Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2194 - Luis Elizondo

Luis "Lue" Elizondo is the former head of the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which investigated UFOs, now referred to as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP). A veteran of the U.S. Army, he has worked in counterintelligence and counterterrorism worldwide. His new book, "Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs," is available now. https://luiselizondo-official.com

Joe RoganhostLuis "Lue" Elizondoguest
Aug 23, 20242h 15mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. JR

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. LE

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) What's up, Luke? How are you?

    4. LE

      Hey, sir. I'm doing better than I deserve.

    5. JR

      (laughs) Wow. That's a good statement.

    6. LE

      You know, there's an old, uh, old military saying, "Any, any day above ground's a good day."

    7. JR

      There you go. Um, so tell everybody what your official job was.

    8. LE

      Wow. Um, I had a lot of official jobs. Uh-

    9. JR

      With the government in regards to, you know...

    10. LE

      (laughs) You know.

    11. JR

      You know.

    12. LE

      Up. (laughs) .

    13. JR

      Those, you know, those things.

    14. LE

      Sure.

    15. JR

      One of these things. That's, uh, allegedly, uh, that's a replica of, um, the one that Bob LaSar worked on, the sport model.

    16. LE

      I, uh, I've heard that before.

    17. JR

      Yeah, designs_by_perry. Uh, the, the E with ... In Perry is a, a three, and he's a, a dude on Instagram that sent me that.

    18. LE

      Very cool.

    19. JR

      Pretty dope, right?

    20. LE

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      We have another one that looks just like it at the Mothership, at the comedy club. When you walk in, you walk right through, like, a, a giant suspended UFO.

    22. LE

      Very cool.

    23. JR

      So obviously, I have issues. (laughs)

    24. LE

      Well, y- you know what? This is a, a neat town. Um, I, I, I was strolling the streets yesterday and, um, I came across the, uh, the Texas Toy Museum. Now I'm not one for museums usually, but something I saw was ... It auto- automatically transported me back to when I was a kid. I'm, I'm an old guy, so I grew up '70s and early '80s.

    25. JR

      How old are you?

    26. LE

      52.

    27. JR

      I'm 57.

    28. LE

      So ... You are?

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. LE

      Man. Well, I look (laughs) 10 years older than you. (laughs)

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    Is this the Varginha…

    1. LE

      uh, about a, um, an event that occurred over several days in-

    2. JR

      Is this the Varginha incident?

    3. LE

      No, it's actually called Colares, uh, in Brazil.

    4. JR

      Oh, another one.

    5. LE

      Yeah, and, uh, the Colares incident, and, uh, they had tr- I mean, overwhelming number of eyewitnesses and there was even some, some video and, and photographs that they had produced internally there to Brazil, uh, and, um, it was overwhelming, the evidence. And for me that was... it was more listening to him and explain the concern they had and some of the interactions the, their, the Brazilian government officials had with these UAP that really ... I, I left there that, that dinner scratching my head and really at that point beginning to absorb the profoundness that we're, we're dealing with something that, like is, is real. This is not a cover plan for some other technology we're trying to protect. This-

    6. JR

      Did he show you this video evidence?

    7. LE

      So he was... it was... I was sitting at the... kind of like a table like this. There was a whole lot of people at the table. He was sitting at the head. I was kind of way down over here and he brought out a manila envelope and he was showing photographs to everybody, right? And, and some reporting as well. I think he brought, if I recall correctly, his daughter to translate, um, because I don't think English was his, his, you know, very good. It wasn't his language.Um, but for me that was... and I think for one of my colleagues too, which I probably can't say his name right now because he hasn't come out publicly yet. But, um, we both left that dinner, I think, scratching our heads and saying, "Wow, this is... so this is legit. This is real. The US government is interested in this and there is interest by our government." Um, as... after that dinner, um, attending more meetings and beginning to read the reports, the field reports and, and speaking to the scientists, it became evident to me that this was a very serious issue. We had near misses, uh, over some of our, our, our areas of operation, in some cases literally these, these UAP splitting a, a combat formation. Now if you know how planes fly-

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. LE

      ... they fly very close in a combat situation. Um, these things were splitting the formation, right? Um, that, that there were reports being, being provided through the Air Force, mostly through the Navy, uh, about air safety issues where, where pilots literally could, could run into these things, right? They're, they're, they're pervasive. It wasn't like a onesie and twosies.

    10. JR

      Was there ever an incident where a pilot or a jet did run into something?

    11. LE

      S- not that I'm aware of. What I can tell you that there has been incidents where there's... appears to be some sort of provocation where, uh, one of these things seems to be coming deliberately close to an aircraft, not necessarily trying to hit it, but maybe trying to demonstrate performance capabilities. There was (laughs) one video in particular, um, I haven't been cleared by the Pentagon, so let me see if I can speak about it in gen- general terms. Um, there's a pilot flying and a, a, a ... you can hear on the radio this chatter back and forth. Uh, "Do, do you see it? Do you have eyes down on it?" Pilot, "Nope, negative. No eyes down." "Uh, okay, you should have on radar." "Yeah, I got something on radar, but no eyes, no, can't see it." And then all of a sudden, um, a, a, a craft, a, a, a, an object goes whizzing right by the cockpit and I mean probably like 15 feet away. Uh, and, um, (laughs) you could hear the pilot, the expletives of the pilot, you know. I, I won't say it here on air, but you can imagine, right? Uh, what, what a pilot would say when they're very, very surprised. Um, that was one. There's, uh, there, there's ju-

    12. JR

      Can you describe what he saw?

    13. LE

      I think I can. I want to be careful that I don't, because again, I haven't had apr- what I, what I have approval to talk about-... I've, I've spoken about. Um, let me preface this by saying I still have my security clearance, uh, and on occasion, I still will consult for the US government, and so I wanna be very mindful. I, I have no problem going up all the way to the line.

    14. JR

      Right, understood.

    15. LE

      But if I put up, you know, (laughs) a pinky toe over that line, they're-

    16. JR

      Right, right, right, of course.

    17. LE

      ... they're gonna get me. Um, but it was a wedge-shaped craft.

    18. JR

      Wedge-shaped?

    19. LE

      Wedge-shaped. Um, like, triangular, but, um, um ... yeah, like a wedge. Like a ... I, I don't know how else to describe it. I could draw it for you if you want. Um, want me to draw it?

    20. JR

      Sure, you can.

    21. LE

      Yeah. Just give me a second.

    22. JR

      So, just, like, a wedge that you would, like, split wood with? Like that kind of a wedge?

    23. LE

      Um, yeah, but it was, it was silver metallic and, uh ... like a, like a diamond, maybe. That's a better way to describe it. Like a diamond, almost. Um, and it looked kinda like ... it looked, looked kinda like that, really.

    24. JR

      Okay.

    25. LE

      It was just a, just a little-

    26. JR

      And that ki- that kinda shape is something that's been reported multiple times.

    27. LE

      Um, so that was the first time I ever saw something like that.

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. LE

      To me, it was ... Keep in mind, I, I never followed this topic, so every time I'm seeing one of these videos, I'm kinda seeing something for the very first time. So, lenticular, whether it's a disc-shaped craft, or it's, it's a wedge-shaped craft, or a diamond-shaped craft, or a triangle-shaped craft, boomerang in some cases, um, these were all new to me, so it was very, very perplexing, and, and obviously, to our military pilots, it was very concerning. And I think when you, when you look at some of the gold standard cases we had, like the Nimitz, for example, that, that, that case, um, you know, you, you have this overwhelming number of sensors looking at the same thing going on that the pilots are reporting. And for, for me, that was most compelling, like I said, more than ... Eye witness testimony is important, but at the end of the day, you know, Grandma seeing some lights in our backyard doesn't really do it for me. You know, I've, I'm, I'm a fact-oriented kinda guy. I've, I've gotta see the data. Let the data provide us the information we need, so then we can make a conclusion, right? I'm not, you know ... If you start seeing UFOs in the sky everywhere, well, chances are, they're probably not, you know? It was a quadcopter, it's a balloon, it's an aircraft. It could be all sorts of things. Um, that's why I think, from our perspective, having the, the fundamental categories, the observables we call them, was so important, because they are so beyond what, what a normal aircraft, a traditional, conventional aircraft can do. At that point, you realize you're, you're dealing with some, some sort of beyond next generation technology, and that's when it gets compelling for, for guys like me, right?

    30. JR

      Right.

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    Right. …

    1. LE

      and yet these things that we are observing in some cases are doing ... I brought some more documents here ... multiples of, of mach, um, at, at, at, uh, and doing velocities and doing things that we frankly could not do back then, and frankly we still can't do in some cases. But temporally speaking, the only two countries in the world may, may have a chance of doing something like that would be Russia and China. And now in 1950, where was China? It was in the middle of a famine, uh, at the time. And where was Russia? Russia was, uh, trying to develop the atomic bomb and still was using horse-drawn carts, uh, for a lot of their military operations. So temporally speaking, it doesn't make sense. This is, this is the analogy I've used before, Joe, that it would be like, uh, sort of th- the Carter going into King Tut's tomb for the very first time in the 1920s, discovering King Tut's tomb, and when he goes in he finds a fully assembled 747 jet.... it, it doesn't make sense. T- temporally speaking-

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. LE

      ... they, they did not have that technology. So, is it possible, and I'll be very careful what I say, that the US government has some sort of exotic technology? Well, my answer is, I sure hope so, because, uh, you know, we wanna have an advantage over our adversaries. But in 1950, that wasn't the case.

    4. JR

      Right. And do they have any film of these crafts from New Mexico?

    5. LE

      There is film of many craft, and not just New Mexico, per se, but over many military installations. Here, I got another one for you. I'll, I'll provide you. Um, you don't want to have to waste your time reading it, but the, uh, I think you'll appreciate this. Um, take a look at the date of this and who it's to and who it's from, and I think you'll find the subject line very interesting.

    6. JR

      Okay, which one, um ... What part of my reading here?

    7. LE

      Just a highlighted portion, so you can see the top of the document, who it's from, who it's to, and the date, and what the subject line is.

    8. JR

      Uh, Director of Special Investiga- ... What does it say? It's, it's hard 'cause it's all scratchy, you know?

    9. LE

      Yeah. It's an, it's an old reproduction of a official government docu- ... Bottom line, it's a, it's a document, uh-

    10. JR

      Is that a-

    11. LE

      ... from J. Edgar Hoover-

    12. JR

      Oh. Oh, I see.

    13. LE

      ... from the director of the FBI.

    14. JR

      Okay. It's Director General, Department of the Air Force, the Pentagon. Yeah, J. Edgar Hoover, Director of Federal Bureau of Investigations. So this-

    15. LE

      And the subject ... Read the subject line of that memo.

    16. JR

      Flying ... It's ... God, it's ... God. It's hard to read 'cause it's all screwy.

    17. LE

      Flying disks, it should say. Flying disks over the savanna. It's a, uh, there's a, uh, sensitive facility that we had where we were doing, uh, atomic, uh, development. And-

    18. JR

      Yeah. Flying disks reportedly seen in the vicinity of the something River Plant?

    19. LE

      Savanna River Plant. Yes, sir.

    20. JR

      Okay.

    21. LE

      That's correct. And so, that's just-

    22. JR

      Atomic Energy-

    23. LE

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      ... Commission.

    25. LE

      And the date of that being, you know, 1952, right?

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. LE

      So, so-

    28. JR

      So this is an offi- ... This is verified? This is-

    29. LE

      That was released by the government. That is a off- ... Those are all official. All these are official US government documentation that anybody can pull up any time they want.

    30. JR

      Did they let you see any of these ancient films? These films from the 1950s of these things?

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Jesus. …

    1. LE

      Uh, the speed was calculated between 450 and 550 knots underwater, and it was bigger than the offshore derrick that it was passing. 'Cause you could see in the video the offshore derrick and you could see this thing zip right by it.

    2. JR

      Jesus.

    3. LE

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      So that's a lot of them, right? A lot of them are reported as being transmedium.

    5. LE

      Right. So that... E- exactly. Why, why do we use the term UAP, right? Now it's unidentified anomalous phenomenon because it's all domain. Initially it was UFO, unidentified flying object, and for several reasons they changed the name. One of them, not just because of stigma like people think, but because the word flying object means flight.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. LE

      And you have to have wings to fly. That's flight. And these things don't have wings. So that term we're not even sure is even accurate anymore because they're not necessarily flying. We see them underwater, we see them super high altitude, uh, so the term was changed to unidentified aerial phenomenon, but again that did not encompass all the observations we were seeing. So now the term UAP, I think the latest description of it is unidentified anomalous phenomenon to help describe this multi-domain or transmedium characteristic that we are beginning to see and record that these things can do. And that, that is... I'm gonna... If I can digress for a second, because that's super important, Joe.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. LE

      We have transmedium vehicles, right? We have things like seaplanes and it's a plane and it can float on water, but let's face it, a seaplane is neither a really good plane or a really good boat because it's a compromise. It's a design compromise between an object that you want to perform in the air and in the sea. And that's why it's neither really good at both. Um, same thing with, for example, the space shuttle. It goes out into space and it can glide down, but it's not a very good airplane, comes down like a brick, you know?

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. LE

      Because there's design compromises and performance compromises. But what we are seeing doesn't have any of that attributable compromise. It's not... These objects aren't slowing down. They're not changing their, their, their, their performance capabilities. They can do the same thing that we're seeing in the air and, and, and possibly in space and, and even underwater. So that is a, that is a fundamentally different type of technology than we are used to dealing with.

    12. JR

      Is the assumption that they are doing something with spacetime and gravity around them-

    13. LE

      That's correct.

    14. JR

      ... rather than using something like a jet propulsion engine that-

    15. LE

      Correct.

    16. JR

      ... blasts fire out the back and it makes it go fast forward?

    17. LE

      Right.

    18. JR

      That they're doing something that alters the gravity around them.

    19. LE

      Yeah. So-

    20. JR

      And that's why they can go through everything.

    21. LE

      Yeah. So we had some of the best scientists on the team. Uh, folks like Dr. Hal Puthoff and some other folks that I'm not allowed to say their names.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. LE

      Uh, Dr. Eric Davis and some others, that were doing the calculations, um, mathematical calculations on h- on how this is possible, and the consensus was by, by the scientists... Not me, because I'm not a, I'm not a physics expert, I'm not a astrophysicist. Um, they were saying that... So let me back up here. Initially, the government for years was trying to identify the different exotic technologies that could explain the different performance characteristics, and it was during the AATIP years that the scientists had this consensus that if you had one type of technology, if you could do one thing, all these other observables now become possible. Kind of think of like a unifying theory.

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. LE

      And so if you had the ability to, to create this bubble around you in a localized area that insulated you from the effects of Earth's gravity... Now, what is gravity? People think that, you know, when I drop my glasses, that's gravity. That's not gravity. That's an effect of gravity. Gravity is the warping of space...... time. And that's important because people don't, they, you hear the term thrown around a lot, but they don't realize that space and time are actually connected. They are, they are, they are one and the same. They are opposite sides, if you will, of the same coin, and so you can't have one without the other. And so you have this ability to create a bubble around you that insulates you from the warping of space time, let's say in this case Earth's gravity or something like that. Then the way you experience time inside that bubble is perhaps fundamentally different than the way you might experience space time outside that bubble, because you're not, you're not subject to the effects of gravity, which would explain por- potentially, potentially why things don't need wings and why they don't need propulsion systems like that, right? So it's, it's a completely different way of looking at, at how we understand physics and how we as humans move about. Everything we do is fundamentally force equals mass times acceleration, right? F=MA, right? Mass times acceleration, you get force. Um, this may be something a little bit different. This is, this is not using a c- again, conventional thrust. Or if I, you know, Newtonian, right? If I, if I push this way, I have an equal and opposite reaction that way, right? That's how, that's-

    26. JR

      Are there any theories as to how it's accomplishing this?

    27. LE

      There is. Uh, actually, Dr. Hal Puthoff about f- three years ago gave a speech on this, uh, a very, uh, interesting talk, lecture about this technology and if you ever have the chance, you really should have him on 'cause he's a, he's a, he's incredible human being. He's also the one who helped start the government's remote viewing program and a bunch of other stuff for the government. Um, he's been involved in a lot of our nation's probably most, most classified efforts. But he was working with us on, on A2P as one of our scientists, and he gave a lecture about three years ago to some other scientists about the specifics on how this is possible. I am not a scientist so I definitely not gonna speak on behalf of Hal Puthoff 'cause I'm sure I will muck it up, but I do recall a time when he came into our skiff and gave us about a three-hour (laughs) lecture on this unifying theory. And at that moment, it was very much for us the epiphany that a lot of us had been, been searching for. He's like, "Look, at the end of the day, this is how it's possible." And that was kind of this, wow. So it's really not-

    28. JR

      Can you give us a-

    29. LE

      ... magic.

    30. JR

      ... moron's view of how it's possible?

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:30

    I like how they…

    1. LE

      through FOIA. There's a, there's a gentleman out there, uh, who runs a site called The Black Vault, his name is John Greenwald. He's probably the world authority on Freedom of Information Act and he has a wealth of data that is out available to the public that he has received from the government. This is one of those documents. This is the document that our own government has no idea apparently exists.

    2. JR

      I like how they write it in all caps.

    3. LE

      (laughs) Yeah, yeah, that's through the, the old reporting.

    4. JR

      So obviously there's some people that don't want this to be released, and obviously there's some people that think that the, the general public has a right to know.

    5. LE

      I believe so.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. LE

      That's, that's my, that's been my observations and my experiences.

    8. JR

      Well, that makes sense, you know, I mean, like when everybody says, "The CIA does this." Like, okay, who?

    9. LE

      Well, when-

    10. JR

      Who in the CIA? Right?

    11. LE

      I didn't finish though the other part, right? So if they're not here for friend- if they're not, if it's not friendly-

    12. JR

      Right.

    13. LE

      ... that leaves them neutral like us-

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. LE

      Or benevolent.

    16. JR

      Or benevolent.

    17. LE

      Benevolent. Now from a military perspective, and I just want to caveat, I don't agree with this, but I can respect the understanding. You sir are a general, and I say to you, uh, uh, and I say-... we cannot prove that they're not here to do something bad, but what we do know is that they can interfere, they- they're very interested in our, in our military capabilities and they have interfered with our nuclear capabilities, right?

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. LE

      From a military perspective, that looks an awful lot like something we call IPB, initial preparations of the battle space, or perhaps even ISR, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance. Whenever we're going to go into a foreign country and invade, (smacks lips) we do long-range surveillance. We want to know how the enemy operates, how they react. So, even if there's a 2% chance, 5% chance that these things are, are here to do something malevolent, right?

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. LE

      Then we probably should not tip our hands to the fact that we are aware of it publicly, because what happens the moment that the bad guys in a foreign country find our surveillance team over the border? We've got 12 hours. We, we've got to invade, because the element of surprise is now over. So, some may feel, in the government, the mere fact of acknowledging this, if there is some sort of malintent, may push up artificially a clock that exists somewhere for these things to say, "Uh-oh, okay. The, the, the foolish humans are now... The cat's out of the bag, they know we're, we're, we're here. We need to go in now," for whatever reason they may have. So, that is the military mindset, potentially, of some of these individuals who want to keep this secret, 'cause-

    22. JR

      So, they're worried about an actual invasion?

    23. LE

      Well, but, but they have to be. That is-

    24. JR

      Right, of course.

    25. LE

      ... that is the role of our national security-

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. LE

      ... apparatus, right?

    28. JR

      Yes.

    29. LE

      Even if there's a 1% chance-

    30. JR

      Right.

Episode duration: 2:15:03

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode 9gLPtRwXgCM

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome