Joe Rogan Experience #2195 - Andrew Huberman

1. 0:00 – 3:17

   Dog breed genetics: wolves, mastiffs, and extreme size variation

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right, we're good. Mr. Huberman, how are you, sir? Good to see you. (laughs)

   3. AHAndrew Huberman0:15

      Good to see you. Good to see you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      So, what were you just saying about dog breeds that... Like, we were talking about Carl, like the little bulldog breeds have more mastiff than wolf?

   5. AHAndrew Huberman0:24

      Yeah, so-

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      So, mastiff is a different thing?

   7. AHAndrew Huberman0:27

      Well, so-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      Don't they all come from wolves?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman0:29

      Yeah, they all originate from wolves, but then dog selection has been twofold. Mainly for phenotype, like morphology, the shape we call it, and then temperament, right? So, there's this chart I... Uh, might be a little hard to find online, um, about the dosing of wolf versus mastiff genetics, essentially. And there's a bunch of other things woven into dog genetics. First of all, cool point, dogs are among, I don't know if they are the most, maybe whales are the most, but they are among the greatest variation in body size within a given species. You think of Chihuahua and Great Dane-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Right, right.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman1:05

       ... and it looks like it's dosing of the genes controlling IGF-1.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Oh.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman1:10

       Which makes sense.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Right.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman1:11

       A growth hormone.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman1:11

       But kinda wild, right? Like, you-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Yeah.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman1:13

       ... we got some big humans and some smaller humans, but not-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       Not like dogs.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman1:16

       Not like dogs, and then-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Chihuahuas-

   23. AHAndrew Huberman1:18

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       ... and then what are those enormous, uh, shepherd dogs? Those, um, what are those ones, those insane dogs they use to fight off wolves? What the fuck are those things called? Those gigantic hairy things? You know what I'm talking about? Uh... We've talked about them before.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman1:34

       The-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       They're terrifying-looking dogs. Yeah, the-

   27. AHAndrew Huberman1:36

       Yeah, I mean, just the-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       What's it called? It's that but it doesn't show on camera.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman1:39

       Oh, my goodness.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Oh, yeah, those things.
2. 3:17 – 4:56

   Short snouts, pain tolerance, and why bulldogs struggle to breathe

   1. AHAndrew Huberman3:17

      Like a shepherd, have more heavy- dosing of the wolf gene still in them. Then you get to the shorter snout, kind of snub-nosed like the French bulldog, the English bulldog, and some mastiff breeds, pugs, right? And the, the amount of wolf in them is, like, nil to none. And then what's happ-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:34

      But, but wait, wait a minute, but they all start off as wolves.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman3:36

      So, they s- have some genes that relate to the wolf origin, origin lineage, right? But over time, they've been bred. For instance, the English bulldog, what-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:44

      Right, but, but all dogs originally come from wolves.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman3:46

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:47

      All of them.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman3:47

      That's my understanding as well.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:48

      Even mastiffs?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman3:48

      That's right. That's my understanding. But then as they were cross-bred with different dogs, right? So, for instance, like, the English bulldog, that line came from the crossing of essentially pug, like, s- short snout, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman4:01

       But with mastiff, with mastiffs or with dogs with heavy mastiff genetic dosing. Why? Well, the idea was the short snout gives them a, a good lever for holding onto things, right? And the mastiff genes lead to, and we know this for sure, both the droopiness of the face. It also relates to less, uh, presence of pain receptors in the front of the body.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       Oh.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman4:23

       Okay, so if you've ever had a bulldog where, you know, their feet can be really sensitive, but their face, you can hold onto those jowls. My bulldog, Costello, would go picking up stuff at the beach and he'd occasionally get a fish hook in his mouth and it looks super painful, and he's like, "Ugh." You know? So, not, not very many pain sensors in the face. They have a-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       Hmm.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman4:37

       ... they have a disruption and, or mutation in the gene that controls the elasticity of skin. That's why they have the droopiness. And they are, uh, brachycephalic, short snout. That's why they're not very good breathers.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       Mm-hmm.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman4:49

       And they essentially have sleep apnea. That's why they have a bunch of problems.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       Right.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman4:51

       Okay.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       They snore like a motherfucker.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman4:53

       R- they do s- they do snore a lot.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:54

       (laughs)

   23. AHAndrew Huberman4:54

       I can attest.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       (laughs) Like Carl does.

3. 4:56 – 8:39

   Dogs bred for jobs: bull-baiting origins, toy breeds, and ratters

   1. AHAndrew Huberman4:56

      It's crazy. And, and so what were dogs being selected for? Well, unless you're showing dogs, dogs were selected for the kind of work they were capable of doing. Like, sheepdogs are great herders, this kind of thing. But when people essentially designed, bred up and cross-bred to get the English bulldog or the Old English bulldog, which doesn't have as much of an underbite. So, I had an Old English bulldog. So, whereas the English bulldog is elbows out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:21

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman5:21

      So, inward rotation, the thing we're all supposed to not do, and under-right. The Old English bulldog looks like this. And that-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:27

      It looks more like a pit bull.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman5:29

      Looks more like a pit bull. And they were originally used for bull-baiting, for grabbing onto the nose of the bull, getting the bull super aggressive, and then being able to let go and get called off and coming back to their, uh, to their protector. And then basically, then it was for, it was to rile up the bull.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:43

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman5:43

      Right? For bullfighting. So, you can still find some of this stuff online. Um, you can find some old descriptions. In some cases, even some old videos. But of course, now bull-baiting with dogs is not allowed, right? Dog fighting everybody looks down on. But then if you start asking about the toy breeds, what were the toy breeds, quote-unquote, designed for or bred for? They were basically designed to sit next to you. Some of them will-... seek out, you know, like the terrier breeds will find vermin, right? They'll go find-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman6:09

      ... rats. They're, they're really good ratters, actually.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:10

       Yeah, Jack Russells are great at that.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman6:12

       Jack Russells are great ratters. The, um, the West Highland terriers, the Westies, um, the Cairn terriers, they're always ... They're really great hunters, uh, l- for little things, right? And the amazing thing is that when you start looking at the different breeds, it was basically humans selecting on the basis of mostly behavior and phenotype shape, and thinking, "Oh, like I want a smaller dog that will just sit near me," or, "I want a small dog that will s- that will, like, kill rats and sit near me." "No, I want a big dog that's gonna guard." So you start breeding for pain tolerance-

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:41

       Hm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman6:41

       ... start breeding for loyalty and aggression. And, um, a guy that I think was on your podcast a long time ago, uh, Sam Sheridan?

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:48

       Yeah.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman6:49

       Yeah. In The Fighter's Heart, there's a great chapter where he talks about, uh, I think it's dog fighting in the Philippines. And he talks about how brutal that sport is, which indeed it is. But he talks about the love between the owner and the dog can predict ... And the, and of course, the dog and the owner, it's reciprocal, one presumes that the strength of that relationship predicts how hard the dog will fight for the owner. And he uses this as kind of a parallel construction for why, and you tell me if this is true or not, that many of the fatalities in boxing were the consequence of sure, 15-round as opposed to 12-round fights, but also when the corner man or the coach was the parent.

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       Ooh.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman7:28

       And so, and so that it gets into this very complicated psychology. I actually (click) think that's a really terrific book, um, because I think it, it speaks to a lot of really interesting aspects of bonding between humans, bonding in that case between animals and humans, and of course, dog fighting, uh, like ... I don't know if there are many things that people look down upon as much as they l- look down upon dog fighting.

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       (laughs)

   19. AHAndrew Huberman7:49

       But he speaks to the relationship between the dog and the owner as a loving one, which was super surprising to me.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:54

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman7:54

       Anyway, um, that's a bit of a tangent. But, um, I don't know, maybe it's possible to find that chart. I don't wanna send you on a, on a-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:59

       No.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman7:59

       ... ridiculous expedition. But if you just say, so genes-

   24. NANarrator8:02

       We got a simple one.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:03

       It's a set.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman8:03

       That's a simple one. Okay. Um-

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:06

       Just gotta circle back and follow, but-

   28. AHAndrew Huberman8:06

       This one, the one I'm thinking about is a vertical one, um, uh, that was in Science magazine-

   29. NANarrator8:11

       I'll try it.

   30. AHAndrew Huberman8:12

       ... uh, or Scientific American.
4. 8:39 – 9:13

   Scent hounds and the mechanics of smell: ears, sniffs, and nose vortices

   1. AHAndrew Huberman8:39

      Um, are the ... You can ask an owner how good is their vision. Are they a sight hound or a scent hound? And of course, that they're both. But some dogs like ... I'm really interested now in part because of you and Cam Hanes and others about dogs that hunt or go on hunts. And like the coonhound breeds are amazing.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:55

      Yeah, they use their-

   3. AHAndrew Huberman8:56

      And I've always wanted a redbone coonhound.

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:57

      Their ears waft up smell. That's why they're so long.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman9:01

      I didn't know that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:02

      Yeah.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman9:02

      I didn't know that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:02

      Yeah, the reason why they have those long floppy ears is as they're running, their ears are wafting up smell, and it gives them a better sense of, uh, the, the, the chase.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman9:12

      Oh, amazing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:12

       Yeah.

5. 9:13 – 18:08

   Can humans track scents like dogs? The Berkeley chocolate-tracking experiments

   1. AHAndrew Huberman9:13

      I r- I read, um, this, uh, incredible description of why dog scent and sense of smell is so much better than ours. There's a guy named Noam Sobel who's been on my podcast, uh, he- he's over in Israel, who claims that human olfaction is just as good as dog olfaction. But how do they, how do they outdo us? The frequency of sniffs and this is really cool. You know those little notches on the side of the nose? Like, our nostrils look more or less symmetric?

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:38

      Mm-hmm.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman9:39

      They have those little notches. They create, they create little vortices for the dogs so that the scents stick around. They're actually getting longer exposure to a scent. So when they ... (sniffing) They're getting something like 10 or 20X the exposure to the scent in the olfactory bulb and are able to assess both directionality. They can do right nostril, left r- nostril. They can sense odor plumes to steer in one direction or another. But Noam has done these crazy experiments when he was back at Berkeley where he had people's hands mitted, eyes covered, so they can't sense touch, they can't see. Everything's covered. And they can follow a scent of chocolate buried seven inches below the ground.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:18

      What? People can?

   5. AHAndrew Huberman10:19

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:19

      (laughs)

   7. AHAndrew Huberman10:19

      And you can see this. This you can find. If you say, uh, uh, tracking ... Sorry, Jamie. (laughs) My goal wasn't to come here and send you on these, um-

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:25

      These people have a nose like Ari Shaffir?

   9. AHAndrew Huberman10:27

      Uh, d- (laughs) Oh, boy.

   10. NANarrator10:29

       (laughs)

   11. AHAndrew Huberman10:30

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:30

       (laughs)

   13. AHAndrew Huberman10:30

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       Or Adrien Brody?

   15. AHAndrew Huberman10:32

       Oh, my. Oh, my. Um, if you say, uh, kinda Berkeley chocolate, uh, tracking, uh, Sobel or something like that, it should come up. So he would do these aerial views of these people tracking these scents on the ground, and it turns out people are really good at this. They can track a scent, um, yeah. And if you-

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:49

       Sniffers show that humans can track scents and that two nostrils are better than one. Okay.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman10:55

       So if you, but if you go Images, I think you'll probably-

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:58

       Chocolate scent through the grass.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman10:59

       Yeah, if you go Images, and then I'll lay off the, the Google-

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:03

       They will track scents.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman11:05

       So if you go to Images, uh, damn it, and you just say, uh, Berkeley. Just say ... There it is.

   22. NANarrator11:13

       Okay.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman11:13

       Right. So they compared the tracking of a scent hound, of a, of a bloodhound to human tracking of a scent buried, uh, in the case of the se- uh, the bloodhound, it wasn't buried.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       So that person, what do they have, a mask on?

   25. AHAndrew Huberman11:24

       Yeah, they got a mask on. Their hands are covered with thick gloves. They can only use ... The on- the only thing exposed are their nostrils.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       Hmm.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman11:31

       And they're ... But that line, that yellow line is not a line with a bunch of chocolate on it. It's buried below the surface. I always thought it was above, and then when I talked to Noam, he said, "No, no, they buried the chocolate scent." And people were able to track it like a, like a hunting dog tracks a pheasant.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:45

       Well, how do they bury it if it's grass?

   29. AHAndrew Huberman11:48

       I think they cut a trench and then they covered it up.

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:50

       Oh. Wow.
6. 18:08 – 22:13

   Olfactory neurons, head trauma, COVID smell loss, and smell training (plus alpha-lipoic acid)

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:08

      (laughs) This, this is a, a mule deer skull.So, you know, this is, uh, not as extreme as an elk, but you get a look at the internal-

   2. AHAndrew Huberman18:19

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:19

      ... if you look inside of that, and you see.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman18:21

      Oh, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan18:21

      'Cause they can wind you from 100 m- yards away-

   6. AHAndrew Huberman18:25

      It's on here.

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:25

      ... easy.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman18:25

      So, see this spongy stuff? I don't know if they can see it on video. There's this spongy stuff there.

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:29

      Mm-hmm.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman18:30

       That's something called the cribriform plate. The cribriform plate is a bunch of Swiss cheese-like thin bone, and the olfactory neurons, which basically sit, like, right behind your, the back of your nostrils, they, uh, they send axons, their little wire-like connections, back into the brain. And when somebody gets hit hard on the head, that cribriform bl- plate shears it, and that's why people become anosmic, they lose their sense of smell.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:51

       Yeah.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman18:52

       Now, the-

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:52

       Look at that fic- picture.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman18:54

       There it is.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:54

       Yeah.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman18:54

       Now, what's amazing about the olfactory neurons is that they are among the very few neurons in the human and other mammalian nervous system that regenerates throughout the lifespan. So, there's a little area of your hippocampus where there's some neurons that everyone makes a big deal of that, frankly, don't do a lot to regenerate throughout the lifespan, so-called neurogenesis, new neurons. But the olfactory neurons, even though they're a central nervous system neuron, just your like retinal neuron or your cerebral cortex, they can regenerate throughout the entire lifespan, and they do. Every time someone takes a head hit or there's some, you know, shearing off of these accents, uh, axons, excuse me, um, they regenerate. Now, under conditions like, uh, we saw this a lot, uh, during COVID where people were complaining about loss of smell.

   17. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman19:36

       Um, we see this when people age. Some people are thinking that loss of smell may be a correlate, not the cause, but obviously, but a correlate of age-related cognitive decline, dementia and Alzheimer's, things like that. Um, there are a few things. Actually, I think I recommended it to a couple of friends of ours. Now, this, there's very little data on this, but I will say, and I'll, I'll catch heat for this, but these days I catch heat anyway, so I don't care. There are good data, in my opinion, small amount of data, but let's call it decent enough data to explore, that alpha-lipoic acid at 600 milligrams per day during the time when you're starting to lose your smell might rescue some of that smell. Bec- by res-

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       So if someone's getting COVID and they start to lose their sense of smell, if they-

   20. AHAndrew Huberman20:20

       Or any viral infection where they are losing the sense of smell.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:23

       What other viral infections cause a loss of sense of smell?

   22. AHAndrew Huberman20:26

       Well, anything that clogs the sinuses, certainly, but, um, there are influenza viruses that do this. Now, I know as we're saying this that some people are gonna say... uh, in fact, Noam Sobel told me that he felt that the data about alpha-lipoic acid were kind of on the weak side. But when people are losing their sense of smell and taste, it's really scary. I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, you kind of feel like so much of pleasure in life, unbeknownst to us, is-

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:48

       Yeah.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman20:48

       ... emerges with-

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:49

       Especially with food.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman20:49

       Oh, I'll never forget when I got a viral infection and I took... and I lost my sense of smell. And I ate a handful of blueberries, which I love, and it just tasted like bags of water.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:59

       Hmm.

   28. AHAndrew Huberman20:59

       I was like, I was like, "Oh, goodness." Like, I, I don't... there are worse things in life.

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:02

       Was it COVID that you l- lost your smell with?

   30. AHAndrew Huberman21:04

       It was, it was. And I did the smell training, which has also been shown to work. Because these olfactory neurons, this is amazing, their survival is activity dependent. They require electrical activity driven by sniffing and smelling. It is true that the behavioral tool of taking a lemon and (sniffs) really just, like, getting it close to that nostril and just really trying to get whatever little whiff of lemon you can, and then taking, you know, your coffee and (sniffs) getting that little whiff of coffee, whatever little remnants of smell that you can get in there has been shown to improve the survival and eventually the durability of not just the olfactory neurons, but scent. In other words, the behavioral training works. There are... the alpha-lipoic acid thing is debated. The thing about alpha-lipoic acid is diabetics and people with blood sugar issues probably shouldn't take it. It can kind of reduce blood sugar a little bit. But when I had that happen, lost my sense of smell, I was like, "Listen, I, I don't... I want my smell back." So I took 600 milligrams of alpha-lipoic acid, and I was doing the, the scent training. I was like, sniffing lemon, sniffing coffee, sniffing Parmesan cheese, sniffing anything that was pungent that I could recognize. And my smell came back-
7. 22:13 – 50:17

   Smelling salts demo: aversion reflex, adrenaline surge, and nostril dominance switching

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:13

      Is it only positive smells? Or what about if you use smelling salts or something, like, really intense?

   2. AHAndrew Huberman22:18

      Ooh. Well, smelling salts I've never used, but-

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:20

      Uh-oh.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman22:21

      ... but, but I-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:21

      Well, well, guess what?

   6. AHAndrew Huberman22:22

      Do we have some?

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:23

      We've got some right here.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman22:24

      I'd be willing to try.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:25

      Give it a check. Go ahead and get it, Jamie.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman22:26

       Are they legal?

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:26

       Oh, yeah.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman22:26

       Before I do something illegal.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:28

       100%.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman22:28

       Okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:28

       Yeah.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman22:28

       All right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       Yeah, these are totally legal.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman22:30

       All right, I'll give it a shot.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:31

       Uh, these are the one... this is Ahh.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman22:32

       (laughs) Jamie's laughing.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:34

       This is, uh, Jujimufu, uh-

   22. AHAndrew Huberman22:36

       Oh, my.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       ... who was a, a real athletic freak-

   24. AHAndrew Huberman22:38

       Okay.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:38

       ... who, who uses these. We... I don't know him, but, uh, shout out to him-

   26. AHAndrew Huberman22:42

       Okay.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:42

       ... because this is the strongest shit we have ever-

   28. AHAndrew Huberman22:44

       Wait, wha-

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:44

       ... tried.

   30. AHAndrew Huberman22:45

       I will just-
8. 50:17 – 1:07:16

   Fighters, pain, and pattern recognition: liver shots, question-mark kicks, and Mayweather’s timing

   1. JRJoe Rogan50:17

      They used to give it to boxers when they got hurt in the corner. They'd give them smelling salts-

   2. AHAndrew Huberman50:21

      Yeah, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan50:21

      ... and wake them up.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman50:22

      Yeah, 'cause one of the best, uh, uh, painkillers is adrenaline.

   5. JRJoe Rogan50:25

      Hmm, that makes sense.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman50:26

      'Cause when you've been hit hard before-

   7. JRJoe Rogan50:28

      Mm-hmm.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman50:28

      ... isn't amazing how little it hurts when it happens and how much it hurts later?

   9. JRJoe Rogan50:31

      Yeah, it's kinda crazy.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman50:32

       It's crazy. I mean, there-

   11. JRJoe Rogan50:33

       That's the thing that's weird about fights. Like, while they're happening, your shins are getting battered, things are getting hurt, and you don't, you don't really feel much.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman50:40

       Yeah, adrenaline.

   13. JRJoe Rogan50:41

       Unless you get kicked hard in the body.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman50:43

       Right. To-

   15. JRJoe Rogan50:43

       The liver shots, doesn't matter how much adrenaline you have pumping, there's something about getting hit in the liver. The liver, when you get hit, like, right here, if you get kicked or punched right here, it's a crazy feeling. It just shuts everything off. It's real weird. Your body just shuts off.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman51:00

       I've seen these, uh, images of, like, uh, somebody just, like, melt. It looks like they melt-

   17. JRJoe Rogan51:04

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman51:04

       ... they're sto- And it looks like they take a few paces and they're, like, ready to counterpunch or something-

   19. JRJoe Rogan51:08

       Yeah.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman51:08

       ... and then it hits slowly. I don't know-

   21. JRJoe Rogan51:10

       Well, some shots go away. So, like, some pain, like if you get punched in the gut, and you're, you know, you're, you're tidying up in anticipation, it still hurts, it hurts, but then you move a little bit and then you're okay again. But the liver is the opposite. The liver, you get hit, and then there's this, like, sharp pain and a delay, and then, ah, everything just shuts off. It's very wei- It's very hard to fake an- that you're fine and move away. You see, like, telltale signs, like one thing guys will do all the time when they get hit in the liver, they drop their right arm down, and they pin it to their body. So maybe they're fighting like this, they're moving, and they whacked in the liver, and you see them do like that and they're still moving, but they can't help it. They have their arm pres- because they know one more shot there and they're fucked. And so they barely can keep a poker face and move around, but there's telltale signs that you see that are just instinctive. You see them just drop their hand. And a lot of times guys will use that to set them up with a head kick. So, like, they'll hit you a bunch of... A good example of that is I- Islam Makhachev and, uh, Alexander Volkanovski. He hit him with a left kick to the body multiple times in that fight and then fired off one to the head and knocked him out.

   22. AHAndrew Huberman52:20

       So it's like they're just hiding. This is like slow, deep pain.

   23. JRJoe Rogan52:22

       You just see the leg come up, and it's very hard to recog- There's a kick called the question mark kick, and it's called a question mark kick because in TaeKwonDo we used to call it a fake front kick roundhouse kick. And what it is is you're lifting the knee up as if you're kicking to the body in a straight line, and then you whip it over and go like that and turn it into a roundhouse kick. Pull up, uh, Glaube Feitosa. Glaube Feitosa was the best at it, so much so that a lot of people started calling it the Brazilian kick, because this guy was a K-1 champion who had the most flexible hips and the craziest question mark kick. And he would literally bring it up and down-

   24. AHAndrew Huberman53:03

       Pshew.

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:03

       ... over the guard. So your hands would be up this, like you think your hands are protecting your head. He would bring it up around, like this, and drop it down on your head and knock people out.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman53:12

       Crazy.

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:12

       It's so wild, 'cause to this day I don't know anybody who can kick as good as him with that kick. Um, like to this day he has the f- the best highlight re- There's a lot of people that are really good at that kick, but Glaube had a very unusual flexibility of his hips. Watch this. Look at this. Well, that's-

   28. AHAndrew Huberman53:31

       Ooh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:31

       ... just a regular one, but he's got some of them that go over the... This is some of his highlights. Like look at that. See how he does that? See how it just goes up and around?

   30. AHAndrew Huberman53:40

       It almost looks like a, it almost looks like his knee just kind of-
9. 1:07:16 – 1:12:45

   Anger as a reward and the “high-conflict” personality problem in relationships

   1. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:16

      Yeah. He's enjoying life. Well, people like to be angry. Um, I'm always calling to mind a study... I'll keep this really brief, but there's a famous study by a guy named Robert Heath, who was a neurosurgeon, and he put a bunch of stimulating electrodes into the brain of some humans getting neurosurgery, and he offered them the opportunity to stimulate any area they wanted. And he stimulates some areas, and they'd feel happy or giddy or drunk or sexual arousal, whatever. You know, the one area that all... There were only three subjects, but for human neurosurgery, that's not a terrible subject number. The area that all three of them preferred vastly over the other areas to be stimulated evoked the sense of anger and frustration.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:07:55

      Really?

   3. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:55

      Yeah. People like to be angry.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:07:57

      Which is why Twitter is so popular.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:59

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:08:00

      (laughs)

   7. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:00

      And to some extent Instagram and... I don't know. Does, I don't know-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:08:02

      Sure, but Twitter is the one the most, because it's mostly just talking, or mostly just text. Instagram is photographs, and s- you could just... I, I don't comment on people's pho- very, very rarely. I might have commented on photos 12 times in my life. You know, just a friend, like, "That's awesome. Way to go." Something nice.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:19

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:08:19

       But, uh, I don't even read comments. But I look at pictures. I go, "Oh, that's cool. Oh, look at that video, that's fucking crazy." I'll give it a little tap, double-tap, give you a little heart, give you a little love and then move on ab- about my day. But in Twitter, I'm constantly just engaging with people's thoughts and arguments and debates. And that's why I think Twitter's the most d- addictive of all the social media platforms, in terms of engagement, but not as addictive as TikTok in terms of, um, it compels you to continue to watch. I wanna keep going with this, but I have to pee so bad. I j- I did the sauna before we got here-

   11. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:50

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:08:50

       ... and I drank 64 liters of water, so.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:52

       Easy. Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:08:52

       Or 64, uh, ounces, rather. All right, we'll be right back. We were, uh, at people like to get angry, and you were saying that you, uh, had, uh, another urge to take another sniff of these smelling salts.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman1:09:03

       So, so I'm observing something interesting about the smelling salts. Like, it definitely, like, brack, hits hard, and then you feel really good afterwards, and you can feel it in your body.

Episode duration: 3:07:30