like as if rock, the ess- what we feel is really the true essence of rock and roll, is like, I, I, I describe it as like the movie Quest for Fire. You know, when they have to keep the fire burning in that little thing (laughs) and they're going across the swamp and they don't want the Neanderthals to get it or whatever. That's kinda how we felt, in a weird way, about everything that was out at, you know, one minute you're in control. Your kids were writing songs. We're in control of that. I'm in control of like this is what we're doing, this is how we look, this is what we are. And then you're in the grownup world and you've sold, you've made people tens of millions of dollars and I'm hardly a s- a savvy business person. I never could be, I never would be, it wasn't in the cards for me. Um, and so part of our, like, (laughs) being hard about it or being difficult, uh, not being compliant, was trying to f- s- in our minds keep this pure thing.

Joe Rogan 17:16 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 17:17 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 17:18 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 17:18 And in a way that still is part of what we are today.

Joe Rogan 17:21 How old were you guys back then?

Chris Robinson 17:24 Oh, in the summer of '89, Rich was 18, I was 23 when we made our first record.

Joe Rogan 17:30 Wow.

Chris Robinson 17:31 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Just a young rebel. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 17:36 (laughs) Well, you know, the other thing is, is ro- you know, you remember, rock and roll was, culturally and socially, its place and- and its importance and its reverence was (laughs) a lot different than today.

Joe Rogan 17:49 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 17:50 You know, I think... So one thing I think is cool about hip hop music is the hip hop stars have taken over the, that kind of attitude.

Joe Rogan 17:58 Yes.

Chris Robinson 17:59 Um, which I li- when I see f- their fashion and I see, you know, I mean there's lots of, hip hop's not one thing, of course.

Joe Rogan 18:07 Right.

Chris Robinson 18:08 And I'm 57. I like what I like. You know, I like old records anyway. But when I hear new things that I like and I'm like, "Okay, so they're singing about drugs, they're singing about sex and, you know, they're singing about, you know-"... may- may- maybe I can't really identify with the violence of poverty and stuff. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 18:28 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 18:29 Like the extreme (clears throat) nature of some of it. But- but instead, that's another form of rebellion as well.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah. And it's- it's- that's- isn't it... Hip-hop itself is an interesting art form, because there's not a push to pop-ify it. You know? Like the- the hardcore hip-hop artists are very successful.

Chris Robinson 18:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:51 And the lyrics are rough. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 18:52 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:53 You know, they're- they're very hard-edge lyrics, but yet these are the lyrics that, you know, get millions and millions of views. You can't even say "millions of sold albums" anymore, because it's like... That's- that had to be the weirdest thing, to watch the sale of albums evaporate.

Chris Robinson 19:08 Not just the sale. You're absolutely correct. Not just the sale, but the- the meaning of a record.

Joe Rogan 19:15 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 19:15 Like, of... You know. A- a- again, in the big scheme of things, the record business isn't as old as, say, you know, p- writing or whatever. But in the way that we would listen to music and you would... You know, there's a company that would find talent and put that, the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 19:30 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 19:30 But yeah, making a record and saying, "Okay, we're songwriters. Uh, this is what we're... This is our n- this is our latest work. This is what we've been working on."

Joe Rogan 19:42 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 19:42 "This is our craft, and this is our talent and our poetry and our... This is what we want to say." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:49 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 19:49 And now, it's like, you know, an- you know, an album? You know what I mean? Like, I personally think that it's still an important medium, and I- I've yet to give up on it. You know what I mean? Uh, if they said, "Wri-..." You know, "Oh, you-" You know what I mean? What am I sup-... That's what I've always, that's what Rich and I have always done. We- we write songs. It was one of the only things, again, that way we can- could experience the world, was through that. 'Cause he's as, you know, as crazy as me, just doesn't talk as much.

Joe Rogan 20:23 Mm.

Chris Robinson 20:24 You know? Not crazy, but I mean different. You know? Um, artists, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:30 I think it resonates with a lot of people, which is why there's this resurgence of vinyl, right? Like, people still want to listen to actual vinyl. They still want to see an actual album, you know? And-

Chris Robinson 20:40 Agreed.

Joe Rogan 20:40 And- And there's- there's a lot of, like, looking at that. There's a lot of reminiscing from people that are, like, my age and your age, that were around when these things were the way you consumed music. You would... It's a ritual.

Chris Robinson 20:51 I've been buying records since I was 12 years old. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 20:53 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 20:54 Like... And it was weird. Maybe that's because my mom and dad had a lot of records. But, you know, my wife and I, we just moved just around the block in LA, and we've been together seven years, but we kept our records separate. (laughs) I don't know. We have thousands and thousands. I just put 4,000 records in storage, because we don't have space for that.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Wow.

Chris Robinson 21:19 And... But I'm like... But it's funny, because no matter what, if I see a record store, I'm going in. And I'm- I can- I could... And, you know, after however many years of buying records, I know what I'm looking for. And I don't buy records online very much. I still like to-

Joe Rogan 21:38 How come?

Chris Robinson 21:39 I don't know. I like to... I'm like a kid when I s-... If I've been looking for something and I see it, my- I'm like, I get a shot of- of, like, endorphins. I'm like, "Oh." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 21:49 Right.

Chris Robinson 21:49 I'm looking around like, "I don't want anything." You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:51 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 21:52 I- It's weird. It's geeky stuff. It's nerd stuff.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 21:55 But, um, but the record store was really important to me as a young person and a musician. Because before, you could go on your phone, or before the algori- whatever. Like, there's a p- another person that looks cool. Like, "Oh." You know what I mean? Like, they have Chelsea boots on, or like a cool band T-shirt. In the suburbs back in the '80s, y- y- it wasn't like... You know what I mean? If you saw someone, you took the chance. It'd be like, "We need to go to their house and look through their records." You know what I mean? And it's funny that it's still that way. You know what I mean? I have so many friends in my life, and we're friends because of records. You know what I mean? And it's like, my wife and I DJ all the time in LA, and we go to New York, and we carry our records around and-

Joe Rogan 22:43 You DJ? Like how?

Chris Robinson 22:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Uh, uh. Like...

Chris Robinson 22:45 We have the- My wife's name is Camille, so we have the best DJ name ever, The Captain and Camille.

Joe Rogan 22:50 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 22:53 (laughs) Uh, we'd do all... Yeah, concerts and bars and parties and gigs and stuff. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:00 Really?

Chris Robinson 23:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:00 When did you start doing that, DJing?

Chris Robinson 23:02 Uh, I started, like... Well, back in the '80s, everyone used to take a turn playing records at the pizza place. They had two turntables, called Fellini's, in Atlanta, where all the, as my dad referred to them, dirtbags and lowlifes hung out. Everyone in a band, of course.

Joe Rogan 23:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 23:19 Um, but then in, uh, I guess in the early 2000s, a friend of mine that worked at the great record store, Other Music, in New York, my friend Michael, we started doing these nights and playing like a lot of weird psych folk as a (laughs) ... as a kind of, as genre. And we both loved those records, and we called that, we called Gurus Galore. And, uh... Yeah. And just when I wasn't doing the Black Crowes, I had this band called The CRB. We were like a little psychedelic, folk-rock, little group that toured around and made a bunch of records. But our s-... We played two sets a night, so it was kind of like Grateful Dead model, like very heady, trippy. So, but the CRB, uh, w- and especially in California, we always had friends DJ the shows, w- doors open till after the show, and in between sets, playing records. Um, I don't know. It's just something we've always done. And my wife used to DJ before I met her and stuff, so.

Joe Rogan 24:24 ... it's just, just something you enjoy?

Chris Robinson 24:25 We- I- by the way, if I could make, if I could make money doing it, I would never do it. If I- if me and Camille could just play records, I would be the happiest person in the world.

Joe Rogan 24:35 You would stop performing?

Chris Robinson 24:36 No, I'm kidding.

Joe Rogan 24:36 No.

Chris Robinson 24:37 (laughs) I love singing, I love performing. I love being in a band, you know what I mean? I- I love, uh, it's changed a lot, like anything else, and travel and everything. But I've probably personally- it's yet to beat the adventure out of me, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 24:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 24:54 You never know. Same thing about why- I could go online and buy whatever book or record I want right now. Anything, almost anything you can imagine, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:05 Is available.

Chris Robinson 25:05 Is available. But, you know, I, I, I know when I'm in Denver, I'm going to this certain bookstore, and I know that what- that they have really curated things in there that I'm looking for. I can wander into, you know, you never know who you're gonna meet, you never know what you're gonna eat, who- you know what I mean? The laughs and the, you know, it's still a lot of stuff out there for someone like me, a lot of, uh, stimuli.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Real experiences.

Chris Robinson 25:34 Yeah, that are good, and human.

Joe Rogan 25:36 Yeah. Yeah. Human experiences. Yeah. I mean, that is what live music and live performance is all about, right? I mean, music is great. Live music is something really special.

Chris Robinson 25:46 I tell you, the, you know, the pandemic was weird for the world. And it was, you know, for artists and musicians, we had, you know, no one's- no government bailout for the guy who, you know, is (laughs) playing guitar or whatever.

Joe Rogan 26:02 Right.

Chris Robinson 26:02 But as hard as it was, uh, one- one of the worst parts of it, to me, was not- not just being able to do what we do, but not going to see bands.

Joe Rogan 26:11 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 26:12 You know what I mean? I've- I have a l- I have a label called Silver Arrow, and we've been doing this for a few years. Uh, the Black Crowes records come out on Silver Arrow. It's a little different, but I'm always going to see bands, you know what I mean? I'm- we go, whether it's the Rolling Stones or whether we go see a band at a little club in LA, and I'm always looking for new, you know, things to- people that are interesting, if I could help them out in their careers. A lot of it is with really young artists. I want to put them in the studio. I wanna give them good experience. I wanna give them a great record deal, because the- it's changed, the model. Um, but we- but to do that, you have to go out and get in it, you know what I mean? And it's- we always laugh. I'm like, "Is there anyone older here tonight than me?" You know? (laughs) And they're like, "There's one!" You know what I mean? "He's a freaky dude who still goes to see bands."

Joe Rogan 27:03 Yeah. Well, people don't want to let it go, and why should they? Why should you let it go?

Chris Robinson 27:07 I mean, and LA right now is a great time.

Joe Rogan 27:09 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 27:09 I mean, there's a lot of good music going on in LA.

Joe Rogan 27:11 Really?

Chris Robinson 27:11 And there's a lot of bars where, you know, we know if someone has a g- it plays great records, we'll go listen to them play records. You know what I mean? There's a lot of good record people, bands. There's a lot of cool- LA is very alive right now.

Joe Rogan 27:25 No kidding.

Chris Robinson 27:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:26 Well, like, what parts of LA are this happening in?

Chris Robinson 27:28 I mean, it happens all over, but especially more downtown and, like, to the east.

Joe Rogan 27:32 Downtown?

Chris Robinson 27:34 I mean, yeah. If- you have to survive getting into the place, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:38 (laughs) Downtown is so fucked up.

Chris Robinson 27:39 (laughs) I know.

Joe Rogan 27:40 But that's probably something that adds to the f- feeling of it.

Chris Robinson 27:43 You know what it does? And it's funny, because I had a nostalgic moment about- when we were started talking about- Look, man. Um, don't get me wrong. My parents did the best they could. They were just fucking people too. But part of- the other part of adventure and the other part of being interesting and like, new wave theater, my mom's like, "They all look like mental patients, just like you!" You know? Like, great. You know? But was- s- to go to downtown Atlanta in the '80s was dangerous too, you know, during the crack epidemic and-

Joe Rogan 28:12 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 28:13 ... uh, it was a violent place. And, um, and we were, you know, obviously, we were white kids from the suburbs traversing, like, this urban place to get into these little underground clubs to see these bands. Um, that added to it. You know what I mean? It added-

Joe Rogan 28:31 To the experience, yeah.

Chris Robinson 28:31 And just the aesthetic, you know what I mean? I was obses- I'm- I still am an obsessive, influenced by the beat writers and beat culture. And so for me, like, you know, Jack Kerouac isn't writing about the suburbs. He's writing about the, you know, Mexico City or whatever. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:52 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 28:52 Like, all the- Gregory Corso or Allen Ginsberg, all these poets and people are writing about all these experiences that don't seem to be happening in like a neighborhood where they call the houses a five, four, and a door, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:05 Right.

Chris Robinson 29:05 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 29:06 Right.

Chris Robinson 29:07 So a certain angst is cultivated.

Joe Rogan 29:11 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 29:12 You know? That only- the only thing that could satisfy that would be something that I felt was gritty and real.

Joe Rogan 29:17 Well, there's a- there's something about- if you can- I mean, I haven't been to downtown LA to see music in quite a while, but the last time I went there, I saw Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey at this, uh, very small place with, uh, you know, maybe there was like 200 people in there. I took my daughter, and it was like a late show on a Monday night, like 11:30. And here we're seeing Gary- Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey play a cover of, uh, Midnight Rider. And, uh, it just, it just has felt so special, because there was-

Chris Robinson 29:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:49 ... no one there.

Chris Robinson 29:50 And you survived.

Joe Rogan 29:51 And you survive.

Chris Robinson 29:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:51 And you get out. You're like, "Let's get out of here. Where's the car? Get the fuck out of here."

Chris Robinson 29:55 (laughs) But you know what's weird about that? And I, I get it. And we- w- but haven't- I, I, I spend a lot of my time reading. I read a lot of varied materials. And one thing that comes up is humans are dangerous. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:09 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 30:09 And places where there's a shit ton of them are usually pretty gross and dangerous, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:14 Yeah. Well, it's just a numbers thing, right?

Chris Robinson 30:15 It's n- it's totally numbers thing. It's other things-

Joe Rogan 30:20 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 30:20 ... ills as well-

Joe Rogan 30:21 Sure.

Chris Robinson 30:22 ... that are hard for us to deal with.

Joe Rogan 30:24 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 30:24 And, and look, uh, if we're lucky enough to be walking upright and me- some s- how mentally stable or whatever, right? Um-... but (laughs) but you're, but ... I think cities have always been dangerous places.

Joe Rogan 30:41 They certainly have.

Chris Robinson 30:42 Ancient Rome was a dangerous place.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Oh, yeah.

Chris Robinson 30:44 You know what I mean? I mean, I, it was so wild. We were just in Sicily and we went to Palermo for the day, and it was wa- Paler- have you ever been to Palermo?

Joe Rogan 30:51 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 30:51 It's wild.

Joe Rogan 30:52 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 30:53 It's a, that city is like a bl- like an electric wire that's got sparks shooting out of it and you can't get ahold of it, you know?

Joe Rogan 31:00 That's where my grandfather's from. Yeah, when I-

Chris Robinson 31:03 From Palermo?

Joe Rogan 31:03 Yeah. When we went to, um, uh, Italy, th- one of the, the most interesting things-

Chris Robinson 31:07 By the way, is this water?

Joe Rogan 31:08 Yes. Yes.

Chris Robinson 31:10 Can I have it?

Joe Rogan 31:10 And there's coffee in this if you want that.

Chris Robinson 31:11 Cheers.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Um, one of the most interesting things is, well a- and just Italy in general, is like, I, every time I go there I'm like, "Maybe I should live like this." Like, they, they fucking know how to relax.

Chris Robinson 31:22 (laughs) Yeah, they have to.

Joe Rogan 31:23 Those people know how to relax. Like, with the way they sit down and eat. No one sits down and eats for 40 minutes, you sit down and eat for two hours.

Chris Robinson 31:30 French people have it dialed in pretty good.

Joe Rogan 31:31 They do.

Chris Robinson 31:32 Now (laughs) they do.

Joe Rogan 31:33 They do. Yeah.

Chris Robinson 31:33 As well. And they have Pastis, which is the, you know ...

Joe Rogan 31:38 What is Pastis?

Chris Robinson 31:38 Pastis is a ... It's, it's a aperitif from the south of France. You ever see it says Ricard. Marseilles, Marseilles is famous for Pastis. It's a, it, all Mediterranean cultures have an anisette-based drink. Italians have Sambuca.

Joe Rogan 31:53 Mm.

Chris Robinson 31:54 The Greeks have Ouzo. Arak in Leban- Le- Lebanese people, and there's all sorts of them. In the south of France they drink one that's a little more, uh, sophisticated and to, a lot more herbs and things in it. And they say you always know in France someone from Marseilles 'cause they always have a Pastis in their hands.

Joe Rogan 32:13 Mm.

Chris Robinson 32:13 It's like four ... It's a high alcohol level, a lot of sugar, but it's delicious. You put it in ice and dilute it with water and it makes it all this kind of milky color, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:23 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 32:24 It's genius.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Well, just y- you only have a certain amount of time on this planet, and they've chosen to live their time in a more relaxed manner, more community-based, and just people who like to sit around and talk, and-

Chris Robinson 32:39 Do you think that any of that has to do with embracing a certain m- a middle classness or, or even lower middle cl- you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 32:49 Right.

Chris Robinson 32:49 Like the working man, you know what I mean? Even in a blue-collar way, I think. You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 32:53 Right. Just-

Chris Robinson 32:53 Whereas here it seems that's been stripped away from something to be proud of.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Right.

Chris Robinson 32:57 Unless it's kind of, uh, in a way, um, distortedly proud, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:02 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 33:03 In a distortion of what that could be.

Joe Rogan 33:05 Right, I know what you're saying. Yeah. Well, in here it's supposed to be your, your main goal is to get to be the type of person that can look down upon that.

Chris Robinson 33:14 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Yeah. You n- your goal is not to exist in that and just accept it that this is life. That life is you have money for food, you have money for your house. Like, you, you're not wealthy but you're okay.

Chris Robinson 33:25 I mean, well, if you look at like media c- like, sitcoms from the '70s.

Joe Rogan 33:29 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 33:30 Whether it's Archie Bunker or whatever, like-

Joe Rogan 33:32 Yep.

Chris Robinson 33:32 ... they're just people with jobs, and-

Joe Rogan 33:34 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 33:34 ... even Taxi or Barney Miller or whatever.

Joe Rogan 33:38 Yeah. Uh-huh.

Chris Robinson 33:38 You know what I mean? And now it's like then it turns into Full House where somehow all these (laughs) people and these kids live in this amazing house and everyone has clean clothes. You know what I mean? It's like ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:49 (laughs) There's no struggle.

Chris Robinson 33:50 (laughs) Yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 33:51 And no, no rec- and it's not just recognition. I think it's ... And it's not celebratory. It's just like, "Look, man. This, we're ... This doesn't make the man, right?"

Joe Rogan 34:00 Right.

Chris Robinson 34:01 "This, what, what ... My material things don't make me who I am."

Joe Rogan 34:04 Right. Right.

Chris Robinson 34:04 "It's who I am, how I feel, what I, you know, what I've learned."

Joe Rogan 34:09 That's the big problem is what we, we're sold in Western culture, that, um, the, the goal is to acquire things and to achieve a certain financial status. And then, then you'll have made it.

Chris Robinson 34:20 I get it. Pastis doesn't grow on trees, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 34:22 Right.

Chris Robinson 34:22 I gotta pay for that shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:23 Right. But it's not that expensive.

Chris Robinson 34:25 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:25 You know what I mean? It's not, it's, it's just there's an extortion of goals.

Chris Robinson 34:27 But you know what's fucked up about that, though? Like, when we were kids, and I get it, like I said, I, I made the choice in my life, Mom and Dad we weren't, you know, we, they were middle class people. But I made the choice, uh, t- when I said I'm not going to university, uh, I'm gonna be in a band. My da- that was like the last dollar I ever saw, uh. Not even like, "Hey ..." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 34:52 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 34:52 And (clears throat) but I made that choice. That choice wasn't made for me.

Joe Rogan 34:57 Right. Right.

Chris Robinson 34:58 You know what I mean? And within two years I'm on the cover (laughs) of Rolling Stone Magazine. They were fucking around and, you know what I mean? Like, selling millions of records. I get, I get that, you know what I mean? I'm not ... It's not lost on me. But it gets back to where we started talking about there will always be a s- a part of me, uh, that is making music because it's really maybe the only place where I'm truly free. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 35:27 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 35:27 I have the freedom. You know, it's funny, I, I tell this story, we were on Saturday Night Live two times, the second time was in, on our second album, Southern Harmony. And we went on this show, it was the number one rec- album in, in America. It was, it debuted at number one. Our new single was a song called Sometimes Salvation. We were gonna play that. And then we were gonna play one of our big hit records, and at the time it was, uh, you know, called Remedy. And we had just written this song called Nonfiction. And I was like, "Let's play Nonfiction." And r- my ... And it's funny 'cause as different as my brother and I are, Rich was like, "Yeah, fuck it." You know what I mean? (laughs) Like, "It's a cool song." The guy, whoever was the music guy, he was like, "You can't do that." And I was like, "Well, I mean, we can do what we want, I think." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:15 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 36:16 He was mad 'cause we were smoking weed in the dressing room. I'm like, "Didn't John Belushi OD in the bathroom?" I'm like, "What do you fucking care? Call the cops."

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 36:23 I told them, "Call the cops. We get arrested at Saturday Night Live for smoking weed, it'll be bigger than our, than this."

Joe Rogan 36:28 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 36:29 But the guy ... Now that I'm older, I realize I was just totally being just horrible, like, kid. But he goes, "You're making a big mistake not playing this single." And I said, "Okay, well here's the deal-"... you're on this show next week with some other fucking band. And then the next week after that, and then the next week after that. Well, this is my band, so let me make the mistake. I'm not gonna let you tell us what to do. And if it's a mistake, then we'll fucking eat it, won't we? And I'm still here. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:01 (laughs) And where is he?

Chris Robinson 37:02 Well, it's funny. Someone told me he has a... I forget his name. I ran into him once before. He f- did not like our attitude.

Joe Rogan 37:09 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 37:09 He has... He was on a p- a podcast about Saturday Night Live or something and said we were the worst people he ever dealt with in his entire career there. And I was like, "Well, thank you." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:19 That's funny. The worst how? 'Cause you just didn't listen to him?

Chris Robinson 37:22 'Cause we... Yeah, yeah. We didn't do what he wanted.

Joe Rogan 37:24 That's not what you're supposed to do with artists.

Chris Robinson 37:26 Especially when you're young and you're still-

Joe Rogan 37:28 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 37:28 ... like, the fire is like so intense, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 37:32 That's always the problem with executive mindsets versus artistic mindsets, right? When you... Some, uh, producer character who just wants everything to go according to this very specific plan they have laid out. And you're trying to take an artist. And first of all, just trying to take an artist and making them sing one song is kind of crazy.

Chris Robinson 37:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Right? It's just-

Chris Robinson 37:50 Uh, yeah. I mean, there's... I mean, I think we see that now.

Joe Rogan 37:53 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 37:53 You know, we see people like, "I'll do it. I'll do it." You know what I means? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:57 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 37:57 There's someone who's ready to jump up and do anything, and I think that's been a part of showbiz. But that's kind of what we were saying before. I think the talent show thing, the-

Joe Rogan 38:06 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 38:06 ... you know, the, "Vote for me."

Joe Rogan 38:08 Right.

Chris Robinson 38:09 Uh, you know what? No one was voting for us.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Right, right, right.

Chris Robinson 38:11 We were un-votable.

Joe Rogan 38:13 Right. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 38:13 And that was part of the reason that we were drawn to these characters and these people and these other outsiders and these other, uh, whatever kind of spectrum we're on, or whatever, that's different, that w- what we were like... Uh, you know, music just represented everything anti-vote for me.

Joe Rogan 38:36 But did it feel weird to transcend that-

Chris Robinson 38:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:39 ... and become mainstream massive?

Chris Robinson 38:41 Yes. Compl- It's so weird sometimes.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Like, you guys... Like, what is the juxtaposition? I mean, I mean, it has to be so strange. You- you're these rebels, and then all of a sudden, you're the number one fucking band in the world.

Chris Robinson 38:50 And then, yeah. And it's... It was tough. It was maybe tougher for me because I was more boots on the ground in the scene and with people. And now it's like, especially in the '80s in Atlanta, it was like, uh, you know, "Fuck major. Anyone who signs with a major label, man, fuck them." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 39:13 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Robinson 39:13 And I'm like, "Yeah," you know? Like, "Power to the people," or whatever, you know?

Joe Rogan 39:16 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 39:16 And then it's like, you're on MTV 30 times a day a- and, you know-

Joe Rogan 39:20 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 39:20 ... in between fucking Toyota commercials and Snapple or whatever.

Joe Rogan 39:23 Right.

Chris Robinson 39:23 You know what I mean? Like... So... And it's weird because our politics are so in line with so many of the, like, the alternative politics of music, the way-

Joe Rogan 39:35 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 39:35 You know, uh, that would l- the grunge or whatever. Uh, you know, so... You know, I'm the same age as all of the grunge bands, but I don't exist in the '90s in the same way. We weren't... You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 39:48 Right, right, right.

Chris Robinson 39:49 Like, 'cause we were doing something... But it is funny, like, d- w- which, you know, people say, "Well, if Kurt co-" No fucking label is signing Kurt Cobain today. But as a matter of fact, Kurt and our generation of people were, we were talking about compliance and defiance. You're making a mistake. Fuck it. It's my mistake to make.

Joe Rogan 40:09 Well-

Chris Robinson 40:09 It's my band, it's my art. And people ma- we ma- and my g- kind of generation... It's not about being old, but now I think there's so much compliance. "Oh, okay." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:19 Well-

Chris Robinson 40:19 "I don't wanna cause any trouble at the record label," you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 40:22 Yeah, this is... We- we're all distorted right now with social media and all, all the different avenues for people to get attention and to get famous. It's so, so easy. I- I shouldn't say it's easy because it's rare, but common. So it's like, it- it's more, uh, it's- it's more highlighted which way you can go to achieve success. But do you, do you remember that famous time where Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were playing and they were forcing them to lip sync?

Chris Robinson 40:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:47 And so, what did Kurt do? Did he start reading out of a book or something like that? Like, he did, did a bunch of wild things, like, wow?

Chris Robinson 40:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. I mean...

Joe Rogan 40:55 See if you can find that, Jamie, 'cause it's kind of hilarious.

Chris Robinson 40:57 Yeah, I know, I know. It's-

Joe Rogan 40:58 Nobody did that at the time. And they were telling them, "No, no, no. You can't play live." So, yeah, here it is. Perf- set to perform the recent single, Smells Like Teen Spirit, the British music chart television program Top of the Pops turned to the policy requiring artists to sing live vocals over pre-recorded backtracks. As you would expect, Kurt Cobain and his band mates would not let this go without having some fun, so they started fucking around in the middle of the song.

Chris Robinson 41:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:23 The re- result was and still one of the greatest middle fingers to live performances ever. The band literally made its own shred video.

Chris Robinson 41:30 (laughs) Yeah, amazing.

Joe Rogan 41:32 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 41:32 Yeah, 'cause you got to sing the live vocal over the track, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Yeah, and so you start fucking around and coming up with new lives.

Chris Robinson 41:37 That's great.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 41:39 I mean, we were, we loved The Replacements, you know? That was like a b-

Joe Rogan 41:42 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 41:42 And like, their being on Saturday Night Live was a disaster, but we thought, "That's our band." You know what I mean? I remember every fucking person that we knew in Atlanta that Saturday night that The Replacements came on and- and made it in TV, on Saturday Night Live. We all were at parties and watching it and getting completely shitfaced watching. They, like, shaved their eyebrows off and shit and were rolling around and changed clothes. And they were like-

Joe Rogan 42:08 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 42:08 And people were like, "Oh, dear!" (laughs) You know, and I was...

Joe Rogan 42:11 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 42:11 We were like, "Yeah!" Cheering it on, like, that's how you... That's it. Isn't that part of one of the goals is to be that big of a pain in the ass to the... And who are you being a pain in the ass to, but some authority.

Joe Rogan 42:24 Right.

Chris Robinson 42:25 Something that says, "You can't do that," or, "This is the way it goes." And that changes, you know, but I think as y- and as a youth, that's definitely something I'm not feeling with a lot of bands. I mean, I think it's there in like the punk scene and m- and stuff like that, but- but they're not get- they're not getting access to them, you know?

Joe Rogan 42:43 Well-

Chris Robinson 42:43 Green- Green Day is still that way, I feel.

Joe Rogan 42:45 The carrot is still dangled right in front of everybody's faces so close now, you know? Especially with people that make it.... independently through YouTube and TikTok, and all these different venues. There's just so many different ways that someone could become massively successful now.

Chris Robinson 43:00 (laughs) See, this is where I become the time traveler. I am from (laughs) the last century.

Joe Rogan 43:08 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 43:09 I, I get it. I, I find... I don't, you know... I think a guy smashing his nuts on a rail on a skateboard is as funny as anyone, but I've seen it. You know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:20 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Robinson 43:21 It's not like... (laughs) You know what I mean? It's not like, um, Steve Coogan or something. You know what I mean? Like, the craft and, like, subtext and, like, all this other weird cerebral stuff with f- comedy or whatever. I just don't... I will never... I g- It's just me as well. The, the things that I... the cinema that I enjoy, the, the books I read, the records that I listen to, there is... All of them, if there's one thing in common, there's a level of craft.

Joe Rogan 43:50 There's a difference between having... Uh, it's the difference between having a fine meal at a very nice restaurant versus eating garbage.

Chris Robinson 43:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:57 Eating t- tasty garbage. And TikTok is tasty garbage.

Chris Robinson 44:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:01 It's just-

Chris Robinson 44:01 You're right. That's absolutely... I've never thought about it like that.

Joe Rogan 44:03 It's bad for you, and you can't put it down, and you keep going to it, and you overconsume it.

Chris Robinson 44:09 And at least when you do... when it's just visual, you don't get a big stain on your shirt and... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:14 But you get a stain... I, I think you get a stain on your brain.

Chris Robinson 44:17 On your soul. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:17 Yeah, I really do. I do. I think so much of what's going on today, like e- even if I just waste 10 minutes scrolling through TikTok, when it's over, I just feel, like, confused. Like, what am I doing? Like, why am I fucking paying attention to this shit?

Chris Robinson 44:31 I, I, I don't... I'm not... I don't have any... I never had mi- I never did any of that.

Joe Rogan 44:35 You don't have Facebook, Twitter, nothing?

Chris Robinson 44:36 No. I mean, the band has one, I guess, but, you know?

Joe Rogan 44:40 That's perfect. That's perfect.

Chris Robinson 44:41 But I don't, I don't personally.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Good.

Chris Robinson 44:43 I never tweeted or any of those things.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Good for you.

Chris Robinson 44:46 And it's funny. My phone, like, I'm still this way. You wanna... My best friends, like the three or four people in the world that, like, I'm super, super the closest people, w- we talk on the phone. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:58 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Chris Robinson 45:00 Like-

Joe Rogan 45:00 I love talking on the phone.

Chris Robinson 45:00 For hours.

Joe Rogan 45:01 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 45:01 You know what I mean? About whatever. So it's... I, I, I get it, but I don't... Yeah, I'm one of those older pe- I don't know. I just-

Joe Rogan 45:11 Well, you developed in a different time, and this, this time is fucking bizarre. It, it's-

Chris Robinson 45:16 I can't imagine spending your life... grown-ass people s- spending all of their time playing video games. That's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Well, at least that's exciting.

Chris Robinson 45:26 It is?

Joe Rogan 45:27 Uh, yeah. Video games are... Some video games are fucking incredible.

Chris Robinson 45:29 Why? Does it give you a shock or something? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:31 No, some video games are so immersive, man. You have 3D sound and incredible graphics.

Chris Robinson 45:35 Really?

Joe Rogan 45:36 Running through corridors, and people are chasing you. It's very exciting. And it hits all of your dopamine receptors, and it just-

Chris Robinson 45:42 All right.

Joe Rogan 45:42 ... fires you up. I mean, video games are pretty fucking amazing now. But it's just that the world that we're living in today is... it's not designed for human beings. It's designed to capture human beings, capture your attention. It's not, it's not a, a... Like, if you, if you're, you're spending your time going from, uh, a coffee shop, to a restaurant, to a bookstore, to a record store, to a live concert-

Chris Robinson 46:06 Museum-

Joe Rogan 46:07 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 46:07 ... to an art gallery.

Joe Rogan 46:08 These are human experiences. These are human experiences.

Chris Robinson 46:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:10 But if you take- spend your time arguing with people on Twitter all day, like... Nothing is more depressing to me than seeing old rock stars argue about politics on Twitter. It is so goddamn depressing watching rock stars virtue signal and, uh, attacking people personally for having differing political beliefs. Like, and, and then looking at their timeline and realizing these poor fucks are addicted to this shit, and they're, they're doing this five, six hours every day.

Chris Robinson 46:38 Get off my lawn!

Joe Rogan 46:39 Yeah, it's, it's, "Get off my lawn."

Chris Robinson 46:40 You get off my lawn! I mean...

Joe Rogan 46:42 But it's, you know, it's fucking rock stars. It's like, good Lord, man. Do you have friends? Like, get out.

Chris Robinson 46:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:48 Get out of the house. Stop doing this.

Chris Robinson 46:50 We just, we just... You know, it's funny. We were gone for three months. We did the States on this latest tour. We played a lot of new songs from our latest record. It was amazing. And then we finished in Europe, and, and my wife and I stayed in Sicily and went back to London, uh, at the end. And I've been doing it for 35 years of that, you know, 1990, first time I go to Europe.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 47:16 And, and it's still like, I don't care... 35 years, it's a lot of shows. I don't care if I wake up and I'm tired. And we have friends all over the place, which is a beautiful thing. Friends in Amsterdam, friends in Paris, friends in London-

Joe Rogan 47:28 That's nice.

Chris Robinson 47:28 ... friends in Madrid, friends in this, this... you know, Germany, whatever.

Joe Rogan 47:31 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 47:32 But we're, we're constantly out doing... You know what I mean? There's no way we're not hitting the town in any town and finding what it has that makes maybe it unique or special, whether that's taste, smell-

Joe Rogan 47:44 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 47:45 ... touch, or whatever. I mean, it's... I, I... It sounds silly, but like I said before, it's advent- there's still adventure in the world. And I'm not talking about jumping out of an airplane adventure or-

Joe Rogan 47:55 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 47:56 ... e- you know, that just... stimuli.

Joe Rogan 47:59 I, I think it's, it's cognitive nutrition. I think it's actually good for you to experience different cultures and see how people hang out and see their restaurants and see, you know, what-

Chris Robinson 48:09 And you see everyone's doing the same shit.

Joe Rogan 48:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Robinson 48:12 You know, they're just styling it a little different.

Joe Rogan 48:14 Hmm. Doing it in a different way. But it, it flavors your understanding of human beings.

Chris Robinson 48:19 That's why my very, very special place, the thing that I love almost more than any other thing, is Jamaica.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Really?

Chris Robinson 48:27 (clears throat) I've been... I was lucky enough to have a dear friend introduce me to Jamaica alm- 30 years ago. And I have friends there. And, uh, I have a whole life there that has nothing to do with anything other than Jamaica shit. And I go to the country and, like, we, like, have, like, a country kinda life there, you know, by the ocean.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 48:53 ... no resorts, you know.

Joe Rogan 48:55 The food there is fucking incredible.

Chris Robinson 48:56 Amazing, amazing food in Jamaica.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Jamaican food is so delicious.

Chris Robinson 49:01 And you have to get out there and eat it, and they have, uh, like anything else, you know, the fruits there, the vegetables there, the seafood. And, and you know, they say in Jamaica that a goat, a goat in Jamaica only has one bad day, man, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:17 (laughs) Yeah. It's not even a whole bad day.

Chris Robinson 49:18 It's just a, a quick moment.

Joe Rogan 49:21 One bad moment, and that's a wrap.

Chris Robinson 49:22 (laughs) One bad moment, and the rest, we're all happy with, you know?

Joe Rogan 49:25 Yeah. And then the rest, everyone's eating it. Yeah, that's one of the things I loved about, uh, Anthony Bourdain's show, you know, that he would go and really immerse himself in these cultures and eat their food and hang out with their chefs and hang out with the people and get toured, you know, someone would take him on a tour around the town, explain-

Chris Robinson 49:41 You know what happened too? Sometimes he would be tired-

Joe Rogan 49:44 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 49:44 ... and hungover.

Joe Rogan 49:45 Oh, yeah.

Chris Robinson 49:46 And, and... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:46 Most of the time.

Chris Robinson 49:47 Yeah. (laughs) But...

Joe Rogan 49:48 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 49:48 But again, you know, I'd have peop- I mean, I, I get it, man. Everyone has a tough day, but it's like, "Oh dear, I, uh, I don't know. You know, I better get this." I'm like, "Okay," you know?

Joe Rogan 49:57 If you enjoy what you're doing, being tired is not that bad.

Chris Robinson 50:00 No. No.

Joe Rogan 50:00 If you enjoy what you're doing, you, it's like, "So what?"

Chris Robinson 50:02 And-

Joe Rogan 50:02 Just get up, have a coffee, let's go.

Chris Robinson 50:04 And I, and I b- bullshit you not, if, if for some reason I had to like, get a quick 20, 25 in, I could curl up right there and do it, and you-

Joe Rogan 50:14 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 50:14 ... wouldn't even know I was here.

Joe Rogan 50:15 I believe you.

Chris Robinson 50:16 (laughs) Like expert... That's 35 years of being on the road.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Knowing how to power nap.

Chris Robinson 50:21 I gotta get, I gotta go down-

Joe Rogan 50:22 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 50:22 ... or I'm gonna like be in a, like in an intersection, like you know, waving-

Joe Rogan 50:26 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 50:26 ... a gun around with my pants down by my ankles or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:29 Uh, I've learned how to sleep instantly on planes. I get on a plane, and almost always, I'm out cold.

Chris Robinson 50:33 Me too. I annoy every single person I'm traveling with.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 50:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:39 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 50:39 They're like, "How's he asleep so quick?"

Joe Rogan 50:39 Especially my wife, she's like, "What? How'd you fall asleep that quick?" I fall asleep on takeoff.

Chris Robinson 50:43 Even with my Jamaican dog in my lap. We brought a, when we, my wife and I were married in Jamaica, and we have a little street dog that we brought back.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Oh, that's cool.

Chris Robinson 50:52 Bammy Long Face, yeah. It's like-

Joe Rogan 50:54 Oh, wow.

Chris Robinson 50:54 ... Bammy... She's 35 pounds, but I can even sleep with my Jamaican street dog on my lap.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Ah, that's cool. So Jamaica's your spot, huh?

Chris Robinson 51:02 Fan... A b-... And they just got hit very hard with this hurricane, so it's, um... My friends are okay and stuff, but they're, everyone's really sh- shooken up over in Jamaica.

Joe Rogan 51:12 Oh, it's scary shit, man.

Chris Robinson 51:14 And it's been a bad... They haven't had something like that since 2007, and this was worse.

Joe Rogan 51:18 I saw live footage of it, some live cellphone footage of it. It just, unless you've experienced that live when, when you've r- around the sky, and the sky becomes an angry monster, and everywhere around you is dangerous, and the winds are 120 miles an hour and just like... It's so humbling.

Chris Robinson 51:33 I've never... I, I mean, I was in a tornado in Atlanta in the early '70s, and that was... I mean, I was probably too l- young to be like traumatized, but I remember it, my, a feeling my parents' trauma-

Joe Rogan 51:47 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 51:48 ... about this thing going over our house or whatever.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Oh, it's fucking terrifying, shit, man. Terrifying.

Chris Robinson 51:52 But when it was over though, when you're a kid, it was like amazing. Like, the whole world was one big pine sap jungle gym. I mean, for weeks, we were just... (laughs) 'Cause you're just climbing and all the fallen trees-

Joe Rogan 52:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 52:03 And my dad had some old Pontiac, and that thing was like a U in the car, so giant pine trees smashed that thing.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Wow.

Chris Robinson 52:10 Yeah. We, so it was like a surrealist thing too as a kid, you know, like, "Wow, everything's been shaken up."

Joe Rogan 52:17 Yeah. It's, it's also a lesson in the temporary nature of things. You can look out and think, "This is my lawn. This is where the car is parked. This is how things are." And then all of a sudden, the sky is like, "Not today, bitch."

Chris Robinson 52:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:28 "Let's throw a tree through your fucking house."

Chris Robinson 52:30 What was that commercial in the '70s that Mother Earth gets angry or whatever? Remember that? It was like shampoo or something, and then the, but it was like m-... Oh, there, there was their catchphrase, and they would be like... (makes static noise) You know?

Joe Rogan 52:42 Oh, yeah, I remember that.

Chris Robinson 52:44 I don't know. It was like a, I think it might be shampoo or something.

Joe Rogan 52:47 Something stupid like that.

Chris Robinson 52:48 But, but it's true, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 52:50 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 52:50 You have to deal... I mean, shit, fuck.

Joe Rogan 52:54 Well, can you-

Chris Robinson 52:54 Katrina is still something, like, you know, I love New Or- uh, New Orleans is one of the most special cities in the world, and it's still amazing. It's still vibrant, dynamic, alive. But I think the scars of that place-

Joe Rogan 53:11 Oh, for sure.

Chris Robinson 53:12 ... are still, still there. I mean, that was-

Joe Rogan 53:13 Devastating.

Chris Robinson 53:14 Brutal.

Joe Rogan 53:14 Yeah, unbelievably brutal. I mean, when, when hurricanes hit places and devastate them, it takes decades for them to recover, especially without aid. And then sometimes it's like the people that are there, they just don't wanna do it anymore. It's like when you realize that you're in a place that this happens and there's other places where this doesn't happen, you just get the fuck out, you know? But there's a humbling of being attached to nature in that way that I think, like, I grew up in Boston. And there's something to the people that live up there that understand that every winter, it's gonna get so cold that you could die outside.

Chris Robinson 53:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:47 That's a, that's a reality that no one in LA experiences 'cause in LA, it's like...

Chris Robinson 53:53 Earthquakes, fire, floods, zombie apocalypse, I get it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:55 You get a little bit of that, but you can kinda get away from that.

Chris Robinson 53:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:58 It's just, it's not gonna overcome your entire city.

Chris Robinson 54:01 You can, you can build a very high fence and have the state-of-the-art security system.

Joe Rogan 54:05 The fires are wild. I, I was evacuated-

Chris Robinson 54:07 Terrifying.

Joe Rogan 54:07 ... three times living in LA 'cause we were in the valley.

Chris Robinson 54:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:11 Th- three separate times. The last time, the two houses across the street from my house burnt to the ground. It was wild. It's just wild going through your old neighborhood and seeing just house after house. Like, there's 40 houses in our neighborhood that were burnt to the ground.

Chris Robinson 54:24 We were in Marin County, Northern California, and out in a place called Lagunitas and, well, this is four or five summers ago, and we just, you know, kept shit in the car, guitars, you know, there's one guitar I just can't live without, some pic... You know, we just kept-

Joe Rogan 54:40 Just in case.

Chris Robinson 54:41 ... both our cars filled because you're out, you know, just ashes falling in the yard every day.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 54:46 And scary.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Well, it's, when it goes bad, it goes real bad. I was filming, um, Fear Factor once in the, um...It was about, um, an hour and a half away from LA. And, um, the fires got so bad, we had to stop shooting and drive home. And on the way home, we were o- off the 5 freeway. And on the way home, the entire right side of the highway for an hour was in flames. Like, completely in flames like a Lord of the Rings movie.

Chris Robinson 55:15 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:16 Like you're waiting-

Chris Robinson 55:17 (laughs) Fuck.

Joe Rogan 55:17 ... for demons to ride horses over the top of the mountains. It was ... But it's ... There's something about those, those kind of scenes that's like, it puts you back in check. It lets like, "Hey, man, like maybe the things you're concentrating on aren't all that important for real."

Chris Robinson 55:32 I think it also touches us in a, in a, in a, in our animalistic DNA of, like, still being that pers- ... You know, these-

Joe Rogan 55:41 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 55:42 ... people ... Again, it's Quest for Fire. Uh, being these (laughs) people-

Joe Rogan 55:46 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 55:46 ... who are really n- ... Not just ... Y- ... Completely immersed in their environment as well for-

Joe Rogan 55:53 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 55:53 ... survival and sustenance and everything.

Joe Rogan 55:55 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 55:55 That it's still like, in the way, I guess, you know, there's an instinctive thing in those moments that are ... that has to be the exact same chemical reaction in every human being.

Joe Rogan 56:07 Mm.

Chris Robinson 56:08 In any expanse of time that we've been like this.

Joe Rogan 56:11 Yeah. Yeah. When we were in Sicily, uh, we were at one pl- ... I guess there was an eruption there recently.

Chris Robinson 56:17 There's one today or last night.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Yeah. I was-

Chris Robinson 56:20 Mount Etna.

Joe Rogan 56:20 That's right. I was seeing it on the news. But when we were there, there's ... We w- ... We were, um, at ... Near this one island that had a, a constant eruption. And at nighttime, you could see the red at the top of the mountain, just a little bit of red, like, blub- ... bubbling up off the top of the mountain. It was so fucking cool.

Chris Robinson 56:36 I've never really got close to something like that. Like, I ... You know.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Have you ever done the tour in Hawaii? Where you fly over in a helicopter.

Chris Robinson 56:44 No.

Joe Rogan 56:45 Hawaii is wild. The Big Island is wild because it's growing every year.

Chris Robinson 56:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:49 Because the lava is constantly flowing into the ocean. You could literally watch the island expand in real time.

Chris Robinson 56:55 That's wild.

Joe Rogan 56:56 And you fly over it in helicopter, so you're-

Chris Robinson 56:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:58 ... flying over, you're looking down at the lava pouring out of the earth. Is this Italy? Mount Etna. Look at that. Isn't that wild?

Chris Robinson 57:05 Sicily, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Man.

Chris Robinson 57:07 That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Not to be confused with regular Italy. Yeah, Sicilians think of themselves very differently. Look how beautiful that is, man. God, that's so fucking cool. We visited Pompeii too.

Chris Robinson 57:21 I did that as a kid, and it's-

Joe Rogan 57:23 That's crazy.

Chris Robinson 57:23 ... still one of the coolest ... But I was like ... You know, it's funny, when I, I look back. You know, they have, like, up the streets, they'll have, like, the fountain at the end of the street or where-

Joe Rogan 57:34 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 57:34 ... where the water would come, and you could see, like, where people lean their hand ... Uh, there's, like, an indention-

Joe Rogan 57:39 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 57:40 ... for the centuries of people-

Joe Rogan 57:41 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 57:41 ... leaning in to get a sip of water.

Joe Rogan 57:42 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 57:43 And I just put my ha- hand on that as a kid just, like, I co- ... I almost couldn't stop, like, thinking about that.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 57:50 I do that all the time. I do ... You know, I do that with my kids when I'm, like, fucking around. I'm like, "Shake the hand." "I shook Chuck Berry's hand."

Joe Rogan 57:58 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 57:59 "Bo Diddley's hand."

Joe Rogan 58:00 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 58:00 "Little Ri- ... I shook Little Richard's hand. John Lee Hooker." You know? They're all, like, laughing, you know.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Damn, you met John Lee Hooker?

Chris Robinson 58:07 I did one time, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 Wow. That's a guy I'd love to meet.

Chris Robinson 58:11 It was ... His handshake was, like, amazing. It was just like a ... He, he touched my hand and it was just like a s- ... like a cloud. It was the softest, like, pillow.

Joe Rogan 58:21 Mm.

Chris Robinson 58:21 And I was like, "Wow." And it- ... (clears throat) it was early, you know, early days. We headlined the Memphis Blues Festival, and he went on before us, and I was like, "I just don't think that's right," you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:34 Wow. Right, right, right.

Chris Robinson 58:34 I was like, "I know we're selling a lot of records, but that's-"

Joe Rogan 58:38 It's crazy.

Chris Robinson 58:38 "That's Jo- ... That's John Lee Hooker, man."

Joe Rogan 58:40 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 58:40 'Never get out of these blues alive,' you know?

Joe Rogan 58:42 Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah, he was as cool as it gets. That's amazing, man. Hey, you ever met anybody that just, like, gave ... You're, you're like, "I can't believe I'm talking to this person"?

Chris Robinson 58:54 Uh, yes. But one time it was Dr. J. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:00 Oh, wow.

Chris Robinson 59:01 Yeah, I was at some party in Vegas. This is back in the mid-'90s, some VH1 thing or something. And I was standing outside. I was at the Hard Rock. And isn't the guy's name Steve Wynn who owns the thing, the Hard Rock or ... Wynn?

Joe Rogan 59:15 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Robinson 59:16 Or, or something.

Joe Rogan 59:17 He owns a bunch of that stuff out there.

Chris Robinson 59:18 Yeah, and this was, you know, 30 years ago. And I was there, and he was like, "Oh, hey, Chris, you ever met Julius Erving?" And I was ... I, I mean, I, I was like, "Oh, oh, oh ..." I had just ... I loved Dr. J so much growing up, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:32 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 59:32 He and George Gervin were my heroes. I played basketball. And I was like ... And he, he was just so cool, you know? And he was like, "Hey, man, nice to meet you." And he's ... I was just ... I was, like, a little kid, you know? I just couldn't believe that f- ... I met Dr. J.

Joe Rogan 59:48 Mm.

Chris Robinson 59:48 "I shook Dr. J's hand. I gotta throw him in there too."

Joe Rogan 59:51 Wow.

Chris Robinson 59:52 And the other one would be, um, Robert Altman, the director.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Oh, really?

Chris Robinson 59:58 I met Robert at a (laughs) ... at a party. I was at a party, the ... Like, a Donatella Versace party in London, and there were a bunch of famous people there. But we ... They ... Everyone sat down at a table and, uh, you know, and different things. And he was a g- ... I was just like, "Oh, th-" ... And he was with Richard E. Grant. They were making Gosford Park. Richard E. Grant also I was impressed to see and meet because of the film Withnail and I is one of my favorite movies of all time, and there's Withnail, you know? Like, "There he is." I mean, it's Richard, but ... But there's Bob Altman, who is, you know, lord of my imagination and, you know, one of the best film- ... My favorite film- ... Some of my favorite films of all time. And so after ... When the dinner kind of, like, is, is less whatever, people are up talking to other people, I just go over to him. I'm, I'm like, "Fuck it, I'm just gonna t-" ... You know? 'Cause I, I would be a little bit timid or shy in that situation.... and I would never think anyone, and I still to this day, never imagine anyone knows who I am or what I do, or whatever. It's a good way to go through life, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 Yeah. It is a good way to go through life.

Chris Robinson 1:01:09 You know what I mean? I'm being, I'm being totally honest.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:01:12 And then you find out most people don't know who you are, give a fuck what you do. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:01:16 But I go over, and I- I- I introduce myself, and I instantly recognize that he smells like weed, like he's, you know, got a roach in his pocket or something. And I'm like, "Bob, are you holding it?"

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:01:29 He goes, "Yeah, you wanna get stoned?" I was like, "Yes."

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:01:32 So he pulls out a joint, and like we're sitting there, and we're just talking about weed. And, you know, he's like, "It's hard to get, I get this from California, you know?" And I was like, "Wow, man," I, you know. And we smoked a joint and talked a little bit about music and jazz in London, and that was kind of it. And he was like, "Oh, you should come by the office." And I, I never took him up on it-

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Oh.

Chris Robinson 1:01:55 ... like the production office, just because I just, I felt out of my depth. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:02:01 Um, I should have, but that a- that was like one of those things that I will always remember.

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 It's interesting when you meet people that were heroes to you, and they're just, they're human beings. They're just normal.

Chris Robinson 1:02:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 And then you realize like, especially in your case, like you've become that to other people. And then some kid will come up to you, "Chris Robinson?"

Chris Robinson 1:02:23 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 And you're like, "Yeah, a fucking normal person, just a person." But to them, you're, you're The Black Crowes, you're not a normal person.

Chris Robinson 1:02:31 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 You're, you're a fucking god. You know, it's, it's weird. You're an inaccessible like plateau of society that very few people ever experience.

Chris Robinson 1:02:41 I think music is a part of that as well.

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:02:43 You know, like you said. I mean, and I, you know, there will always be... I don't know. There... I think that there's a connection in the, in creation, art cre- you know, where does the idea come from? I mean, I think there's people who can manipulate that and make like, "I'm gonna make a pop song, and it's gonna sound like this."

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:03:05 And not saying that it's not special or not good, but then I think there's other things that there's... I'm not using it in a Christian way or whatever, but there's a divine spark of something that happens or whatever drops in your lap, imagination-wise.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:03:22 The muse.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:03:23 You know, the muse is real.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 The muse is real. I think it is real too.

Chris Robinson 1:03:26 And the one thing that I, I do believe about the muse... And I consider the muse a female presence, a per- a female, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Most do.

Chris Robinson 1:03:37 ... dynamic, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:03:39 And I feel that sh- that the muse, at least my, the muse that I f- feel is a- is a very jealous (laughs) thing. And I don't mean it in like any possessive way or se- anything weird. But just like the second your devotion is turned somewhere else-

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:03:58 ... the muse could leave you.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:04:02 That might be as superstitious as throwing salt (laughs) you know, over your shoulder or whatever, but I honestly believe that. And it makes it difficult in life because life isn't just the muse. Life isn't just the dream world that I live in-

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Right.

Chris Robinson 1:04:15 ... in my imagination, and the ideas have to come from somewhere. It's not just singing and dancing, and you have to have ideas. What is this? You know, for me, I- I've always had to be involved with every aspect, the album covers, the stage design, the fucking laminate. Everything has to fit into a world that I can in- feel like I wanna inhabit, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:04:35 Something that's comfortable and interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:04:37 And I think if you remo- so it's not just the musical part of the muse, it's the whole thing. And I think if you're like, "Oh, you know what, I'm gonna get int- I'm not..." Uh, uh, y- your, if my reverence for that goes away, uh, e- even in the slightest, I feel that she will turn her back on me forever and I'll have nothing, no more poetry, no more music, and then...

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Well, you're probably right, because let's assume the muse is real. The muse, the muse would probably reserve its greatest inspiration for its most devoted followers.

Chris Robinson 1:05:11 I would, I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Yeah. The most devout followers are the ones that are gonna be adherent to a ritual, sit in front of the computer or the notepad, or however you write, and just like spend time-

Chris Robinson 1:05:22 Yeah, I could never ever write lyrics on a screen. I could never do it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 You write it on paper?

Chris Robinson 1:05:26 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 Yeah?

Chris Robinson 1:05:27 (laughs) Like, to, completely-

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Does anybody write lyrics on screens?

Chris Robinson 1:05:33 I, I think, yeah, I think a lot of people.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Like could like artists that you know of?

Chris Robinson 1:05:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 L- interesting.

Chris Robinson 1:05:38 I think a lot of hip hop people write rhymes on their phones and...

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 Yeah. No, I know a lot of guys do that. Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:05:42 I've seen, I've known a lot of rock and roll people who were like, "Hey, oh, you know."

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Well, the phone thing's convenient. I transfer all my notes to phones 'cause it's a, and occasionally I'll write something on the phone. The, the best thing about the phone, honestly, is like sometimes I have an idea, may- maybe I've had a couple of cocktails too, which is like, you know, memory is slippery. When you're drinking with friends and you're having a good time, but you have an idea, I'll just like run into a bathroom stall.

Chris Robinson 1:06:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 And I'll hit the voice recorder and just say it.

Chris Robinson 1:06:07 I do that too. I do th- I, I do the voice recorder as well for like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:06:11 ... if I'm plucking around on guitar-

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:06:13 ... and I get a little something that I like.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:06:16 Um, or the, when Rich and I are writing songs too, like if we're not... But, you know, I've never had a home studio. I've never wanted that. I, I-

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 Really?

Chris Robinson 1:06:23 ... I never-

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 You wanna go to a place?

Chris Robinson 1:06:25 I wanna go to a place, and I li- and part of my thing is I like, um, everyone's contribution.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:06:34 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 Right.

Chris Robinson 1:06:35 Um, I mean, in The Black Crowes, Rich and I write the songs, so but the contributions can be musical or the produ- or it could be anything.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 Right.

Chris Robinson 1:06:44 I mean, the, sometimes the, you know, it's the engineer and the producer in the band and the-

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 It's the vibe of those people being together.

Chris Robinson 1:06:50 And it's all of that circulating-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:06:52 ... and percolating and making something everyone in on it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:06:57 You know what I mean? Like an old submarine movie or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 Right, right.

Chris Robinson 1:07:01 Like you're being depth charged and everyone has a job to do-

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:07:04 ... so you don't die.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 Right. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:07:07 (laughs) You know-... but I think that's important for, for me, you know. Like, I love... I mean, Prince is one of my... musically, I mean, there's an argument to be made that maybe Prince was the baddest motherfucker of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 Definitely an argument.

Chris Robinson 1:07:22 I, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:07:23 ... 'cause there's people who can write, there's people who can play, there's people who can produce and record, and there's people who can dance and sing and perform. That guy did it all at its-

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:07:37 ... ultimate level.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Every musical instrument. (laughs) I mean...

Chris Robinson 1:07:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Yeah. He was insane. He was so good. And he was so different. I remember when the first album came out and it's just that picture of him with his shirt off, with like, his hair, you know, and you, you hear the songs and you're like, "Wow, this guy is out there." It's just different.

Chris Robinson 1:07:53 Yeah, the second record, Prince.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 Was that the second record or what was the first one?

Chris Robinson 1:07:55 The first one's... Yeah, the first one's called For You, and there's a picture of him kinda like... s- it's... he was sh-

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Is For You is that one with Jack Me Off?

Chris Robinson 1:08:03 It's Soft &... S- no, that's later.

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 Oh, okay. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:08:05 For You, the first single, is Soft & Wet.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Oh. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:08:09 (laughs) Which is before Jack You Off.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:08:10 It has to be Soft & Wet. And it's... I always laugh 'cause I was, uh, you know, gett- by the time we were in the suburbs... I live in Atlanta, you know. I'm obsessed with Black radio at the time. I'm only listening to V103FM Atlanta. My first concert is Slave and Kool & the Gang and Sky at the Omni.

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 Oh, wow.

Chris Robinson 1:08:27 I'm going to see The Time, Vanity 6, SOS, Lakeside, Cameo, you know. These- that-

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 Oh, wow. Morris Day.

Chris Robinson 1:08:33 Yeah. That was one of the best concerts I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Wow.

Chris Robinson 1:08:36 Um, at that... you know, at that-

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:08:38 ... time in my life. And only listening to that radio. So, the first Prince single comes out and it's Soft & Wet. It's a great song. (singing) And like, funky and cool with this little kinda disco breakdown in the middle.

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:08:53 A little rollerskating shit in the middle. And I'm like, "I d-" but I didn't really know what soft and wet was yet. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:08:59 I was like, "Is this like a washcloth that he left in the bed? What is this?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:02 Yeah. No, he was a character, man. I mean, very original c-

Chris Robinson 1:09:04 I never met him.

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 ... character.

Chris Robinson 1:09:06 I never even... I saw him. I only saw him in concert once.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 Really?

Chris Robinson 1:09:11 And it was fantastic. He was amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 He was doing a residency once at House of Blues in Vegas, uh, but it was like really late at night and I had to do something in the morning and I passed on going. And I was... to this day I kill myself.

Narrator 1:09:24 Just fucking goddamn it.

Chris Robinson 1:09:24 Oh, yeah, 'cause he would do the concert and then go play another eight hours or whatever.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 Yeah. Well, he was going up really late. It's like, it was after midnight, and I was like, "I got shit I have to do tomorrow. I can't do this. I can't be that tired."

Chris Robinson 1:09:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 And to this day I'm like, "Fuck."

Chris Robinson 1:09:39 You know what's funny? The other person I met that I was... that put me very much at ease, but when I first said hello that I was totally freaked out, was George Jones.

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 Oh, wow.

Chris Robinson 1:09:48 I met him at the, at the Ryman Auditorium after Johnny Cash passed away. They had a-

Joe Rogan 1:09:52 It's like meeting Jesus at the Sistine Chapel. (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:09:55 Man. Man. I mean, I was like... I was... I got ushered into this dressing room, you know. I was a guest. And Kris Kristofferson was there. I was at f- you know, I was amazed to meet him.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:10:06 And, uh... but I- I'm like, "F- fucking George Jones." Old Possum's right there. And I ended up talking to him and he was really, really sweet, man, and wanted to talk about Kansas City Chiefs. He loved the Chiefs. And... But I used to watch football back then, and, uh... but I will always remember... So, they were... he was taking over for Johnny Cash, singing... I think it's Johnny Cash. Maybe it was Waylon's part. I, I don't know the song that great. The Highwaymen. << I was a highwayman >>

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:10:38 << On the Columbia River... >>

Joe Rogan 1:10:40 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:10:41 And he was the dam builder.

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 Hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:10:44 On the Columbia River or whatever. But he, he... (laughs) he kept looking at the lyrics and he went, "I'm a dam builder?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 Ah.

Chris Robinson 1:10:54 And then Kris Kristofferson was like, "Man, it's not like..." He goes, "I don't think my fans want me to... I'm a dam builder." I mean, he just kept... thought it was so funny. And I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 That's funny.

Chris Robinson 1:11:02 ... "What an amazing, you know, that I got to be in there." But the other funny part of that is, they were like, "Kris, will you take a picture with George and Kris?" And I'm like, "I'm getting my fucking picture taken with George Jones and Kris Kristofferson."

Joe Rogan 1:11:16 That's pretty wild.

Chris Robinson 1:11:17 This is f- the like, coolest thing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:11:20 And I'm like, I'm like in the middle, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:11:22 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:11:22 And I'm like, "Man, this is the coolest day ever." And then, the door opens. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 Look at that.

Chris Robinson 1:11:30 My ex-wife was there too.

Joe Rogan 1:11:31 Wow.

Chris Robinson 1:11:33 But then the door opens, and Al Gore gets in the picture.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:11:39 And ruins it. Like, "Get out of the picture!"

Joe Rogan 1:11:42 Who-

Chris Robinson 1:11:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:44 How did he get in there?

Chris Robinson 1:11:45 I don't know. I went to-

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 Did he start talking about the climate?

Chris Robinson 1:11:47 Well, yeah, what... yeah. That was his initial climate thing, but I'm like, "Let's talk about your wife telling people-"

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:11:54 "... what they can listen to," or whatever.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Yeah, Tipper Gore.

Chris Robinson 1:11:56 Like, "Get outta here. Who are you, self-righteous..."

Joe Rogan 1:11:59 Yeah, people forgot about that. She was the one who made... Well, all... it actually helped albums, 'cause when they put those warning labels on albums-

Chris Robinson 1:12:05 Everyone wanted them. All the kids wanted them.

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Everybody wanted a warning label one, yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:12:07 I never even got a warning label.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 Oh. I remember when NWA had the warning label on them.

Chris Robinson 1:12:11 I mean, all of them. But I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:12:13 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:12:13 ... I'm like, "You guys are really seriously upset about the band W.A.S.P.?" I mean, like, you think... (laughs) like, you-

Joe Rogan 1:12:21 Yeah. It's, it's really ridiculous now in hindsight, but I remember... I mean, I was in high school at the time. It was a big thing.

Chris Robinson 1:12:27 Well, they're telling you what to do, again.

Joe Rogan 1:12:30 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:12:30 You know what I mean? And a lot of it was racist.

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:12:32 Do you know what I mean? That-

Joe Rogan 1:12:33 Oh, yeah. But it was like... Well, I guess I was outta high school. It was like when rap music was really starting to emerge and those lyrics were so shocking, like early Ice-T, Ice Cube, all that stuff.

Chris Robinson 1:12:43 I mean, it happened with rock and roll. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Sure.

Chris Robinson 1:12:46 Once kids-

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Elvis Presley. They wouldn't let him shake his hips on TV.

Chris Robinson 1:12:48 I mean, it happened-

Joe Rogan 1:12:49 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:12:49 ... with Chuck Berry too.

Joe Rogan 1:12:51 Mm-hmm. Yep.

Chris Robinson 1:12:51 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 Yep, yep.

Chris Robinson 1:12:52 And then there's that... The initial phase of... the, the cosmic fucking blood and brimstone of rock and roll is... ends-

Joe Rogan 1:13:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:13:02 ... pretty quickly when it starts, and then you... turning into like the Paul Anka, Pat Boone sort of style until the ear- until The Beatles really come back around. I mean, there's-

Joe Rogan 1:13:11 Right, right.

Chris Robinson 1:13:12 You know, you have lots of cool records in between there, but they're ver- they're, they're small.

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 But it's interesting like that, where things come in waves.

Chris Robinson 1:13:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 They come in waves of great artists, for whatever reason.

Chris Robinson 1:13:24 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:25 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:13:25 Well, I think...... I mean, I, I mean, at least if you look at, like, when I look at my age people, we were just, we were close enough to the Beatles and close enough to the Sex Pistols. And close, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:13:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:13:37 And the Stones and Zeppelin. That shit's long gone for a lot of younger people.

Joe Rogan 1:13:42 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:13:42 You know, as ti- as time moves on.

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 Yeah.

Chris Robinson 1:13:45 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 I have to ask you a question because, before I forget. Did Rick Rubin try to get you guys to change the name of your band?

Chris Robinson 1:13:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:13:52 And did he really try to get you to change the-

Chris Robinson 1:13:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:13:54 ... name of the band to KKK? The Cobb-

Chris Robinson 1:13:56 Yes, he-

Joe Rogan 1:13:57 ... County Crows?

Chris Robinson 1:13:58 I know that the king of, uh, yoga or whatever the fuck he's selling-

Joe Rogan 1:14:03 (laughs)

Chris Robinson 1:14:04 ... or whatever the, you know. Uh, or whatever his, you know. But under that beard, that f- that guy. And it's funny because good for Rick Rubin, whatever. He can do whatever he want. I don't, you know, he, he has very little... But he did say that, that's a, that's a true story.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 Well, so how-

Chris Robinson 1:14:19 And by the way, it was unimaginably offensive. Unimaginably, uh, why would you say that to us? You know what I mean? Like you have no idea-

Joe Rogan 1:14:31 Explain the conversation. How does it happen?

Chris Robinson 1:14:32 Because I think, well, we were, we, we were called Mr. Crowe's Garden, and it's a book. It's a, like a children's book from like the '20s called Mr. Crowe's Garden with an E. So it's a name, you know, he was Mr. Crow. And we were kind of, you know, into like psychode- you know, like it was our, whatever. That was the name of our band.

Joe Rogan 1:14:56 Mm-hmm.

Chris Robinson 1:14:56 So when we made Shake Your Money Maker, uh, a few years had gone by since we first were Mr. Crowe's Garden and now we don't sound like that. And, uh, and George Chakoulias, our producer and our A&R guy and our lifeline to the w- to the music business, to the world, uh, (clears throat) who signed us and stuff. He was like, "We need, you know, new, gotta change the name." So there was a little bit of time where, before we said we'll be The Black Crows. And that's when