Joe Rogan Experience #2215 - Graham Hancock

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Good to see you, sir. What's happening?

   3. GHGraham Hancock0:14

      Good to see you too, Joe.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      I watched, uh, episode one and I'm into episode two of your new season. Uh, looks-

   5. GHGraham Hancock0:20

      Fantastic.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      ... fantastic. Looks awesome. Fantastic information. But before we do anything, I think we should probably address what we know now about the debate that you had with Flint Dibble.

   7. GHGraham Hancock0:31

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      So that was the last time we were here. Um, it was... I, I appreciate that he came on and I thought that was going to be an interesting discussion, but it turned out he played fast and loose with the truth, um, and, and distorted quite a bit of information that, um, were some key points that you had discussed. One of them being, uh, the amount of shipwrecks-

   9. GHGraham Hancock0:54

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       ... that were discovered. He greatly inflated the amount of shipwrecks that have been discovered. And then you released a video, uh, today.

   11. GHGraham Hancock1:01

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Um, that went over a lot of this stuff, and one of the things that went over is the oldest shipwreck that we are currently available, it's about 4,000 years old?

   13. GHGraham Hancock1:09

       About 6,000.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       6000?

   15. GHGraham Hancock1:11

       The Nicos shipwreck, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       But there's nothing left of the ship.

   17. GHGraham Hancock1:14

       No, that's right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       And this is what's important. The, you know, what he was trying to say was that it would be preserved-

   19. GHGraham Hancock1:19

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       ... by the cold water. That turns out to not be the truth at all, and that these ships that are 6,000 years old, there's nothing left of the actual boat itself.

   21. GHGraham Hancock1:27

       That's right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       The only thing that's left is pottery and coins-

   23. GHGraham Hancock1:31

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       ... and things of the like.

   25. GHGraham Hancock1:32

       Yeah. And especially when you consider the possibility of ships having gone through a cataclysm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       Right.

   27. GHGraham Hancock1:37

       It's not likely. But there's a, there's a more central point than that, which, which really needed to be brought up by the archeologist in this, which is that, which is that archeology universally accepts that human beings were seafarers as much as 50,000 years ago.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:55

       Mm-hmm.

   29. GHGraham Hancock1:55

       And I, I put the evidence on this into the, into the video. It's not even in dispute. Like the island of Cyprus, nearest Turkish coast is about 60 kilometers from there. Uh, it's always been surrounded by huge deeps. It's always been an island, even at the peak of the sea, uh, sea level, lowest sea level during the Ice Age. Cyprus was always an island. And yet there's evidence now that it was settled 14,000 years ago, certainly 14,000 to 12,500 years ago. It was settled, uh, in other words, during the Ice Age. And these were large planned migrations. When you're going to migrate to an island, you can't just go two or three people by accident-

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       Mm-hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. …

   1. GHGraham Hancock15:00

      what was then accepted as the model for the first peoples in North America. Uh, when he put that idea forward, he was- he was eviscerated by his colleagues in- in archeology. It took them a decade to come round to accepting that actually he was right. And there are many other sites in South America, uh, going back 30-plus thousand years. They're all controversial because they conflict with an existing model. But I think instead of clinging on to existing models, I think that's one of the problems with archeology, uh, is this territoriality, this kind of control-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:30

      Yeah.

   3. GHGraham Hancock15:30

      ... of the past. I- I think instead of doing that, it would be- it would be nicer if archeology was a little bit more welcoming, a little bit more open to- to new and different ideas, and-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      Unfortunately, that's just the thing when people are supposed experts in a subject and someone comes along that's also been studying it, but from a nontraditional perspective-

   5. GHGraham Hancock15:46

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:47

      ... people reject that.

   7. GHGraham Hancock15:48

      I've come- I've come to the point, and I'm gonna say something, some strong words here. I- I- I-

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:52

      Get crazy. Get crazy, Graham Hancock.

   9. GHGraham Hancock15:54

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       (laughs)

   11. GHGraham Hancock15:55

       I've- I've come to the point where I- I believe that some archeologists, not all of them, most actually, this- this problem is with a small number of archeologists, but they're extremely vocal. Um, I think what we're looking at is a kind of abuse of power. Uh, archeology- archeologists have a power. They are the official spokespeople for the- for the past.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       Mm-hmm.

   13. GHGraham Hancock16:17

       And they use that power to slap down any point of view that doesn't agree with theirs. So I think that there's- there's an abuse of power there, and at the same time, uh, there's not a realization that that's happening because the mindset that drives it is the feeling that members of the general public are unable to decide things for themselves. This is the arrogance of archeology, that they feel that they have to tell people what to think about the past, and they underestimate the intelligence of the public and- and the ability of the public to discern, to make choices between different possibilities about the past. They think that ... Archeologists seem to think that only one possibility of the past must be considered, uh, by the general public, and that's their possibility. And it reminds me a lot of the heresy hunters back in the 16th century, you know? The- the people who disagreed with their point of view got burned at the stake. Well, you don't get burned at the stake today, but you can get lynched by a mob of archeologists online.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       Well, it's also the same thing that we saw during COVID.

   15. GHGraham Hancock17:15

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       With medical experts-

   17. GHGraham Hancock17:16

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       ... that disagreed with the narrative. It's the same thing.

   19. GHGraham Hancock17:18

       It is absolutely the same thing.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:19

       When you take esteemed professors and doctors and physicians and you- you cast them into this kook label because they disagree with the narrative that the medical establishment is pushing, and then they turn out to be correct-

   21. GHGraham Hancock17:32

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:32

       ... which most of them did-

   23. GHGraham Hancock17:33

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       ... you- you see the same patterns. It's just power.

   25. GHGraham Hancock17:36

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       It's just power and people that t- have their identity wrapped up in them being the ones that have access to the actual information.

   27. GHGraham Hancock17:44

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       They don't want it to be distributed by some guy on Netflix.

   29. GHGraham Hancock17:48

       That's right. It's- (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:49

       (laughs)
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Huh? …

   1. GHGraham Hancock30:00

      the moment we start talking about people's facial features, then they jump in with, "You're being a racist. You're being a white supremacist," or whatever, although-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      Huh?

   3. GHGraham Hancock30:07

      ... the Olmec heads- (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      But why ... This is the thing.

   5. GHGraham Hancock30:09

      ... don't serve white supremacism.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:10

      Not at all. How- how would that be racist as a ... racist if these were the most advanced seafaring people alive 6,000 years ago?

   7. GHGraham Hancock30:18

      Yeah. Uh, again, the- the-

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:19

      It would be kind of the opposite.

   9. GHGraham Hancock30:20

      The racism angle is just being used to shut it down.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       Right.

   11. GHGraham Hancock30:23

       This is something that we, uh, uh, particularly in the w- climate in the world today.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       Well, Flint does that a lot.

   13. GHGraham Hancock30:28

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:29

       He does that a ... I saw him do that to Jimmy Corsetti online o- over uses of, uh, parentheses or- or brackets. Did you see that?

   15. GHGraham Hancock30:37

       Yeah, I did, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       That somehow or another that's a code for Jews.

   17. GHGraham Hancock30:40

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:40

       Like, I thought it ... I thought what he was doing was avoiding, um, there's- there's certain algorithms that pick up on s- particular words that you use. Like, you- you ever see that people, they- they don't ... Like, if they want their post to be more viral, they don't write the word shooter.

   19. GHGraham Hancock30:57

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       They write S-H and then they put, like, two asterisks and then T-E-R-S.

   21. GHGraham Hancock31:02

       I've noticed people doing that, yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       So ... Yes. So what people are trying to do by blanking out swear words and cutting out different words is that you- you can bypass algorithms-

   23. GHGraham Hancock31:12

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       ... that selectively remove or limit the distribution-

   25. GHGraham Hancock31:15

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       ... of those kind of posts with those keywords in it.

   27. GHGraham Hancock31:18

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       So that apparently was all he was trying to do, was adding brackets to something to, you know, to enhance the algorithm.

   29. GHGraham Hancock31:24

       To enhance the algorithm, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       But it's just like ... Accusing someone of racism, it should be, like ...It should be ... So, it should be very clear what they're saying. There should be-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   It definitely looks like…

   1. GHGraham Hancock45:00

      years.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      It definitely looks like it was something that spun, right? 'Cause you have that hollowed out piece in the center that you would have an axle on or something-

   3. GHGraham Hancock45:06

      Feels like that.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:06

      ... along those lines. Yeah.

   5. GHGraham Hancock45:07

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. NANarrator45:07

      For sure. It looks like it's welded in certain spots too, but like, how?

   7. GHGraham Hancock45:11

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      Well, how do they weld stone?

   9. NANarrator45:13

      Or how the hell do they hold it... I don't, um...

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:14

       How... Well, it's apparently they carved that shape out of just one block. That's crazy.

   11. GHGraham Hancock45:18

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:18

       Now, that one looks ultra precise.

   13. GHGraham Hancock45:20

       Yeah.

   14. NANarrator45:20

       This one might have been remade off of the original, maybe?

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:22

       Click on that, see what that is?

   16. GHGraham Hancock45:23

       I would say that's a remake.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:24

       Is it?

   18. GHGraham Hancock45:26

       Hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:27

       If it's not, it's insane. That's even more insane.

   20. GHGraham Hancock45:30

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       'Cause that looks so perfect. Why does it look different than the other images?

   22. NANarrator45:35

       Uh, I don't know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       Well, go to back to that one where it's spinning around. Yeah, look at it when-

   24. NANarrator45:41

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:41

       ... it spins around. That looks pretty precise.

   26. GHGraham Hancock45:43

       Yeah.

   27. NANarrator45:44

       They do look like they've recreate... Did they only find one and they've recreated it for museums, or is there-

   28. GHGraham Hancock45:48

       No.

   29. NANarrator45:49

       ... just found multiple?

   30. GHGraham Hancock45:49

       There's, there's, there's, there's one original. I have no doubt people have tried to make copies with, with modern materials. But, but-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:14:07

   No, it hasn't. It's,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

   2. GHGraham Hancock1:00:00

      No, it hasn't. It's, it's, it's-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      It's too vast.

   4. GHGraham Hancock1:00:02

      It's too vast, and it's too expensive to excavate that-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      And excavation, like, you would have to... Y- you're dealing with a place where how many people even lived there?

   6. GHGraham Hancock1:00:13

      Nobody knows 'cause it's not been investigated properly. It's a desert. Uh, and, and, uh, it's had relatively little attention. We do know there's some amazing rock art from the Upper Paleolithic, uh, in, in Tassili in Algeria, in, in the Sahara, um, but not enough has been done. This is, this is the, this is the problem for me with saying archeology's basically got the story of the human past nailed down, is that there's huge areas which have not been investigated. And I reject the idea that that is a god of the gaps argument, because that's not why I'm proposing there was a lost civilization. And that's all I'm doing. I'm not insisting. I'm not demanding that people believe me. I'm just, I just want to inject this idea into the discussion-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

      Well s-

   8. GHGraham Hancock1:00:57

      ... so that it can, can be considered... W- when... Taken out of context was a little clip where you asked me, eh, eh, is, eh, eh, in, during the debate, um, "Is there any evidence for your lost civilization in what they've found?" Uh? And I said, "In what they've found, no." And then I went on to say, um, "But that brings us to the point of what they've looked for and what they've not looked for, what they've found and what they've not found." Um, that has been taken again and again as, as me saying that there's no evidence-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:27

      Right.

   10. GHGraham Hancock1:01:27

       ... for my lost civilization, whereas what I'm actually saying is there's no evidence in what archeologists have studied, uh, for a lost civilization, because I'm not studying what archeologists study. I am very happy to use material from archeologists, and I could not do what I do if I didn't use material from archeologists. It's a very important basis to my work. However, it's the astronomy, it's the astronomical alignments, it's the precision, it's the precision of the Great Pyramid. It's the myths, it's the myths of a global flood all around the world. This is a- th- it's a universal story of a massive cataclysm with a few survivors who bring their knowledge to others. The story... This is one of the reasons why I think the Atlantis story, which, which Flint Dibble is so opposed to, uh, deserves to be taken seriously, uh, because...It's part of a global tradition. It's yet another flood myth, in fact. It's the story, it's just like those 150 or 200 other flood traditions that come from around the world. And it's not enough for archaeologists to say, "Oh, people experienced a little local river flood, uh, or, or there was a tidal wave that day, and so they decided that the whole world was submerged with water." That doesn't satisfy me at all. The fact that this is found all around the world, to me, is a memory of something that happened to our ancestors, something so traumatic, something so huge, that it's been preserved better than almost anything else from our past.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:02:54

       What do, what is your take on the Richart struc ... Am I saying that right? Richart structure?

   12. GHGraham Hancock1:02:57

       Richart, Richart Structure.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:02:59

       Richart.

   14. GHGraham Hancock1:02:59

       Mauritania. Um, I, I would not like to say one way or the other, because I've not been there. Um, I've not, I've not had boots on the ground there. I've not been able to look at it. Yes, it's very intriguing.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03:11

       Very.

   16. GHGraham Hancock1:03:12

       I, um-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:03:13

       Also, the salt all around it?

   18. GHGraham Hancock1:03:15

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:03:15

       Where it shows that at one point in time, it was probably submerged. Like, something happened.

   20. GHGraham Hancock1:03:19

       Pro- probably was, but you might have to go back many millions of years to get, to get to that point. The honest answer to that question is I don't know. I'm, I'm open-minded on the Richat Structure. It's something that I would like to, I would like to study, um, but I have not, uh, had had time to yet. In, in future work, it's something that I may, that I may study, and after studying it, I may come to the conclusion that it's just a remarkable natural phenomenon, of which there are many. Or I may come to a different conclusion. It depends what the, what the evidence shows me. But I try not to, to spout off on things that I'm not personally acquainted with and don't really know about.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:50

       Well, good for you.

   22. GHGraham Hancock1:03:52

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:03:52

       I like to spout off. Uh, it's also, like, there's so many of those things that people thought were myth, like Troy.

   24. GHGraham Hancock1:03:57

       Troy, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:58

       Then they find it, and they go, "Oh, it's from a place."

   26. GHGraham Hancock1:04:00

       Found by, fr- found by an amateur. Turns out to be, turns out to be a real place.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:04:03

       (laughs)

   28. GHGraham Hancock1:04:04

       I think the myths are the memory banks of our species, uh, and I don't think archaeology takes them seriously enough. There's a tendency to just dismiss them as fantasies, uh, as, as things that were made up-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:15

       Mm-hmm.

   30. GHGraham Hancock1:04:15

       ... by, by the ancients for some bizarre reason of their own. But they're the memories we have from the time before writing, from the time before documents were kept, uh, and they're a precious resource in, in understanding our past. So, it's, it's things like that, and then at the end of the day, (laughs) to say, to twist what I said, uh, that in, in what archaeologists have studied there's no evidence for my lost civilization, uh, is, is, uh, is completely wrong, because I've, I've, I've written thousands of pages of books. This is, this is one of the issues. Like, in that debate, I was supposed to prove everything about a lost civilization. I didn't even come here to prove it. I came here to explain why I'm interested in it, and why I want to share my interest and my curiosity about the past, uh, with others. But if, if I'm asked to prove it, I would say, "Don't refer to what I managed to say during a three-hour debate." I'd say, "Refer to, to the, the eight or so major books that I've written with thousands of pages and thousands of documented footnotes." That's where my, my argument is in place, and you'll find that that argument is not based on what archaeologists have studied. It's based prec- precisely on what they've not studied about the past.

Episode duration: 2:29:00