Joe Rogan Experience #2181 - Alan Graham

1. 0:00 – 1:04

   Meeting Alan Graham and why his model stands out for homelessness

   1. AGAlan Graham0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right. Hello, Alan.

   3. AGAlan Graham0:13

      Hey, uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What's happening?

   5. AGAlan Graham0:14

      Uh, well, I'm here on the Joe Rogan Experience, man. That's, uh, that's what's happening for Alan, so.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      (laughs) Push this thing up, uh, get it, like, pretty close to your face. There we go.

   7. AGAlan Graham0:23

      Yeah. Great. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Um, thanks for doing this, man. Um, I'm- I was very curious to meet you and I'd, uh, heard so much about you from, uh, John Paul DeJorio and, you know, what you're doing. And we've always wondered, like, there's always been these questions, like, how do you put a dent in the homeless situation? Like, what can be done? And what I see from you is probably the best example, the best possible example I've ever seen. And going to your place, going to see this community that you've established, and how you, you give these people hope and, and a purpose. It's really pretty amazing stuff.

   9. AGAlan Graham1:01

      Well, I appreciate that much. Yeah.

2. 1:04 – 2:18

   From a “roach coach” meal truck to founding Mobile Loaves & Fishes (1998)

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:04

      How did you get started on this journey? And when? How long have you been doing it?

   2. AGAlan Graham1:10

      Well, Joe, the, uh, the organization's 26 years old. So founded it in, uh, 1998. It was just a simple idea to start going out on the streets and feeding people out with a catering truck, what many of our friends would call a roach coach. And, uh, I, I got this idea, uh, built on a conversation that my wife and I had with a girlfriend of ours who was telling us about a ministry in Corpus Christi, Texas where on cold winter nights multiple churches would come together and pool their resources to take out to the men and women that were on the streets in the winter in, uh, in Corpus. And at that moment, the image of this catering truck came out of my psych- subconscious mind into my conscious brain, um, as a distribution mechanism from those of us that have abundance to those that lack. And, uh, uh, that was pretty, pretty simple. And as a serial real estate entrepreneur, um, I thought that that idea was a brilliant idea. Of course, every idea that you come up with is a brilliant idea-

3. 2:18 – 7:51

   A spiritual retreat shifts faith from intellectual to heart-level commitment

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:18

      Yeah.

   2. AGAlan Graham2:18

      ... when you're a serial entrepreneur. And, um, um, it just blew up in a, in a positive way. But it really began a couple of years prior to that on a spiritual retreat, uh, that I went to at my church, uh, that I was invited to. And, um, had I known that a bunch of guys were gonna get together and hold hands and kind of do that bromance, hugging it out, I, I, I'd have never gone.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      (laughs)

   4. AGAlan Graham2:46

      But I end up in this re- retreat for 30 hours of, uh, of handholding and bromance, hugging it out, and had a, had a pretty powerful experience that, uh, really just led me, uh, to going, "God, what do you want me to do?" I mean, I wasn't asking for anything big. It's just, you know, what are the little things that I can go out there and do? And it was through that and a series of things that, uh, led to the founding, and then, uh, ultimately the founding of the community. So ...

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:16

      So it was essentially this one retreat, you get this vision of just wanting to do something. And this is, uh, wh- why, why did you concentrate on homeless people? Like, what was it about that?

   6. AGAlan Graham3:29

      Um, y- you know, o- out of the retreat, the idea was fundamentally to ... What can I do at church, you know? I can become a lector. My wife can go do the nursery. Uh, you know, we get our kids involved in the, in, in, in the thing. Uh, the intellectual relationship that I had with, uh, Jesus, 'cause there was an intellectual side to this, d- during that retreat just kind of dropped a floor into the depths of the cave of my heart. And so there was a different relationship that I was experiencing with, with Christ.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:09

      What do you, what do you mean by that? Like, you had an intellectual relationship and then yet a different relationship?

   8. AGAlan Graham4:13

      Well, well, well, look. There, there are elements of the Christian faith, uh, that would, y- you know, first begin with, you know, the, um, uh, you know, that the angel of the Lord came to a s- poor Jewish 14-year-old little girl and impregnated her with the power of the Holy Spirit. That's a weird, uh, thought that you gotta buy into. From that, uh, the Son of God is going to be born a virgin birth. Y- he's gonna be on this Earth for a period of time, and then he's gonna end up being executed. Uh, and he's gonna rise from the dead, descend into hell, um, then ascend into heaven. Uh, but prior to that, he hangs out for another 40 days, uh, with his brothers. These are incredulous things to believe.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:15

      Right.

   10. AGAlan Graham5:16

       And so at some point in time you have to end up in this intellectual space where you're just kind of going, "Okay. I'm gonna believe that m- my faith is going to drive me there." So, um, when my wife, uh, prior to 1996, s- started taking our children back to mass on Sunday and I wasn't part of that, I, I began to look at that as the train was leaving the station. And, uh, my father had left us when I was young and, uh, divorced my mentally ill, uh, mother and left me and my three brothers, you know, uh, almost stuck with a, uh, a mentally ill, uh, beautiful mom, uh, but struggling, uh, mom.... and I begin to look at, uh, Tricia, uh, who we will celebrate 40 years this year, kind of gets me emotional thinking about it, um, as taking our children and leaving the house, the train leaving the station, and I'm sitting back, fixing to get ready to go into the office to do some work on a Sunday, 'cause, you know, we're both kind of, uh, serial workaholic types. And, uh, I decided to jump back on that train and begin to really explore, uh, my Catholic faith. And through that process, I, I just got enamored with the church. And when I talk about the church, I'm talking about the whole thing, uh, the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Church, the Protestant, uh, Church, the schisms, the heresy, the wars, the reformations. And, and I got enamored with maybe one of the greatest novels ever written in mankind. What a train wreck this whole deal is. Yet, at the center of that deal remains, uh, this Jesus of Nazareth. And, uh, so, uh, uh, that was very intellectual, uh, for me. And, um, and, and I was buying into it. My faith was buying into it. I was believing in it. I wanted to believe into it, but I had no factual things to take me there. This retreat, uh, took that intellectual stuff and dropped it a floor, right, right into the depths of my, my heart. And that's where the change, uh, really began to occur. It became more of a heart relationship with Christ as opposed to a, uh, intellectual thing.

4. 7:51 – 13:29

   Belief, doubt, and the “Incredulity of Thomas” as a lens on faith

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:51

      So when, when you talk about these specific concepts that are hard for people to wrap their heads around, like the resurrection, and like (sighs) the virgin birth, all, all of these things, like wh- how do you... What do you do with that in your mind when you say you have an intellectual relationship with it? When you come across something that seems impossible, what... How do you, how do you manage that in your mind? Like, what, how do you approach it?

   2. AGAlan Graham8:20

      Well, uh, uh, you know, look, uh, I think there are just some things in the world that you just have to be willing, uh, to accept the immensity of, uh, of the unknown, uh, basically. And, and, and you and I live in a universe of the unknown.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:40

      Mm-hmm.

   4. AGAlan Graham8:40

      Uh, we would all agree, and I think science would agree, that there are, there are things that we know, but it, it's, it's probably extraordinarily limited. Obviously, much more than we knew 5 or 600 years ago, but-

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:56

      Right.

   6. AGAlan Graham8:56

      ... but, but today, um, we're not even, uh... You know, I was talking to somebody today about transistors, you know? And if you go back to the Apollo days, and your little radio that you could dial in, you could open it up and you could see the little transistors that are in there.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:14

      Mm-hmm.

   8. AGAlan Graham9:14

      Well, now we're putting a, a million of them on the very edge of a f- the size of a fingernail, um, you know? And you and I can't comprehend that, but I believe it, but I can't see it. And, and, and I know people do, uh, see that. So you and I live in a world basically where we're having to accept things, for the most part, that we, that we can't.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:38

      Well, sort of. The transistor thing, like, first of all, we have schematics, we understand how they work.

   10. AGAlan Graham9:44

       Yeah. Sure.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       We can look at them with microscopes, you understand the process of putting them on these chips. It's like, this is, it's very scalable, and it's also... There's a, a real paper trail of when they were fir- Uh, do you know the whole s- the whole story of how transistors first appeared? It's very fascinating. It's, uh, one of the most, uh, you wanna talk about mysterious things, one of the more interesting things about the UFO folklore is that they believe that we have back engineered some of our advances from crashed crafts, and the transistor is one of them that sort of comes out of nowhere. Another one is fiber optics. They all sort of seem to come out sometime around 1947 after the Roswell crash.

   12. AGAlan Graham10:26

       Yeah. Well, you know, and-

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:29

       Just for a little kooky piece of trivia.

   14. AGAlan Graham10:32

       Yeah, but I haven't ever seen a UFO, so, uh, you know, and I'm gonna believe, I'm gonna, you know... Yeah, maybe?

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:39

       (laughs)

   16. AGAlan Graham10:40

       You know, maybe that's, that's the-

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       Do you believe in that? Do you believe that, like, God has created other life forms in other places?

   18. AGAlan Graham10:47

       I, I believe it's completely possible. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm cut out of the doubting Thomas, if you're familiar with, uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:55

       Mm-hmm.

   20. AGAlan Graham10:56

       ... the Apostle, uh, Thomas, I'm cut out of that cloth. Uh, um, there's a great, uh, image, uh, and it's a image in our sanctuary at the, in the village of, uh, Caravaggio, called The Incredulity of Thomas. And it's got, uh, Thomas sticking his finger into the wound of Jesus with, uh, what I believe are the Apostle Peter and Paul looking over, uh, the top.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:22

       There it is. Yeah.

   22. AGAlan Graham11:22

       Yeah. And, um, I, I speak in that. I have a, I have a talk that I give called The Gospel Con Carne, which is the Gospel with meat. But that woundedness, that, that, uh, th- I mean, Thomas... You know, when the, when the boys came to him after the resurrection and said, "Jesus is alive," he basically said, "Bullshit. I'm not gonna believe it until I see the nail marks in his feet and stick my finger in his side." And this is the phenomenal, uh, depiction of that by Caravaggio. Uh, and Thomas, if you really look at it, look at his face, bro. Look at the grimaced, uh, uh, forehead, his eyeballs, uh, you can't see it very well on this screen, but his eyeballs can't even look at him putting his finger in that deal.... and then, uh, he's got the torn garments, like he's, uh, homeless. And then, y- you look at Christ, and, you know, Christ's face does... I mean, it... I don't know how you can paint that kind of compassion, and then his arm, uh, hand over the forearm of Thomas, guiding that finger in, in the most gentlest way, and the boys looking over the top of that deal. And look, these are all fishermen, people f-

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       Mm-hmm.

   24. AGAlan Graham12:43

       ... from ... And I have no doubt in my mind that they're looking at that and going, "WTF?"

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Yeah, for sure.

   26. AGAlan Graham12:49

       I mean, in... 'Cause they were, they were just guys.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       Right.

   28. AGAlan Graham12:53

       Yeah. And, um, and but at that moment, he uttered, uh, you know, um, uh, that, that he believes, you know? "My Lord, my God," is what he said. And, um, and so, you know, there's, there's always the doubt and the... You know, whether there's aliens or not, I, I don't know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:18

       Mm-hmm.

   30. AGAlan Graham13:18

       But I would be an idiot to say, "I absolutely don't know."
5. 13:29 – 17:03

   Childhood trauma, Alan’s mother, and faith as relief—not argument

   1. AGAlan Graham13:29

      I approach religion from a faith, um, level. I w- I was raised, uh, my, my mom, when she went into a mental hospital when I was four years old and spent a year there, subjected to the most powerful psychotropic drugs known to man, electric shock therapy, the whole deal.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:50

      Oof.

   3. AGAlan Graham13:50

      My da- my da- my dad, uh, files for a divorce during that period of time, attempts to strip my mother of her maternal rights, uh, of her four boys. Uh, my mom wins all that because she had great parents. Uh, she gets out, and at some point in time, she converts to Roman Catholicism and drags me and my brothers to, to church and the whole deal. I w- I was four or five, so I don't have much memory of that, but I have a lot of memory of the love that my mother had for Christ and Mary, and, um, when, when, when you're in love with somebody that has profound behavioral health issues, like my mom had, and you see that Christ and his mother, Mary, uh, brought tremendous relief to my mom, uh, that has an impact on you. So I, I go into this with faith, complete faith, and I'm, I'm just released of trying to figure out, um, is it right or is it wrong? And I'm, I'm-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:02

      Right.

   5. AGAlan Graham15:02

      ... released of having to prove to people. I, uh, you know, I don't get into apologetic arguments with people. This is just who I am and how I express who I am.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      That is one of the more fascinating things about people that are very religious, is that whether or not you think they're correct or not, it obviously has a profound effect on them, and then this relief of release like you're, you're discussing is obviously h- hugely beneficial to people and to communities, and it motivates people to do beautiful things, like what you've done.

   7. AGAlan Graham15:37

      Yeah. No. That's, uh ... You know, look if, uh, if, if God is the creator, he's created all this. So what I tell people all the time, you know, that want to get into a different argument about this or that or the other, I just go, "Look, man. Uh, y- you know, God created all this. He's gonna have to sort all the bullshit out. I, I'm not the sorter-outer."

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:00

      (laughs)

   9. AGAlan Graham16:00

      Um, uh, but this is how I'm going to live, uh, my life to the best that I possibly can, which is simple. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. So that's what we're gonna do. Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       Yeah, and it's a beautiful way to live. It really is. And it's, uh, interesting that some people would dismiss it, and even dismiss the beauty of it because they're opposed to the idea of it being attached to religion.

   11. AGAlan Graham16:27

       Well, if you look at what we, uh, humans have done in the name of religion, or even non-religion, over the course of our entire history here on Earth, uh, we, we've screwed the pooch.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:45

       Yeah. We've also made a lot of great advances.

   13. AGAlan Graham16:48

       Com- tremendous-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       You know?

   15. AGAlan Graham16:49

       ... advances.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       We have penicillin now.

   17. AGAlan Graham16:50

       Thank God. Huh?

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       (laughs) I said we have penicillin now.

   19. AGAlan Graham16:53

       Oh, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       You know, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. We have, um, ruined a lot of things, but you would not want to be alive 5,000 years ago. It would have been fucking barbaric, I think.

6. 17:03 – 21:13

   Camino de Santiago: pilgrimage, providence, and “life as the way”

   1. AGAlan Graham17:03

      Well, look, I just got back. Uh, I mean, last year I walked the Camino de Santiago. I'm going back in September.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:09

      What is that?

   3. AGAlan Graham17:10

      That's a, um, a pilgrimage. Uh, today, in a funny way, is, um, and almost providential, is the feast of Saint James the Apostle and, um, it is believed that the bones of Saint James the Apostle are buried, uh, in Santiago de Compostela, Spain. For over 1,000 years, there have been these pilgrimages, and a half a million people will do that pilgrimage this year, um, walking, uh, along a 500-mile journey, which I did last year, and I'm going back in September to do another 300 miles, uh, along one of the most medieval journeys on the planet, going from one little small medieval Spanish town, uh, another until you get to Santiago, where the bones of the apostle are buried. Uh, and so it's a, it's a pilgrimage.

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:08

      Oh, wow.

   5. AGAlan Graham18:08

      It's one of the three great pilgrimage, pilgrimage to Rome, uh, pilgrimage to Mecca. Uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:13

      How long does it take?

   7. AGAlan Graham18:14

      Well, if you try to do the whole 500, um-... of six weeks.

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:19

      Wow.

   9. AGAlan Graham18:19

      It can be done faster if you're, um, if you're in Joe Rogan's shape. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:24

       (laughs)

   11. AGAlan Graham18:25

       Yeah. If you're in Alan Graham's shape, we're gonna, we're gonna take a little time. But you really wanna saunter through the deal as opposed to, you know, power.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:33

       Mm-hmm. Right.

   13. AGAlan Graham18:34

       Power through it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:35

       And just take in the experience.

   15. AGAlan Graham18:36

       Yeah, and, um, you know, uh, although people from all walks of life walk this deal, it's a very Roman Catholic deal, because all the churches in all these small towns are Roman Catholic churches. And it goes back into medieval time when the, um, uh, um, you know, when the Crusades were going down and there was the battle between the Christians and the Sarracens and, you know, all that. It's just, it's, it's, it's a magnificent experience.

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       And when you do these things, what do you get out of that? Like, what does it do for you?

   17. AGAlan Graham19:11

       Well, last year, the purpose was to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Mobile Loaves & Fishes and, um ...

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       Congratulations on that, by the way.

   19. AGAlan Graham19:19

       Yeah. Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       Very, very impressive.

   21. AGAlan Graham19:22

       Um, it, um ... You know, for me, it's a, it's a s- ... You know, I'm going back in September and I have two of my kids, uh, eh, going with me, so it's gonna be this great spiritual opportunity to journey. And then along the way, uh, God brings into your life, uh, people from all walks of life. And y- you don't know, uh, the impact of people coming into your life. Like I ... You know, look, I believe I'm sitting in this chair right now, uh, because of how, uh, God has architected us over a few years, uh, coming together and n- now, now we're here. And s- and so, um, life is a Camino, which means the way, and, um, um, you know, you and I are on this journey and lots of things come into our world that just kinda come out of, you know, the e- ether.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:32

       Yeah.

   23. AGAlan Graham20:32

       And, uh, appear. So why not create as many opportunities in our lives? M- many people want to architect how things are gonna go in their life and they gotta have it precise and planned and this.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       Mm-hmm.

   25. AGAlan Graham20:44

       And, uh, this is a very unplanned, uh ... I, I don't know where we'll be sleeping on any given night. I don't know who we're going to encounter at any given night. I don't know what restaurant we're gonna be in on any given, uh, night or where we're gonna eat a meal or, you know, who we're gonna meet. And so there's just a l- there's a lot of providence that's, that's in this journey, in, in this pilgrimage. It's cool. It's something that would blow a Joe Rogan away.

7. 21:13 – 28:55

   Why Community First! Village works: refueling dreams and building belonging

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:13

      I'm sure. It is, it is always interest- it- interesting to me when those moments do have, when, you know, someone enters your life, you meet someone and you just go, "I j- I wanna know more about the way you think. I wanna know more about what you're doing." And, uh, the way I was introduced to you, we went, my wife and I went to, uh, a fundraiser. And you had this incredible demonstration of what you're doing and what your organization is all about. And then maybe more importantly, you came out and talked, and the way you talked was with no ego and with kindness and with sincerity. And immediately, I thought, "Uh, I wanna talk to that guy. I wanna find out what's going on with him." You know, there's people that you meet that are, like, extraordinarily peaceful and extraordinarily content, and that's how, that's how you seem to me. And when you were on that stage talking, I was saying to my wife, "Oh, we gotta get his information. I wanna get him on the podcast. I wanna talk to him. I just wanna find out what's going on with him." 'Cause yeah, I think you're a very unusual person 'cause a l- there's a lot of people out there that profess to be Christians, they profess to be whatever their denomination is, whatever their religion is, but they don't necessarily live it. Like you, you abandoned your, uh, beautiful house and moved into one of these tiny homes in this homeless community and then when we went and toured the community and got to see how you interact with everybody, it's, it's beautiful. It's really very extraordinary. And I don't think there's very many people that would do that, what you've done. You live with them, you, th- you feed them, they have all these activities, different things to do, different ways to make a living. There's always people that are extraordinary artists. Just really amazing, impressive art that some of these unfortunate souls ... You know, they have all this creative ability, but they just have nowhere to put it and nothing to do and no hope and no understanding of how to get out of this. And no one around them is getting out of it either and they're sort of trapped. And then you come along and you find great value in these people, you know? And they find incredible value in this community that you've created. And the community is constantly expanding, while we were there, we were there, you were showing us about this new area that you guys are developing, where you can expand it. It's really amazing stuff because it's an example of someone who's actually doing it. You know, you're actually living that life. You're, you're actually contributing in an inc- incredibly positive way to all those different human beings, the hundreds of different human beings that you encounter with this and how much you've shaped and changed their lives. It's very beautiful. It really is.

   2. AGAlan Graham24:14

      Well, the, um, the interesting thing is that they've, uh ... How they have shaped my life and that's, uh...... that, that, that's where the miracle sits, and when, when you drive around Austin or you drive around LA, uh, you know, where you came from, and, uh, or any city in the United States, and, and you, you see this catastrophe that's unfolded on our streets, of all of our urban cities, it, it appears to be hopeless. It's just a mess. And what we wanna do is be able to bring people into our village and let them see that there is hope, unbelievable hope if we do this right, if we get our act together as a civil society and begin to do things for people, when we begin to learn... You know, and what, how I like to describe this is I say to people, you know, and, and people will, you know, they've got this stereotype of the men and women out there. They're dope addicts, they're alcoholics, they're mentally ill, they've chosen this, uh, they're lazy. Um, and I said, "Look, and, um, imagine being a 12-year-old little boy or girl. You're laying in bed at night, and you're in between, you're in that twilight area between being, uh, uh, asleep and awake. You're looking out the window at the starry, starry night, and you're dreaming about what you're gonna be when you grow up." I can tell you that my dreams at 12 were three things. One, uh, I wanted to be a rock star.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:59

      (laughs) Did you really?

   4. AGAlan Graham26:01

      Sure.

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:02

      Which, which-

   6. AGAlan Graham26:02

      Play- played guitar. Had a Fender Mustang. Was in a band. Um, uh, you know, uh, remember playing the song Bad by Cream, I think. Uh, uh, you know?

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:16

      (laughs)

   8. AGAlan Graham26:16

      Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce, uh, deal. Um, football, I played football. Was a, a, you know, moderately decent football player, uh, at one time. Thought I could play in the NFL. Uh, you've seen my DNA, you realize that, uh, that was never possible, but it was still a dream.

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:34

      (laughs)

   10. AGAlan Graham26:35

       Um, and then I wanted to be a jet fighter pilot.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:38

       Wow.

   12. AGAlan Graham26:38

       You know? And, um, you know what's amazing is I'm, I'm, I'm 68 years old today, and if I'm driving and I've got AC/DC cranking in the car, guess who was on stage playing that guitar and singing that song? It's not Angus Young or Bon Scott or Brian Johnson, it's Alan Graham doing that. Or if I'm watching a great football game, you know, and I see, um, somebody throw a great pass or do a great block or a hit or something like that, I go back in time. Or if I see a F-22 screaming across the sky, I still dream today, and I tell people one of my favorite smells on the face of the planet is burning jet fuel. I love being on airports. I became a private pilot. I don't fly now, but many years ago. So the embers of that, those little boy and girl dreams are still inside of us. You had 'em, I don't know what they were, uh, at that time, and then somebody came in and poured fuel on top of those little boy, uh, Joe Rogan dreams that now have you, uh... 'Cause you couldn't be laying in bed at night going, "Hey man, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm dreaming of doing the Joe Rogan experience thing." That wasn't on the plate.

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:00

       This thing was never on the plate.

   14. AGAlan Graham28:02

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:02

       I don't know what happened with this thing.

   16. AGAlan Graham28:03

       No, that's exactly... But, but somebody was fueling whatever your dreams were along the way until you got to the dream that the world needed you to be in.

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:16

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AGAlan Graham28:17

       And for these men and women who lost their family completely, uh, and nobody there, uh, to pour fuel on those embers that were burning, uh, that's really what we're doing. So when you come into our art house like you did and you see, uh, the artwork that's being produ- the Van Goghs that are being produced, uh, by men and women that are on the street, w- we as a society are missing out. And yeah, look, we got the crack addicts and the glue sniffers and the prostitutes and the convicted felons. All, all that comes with the package.

8. 28:55 – 29:49

   Safety, rules, and realities: low-barrier entry with “civil obedience”

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:55

      Yeah, um, how do you do, how do you do that to make it safe for the other people there? Like, if you do have the, you know, the bank robbers and all the, the people that are live a dangerous life and they find themself homeless and, how do you, do you screen those people out? Like, what do you do?

   2. AGAlan Graham29:15

      Uh, we do very little, uh, screening. We wanna know who you are, uh, but, uh, it's a very low barrier entry to get into our, uh, deal. We, we demand civil obedience. I will tell you that over the course of my life, I have personally known, uh, thousands of dope addicts and alcoholics. Uh, most of them are just good people.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:47

      Isn't that crazy?

   4. AGAlan Graham29:48

      Yeah.

9. 29:49 – 39:03

   Culture, fear, and polarization: how society dehumanizes the unhoused

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:49

      I think that's the case with all people. I think most people are good people, but we are so, uh, we're so... We gravitate so much to, uh, elevated thret- threat levels that we, we concentrate on the bad people all the time. It's like the news, right? The news doesn't show you all the news. It shows you what's scary. There's a lot of beautiful things that are happening all the time that the news never highlights. The news just gets you freaked out about global warming, nuclear war, economic collapse. Is that really Biden or is that a guy in a Biden suit? Whatever it is, it's just more crazy things that get you freaked out, but...... the majority of your inter- your interactions with other people, the majority of your experiences with people are pretty positive-

   2. AGAlan Graham30:41

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:41

      ... for the most part, even considering all this stress that everybody's under, all the time. Bills that can't be paid, relationships that suck, jobs that you got fired from, all these different things. Hopes and dreams that are crushed, flat tire, bad transmission, fuck. Most people are good. Most people. That's why you can go on the highway and everybody, for the most part, is doing what they're supposed to do.

   4. AGAlan Graham31:04

      Working together, man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:05

      Yeah. When, when someone doesn't, it's like, "What is... Look at this asshole-"

   6. AGAlan Graham31:08

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:08

      "... fucking dr- driving like an asshole." But for the most part, the vast majority of people are letting you into the lane. They're all pretty much adhering close to the speed limit.

   8. AGAlan Graham31:21

      Well, here, here are the numbers. 400 formerly chronically homeless men and women living in our community. Average time on the streets is nine years. At any given time, 15 to 20 are giving us a run for the money. 380 to 85 are just fine.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:45

      When you say giving us a run for the money, like, what's the worst case scenario? (sniffs)

   10. AGAlan Graham31:48

       Well, um, you know, they're bringing, um, you know, d- Most everything that happens negatively out there is gonna be related to dope and alcohol. Uh, so, uh, you may have the onsite dope dealer that we gotta manage and figure out how to either tone that down or get them out of there, uh, that kind of thing. The really aggressive meth or crack cocaine addicts are gonna be stealing you- somebody's bicycle or a debit card to go buy, you know, something. Or sometimes we have, uh, the confluence of a profound mental health issue and drugs coming at the same time, and they, they'll get destructive on their property. Uh, those kind of things. It's the, the reality of the whole world that we live in, uh, in a microcosm there, uh, at the Community First! Village.

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:45

       And it's probably similar numbers. (laughs)

   12. AGAlan Graham32:47

       Well, it's, uh, th- that, that, that's right. You, you... Look, we go everywhere every day, all the time, and we're safe.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       Mm-hmm.

   14. AGAlan Graham32:55

       We, we live a great life, uh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       Yeah, for the most part.

   16. AGAlan Graham32:58

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:58

       It's just these threat things that people concentrate on-

   18. AGAlan Graham33:03

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:03

       ... that f- You know, that we're engineered to try to stay alive. That's what, what our DNA's all about. Like, if you wanna procreate, if you wanna carry on your genetics, you wanna keep y- your loved ones alive, you gotta stay alive.

   20. AGAlan Graham33:14

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan33:14

       And so there's this fear, this constant fear, and it's crippling, you know? And because it's projected, it's projected both by the mainstream media and it's projected by social media algorithms. The things that you interact with the most, the things that freak you out the most or anger you the most are oftentimes the ones you see the most, because you interact with those and it's designed to keep you hooked.

   22. AGAlan Graham33:39

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan33:40

       And unfortunately, what that's doing is it's making us anxiety-ridden freaks.

   24. AGAlan Graham33:44

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:45

       And we're losing our understanding of humanity. You know, it's... And it's also extremely polarizing. I don't... We, we had a conversation about this at your place. You know, this, the, the m- the news today, it's like so... It's so polarizing. It's us versus them inside our country for, like, the first time in my life. I've ne- When I was a kid, when I was in high school, my parents were very liberal and they never talked disparagingly about conservative people or Republicans. They just thought they were wrong. That's all it was. Like, they had conservative friends. They would sit at the dinner table and have conversations about stuff, and maybe they'd argue. But it was always fine. It was just two human beings disagreeing on things. Now it's like everybody's a Nazi or everybody's a communist. It's like wh- (laughs) it's just one side is absolutely sure that they're right and the other side is absolutely sure that they're right, and it's just accentuated by everything we see. So when you can see someone like yourself in a microcosm put this together and make a real community of some of the most disparaged members of our society, the people that no- You, you look when they're trying to get money at the stoplight, you look away, you drive past them in their tents. "Jesus Christ, what's that guy doing in there?" You don't even think about them. The same type of person that might see someone with a flat tire and pull over, like, "Hey, buddy, you all right? Can I help you? Because you're me, I'm you." We're at the same sort of stratus in society. We're acceptable members of society with cars and homes and n- normal people with jobs, you know? "So I'll, I'll help you." But that guy over there, like...

   26. AGAlan Graham35:25

       Well, this is what we have to... You know, when you look at the purpose of Mobile Loaves & Fishes, our vision statement, the thing that drives our organization is that we empower communities into a lifestyle of service with the homeless, not to and for, with the homeless. This, metaphorically, is the same thing as pulling over and helping the guy change the flat tire. There's a guy-

   27. JRJoe Rogan35:51

       Yes.

   28. AGAlan Graham35:51

       ... on your street corner and u- up underneath that bridge that you pass every day. Can we pull over-

   29. JRJoe Rogan35:58

       Right.

   30. AGAlan Graham35:58

       ... and help them change that flat tire? That's, that's what this is all about.
10. 39:03 – 1:05:50

    Policy and history: camps, the word “homeless,” SRO housing loss, and mental health de-institutionalization

    1. AGAlan Graham39:03

       Well, did you see where, uh, Gavin Newsom issued an executive order today to clear all the camps in California?

    2. JRJoe Rogan39:09

       What does that mean, though?

    3. AGAlan Graham39:10

       Well, we don't know, but it comes out of that-

    4. JRJoe Rogan39:12

       Well, it's 'cause he wants to be president, right? Yeah.

    5. AGAlan Graham39:14

       Well, uh, you know, it's a political move for sure, but it's, uh, related to that Supreme Court ruling, the Grant pa- pass, uh, versus Johnson ruling that the Supreme Court just did. Uh, and, uh, so it's an interesting byproduct, uh, now of what we're, uh, what we're gonna witness.

    6. JRJoe Rogan39:31

       Well, it's a byproduct of people's absolute frustration and fury over this.

    7. AGAlan Graham39:38

       You know, what was interesting is, uh, I had a woman that worked for us, uh, a few years ago. And she was a PhD, English, classic, you know, very, very smart, learned person. And, um, uh, I asked one time, "Where- where did the word homeless come from?" And she went and researched it. And the first time that she could find it appeared back in, like, the 700s, uh, in a, in a, in a limerick from Ireland or something, an Irish limerick. And then it didn't reappear again until about the 15th, uh, 16th, 17th century type of thing. And it was, uh, not even hardly present. But, uh, when you get to the 1970s and '80s, um, the word became u- ubiquitous. And through a Google search, you can see that this word appears in every publication, on every news s- media staff. A million times every single day it just becomes... And why, in this window of time, basically the '70s, uh, you know, on, is that word so prevalent? Because we didn't, we didn't have this. When I moved from Austin, Texas, uh, I mean from Houston, Texas, the Houston area in 1976, there, there weren't people standing on our street corners begging. You- you- you had the, uh, you know, uh, the Otises from the, you know, Andy of Mayberry, the downtown chronic inebri- drunk downtown, but it wasn't ubiquitous-

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:18

       Mm-hmm.

    9. AGAlan Graham41:18

       ... on every single street corner. What- what the hell happened in the past 46, 7 years?

    10. JRJoe Rogan41:24

        What do you think happened since you're in it?

    11. AGAlan Graham41:27

        Well, uh, profound loss of family, culture of death, uh, within the c- you know, our community.

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:34

        Culture of death?

    13. AGAlan Graham41:35

        Culture of death. Just, uh, people not caring about other human beings. Uh, our individual rights, um, uh, superseding the rights of the community, uh, those kinds of things, our constitutional, individual rights. And I believe in our constitution. This isn't an anti-constitutional things. But, um, you know, recently, um, you know, on, on my Facebook, which is my only social media deal, uh, I'm a member of my high school thing. And, uh, uh, one of our assistant principals recently passed away, Coach York. And there were 500, 600 comments on Coach York. And 90% of 'em were from men who got into his office and ended up being paddled, you know, uh, during that period of time, and talking about how awesome Coach York was. And I couldn't tell you how many licks I got from Coach York during that...... period of time, 'cause I, I was a little turdball when I was in middle school and, and, uh-

    14. JRJoe Rogan42:48

        And that's what they used to do to kids.

    15. AGAlan Graham42:49

        That, that's what-

    16. JRJoe Rogan42:50

        They used to paddle you.

    17. AGAlan Graham42:50

        Yeah, used to paddle you.

    18. JRJoe Rogan42:51

        I got paddled when I lived in Florida.

    19. AGAlan Graham42:53

        Yeah. Well, you can't-

    20. JRJoe Rogan42:54

        (laughs)

    21. AGAlan Graham42:54

        ... you can't be paddled anymore. There's no discipline. You know?

    22. JRJoe Rogan42:57

        Right. I don't know if that's a good thing, though, to, to tell people that the way to discipline someone is to hit them. I don't think that's correct. I think that's a lazy approach. I think there's other ways to instill discipline.

    23. AGAlan Graham43:08

        Well, we have to learn how to discipline.

    24. JRJoe Rogan43:10

        Yeah, you have to learn-

    25. AGAlan Graham43:11

        Somehow, uh, because what-

    26. JRJoe Rogan43:11

        ... how to discipline. The problem is they're just dealing with large numbers of people, and that's the fallback, is to scare them-

    27. AGAlan Graham43:16

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan43:16

        ... and give them pain. It, uh, the problem is, you're encouraging people to hit other people, and then w- you, you encourage it as a form of punishment, and it's just not the way to go.

    29. AGAlan Graham43:27

        Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm just, uh, you know, saying that there was a different time-

    30. JRJoe Rogan43:31

        Yeah.
11. 1:05:50 – 1:30:24

    Scaling the model: replication symposiums, village “pillars,” and enabling work (not just begging)

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:05:50

       Mm. Right. So, who else besides yourself has ... Do you know of other places like your place, that they've done it in other cities around the country where-

    2. AGAlan Graham1:06:03

       Yeah, yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:03

       ... they've done something similar?

    4. AGAlan Graham1:06:04

       Yeah, there's replicators, uh, going on around the country. We-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:06:07

       I like how you said replicators.

    6. AGAlan Graham1:06:09

       We call them replicators.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

       (laughs)

    8. AGAlan Graham1:06:10

       Um, we have a replication operation at Mobile Loaves & Fishes. So three times a year, people fly in from all over the country, uh, sometimes from around the world, uh, to come and learn, uh, for two and a half days in an immersive, uh, two-and-a-half-day symposium-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:06:27

       Oh, interesting.

    10. AGAlan Graham1:06:27

        ... uh, what we're doing. So we-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:06:28

        So you're teaching people how to do it other places?

    12. AGAlan Graham1:06:30

        That's correct, and, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:06:31

        How many of them exist in the country right now?

    14. AGAlan Graham1:06:33

        Um, just gonna kind of pull a number. There's a couple of dozen happening around the US and more coming.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:06:43

        Is there a cohesive website where people can find these?

    16. AGAlan Graham1:06:46

        No.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:06:46

        No?

    18. AGAlan Graham1:06:47

        No. Uh, we'll probably have one someday. Uh, we argue, we debate, uh, wouldn't just call it argue, internally, you know, what is a replicator of the Community First! model? Uh-... there could be... Le- let's just hypothetically say that there are pillars associated with what we do, uh, you know. And, um, so how many pillars do you have to follow in order to actually be a, a real replicator? It's like a McDonald's deal. We... You know, we're not gonna be a McDonald's, because I can't get... We're not going to be able to manage people to do exactly, precisely what we do. And plus, how we do it in Austin, Texas is not necessarily how you're gonna do it in Minneapolis, Minnesota. But there are some characteristics of w- of what we do that we think are extremely important.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:07:42

        Mm-hmm. And so, these people that come to you, um, eh, th- how did they hear about you? How di- how did they hear that you were doing this and, like, have- have you had experiences with these people that explained their calling? Like, why they were brought to you to, to try to, uh, replicate this thing in their town?

    20. AGAlan Graham1:07:58

        Well, there's, um, uh... I mean, there are people all over the US that are working in the homeless space, that have been in this space, that are dealing with these people, looking for ways, uh, to compassionately move the needle on this deal and witnessing that we're, we're not doing a very good job in our country of moving, uh, the needle. And then, we've been all over the news. Th- this show is gonna have a giant impact. We're gonna get slammed, uh, frankly, uh, in a positive way, uh, by people interested in, in what we're doing. But we've also... The Today Show, 60 Minutes, uh, there's just been so much, uh, New York Times, that we've, uh, that we've gotten to experience. They just hear about us, uh, and we're pretty... I mean, we're pretty well-known. Uh, still controversial, but well-known.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:08:54

        Well, it's a beautiful thing you're doing, man. It really is. And when you go there and you experience it, you go, "Wow, I'm so happy there's someone like Alan out here doing this." And so happy that all those people that work with you are also equally moved to do it. 'Cause it just feels like you're doing something really good. And sometimes you don't see a lot of that in life. You know? You don't see a lot of, like, real selfless sacrifice and, eh, done under the spirit of just trying to do good.

    22. AGAlan Graham1:09:25

        I think, um, you know, through these symposiums and through the work, uh, there are a number of people, uh, out there in the US, you know, trying to figure things out. It's, um, the confluence of where I came from, out of the business community, uh, you know, m- may be kind of rare. People leaving, you know, one thing in order to jump into another thing but have had the experience of running, uh, operations the way that I, uh, ran those. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to really demonstrate to people that no matter what your leadership qualities are, no matter how well-spoken you might, uh, be able to articulate what's going on, there's a place for you to lead to make a difference in, uh, in, in your community. Because people will say, "I'm, I'm no Alan Graham." Well, thank God, number one, you're not. It doesn't take an Alan Graham to do this. Uh, but let me show you the pieces that it does take in order to make this happen and where you fit into that, that puzzle. That's what we try to do with our symposiums.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:10:40

        And what's interesting also, too, about the place that you have is you give these people an opportunity to learn things and to express themselves, and then these people wind up selling these things. Like, the artwork was truly extraordinary. Like, that- the person that's making those chess pieces, like, those are really intricate. Like, you look at something like that, like, that's very valuable. And a lot of the art is really incredible. And just think, like, how many people get affected and get moved by these pieces of art that would never experience it if these people didn't have an opportunity-

    24. AGAlan Graham1:11:14

        Well-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:11:14

        ... to express themselves.

    26. AGAlan Graham1:11:15

        ... uh, several years ago, my wife and I got really into Vincent van Gogh, and we've traveled around the world trying to see every publicly available van Gogh that we could possibly see. The van Gogh Museum in, um, in Amsterdam, uh, is, is incredible to learn that... You know, he, he started painting when he was 27 years old, committed suicide at 37.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:11:51

        Wow.

    28. AGAlan Graham1:11:52

        During his lifetime of artwork, he sold one painting.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:12:01

        (laughs)

    30. AGAlan Graham1:12:02

        He was an abject failure. And, um, uh, it's forensically believed that he was maybe schizoaffective, bipolar-schizoaffective. It's also rumored that he was possibly a drug addict. I forget the drug. He spent two years in an insane asylum in a little town in Arles, France, where he probably painted the most expensive art on the planet while he was in an insane asylum. And, um, uh, uh, a- and then it was post his death and because of his sister-in-law, his brother, uh, who died six months after van Gogh, who really exposed him, and he's con- cr- you know, considered one of the greatest artists of all, all-time history.... that's what I believe that we potentially have out there on the streets, are these Van Goghs. And y- you met Ute Dittmar, uh, a German woman who is gifted beyond all, uh, giftedness, and sold that chess set for 10,000 bucks, by the way.

Episode duration: 1:45:34