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Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump

Donald Trump is currently the 2024 Presidential Candidate of the Republican Party. He previously served as America’s 45th president, and is also a businessman and media personality.

Joe RoganhostDonald Trumpguest
Oct 26, 20242h 58mWatch on YouTube ↗

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  1. 0:00 – 1:38

    Intro

    1. JR

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. DT

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) All right, we're rolling. Good to see you, sir.

    4. DT

      Let's go.

    5. JR

      Here we go. (laughs) Um, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about, I wanted to play this, but we decided we shouldn't play it because, uh, it could get copyright strike and we don't want to get the episode... Well, we don't want anybody to have any sort of a way to get it down.

    6. DT

      Sure.

    7. JR

      But it was the episode of you when you were on The View, and I think it was 2015 or 2016, like when you were running for president.

    8. DT

      Right.

    9. JR

      And you sat... You got introduced as our friend Donald Trump.

    10. DT

      That's right.

    11. JR

      Whoopi Goldberg gives you a big hug and a kiss. Joy Behar gives you a big hug. Barbara Walters gives you a big hug. They all loved you. They were all talking about how your, um... You, you might be... Y- you might be conservative in your financial positions, but you're very liberal socially. They were l- they were talking about you in such a favorable light.

    12. DT

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      The audience was cheering. And then you actually started winning in the polls, and then the machine started working towards you.

    14. DT

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      But it's... There's probably no one in history that I've ever seen that's been attacked the way you've been attacked and the way they've done it, so coordinated and systematically. When you see those same people in the past, very favorable to you, like Oprah, when you were on Oprah show.

    16. DT

      Yeah, very.

    17. JR

      She was encouraging

  2. 1:38 – 5:47

    The Apprentice

    1. JR

      you to be president.

    2. DT

      Last week I did one of her last shows, I think maybe Thursday or Frid- That was a big deal, being on Oprah's show, the last one. And I was, like, one of the last shows in that last... that final week. And I said, "Boy, we've come a long way since" (laughs) since that. And-

    3. JR

      What was it like?

    4. DT

      Uh, well, y- the concept, it was really like two different lives. You know, I had a, a very wonderful life, but I, I wanted to do this. The Apprentice was still going very strong. We had 12 seasons. And, uh, we had actually, uh, 14 seasons, 12 years over... We- they had a couple of them-

    5. JR

      Well, they canceled The Apprentice when you were running for president, correct?

    6. DT

      No, they had Arnold Schwarzenegger do it. I was involved in that and I want- I had enough of it. And we did great, it was doing great, but they wanted me to stay. They all came to see me. They said, "We're gonna give you a contract." They wanted to extend my contract. Mark Burnett is a great guy and they wanted to extend the contract. Mark said, "You're crazy. Don't run, don't run. No- Nobody gives up primetime," they said. You know, it's one of those little things, which is probably true. Mostly for the most-

    7. JR

      Nobody gives up primetime though for being president?

    8. DT

      For, for running... Well, for running against 20 some odd people, you know?

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DT

      It turned out to be 18. 18 professional people, you know, mostly politicians. They said, "Who would do this?" I mean, it's a long shot. Actually, the heads of NBC came over, the, uh, Paul Telegney, all the, all the top people came over to see me, try and talk me out of it 'cause they wanted to have me extend. The Apprentice was doing well. I- So, it was 14 seasons, it was 12 years. We had one, two seasons where we had a double, which rarely happens. It was just a hot show. And, uh, I said, "You know, I wanna do this." What happened is, uh, previously, like three years, four years before that, they did a poll, they had Mitt Romney and somehow they put me in a poll and I blew everybody away. I blew him away, which isn't that hard, frankly. But I blew everybody away and I said, "That's interesting," 'cause I never really gave it that much real thought. I thought about it, but never real thought. But I saw these polls were very good and so I was thinking about doing it then, but I had a contract with The Apprentice, plus I was building two big buildings at the time and I wanted to make sure they got finished up properly, and it was one of those things. The kids were just sort of getting involved. They're very capable kids, but they were getting involved early on. So, I did that. I got them done, I had some very good successes and I came on. And then I thought about it for the next one after the Romney disaster. And I ran and I won against Hillary. And it was quite an experience. But it was a different life because you're right, The View, I was on The View many, many times and, uh, they loved me. I remember-

    11. JR

      Just the way people would talk. I mean, even if people had criticisms a- about you, people that didn't like you, there was always feuds and stuff like that, but the reality was the thing turned on you when they found out that you were gonna be president. It was very coordinated. And some people are catching onto that now. There's a lot of people that were longtime Democrats like Elon and Bill Ackman and-

    12. DT

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... all these different very intelligent people.

    14. DT

      And they support me now. Bill Ackman supports me.

    15. JR

      And they support you now. Yes.

    16. DT

      He's been very supportive too.

    17. JR

      What... This is what I wanted to ask you. What was it like when you actually got in? 'Cause nobody really can prepare you for that. When you're running for president, you don't really know what it's gonna be like when you actually get into office. What was the... What did you think it was gonna be like?

    18. DT

      So, do you mean in office or when I decided to run? So you-

    19. JR

      No, when you got in. When you got in.

    20. DT

      Oh, when I was in? So, when I was in and won and was in the White House, essentially?

    21. JR

      Yes.

    22. DT

      Well, first of all, it was very surreal.

    23. JR

      Oh, did you imagine?

    24. DT

      You know, it's very interesting. When I got shot, it wasn't surreal. That should've been surreal. When I was laying on the ground, I knew exactly what was going on, I knew exactly where I was hit. They were saying you were hit all over the place because there was so much blood from the ear. You would know that better than anyone, when they get the ear torn off, it's some big bleed.

    25. JR

      Ears bleed a lot, yeah.

    26. DT

      Anyway, so... And, and I was thinking the other day, when, when that happened, I really knew where I was, I knew exactly what happened. I said I wasn't hit anywhere else. With the, with the presidency, it was a very surreal experience, okay? And-

    27. JR

      Like, what's day one like?

    28. DT

      So-

    29. JR

      You win-

    30. DT

      Yeah. S-

  3. 5:47 – 8:19

    The White House

    1. JR

      I'm the president."

    2. DT

      Yeah, that's what happened. So, I'm driving down Pennsylvania Avenue. I had just built a building on Pennsyl- you know, the hotel, the old post office it was, we called it Trump National, uh, Hotel. And we sold it to the Waldorf Astoria and it was a wonderful thing. But I'm driving down, I'm passing the hotel. You've never seen so many motorcycles, police, military. You know, it was a major thing. I got off...... really the first time I used Air Force One. Landed, and we're coming down, and there were... It was very beau-... I mean, it was incredible. And we're going down Pennsylvania Avenue in the opposite direction. You know, normally you're used to going one way and you're, all of a sudden, you're going the other way. The street was loaded up. And I wanted to go out, and I wanted to wave to everybody, but that wasn't smart. You know, they can s-... A little bit dangerous, right?

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. DT

      I mean, when you've watched, like, Kennedy and some others, right?

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. DT

      But I really felt... I, I don't know, the love was so crazy. And so I did get out of the car for a brief, you know, just for a very short walk. I thought it was very important to do. And Melania got out with her beautiful dress on that became sort of a staple. It was, uh, people loved it, and Barron, and we're walking down the street. But where it really got amazing, we get to the White House and now it's, uh, a little bit, uh, a little bit before dark, beautiful, and we went up to the, uh, president's, uh, quarters. They call 'em the presidential quarters. And I'm standing in this beautiful hallway. I... You know, it's funny, nobody ever talks about the White House as being beautiful inside. You know, you think it's gonna be, everything's gonna be all metal doors and stuff. It's not. It's so beautiful. I made my money largely on luxury. The hallway is, like, 25 feet wide. The ceiling heights are, you know, every... It's so beautiful. But I was standing there and I said to the guys, "I wanna see the Lincoln Bedroom." I had never seen the Lincoln Bedroom. I'd heard about the Lincoln Bedroom. And I was standing with my wife, I said, "Do you believe it? This is the Lincoln Bedroom." I mean, it was like... It was qu-... It was amazing. Because it's... Uh, look, if you love the country, but here you are, the Lincoln Bedroom. And the bed, you know, he was very tall. He was six foot six, which then would be like, like Barron (laughs) .

    7. JR

      Right. (laughs)

    8. DT

      It would be like Barron Trump. He's 6'9". But six foot six, he was very tall. Then on

  4. 8:19 – 12:32

    The Bed

    1. DT

      top of it, he wore-

    2. JR

      There it is.

    3. DT

      He wore the... Yeah, there it is. It's a long bed, elongated bed, and because very, you know, people were shorter then. You see some of the, uh, chairs are very, very low to the ground actually. But he had the long bed, and they had, uh, you had the Gettysburg Address right on that, right under that. You can't see it here, but right there, the original version of the Gettysburg Address. And this is the original. And I'm looking and I just looked around. I said, "Do you believe this?" Because I was never a polit-... First of all, even if you were a politician, but I was never a politician, it just... I sort of just started, right?

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. DT

      And all of a sudden I'm standing in the White House. And it was, uh, very, very surreal. That room was so beautiful to me. Much more beautiful than it actually is. You know, t- to me, when I looked at the bed... And the bed, you could see it was a little bit longer. It had to be a little bit longer. Uh, he lost his son, and they suffered... The two of 'em suffered from melancholia. They didn't call it depression, uh, they called it melancholia, and they suffered from it. He was a very depressed guy, and she was a very depressed woman, more so than him. And on top of that, they lost their son, uh, whose name was Tad. Tad. And, uh, it was, uh... Just seeing it, and the little pictures, the little tiny picture, I mean, you can't see the details there. Little tiny... Everything at the White House was... A little tiny picture of Tad, who he lost, and it was devastating. And he was, uh, you know, he was, uh, uh, look, he was in a war. He was, he wa-... And he was having a hard time because he couldn't beat Robert E. Lee. Robert E. Lee won, like, 13 battles in a row, and he was getting, like a phobia, like a fighter. You know-

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. DT

      ... a lot about the fight stuff. But, like, I went to a UFC fight, and it was a champion who was 14 and 1 about a year ago. You would know the names. 14 and 1, and the only guy he lost to was this one guy, but the guy that he was fighting was, like, almost just an average fighter. He lost numerous times, but he beat this one guy. So I said, "Okay, I'll-"

    8. JR

      I really don't know who you're talking about. I'm trying to-

    9. DT

      I, I, I will figure it out.

    10. JR

      Okay.

    11. DT

      But about a year ago... But the point is that he lost. He wasn't nearly the fighter as the o-... But the one who was not nearly the fighter had beaten... He's the only guy that beat the, the champ-

    12. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    13. DT

      ... like, five years before. And I said, "I'll take the guy that won the other fight." (laughs) And that's what happened. He beat him a second time. Uh, Lincoln-

    14. JR

      Sometimes it's psychological advantages.

    15. DT

      Yeah, what is this crazy thing?

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      Uh, and Lincoln had a, a... I don't know, I've never read this, I heard it from people in the White House who really understand what was going on with, with the whole life of the White House. But Lincoln had, uh, uh, the yips about, uh, in a way, as the golfers would say.

    18. JR

      Hmm.

    19. DT

      He had a phobia about Robert E. Lee. He said, "I can't beat Robert." Because Robert E. Lee won many battles in a row. He was just beating the hell out of... And you know, they tried to get Robert E. Lee to be on the North, but he said, "No, I have to be with my state." You know? And the state was his whole thing, and, and he went to the South. And he was, uh... I've had generals tell me... We have some great generals. The real generals, not the ones you see on television, the ones that beat ISIS with me. We defeated ISIS in record time. It was supposed to take years, and we did it in a matter of weeks. These are great generals. These are tough guys. These are not woke guys. But their favorite general, in terms of genius, was Robert E. Lee. He took a war-

    20. JR

      In terms of strategy, you mean?

    21. DT

      Strategy, strategically. He took a war that should've been over in a few days, and it was, you know, years of hell, a vicious war. And, um, so here I am standing there and, again, I had never really done this before. You know, I ran, I'd ran a number of months before I won. I probably, uh, I guess if you figured max it out, it would be a year, something like that. So, I had never run for office.... and I did well. I mean, I, I went into debates. We had 18 people, including me, and then slowly but surely, they started to disappear. We had debates, good debates.

  5. 12:32 – 19:29

    The Experience

    1. DT

    2. JR

      Everyone's aware of all this stuff, but what I wanna get to is, like, what was the experience once you got inside?

    3. DT

      It was just-

    4. JR

      Like, what did you think it was gonna be like, in terms of, like, your ability to govern?

    5. DT

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      Like, this is your first experience governing anything. You'd never been a-

    7. DT

      Yeah. There was-

    8. JR

      ... governor. You'd never been a mayor.

    9. DT

      ... private. Yeah.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. DT

      Private, private stuff.

    12. JR

      Business.

    13. DT

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      But now, all of a sudden-

    15. DT

      Well, the big-

    16. JR

      ... you're inside the White House.

    17. DT

      The biggest thing was just that first moment of being in this, uh, hallowed ... It was really a hallowed place to me.

    18. JR

      Right. Surreal.

    19. DT

      It was, it was beyond ... To me, that, that was the experience. It was a surreal experience. And then, with time, that wears off. With time, it becomes, you know, your place where you stay and-

    20. JR

      Right.

    21. DT

      ... uh, I was doing a lot of ... I was ... I had two things that I really focused on: governing the country and, uh, survival. Because from the moment I won, before I got to office, all of a sudden, it, I mean, they came down on me. Nobody has ever been treated that way. And, and you see that. I mean, you see where in the Washington Post very early on, they said, "Well, now the impeachment stuff starts." And it did. I mean, it literally started from the beginning. So I had survival and run the nation. I had a, a combination. Most people don't have the survival. They get in. Uh, I think-

    22. JR

      What, what did you expect though, in terms of, like, once you got inside? You had to appoint all these people.

    23. DT

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Like, how many appointments did you have to make-

    25. DT

      Well, you have actually-

    26. JR

      ... for that very short amount of time?

    27. DT

      ... you have actually 10,000, uh, appointments. Now, they're different. You know, you have big ones and then they appoint-

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. DT

      ... 100 people and 200 people. And, but the president really is, is involved with approximately 10,000 appointments, so you'll appoint a secretary of state and he will, he or she-

    30. JR

      Right.

  6. 19:29 – 21:05

    Stiffs

    1. DT

      somewhat dangerous, in fact.

    2. JR

      So you're kinda stuck in a position where you have to pick established people, and then the problem with established people is established people are already indoctrinated into the system.

    3. DT

      And they're stiffs in many cases.

    4. JR

      Stiffs?

    5. DT

      They're stiffs. They're survivors. I find that, you know-

    6. JR

      What do you mean by stiffs? What do you mean by stiffs?

    7. DT

      A stiff, they don't, they don't have nothing. They have nothing. Or they're smart and survivor. One, one little thing. So, there was a congressman, years before I ran, and I was very close to him. And I needed a license on something and he was very important in getting the license, but it was a little bit controversial, the license, the, this particular thing that was being licensed. But I was close to this guy and helped him in everything else, and I went to him, I said, "I'd like to have your help." And, uh, he said, um, "Let me take a look at it." I said, "Ooh, that's not too good. Uh, but I really hope you can help." Anyway, he tapped me along for a long period of time and ultimately didn't do it, and I said, "You are a stiff. You coulda done this thing so easy," et cetera, but it was controversial. He was in Congress for many years, like 28 years. And you know, there's a reason. When somebody's there for 28 years, you gotta be sorta smart.

    8. JR

      Right. A survivor.

    9. DT

      You know, you have all the scandals, all... And I realized he was a survivor. What he did-

    10. JR

      And so they never do anything controversial.

    11. DT

      Well, they don't, uh-

    12. JR

      They never take any chances or speak their opinion-

    13. DT

      Yeah, they don't take-

    14. JR

      ... that's outside of it.

    15. DT

      Yeah. Yeah, sometimes.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      And yet, I don't disrespect them for it.

    18. JR

      So-

    19. DT

      I actually respected the guy more in a weird (laughs) and certain way. I said, you know-

    20. JR

      'Cause he did survive.

    21. DT

      "You know what? He's been there for, like, for 28 years and he made it through. A lot of people don't make it through." You know, it's-

    22. JR

      It's a good way for non-exceptional people to survive.

    23. DT

      It, well, it is.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. DT

      I mean, it certainly

  7. 21:05 – 26:19

    Bad Choices

    1. DT

      is.

    2. JR

      So you're, you're in there. You have 10,000 appointments you have to make, like, so you're getting advice from people, and at w- at one point in time, did you have a moment in time where you realized, like, uh, "These are bad choices," like, "Some of these people I shouldn't have had in there"?

    3. DT

      Oh, yeah. I think... So, the one question that you'll ask me that, I think you'll ask me, that seem, people seem to ask, and I always come up with the same answer. Uh, if, I, I, the one mistake, 'cause I did, I had a lot of success. Great economy, great everything. Everything was great. We, we, the military, we rebuilt it, biggest tax cuts in history. All this stuff. We did, we had a great presidency. Um, s- three Supreme Court justices. Most people get none. You know, you pick 'em young.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DT

      This way, they're there for 50 years, right?

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. DT

      So, you know, even if a president is there for eight years, oftentimes they never have a chance. I had three. It was sort of the luck of the draw, but, uh, I, I will say that it always comes back to the same answer. The biggest mistake I made was I picked some people, I picked some great people, you know, but you don't think about that. I picked some people that I shouldn't have picked. I picked a few people that I shouldn't have picked. And-

    8. JR

      Neocons?

    9. DT

      Yeah, neocons, or bad people, or disloyal people, or, uh-

    10. JR

      People that were just bad-

    11. DT

      ... people that weren't, uh, you know, people that-

    12. JR

      ... you got bad advice.

    13. DT

      Yeah. I mean, look. I mean, you're reading about 'em a little bit today. Uh, a guy like Kelly, who was a bully, a bully, but a weak, a weak person, you know? You know more about bullies than anybody probably around 'cause you deal in a, a certain sport-

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. DT

      ... where the bullies are exposed very quickly.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      But, you know, uh, he's bad. Uh, Bolton was, uh, an idiot, but he was great for me because I'd go in with a guy like a John Bolton. Do you know John Bolton?

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. DT

      A friend of mine called, called me up. I was picking Bolton, and he's a very smart guy. His name is Phil Ruffin. He's a very rich guy from Las Vegas, one of the... He's a great card player. He doesn't play cards, but he's a great player. You know, he's just a natural-

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. DT

      ... got poker sense, right? You know-

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. DT

      ... good old poker sense. And Phil Ruffin is, is a very, very wise kind of a guy, and very, one of the richest people around, and has had great success and understands people. So, it was in that I was picking Bolton, or I picked Bolton. He called up, he said, "Don't pick him." "Why?" "He's a bad guy." I w- Now, he wasn't in politics at all. He's in various businesses. He said, "He's a bad guy. He's just, uh, uh, it always works out bad with that guy." And I said, "Oh, man, I wish you told me this two weeks ago. I already hired him." You know, "He's, he's here." And, and he was right, but, uh, but he was good in a certain way. He's a nut job, and every time I had to deal with a country, when they saw this wack job standing behind me, they said, "Oh, man. Trump's gonna go to war with us." He was with Bush when they went stupidly into the Middle East. They shoulda never done it. I used to say it as a civilian. So, I always got more publicity than other people, and I didn't, it wasn't like I was trying. In fact, I don't know exactly why. Maybe you can tell me why.

    24. JR

      Oh, I can definitely tell you. You said a lot of wild shit. (laughs)

    25. DT

      Maybe. (laughs) Maybe I did. Maybe I did.

    26. JR

      (laughs) You said a lot of wild shit, and then-

    27. DT

      Maybe I did.

    28. JR

      ... CNN, uh, in their, all their brilliance, by highlighting your wild shit, made you much more popular.

    29. DT

      Yeah. Yeah.

    30. JR

      And they boosted you in the polls 'cause people were tired of someone-... talking in this bullshit, pre-prepared politician lingo. And even if they didn't agree with you, they at least knew, w- whoever that guy is, that's him. That's really him.

  8. 26:19 – 29:19

    Dangerous Business

    1. JR

      we would have never heard the end of it.

    2. DT

      But I think he's in good shape because it's only consequential presidents. If you take a look at what's happened... Look, I'm for having countries pay us billions and billions and trillions, even dollars. I took in hundreds of billions of dollars from China. Nobody took in 10 cents, not one other president. I do things that make it... I mean, that don't necessarily make me so popular. I just do what's right. And when you do that, you know, you're more... Look at, look at Iran. Iran... We would've never had the attack on Israel at all. Iran was broke. I told China, "If you buy, you can't do business in the United States under any cir-" I was gonna... We were gonna go cold turkey with China. Some people think that would've been a good idea anyway. But if you buy any oil, one barrel of oil from them, you're not doing business. I said that to many countries. Iran was broke. They had no money for Hezbollah. They had no money for Hamas. They had no money. But I make myself... You know, I mean, I understand what I'm doing. Uh, it... You make yourself a target and it's a very dangerous business. But if you just look at statistically, so I, I said... I saw a thing, I don't know if it's right, but 1/10 of 1% for a race car driver. You know, that's pretty dangerous business, right?

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. DT

      Uh, 1/10 of 1% for a bull rider. I, I tell you, to me, I-

    5. JR

      You're talking death.

    6. DT

      These guys that ride the bulls is worse than UFC. It's the worst.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DT

      These guys, they... You see these big monster bulls and you see it in slow motion where the, the foot is like-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DT

      ... uh, you know, an inch away from the head. If it hits him, the guy's gone. But they die. You know, they die.

    11. JR

      So 1/10 of 1% die, that... Are you saying?

    12. DT

      Yeah. Yeah, 1/10 of 1% die.

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. DT

      And they certainly get hurt badly, uh, really. I mean, they can't walk after a certain period of time. But, but with a president, if you look at-

    15. JR

      The amount of assassination attempts.

    16. DT

      ... the assassination attempts.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. DT

      And, and attempts too.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. DT

      And attempts. No, it's a very dangerous position. I never thought of that, by the way, when I did it. I... You know, you don't, you don't tend to think... I don't-

    21. JR

      Did you just assume because people loved you-

    22. DT

      I don't think it's-

    23. JR

      ... on The Apprentice they were gonna love you as a president?

    24. DT

      Well, if they did, it would be so easy.

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. DT

      You know, it was very interesting.

    27. JR

      Well, probably would have been if the media didn't attack you the way they did, if they didn't conflate you with Hitler. I mean, even today, like Kamala was talking about you and Hitler. You're... They're gonna take what you said about Robert E. Lee. "Oh, Donald Trump wishes the South won."

    28. DT

      Oh, he loves Robert E. Lee. That's right.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. DT

      He loves Robert E. Lee.

  9. 29:19 – 31:19

    The Greatest President

    1. JR

      years ago.

    2. DT

      But Whoopi loved me. Whoopi loved me.

    3. JR

      Loved you, gives you a hug and a kiss.

    4. DT

      And how about that other one, the new one on there, the, uh, the one from my administration? She writes me a letter, "You're the greatest president." She leaves. You know, she worked as a... Like, as an assistant press secretary. I hardly knew her. But she leaves and she writes me this gorgeous letter. What's her name? She was, uh... I don't even know. You know, she... Anyway, she was in the administration. She's on there currently. Sits in the far right-hand side, whatever the hell her name is. And-

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. DT

      And she writes a letter, the most beautiful letter. She's quoted in the paper, "He's a consequential. He was the greatest president," blah, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, she goes on The View and she started hitting the hell out of me because they won't hire unless... I've had many people go on CNN and they called and said, "I don't know what to do. What... They wanna pay me a lot, but I have to be negative on you." I said, "Be negative. That's okay." There are guys on, like, CNN, they won't hire them. Sean Duffy is a, you know, congressman and he retired. He got a good job with CNN, but he was only positive about Trump. So they kept him, but they would never put him on. I mean, I respect what he did. He could have gone, you know, negative. I tell people, "Go negative." You know-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DT

      ... let my friends make the money.

    9. JR

      Well, it's just-

    10. DT

      It's so crooked. The press is so crooked.

    11. JR

      It is crooked. It's crooked, but it's also... They're diminishing themselves. They're, they, they are-

    12. DT

      They're hurting themselves.

    13. JR

      They're killing all their credibility. And it's opening up the credibility to new media. It's opening up the credibility to independent media. All these-

    14. DT

      The worst I've ever seen, though?... and I've seen the worst. I mean, I, I've been a part of it. I've been... I've seen the worst. Kamala goes on 60 Minutes, gave an answer that a child wouldn't give, it was so bad. And 60 Minutes took the answer out, they took the whole... and they put another answer in.

    15. JR

      They edited it deceptively.

    16. DT

      ... wh- which didn't make sense-

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. DT

      ... either, but it was better. They took the... Well, it wasn't editing, it was fraud.

    19. JR

      It was... yeah.

    20. DT

      This was not editing.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. DT

      You know, editing is where I'll give an answer and they'll take a couple of words and change them around, or they might even take a sentence or two off, which is very bad. But that's...

  10. 31:19 – 33:19

    The Weave

    1. DT

      It's sort of bad. You know, I'd give an answer which was a very good answer. I always talk about, you know, I like to give long... the weave. You know? I like to give-

    2. JR

      Yeah, you like to weave things in.

    3. DT

      Yeah. But when you do the weaves... and you have to be very smart to do weaves. When you do the weave... Look at this, just in this one thing. We're talking about little pieces all over here-

    4. JR

      Uh-huh.

    5. DT

      But it always ends up-

    6. JR

      Gotta get back home.

    7. DT

      No, no. O-... it comes back home-

    8. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    9. DT

      ... for the right people. For the wrong people, it doesn't come back home and they end up in the wilderness, right?

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. DT

      But, but they can take my answer... And you know what? They may take a little piece of it out or some... And they use the term, "Yes, we wanted to save time." Well, it's not r-... But I've never heard... I think it's the biggest scandal in broadcast history, what happened to CN-... S-... CBS. So you have CBS 60 Minutes. That's a news program. It's not an entertainment program. It's under their news. It's the head of their news thing. She gives an answer that was... that shows that she's essentially incompetent, and they took the answer. Could you imagine them doing that for me?

    12. JR

      We can show it if you want people to see it.

    13. DT

      Go ahead.

    14. JR

      Can we show it? No?

    15. DT

      Sure.

    16. JR

      We'll get in trouble? We'll get copyright strike? For the same reason, I don't think so. Okay.

    17. DT

      I'll indemn-... I'll indemnify you.

    18. JR

      Listen, anyone can find it, but it's, it's drastic.

    19. DT

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      But what was un-... interesting was the other full version was available initially. It was like a preview.

    21. DT

      They... Somebody made a big mistake.

    22. JR

      Somebody put that preview out there and then-

    23. DT

      Some kid put the preview out-

    24. JR

      Exactly.

    25. DT

      ... and then the bosses did this or that.

    26. JR

      Exactly.

    27. DT

      And then all of a sudden they said, "We got a problem."

    28. JR

      Exactly. And then it became-

    29. DT

      They got caught by mistake.

    30. JR

      Well, you know-

  11. 33:19 – 35:19

    The Debate

    1. DT

      that was aside, I never even heard of her, but they kept interrupting me. It was like... I said, "How many people am I debating here? I d-... I got this one and I got you two." But he went after me 11 different times. You know, it's interesting. I always thought he was a nice guy, but he's just like the rest of them, you know?

    2. JR

      Well, that's his job, unfortunately, and I'm, I'm sure-

    3. DT

      No, but not when they're wrong.

    4. JR

      ... what, what they want... You're right. Well, the problem was they fact-checked you and they didn't fact-check her.

    5. DT

      Not at all.

    6. JR

      And one of the most egregious examples of that was when she said that there is... there are no troops right now deployed-

    7. DT

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      ... in war zones.

    9. DT

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      There's a very famous viral video that went online of troops in a war zone saying, "Well, what the fuck are we then?" Because there's thousands of them. Dan Crenshaw, the congressman, uh, posted on his Instagram all of the various examples of-

    11. DT

      Oh, yeah. Too many.

    12. JR

      ... troops that are deployed.

    13. DT

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Thousands and thousands of troops that are currently deployed.

    15. DT

      S-... stupidly deployed.

    16. JR

      But the point is, if this is going to be an actual real debate and not a propaganda exercise-

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... if it's gonna be a real debate, you have to fact-check everybody.

    19. DT

      So they, they never went after her?

    20. JR

      Like, if someone says... Maybe she thought there was no-

    21. DT

      Right.

    22. JR

      ... which is also a problem. So it's one of two things. It's either it was n-... not true, it was a lie on purpose, which is n-... terrible, or it was the opposite, it was ignorance, which is also terrible.

    23. DT

      Well, Joe, when I said crime is soaring, he said, "No, no. Crime has gone down." I said, "Where did you hear that one? Crime has gone down?" I mean, I'm debating with this guy, but I've had that-

    24. JR

      Well, there was amended FBI statistics that came out after that-

    25. DT

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      ... that showed that crime had gone up substantially.

    27. DT

      And by the way, the statistics were a fraud because when they put out the statistics, they didn't include some of the worst places. They didn't include some of the worst cities, s-... some of the most deadly places. But when the real numbers came out-

    28. JR

      And then there was also a problem-

    29. DT

      ... I turned out to be right, but I haven't got-

    30. JR

      You, you turn out to be right, but then there's another, another problem. Unreported crime is way up because people have lost... Look, the morale that the police department has-

  12. 35:19 – 37:19

    Cops

    1. JR

      But what they've done is they've, they, they've made these cops feel terrible. The, the... like, good cops. I think cops are just like everybody else. Most of them are great. It's like everybody else. But if you run into one carpenter and he does a shitty job in your house-

    2. DT

      That's right.

    3. JR

      ... you say, "Carpenters fucking suck." But they don't suck. Most of them are great. And that's the key thing with cops.

    4. DT

      Police have been-

    5. JR

      But the point is, like-

    6. DT

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      ... they, they did all of these things in this very foolish way-

    8. DT

      Right.

    9. JR

      ... and these cops are suffering the consequences of it. And so subsequently what happens is a lot of crime is unreported. A lot of crime, like, f-... you call the cops, they're too busy, they can't even get to you. Oh, your house got broken into? Sorry. You know, y-... it doesn't even make a report. There's a lot of people that d-... they just give up.

    10. DT

      It's so sad what's happened and I'll tell you what, uh, I go to police funerals and we went to one in Long Island, I visited the family in Long Island, a very big deal. It's so dangerous. People don't realize. The car, dark windows, pull over, he's a gentleman, "Please pull over." Door opens, guy comes out firing. Even if they were allowed to pull out their gun, which they're not, they can't, you know, pull out the-

    11. JR

      Doing time, yeah.

    12. DT

      They still wouldn't have time.

    13. JR

      It's every cop's worst nightmare.

    14. DT

      It... y-... they open the door and he was killed and his partner was hurt. He was killed and you don't ha... I mean, you don't even have an eighth of a second to think and it is such a dangerous job. That in particular. Think of it, you go up to a car, you don't know who's sitting there with a gun and if they have a gun, you really don't have a chance. You're not allowed to have your gun out, by the way, you have... they have very strict rules.... so, number one, they're... But even if you could have your gun out, the door opens and a guy... and bullets start firing out, you know. And especially where they have the dark windows, where they have the darkened windows, it is such a dangerous posi- uh, profession. And it's very hard to get cops now, because they- they're not given any backup. And you're right, you could... You know, they have like an eighth of a second to make a decision that's gonna change their life.

  13. 37:19 – 39:19

    PTSD

    1. DT

      If they make the wrong decision, they're gonna end up on the front page of every newspaper in, in the country, and they're gonna lose their house and their pension and their, their job, and their wife is gonna be gone, and everything's-

    2. JR

      Absolutely.

    3. DT

      ... going to be gone.

    4. JR

      And th- here's another thing that people don't talk about. How many of 'em have PTSD? Probably most of them.

    5. DT

      Yeah, it's a tragedy.

    6. JR

      These guys have seen people shot all the time-

    7. DT

      Yep.

    8. JR

      ... you know? Uh, I- I- I've talked to a ton of cops about it, and they... You know, a lot of cops commit suicide. A lot of cops are deeply depressed. A lot of cops, they've seen-

    9. DT

      But we have to give them back their dignity.

    10. JR

      Yes.

    11. DT

      We have to... We can't... We just have to give them back. You said it so good. You, you never hear some- anybody say that you're never gonna have it perfect. You're gonna have a bad apple.

    12. JR

      In everything, in every profession.

    13. DT

      Right. But every time there's a bad apple, that gets massive publicity, and it, it taints everybody else.

    14. JR

      But it's also this very irresponsible thing where people say, "Defund the police. Get rid of the police." You know, even Kamala Harris was a part of that, that... It's a, it's a very stupid way to look at it. What you should do is fund the police. You should have better training. You should have cops that feel more appreciated. You do, you should have some- something that helps mitigate this PTSD that all of them suffer through.

    15. DT

      That's right. She was, uh, a big part of defund the police. That was a big thing for her, defund the police, always defund the police.

    16. JR

      Well, it was... It's a political-

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... idea, right?

    19. DT

      Yeah. But any- anybody with that political thought-

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. DT

      ... I don't think should be running for president, and I think people are getting wise to it. You know, we're doing pretty well. Now, I don't know, maybe in a week from now I'll say, "Sorry about that. I was wrong." But we're leading everything, and I think we're gonna have a very good election. But I, I tell pe- because people are starting to get to know her. But she was defund the police, she was all these transgender operations. You know, if you wanted a sex change and you were in detention and you demanded a sex change, they would give you a sex change.

    22. JR

      Well, the wildest one is this idea of giving free sex change to illegal immigrants.

    23. DT

      That's right, in detention. (laughs)

    24. JR

      That is the wildest thing.

    25. DT

      Yes, but she was-

    26. JR

      Like, is that the biggest problem you have?

    27. DT

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      You just walked here from Guatemala, you need to become a girl?

    29. DT

      That's right. But she was in favor of it.

    30. JR

      Yes.

  14. 39:19 – 41:19

    Tariffs

    1. DT

      She was... Now, she changed. She's changed 15 policies.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. DT

      In fact, I'm gonna send her a MAGA cap because-

    4. JR

      She stole your idea about no tax for tips.

    5. DT

      I, I came up with this idea-

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. DT

      ... that honestly nobody ever heard of. And all... Now, it took her two months, but you know what? All of a sudden-

    8. JR

      It, well, it caught fire.

    9. DT

      And she just put it into a little speech.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. DT

      You know? Well-

    12. JR

      It became popular.

    13. DT

      But I think we have... I think we still have that issue. I think that issue is a good one for us. But, um, no, we have a lot of good issues. You know, we had the... The other day, think of how simple some of these things are. We're trying to get cars built in the United States. Detroit has been really tough. It's been a disaster. They have a huge factory, a huge car, auto plant being built by China in Mexico. Make cars, sell them in the United States, put everybody out of business, right? Here we go again. I said, "If that plant is there when I'm president, I will put 100 or 200% tariffs on every car. They'll be unsaleable in the United States." And they just announced they're not gonna build the plant because they think I'm gonna win. Think of it. They're not gonna build the plant. This was the biggest plant in the world. It would have... More than all of Michigan makes, that's how big. You know, this is what we're getting to. And I said, "If that plant goes up, I want them to understand, if I win, I'm gonna tax those cars at the rate of 100 or 200% a piece so that you won't be able to sell them in the United States." They just announced they're not gonna build the plant.

    14. JR

      Yeah, I read this.

    15. DT

      I did a big favor for our country by doing that. And I'm not even there yet. To me, the most beautiful word, and I've said this for the last couple of weeks, in the dictionary today, in any... Is the word tariff. It's more beautiful than love. It's more beautiful than anything. It's the most beautiful word. This country can become rich with the use, the proper use of tariffs. It'll keep companies-

    16. JR

      Did you just float out the idea of getting rid of income taxes and replacing it with tariffs?

    17. DT

      Well, okay-

    18. JR

      Were you serious about that?

    19. DT

      Our... Yeah, sure. Why not? Because we... Ready? Our country was

  15. 41:19 – 43:19

    McKinley Tariff King

    1. DT

      the richest in the eight- relatively, in the 1880s and 1890s. A president who was assassinated named McKinley, he was the tariff king. He spoke beautifully of tariffs. His, his language was really beautiful. Uh, "We will not allow the enemy to come in and take our jobs and take our factories and take our workers and take our families unless they pay a big price, and the big price is tariffs." And he'd speak like that, but he was right. And then around... In the early 1900s, they switched over stupidly to, frankly, an income tax. And you know why? Because countries were putting a lot of pressure on America. "We don't wanna pay tariffs. Please don't you..." You know, they... Believe me, they control our politicians. If you look at the kind of numbers that these guys make then and now... But we had a commission meeting in the, uh, eight... I think it was 1887. Think of this problem. We were so rich, we had so much money, we didn't know what to do. So, they set up a blue ribbon commission on tariffs, and the sole purpose is what to do with all the money we had. We were so rich because we were taxing other people for coming in and taking our jobs. And China does it. That's what China did. If you want to open a factory and sell cars... If you build a factory here or have a factory, they don't take our cars. They don't... They wouldn't take our cars. But if you build a plant in China, you can do that. Elon did that. By the way, Elon is great. That guy is such a great guy. I think you're a fan of Elon.

    2. JR

      I love him.

    3. DT

      He is from a different planet.

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. DT

      He's the greatest guy. That rocket coming in.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. DT

      I tell... I'm, I'm... I told this story once or twice.... so you may have heard it, 'cause these speeches have been good. Did you see the one last night?

    8. JR

      Yeah, I did.

    9. DT

      29,000 people, that was a-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. DT

      And the one the night before was the same thing. We are, we are rocking and rolling. But,

  16. 43:19 – 45:19

    Elon Musk

    1. DT

      but Elon, and I'm talking to this very important guy. I say, "Wait a minute, I'm looking at something." The television's on muted, right? And I see this rocket, it's all brown from the heat, you know-

    2. JR

      Uh-huh.

    3. DT

      ... like, 10,000 degrees pouring down at thousands of miles an hour. And I see this thing, you know, it's like a 20-story building.

    4. JR

      And it catches on-

    5. DT

      And I say to this guy, he's an important guy, "Wait a minute. Uh, let me just put you... Now, hold it. I gotta see this."

    6. JR

      (laughs) .

    7. DT

      And I see this, and, and it's gonna crash. I say, "It's gonna crash into the gantry." They call it a gantry. I said, "Oh man, that's gonna be a disaster," 'cause it's starting to get very close. And then all of a sudden you see the flames and the bottom, vroom, and it boom, and then you see the two arms grab it.

    8. JR

      Crazy.

    9. DT

      And I forgot the guy, I had him on the phone.

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. DT

      I forgot. No, I said, "To, to hell with it." No, I called Elon. I said, "Was that you?" He said, "That was me." And I said, "Who else can do that?" He said, "Nobody. Russia can't do it, the United States, nobody can do it." You know, I set up Space Force, that was me, and that's the first time in 82 years that we opened another branch since the Air Force. And that's gonna be one of our most important things. But think of what Elon does, and he did one other thing that I never heard of it. It's, uh, Starlink. I went down to North Carolina, Georgia, the different places, right down, I followed it right down. And they had no communication. The poles were all knocked down, every... And one of the guys in North Carolina said, "Could you do me a favor? Do you know Elon Musk?" "Yes." He endorsed me. By the way, he gave me the nicest endorsement, too. The, the t- He said, "The country's gonna fail. You should do the same thing, Joe, because you cannot be voting for Kamala."

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. DT

      "Kamala, you're not a Kamala person. I know you. I've watched you. I know him better than he does... You know what? Without speaking to you, I think I know you maybe almost as well as your wife. I have watched you for so many years. You're not a Kamala person. You're a Khabib person, but you're not a Kamala person."

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. DT

      Nobody's gonna know who Khabib is, but-

    16. JR

      Oh, they know who Khabib is.

    17. DT

      ... he was, he was not, he was not

  17. 45:19 – 47:19

    Starlink

    1. DT

      bad, right? That guy.

    2. JR

      Oh, he was phenomenal.

    3. DT

      But that's your kind of person.

    4. JR

      Your weave is getting wide. We're getting-

    5. DT

      No, no.

    6. JR

      ... wide with this weave.

    7. DT

      My w- But isn't it much better?

    8. JR

      I wanna bring it back to tariffs.

    9. DT

      But, but wait one sec, before we finish with tariffs. I just, so they said, they said, "Could you get him? B- we need Starlink." And I call Elon. He got it for them so fast, saved so many lives. And I said, "How was it?" They said, "Better than the wires." You know, they couldn't put them in. They were all, they were all gone. So getting back to-

    10. JR

      I used it recently in Utah-

    11. DT

      It's great.

    12. JR

      ... in the mountains.

    13. DT

      Did you find it good?

    14. JR

      Oh, it's phenomenal. It's the size of a, uh, like a iPad. And you just set it down on the ground and you get high-speed internet. It's incredible.

    15. DT

      We're spending, just to show you, we're spending a trillion dollars to get cables all over the country, right? Up to upstate areas where you have, like, two farms and they're spending millions of dollars to have a ca-

    16. JR

      Well, talk about-

    17. DT

      Elon can do it for nothing.

    18. JR

      ... the $42 billion that was wasted on this internet access program, the United S- They didn't get anybody access to internet.

    19. DT

      That's possible. They haven't hooked up, they haven't hooked up one person yet.

    20. JR

      Not one person.

    21. DT

      That's right.

    22. JR

      They spent $42 billion.

    23. DT

      That's right.

    24. JR

      They could have gotten Starlinks to everybody with that kind of money.

    25. DT

      For almost nothing.

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. DT

      For a monthly charge.

    28. JR

      And it would have been incredible.

    29. DT

      And he, and he wanted to-

    30. JR

      And it's high-speed internet everywhere you wanna go.

  18. 47:19 – 49:19

    Tax Policy

    1. DT

      to rock. It was all g- You know, I had a bad system. We had horrible tax policy. I made it great with a much lower tax rate. So I took it from almost 40% down to 21%. Now I'm bringing it from 21 down to 15, but only if you make your product in the United States, which is gre- People call me, they said, "What a great idea." Nobody ever heard of that before. I don't care if they make the product in Japan, why should I give a... So it's at 21. That... At 21, in the first year, we took in much more revenue than we did at almost 40. Think of that. It inspired... Now we had other things too. We, we were able to get people to bring back their money. You couldn't j- You couldn't bring back your money. If you had money in Europe, like Apple. Apple had bi- many billions of dollars outside, they couldn't bring it, there was no way to bring it back in. Uh, the bureaucracy, the documents, the whole thing. And also, the tax was too high. You know, they wanted like half of it or something. Nobody's gonna do that. So they s- they leave their money in Japan and, and they spend their money there. That was part of what I did. The money came pouring back in. Apple took in hundreds of billions of dollars. They brought it back from overseas, they brought it in-

    2. JR

      So how does the deficit increase because of that?

    3. DT

      Okay. So what happened is this, we were ready to rock and roll, and then we had the COVID thing, and we had to focus on that. And i- if we didn't give some businesses a hand, they would have all be- You would have had a depression like in 1929. But we were ready to start, we were going to... We would have very shortly been paying off debt. You know, we have $35 trillion in debt. And I'll never forget it. We were, it was, talking about, uh, from, you know, the standpoint of being in office. I'm in the Oval Office and I have John McLaughlin and Fabrizio, they're two very good pollsters probably. I don't know, I would say the two best, who knows? But very good pollsters. And we're starting th- think about running for a second term.... and

  19. 49:19 – 53:19

    Economy

    1. DT

      we had the greatest economy in history. Never has there been an economy like this.

    2. JR

      And you attribute that to lowering taxes and tariffs.

    3. DT

      Yeah, a lot of it. Two things. And also, I cut regulations more than anybody else. And if, uh, I asked many of the businessmen, you know, from the big companies, you know, the guys running the big companies, I'd say, "So if you had your choice, you've had it now for a long time, what's more important to you? The tax cuts, you paid less tax, or the regulation cuts?" Every one of them said the regulation cuts meant more. Who would think that, right? 'Cause you don't equate it to dollars, but it actually is more dollars. Um, we had it going and then we just had to focus on something else. But they were sitting there, these two-

    4. JR

      So you think-

    5. DT

      ... these two pollsters were sitting there and they said, "Sir, if George Washington came back and Abraham Lincoln was his VP, as opposed to Waltz." How bad is he, by the way? But, "If Abraham Lincoln was his VP, they couldn't beat you. (laughs) You have a..." And I'll never forget it, the following day, they said, "Something's happening in China, sir. Could we meet?" I said, "What's happening?" "People are dying." And it was all ar- around the Wuhan lab, by the way. There are pictures with little lines, they're body bags, all around the Wuhan lab. And I always said that from the beginning, Joe, was, you know, they tried to say... First they said (laughs) it was France and, you know, they blamed everybody.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. DT

      But then they say it was bats from a cave 2,000 miles away. So we got hit with that, and i- i- despite that, we had the best economy. And when I gave it over, the stock market was higher than it was pre-COVID. I mean, nobody could even believe it. But we saved it, and we were helping businesses. They were dying, you know, they were dying.

    8. JR

      So it's your belief that if you had a second term, given the policies in place, the way the economy was booming, that you would've been able to pay off a lot of the debt, and that was the strategy?

    9. DT

      If we didn't have COVID, we would've been paying off debt and we would've had... And don't forget, by growth, the word growth is actually more important in a way, 'cause you could have the same debt, but if you doubled your growth, all of a sudden you're under levered. But still, we should pay off debt. You know, if you viewed this, um, $35 trillion right now, it's a lot. But if you look at the asset value, if you looked at it purely as an asset value, we have oil underground, we have water, we have mountains, we have the... I mean, the assets are so enormous. But regardless of that, we've got $35 trillion in debt, we should pay it off. And we would have started paying off debt and probably even giving further, given further tax reductions. I wanna get it down to 15%. We're gonna do more business, but when you get hit with the COVID, everything stops, and you have to keep these businesses alive. The businesses were dying. I mean, they were just dying. This whole place, this country was gonna die.

    10. JR

      Are there influences, um, outside of environmental that keep people from wanting to drill for oil and frack and d- and do those sort of things? Outside of the environmental concerns, which are legitimate, of course.

    11. DT

      Yeah, no, I, I-

    12. JR

      But...

    13. DT

      I- it's... Well, they're not-

    14. JR

      Are there other influences that may be over accentuate or over exaggerate these environmental effects? Are, are people being influenced in a way where they're trying to keep us from producing American oil?

    15. DT

      Yeah, yeah.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      So, the environmental is the biggest tool for stopping growth, the biggest tool. The other is regulation. And if you speak to Elon, he said the regulation now to send a rocket up to anywhere, even if you do everything, it's, it's almost, it's becoming impossible. But they use environmental in order to get people not to do anything. And sometimes I say, you know, I look at some of the r- I, I know the environmental stuff better than... 'Cause I had to build buildings in New York. I had to

  20. 53:19 – 55:19

    Environmentalists

    1. DT

      build... I had to do environmental impact studies. And I would see some of these guys that I'd hire for a lot of money, environmentalists that would get you through the process, and they'd be up in Albany, that's the capital of New York, and they're up there trying to make it tougher for guys like me that were builders, because they'd get ba- paid more money. In other words... I, I had one guy, um, highly recommended, all... You know, I was good at getting permits. I was one of the kings of g-... I was always very good. But the environmental stuff was always horrible. They could slow a project down 10 years, 15 years. I had a project in Louisiana built, big LNG plant. It was, uh, for 14 years, it was gonna cost 18 million- $18 billion, one of the biggest. Like the Empire State Building laying down on its side times four. Massive, on the coast, on the Gulf Coast. And they said, "Sir, they're gonna give it up." I said, "That's, they shouldn't give it up. What's the problem?" They can't get their environmental. They had environmental permits that would fill this whole room up to the ceiling, and they said there was one mistake on one little line, they wanted them to do it all over again. I said, "Not gonna happen." And I got them their permit instantly and they built the plant. It's massive.

    2. JR

      So when you're saying that the-

    3. DT

      It's a weapon.

    4. JR

      ... so there's, there's people that are making money by making it difficult.

    5. DT

      Yeah. They make-

    6. JR

      Are you talking about lawyers?

    7. DT

      No, I'm just-

    8. JR

      Because they're dragging out-

    9. DT

      Well, I'm talking about environmental consultants-

    10. JR

      ... the process?

    11. DT

      And lawyers, yeah.

    12. JR

      Environmental consultants-

    13. DT

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... profit off of dragging out the process?

    15. DT

      Absolutely. And they make the process worse.

    16. JR

      And how do they profit? How do they profit off that?

    17. DT

      And I'd probably do the same thing if I were them, to be honest with you.

    18. JR

      As a businessman?

    19. DT

      And I want to be honest with you.

    20. JR

      How do they do that? How do they make it- How do they-

    21. DT

      They go, let's say New York, they go to Albany.

    22. JR

      Okay.

    23. DT

      And they convince people that, uh, if you have a certain type of plant on the ground that's this big, and in theory valueless, that it's a rare plant and you cannot ev- even touch it. You can't go near it, you can't put a building on it, you can't do anything. Or there's a little puddle-... and they call it a lake.

  21. 55:19 – 57:19

    Environmental Impact Studies

    1. DT

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. DT

      And you have to go by the standards of a lake. I said, "No, no, that's a puddle." Oh, you have no idea. Guys are filling the little puddles. You have no idea what they do.

    4. JR

      And so-

    5. DT

      It's hard.

    6. JR

      ... but-

    7. DT

      And they use it as a way to stop you.

    8. JR

      They use it as a way to stop you, and also as the way to generate money. Um, could... I'm-

    9. DT

      It's a weapon.

    10. JR

      ... curious as to how, how are they generating money that way, though?

    11. DT

      Well, they get fees.

    12. JR

      They get fees?

    13. DT

      Massive fees.

    14. JR

      And-

    15. DT

      You pay these guys-

    16. JR

      ... people rely on them as experts because they're the people that they go to when they have-

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... to run these studies in the first place.

    19. DT

      But some of them are just bad guys, and they're trying to make it more and more difficult, because-

    20. JR

      And they have a lot of power.

    21. DT

      Uh, yeah. I, I think they maybe had more. They didn't have as much with me because I would get through them, and I understood it. Look, I've had, I've done so many envi- they call it environmental impact study.

    22. JR

      Uh-huh.

    23. DT

      I did so much to build a building. To build a building in New York is very tough. You gotta be very... So you gotta deal with... Think of it, financing, unions, uh, all the municipal stuff, environmental. Of all of it, to me, the toughest thing was the environmental, because they could stop you cold with the environmental impact study stuff. And, and you deal... You hire a so-called expert. They say, "Sir, he's the one guy. He can get you through the morass." It's a morass. It's horrible. They use it as a weapon. They use it all over the country.

    24. JR

      Right. But there are legitimate concerns about environmental impact-

    25. DT

      There are.

    26. JR

      ... correct?

    27. DT

      There are, but-

    28. JR

      Like, look at about the BP oil spill. There's a-

    29. DT

      Sure.

    30. JR

      ... lot of things that do-

  22. 57:19 – 1:09:05

    The China Curse

    1. DT

      a coal plant a week, okay?

    2. JR

      They build a lot of coal plants.

    3. DT

      But let me just tell you, though.

    4. JR

      We've, we've covered that.

    5. DT

      So w- here we are cleaning and scrubbing everything, and everything's gotta-

    6. JR

      Uh-huh.

    7. DT

      ... the air's gotta be pure. But in 3.8 days, that stuff (laughs) floating over China is right over the top of us.

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. DT

      Same thing with the oceans. They dump their garbage into the Pacific Ocean. If you take a little cork and put it there, in about a week and a half, it'll be in front of Los Angeles. We're picking up their garbage. So nobody ever talks about that. But, in a way, the bigger one is even the air. It's the currents. It's an amazing thing. Been... It's been flowing that way for a million years. A long before, long before-

    10. JR

      We share air with the whole world.

    11. DT

      ... we were there.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. DT

      No. If we're cleaning-

    14. JR

      We get the Sahara dust clouds over here.

    15. DT

      Absolutely.

    16. JR

      We get dust clouds in Austin from the Sahara Desert.

    17. DT

      But we get the China, uh, uh, you know, they call it the China curse. We get the China curse. Th- they're better, and their air is dirty. You know, when I went there, uh, I had a great relationship with President Xi. We got along very well. And they treated me better than anybody's ever been treated. Same thing with Saudi Arabia, c- a number of them. But they laid it out. And I said, "This air is good." Do you know they closed every factory one week before I got there-

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. DT

      ... from within 200 miles?

    20. JR

      That's like what Gavin Newsom did when Xi Jinping came to San Francisco.

    21. DT

      He cleaned it up.

    22. JR

      He cleaned it up. He got rid of all the homeless people. (laughs)

    23. DT

      Isn't that terrible in a way, to think, you know? He cleaned it up, and then it became a pig sty. He is-

    24. JR

      Well, the dumbest thing is he said, "When your friends come by, when you have visitors, you clean up your house." Like how about just keep your fucking house clean?

    25. DT

      Can, can you imagine?

    26. JR

      That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard anybody say ever as a governor as to excuse to why you finally cleaned up your homeless problem.

    27. DT

      And the day he left-

    28. JR

      Right back to it.

    29. DT

      ... it went right back.

    30. JR

      Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:58:49

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