Joe Rogan Experience #2195 - Andrew Huberman

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right, we're good. Mr. Huberman, how are you, sir? Good to see you. (laughs)

   3. AHAndrew Huberman0:15

      Good to see you. Good to see you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      So, what were you just saying about dog breeds that... Like, we were talking about Carl, like the little bulldog breeds have more mastiff than wolf?

   5. AHAndrew Huberman0:24

      Yeah, so-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      So, mastiff is a different thing?

   7. AHAndrew Huberman0:27

      Well, so-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      Don't they all come from wolves?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman0:29

      Yeah, they all originate from wolves, but then dog selection has been twofold. Mainly for phenotype, like morphology, the shape we call it, and then temperament, right? So, there's this chart I... Uh, might be a little hard to find online, um, about the dosing of wolf versus mastiff genetics, essentially. And there's a bunch of other things woven into dog genetics. First of all, cool point, dogs are among, I don't know if they are the most, maybe whales are the most, but they are among the greatest variation in body size within a given species. You think of Chihuahua and Great Dane-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Right, right.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman1:05

       ... and it looks like it's dosing of the genes controlling IGF-1.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Oh.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman1:10

       Which makes sense.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Right.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman1:11

       A growth hormone.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman1:11

       But kinda wild, right? Like, you-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Yeah.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman1:13

       ... we got some big humans and some smaller humans, but not-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       Not like dogs.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman1:16

       Not like dogs, and then-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Chihuahuas-

   23. AHAndrew Huberman1:18

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       ... and then what are those enormous, uh, shepherd dogs? Those, um, what are those ones, those insane dogs they use to fight off wolves? What the fuck are those things called? Those gigantic hairy things? You know what I'm talking about? Uh... We've talked about them before.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman1:34

       The-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       They're terrifying-looking dogs. Yeah, the-

   27. AHAndrew Huberman1:36

       Yeah, I mean, just the-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       What's it called? It's that but it doesn't show on camera.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman1:39

       Oh, my goodness.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Oh, yeah, those things.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Like skunk spray. …

   1. AHAndrew Huberman15:00

      olfaction, which is that there's a particular compound that when introduced to a swimming pool people can detect a difference in the smell of the water at a dilution that is outrageously s- uh, outrageously small.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:11

      Like skunk spray.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman15:12

      Like skunk spray. Um, forgive me, because I'm not remembering the name of the chemical, but he said you can essentially add a drop of this to a, a swimming pool and then people can smell the difference between the water.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Mm.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman15:23

      And so what, his argument is not that humans are walking around sensing all these smells consciously as well as a bloodhound or as well as a bear, but that we have a tremendous capacity for olfaction that, you know, that the chocolate tracking ex- experiment exemplifies, but it requires some removal of our most dominant sense, vision-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:43

      Mm.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman15:43

      ... and hearing, our second most dominant sense, and in that case, tactile d- um, uh, orientation as well. And so the idea is that, you know, we have an amazing olfactory apparatus. In fact, he, he makes the argument, and there's evidence for the fact that as soon as people meet and, y- they've done these beautiful experiments, people meet, they shake hands, and you know what the next thing they do? They tend to, uh, within about a minute, they wipe the scent of the other person on their face typically. I guess I wasn't paying attention. I was-

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:07

      And they don't realize it?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman16:09

      People don't realize this. And he's done-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       They just do it-

   11. AHAndrew Huberman16:10

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:10

       ... subconsciously?

   13. AHAndrew Huberman16:11

       Yeah.

   14. NANarrator16:11

       Mercaptan, I think is, uh-

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       Mercaptans, th- also known as thiol, how do you say that? Thiols?

   16. AHAndrew Huberman16:18

       Uh, where is it? I'm guessing thiols.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       Sulfur-containing organic compounds with a strong unpleasant owner. They are colorless, yellows, liquids, it can be flammable. Mercaptans are found in nature and in living organisms as a waste product of, of metabolism and in oil and gas. They are also present in certain foods such as some nuts and cheese and in decaying organic matter in marshes.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman16:39

       Right. So we're probably sensitive to the odors that, that matter.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       That can kill us.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman16:43

       That can kill us. He also has this idea that I think, uh, uh, is starting to take hold in real data, that we are constantly sensing our own o- odor plumes. That we are, you know, that we, we smell ourselves a lot of times per day.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       Mm-hmm.

   22. AHAndrew Huberman16:55

       That's actually very normal behavior.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       Right.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman16:57

       You know, there are all sorts of ways people do that that nobody talks about. But pe-

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:59

       Yeah, you like check a sniff.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman17:00

       People check their sniff.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       Yeah.

   28. AHAndrew Huberman17:02

       And it's a, it's an indication of hormone status, immune status. When you have babies or puppies like, you know, you're looking at like, oh, is it good poop or a bad poop, you know? You're also peing at people, some people will smell the poop. I'm, I'm not a, a proponent of that. But we're constantly sensing the scent and taste of, for instance, our partner's saliva, right? Uh, uh, actually, an ex-girlfriend of mine wrote to me recently, uh, I don't know what this question represented, but she said, um, "Do you think that when you become unattracted to somebody, the, um, the taste of their mouth, um, becomes bad to you or the other way around?"

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       When you become unattracted to them?

   30. AHAndrew Huberman17:34

       Unattracted. I guess she might've been dating somebody and like maybe they'd fallen out of favor and she was kind of no- not attracted and she was sort of noting that, um-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah, but it's not…

   1. AHAndrew Huberman30:00

      yes, no, or maybe.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      Yeah, but it's not reliable. Like, I, I just be, to, to be completely honest, I've been bullshitted before. But it... I think I'm better at it than most, and I think maybe that's 'cause I've had more conversations with people than most people have. But, uh, it's not 100%. Sometimes people are full of shit and you don't... You're not sure, or you have your defenses down.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman30:21

      I mean, I've been badly, badly manipulated before.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:23

      Yeah.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman30:24

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:24

      It happens.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman30:24

      Yeah, yeah. (laughs) It happens.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:25

      Yeah, especially if you like someone. You know, that's part of the problem. You don't want them to be full of shit.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman30:30

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:30

       You know?

   11. AHAndrew Huberman30:30

       And some of the best manipulators, certainly in my experience, are people that have really...... figured out the combination lock of the things that-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       Mm-hmm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman30:38

       ... like that I have felt deprived of and they come in and-

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:41

       Sure.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman30:41

       And those tend to be unique things, right, that you can't get uh- anywhere.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:44

       Mm-hmm.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman30:45

       You know, and boy, uh, somebody said that, uh, to me recently, like there are certain categories of humans that I just, I can't be seduced by. I'm not talking about just sexual seduction, right?

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       Right. Right. Right.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman30:56

       But, you know, um, you know, I'm saying that y- I just can't be seduced by.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman30:59

       Um, and then there are... Some people are just, are able to get past that force field.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Right.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman31:03

       And so m- I consider myself pretty good at threat sensing, except in that domain.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       Right.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman31:07

       Where like my threat sensing is like the equivalent of a, of a stuffed animal.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       My friend Tony always says that erotic and psychotic are so close to each other that, you know, like, the, it crosses over back and forth.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman31:20

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       And I think there's something to that too, that some of the craziest people are also some of the sexiest people for some weird reason. Like you, you wanna be with them even though you know they're dangerous. Like, they're crazy. Like, there's some weird thing going on there. Almost like you want wild kids 'cause wild kids could survive better.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman31:39

       Oh, that's an interesting one.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:41

       You know what I'm saying?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Hmm. …

   1. AHAndrew Huberman45:00

      So, couple of more things about olfaction. And by the way, I love this stuff. This is so wild, 'cause it's the most primitive part of our brain and nervous system. We were chemical sensors before we were light sensors.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Hmm.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman45:12

      Right? We were sensing chemical environments. "Is this a, a safe chemical environment?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Right.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman45:15

      And we evolved from that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      Right.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman45:17

      We know that, for instance, memories that are associated with smell, like the... People will say, "The smell of my grandmother's kitchen," or, "Somebody's hands, my grandfather's hands," that, those memories stick with us longer than anything, because the olfactory bulb has a direct line to a couple of structures in the brain. We ha- so we have an olfactory bulb, which is the main thing for smell. Then there's something called the accessory olfactory bulb. It sort of divides into primitive smells that are like, ugh, aversive, get away quick. Those tend to go through a really fast line, through the olf- accessory olfactory bulb, takes us straight to the amygdala, to the piriform cortex that says, "Move your body and face in, away from that." Like, I didn't sit there and (sniffs) -

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:53

      Right, right, right.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman45:53

      ... on those smelling salts. It's like, boom, get away.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       Right.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman45:56

       It's, it's like a reflex.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       Yeah.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman45:56

       It's like in fish, there's this thing called the Mauthner neuron, where you touch on one side of the body. What does the fish do? Goes the opposite direction.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       Mm-hmm.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman46:03

       Big, huge neuron. Hardwired circuit.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Well, they have those lateral lines that detects-

   17. AHAndrew Huberman46:08

       Exactly.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       ... scen- sounds and things and vibrations in the water.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman46:11

       They're sensing, electrosensing at a distance.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:13

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman46:13

       And it... These Mauthner neurons are incredible. You touch, boom. The fish heads the opposite direction. Doesn't go like, "Oh, are you another friendly fish? You want a mate?"

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       Right.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman46:20

       They go, "I'm out of here. Oh," and then they check you out.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       Right.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman46:23

       Right? And is... So it's a reflex for safety. The olfactory system has these two pathways, the olfactory bulb for kind of like, "Oh, is this Black Rifle coffee?" You know? And then there's the smelling salt one that goes to the olf- uh, the accessory olfactory bulb straight to the amygdala, which is associated with threat detection and other things, straight to the piriform cortex, and then to a motor circuit. Boom. Turn the head the other way, get out, exhale. Don't inhale more.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       Mm.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman46:46

       Aversive. Okay? So, the thing about smell is that, you know, it's got these very hardwired components. Okay? And they're set up for either appetitive, like, "Hmm, let me explore more, sniff in more," versus avers- a- as opposed to aversive behaviors, like, "Get, get me the hell away."

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:04

       Mm.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman47:05

       And the- these brain areas are among the more ancient brain areas. Now when I say ancient, people nowadays start picking apart at like, "Well, it's not just limbic and cortex. The cortex is part of limbic." That's all true. But if you look at our brains and you look at the brains of a, like a turtle or even a snake, all the stuff we're talking about right here are all... They're not exactly the same, but they're all present. When you get to humans, what you really add is a lot of cerebral cortex for the th- thinking and association stuff. Like, you know, "I've been here before, so I'm a little bit less, you know, uh, like s- looking around as much as I did last time." Like, things that, you know, not... Context-dependent learning.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:42

       Hmm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:09:11

   It's like total economy…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      in his technique. There's no wasted movement. So when an opportunity presents itself, everything is so fast because the technique is so streamlined. But like look at how he hits the pads. And when you watch how he hits the pads, and Mayweather is a great example of that as well. Did I send it to you? Uh-huh. No? It didn't go through? No. I totally sent it. Hold on. It says I sent it. Is it on Instagram? No. I, yeah, it's on Instagram. Okay. I sent it to you though, uh, on a text message. I think it hit... Really? Yeah. I sent it twice. I got it. I got it. You got it? Okay. Um, Ilia Topuria, like I said, um, one of the, some of the best hands in the sport, current UFC featherweight champion and knocked out Volkanovski who was maybe the greatest of all time. Watch him hit the punches. Look at this. See how he's moving his head when the guy throws punches, just slipping just slightly?

   2. AHAndrew Huberman1:00:54

      It's like total economy of movement.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

      And the speed, man. Oh. The fucking speed of that. Look at the hand. Look at the hand speed.Fucking incredible. I mean, if you know how difficult that is to do-

   4. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:08

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

      ... and do it that fast. Give me that ha- sound again. Let me hear this. (punching sounds) (grunting) I mean, these are like five, six punches a second.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:16

      Yeah. It almost-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

      I mean-

   8. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:17

      ... sounds li- it almost looks like it's sped up by-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

      Right.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:19

       ... one, one and a half times, 1.75.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       But it's not. (punching sounds)

   12. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:21

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       And just phenomenal technique. (punching sounds) But see how those pu- it's like they're, they're not even talking.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:31

       Oh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:31

       So when he's s- throwing the mitts at his head to get him to duck, there are no- there's no communication. He just sees that hand coming towards him and he's ducking. He sees this hand coming towards him and he's ducking. It's all, like, slight slips away. And it's slight motions, which is all you need to get away from a punch, right?

   16. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:48

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

       You just ... You don't wanna move too far or you're wasting a lot of energy and you can't counterattack. Y- One of the best things about Floyd and one of the most brilliant things about him, he's one of the most elusive fighters of all time, but he didn't move around. He stood right in front of you and you couldn't fucking hit him. That's true mastery of space and true mastery of technique. I mean, he was ... He's ... In my opinion, he's the best boxer that's ever lived.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:11

       Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm not qualified to, to, to rank people, but I, I watched when he was making that ascent towards ... It ended up being 50 and 0.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:18

       He just fought last weekend.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:19

       Did he?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       This weekend. Yeah. He fought a, um ... He fought a match against John Gotti's grandson, which is crazy.

   22. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:26

       That's scary for a lot of reasons.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

       Yeah, for a lot of reasons. Right? But this is the second time they fought. The first time they fought, it ended in a brawl. Like, a, like a bunch of people jumped in the ring. It was crazy because they stopped the fight because they were talking too much shit to each other and holding onto each other too much. So the referee stopped the fight for whatever reason. I don't know. And then this fight was even crazy too because the referee was ... The first referee was terrible. And the, the referee called Floyd ... Said Floyd Mayweather hit him behind the head. A- absolutely incorrect call. Floyd threw a right hand and it caught him on the side of the head, and the referee claimed that it was behind the head. So Floyd fired the referee in the middle of the bout. They s- He stops the bout. He's like, "Get the fuck outta here. Get out of here."

   24. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:09

       'Cause he's the promoter also.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:10

       Well, I guess.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:11

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03:11

       I mean, also it's Floyd Mayweather. Like, what's the referee gonna do? "Fuck you"?

   28. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:15

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:15

       You know, "I'm gonna stop the fight"? Like, h- he, uh ... Also they're in Mexico City, like, you could get killed. Like, "Just get out of the ring, buddy." So Floyd throws this punch and he's 100% correct. The punch landed the side of the head, it's a right hook, it's a perfect punch. And the, the referee was saying, "Watch the back of the head." He's like, "What the fuck are you talking about? That wasn't the back of the head." And so he kicks the guy out. And they bring in a different referee, who finishes the fight. It was, it was insanity.

   30. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:40

       And Floyd won.

Episode duration: 3:07:30